Author and Caregiver Mark Negley Discusses Resuming Life After Wife's Suicide

Welcome to Hope for the Caregiver, this is Peter Rosenberger.

This is the show for you as a family caregiver. More than 65 million Americans right now are caring for a chronically impaired loved one. Now it could be something such as Alzheimer's, it could be something such as autism, or you could be caring for a family member who has an addiction issue.

Lots of different impairments. Mental illness, to trauma, to disease, all kinds of different things happen, but there's always a caregiver. How do you help the caregiver? What does it look like to help the caregiver? Why should you help the caregiver? If the caregiver goes down, what happens to the loved one? And that's where we step in on this show to help strengthen those who are taking care of somebody who is not strong, somebody who is struggling. Helping you stay healthy as you take care of someone who is not. And healthy caregivers make better caregivers. There's more at hopeforthecaregiver.com if you want to learn more about the show and see our older episodes and our podcast, which is free. And we'd love to have you participate in all that we're offering here because this issue affects all of us. If you love somebody, you will be a caregiver.

If you live long enough, you will need one. And this is our journey. I'm bringing 35 years of experience as a caregiver and counting to the table. And most of what I've learned, I've learned through brutal failure. I am the Wile E. Coyote of caregivers. And I have chased after many a tunnel that was drawn on a cave wall. I go back and look at all the anvils that fell on Wile E. Coyote and I think, that's me. And I get the journey. But I've also seen God's faithfulness and provision and his precepts in this in ways that I did not expect. And for a long time, I thought the issue was, okay, caregiving the task of being a caregiver.

How do we deal with this particular problem with this doctor or this type of diagnosis or this type of procedure? And those are important things. But once you got it, you got it. You don't have to be retrained on that. You got it. Okay, I know how to do that.

I know how to give an injection. And I found over the years that the problem for caregivers lies in our hearts, not in the task, in our hearts, because our hearts are a train wreck. And if our hearts are a train wreck, guess what happens to our wallets, our relationships, our jobs, our careers, all that's involved. And so that's where we spend a lot of time on this show. I'm also looking for interesting guests to come along who have journeyed in this world and they have experienced things that I think are going to be helpful to us as caregivers to glean from, to learn from. And they come out with their own scars, their own wounds, but they've walked through some healing and some, and some growth personally.

And now they're taking it to extend to others. And one of those is my guest here today. His name is Mark Negley and he's got a new book out called Survive Alive, Thrive. I just, Survive Alive, Thrive. And what does this mean to us as caregivers?

What can we learn from this? And you'll hear a lot of your own journey in Mark's story. And I want to welcome you to the show. So Mark, thank you for being here with us today. Peter, it's my pleasure.

Thanks for having me on. Tell us a little bit about your background. Before you wrote this book, where did you find yourself in this journey that we have as caregivers? And a lot of folks are going to, their ears are going to perk up because you've experienced some things that we hit on in this show a lot, but a lot of people don't necessarily talk about this in the caregiving world. You did it. Talk about your journey.

Sure, I'd be happy to. You know, what's interesting, Peter, is the oldest book in the Bible is Job. And, you know, we all know Joe's story. And in my case, the idea that suffering is unique to my story is no more true than the folks that are listening who are going through suffering or caretaking for others who are struggling. This is part of our human existence, right? And it's given me some perspective as I've reflected on my journey. You know, you've asked specifically some of the things that I've experienced. I had a phone call in 2010 as my wife was being taken in a high speed in an ambulance to a hospital from the paramedic in the ambulance who called me at work and said, listen, it's been a serious car accident and we think she's going to live, but you need to get to the hospital quickly.

You know, nothing really prepares a person for that phone call, right? You're sitting at work and focused on a task and suddenly your world is turned upside down. And in this particular case, my wife Victoria did live through the accident but had substantive neurological trauma and issues in her neck and head and upper body that began, you know, a long journey of pain and struggle for her that took me out of my rhythms in life and thrust me into the role of caretaking for her as the pain was not, we couldn't address it neurologically and ended up watching her fall into a depression and then a deep depression and struggle with being able to differentiate between, you know, reality and paranoid delusions. And it was a heartbreaking process, you know, one of the folks who works with me in the nonprofit organization that I'm involved with having founded it recently said, you know, grief and brokenness and caretaking applies certainly is not an individual game, it's a team sport. And, you know, those folks that go through this stuff, you know, they know it all too well, right? Sometimes it's full contact, a team sport. So true.

