PGA Tour/LIV Golf To Merge (Hour 1)

Live from the play show, yet not overly ostentatious, studios of CBS Sports Radio here in beautiful New York City, sitting on top of the 10th floor of 345 Hudson Street. Welcome on in to a Tuesday edition of the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio across all of our great CBS Sports Radio affiliates, Sirius XM, Channel 158, and that free Odyssey app.

You can always get at me on Instagram where I'm straight flexing or via the good ol' cesspool of Twitter, at Zach Gelb. We've got three guests for you today coming up 20 minutes from now. Steve Sands from the Golf Channel will stop by. Chris Dempsey will join us who is an analyst for the Denver Nuggets via Altitude Sports at 7.20pm Eastern, 4.20pm Pacific, and then senior writer for Golf Digest Alex Myers will stop by at 8.20pm Eastern, 5.20pm Pacific, if you were just waking up and you're like, why are we having two golf guests on today? Well, you're in for a doozy of a show. And no, the U.S. Open is not this weekend, so it is not a preview for golf's third major.

But producing our fine extravaganza first and foremost for the next four hours is no other than Hot Take Hickey. DP World Tour agreed to a business merger to Unify Golf, also known as the PGA Tour finally taking the Saudi money. I was shocked. I think everyone was shocked.

Like, no bleep, Sherlock, right? At first, I looked at the tweet and I thought the tweet, especially in this new era of Twitter, was a parody account. Someone got duped by another account. And then like wildfire, it just started to spread where all of a sudden it was, oh, this isn't a joke. Oh, this isn't fake news that this is reality that now you're going to have the PGA Tour. And the DP World Tour agreeing to come together with live golf to unify the game. And my first thought, once I realized that this wasn't fake and this wasn't April 1st and this wasn't a joke, is that Jay Monahan, the commissioner of the PGA, is just an absolute fraud.

He is the ultimate do what I say, not what I do guy. That is Jay Monahan because for the last year plus, he has chastised any golfer that elected to take, quote unquote, blood money to go join live golf. And he would plea to the golfers on the PGA Tour to stay. And I know a lot of big names left took the money and elected to go to live golf. But also, there were several other golfers that elected to trust Jay Monahan and stay on the PGA Tour to do the, and I say this in air quotes, right thing. But Jay Monahan today comes off as an enormous hypocrite and an enormous fraud because when the money was thrown his way and when the PGA Tour could get a piece of the pie, they not only took it with no shame, they took it and then they're trying to justify their actions today. And I'll go back to almost a year ago when Jim Nance is interviewing Jay Monahan and they're talking about what do you say to the families that lost loved ones on 9-11 to the people that are thinking about taking the money to join live golf, the golfers. And he said, have you ever had to apologize for being a member of the PGA Tour? And now that same guy almost a year later is saying, for me, you take the information you have at the time and make decisions in the best interest. Things have changed. This was the right time to have this conversation.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, bleep. That is what that is from Jay Monahan. And I know they just had a meeting with Jay Monahan and some of the golfers that are participating in the Canadian Open. But if I am a golfer in that meeting, I'm booing Jay Monahan and I'm asking for him to resign. Because I wonder how many of those golfers had offers on the table from live golf and said, no, I'm not going to do it.

I'm going to trust Jay. And now, whether it's a Brooks Koepka or a Dustin Johnson or Phil Mickelson, those guys that took the money and many others, they look like winners here because they got the money. And now, inevitably, they're going to come on back and get their PGA Tour card back. And if I'm one of those golfers, I keep on hearing about this unlimited money, right? Well, I want my cut now if I stayed on the PGA Tour. But for Jay Monahan, he is in the news big time today. He deserves to get blasted today. And I wonder, the golfers on the PGA Tour, are they going to be able to move forward with him as the commissioner? And it wouldn't shock me.

At some point, at a to be determined date, he ends up mutually agreeing to part ways. But he already got his. But it's just so hypocritical. And I said this from the start. I understand what the moral dilemma here. But I understand that for most people, it would have been hypocritical for me to get on the radio to say if someone offered me that amount of life changing money, no matter how much money I've made in the past, that I wouldn't have taken it. But when you are Jay Monahan, it's completely different. Like the golfers that originally took the money, I don't really blast them.

