Bill Belichick Done With Mac Jones? (Hour 2)

And away we go, hour number two of our radio program. That's right, it is the Zach Gelb Show coast to coast on CBS Sports Radio. Three-time Super Bowl champion with the New England Patriots, Teddy Johnson is going to join us coming up 20 minutes from now as we get his reaction to this Mike Florio report that Bill Belichick has been shopping Mac Jones to multiple teams during this 2023 offseason still to come. An hour 20 from now, Terrence Oglesby from the field to 68, the former Clemson player. He will stop by to recap last night's national championship game and the dominant run by the UConn Huskies.

And in the final hour of the show at 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific, Alex Myers from Golf Digest will join us to preview the 2023 Masters to try to make you some money. All righty, but first up, let's update you on some of the biggest stories in the world of sports with some audio. We call this segment the News Brief.

Time for your daily News Brief. We get you caught up on the rumors, reports and reconnaissance from the day in sports. If you look at their average margin of victory, UConn, 20 points in this past NCAA tournament, Dan Hurley says the team has been motivated all season long courtesy of CBS. Well, they buried us before the season and then they buried us at the midpoint because we weren't ranked going into the year, so we had the chip on our shoulder.

And, you know, we knew the level that we could play at even through those dark times. And when you have a guy like Andre Jackson, who's the captain of your team and Adama Sanogo, you know, it's easy to get back on track. That was the team that started off the year 14-0. Then they went 3-6 in a stretch from December 31st to January 25th. After that, they only lost two games the rest of the year by a combined five points. Two-point loss to Marquette in the Big East Horny and then a three-point loss to Creighton back on Saturday, February 11th.

And Hickey, here's the most impressive part of them all. Their only losses this year came in the Big East. Every time they played a game at a conference, winner, winner, winner. They beat Oregon, they beat Alabama, they beat Iowa State, Florida, Oklahoma State, just to name a few, and then the run that they just went on in the NCAA tournament.

And Hickey, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is 100% right. The Big East is the best conference right now in college basketball. Yeah, it's deep. We've got some new hires, especially going into next year. Obviously, you have the reigning champion of Teal'e Marquette that's reloaded again. You've got Rick Pitino coming to make St. John's better.

Ed Cooley, while Providence should take a little bit of a dip, should rise up with Georgetown. It's the Big East is back, man. It's good to see.

It's wonderful. And really, it's been back for a while with what Villanova was able to do with their two national championships and then another Final Four appearance last year. And they have cemented themselves as a Blue Blood, and we'll see what Kyle Neptune does to get that program back moving in the right direction. But you look at that conference, you have Villanova, Blue Blood, and now you have UConn, a Blue Blood as well.

And in college athletics, the coaches matter a lot. And you have Pitino back, huge for the conference. Cooley, even though I didn't like how he did it, leaves Providence for Georgetown, huge for the conference. Sean Miller, back at Xavier, big for the conference. McDermott, really good coach. We'll see what Shaheen Holloway and Neptune can do.

But you look at Danny Hurley, he's just getting started. We know what UConn can do. I was reading John Fant to say that they have the fourth best recruiting class for this upcoming year. And we'll see who returns and who doesn't.

Hawkins and Sonogo probably leaving. But you saw how deep this team was. They'll be right back in the fold next year, and Hurley's only 50. So if you ask me, will UConn win another championship with their brand, their resources, and that program, yeah, I would absolutely, I would be disappointed if Danny Hurley doesn't win another championship. Danny Hurley says pushing through tough times has helped this team win this championship. It means everything. And for me, obviously, I'm not here without that special group of coaches and players. But I'm probably also not here if I didn't have to deal with that adversity and if I didn't have tough people that raised me like a tough older brother that prepared me for all the adversity that you have to face in life and battle back from.

And you look at his family. This is the real cool part of this championship. The Hall of Famer Bob Hurley Sr., who was forever a legend and will forever be a legend at St. Anthony's in attendance last night, had 26 state championships. His brother Bobby Hurley, we know he won two championships in college and was the Final Four MVP back in 1992.

For him to get that moment in that family last night, it just means so much. Danny Hurley, we talked about Tobin Anderson when the tourney started having the biggest boss move I've ever seen in tournament history. Where after they win that first game, I believe it was up against Texas Southern, he goes, the more I see Purdue, the more I think we could beat them.

And that's a 16 eventually going up against a 1 and he did that. Now Tobin Anderson, the new coach at Iona, with Patino leaving Iona going to St. John's. Well, a few years ago, Danny Hurley said, get us now because it's coming.

So you better get us while you can. And now he's a national champ. Let's hear Danny Hurley say he's very happy he could deliver on his promise to UConn. Obviously, a dream come true for all of us, part of the program. We sold a vision. I sold a vision to David Benelich and President Herbst and President Radenka and the university that I could put together a special group of people, a coaching staff and unbelievable players like this.

