An Interview with Pastor John Kilpatrick on Revival

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And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Friends, for many years we have said that the only hope for America is revival in the church, spreading to awakening in the nation, that it really is revival or we die. And I often make reference to the years I had the privilege of serving in the Brownsville Revival, the years of 1996 to 2000, one of the great highlights of my life, to see God moving in ways that we had dreamed about and prayed for and fasted for and longed for and read about for so many years.

To be in the thick of it was extraordinary. And the man that God entrusted as the pastor of the Brownsville Revival was John Kilpatrick. Subsequently, God used him in another powerful move in his church than in Alabama. And he continues to contend for revival. One of the great honors of my life to serve under him in those years in Pensacola.

Destiny Image has reissued his book. It's a revival classic, When the Heavens Are Brass, Practical Keys to Experiencing Genuine Revival. Pastor Kilpatrick, so good to have you on the air with us. Thanks for joining us today. Brother Mike Brown, it's so good to be with you. Oh man, it's a delight to hear your voice.

It really is. So, let's go back in time. You were pastoring Brownsville Assembly of God, and for all intents and purposes, it was a successful church. You were doing well, right? Yeah, church was doing good. I'd been there 13 years when revival broke out, so I knew everybody by their name and their children, and church had grown. You know, when I took it, it was running a little bit less than 300 people, but now it was, I think the Sunday that revival broke out, it was running like 1700 people. And you were in a new building, you had a regional TV show, and yet you were spiritually hungry, yet there was desperation. What caused that? Well, you know, we had built a new building and everything was just beautiful.

I was on television around the world at that time on satellite. My family at the church, everybody, everything was going great, but I was in the church when we dedicated it. A few days later, I was in there by myself, and I just laid down on the floor and I told God, I said, God, I don't mean to sound unthankful, but I said, God, I'm so lonely. I'm hurting, I'm so lonely. I said, it's palpable. I said, Lord, why am I so lonely?

I said, I've got everything to be thankful for, everything, but I feel guilty even telling you this. Man, the Lord responded to me immediately, and he said, if you'll return to the God of your childhood, he said, I'll pour out my spirit in this place. What did that mean to you, the God of your childhood? Well, I was called to preach at 14, and whenever I was called to preach, I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And my pastor, my father left, my mother and I, when I was 12, so my pastor basically stepped in when I was called to preach.

My mother had to work at nighttime, my sisters, they were gone, they were married, my half sisters. So I was really at home by myself, and he stepped in and asked my mother, he said, would you let me take your son? And by the way, he was my brother-in-law, his son married my sisters, so he was sort of family. And he said, would you let me take your son, he called me out, and would you let me teach him how to pray? He said, I'm in prayer meeting up here, and he said, I come up and pray every night, and he said, instead of him just sitting there at home, would you let him come up here? I'd like to teach him how to pray. And my mother said, well pastor, would you do that for my son?

He said, yeah. He said, I feel like God has his hand on him. So I began to pray with him, brother Mike, every night, and as I began to pray with him, you know, in the early part of that, I felt so deprived. I mean, here I am, a young boy, 14 years old, I'm up there praying with this old man, and I just felt like my life was slipping by me.

I felt like I had nothing in my life. My dad was gone, my mother was working at night, I went to school in the daytime, at nighttime I'm with him, you know, and I just felt like, oh, Jesus, what is this? But man, little did I know, it was my destiny to be with him, because as I began to pray with him, he always prayed every night, and some nights there were other people that joined us.

But many nights, it was just me and him. And what he would do is he would teach a few of us, you know, at nighttime in the classroom upstairs, he would teach us the Word of God for an hour, and then he would hand us the chalk and the eraser and say, all right, I want you to teach me what I just taught you, so you better be listening. So whenever we'd get up and try to teach him back, you know, we would make mistakes. And he would gently correct us, bodily correct us, you know, and then I began to catch on what he was doing. And so I began to pay acute attention and pay attention to everything he was saying. So by the time I got the chalk and the eraser and stood up there, I got to where I could teach back to him what he taught to me.

And it was hands on. And then we'd go out and get a bite to eat and then come back and 1130 at night, we called it the midnight prayer meetings, he would tell stories, he'd tell preacher stories from 1130 at night until midnight, and at midnight, every night we started praying, it's called midnight prayer meeting. And we would usually pray at least an hour, but many times longer, and I usually wouldn't get home and get in the bed until like 130, sometime even to 230 in the morning, and I had to be at school at 730.