And we don't get helmets and pads with it. And, you know, folks think, well, it just affects that person or maybe one other, you know, I read a statistic recently that said that the average suicide, for example, impacts five to 10 people directly in their, in their circle, and that is a direct traumatic impact, not the far reaching impact. So, you know, when we are involved in these sorts of challenges, it involves all of us, and all those that love and care for the person struggling. And, you know, of course, the interesting question that is, so, which you posed is, so as I was caretaking for my wife during that four year period of time, you know, who was helping me or what support was I seeking out that that's part of what I'm doing, but my story continues in the context that in 2015, I got called into a doctor after some tests, and he looked at me and said, look, no way to sugarcoat this, you have cancer.

And we have to take action quickly to assure that it's either not metastasized or we shorten that timeframe and presented me with a bunch of options. So, at this point, I'm struggling with the potential loss, and to hear a doctor say we don't think this is going to kill you if we get after it quickly is another groundbreaking moment and well prior to that my son, Anderson, who is today 24, at three years old would diagnosed with significant learning disabilities, and on the autism spectrum but able to, you know, a bright guy but unable to read or numbers are particularly difficult so regular school was not an option. So we engaged in the process of looking for private school and specialty options along those lines and midway through that process, my mother in law had a emotional, a break, and went into a mental health facility and we. My wife and I brought her to our home for two or three years to nurse her back to emotional health. So, yeah, I mean I've been through, you know, some, some tough experiences and then ultimately.

The biggest blow of all was in 2016 when Victoria went off of a medication and six weeks later, took her life. And from that point forward picking up the pieces with my son, this was the next step. Well, and that's what brings us to why you're on today but but I wanted people to understand the background you had the frame from where you speak, your authority in this area, which is strong and Mark, you know, I can just hear that painful journey we're going to take a quick break. We're going to be right back and I want you to take us deeper into this this is hope for the caregiver This is Peter Rosenberg Hope for the caregiver.

This is Peter Rosenberg. This is the show for you as a family caregiver and he does know the plans that he has for you. That's my wife, Gracie from her CD resilient and you can find out how to get a copy of that at hope for the caregiver. Hope for the caregiver.com we're talking with Mark Negley, who's bringing a very, very difficult journey to us today, but things that he's learned through this process and it's in his new book survive alive, thrive, and his world was already dealing with some challenges when he had a son that was diagnosed being on the spectrum. He's had stuff brushes with this with other family members, but then this accident of his wife took him into a much different place. And one that ultimately had a very sad outcome when she went off of her meds and then she took her own life and into that world Mark is taking readers and us today into.

Okay. What did I learn through this? What what am I learning through this and where can I go with this and then how can I extend this to others who are in that same place?

There's a stat out there. There's twenty-two vets a day who are taking their lives and we're going to have later on the show a down the road here a show with a guy that I met here who's riding his bike across the country who's a police officer who's raising awareness for police officers who've taken their own lives and it's it's it's an extraordinary complex. Event that happens that if as Mark just said it affects five on average five people profoundly not just cursory like oh, that's really sad. No, I'm talking about profoundly affecting people and how do we walk through this?

How do we hang on to God's provision of faithfulness into so Mark before I get into some more of the meat of this. Let me ask you a quick question that your wife was traumatized and there was neurological trauma after her wreck that resulted in was it some type of mental impairment or something? What's going on with it? What was the diagnosis with that? Yeah, it's a good question and you know, it's so interesting that Peter is that diagnosing neurological damage particularly in the head neck and other related areas is extraordinarily complex. Even the most renowned neurologists that you find will tell you that it's it can be really difficult to pinpoint the cause of it.