I haven't done that. But for Jay Monahan, who is telling golfers to stay and messing with other people's money and having them reject big time money. For him today to take that money and now everyone merged together, Jay Monahan is just a hypocritical disgrace.

That's what he is. But even though this is surprising today, it really shouldn't be surprising because this is what always happens. Everyone ultimately has a price. And no matter how you bitch and how you complain and what you have said before, you could always go back on your word. And that's what's happened here with Jay Monahan.

And really, the real lesson here is if you're a golfer and you could use this for many other people as well, you got to kind of operate what's in the best interest of yourself. Because look at this a year ago, when golfers elected to leave, they were blasted. They were destroyed. But now, a year later, those guys look like the biggest geniuses in the world. They got their money. And now they're going to basically come on back as if nothing ever happened.

And here's the part of me. I know what the answer is on why this happened today. It's because of money. It's because the Saudis are going to fund this.

We all know that. We're not like breaking news to you. So it's all about the money. But I did read in one of the ESPN articles that was out there today, a PGA Tour player said the live tour was dead in the water. It wasn't working. Now you're throwing them a life jacket.

Is this the moral of the story to just always take the money? And that was thrown out there. And he's not wrong, whoever the golfer was. Yeah, the live tour wasn't succeeding. The live tour wasn't working. We were talking about the ratings. We were talking about how much out of sight, out of mind it was when it was talked about at the Masters and the PGA Championship. The feeling was totally different a year later because live golf, at least here in America, was so irrelevant.

No one was talking about it outside of when those golfers would come and participate in the major championships. So we know that money is the answer here. But it's just I don't want to say bizarre. But once again, the word I keep on going back to is hypocritical that Jay Monahan was waving that flag and he was talking down to anybody. Like if you were an elementary school student that talked back to a teacher, he was like waving the ruler in your face and pointing his finger, wagging his finger. How dare you? Don't do this. Don't do that.

This is how you should be raised. And the moment it came his way, very secretively, it was hush hush. Let's not tell the golfers till today.

And away you go. Now you wonder who knew what and how many people knew what. And that's fair to speculate.

Like it is weird to me. And I'll say bizarre here, bizarre to me that Rory McIlroy, who I didn't always like Rory McIlroy. Remember, I'm a Tiger Woods fan. And Rory McIlroy was starting to really make a dent in the sport. If you were a Tiger fan where Tiger was having his own issues, obviously, that were honest, you know, was self-inflicted. And Rory was winning, winning, winning, winning.

And because I grew up a Tiger fan, like I was jealous. I just wanted to root against Rory McIlroy because he was now becoming the guy. But Rory, the last year, I liked that he embraced carrying the PGA Tour flag and going after the live golfers. And I thought you could have like a good rivalry between the live guys and the PGA Tour guys. But the last few months, whether it was playing a practice round nine holes at Augusta with Brooks Koepka or a few weeks ago at the PGA Championship at Oak Hill, basically not talking anymore about live golf.

I just like I do the math there. I wonder what Rory McIlroy knew and did not know. And then reportedly, he didn't know, blah, blah, blah.

But that's tough for me to buy. Because he was so outspoken, he was so loquacious against live golf. And then it was kind of like, hush, hush. He shied away from from being that guy that was the face of defending the guys that ended up staying.

And I just wonder, did he get tipped off from this behind the scenes or what did he actually know? So the more and more you go through this, Hickey, the word that I just keep on going back to is hypocritical because Jay Monahan is the definition of a hypocrite. And I know it's weird to have sympathy for guys that make like so much money as it is. But if that was me in that position where I was a PGA Tour golfer and I got a nice lucrative offer from live golf, I didn't take it because I believed in Jay Monahan and I trusted Jay Monahan's vision. And I was buying what he's selling.

And today he does the switcheroo, the 180 on me. I would be absolutely livid at Jay Monahan. But ultimately, money wins out. And that's the bottom line here.

And everyone has the price. And we found out what the PGA Tour and Jay Monahan's price was today. Yeah, what Jay Monahan and the tour did today was worse than anything. Phil, Brooks, DJ, Bryson DeChambeau, any guy that went to live and was raked through the coals. What Jay Monahan did today was by far 30 times worse than what any of those guys did when you talk about how, you know, when you guilt them into leaving and try to turn an entire fan base around them and guilt your own guys. And invoke tragedies, including 9-11 as reasons to shame those who go to live and to try to keep guys on your own tour. And then all of a sudden, as soon as the money is presented in your face, you do the quick turnaround and, okay, I'll take it.