So I got used early in my life to no sleep, you know, I got used to it just became my sleep cycle. But, man, when I began to learn the word, and when I began to pray with pastor, and when he began to teach me about prayer, and whenever I began to do prayer with him, and then I began to see powerful, powerful results. And then after about a year or so, I had a powerful, supernatural experience in prayer meeting. And I won't go into the details on that, but it was really, it was a life changing experience. And man, I mean, I could not wait to get to that prayer meeting every night.

It changed my life. And even when I dated Brenda, and we were dating steady and about to get married, I still would leave her on the date late at night and go up there and join him in prayer. That's how much those prayer meetings meant to me and I did that till I got married. And we went off to Bible school. I was with him for years. I was with him over two years every night in prayer that Sunday through Sunday without missing a night.

Never missed one night. That's how much those prayer meetings meant to me. It changed my life, actually. And he, you know, the damage that was done to me through my earthly father, my biological father, pastor basically became my spiritual father. He was my replacement father, but he was such a perfect, perfect example of a Christian as well as a man of God. And he, I loved him and I used to really wonder, you know, is this man, is he really a man or is he an angel? He was just perfect in my eyes. He was prophetic. He was not crazy with it. He was not weird with it.

He was solid as a rock. And if he ever told you something prophetically, it was going to happen. And he didn't know it, but many times, brother Mike, he would tell me something that was going to happen and I'd go back and I'd pull a piece of paper out of my wallet. I had like a piece of notebook paper in my wallet and he'd tell me things and I'd write down what he said and I would date it. And then when it would come to pass, I would go back and check it off. And the things that he told me were going to come to pass, it may have been several months later or several weeks later, but it came to pass. He was an accurate prophet.

So you had this amazing heritage then. This is the God of your childhood and seeking him earnestly and God promised you if you do that, he would, he would pour out his spirit. We've got about three minutes before the first break, but what that mean to you when you heard God would pour out a spirit? Did you have a vision?

Did you have a mental picture or something back in history that you could go to or was it just kind of something beautiful but vague? Well, I tell you what, I had already pastored two churches in Georgia, one in Indiana, and that was at Brownsville. And so when the Lord said that to me, I'd already had success and I had become really busy in the ministry. My church had, you know, my other churches had grown to be big churches.

Brownsville had grown to be a big church. So I had success. But when I was in there and I said, I'm so lonely, what I think of my heart was crying out, Lord, I've got success and I've got everything, but I miss what I used to have in those prayer meetings. And so my mind went back to those powerful supernatural visitations and I yearned for it.

I was hungry for it. And how long did this go on when you'd go into the church building alone at night and groan and pray because a lot of people, they want to see God move, they want to see revival, but they don't know what it would take and how long. So what was going on?

What was the process? Well, one night my wife and I went to New Orleans one day, we went over there shopping and we ate out and had a good time. And on the way home, we were talking. We were just talking, you know, about the things of the Lord and everything, pastoring and all. And while I was talking to her, I had something come over me, just like a fire shut up in my bones. And man, I just started weeping and I dropped her off at home and I told her, I said, I got to go to the church. I got to go to the church. And she said, you okay?

I said, yeah, I'll be fine. So I went to the church in the dark, let myself in through the breezeway. And man, I barely made it to the front row, that front pew. And I just stretched out on that front pew and grabbed the end of the pew. And I just began to bell her like a cow, just began to bell her. I mean, you couldn't even understand it. It was not tongues.

It was just groanings and moanings. And it scared me whenever I heard it because I'm thinking, what is wrong with me? What in the world is going on with me? Why am I doing this?

I've never done this before. But there was some kind of a strange release that I had when I was doing that, but it was deep calling to deep. It was the deep of me calling to the deep of God. God understood that groan. And as I was doing it, Mike, I got a release from that and I knew that God heard me. And that was my language with him for some time.

That happened a number of times, quite a number of times. I'd wake up at three o'clock in the morning and I'd tell Brenda, don't worry, I'm going to the church. I'd just put on a pair of sweatpants, just an old shirt, put on my slippers.

And I'd go over there like at three o'clock and sometimes stay until daylight and I'd come home. But I'd go to that front row, man, and I'd stretch out across that pew. Just groan, groan, yeah.