And I mean, you've heard of people that on a less significant or traumatic level have numbness in their hands that they track to a nerve in the neck. And there's it's complicated in Victoria's case. She had a hit a landscape truck, one of those big old trucks hauling mowers in the back over 40 miles an hour. And if it wasn't for the SUV she was driving. And even the condition of the SUV made it hard to believe that she had survived it. So when I arrived at the hospital, I was shocked that it was really not as physically, intensely visible as I thought, you know, black eyes and swollen and broken nose and things. But the point is that the hidden damage was what she would refer to as this hidden neurological feeling that she had that she referred to sometimes as a waterfall effect, which felt like water was streaming through and down her face. But it wasn't visible, she would get pain from that experience.

So that would track down the back of her head into her neck and so forth. And we went to see many neurologists and, you know, some, you know, can make the matter worse by saying, Well, we don't see anything. So it must be in your head, which creates a sense of confusion and frustration for the person going through In a case like that, Mark, when they say it must be in your head, you say, Yeah, we're right. You're right. It is in her head. That's why we came to you.

Figure it out, buddy. You know, but that's, that's because I have a smart mouth. And I have to restrain myself on that sometimes.

So sorry about that. But you know, but no, and tragically funny and true. And, you know, in this case, we, you know, there was many times where we had those types of conversations. And ultimately, when you battle pain, in fact, the old adage from World War Two was the water torture that Asians would, you know, conduct of just dripping a little bit of water in someone's forehead.

As they were trapped down, it would cause folks to lose some of their emotional and, and mental health grip on reality. And in our case, I was our son was graduating middle school and on his way to high school, when I received a phone call from my wife as I was going to the school to drop off gifts before his graduation. And she called in a panic and revealed to me that she was convinced that the FBI was waiting for us at that waiting for me at the middle school to arrest me. And at first, I thought it was a joke.

But it wasn't. And she had, at that point, lost her struggle with something that I didn't really understand how, how difficult of a struggle it was for her internally. And she plainly revealed that in this delusional, paranoid fear that I would be arrested and paraded through the streets for some reason, and I realized, okay, we need professional help. And we did receive professional help.

And we received, you know, a lot of support from our church and pastors who had some experience with family members themselves. But the reality is that when you're the person responsible for taking care of somebody who's going through something that you might not be able to understand yourself, it takes patience and love that transcends what most people expect when they sign up for that kind of relationship, right? I mean, when you say that you're with somebody no matter what, sometimes that no matter what is so much more intense and challenging than you could imagine.

It gets pretty gnarly, doesn't it? Oh, you just got to lean on God. And there's, there's a number of techniques and strategies that I talk about in survival life throughout, but the, but the bottom line is, it's hard. And there's nobody who knows that more than your listeners who have been through it or going through it right now. And nobody knows it more than you. That's the reason we have you on the show here, because this is how we get stronger. We listen to each other's stories so that we're not just scrambling around in this in the dark and in isolation.

I want to take you back to something. When you have a scene disability, it's, you know, you can, you can wrap your mind around something. For example, in my wife's case, both of her legs are gone. Okay, I get that. I'm not going to argue with amputation. It's there. I can see it. She doesn't have her legs anymore.

And so, you know, I would not ask her to do something that somebody without legs, couldn't do, you know, but but when you have an unseen disability where there's a mental illness involved, or there's, there's a behavior modification going on because of drugs or because of neurological damage, things such as that chronic pain. That's a much different thing because you can't see it. Therefore, you're thinking that somehow they can snap out of it. But that's not the case, is it? Well, that is so true, man.

And I'm glad you brought that up. Because, you know, this invisible enemy that we fight is so much more difficult than something that is more clear cut and evident. And not that any of these challenges are easy, but you know, you find yourself, I found myself struggling with not getting angry. And I can remember many conversations with Victoria that we were very, I had to be very clear that this frustration I was experiencing was not with her.

It was the frustration with her illness. It was this frustration that I didn't feel like somehow I could battle it. I mean, it's kind of like, let me, you know, let me take something on head on.