Sure, no problem. It's all good here. Yeah, he's total clown. You know what it'd be like, Hickey, to kind of dumb this down for people and kind of use it to everyday kind of terms if you listen to this show? It would be as if you got a ridiculous amount of money to go work for another radio network. And I said to you, Hickey, trust me, you don't want to work for those guys.

They're awful human beings. You stay here. I'll take you under my wing. We'll get you a big promotion. We'll give you these other opportunities and you go, you know what? I'm going to believe in Zach.

I'm going to trust Zach. And then less than a year or a year later, I'm off to that same company and I'm getting that big fat payday. That's what that would be like. And that's the equivalent here to what happened today.

Or if that company ended up joining us and I ended up benefiting from it from a financial standpoint. And you're not wrong. And when you say what Phil did or Brooks did or big baby Bryson DeChambeau did, like whoever these guys were, they took the money. We've never really crushed them for taking that money.

We didn't. But when Jay Monahan sitting there saying, don't do this, don't do that, and then he does it, that's when you look like a piece of you know what? It is the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio. We'll take a break. When we come on back, Steve Stans has been around the golf world for a long time for NBC Sports and the Golf Channel. He's going to join us on the other side. You're listening to the Zach Gelb show. So we've all seen the biggest news of the day by now.

Live Golf, PGA Tour and the DP World Tour agree to a business merger to unify golf. Here to react with it right now is of course Steve Stans from the Golf Channel, NBC Sports. Sans, you appreciate the time as always. How you been? Anything for you, Zach. I'm doing great, bud. How about you?

I'm doing fantastic. So this news today was shocking. And really came out of nowhere to say the least. When you found out about it and got a few moments to process it up until now, how'd you react to it?

Oh, I was surprised, Zach. I thought that the PGA Tour would try to hang on a little longer. But I just think they got tripped up financially. I think money is the reason that this happened.

And I think that the finances just didn't add up for the PGA Tour moving forward. And that's why they're all going to merge together. And it'll be so fascinating to see how this all takes shape beginning in 2024. Will there be one league? Will there be three leagues? Who's going to run the league? What's the schedule going to look like?

What are the purses going to be? Are the live guys going to be allowed to play again on the PGA Tour immediately? Are they going to have to qualify to get back? How about the money that the guys didn't take to stay on the PGA Tour? What are they going to be paid for all this? It'll be really interesting to see what happens when all the details come out.

That was my biggest takeaway. Jay Monahan being a hypocrite, and if I was on the PGA Tour and listened to him and trusted him and didn't take the money, now it's like today, okay, I look like a loser when all these guys that ended up taking the money really ended up being winners and probably not going to really have to suffer much to end up coming on back. Yeah, it's going to be a real sticky point for Jay Monahan and the PGA Tour players as to, to use your word, quote-unquote, be a hypocrite and decide to take the money that you told everybody publicly and privately that you would never do, that you told people publicly and privately who are your constituents and the people who you work for, the players, to go defend the tour and to say how bad this is for the game and then suddenly do a 180, one year into this whole venture.

Literally, Zach, I just think you need to follow, not you personally, but we all need to just follow the money. I just think the money is the key here, and I think that with these lawsuits and with the discovery phase, probably turning up things that the PGA Tour didn't want people to see or hear about, it just, to me, it just reeks of we don't want anybody looking up Cinderella's skirt anymore than they need to. Let's go merge and get this over with. Take all the fire we're going to get from this and then try to move on as quickly as we can.

But this is not going to die anytime soon. How much longer do you think Jay Monahan will be the commissioner of the PGA Tour? It's a great question. I thought two things were really interesting, Zach, and there are a lot of things that were interesting, but two of the most interesting things to me in a statement that was released today, they don't know what the new name is going to be of this new entity. So let's just say US Airways bought American Airlines years ago.

American Airlines is the larger brand name, so they kept American Airlines as the name, even though US Airways bought American Airlines. The PGA Tour is by far, Zach, the larger brand name than the DP World Tour and Liv Golf. For them to put it in the statement today from the PGA Tour, by the way, that they're not sure what the name will be moving forward in this new entity, that is fascinating to me. And the other thing is that Jay Monahan is the commissioner of the PGA Tour. Now, unlike Goodell and Manfred and Bettman and Adam Silver, who work for the owners in hockey, baseball, football, and basketball, the PGA Tour commissioner works for the players.

