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A previously recorded Matt Slick show. If you want to give me a call, please is a call. If you want to give me a call, please is a call. If you want to give me a call, please is a call.

Please is a call. The churches today, these theologians, they know exactly what you just talked about. They know the origin of what this country is being pushed into. They're being silent about it.

So, you couple that with the COVID environment, which are not getting ties like they used to. I'm curious on how they're going to come out on the other side of this. I have nothing for these pastors no more because they have hung us out to dry. My personal opinion, they have failed families and they have failed men for being politically correct and not speaking the true gospel of the word of God. I just want to get your take on that.

Well, you've heard me say things like this. Not all of them do that, of course, but there are far too many who are mamby-pamby theologians, diaparinians, and they don't want to speak to please God. They want to speak to please men so they can get people in the church. I'm reminded whenever I say that of a local church here in Meridian, I live near Meridian in Idaho, and I was told that the opening day of this church they had a giveaway of a TV to get people in. And instead of the preaching of the word of God and the power of the word of God being the motive to come in, it was, can you get something, a TV?

And I never forgot that because I just consider it to be abominable. And it's this kind of tactic, salesman's tactics, manipulative tactics that are used too many times in the church, and I believe it's because they don't believe in the power of the word of God. Part of me, I want to be a pastor again. I do. I just don't have the ability because I would need people, and bring this up, I would need people who got behind me and did all the busy work. You know, finding places, arranging audio, arranging video while I worked on CARM, prep sermons and things like that, and then preached.

Okay. Well, could you imagine if I started a church and I advertised on the radio, and I said, you won't be getting a TV giveaway, you won't be getting tickets for this or that, what you'll be getting is the word of God preached. And if you like the word of God preached, to please God and not people, then come here and check it out.

But if you want to be fed milquetoast theology, mamby-pamby theology, and you want to have, you know, just have your cake and eat it too, then go somewhere else. Now, that's how I would add. That's how I put an advertisement up. How many people do you think would come? I don't know. No, hardly anybody. Hardly anybody. But I believe that that's what people want today. They want to be comforted. They want to be comforted. Just discomfort, make me feel good. I don't want to pick up the cross because it's got splinters in it.

Yeah. I mean, I've been going to church since I was eight years old and Christmas at eight years old. I mean, the last 20 years, church is such a bore. Sometimes I even forget the message. And I wonder why I felt guilty, why I forget the message, because it wasn't really a message most of the time. It was just a motivational speech with two scriptures to back it up. And you feel good, like you're just clean Christian, no conviction. There's no talking about sin. There's no talking about the power of the word of God. There's no talking about the evil, demonic influences that we face every day.

It's cotton candy. So it's just so sad. But this COVID thing is a blessing in the sky because churches are basically figuring out what to do. Their attendance is dropping.

And I'm curious what 2021 is going to look like as far as the church message. You know, before I answer, I just want to say you need to move here to Idaho and move in next door. I'm just telling you, you just need to do that. I'll help you move in. And I'm from Tacoma, Washington. My mom moved back to Portland, Oregon. I'm from the Northwest. Well, there you go. You got to come back here and go to the Boise area.

I'll help you move in. So what was the church supposed to be doing? The church is supposed to submit to the authorities that are there insofar as they don't contradict scripture. And to have a pandemic necessity of shutting things down in order to prevent disease spread, that's perfectly fine. However, the government should not thwart their efforts to meet.

If they give a standard of six feet, let's just say, hypothetically, six foot distance. And then the churches do that and then get penalized for doing exactly what they were told. Well, then we have a problem and then we need to resist at that point. And so I agree with that. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. You know, OK, pandemic.

But now we're finding out. And I was reading some stats and I started another book last night after I finished the Communist Manifesto. I started reading a book where I could find the name of it, but I'll figure it out on on the statistics and information on covid and the economy from being shut down. You're like 50 pages each of booklets.

And so I'm going through those and I'm going to check out some of the information. Well, it turns out that the viruses get this. I'm talking to the exact numbers, but it's 60 to 70 thousand people die from the flu every year.