Friends, some of you can relate to this. The only articulation of the cry of your heart is just all the groan to God, but he hears that. Friends, these were the seeds that were planted in the years before the Brownsville revival. We'll be right back with Pastor John Kilpatrick, his book, When the Heavens are Brass. I'm speaking today with my esteemed friend and colleague, Pastor John Kilpatrick, his book, When the Heavens are Brass. Practical keys to experiencing genuine revival.

Obviously the right man to write this book. So, Pastor, were there times in prayer that you felt discouraged, like it's not going to happen, God's not going to move, I'm just here talking to the walls? Yeah, I would say this, even when I was praying with Pastor, it wasn't always glorious. I was with him night after night after night, every night, never missing for over two years. And not every one of those prayer meetings was grand and glorious and breakthrough.

Most of them was almost, some of them was even dull and monotonous. But I heard a guy say years ago, and I never forgot it, he said, sometimes prayer is like digging holes. Sometimes prayer is like planting poles. Sometimes prayer is like stretching wire. And then sometimes prayer is like pulling the lever and the power flows. So a lot of times whenever you're praying, you're doing the work of prayer, and you can't see much results of it, but you're digging holes.

You're planting poles, you're stretching wire, you're putting in place the structure for the power to flow through. But I'll say this, I'll say that if a person wants revival, it's work. And prayer is work. And God never puts revival on sale. It'll cost this generation what it costs every other generation. It's prayer. It's the price that you pay, and God never puts it on sale.

He never discounts it 50%. You know, if you'll just seek me, you won't have to do what other generations have done. We're going to have to do exactly what they've done. And God will do exactly what he promises to do.

But prayer is wonderful, but you know, we're going to have to re-emphasize and re-teach people, Christian people, sometime about prayer because it's so misunderstood. And the fact is, if we're not hungry, then we're not going to welcome revival. It'd be like you go out for a giant meal, and you're completely stuffed, and then someone offers you dessert.

You don't even want to see it. So why would someone want to be in church services every night? Why would you want meetings that can go five or six hours? Why would you want the intensity of revival unless there's a hunger and there's a thirst? And if God simply, like you said, put things on sale, then when they came, they wouldn't be welcomed, the foundations wouldn't be properly laid. And God gave you a strategy then to prepare your church for God coming in revival, gave you a word that if you make it a house of prayer, that he would visit. So what was the strategy that God gave you to engage the whole church in regular prayer for revival? Well, that day when I was in the church praying, and the Lord said, If you'll make this a house of prayer, I'll pour out my spirit, I got up from the floor, and I remember I was walking back toward the foyer, and I was saying under my breath to the Lord, Well, Lord, you know that prayer is the least attended church service of the week.

You know, you can have a fish fry or chicken fry and people come out, but prayer meeting people just don't come out. You know, I'm thinking, Yah, I know your house is a house of prayer, but immediately the Lord said to me, I'll give you a strategy, I'll give you a plan. And by the time I got back to the foyer to open the back doors of the sanctuary to walk out in the foyer, it came just that quick, just like a download.

Didn't hear it talk to me, it wasn't explained to me, it was a download. Bam! I got it just that quick. And the Lord gave me an idea of 12 prayer banners, and I had those prayer banners made, they were handmade, they were beautiful, they were huge, because our church was large, they were huge. And I knew that whenever we got ready to get through with praise and worship and to move into that prayer time, I knew that, you know, I need to position those prayer banners over the sanctuary so the congregation, there was going to be hundreds of people in there, I had to position them where people would have room to move around and migrate from banner to banner.

We had two up in the balcony, one was leaders of our country and the other one was warfare. Down below we had, you know, healing banners, school banners where we prayed for schools, we had banners where we prayed for other churches and other pastors, we had a revival banner, Brenda was over the revival banner, we had 12 of them. If you prayed 5 minutes around 12 banners, each 12 banners, you prayed an hour, 5 times 12 is 60. And so what would happen is when the praise and worship was over, I would dismiss the crowd to go back to, you know, to gather around a certain banner, like their homeroom banner, they would pick out a banner, gather around that like a homeroom banner. Every banner had a leader and for 5 minutes that leader would tell everybody what they were going to be praying about concerning that banner that night. Like I was around the leaders of our country and the prayer banner leader up there was explaining to us, we're going to be praying about, you know, something coming up in the justice department this week. We're going to be praying about this, we're going to be praying about that.

