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Theology Thursday: Artificial Intelligence

The Steve Noble Show / Steve Noble
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May 28, 2020 10:12 am

Theology Thursday: Artificial Intelligence

The Steve Noble Show / Steve Noble

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May 28, 2020 10:12 am

Theology Thursday: Artificial Intelligence

Today we are joined by Eddie Wu, Ph.D. Candidate SEBTS for the discussion of Artificial Intelligence.  We break down what is Artificial Intelligence and what kinds we have already additionally we discuss the contributions of its development and how far will we go.  


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Wake up everyone is time for this noble show where biblical Christianity meets the everyday issues of life in your home, at work, and even in politics.

Steve is an ordinary man who believes in an extraordinary God and on a show, there's plenty of grace and lots of true no sacred down 634 true 866-34-TRUTH or checking out online noble now here's your house noble, but I never really thought about this on the air.

We need to be talking about word behind the curve on it and this is not so much sneaking up on us in many ways and 30 here, but we now have to come to play catch up not only with archaeology but with our ethics and how do we deal with this particular subject, but I want to start theology Thursday with a quote.

This is from a website called future of okay quote everything we love about civilization is a product of intelligence so amplifying our human intelligence with artificial intelligence has the potential of helping civilization flourish like never before as long as we managed to keep the technology beneficial. So the question at hand is, and if you got an iPhone pretty much any kind of advanced device that's a computer artificial intelligence. What's the deal with that.

It's becoming the norm. It's even 20 years ago.

This sounded like a movie but today artificial intelligence is real and it's growing and it's becoming an integral part of our society not only here in America but around the world. So as Christians, people of the book how we approach this. There's obviously some good things about it. I think there's some very scary things about it and like many other times.

Our technology is advancing faster than our theological understanding and then all the ethical implications of artificial intelligence, which also like you can start looking into things like a deep, fake things and and you can start using artificial intelligence you probably seen a video to you or to where it looks like I've seen on Mark Zuckerberg anything. All these crazy things in it like that's Mark Zuckerberg that's his voice is always crazy things he saying in the whole thing was a fake and ardent artificial intelligence was being used to study Mark Zuckerberg's face and his talk is cadence everything and then re-creating it in the computers learning that as it goes pretty crazy thing sounds like total recall or some Arnold Schwarzenegger movie but it's real is happening. What we do and Eddie will is a PhD candidate here at Southeastern Baptist theological seminary, and that this is a topic that he's pursuing his PhD in genetics and culture and this is something that he noticed I noticed that were not talking about much organ unpack that today on the show Eddie how are you thanks for coming in today Ashley thank you Steve Pritchett is going to be here so I you have an interesting journey of how you got here.

Obviously Eddie will doesn't sound like you were born in Louisiana but you were so that's a sure little about your background in terms of America and coming to faith and kinda how you ended up at the seminary and then will dive into artificial intelligence.

Yeah, absolutely. So I was born in Louisiana, where she moved there. My parents are from Taiwan and so they came over as graduate students. My dad got his masters and eventually his PhD in nuclear engineering and my mom got her masters as well and they I was born in Missouri of all places, so even more remote for someone like like me to be born to you. I wouldn't say their long eventually moved around and settled in Louisiana which is where I call home and are there. That's where I begin to hear of God was in law that was through youth ministry through a church sows a shuttle to El Dorado Baptist Church were friends at school and stuff was that kind of interacting with people or how yeah actually it wasn't even my friends is one of my sister's friends who had invited us to go to a dodgeball night at her church and had a great time had a blast. Love the guys they are really just something different about who they were and not just get me going back and so for me and so my youth group at Northway church and can attest to the site. I love you I love working with them because I've seen the effect of a cure.

It's all youth group what that has for me and so eventually I became a Christian except the Lord around my junior year in high school and just never look back. What was that like for your parents.

We are talking about this before he went on the air because they were like antagonistic hard-core atheists are more like just disinterested just wasn't a thing yeah that's right my parents came from Taiwan in they didn't come from a family of faith. Faith wasn't really a thing for them. I was safe. We had sort of family, religion may be closer to Taoism on something along those lines, but even that wasn't regularly practice was in the thing that we we did on a regular basis. Offer them religion was made more of a pragmatic thing will how is it helpful review and even for us as a family and so they weren't initially shocked by my coming to faith mean we live in Louisiana lost a church and as you know it is first on the road kind of an American. They do exactly and so you they were maybe thinking help you become a better person maybe a bit more morally better in some ways and then you want LSU hearing that by no problem there.