Just normal period. And the people who've died from covid is far less than that. And yet they shut the entire economy down for covid. Well, now that they have this information, you'd think that the lawmakers you'd think because they're smart and they're humble and they serve people and they were into facts, not political agenda. You'd think they'd say, well, then let's open the economy back up, just, you know, wear the masks, even though the masks you're finding out don't really help that much. So the CDC is saying it helps, but not as much as they thought it did.

That I wish I had two hours to talk about this subject and go on and on. The origins is I don't think it's legitimate. It came from a lab, so-called lab in China. No one's asking questions of why they were testing this in the first place.

And who let it out. The fact that other countries are wide open and we're not. There's a lot of data that's being manipulated. I think it's a shutdown. I think they're utilizing this politically to consolidate the United States economy and to beta test how we're reacting to it.

So I can have an hour to talk more about this, but I don't want to take up too much time with that color. Well, that's interesting. Interesting theorizing, because a lot of people have been thinking the same thing. Why is it people like sheep are just buying into wearing masks?

They wear them in their own cars. It's time for us to say, in their own homes. And then we have Newsom the nuisance governor there in California with his draconian laws and driving businesses away. Yeah, this is a shutdown. This is a consolidation of the economy. Look at Amazon stock, Apple stock, these multinational companies. They're booming. The mom and the pops are being driven out of business.

This is by the bar. Yeah, a lot of it is. That's true. So we got to deal with that.

We got to figure it out, you know? Anyway. All right, man. Always good talking with you. I'm glad. Thanks a lot, man. All right. So, folks, that's interesting conversation. By the way, the little books I'm reading on this documentation, unreported truths about COVID-19 and lockdowns. You get them on Amazon.

They're not very expensive. And unreported truths about COVID-19 and lockdown. So I'm checking. I want to know what's going on. I want to know if we're being manipulated. I want to know. Maybe we are. Maybe we're not. I don't know. Is it true? Since I don't trust the media.

I don't trust most politicians. So what's going on? You know? So the Bible does talk about an apostasy and the Bible does talk about the arrival of the Antichrist.

So what has to be in place for those things to occur? Well, you know, we can talk about that kind of stuff. Anyway, if you want to give me a call.

Three open lines. 877-207-2276. Carl from Florida. Welcome. You are on the air. Hello. Hello. You're on the air. Hey, Matt. What's going on? How you doing? I'm doing OK, man. Just doing radio. So what do you got? Yeah.

Thank you very much. So my question is pretty, pretty simple, General. So I was hanging out with a couple of friends up in the movies and stuff. And we went to like a bar and stuff and drinks. And then there was females and all that. And ever since then, I've been battling in my mind where it just starts. And just the substance, you know, the devil, you know, I guess try to weld me back into that lifestyle.

I know I said never put myself in that situation, but because of that, it's been balanced. And, you know, it's just been a mind thing, you know? Yeah. Let me ask, are you married?

No, no. OK. You go to church? Yeah.

OK. So since you're, you know, you get battles and I have battles. We all have battles for Christians. What we do is train our minds. And there's a couple of ways to do this. One is to memorize scripture, literally memorize scripture. And Colossians three is a place in the Bible that is worth studying and studying and reading and reading. Like every night, read the first 17 verses because 18 and on talks about marriage. But read the first 17 verses and you'll find out there's stuff in there.

And what happens is that when you start having thoughts, you'll start thinking of these things instead. Now, that's one thing that we can talk about. We will a little bit more after the break. OK, we've got a break coming up. So hold on.

Hey, folks, if you want to hold on. We'll be right back after these messages. Give me a call. We have three open lines. 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. We have three open lines. If you want to give me a call.

877-207-2276. Carl, are you still there? Yes, I'm still there. OK, now you do go to church, right? Yes. So you believe the Bible is true? Correct, yes. OK, so what I want you to do is read Colossians 3 1-16 or 1-17.