It's a players league, players organization. So he had a meeting with the players today and it was contentious and he was called a hypocrite and they went back and forth. Players, I think, are going to see what Jay has to say about all this.

They did today and they will moving forward. However, Zach, he is not going to be the PGA Tour commissioner. He's going to be the CEO of this new entity. And the chairman of the board is going to be Yasser, who is the guy from Saudi Arabia who runs the PIF, the Private Investment Fund. He's going to be essentially, Zach, the most important, most powerful man in all of men's professional golf. And that's just wild to me that those two things were put in that statement today. Can the players, Steve Sands, can the golfers do anything right now to expedite Jay Monahan being removed?

Oh, for sure. If they want to make enough noise, they can certainly do that. That is not the way golf usually conducts its business. Usually golfers are not that strong-willed when it comes to these things. Again, you want to talk about the other four sports, Zach, and the PGA Tour makes it the five biggest sports in North America. If you think of it that way, they don't have a union. It's the only one of the five that doesn't have a players union. And there are a lot of people who go back and forth on whether they're pro-union or not.

And this is not an ideological debate with me and you, Zach, or your audience. But PGA Tour players, you could make a strong case that because they've never unionized, they've never had a union, they've never really gotten to look at the books, so they really haven't played for as much money as the revenue has been brought in. Well, Liv comes around, offers these guys a gajillion dollars, some of them take it, some of them stay, and all of a sudden, the purses on the PGA Tour go way up. It's as if someone at the PGA Tour found a billion dollars of loose change under the couch.

You know, that kind of thing. And, you know, push comes to shove, the PGA Tour raised its purses. Where they found the money, doesn't matter.

But clearly, that money's not adding up. Because now that they're receiving the money that they could have gotten two, three years ago from Saudi Arabia, and the people who run LivGolf, which is that PIF, that private investment fund in Saudi Arabia, they're going to be pumping in billions of dollars now into the leading tour on the PGA Tour, DP World Tour, LivGolf Tour merger, and it's just wild times in this sport. And I don't think, Zach, I don't think this is the last sport. The Saudis have dipped billions into soccer, billions into Formula One, now billions into golf, and they own a Premier League team in the biggest soccer league in the world.

I think that North American sports could be altered, you know, from this day forward, based upon some of the money that's going to be pumped in from other places around the world, most notably from that PIF, that private investment fund from Saudi Arabia. And I imagine Steve Sands, the player's on tour now, and they hear about all the unlimited money, right, that's been talked about for the last year, two years. They're going to want that money now, what they would have got going to Liv. They're going to want that now.

But where else are you going to go? You really don't have that much leveraging power, but you do, because everyone's going to want to keep these great golfers playing the sport. I totally agree. I just can't imagine how the, again, this is not the union fighting with the league, like you have in the four team sports. The players are supposed to have a say in what gets implemented on the PGA Tour as far as rules.

None of them knew this was going to take place, Zach. So are they in charge or are they not? Do they have a say or do they not? They didn't have a say in this, and it'll be really interesting.

Now, here's the thing. When this is all said and done, the guys are going to be playing for so much more money that maybe at the end of the day it's not going to matter. But in the moment right now, it matters greatly that these guys were blindsided and that the stars who turned down hundreds of millions of dollars to go to Liv will now have to bring those Liv guys back who took the money and play the PGA Tour. We have to wait and see how all the details shake out. But if that's what actually takes place, some of these stars are going to be furious. And if they really wanted to, you know, strike or not play or maybe a sponsor like RBC, which is the RBC Canadian Open this week.

I'm headed to Toronto tomorrow. I can't wait to talk to some of these guys in person, Zach. Whew, off camera is going to be fascinating. You know, they could withdraw, withhold money, that kind of thing.

I don't know what could take place. But without that union, without that structure that most of your audience is used to hearing each and every, what, three, four years whenever there's a new CBA in all these leagues, it's not like that in golf. The players run the show or at least thought they ran the show. And I think today they got slapped down by the people who run the sports at the highest level administratively. And I think the players realize that perhaps they don't have as much say as they thought they did.