Math and engineering, it makes sense in your parents about brilliant obviously but then also you decide you're going to go to seminary and that's where probably the atmosphere changed right so I went to LSU Tigers and graduate they graduated with an electrical engineering degree from there. I was always feeling pretty gifted in science and math is always with my strong suit in school and engineering just to make sense, and I loved teaching with technology, so what to engineering and I just followed from that and then coming out of that will make money, that by means exactly. Good American plan.

There good capitalistic plan no matter where you live. That's right. And so a lot of it was just a seem to make sense right graduate with an engineering degree.

Have a good future for yourself. But I felt the Lord calling me in a different direction and lot. It was kind of pushing me towards seminary and I think once I made a decision to go to seminary. That really started to unravel our relationship a little bit, as parent and child because they had aspirations and future plans for me that they thought were wise and smart and yet I was using something that didn't make sense. Why would you give up all the engineering yet on or something engineering a rather un-American decision exactly $0.20. That's right. And so you got to seminary and at first you guys you and your wife because you married have two children thinking okay we maybe will be missionaries and that turns and apologetics and culture, which is what you're working on your PhD which is going to get us into artificial intelligence today but wait, what you think happened there to get a movie away from us will be missionaries to I love to teach at the collegiate level apologetics so when I was at LSU.

We worked a lot or I worked a lot with international students. I mean with my background. I really had a heart for East Asian students who came over and did know the gospel left for me was was big that I can relate to who they are in their upbringing and so MOI was also a journeyman for two years as well, and East Asia and so was seeking to seminary our thought was well let's go overseas. We heard Southeastern is a very initially minded seminary and we want to be a part of that and so I came in initially to do my M.Div. and missiology and then she came in to do her as an MAI S and eventually the Lord for a turn that towards apologetics and culture.

John Lewis is going to drive us right into our conversation about artificial intelligence is here. What we do with it what about the theology of it out. We look at it biblically, but also how do we look at it ethically and by the way, your ethics will how to worldview.

Talk about that, but Eddie will PhD candidate here at Southeast Steve Noble theology Thursday with our friends at Southeast about theological seminary. So were talking to Eddie will will wonder these days and couple years years to be Dr. Eddie was working on his PhD in apologetics and culture and were going to spend the rest of the show, talking about something we've never really talked about at any length for any depth here on the show and you just don't hear about it much anywhere. Actually, the only big time broadcaster. I hear talking about AI on a regular basis is Glenn Beck.

I think he handles it well he handles both sides can be an awesome thing, but can also be a terrifying thing and so on. Just reading from this article in the work can unpack this with Eddie in terms of how we apply a theological biblical worldview that what about the ethical implications because again, like most things, there's an upside to this definitely a downside.

So this is just kind of a general explanation of what is artificial intelligence from Siri that self driving cars artificial intelligence or AI's progress is progressing rapidly while science fiction often portrays AI as robots with humanlike characteristics AI can encompass anything from Google search algorithms. IBM's Watson's autonomous weapons AI today is properly known as narrow AR week air I AI that is designed to perform a narrow task like facial recognition or Internet searches are driving the car. However, a long-term goal of many researchers is to create general AI or strong AI when narrowly my outperform humans that whatever is a specific task, like playing chess or solving equations AGI strong AI what outperform humans at nearly every cognitive task is what it starts.

Eddie sounded a little scary to me so I don't so how did AI could you suggest this topic and I praise the Lord. Thank you how to get on your radar screen yeah AI's always been sort of all my radar as it looks engineering majors on whose work with computers. I even taught programming local high school for a while when things are become a talked about was AI and sort of what it means to be artificial intelligence and will easier your reporting out is your right not everything is this you autonomous robot is gonna kill us all like Terminator with matrix islets activity is not really what were talking about we talk about AI, but that's what we always think about we think about AI and so for me when I think about AI.

It's not just those robots in the future. It's your computer, your cell phone. The apps on your phone, maybe even your blender blender home has some sort of computer circuitry. There would be considered artificial intelligence is doing a specific task at the makers intended for to do right.

I would say I'm I got interested in this topic, primarily from a Christian standpoint when I realized most Christians have no idea what were talking about and were just sort of depending on the world to inform us on the subject.