And just study it. Colossians 3. Yeah, verse 16 and 17. 1 through 16 and 17, just Colossians chapter 3. And up to about, yeah, at verse 18 it starts talking about wives and husbands. So Colossians 3 1-17. I like to refer to this section of scripture as my least favorite place in the Bible. And the reason I say that, and I say it jokingly, is because it exposes my own sin to me. It really speaks to my heart.

It reaches in. And these words that are here in this pericope of scripture often reflect in my mind and heart during different times what I'm to do, what I'm not to do. Living according to them is not always easy. So what we do is we have a goal that we set and then we aim towards that goal. So if you were in a boat out on the ocean and miles ahead is a little place of land you want to get to and you're heading towards it, you constantly have to make corrections on your direction because there are always things that are working to blow you off course. You always have to be aware and you've got to move forward and keep correcting.

It's the same kind of a thing here. We want to head towards the person of Jesus. And so many things are going to work against us, so we have to constantly make corrections. The way to do that is to be in the Word of God. You can also do something in your mind to train your mind literally. When something happens or you think something you shouldn't think, you have a sentence you say or something that's appropriate or a scripture that you quote. And you do this. You literally think of something bad and then you quote the scripture.

You go through and you practice. You think of this not too deeply or anything bad, but you think of something that you shouldn't be doing, blah, blah, blah. And then you go right to scripture and you focus on that word. What happens is that you train your mind literally to react by referring to God's word.

And this is the kind of thing that we want to do. I don't want you to entertain evil in your mind, but you can approach the topic in your mind and say scripture instead, this instead, and then you associate that and it works. Okay. And you pray too. And you find people that you can talk to about it.

And you continue the struggle and you stay on course and you constantly make corrections as you approach your goal. That's what you have to do. That's just what you have to do. Right. Okay, man.

Good enough? Yes, yes. All right. So what are you going to study then?

Colossians chapter 3, verses 1 through 17. Very good. That's right. Okay. All right. Okay. God bless. Thank you. Okay. Hey, folks, we have four open lines if you want to give me a call. I'd like you to give me a call.

We can blab. I've got a question about theology. You've got a question about the Bible. You've got a question about personal issues. You've got a question about stuff.

All you've got to do is dial 877-207-2276. Let's get to Kevin from Washington, D.C. Hey, Kevin, welcome. You're on the air.

Are you there? Oops. Maybe if I hit the button.

It always helps if I run the board right. Hello, hello, hello, hello. Sorry about that. It was my fault. Hey, are you listening to me on the radio out there or just online?

I was listening on YouTube. Okay. All right. That's all right. That's all right.

No problem. So you got a question? I don't know. Yes, I do. You were talking to a gentleman a little bit earlier about the COVID stuff. And I was like wondering. So you know anybody who's had the virus?

No. For a while, like maybe too skeptical about it. And I was thinking they were trying to control me and stuff a week ago.

I found out my friend who was 30 years old and healthy, he died from it. Oh, man. Like somebody I know. So I was like, that's crazy. And I work for the DOD, the Department of Defense.

And my wife works for the federal government. And they are being really, really serious about it because they don't want people to die. They genuinely think. But not as many people are dying as I think they're saying. But they're generally serious about like not wanting people to die and continue to spread. And I'm wondering how you see the government interacting with us wearing face masks.

I don't have a problem with wearing face masks. People want to do it, that's fine. The problem I have is when they start saying churches can't meet. And then they allow rioters to riot and politicians to go to hair salons and all the hypocrisy.

And they penalize Christians. That's a concern. Another concern I have is, is it a test to see how many people can be controlled? That's something I'm curious about because I'm very biblically minded and I do know the antichrist and the spirit of antichrist kind of a thing will control people. So I'm always wary about that, particularly since I've done so many decades of work dealing with people in cults that I see how mind control works. And so I'm always a little bit, okay, what's going on here? Is this manipulation?

Is this not? Okay. So do masks work? They reduce infection rates. But I've discovered that basically the masks that they're wearing is really not helping very much at all. And that six feet distance things really isn't helping that much at all. Does it help some?