It had to do with government. And so every prayer banner would talk 5 minutes. After they talked and explained what we were going to be praying about around those banners that night for 5 minutes, then in the background we'd hear background music coming up.

It was canned music, it was powerful music, it was instrumental, no singing. And when we brought the music up, the prayer banner leaders needed to be quiet now, it's time to pray. And so everybody started praying.

Well I'm going to be honest with you. When we first, when I first got ready to dismiss everybody that first Sunday, on Sunday night I was going to be doing away with preaching because we always had preaching on Sunday night. When I first got ready to do away with preaching on Sunday night and transition totally to prayer, I was a nervous wreck. And I mean when I dismissed everybody I went up on the second level going up into the balcony on the stairs and I just stood there and I was going to see how many people were going to leave. I was afraid I was going to lose our crowd. Well I saw about 3 or 4 families leave, but it wasn't a big deal.

Everybody stayed. But it was like a little demon jumped up on my shoulder and said, You better stop this. You better stop it now. You're going to lose your crowd. If you keep this stuff, you're going to lose your crowd. You better stop this right now.

And I just ignored it. I knew, you know, I'm going to pray. I've called this prayer, we're going to do it. This is what the Lord wants.

Come hell or high water, we'll pray. Well the next week I dismissed the crowd, there it was again right up on my shoulder like a little monkey. You better stop this. If you don't stop this, you're going to lose your church. Don't you know if you keep this up, they're going to leave.

Don't you know that? You better stop it now while you can. And listen, I went through that for a year. Every Sunday night, a year of that accusing voice of my ear, you better stop it. And all the time the church was growing on Sunday night, it grew up to 20% above normal. All the time we're having breakthroughs, now we're praying longer than an hour. Now the people on their own are praying like an hour 15, hour 20, sometime even two hours on Sunday night. Now the crowd is growing and yet that demon on my shoulder is still saying, you better stop this.

If you don't stop it, you're going to lose this crowd. Completely opposite of what was happening. But I remember one Sunday night, I was up in the balcony and I was looking down and we had dismissed and people, the banner leaders had just got through explaining what they were going to be praying about and heard the background music come up. And man, I saw that crowd begin to move around and start praying. They just lifted their voices immediately and started praying with no coaching.

They just did it on their own. And I heard the Lord just thunder in my spirit. He said, I am about to pour out my spirit in this place. And I knew then, you know, this is it.

We've had a breakthrough. And revival still didn't come until a year later, a year and a half later. And here's one thing I would say to your listeners is if you, when we first started praying, it felt like revival was going to break out any second. It just, it was palpable. I mean, it was just like your heart was palpitating revival.

It's like it just busts forth. And we prayed and prayed two and a half years and it didn't happen. It didn't happen. And the longer we prayed, the further it seemed away from us. But as we kept praying, the further it seemed actually in reality, the closer it came. So the bottom line is this, if you're praying about something and it feels like it's about to happen, it's probably not. But if you're praying and it feels like it'll never happen, it's probably right at the door. That's just the way it happened.

I mean, that's just the way that it happened. And just when I felt like it would never happen, I had even picked up the telephone, brother Mike, and call some district superintendents of this. Some of the gods say, Hey, do you have any churches available?

I feel like it's time for me to make a move. And here I am leading a prayer meeting, been leading it two and a half years. And God's about to pour out his spirit. Revival's about to come to Pensacola and to Brownsville. And I feel so detached and out of touch, I was thinking it was time for me to go, that my ministry was over there.

Incredible. So maybe somebody's listening to us today and they're feeling the same way and I would just say this, Hey, listen, tie another knot and hang on because God is faithful. He will answer. Oh yeah, there's no question that that word is timely for both leaders and individual believers.

No question whatsoever. Alright, we'll be right back with Pastor John Kilpatrick. If you want your heart to be stirred, encouraged, if you want to grow in hope, faith, perseverance, vision, you want to be challenged, you want to be stretched, the book, When the Heavens Are Brass, practical keys to experiencing genuine revival. And we'll give you a picture of what revival looks like by someone who has lived in it as an eyewitness. Friends, stay right here.