This is crafty and challenging and nuanced. And it's really, boy, it drives you to a point where you know that you have to rely on, you know, God and your faith. Because you know the right thing to do. And that is to be patient and show grace, the same grace that we get every day from our God, but show grace not only to the person that desperately needs it, who's, you know, looking for strength and support from someone they trust and love and need so desperately. But you need to show grace to yourself, right? I mean, there's times like, why can't I fix this? And the answer is some things you can't fix. Just being present and loving is the most important act that you can share. And that doesn't feel like enough to us.

We want to somehow, you know, say the right thing or come up with that right argument or do something. And I was recently on the show, we were talking about an event that happened with me when Gracie coded one time in the hospital. And I was just sitting there. I was normally just doing all kinds of tasks and being on the phone and doing business stuff and whatever. But I was just sitting there.

I wasn't doing anything. And I looked over and she was blue and I was able to get all the people in there, get the hospital, we got it all fixed and she saved her life. But if I had been busy doing something, you know, some kind of activity, I would have probably missed that and she'd be dead and all this would have been for naught.

And I realized at that point to not doubt the power of inactivity, of learning to just be in the moment. You know, these are things, and I'm going to unpack this in our next segment here, that we're going to do because I think that being present is one of the hardest things that we have to do as caregivers because we desperately want to try to bring solutions. But as I tell myself and fellow caregivers, hey, look down at your hands. If you don't see nail prints, this ain't yours to fix. And that is a hard thing for us to wrap because we're wired to somehow fix. But you can't fix these things.

There's some things that are just not going to be fixed this side of heaven. No matter how much I want to, I can't take away this pain that my wife lives with. You couldn't take away your wife's pain. You couldn't.

You could even get some of the doctors to even acknowledge that she was broken. And, you know, and those are frustrating things for us as caregivers. And we turn ourselves into all kinds of human pretzels trying to somehow work through that. And we can't.

And there's a surrender point that comes. We're going to take go a little bit deeper in this, Mark, in the next segment. This is Peter Rosenberger. We're talking with Mark Negley.

His new book is Survive Alive, Thrive. And you're not going to want to miss this next segment. We're going to we're going to go deeper. We'll be right back.

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This is Peter Rosenberg. This is the show for you as a family caregiver. That song. I love that song. It's one of my favorite songs, one of my favorite records.

Imperials did many, many years ago. I'm forgiven. Now I have a reason for living.

And yes, my southern accent comes through on that. But understand that in the context of what we're talking about, once we understand our relationship with God, that we are forgiven, that we are redeemed, that this is not the end of the story, then that equips us to go into these very, very painful circumstances that we deal with as caregivers. With that shining hope of the gospel, knowing that he who began a good work in us is faithful to complete it to the day of Christ Jesus.

That's the whole point. And if we are so taught on our own misery, on our own dysfunction, how in the world can we engage with others? And if others don't respond in the way we would want them to, and we're not assured of God's redeeming work in our lives, then that will take us down as well. And we can grieve over things that don't have the outcome that we want to have, not because of something we've done, but we can grieve of that in a healthy manner without having to be in despair over it, knowing that, OK, this person has a savior.

I am not that savior. And it's really important as caregivers that we grab a hold of that because we can't fix this. And we're talking with Mark Negley on his new book, Survive Alive, Thrive, and who ran head long into a situation that he could not fix. And it stayed broken and it even had an even more heartbreaking ending to it. Mark, take us to that point where it did not have the ending that you wanted. There was no place where your wife was able to live a productive, quality life through this thing.

She went into a very dark place because of all the injuries that had happened to her. Talk about that a little bit. I know it's painful. But there are people out there right now who are listening to this who are themselves dealing with this kind of pain. And you can offer a lifeline into that for them to stand on.