Yes. Now if you are in, for example, a military institution where it's critical in the infrastructure that it be there, heck, wear really good masks. You don't want that stuff to spread around because, heck, you should even wear, you have cults. They should just adopt it the whole time.

Have specially designed face masks for each person and they go around and wash your hands all this time. I don't see any problem with that either because it makes sense in that context. But does it make sense in a church where you say you've got to have chairs eight feet apart and you can't have more than ten people in a humongous building. Otherwise, you're violated.

That's ridiculous. So these are the things that... Yes. What you were just saying about being like I can start wondering, they're trying to control people, testing to see if they can control people and stuff. Like that is the thing because you don't know. Even though my friend passed away, I'm still like, are they using this as a means to figure out how people can be controlled, like social manipulation and stuff like that? And I think it is generally. And then the politicians use it in a certain way. And then the double standard when they do the riots and the protests. You know, that's legal, you can do that.

But then not going to church, that's ridiculous. There's an inconsistency and an imbalance there. And there's a reason for it. Hold on, we'll be right back after these messages, folks. We have three open lines. 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Whoa, we lost him. That's all right. Whoop, there we go. Yes, I was reading through during the break. And I believe in the dissemination of information.

I write and communicate. And if you guys are interested out there in some of the books that I'm looking at, Unreported Truths About COVID-19 and Lockdowns. They're really small, full of documentation. And I'm reading the first one. There's part one and part two. They're not more than, I think, 100 pages or something like that. And let's see, six or 21. Yeah, it's just, yeah, 21 pages. So it's not very big.

Each one is like that big. So, you know, I'm just checking things out. And we always have to be wary. We always have to be wary.

At this point, I would say read the preamble and the Decoration of Independence. Oh, boy. Hey, folks, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's maybe talk about some theology and stuff.

Let's get to Jeremy from Raleigh, North Carolina. Welcome. You're on the air.

Hey, Matt. Nice talking to you. I want to thank you for all the stuff that you put on karm.org, and I've utilized it. My question is, how would you talk with Jehovah's Witness about the deity of Christ? I read your stuff that you've had on karm.org, and I really enjoyed the Greek that you had on John 1-1 and went into in-depth explanation for that. So thank you for posting that.

Sure. Well, did you see my stuff on Christophanies in the Old Testament, the appearances of Christ? I did, but the problem that I have with this particular person is even if I use the Christophanies like the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament, even though that particular angel actually is Yahweh and speaks as if he is Yahweh, he is still insisting that it's an angel and not Yahweh himself. Or if there's other Christophanies that I utilize in the Old Testament, it's never actually God.

It's just some type of mode or method that's being used. Well, what I'll do, because I know that's the answer, and I can tell you've talked to them. Go to Exodus 6, verses 2 and 3, and you can actually start at verse 1. Read through the Bible, and it says, this is verse 1, Then the Lord said to Moses, this is Yahweh. So Yahweh, or in their version, Jehovah said to Moses, Now you shall see what I will do to Pharaoh, for under compulsion he will let them go, and under compulsion he will drive them out of his land. God spoke further to Moses and said to him, I am Jehovah.

Now I'm going to ask him, I ask the JTops, who's talking? They say it's an angel of the Lord, I'm going to say, let's go over it again. Because it says, Jehovah said, is it Jehovah?

They might come back, because they might know where you're going. They might say, well, it's an angel of the Lord that speaks in his name. So an angel of the Lord would say, I am Jehovah?

That would be a lie, wouldn't it? You see, you got him right there. So the text says God spoke to Moses. So who's speaking to Moses? You may not ever get past this, but this is the thing.

This is what I'll do with them. I'll say, well, Exodus 6, 2 and 3, it says, God spoke further to Moses, who was speaking to him. I'll say, Exodus 6, 2 and 3 says, I will say that reference so many times to them that they walk away having it memorized.

They'll go look at it, they're going to have to. God spoke further to Moses, who was speaking? God, great, God was speaking. And God said, I am Jehovah.