Steve Stans here with us from the Golf Channel, NBC Sports. So you talk about how many people were left in the dark on this and how hush-hush it was and came out of nowhere. I thought it was very interesting that Rory McIlroy was really the guy that was carrying the PGA Tour flag.

And then recently he started to change things. Do you think Rory genuinely did not know anything about this? It's a great question. I have a hard time thinking that Rory matters. There's a guy named Jimmy Dunn, a great guy, a big-time financial guy on Wall Street. He's a great, great guy. He's heavily involved in golf, and he was recently named, I think, last year onto the PGA Tour policy board, the board that runs the PGA Tour as far as the administration, not the players part. And Jimmy was one of the brokers of this deal. Jimmy and Rory are very close. Jimmy is very close with a lot of high-level PGA Tour players.

Again, he is a wonderful guy. I have a hard time thinking that Rory didn't know a little bit about what was going on, maybe didn't know that it was going to be announced today, and that they were going to move forward without all of the details being fully baked. But I think they wanted to get something out there, Zach, because they were afraid it was going to leak. In other words, you tell Rory, you tell someone else, all of a sudden it gets out.

You know how that stuff works. But I have a hard time thinking that Rory was 100% blindsided and he didn't know anything because I just can't imagine that the PGA Tour, Jimmy Dunn, Jay Monahan, whoever from the PGA Tour, putting him out there and having him be the spokesperson for the last 12 to 15 months and have him be completely blindsided, that would be a really, really tough move on the tours part. So I would imagine that Rory knew something.

Steve Sands, how do you think Greg Norman reacted to this stuff today? Because he is not expected to be part of the new business partnership, as it was explained today, and I guess knew nothing about it as well. Yeah, I don't know if he didn't know anything about it. I would imagine he didn't.

But he didn't really need to know anything about it. I think what's going to happen here is Greg is going to look like a hero. Everything he promised these guys, we're going to pay you a gajillion dollars, check. You're going to be playing all over the world, check. You're still going to be playing for so much more money and less time on the golf course, check. You're going to be able to play in the major championships, check. You're going to get world golf ranking points, check. And the sixth thing, we're going to merge with the PGA Tour, and we're going to be able to play with PGA Tour players once again.

Well, that looks like it's going to happen too. So I'm sure Greg is awfully excited by what took place today, even though he probably won't have anything to do with it moving forward because of his relationship or lack thereof with the PGA Tour folks. But I don't think he really cares as much as he cares at just getting back at the PGA Tour with all that angst over the years, and I think he certainly is smiling right now.

You're around this all the time, Steve Sands, and this is just me from afar. A year ago this was a huge deal, and then when you got to the Masters this year, the PGA Championship, it didn't feel like it was that big of a deal from the PGA golfers side of things. Where cooler heads started to prevail here, where the PGA Tour guys and live guys started to be okay with one another?

Individually, you mean? Yeah, like the majority, the guys of the PGA Tour, were they okay with the live golfer guys a year later? Yeah, I mean they're okay with the guys. What they're not okay with is some of them taking shots like Phil Mickelson taking those shots at some of these guys, Greg Norman taking shots at some of the guys. I don't think the PGA Tour players who stayed and didn't take the lay have anything against any of the live guys who chose to go that route. They still play and practice with them, they still hang out with them, they're friendly with them. There have certainly been some fractured relationships because of it, but I think on the whole, I think most of the guys on the PGA Tour are okay with the live guys.

They think that they betrayed them, they wouldn't have made that choice, they didn't make that choice, but I don't think they hold it against them personally, not for the most part. Literally, Mickelson, who's always yapping, Patrick Reed a little bit, but nobody liked him anyway out there, and Greg Norman was always chirping as well. So, you're talking about guys who weren't immensely popular in the first place with the other PGA Tour players.

Got it. Last thing I'll ask you, because there's going to be a lot of fans that care about the specifics and the money and all that, but just in terms of the future of golf, I know there's so many moving pieces and so many things that are ambiguous right now, what do you tell the golf fans to kind of dumb it down what the future of golf looks like? You know, what I would say to golf fans is you're probably going to benefit because if you put the three leagues together, I think, and you have one big league, then you're going to be watching the best players in the world go head-to-head against the other best players in the world at one event, not two different leagues, two different channels, three different continents, all these different things, and I think that's going to benefit the golf audience.