I think that that's a poor way for Christians to go about this if were surrounded by technology particular computer technology we use it on a daily basis. Why don't we have a little bit better understanding of what it is that were using. After all, were trying to make laws were trying to interpret teach our kids how to use these devices in these robots. If you want, but I quotation marks, but yet we don't understand what is that were talking about and so was as if were lying on the rest of the world a more secular world to give us our implications rather than building it from our critical review of a kindness. They kinda set the standards they set the right to guide the conversation we come along afterwards and say okay one Alex think through this and see what what our position should be based on the goal ethic and then and but this is progressing so rapidly and obviously these also basis is all over and a Facebook is all over it. They have entire divisions that are working on AI.

I mean Facebook and in Google now are doing things with what AI they have all kinds of psychotherapists on staff now studying human psychology in order to be predictive say okay let's look at how people act. This was Westworld season right threes doing this where let let's look at people's history. Let's look at the genetics and then you could begin to come to predict whether to be doing your computers learning all along. And then, is the application of that intelligence working skills scary. That's right, that's right.

So how do we kinda start to approach this from a biblical perspective or theological perspective because obviously anything that we come up with because we have remarkable abilities because were made in God's image. So part of it. We should sets. I always want to start these conversations going okay. What's the good that we can see yourself so from your perspective, what are some good things about yeah I would say if you look at it out.

We see an increase in efficiency. I mean we are living in a world where things are more efficient than ever before. Things I would've taken months or even years to to complete.

We think about complex mathematical equations were trying to calculate certain things before even with some AI would have been months or so process the amount of information needed yet today we can do that may be in a day light less than a day.

Even the one the famous dataset or images is always going around is your phone has or 500 times the processing power of the Apollo 13 mission holidays. I got tired of a guy reading I used you got way more power and a joy I felt so when these always tell my students whenever I said teach was look at your phone and think about all the different apps on electric camera, your flashlight, your text messages and even just the phone itself and we think all those used to be separate objects and we put them all into one object. Now so efficient and yet we know everything we do just as a part of our guys is how we live.

That's right so efficiency that's a good one. Well, flutter positives and connectivity. So for example my family majority. My family still is in Taiwan all my grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins and without technology Skype ability call existence now exit I exactly everybody's on zoom. That's right, I would never have a chance to recall anyone like that me just to even hear their voice see them in person, but see an image of them why I did face time when I was in Israel last October November face timing back home in Raleigh to my family saying hey look, that's the Sea of Galilee. Yup, that's right, raising that's right so we are able to see Rich anywhere in the world now you know you go to Google maps and you said and you just drop yourself down in the middle of Mount Everest. If you want to just look identical or not they are right but yet were more connected than ever before got such good efficiency connectivity what else to say the availability of information now. I'm so if you need to know something you'll have to ask somebody worksearch around research for months or weeks you can just Google it on YouTube video may not get you know you Google it right. I can't. I have looked for manual on Google on YouTube so I fix this. How I try to figure what going on here in usually a work so they just ask your little assistant S IRIN I say her name to go off but like I change my own brake pads that I learned to do that well. I just went to YouTube and brickbats about fixed the washer. I fixed the dryer ethics talk and stuff and am I done more home projects.

Now that's one way that I think it's actually a curse for me in my face all that information. Just it just makes it easier to come to work with us right now. The frailty of life in many different ways right. So efficiency connectivity information or access to information. Anything else just in terms of what about from a biblical perspective. That was a bit tougher. I think in some sense it connects to connectivity we can talk about how able to distribute the gospel in a much quicker and more even efficiency more efficient way. Now all we talk about making movies. A Jesus movie for those in unreached places and putting it in their language to even do that so quickly is truly amazing how having I make from an apologetic standpoint, you run into a question you're having a hard time with somebody to ask a question that you're struggling with problem of evil or whatever.

That's right, but I know you studied in Inigo okay I can look that up pretty quick. I think it's crazier to to get discipled because the technology because I have access to me before. If I just hey Steve, can you send me a couple of passages of Scripture that would be good for the tragic funeral of a child. Okay, all I need to go spend some time my Bible.