Can an angel do that? Does a text say an angel spoke or does it say God spoke? Does it say an angel said, I am Jehovah? Because if it says, I am Jehovah, then he's lying, isn't he?

Okay, so there's no out of this, all right? It says, then I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty, but my name, Yahweh, or Jehovah, did not make myself known to them. And what that means is that he didn't make himself known by his name until the time of Moses, because Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were before Moses. All right, so I ask them, who appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty?

Who appeared? And if they don't admit that the text says what it says, I go back over it again, over it again, over it again. And I'll say, well, Exodus 6, 2 and 3 says. And even if the conversation falls apart and they just leave, they've heard what it says, and it doesn't fit in their theology, but I've said it so many times, it's in their heads, okay? Right. And so then what I'll do is I'll say, okay, so it was God Almighty who was being seen, right?

Good. Then we go to, and if they want to go to John 1-18, no man has seen God at any time. The only begotten son and the bosom of the Father, he's explained them. I'll say, yeah, sure. Well, then how do you explain it? I'll say, I have an answer.

Do you? Just so you know, I've done a study on the word God. After verse 14 in the Gospel of John, it's always a reference to the Father. That's how it works.

I've got an article somewhere on Carm on it. And so no one has seen God at any time. Who are they speaking about?

God Almighty, right? But the Bible says they saw God Almighty. So who are they seeing who's God Almighty? But I'll say for clarification, Jesus says in John 6, 46, not that anyone has seen the Father. And I'll ask the JW, do you agree that no one has seen the Father?

Yes. I agree with you, no one's seen the Father. They were seeing God Almighty in the Old Testament, but it wasn't God the Father. Who's God Almighty who's not God the Father? Uh-huh.

Yeah, I have never thought about it from that perspective. It works. Okay, and so that's what I'll do.

And I recommend you do the same kind of a thing. All right? Now, this is what they're going to say. I appreciate it, man.

Thank you again. Now, here's something else, okay? Here's something else.

Now, there's all kinds of little things you can say. You can go to Revelation 1, 7 through 8. That's really useful. You can go to Colossians 1, 15 through 17 and combine it with Isaiah 44, 24. But you can also do this because when you get talking about Almighty God, what they're going to want to do is say Jesus is the mighty God and God the Father is the Almighty God. That's one of the JW things that they say.

Now, I haven't checked lately to see they changed it. They changed their doctrines periodically. So here's a verse that's important to know. Isaiah 10, 21. Isaiah 10, 21. Remember, the JW's will say that God Almighty is the Father and the mighty God, the mighty God is Jesus. That's what they're going to say.

I don't know if you know that, but that's what they say. So here's Isaiah 10, 20 and 21. Now, in that day, the remnant of Israel and those of the house of Jacob who have escaped will never again rely on the one who struck them, but they will truly rely on Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel. A remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob to the mighty God.

Wait a minute. Jehovah is called the mighty God? You call Jesus the mighty God? Are you calling Jesus Jehovah?

There's all kinds of stuff like this. Go ahead. The problem that I run into is my typical approach is I try to use context and whenever we're reading the passage I try to expose what the context is. It seems to be more cherry-picking and nice to Jesus than it's to Jesus and that's a consistent problem.

You're absolutely right. Context is always something you need to examine. But what I'll do is I'll bring up a verse and I'll say, do you want to look at the context? Or if they don't want to look at the context, that's fine. I don't want to go on. I made my point. I have no problem with context. But you're going to find out that and you should go to a Jehovah's Witness Kingdom Hall and if you have somebody that's witnessing to you, you should go.

I say, hey, I want to go to your church. I'm not going to go there to argue. I'm not going to make a scene.

I'm not going to do anything. I just want to go and see. Are you with me? I heard a weird noise in my head.

No, it was the electronics or whatever. So just go, and I've done this many times. I'm not going to make a scene. I'm not going to ask any questions.

I'm just going to go. And get as much literature as you can reasonably get from them. The reason I recommend you go is to hear how they're brainwashed, to see how they're brainwashed.