We'll be right back on the other side of the break. Pastor John Kilpatrick, the book, When the Heavens Are Brass. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on The Line of Fire as I speak with Pastor John Kilpatrick, author of the book, When the Heavens Are Brass. So, Pastor, when revival broke out, Father's Day of 1995, and God came in a sudden and unexpected way, the things that happened in the weeks after that almost sound unreal. The reports, God called me to join you 11 months into it, so I heard some of the stories of the early days, but they sound like they're make-believe.

They sound so extreme. You were there. You witnessed it. I witnessed it.

Ultimately, several million people witnessed what God was doing. Do you recall what happened the night that two Playboy bunnies showed up? They were in the city for a photo shoot, and bad weather canceled it, so they asked the taxi driver, where's the action in Pensacola?

It got dropped off. What do you remember happening? Yeah, it was a sunny night. We'd had a hurricane, Hurricane Elena, come through, and knocked the power out all over Pensacola. And these Playboy bunnies had came in and had gone to the hotel, and the power was out of their hotel.

And so they called a taxi, and they were supposed to do a shoot on the beach the next day, but, you know, the hurricane had tore up the beaches and all, so they called a taxi, and when they got in the taxi, they said, hey, what's the going thing in Pensacola? He said, well, he said the revival. They said, revival, what do you mean?

What does that mean? They said, well, there's a revival over here at this church, and people coming from all over the world are this revival. They said, oh yeah, let's take it over there.

We'll go there, sure. So I remember that night. We had power at the church of all places. The power didn't go out at Brownsville. That's amazing.

Yeah. So they came in, and when the altar call was given, Steve gave the altar call, you know, they came down, I didn't know who they were, you know, they were beautiful women, but they came down, and they, you know, they got saved. They gave their life to the Lord. So at the end of the service, you remember, we always would go around laying hands on people, so he would usually, Steve would go off to the right, and I'd usually go off to the left, while these girls was on my left-hand side, so, you know, I'd been praying for a few people, and, you know, the power of God was coming on people, and they were hitting the floor, you know, and just the spirit of God, I mean, it's just revival.

I mean, it's just the classic sights and sounds of revival. So I walked up to them, and I said, hi, I said, I'm Pastor Kilpatrick. I said, what do you need?

What do you need from the Lord? And one of them spoke up and said, hey, we need anything he'll give us. And I said, well, now, help me to understand where you're coming from. And she told me they were Playboy bunnies, and they asked the taxi driver, he brought them over there, she told me the story. I lifted my hand, Brother Mike, to touch them on their head, to touch the first one on their head.

I never even touched her on the head. She hit the floor, and she hit the floor so hard that her knees, her ankles, her heels, and her elbows started pounding the floor, and, you know, there's concrete floor under that carpet. And I mean to tell you, it was like, oh, I mean, I was in pain just hearing those sounds. She was flailing, banging that carpet, and I went to touch the other one. She hit the floor, looked just like the other one, doing the same thing. I went off and prayed for some more people, came back, and they were still flailing that floor.

Well, I came back a few minutes later, and they had wound down, man. And I got the ushers to help them up. They were sopping wet. Their hair was stuck to their face and their head.

Their makeup was gone. And I walked up to them, and I said, what in the world happened? The first one looked at me, and she said, he shook the hell out of me.

The same person. Oh, my God. I don't even feel like the same person. I feel like my name needs to be changed. And I couldn't help but think about that song we've sung in church all these years.

There's a new name in glory, you know. I mean, they were a classic case, Dr. Brown. They were just a classic case of revival in the early days. Yeah, and what's interesting is I was referring to that story last year, speaking at our home congregation here, where I'll speak periodically. And one of the fellows who had been in Pensacola all those years came up and said, you know the rest of the story.

He got to know one of these ladies afterwards, had moved to Pensacola, got discipled, and so on. And, you know, you hear the rest of the story, and I'm sure you have this to this day as you travel around the country. And I'll hear it all over the world, people will come up to me and they'll tell me what happened 23 years ago, 25 years ago, often with tears. And they'll say, I've never been the same.

So it's not just some emotional moment. I mean, God changes people's lives. And as you had hungered and thirsted for God to come in this way, what did revival mean to you personally? Well, you know, I have to give you credit also, Dr. Brown, because, you know, Steve was the evangelist. I was the pastor.