So take us into that if you don't mind. Yeah, and I want to say it's important that in sharing these stories, it's my intent to honor my wife Victoria and the life that she lived and the joy and wonder that she provided those that she knew as well as our son and me for over 20 years. And the story in this case, it was after two years of struggling with the auto accident in 2010. In 2012, she went down this dark road and had a psychological break. The next two years, from 12 to 14, I actually had a legal responsibility that had been provided by the doctors. And I was able to help support her, not just emotionally and spiritually with prayer and so forth, but I was also able to make sure that her visits with physicians and psychologists and get treatments, which is, I mean, for those of us who have been through this in the mental health arena, I mean, it is a crazy roller coaster and in some cases a nightmare.

The insurance doesn't want to cooperate. Different medications impact different people differently. So the same pill that works on Joe doesn't work on Jill.

And so you go through effectively experimentation to try to find a medication, a mix that works for that individual. And finally, after two years, Victoria started feeling much more like herself. I'd say we got her back at 80%, and she really spent that time focusing on prayer and helping others to reach out of her own struggles. And along that line, we thought things were turning the corner, and I thought, boy, after effectively four years of this, things are, we have a chance that the worst is behind us, but a little secret that people who have caretaking responsibilities for folks with mental health and emotional issues know is that there's this struggle for those who are going through it themselves that you're caretaking for, that once they take medication and they feel better, or they start to feel better, they think, oh, gosh, now I don't need medication. And then they go back down the roller coaster and then they have to get back on it. And that up and down cycle is super difficult for everybody, particularly the person going through it. But boy, as a caretaker, you get somewhat, you're somewhat helpless in that case because it's really doctor patient.

It's very disorienting. And we're solid ground for you as a caregiver. Well, for Peter, ultimately what happened is that four weeks or so before our son was set to graduate high school, we had a big party to celebrate the fact that he actually was going to college and had overcome so much through his mental health issues. She decided she was going to go off on medication to lose weight because she felt medication was putting weight on, which it does.

And I couldn't stop it. And ultimately she spiraled and three days after his graduation, with him home from high school getting ready to go to college, came home to find out that she had taken her life in the midst of the emotional and physical pain that had returned. And it was obviously a devastating, traumatic experience to come home. My son had gone out on a training run and a scholarship to run cross-country in college and he'd come back thinking his mother wasn't home.

And I came home from running errands and going out and hitting some golf balls and arrived home into her garage and found that she had taken her life and our world would never be the same. I don't have the words, I really don't, to that kind of anguish that you and your son have endured. I can say with confidence that there are people listening to this show who have journeyed down that path and they are so rocked by this. And people don't know what to say to that. And I would ask you to speak to those people now that, OK, this is beyond the pale.

Here's what I've learned through this and here's what helped me get back to solid ground. What would you say to those folks? Because a lot of these people are dealing with this in isolation and even church folk will come up and say, well, you know, God's in control or God's sovereign or whatever. You know, they'll say things that make sense to them, but doesn't penetrate into the anguish of you and your son. And you've had to learn that the hard way. You've had to go through that, but you've come, you've not, I don't want to say you've come through it. You've learned to appropriate the faithfulness of God in this in a way that you would have never done before. And other folks are desperate to find solid ground in this.

Speak to that a little bit, Mark. Well, the idea behind Survive a Live Thrive is it's three different stages of the grief recovery journey. And the first stage, which is Survive, means literally path. I mean, most folks who have been through tough stuff like this, you know, understand that immediately following this type of event, you're just hanging on and trying to get from one moment or one day to the next. And at that time, you know, for me, it was early morning walks, praying and crying and walking and running. And, you know, literally in the pre-dawn midnight, you know, 4 a.m. darkness in suburban Connecticut, just trying to get answers and ask God to walk with me. And he answered me that he was greater than that, greater than anything that I was going through, greater than the cancer I'd experienced, greater than the learning disabilities my son had, and certainly greater than the depression and eventually the suicide that my wife had, because he was so great that he had forgiven her and loved her and was holding her.

And, you know, there's a song, a well-known song that became a movie, which is I Can Only Imagine. And that song by Bart Millard and Mercy Me, you know, articulates this idea that when we leave this world and we arrive face-to-face with Christ, that we can only imagine what that would be like. And the lyrics are, you know, will I be able to speak at all? Will I stand on my knees?