I'll get back to you later today. Now I can just five minutes after I register Google search good Scripture, tragic death child and I'll get umpteen millions. Was I really and immediately so there's all the positive will talk about the negatives of AI when we come back right at this little show theology Thursday with our friends at Southeastern Baptist theological seminary talking to Eddie will he's a PhD candidate here at Missouri in apologetics and culture and talk about something that we haven't really gone down this road before artificial intelligence and we are looking at an artificial intelligence and the good side of it, you know, efficiency, connectivity information and how that can Exley help us with a being people of the book in terms of discipleship, and learning more and access to Scripture and be able to pull things out easily through intelligence, artificial intelligence and technology in general spreading the gospel connectivity around the world.

Those are all great things but there's obviously a negative side is another side to this coin. This is a perfect example Eddie that I'd forgotten about this because I'm looking at a CNBC article from two years ago that list, the five main scary things about where AI could go. I forgot about this and so they listed this one under discrimination. Some readers may remember to pay TA why in AI Chabad created by Microsoft.

That's cause to stir two years ago that would've been 20 16th at 34 years ago.

The bot was given a twitter account and it took less than a day for users to train it to post offensive tweets supporting Adolf Hitler and white supremacy problem here was the fact that the chap I was trained to mimic users interacting with an online considering the oftentimes dark nature of some corners of the Internet.

It would be said the offending tweets were unsurprising blunder forced Microsoft to pull the account. Although the incident proved somewhat humorous. It ignited serious debate about the potential for AI to become prejudiced while said the discrimination was one number of unexpected consequences to expect in the technology because there's no moral component NAIA artificial intelligence can come up with the decisions can be a great utilitarian use it to talent utilitarian ethic and everything. So what's the most beneficial outcome or what set based on so there's would you say that's one of the biggest downsides of AI's there is no moral component of the system itself. That's interesting because I wish you say there is a moral component on the AI system is that we talk about the decoding itself. The actual programming. There is really no moral component.

There morality is inputted by the programmer. So who the programmer is there. The ones who are designing it and it's usually bent towards the bias of whoever that that programmer is so simple with sample of this tale robot AI bought. If this tale robot has any sort of racial prejudices or racial leanings. When we were another. It's probably not the result.

The robot itself for the AI system itself out as you argue it's a result of the programmer.

Yet, the programmer in or it left some code out for that's right allowed for that to happen and really it's the programmer who's allowing such thoughts work speech to come out of that jetway will then you got it. Now your kind introducing you to be all over the map on the some guises were just free-flowing conversation, but that introduces something that's that were off familiar with these days, which is kind of this notion of censorship.

So somebody to come in and say okay we have this official intelligence running the social media accounts. Now it's posting all kinds of crazy stuff, but who's going to decide what's crazy what is and is going to decide was proper and what isn't.

So there's the programmer side of then, should be looked at like how AI actually cortical learns yet a texture term is commonly used call machine learning is another words we say that programmer writes the code initially and then the program on its own learns the words as interacting with other things other people. It's begins to change his coder to self writing program. It can change his code on its own right. The program is designed it to be that way and we was that well that seems really scary right it can change itself like a T were talking about how certain users were affecting the way it was interacting with other people but yet some at some point I would argue, everything still comes down to that initial programmer, the man or the woman or even the company who sets the values for what that's Michigan a because and at some point they have the ability to change the coding to readjust whatever it is that may have gone wrong and to put it back in another way, another bias. Perhaps that's part of it is no robot is ever truly an an autonomous or they don't really have no moral fiber were no moral bent. Everyone has some sort of moral bent.

When we were another any robot that we create seems to have the ones that we input into its up as a member here about this and I think I heard about it on Glenn like Glenn Beck's on looking at it on sci-fi wire website bot wrote a believable Lord of the rings seen and now developers are scared of its power struck a singular okay we created this thing this is just every 15th last year so they they were teasing it because it was they were inputting all the Lord of the rings books right and then it's learning about the style of writing and what comes Wrexham could sell to get a prompt. Here's the promptly gave legalists and Gimli advanced on the orcs raising their weapons with the harrowing warcry that's the promptly so here's just a small sample of what the AI came up with to continue the tail so this was all completely written by the artificial intelligence right. Here's what it wrote York's response was a deafening onslaught of clause clause and clause given Elrond was forced to retreat. Quote you are in good hands.