But, again, Zach, the details aren't out yet as far as how it's going to proceed. If, per se, they have a lot of events internationally and not as many events domestically, well, you'd get into different time zones, different viewing habits, different people, it'll be challenging, but I think the structure of the new entity will be something that golf fans will benefit from. The question is, will golf fans, will sponsors continue to support a tour that they've been railing against, literally railing against for years, and where the money comes from? Basically, Zach, this was a hostile takeover, a classic hostile takeover on Wall Street or any other corporation. You put financial pressure on the entity that you want, so much so that at some point that entity buckles, and then you're there to bail them out financially and are suddenly in charge of it. Well, that's kind of what's taking place here. The PGA Tour got into a little bit of a financial situation, COVID and then Liv.

Liv kept applying that pressure, applying that pressure, applying that pressure. Everybody thought everything's okay, they're not going to get any more players, but money talks, man, and they kept applying that financial pressure to them, and the PGA Tour buckled. The PGA Tour went to Liv, and now they're all one entity, and Liv is in charge because Yasser is the chairman of this new entity, and all the money that's being pumped in is from that PIF, the Private Investment Fund out of Saudi Arabia. If sponsors don't want any part of that, they're out.

If fans don't like that because of where the money's coming from, well, they might not support it as well, so we'll have to wait and see how it all plays out. But I think for the core golf fans, Zach, I think they're going to enjoy seeing the best players in the world playing week in, week out, and not just at major championships. Well, enjoy Canada. That trip's going to be really interesting now, Sans. You got that right, bud.

Thanks so much. There he is, Steve Sands. Great job NBC Sports and the Golf Channel.

And once again, couldn't really say it any better, it's all about the money at the end of the day. And I love the stuff on Patrick Reed because I think we can all agree no one likes that guy. And Patrick Reed's the love. That goes back to when he won the Masters, I feel like. And then the way things got shaken up with, you know, he was such a good match play guy, like in the President's Cup, Ryder Cup, and who was he teamed with that he was always at Spieth?

There was someone he was with in the early stages, and they were dominant, and then they broke them up, and it seemed like it had to do with personal relationships. Yeah, but people often use a word that starts with a P, and I can't say probably the rest of it on radio with him. Yes, I understand. PR, that's where we started. If you can't figure out the rest, then you know what, this isn't a show for you. A lot to react to from the interview and the conversation that we just had with our pals, Steve Sands.

Hickey, I'll open the floor to you and give you the floor. What do you think your biggest takeaway was after hearing Steve Sands with a lot that he just gave us in the last 15 minutes or so? I will say his last answer, because I think he's right.

At the end of the day, how we got here is awful. But the reality is now the biggest names in golf are all back under one umbrella. Phil, Brooks Koepka, DJ, now back on our TV screens more than just four times a year. And I think at the end of the day that's a win for golf because it's still a name notoriety sport. We still watch and follow the people we know the most. Those are still three of the biggest names in the game.

And now that we're going to see them a lot more often, I think that's a win for golf fans that they are back competing in a lot of these other tournaments outside just the four majors. So you're not wrong in anything that you just said. That's not my biggest takeaway.

I have about two or three other things first before you get to that. And I do think there are people that care about that, people that watch a sport. It doesn't matter to them how. Some people just get me the biggest golfers and get them all under the same umbrella. But I do feel like probably a lot of people, Hickey, in our listening audience, let's just say, probably watch golf, what, four times a year? They watch the four major championships, maybe an occasional tournament or two throughout the rest of the year. Nothing to do on a Saturday and Sunday. Want to kind of get away from your family and do what my dad does, like crack open a beer, sit on the couch and just say, Don't talk to me.

I'm really interested in this. And then eventually fall asleep on the couch while watching golf. So for me, yeah, it's nice to have everyone back eventually under one umbrella and make sure that we get the biggest names on our TV screens. Because when they had that deal with CW, I didn't even know how to find it. No one even watched it when it was OK. Dustin Johnson teeing off for 54 holes of whatever live golf tournament just because you didn't care.