Or will I stand and will I fall to my knees? It's this imagery that is effectively the most wonderful, amazing, healing moment in all of our life experiences. And it's so easy to think about that in the context of your own journey. But I found great strength in imagining that despite the great pain and trauma and brokenness that I was experiencing, that in fact at that moment I could argue that, and I could envision, that Victoria was embraced by God by the love and grace of Christ, and now at this moment, at this moment, she was healed in ways that I can only imagine. And that was what I had to hold onto and embrace as I was going through that survive stage. And then the next stage, of course, is how do we start healing and moving forward and helping others in this process? So that was my personal experience following unexplainable loss and brokenness.

I listen to what you say here, and a lot of people would take theological issues, because some people just like to argue, you know, that suicide is this unforgivable sin, or ba-da-da-da. Your wife was broken. This was not something that she was going to do through a normal course of her life.

This wreck and this trauma and all these things, these are things that she was broken. And this is a disease taking a hold of someone in a way that is so devastating. And I'm not a medical doctor. I'm not a pastor.

I have great hair, but I'm not a preacher. So I'm not going to sit there and rest on any kind of professional authority on this. But I can tell you, I have seen the evidence of trauma and the evidence of brokenness and mental illness and disease. When people want to come up and heap more judgment on a family like that, it's cruel. It's cruel because they don't understand the nature of disease and trauma and brokenness.

But you know what? We have a Savior that does. We do have a Savior that understands that. Have you ever struggled to trust God when lousy things happen to you?

I have. I'm Gracie Rosenberger, and in 1983, I experienced a horrific car accident leading to 80 surgeries and both legs amputated. I questioned why God allowed something so brutal to happen to me.

But over time, my questions changed and I discovered courage to trust God. That understanding, along with an appreciation for quality prosthetic limbs, led me to establish Standing with Hope. For more than a dozen years, we've been working with the government of Ghana and West Africa, equipping and training local workers to build and maintain quality prosthetic limbs for their own people. On a regular basis, we purchase and ship equipment and supplies.

And with the help of inmates in a Tennessee prison, we also recycle parts from donated limbs. All of this is to point others to Christ, the source of my hope and strength. Please visit standingwithhope.com to learn more and participate in lifting others up. That's standingwithhope.com. I'm Gracie, and I am standing with hope. Welcome back to Hope for the Caregiver.

This is Peter Rosenberger. This is the show for you as a family caregiver. And now we come to the part where we've gone through these very difficult conversations with Mark over the journey he's had with losing his wife, this terrible wreck that led to these awful consequences. But now, as that song says, the joy of the Lord is my strength. Now, it's important for us as caregivers to understand that the pursuit of our life cannot be happiness.

If it is, that's elusive and temporary, and it's often circumstantial. But the joy of the Lord is different. You know, the joy of the Lord is something that is solid to hold on to, knowing that even through tears, we have His strength and the joy that comes with it, knowing that this is not the end of the story and that there is life to be lived and live abundantly, even in the midst of this broken world.

And I think that's why I love that song that Gracie and Russ Taft sing on that. And Mark, take us now to the thrive. You survived it. You did. You survived it. Against all odds, in some respects, but you did it.

And you and your son. And you're alive, and you're thriving. And take us to that place now and offer that same joy that you depend upon to listeners today. Well, in the surviving stage, as I mentioned, it was just depending on God and trusting that His greatness was so much greater than anything I was experiencing. And that led me to testify in Victoria's Eulogy that God was greater and we weren't going to let the events that we'd all suffered further victimize us and shame us or guilt us. And following that, I received so many phone calls and text messages and emails of people saying literally, thank you for testifying to the grace of God through Christ in any circumstance. And that encouraged me and I started digging deeper into the grief recovery process and discovered a new way to blend, effectively, clinical and tactical ways to rebuild your heart and your spiritual self while at the same time leaning on God and counting on Him in this process. And that's what led this whole initiative. I sought counseling from a Christian counselor to talk about it.

You mentioned something a little earlier. You know there's a psychologist at UCLA, a guy named Dan Siegel, who's pioneered this research that shows that when you share your story with somebody who cares, that you actually experience healing just from sharing. So I started sharing.