Dwarf said Gimli, who had been among the first charge of the orcs; it took only two words before their opponents were reduced to a bloodsoaked quagmire in the door, took his first kill of the night. The battle lasted for hours until two of the largest orcs attempted to overwhelm Aragorn when they finally stop a lay defeated and lifeless for miles and miles that was written by artificial intelligence and you can't tell me. I mean, if I read that and I've up read all the books that muscle movies also and that that slips in there out of them like I would never question that I would've assumed that talking put it in there right right that's amazing and utterly terrified. Yeah, that's a very good example machine learning right. It takes something that's Artie been written something that's already been published using the style of the grammar or even some of the character else and it develops its own thing. But even that I was still say some programmer knows exactly how to pull the right nouns arrived verbs in the right grammar to allow the program to learn the right way so some sense even though it does sound like the robot is writing its own story.

Maybe at some point. It's the programmer who's kind of at the true author behind all this. Yes, ultimately it comes back to our own ethic write our own morality. What do you think that that conversation is being had much meaning inside the world of AI and all the companies and individuals that are involved in its development versus outside the world us here in the Christian world. I haven't seen that conversation happening much. No I don't I don't think it has been. I think we view our our phones in our devices and oldest AI's that we view it as a moral like you mentioned earlier. And so we don't think about it having his or moral bent so when something does go on a moral work and it leans towards one way or the other. We can become aghast because we don't think it's possible, but we get work and ignoring the fact that companies and programmers are inputting this now at some point I have to say maybe the companies don't realize this penalty. That's ethical issues and dilemmas like this I think or take the terms of products and advancement in markets is having advantages to run and then there's little you people you have plenty of people out there like Eli Mosk and basals who are visionaries and are considering a future American Orwellian in many ways, but I think most people just a matter of a week we got to build a better mousetrap.

I tried all about progress.

I think it so that is if you can make a faster computer, one that processes information will be quicker one that can take in more algorithms and try to find a more things about you know who the users that are using them. That's the key for them. Ethical questions tend to be capital the back burner. That's really interesting bright sun on Facebook.

Liza can utilize on my bots to share the gospel. How important is human interaction. Now imagine that we get out when we get some artificial intelligence to study you and your bride for a while we were going to spend time in the mission. The mission field and your wife as she was as a journeyman in an all of a sudden you got artificial intelligence that can carry on a gospel conversation you know we started the ball rolling. But now the ball is rolling on its own. Yep that's right so I had to argue in some way we we are misrepresenting what AI is worth thinking about them now in human terms. Other words it can do the job that we were created to do and in some sense it maybe mimic what we can do right and never really does replicate who we are and so you maybe you can share the gospel through preloaded tax that spits in our video that is fit cell, but there's really nothing quite like human interaction, exactly what she was at that remote is your explaining that the kind of reminds me now when you go you know. Do you want to chat with somebody if my mind Verizon and I'm trying to do something on my account. If you want to chat with somebody.

Now I sit there and go it's not somebody that's right. It's an AI program in Verizon that's going to act like hi Steve, how can I help you right it's all about efficiency and just sort of making the person you like to talk right somewhere think English get part of that done. They won the battle that the mother Monday done what they needed to do, but in terms of not being able to replace us if you're sharing the gospel in somebody sharing a personal story you have to have a biblical context understand what you're talking about yet to be with apply Scripture out of the understanding as a human being and from a perspective and have a moral component as they share things that they struggle with whatever you can't just get just program. Those answers and you end abortion so this is going to be the response.

That's right, you don't think programming and answers.

What will we do with humans. I think we tend to think a bit more.

We have other things that come into our play, not just our history but our emotions are families, our faith, our culture, all that comes into play in.

That's really hard to replicate an AI standpoint to get all those various factors in just make it a bot that you can spit out like now, let's talk about abortion today and now here's some preloaded answers I can spit out at you. I think they can spit out facts and just basic information in terms of having a conversation. There is something a little bit different yeah and and and one of the other thing is going on. This is another sidebar that I want to go down as a road but like they're creating life-size dolls for sexual purposes and then that are starting to program responses and it gets to know what supplier you think it's creepy and yet are you so to make sure we still got some hair growth will become back in the fracas will be the final segment of the show just beginning a conversation one sure will continue this with Eddie in the future about artificial intelligence, gospel, theology, ethics, we need to have this conversation now not happen right over the noble show. I will be out tomorrow traveling to Chattanooga to go to my mother and my sister and her husband and some of the love family time there and I'll be gone tomorrow be back on Tuesday so tomorrow will play best of show on Monday. My good buddy. Stu Epperson, Junior, who is the owner operator of truth radio network which is the stations many of you are listening on truth is been a radio for years is born into it. He had his own show for like 1011 years, he still does podcast and stuff so he's good friend. He's going to be on on Monday so that'll be high energy. I can guarantee that but I'll be back here in the studio on Tuesday just gone for a few days. Today were talking to Eddie will is a PhD candidate here at Southeastern Baptist were addressing this on theology Thursday, but we need to talk about more on the show in general the whole issue of artificial intelligence and moving rapidly ahead of us. It's already here and were not thinking a whole lot about the theological implications that drive ethical implications and as we talked about a few things Eddie about things that the that are out there that cannot AI gone wrong and what they we mention this is another website.