And I haven't been for 20 years, but I used to go when I was younger. And they would have somebody get up and open the Watchtower or the Wake Magazine, take a Bible, and read through the Watchtower. And they'll say things like, they'll go to the text, John 14, 28. Jesus says, the Father is greater than I. Well, brethren, let's turn to John 14, 28. The Father is greater than I. And see that's what he says.

Okay, therefore, we know that if he is God, as the heretical Trinitarians say, then why would the Father be greater than he if they're the Trinity and they're all equal? So we can see that Jesus is not God, and they go the next thing. This is the kind of thing that they do.

They don't allow any questions from people like me. They say, well, wait a minute. When you're married, man's greater than authority than his wife. It doesn't mean they're different. Jesus was made for a little while over in the angels, Hebrews 2-9, and made under the law, Galatians 4-4. So he's in a lesser position under the law. As a man, he had to obey the law, and so he would say that the Father is greater than him.

It doesn't mean that he's not God. You see? There's stuff like that.

I've also took the approach of asking for fruit from him. I'll tell you what. We've got a break. Hold on. We've got a break. Keith, can you put him on hold because my window crashed?

Okay. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back, everybody. Last segment of the show. Jeremy, are you still there? Yeah, I'm still here. Okay. So you were saying something, and then I had to reboot my window.

It took me 10 seconds, and we had a break. So where do we leave off? I guess the next question that I had is, I know that they communicate, and I guess my confusion comes in, is I know that they communicate that they believe that Jesus is Michael the Archangel. But I don't really see how they can transition from the text, from saying Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, and meaning Michael, Michael, Michael. For example, if I go to Daniel 7 and I say this is the Son of Man, it's clearly stating that it's not an angel that's in the presence of God, that it's actually a man who is like God.

But I guess that's where my problem, and the person that I'm talking with is a family member, so I get to talk to them quite often and understand their perspective. Right. But I'm not understanding how they can have such a transition. When I say Jesus is God, I don't understand it, and I don't understand the consistency of it, and that is the flaw that I'm trying to point out, is there's no consistency here. You're right. Now, you're talking about consistency. I'm talking about continuity here, but they're brainwashed. This is why you've got to go to the Kingdom Hall.

You've got to see what you're up against. They're brainwashed. They're brainwashed. They're brainwashed. You've got to see, even if it was for one week, you said, I'm going to go to all the meetings you go to, and you say, I'm not going to say anything. I'm not going to cause any problems.

I just want to see what you're doing. If they say, yes, go to all the meetings for one week, you will then understand how they get brainwashed. You've got to deal with the brainwashing. This is why earlier when I said Exodus 6, 2 and 3, Exodus 6, 2 and 3, Exodus 6, 2 and 3, because you have to fight against brainwashing, literally.

As far as these scriptures, they have their reasons, their convoluted false logic reasons, and you have to break through that. You have to sit down with them and go through it in the scriptures. But what they're going to do is they're going to say, no, it would say this. They have all these verses that they've been trained in, and they have these little booklets, and these booklets will tell them, go to this page and read this verse.

The booklets do the thinking for them. This is what you're up against. But even if I read their text from their Bible, the New World Translation in Hebrews 1 and 3, Jesus is the reflection of God's glory, that representation of his very being. So it's in their text that it's saying that Jesus is God. Well, they'll just say he represents him. They'll say he represents God, he isn't God. That's what they'll say. And then they'll go to John 17, 3. And I combat that by saying, yeah, he's his representative, but in the text it says he's the exact representation, not just a representative. Well, you see, this is why it takes, with Jehovah's Witnesses, sorry, but it takes more training and memorization of scriptures and arguments in order to answer them.

It used to be when I first moved here to Idaho, Jehovah's Witnesses would come to my door regularly. They haven't been here for years because they have me marked off because they know I can answer questions or ask questions and answer their questions, and they don't like it. So this is just what you've got to do. You've got to learn this stuff. That's why I wrote these articles on Karm.