Oh, absolutely. And that sharing process doesn't mean that I'm getting good advice. It's just the act of sharing with someone who cares. So along that line, that led me to start hosting grief groups. I started researching and I've interviewed hundreds of people who have gone through stuff, losing children and parents and siblings in different ways or struggling with mental health issues or supporting somebody with a terminal illness and so forth.

And it's actually been incredibly encouraging. And along that way, my son and I, in 2018, two years later, relocated into the Nashville area. And as God would have it, I was blessed to meet this extraordinary woman who had also relocated into Nashville at the time.

It's a care tape for her parents. And it turns out she's a Ph.D. in preventative health and nutrition and exercise and also a board-certified nurse practitioner in the psych and mental health area. And she and I started talking about the mission and what I was involved with.

And you know what? We fell in love. And a year later, we got engaged. And Malin, my partner and wife, and I just celebrated our one-year anniversary. And our son is doing well.

He's working and finding his way and really starting to open his healing process by sharing some of the things that he's kept to himself over the last couple of years. And I'm just going to say that for you out there who are going through this, who are experiencing the trauma of loss, or you've done so in the past, or you're about to, I promise you that there is hope that you can find a way to not only live a happy life, which I completely agree with Peter, is such a temporal conditional dynamic, but joy. And one of the really interesting things, Rick Warren's wife said, Joy is the state of mind where you have happiness regardless of what happens.

It transcends the world. And part of that is giving back, and giving back in a way that not only helps others, but helps you. And a great example of this is a quote from Billy Graham. And in one of his devotionals under the hills, he says that the sufferer becomes the comforter in the service of the Lord. And effectively he's saying that Christ modeled suffering, and now in our brokenness we turn to him for comfort. And he's saying, Graham's quote is saying, is scripturally 1 Corinthians, is like, look, when you have suffered, now you have an opportunity to help others by sharing. You'll experience healing yourself, and you'll help somebody get through their brokenness, and you'll be serving God in that process. I mean, what a remarkable example and model that God showed for us, and gives us the ability. And I can say, I have a reluctant platform, having gone through what I've been through.

It's not the journey I would have written up, it's not what I would have planned. But here we are, and ultimately you trust him, you know that he's greater than anything that you can go through in the world, and you can find this joy in your life if you trust him and give it a chance. Just don't give up, and move yourself through the process with the company of God as somebody who will never leave you or forsake you. And then, with a community of others who are there to support you and love you, understand what you're going through.

You are not alone, and you can make it through, I promise. Indeed. You know, I love that verse in Corinthians. Comfort one another with the same comfort that you yourself have received from the God of all comfort. And there is that unusual event that happens that when we just share the story, when we spend time with other folks, we weep with those who weep, we mourn with those who mourn, it strengthens us along the journey as well. And we start to see God's provision moving, knowing that there are things in this broken, fallen world that we will not see redeemed until we get into heaven.

We won't see that. But I'm reminded of a story, you know who Fanny Crosby is. She's one of the greatest hymn writers of all time, maybe the greatest. And they said, well, how can you write these wonderful hymns when you're blind? You know, God has let you be blind, and you're writing these hymns. And she wrote things like, blessed assurance, and to God be the glory, great things he has done.

And she said, oh no, you don't understand. The next face that I see will be the face of Jesus. And I thought, what an extraordinary statement. And I think that's the thing we all have as believers, knowing that there is that anticipation that this will be made right. And we trust him in the meantime.

And how do we know we can trust him? Because he stretched out his arms and gave his life for us on the cross. It always comes back to the cross. And if we understand more of the cross, then that will strengthen us as we deal with the things in this world that are so broken. And that's our journey. That's our invitation to travel with Christ on this. And we're talking with Mark Negley, who wrote this book, wonderful book, Survive Alive Thrive.

And Mark, I want you to know how much I appreciate you spending time with us. And you've opened up your soul. Again, this is an unsolicited platform that you have. I get that.