Think Microsoft Buckles Nazi on twitter so it started to post things that were like okay this is like you fit the road at that's bad wiki edit bots, engage in long-term feuds know that's while that's happening on Wikipedia going back and forth with information is no Huber cars run red lights during unauthorized real-world testing okay. What if somebody dies that who's who's responsible of bickering, bots, debate, existential dilemmas who are we wire we hear what's our purpose. There is these are some of the existential questions recently debated by two adjacent Google home devices powered by machine learning when they were cut loose all the conversation between themselves and not just reading this article. It's remarkably spooky to watch actually January. The lifestream service twitch set up the debate by putting to Google home smart speakers next to each other in front of a WebCam got weird fast own devices. Google answered the Amazon echo use speech recognition to understand spoken questions from us humans, but they can also converse with one another ostensibly learning from each other me that starches get crazy) look at Rife Empress move the two devices were named Vladimir and Esther got after characters from Samuel Beckett's existential play. Waiting for good.okay that's great, there's another one I will destroy humans when it comes when it comes AI gone awry a theme is emerged in recent years regarding speech recognition and natural language processing is we've Artie seen with the tape Bottoms Nazi Nexus and the accidental Google home debate artificial intelligence can easily get confused and trying to navigate the complex complexes of human language.

That's fascinating problem is another one. Military AI seems to create high-stakes ethical dilemmas jokes about terminators and future robotic overlords come easily when discussing the future of AI, but for very serious people and very serious jobs. It's no laughing matter. In fact, in the past few years, scholars and policymakers have convened dozens of conferences dedicated to exploring the ethics and dangers of future AI systems.

The White House even release its own report on this issue shortly before Obama topics Stephen Hawking has his concerns as well. And so there's all this all kinds of stuff going on here that I think we have to be very creative and be willing Russian robot makes a break for freedom hitting AI struggles mightily with image recognition. So whatever using AIM and recognition and in the law enforcement and people to people that looked similar that could be a racial issue or not. Look similar and this is less the guy send in the police or whatever and they get the wrong got there's yeah crazy yeah and so I think we see that a lot in. I would say we just don't understand what's happening so it right. Technology is moving so much quicker stops getting more advanced able to do more things at the summit where your staining seems like you're doing things we couldn't have imagined to do right and at some point we have to say this is what they were made to do as a robot it will have any other choices we did we talk about programming specifically staffing with AI all things runoff of an algorithm in some since they have to follow an algorithm second set of instructions so you have no choice but to follow that. So we talk about these Google homes and Alexa you arguing with each other about essential questions in theory, this is what they were programmed to do whether or not it seems like they're having a human conversation were not right there just doing what they were told to do when Israel interesting you brought up is this idea of putting human names onto robots right. We talked about him naming them to be Vladimir writing like that, but enough we have a Roomba at her house and we call DJ Roomba after from parks and wrecked and so we seem to assign human qualities to things and yet they're not, but we try to humanize that we kind of bring them back to our level so we can better understand who or what they are yet such exhibit. So like I think your wife brought this up and settled grizzle grizzle grizzle's Internet company that is headquartered in ponte near the end of the show its takeoff on Google knows that that wasn't parks and yes yes correct is a scenario we laugh yet, but we laugh now, but we need to be more justices on terms of kinda general concerns about AI again. The good thing about I know were all over the place and this is the high level information that were talking through but this what we need to do. We need to be imaginative need to be a little skeptical and we need to question what's going on here because this will lead us down. These roads were having these questions what could happen ethically. What how do we respond to this as as Christians but just, in general about six minutes or after.

In general, what what are your biggest concerns as AI continues to grow and develop. I think my biggest concerns are we as the church you left behind. I think it always seems to happen with technology. The church is almost always five or six years behind in the nude. The newest thing that's coming out.