Lindell was the worship, you know, he was the psalmist. But when God sent you in, you know, he sent you in at such an opportune time because, you know, you're scholarly. You're a brilliant man of the word, you're an author. And, you know, you've had quite an experience with God.

Your history is in Pentecost. And you, you know, when God brought you in there, you was such a stabilizing force in that revival and you helped give it good direction. And I can't thank you enough. And I just wanted to say today, you know, in the hearing of all of those listening, that you were such an integral part of that revival also. Well, thank you and thank the Lord.

And what an honor, what an honor it was to serve side by side those years. And the fruit will astound us in the years ahead. So, revival though, you can't contain it, you can't just schedule it. So it came as an overwhelming flood. You were touched and as you experienced God, so you went from that deep hunger, that agonizing cry. How did the encounter with God affect you? I mean, the responsibility is overwhelming.

I always look at it. As the years have gone on, my esteem for you has grown even more because I think, wow, that's an intense entrustment. It's several million people coming from around the world, people from over 130 nations, the lines forming at six in the morning. You had to massively increase your staff and the pressure and the attack and the lies. And yet, you were encountering God in a rich way. What was happening to you? Oh man, you know, my mother went through tremendous abuse to have me in church. And my father was very abusive toward her and used to beat her for taking me to church. And my mother died five weeks before that revival and she lived there with us in Pensacola and she came to my church.

And she died on May the 7th, a week before Mother's Day. And so when revival broke out, my mother loved the move of God. She loved the moving of the Spirit.

And so my first thing that I felt was I was standing on the platform and I was seeing what I had prayed for and hoped to see in my lifetime. I was seeing it with my eyes, but my mama was gone. She was not there. She was gone. And she paid a tremendous price for her boy to be in church.

I mean, it was bittersweet. I was seeing the dream of my life, but I was suffering the pain of my heart for not being there because she just loved the presence of God. I always loved to see the Spirit of the Lord get on my mother because she had the sweetest and cutest little manifestation where the Lord would get on her. And I mean, when I hit the floor that morning on Father's Day, nobody even touched me. I just went down. I couldn't stand up.

It was like sticking fire to butter. Your legs just wouldn't hold you up. I just went down, collapsed on the floor and I was down four hours on the floor. On that hard, I had marble floor. And when I finally got up, I got up a different man.

I just got up a different man. I was touched. For God to send revival to me and the church where I pastor was really a remarkable thing because I was always the type of guy that I wasn't going to let anything go on in my church that I felt like was flesh or sin, you know, demonic. I mean, I was the type of person.

I'd be on it like white on a rack. But whenever I got up, I have to be honest with you and tell you, God touched me in such a deep, powerful way that when I would see things that ordinarily I would have shut down, I couldn't touch it because I said to myself, well, if God just did that in me on the floor for the last four hours, he's doing something in them too. And I had a hard time trying to correct anything because it was just mind boggling the way God was moving.

And, you know, I've always tried to dignify the presence of God by having order, you know, having everything decently and in order. But whenever revival comes, it's holy pandemonium. And people are being touched so powerfully that they just can't hardly contain themselves. I mean, there's shrieks of joy. There's deep laughter. There's deep crying. It just shrieks and sounds of hundreds of people being touched.

I mean, the sound is still in my head 25 years later, as though it was yesterday. And church, revival is not church as usual. Church as usual. Revival is revival. It's distinctive. It has the sounds that's distinctive with revival, not church as usual.

You don't hear those sounds in church as usual. But it lasted five years. And God would bring different crowds in weekly from all over the world, you know, and it lasted those five years. And every week there was new people, new crowds that God would bring in.

He would touch them, send them out. Next week, new crowds come in. It was a miracle to see it. It was mind-boggling. You know, you were there.

Yeah, truly. And, you know, when you read about revival historically, that's what you read about. People weeping in repentance, people collapsing on the floor like dead people, overwhelmed with conviction or the presence of God.

And then hear people leaping for joy. And when you read the Word, you see that when Jesus comes, things are disrupted. And yet, there was always this feeling, Pastor, that you still, you had a wisdom to shepherd things.

And when people got in the flesh, it was dealt with. But let God move and be glorified. All right, just got a couple more minutes with Pastor John Kilpatrick. I really encourage you, pick up the book, When the Heavens Are Brass. It'll stir you, it'll incur you, encourage you.