A reluctant platform, as you said. But you are compelled to share. Because once we've experienced that growth, part of our own journey as believers is we are compelled to offer that which we ourselves have received and seen and witnessed.

And you've witnessed this comfort. And I'm so grateful for what you've done today. If people want to find out more about you, where do they go? Well, please go to our nonprofit website, which is SurviveAliveThrive.org. And there's community and opportunities to reach out to me and share your story or get support. My wife and partner, Dr. Moen Galbraith, takes questions and advice on how to caretake for yourself, particularly as a caregiver. And I would just say, listen, here's the one thing.

It's not just me saying or you saying, this is going to work out. In Matthew 5, Jesus himself in the Sermon on the Mount, verse 3 said, Blessed are those that mourn, for they will be comforted. And that doesn't mean just blessed are those who are feeling bad and down and struggling. It means, blessed are those who turn to me with their loss and their brokenness, for they will be comforted.

That's the flag that you planted in today's show. Blessed are those who turn to Christ. That's what he's saying, that you will be comforted. Well, Mark, I'll tell you what, you've been just a real blessing today, and I know that what you're doing is, there are many tears in this journey that you've had, you and your son both. But I also see that God is weaving in this something extraordinary. He does not willingly afflict the sons of men, it says in Lamentations, who he calls his grief, he also has great compassion. And a friend of mine said he reaches into the most horrific circumstances and pulls out something extraordinary.

I don't know how he does it, I don't know why he does it, I just know that I'm grateful that he has done it, and he's done it in your life. This is Martin Egley, his new book, Survive Alive Thrive, wherever books are sold. And this is hope for the caregiver. And we hope you've been strengthened by today, we hope you've been encouraged by today, we hope we left you better than we found you.

Healthy caregivers make better caregivers, and it's really okay for you to be healthy. Mark, thanks for being with us today, we'll see you all next time. My privilege, thank you Peter. Some of you know the remarkable story of Peter's wife Gracie, and recently Peter talked to Gracie about all the wonderful things that have emerged from her difficult journey. Take a listen. Gracie, when you envisioned doing a prosthetic limb outreach, did you ever think that inmates would help you do that?

Not in a million years. When you go to the facility run by CoreCivic and you see the faces of these inmates that are working on prosthetic limbs that you have helped collect from all over the country, that you put out the plea for, and they're disassembling. You see all these legs, like what you have, your own prosthetic legs. And arms, everything.

And arms. When you see all this, what does that do to you? Makes me cry, because I see the smiles on their faces, and I know, I know what it is to be locked someplace where you can't get out without somebody else allowing you to get out. Of course, being in the hospital so much and so long.

And so, these men are so glad that they get to be doing, as one band said, something good finally with my hands. Did you know before you became an amputee that parts of prosthetic limbs could be recycled? No, I had no idea. You know, I thought of peg leg. I thought of wooden legs. I never thought of titanium and carbon legs and flex feet and sea legs and all that. I never thought about that. As you watch these inmates participate in something like this, knowing that they're helping other people now walk, they're providing the means for these supplies to get over there.

What does that do to you, just on a heart level? I wish I could explain to the world what I see in there. And I wish that I could be able to go and say, this guy right here, he needs to go to Africa with us. I never not feel that way.

Every time, you know, you always make me have to leave, I don't want to leave them. I feel like I'm at home with them and I feel like that we have a common bond that I would have never expected that only God could put together. Now that you've had an experience with it, what do you think of the faith-based programs that CoreCivic offers? I think they're just absolutely awesome. And I think every prison out there should have faith-based programs like this because the return rate of the men that are involved in this particular faith-based program, and the other ones like it, but I know about this one, is just an amazingly low rate compared to those who don't have them. And I think that that says so much.

That doesn't have anything to do with me. It just has something to do with God using somebody broken to help other broken people. If people want to donate a used prosthetic limbs, whether from a loved one who passed away or, you know, somebody who outgrew them, you've donated some of your own for them to do. How do they do that? Oh, please go to standingwithhope.com slash recycle. Standingwithhope.com slash recycle. Thanks, Gracie.