And so, for example, a Snapchat was a pretty popular phone app running office and for AI and yet the church didn't respond to it until about two or three years after when there's a lot of damage exactly we do understand the implications. We understand how how it worked. No one was listening to the tech people. We were just sort of in our own little bubble is on some since.

I would say technologies to keep continuing our young people are going to keep getting the newest things really keep consuming new apps, new technology.

Whatever is even older people can't live without technology now. Yet we use them. We have no idea how to use them because we have allies looking at an article that was talking about's smart homes and their using artificial intelligence in the in the individual devices in the home but not right at all this stuff and all of a sudden what if the VAI that's in charge of these things is a problem misread some things and then it you have a freezing issue you issue an old person is susceptible to have L problem. So I think in terms of liability, whom I actually do.

I mean there is a well machine that's learning on its own all, and second to program the machine the programmers of the company.

The company released all get kinda crazy. I think at some point it makes us less response we we can just epic push the blame to our tour machines and we can say well it's not all me. I will have to learn about this because machines malfunction evening hear people say my machines broke down what's wrong with it and pushed off to the side yet that's on us. We are consumers in this world and this is part of creation. We've created these things and we need to be good stewards of all of our creation. And yet, I sometimes fear that we fall short of that word were not the good stewards I got is called us to be. Do you think that we've I think one thing that super important is we should be encouraging our sons and daughters and and younger Christians who can move into that world.

I mean from a job perspective get into that conversation.

If you're not can it derail the system to keep happening and skin to keep growing. But do we actually have Christians involved with the development of these things so that you can bring in a moral component. Yes I think that's where the church maybe need to start directing their attention so we have a lot of young men and women who are going to the tech sector who understand what's going on.

We need to rely on them instead of just listening to bloggers or people on the Internet about their points. What what art was actually going on with this and so I think that requires a certain aptitude in what I think in some since we are missing because a lot of people were just consumers.

We don't learn about what's going on.

We would rather just use it right you maybe heard the parent say I don't know how to use my funnel was going on my phone but I know how it works. I just know we can do this so I can do what I want exactly, but I was and it's not healthy that's not true knowledge of your device you have any mastery over it. It's actually a master over you. So in some sense we can maybe start pulling in some of our tech Christian brothers and sisters and maybe line on them. What do they know about these things that are to what today things going on behind the coding and how how does it react to them. I think in some sense, we can then become masters of our technology rather than the other way around exactly that such a great point and I think that's why like our son is in our oldest son went to school in Florida, colorful salad he's game artist is elitist 3D stuff inside a game environment he can to stop virtual reality doing stuff with the defense industry right now is to get back in the gaming industry and some people like you let your son go work in the game industry and at first Michael, first of all when he's done with his education. Let isn't really part of the equation anymore but but once I started understand. Would you rather have some strong believers in the gaming industry or not.

I'd rather have them in their and as we look at artificial intelligence.

Smart devices would you rather have people that carry a biblical component of it, or a component in there or not you will abandon it because it seems to worldly goes back to our conversation about where the morality lies. Yet memory right lies in the programmer and so we don't have any biblically minded were ethically minded programmers and were all get going to be seen that secular worldview come through our technology.

Technology reveals who we are, more than anything else. And if we don't have any strong believers in there will never see a strong biblical worldview coming out of that.

Yeah. And I think that's that's a lesson. All of us of your parent or grandparent out there and in your two kids are too young for this yet, but they're gonna move in this direction that if we see them. If we see our kids growing up in a Christian home that have some aptitudes in this direction I say don't hate you should go to the gaming industry should go in the tech industry is much crazy atheists in their bowl of the law go who's gonna take Jesus in their and I haven't even mentioned the gospel opportunity. That's right you in Silicon Valley like our oldest son wants to move to San Francisco because there's a lot of gaming companies there. He loved end up working in the Star Wars industry out there feeling a San Francisco I would never ever let Mike a good Mike. Now you sound like Jonah, that's for minute what are you kidding me.

I want to go to Nineveh what is hundreds of thousands of souls we discharged. Not just because of morality or lack of trying very very point.

I love this conversation will deftly again, Eddie will thank you so much for coming in today Eddie the southeastern apologetics, culture, and I'm excited that you're to be teaching you know so so much for coming to deftly think you will do it again. Okay, this is the nobleness the noble show.

I won't be here tomorrow. I'm willing to back. Hopefully will get back together then the ball for this is no one to speak noble show, God willing, I'll be with you always

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