They go through. Now, I'm going to give you one more thing to go with here that you really need to study, and it has to do with the phrase, call upon the name of the Lord. Have you studied this, read that article on Karm? Yes, I did. Okay. Now, for those who don't know what it is, let me repeat it.

It's extremely powerful. It has really messed up a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses. The phrase to call upon the name of Jehovah in the Old Testament means prayer, adoration, worship to Jehovah alone. That's what it means, and you get them to admit that. Zechariah 13, 9, Psalm 116, 4 talks about these phrases, and I'll tell them it's always and only of Jehovah, right?

And they'll say yes. Then we talk about the Septuagint, the translation by the Jews about 200 B.C., where they translated the Old Testament into Greek. They took that phrase, call upon the name of Jehovah, and they put it in the Greek, call upon the name of the Lord. In Greek, hakurios, the Lord, ha, the, kurios, Lord. They call upon the name of the Lord.

That's what they translated it as. Then you go to 1 Corinthians 1, 2, where it says, to the church of God, which is at Corinth, those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call in the name of the Lord Jesus. What I'll ask them is, why would Paul, the apostle, use a phrase applied only to Jehovah in adoration and worship and apply the phrase to Jesus? They can't answer that one.

So that's a very powerful thing to go with. What they'll do then is say, well, the call, the issue, or the name, is it? No, it's the phrase. Have you read that article? You know it's a lengthy article. I really go in quite in depth on it and do a lot of analysis.

But it's really a problem for them. So that's something I would focus on as well. I appreciate everything that you've done. One last question that I have, and then I'll get off the phone.

Sure. They seem to be really hung up on the Trinity. But whenever I drive it back to Jesus and the deity of Jesus, the conversation automatically goes back to the Trinity. And the Holy Spirit, who is the Holy Spirit?

Why ain't he got a name and all this other stuff? The Holy Spirit's job is to witness of Jesus. You can go to John 14, 26, John 15, 26. He bears witness of truth. He bears witness of Christ. That's it. And in John 13, 4, I believe it's 13, 4, is it?

Or 13, 2, he speaks. The Holy Spirit speaks and has a will. You can go in and you can see the references for that. What I'll do is I'll say, do you understand how the Trinity's arrived at? Because they'll say the Trinity's false.

The Trinity is not arrived at by looking at any one scripture. It's arrived at by looking at the whole Bible. It's systematically arrived at.

I'll tell them. It's arrived at by a system of thought, a system of logic, of looking at various things. So what is that system that the Trinitarians use to arrive at the Trinity? They won't know what to say about that because they've not been asked that question.

And I'll tell them, you don't know the system. Again, it's not by looking at a verse like Matthew 28, 18, baptized in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit. That doesn't prove the Trinity. It supports it just like 2 Corinthians 13, 14 does. I'll say, how has the doctrine of the Trinity arrived at?

What's the system? And I keep hammering this because I'll say, if you don't know that approach and that system, you can't tell us if the system's right or wrong by which the Trinity's arrived at. Therefore, you don't know if it's true or false.

I've got so many things I can say to them in so many different ways, but there you go. The explanation I got, and I'm going to hang up the phone, is that you said they arrived at the Trinity by the Encyclopaedia Britannica saying that 400 years after Christ was a taken thing. Absolutely wrong. I appreciate your time. Absolutely wrong. We don't go to the Britannica, we go to the Scriptures, and I just put them right back to the Word.

You tell me how it's arrived at in Scripture, and if you don't, I can show you. For practice on that, just go to the CARM site, look up the Trinity chart. Okay? That'll help you.

All right, buddy? Thank you. Bye. You're welcome, man.

God bless. Let's get to Alonso from Costa Rica. ¿Cómo estás hombre? ¿Sas listo? Hey, sui listo, man. How are you? I'm doing fine, man.

What do you got, buddy? Yeah, so I have a context to give you, and then the question. So I've been an elder in my local church for more than six years now, and I'm convinced by Scripture that women are not to be appointed as pastors, and also that it is inappropriate that they teach on Sunday mornings.