It might even light a fresh fire for revival in your heart today. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us. Hey, a little less than 30 minutes from now, we'll be back on YouTube.

That's AskDrBrown, A-S-K-D-R Brown on YouTube. So, 4.15 Eastern Time for a weekly exclusive Q&A YouTube chat. So, we'll join you back shortly for that after this broadcast. Just got a couple more minutes with my guest, Pastor John Kilpatrick, author of the book, When the Heavens Are Brass.

What are you hoping that readers will get out of your book? Well, the book was written during revival, but the concept was given to me before revival. And the Lord spoke to me and He said, The heavens are brassing over this way toward Pensacola from New Orleans. And He said, If you'll preach what I give you, and I don't mean that to sound arrogant, I don't mean it to sound that way at all, but the Lord said, If you'll preach it on the air, preach what I give you. He said, I'm going to open the heavens over Pensacola.

He told me that in 88, seven years before. And that's when I began to get these messages on the heavens are brass. Well, the heavens opened up just like a portal came and the heavens opened up over Pensacola in 1995. And the Lord was showing me that the heavens were brassing over because of sin, rebellion and disobedience.

And that's what closes the heavens. And, you know, when Jesus came, He said to Nathanael, He said, You'll see heaven open over the Son of Man and angels ascending and descending. And when Jesus came, there was 400 years, there was no prophet, there was no fresh word from God. So when Jesus came, He was so different in so many ways, but He had an open heaven over Him.

And that's what made Him so distinctively different. And He was actually saying, If you'll follow me and if you'll become part of my kingdom, you can have an open heaven over you too. So I wrote this book to help Christians understand the differences between an open heaven and what it means to have angels going for you and coming for you and having the power of the Holy Spirit in your life. And so as I wrote that book, I wrote it during revival. And so after, I have just now, you know, we have re-released it, it's a re-release and we've gone through the whole book, cleaned it up and even put some fresh stuff through there that we didn't have in there before. So it's a modern day classic that has been updated and it's something that's been lived out.

In other words, it's not just theory, it's something that's been lived out and proven. Hey, last question for you, my brother. Do you have hope that America could see another great revival? You know, I do.

I mean, who would have ever thought that Roe versus Wade would be overturned? Yeah. I mean, look what happened just last week. That is a monumental thing.

That was 49 years in the making. It happened. It happened suddenly.

It's a suddenly. Revival never usually comes during the good times. It comes in the worst of times. And so I think as things get darker and darker, as you see evil men waxing worse and worse, I believe that's the very climate and that's the very atmosphere that revival breaks out. And I believe revival is probably right at the door. And I'll tell you what I believe. I believe that God is probably going to bring the next, last revival, which I believe will be harvest.

Harvest of souls, but I believe he's going to bring it to the marketplace. I don't think it's going to be so much in the churches. I believe it will be in churches. But I think that some of the greatest miracles, some of the greatest powerful things that's going to happen will be outside the doors of the church. And that's, yeah, that's what has to happen if America is going to be shaken.

And my anticipation is, is for thousands of hotspots all over America. And even as you speak of it, right, that's the way it has to be, that the presence of God coming down. And of course, there was always the wonder of hearing the people coming to a church building, being touched, but then they'd be touched when they left, when they were flying home, when they landed overseas, when they were driving back. Some felt, they didn't even think they experienced anything, and when they, around families, suddenly the Holy Spirit would move. So, we're talking about God moving.

Yeah, go ahead. I say this respectfully, brother, Dr. Brown, but I say this very respectfully, but many times, your greatest resistance comes from within the church. Yeah. Sometimes people have been trained against the Holy Spirit, tongues, miracles, gifts of the Spirit, but you go out there in the world where all hell is breaking loose and people's families fall into all the pieces, people are suicidal, people are in depression, and they see a flicker of something that they feel like is God, they don't mind that they're in McDonald's. Lay hands on me and pray for me.

Would you please pray for me? Yeah. I mean, right there, right there, God will move and touch them, but I think sometimes some of the greatest resistance is within the confines of the house of God. Yeah, it's a great point. Historically, we know it's true both in the Bible and in the history of God moving in revival. And yeah, all the more reason, a lot of people, especially so many are unchurched these days, and they don't have the negative expectations or certain traditional parameters, and they just know, hey, I'm hurting, I'm messed up, and if what you're talking about is real, then I need help. And when they get touched, what they'll do is they'll go out and they'll become evangelists themselves, and they'll begin performing miracles themselves, because, you know, just like the Lord told Legion, he said, no, you stay here, because he said your testimony is worth more here than it is with me on the road.