So it's nice to have that luxury. I thought the three things that stood out to me the most was when you have the limited funds, obviously makes everything easier. But Steve Sands making it known that the PGA Tour needed this money and they needed to do this. I thought that was fascinating. And also how it stops any further litigation from all the pending stuff that was happening and how much more would have been revealed. And what hot water would the PGA, the PGA Tour would have got under and been thrown into. But really for me, and I saw this right before we got on the air, Dan Rappaport from Barstool Sports who covers golf. He mentioned that name, Jimmy Dunn, and he said that he was told that Jimmy Dunn had a crucial role in negotiations. The PGA Tour side felt like they got a great deal and then went on to say that the private investing fund money now focused on the PGA Tour.

No more litigation, lawyers poaching players, et cetera, et cetera. Similar stuff that what Sandy said. But Sands revealed that Jimmy Dunn and Rory McIlroy have this relationship.

And that kind of lines back up to the theory. And I'm looking at an article now where it goes back to November 16th, 2022, what Jimmy Dunn's golf's ultimate power broker is doing. And in this Golf Digest article, Rory McIlroy, Dunn's friend and a PGA Tour board member, that's just how that article starts. You go back to Rory McIlroy, who has been the spokesperson, really, for the golfers that stayed on the PGA Tour, where he carried that flag. He went after Liv Golf. He went after the golfers that ended up going. And how much Rory McIlroy's name was thrown into this and how much he really embraced being that spokesperson. And kind of like the locker room clubhouse leader for the PGA Tour guys. All of a sudden, really in the last month, two months, like right after the Masters, he pulls out of that tournament with the whole money and the penalty and all that. And then at the PGA Championship, like do we have that audio of Rory McIlroy right at the PGA Championship? Because some people are going to listen to this and be like, oh, so what? But when you've been so outspoken and people are going to you to ask you questions about the future of golf, questions about Liv Golf, and you give this answer, which I'll play for you in a second. It just kind of raised an eyebrow where, hmm, a while ago you were so against this and so outspoken and you couldn't shut up about it. But in the last month or two, all of a sudden kind of your lips were sealed and very tight about even mentioning Liv Golf when people would ask you questions. And this was the exchange prior to the PGA Championship.

We're coming up on the one year anniversary of the first Liv Golf tournament. If you could look into your crystal ball, maybe say three years from now, where do you think the professional game will be? I don't have a crystal ball. You don't want to speculate?

No. Like, Hickey, I hear that. I know some people are going to be like, oh, he just didn't want to answer the question. But why didn't he want to answer the question?

Because maybe he didn't know everything that was going to happen. But with this relationship with Jimmy Dunn, clearly he was tipped off in some capacity and maybe was instructed. Hey, we know you've been the guy. You've been outspoken.

We appreciate that. But it's kind of time to maybe wrap things up because things are going to be changing and changing rather quickly. That or there's no reason for you at this point because the deal's about to get done.

So you can't do anything. You've been outspoken, but nothing's changing. This deal is going through and basically anytime you flap your gums, it's just going to be a waste of air. And I saw that the full swing creators, the guys that are the producers on full swing, that I guess they're having a second season of this. And everyone remembers the first season that was just out a few months ago via Netflix. I guess they were filming today when some of these guys saw the breaking news alerts. So I guess we'll get a sense of how many guys were actually shocked by this and who were acting to be shocked because maybe they got a little nudge, nudge, wink, wink. I also thought Greg Norman now being viewed as a hero in a lot of these guys' minds that took the live golf money. I thought that was an interesting way to describe it, what Steve Sands said. Because kind of Greg Norman, who I guess as Sandsy laid out delivered on everything, now he's kind of getting left out of the party or whatever this new era is going to be. Yeah, the hero tag is interesting because I guess, sure, everything he promised has come to fruition. But then also at the same time, the fact that he's squeezed out or getting left out completely in the cold doesn't make sense.

I remember who he's dealing with. I get it, but everyone else is winning in the sense that the Saudis basically are winning this. They're getting everything they want. And I get to have your leader who spearheaded this, the face of it just to be kicked out is weird. He got his? No, he did. And to move forward, you did not need him because remember where they're going back to and how many former people they have to deal with. A lot of those current golfers on the PGA Tour aren't the biggest fans of Greg Norman these days. The mercenary got his.

Yeah, it is. Zach Gelb's show on CBS Sports Radio will break. We will come on back and we will talk more about all the latest between this merger between the DP World Tour, Live Golf, and the PGA Tour. Alrighty, back in five.