Good. From the pulpit, yes. My church is a constitution... Yeah, sorry, go ahead. Yeah, from the pulpit, you mean, but go ahead, yes.

Exactly, exactly. I'm from the pulpit. So my church constitution prohibits female pastorship, but my fellow elders are okay with women teaching from the pulpit. So I'm in a difficult position since I'm quite alone in my conviction that I believe it is a proper one from Scripture, and also the senior pastor has read some theologians that support female teaching, and although he is not convinced that they should be pastors yet, I think it's a matter of time if he remains consistent.

So the rest of the elders are okay with women teaching, and I believe that if it is up to them, they would allow female elders also. So in my position, what would you advise me to do? Should I fight?

Should I step aside? I don't know. I'm going to conundrum here. Quito hablar con los, si puede mos haceras. I want to talk to them. If we could do that, I'd like to talk to them online, on Facebook or whatever it is. If they'd be willing to have a discussion with me, I can answer all their objections.

I can point to Scripture very politely. I don't know if they speak English or not. My Spanish is, you know, it's, you know, así, así.

But there's no así ficiente para perdicar o enseñar en español todamente. So maybe we could, you know, you could be there. We could do this whole thing, but I'd love to do that. Now, what are you going to do? Well, it's between you and God. Me, I'm going to, in my situation, that's just me.

I'm a little hard-headed. I'm going to say, well, this is what the Bible says. It says that the elder must be anermios guinancas, a man of one woman. Please tell me how a woman can feel that.

How does a woman do that job? And, well, you see, blah, blah, blah. It's a phrase that means, no, it says they must be a man of one woman. Paul doesn't even allow them to teach or have authority over men in the church because Adam was first created. How do you explain these things? If they want to say, well, let's go to these egalitarians.

They're called egalitarianism. They believe that women and men are equal in that calling in the church to say, well, what does the Bible say? And that's what you need to do. Constantly go back to the Word of God.

Memorize a few scriptures. 1 Timothy 12 and 13, 1 Timothy 3.15, Paul says he's giving instruction on how to behave in the household of God. What he talks about is when he says, allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man but remain silent for Adam was first created. And I know their objections. It's a particular woman or it's a woman over this.

I get all those responded to on the website. But you also got to go Titus 1, 5-7 and 1 Timothy 3, 2 through roughly 6. And it talks in there about the qualifications of the elder.

And he must be anermeus gunaikos, a man of one woman. And this is what it says. I don't have these sub objections, little objections, and I can answer those. But this is what you got to do. What does the Word of God say? And just ask them, well, what does the Word of God say? What does the Word of God say? And then if they refuse me, I'm the kind of guy who'd say the judgment of God's coming upon you. You refuse the Word of God. I can no longer serve here with you. And I must go to the congregation now and let them know of your false teaching. That's what I would do. Okay.

So just a follow up on that. What would you say also to that particular position that they may have, which is, okay, I might agree with you with the fact that they cannot hold to the office of an elder, but hey, what about teaching? They can teach. So we would allow them to teach from the pulpit.

So what would you say about this particular position that I believe is inconsistent, but what would you say about that? 1 Timothy 2, 12 and 13. I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but remain silent. The word silent in Greek is hasoukia.

It doesn't mean complete silence like sago does in the Greek. Paul says no to that. You get a woman up in the pulpit preaching the Word of God with authority. She is now taking the position that does not belong to her. Period. In my mind, I have a situation where I am allowed to ask every single one of them separately, and I would ask them, what would you do?

Would you allow a woman to teach and exercise authority over a man? And I believe they're going to say yes. They have to say yes.

I can say, how is that not a direct contradiction to the text? Just to see how they react. Right. Well, I'll tell you what. I want to talk to them.

We're out of time. You can email me, info at karm.org. Let's see if we can get an online meeting going. You know, in love.

I would love to do that. Okay. We are out of here. May the Lord bless you all. By His grace, we're back on here tomorrow. We'll talk to you then. Okay. See you. See you.