Yeah, it's true. And I was told about a missionary, I think from Finland, was working in China, and then got trapped there when the bamboo curtain came off, and she was just in isolated areas, it's the only place she could survive, and a young man had come to faith and was going praying for the sick in the name of Jesus Christ of Bethlehem. And she said, no, no, it's Jesus Christ of Nazareth, he said, but it's working.

He had the right person, he just didn't get, you know, and that's where he was born, but that's, I mean the fact that there's people just like, hey, he changed me, this is real, and I want to share it with us. Absolutely. Absolutely. I love it. Well, it's always great talking with you again, I honor you and the Lord, and can't wait to see what God does in the years ahead. Thank you for your faithfulness, and thank you for loving the Lord to this day, I appreciate it. Thank you, Dr. Brown, I love you.

Love you too. Alright, Pastor John Kilpatrick, the book, again, When the Heavens are Brass, Practical Keys to Experiencing Genuine Revival. And here, this New York Jew and this Southern pastor, we became friends, worked together, and we're friends to this day. God bless you, thanks so much for joining us.

Alright, friends, boy, I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed our time. And you know, at the end of the revival, the enemy got between us, between Pastor Kilpatrick and me, but God brought us back together, wonderful reconciliation, and I want to encourage you, don't let the devil divide, don't let the enemy win. Don't let division win, don't let discouragement win, because God is faithful. And you know, I had prayed and cried out to God for years, fasted, sought his face, God connected me with Leonard Ravenhill, the author of Why Revival Tarrys. And we would pray and just spending time with him in his hunger for God, his passion for God, and his heart for the Lord was just overwhelming. And then God connected me with David Wilkerson in Times Square Church, and there was great prayer there for outpouring and the moving of the Spirit.

That prayer has gone on for many years there. These things just deepened the hunger, the passion, the desire. And I knew God was moving here and here, different places, and I'd hear the reports, and I was blessed, but I knew there was something more. I knew that there was something that was going to be repentance-based, with a strong emphasis on the holiness of God, with a strong emphasis on reaching the lost. And that's why God called me to serve there in Pensacola, to raise up a school of ministry, Brownsville Revival School of Ministry and then Fire School of Ministry.

And grads who were touched in Pensacola or in the subsequent school, grads that were touched have been serving all around the world. Some have been on the mission field over 20 years, and I remember in the earlier days of the revival, again, I was there from 11 months into it, so the end of the first year and then those next four years. And I remember critics would say, it's not revival, it's not real, it's just emotionalism. These are not real converts, just people falling, shaking, there's nothing to it. It's just a bunch of emotionalism where it's demonic. And we'd say, well, if it's demonic, why are people turning from sin to God? Why are they loving the Jesus of the Bible with all their hearts? Why are they embracing the word of God and living by the word of God? Why are they now burdened to reach the lost?

The flesh doesn't produce that, Satan won't produce that, can't produce that, whereas the coming of God is just temporary. Well, now, not only is the fruit of the revival over 25 years old, but some of the people who were touched and transformed have been on the mission field, serving sacrificially for over 20 years. And now, they have produced fruit in the next generation, and they're going out and producing fruit. Missionaries have been raised up by our missionaries around the world who are going to nations that I've never been to and our missionaries have never been to, it's now the next generation. This is all ongoing fruit, my friends. Ongoing fruit from what God did pouring out of spirit. And although God used the team, and although God used many nameless and faceless people, there's still a wonderful entrustment that was made to Pastor Kilpatrick as the senior leader.

God saw he was trustworthy, so I honor and respect him for that. Again, the book, When the Heavens Are Brass. Friends, we'll be sending out details of our trip to Israel, sending out details on Monday. Make sure you're getting my emails. Go to AskDrBrown.org. AskDrBrown.org. Make sure you sign up for our emails today, and we've got a bunch of special announcements to send your way. AskDrBrown.org. Get these emails today. All right, we'll be back on YouTube. Ask Dr. Brown, A.S.K. Dear Brown, on YouTube in 15 minutes.