So it feels great to come through. Hickey, I have a question for you based off that game last night, because the actual game wasn't really that entertaining outside it getting down to five at one point before Hawkins hits that three to put him up by eight and say good night. For the most part, that game was a blowout. But you know what one of the more entertaining things I actually saw last night, and it happened on social media in regards to this game was? What was that? It was actually a tweet that you had. Were you being serious or was this sarcasm?

I'm trying to find it. When San Diego State was closing the gap, you said momentum shifting something along that and they're going to win the game. If I got four minutes spent, they're going to come back and finish it off. Did you really? Yeah.

I thought you were being sarcastic. No, we saw it happen. I thought the FAU game was playing out right in front of our eyes all over again. But you got some bad turnovers, missing a few shots. No offense to FAU. FAU is at UConn. All right, well, again, we haven't seen UConn be pushed before this tournament. Wasn't exactly confident they were going to rebound, no problem. So you were being serious? Yeah, not four minutes spent. They cut it to five? Yeah, absolutely. And then the moment you tweet that out, Hawkins bang for three.

His credit, they respond to adversity and give him a lot of credit. But, oh yeah, I don't think it was still a lock, even up by five, they're winning a title. Not at all. I never actually thought that San Diego State was going to win the game. Did they close the gap? Did they make it entertaining for about like a minute or two?

Yeah, absolutely. But there was never a moment in that game where I'm like, holy crap, San Diego State is actually going to win. But I was, I thought you were actually kidding around a little bit and kind of feeding into your hot take mentality. And you were doing this to kind of poke fun at me for calling you hot take hickey. But when you tweeted out, the tide has officially turned.

San Diego State is going to win this game. I didn't think you were being serious. That's why I asked. Anyway, Jordan Hawkins, who ruined the dream for hot take hickey, said it's incredible that both he and his cousin, who is Angel Reese, won national championships on consecutive days. I mean, it's absolutely amazing showing that kids that were our age at the time, we were dreaming about the same thing. I mean, we saw that as possible. I mean, it's absolutely amazing that we both get this opportunity. I mean, the family reunion is going to be crazy.

So that's all I know. Let's hear Matt Bradley on how Brian Dutcher saved his basketball career. When I entered the portal and came here, you know, I was really like during that time with covid and stuff, I was I was really ready to just stop playing. You know, I told myself I was just like, you know what, Matt? It's been tough.

I just go home and get a job and, you know, caught the day. You'll be all right. But, you know, Coach Dutch, he's one of the most genuine guys I ever met. And the way he took me in, you know, the brotherhood.

And these guys actually have real leadership that I can follow. It just, you know, it changed the directory of my life for sure. It's more than just basketball.

You know, I'm crying up here and stuff. But, you know, I'm just really thankful for Coach Dutch and everybody that played a part in my move here going to San Diego State. Picky, this is going to sound weird, but moments like that are some of my favorite moments of the NCAA tournament. Because we look at this from the lens of UConn. UConn's expected to win.

UConn's going to win. And then you have Matt Bradley, who transferred home from Cal the last two years. He's been a part of San Diego State. And just the fact that San Diego State was in the national championship game is remarkable. And when you're there, there's a reason why you're there. It's because you have confidence and you're not expecting to lose, even though the rest of the world was expecting UConn to win the game last night. And just to hear that emotion afterwards, not just that the fact that they lost, but how much Brian Dutcher meant to him and what he's done for him the last two years. It's really neat to see even the other side of it when, unfortunately, your team loses and the season comes to an end just like that.

And too, I think it also brings to light the transfer portal being good. It's vilified. It's something that a lot of coaches, anytime they speak out about it, it's in a negative way.

It's something that fans, anytime it's talked about, it's in a negative way. This is a guy who just told you he was about to quit basketball. He was miserable at Cal, was ready to basically pick up the ball and go home. And he almost got a second life from Brian Dutcher going to San Diego State. And now, again, look, he was minutes from winning a possibly national title, but now at least we know his name and he got to go to a Final Four for the only time in his career. And playing a championship game. It's a situation where, again, the transfer portal is portrayed as this awful thing ruining college sports. It just helped, in a way, change Matt Bradley's life. You know what I'm fascinated by with the transfer portal?

I saw John Fanta make this point earlier today, so give him credit for it. We're really going to get a test of the transfer portal. There's a lot of guys eligible to come back to FAU. I think it's like eight or nine. I wonder, and I know afterwards they said we're going to run it back, we're going to run it back. I wonder when those NIL deals start to flow in and we know that we'll see what the resources FAU has and what they could bring to the table. And they're giving Dusty May an extension and bumping up his salary. I just wonder how many players are part of this FAU team that are eligible to come back, actually do come back, and how many go for a bigger opportunity.

That, to me, is a fascinating question. Because, no offense, when St. Peter's went in their run last year and then so many of those guys left, your coach was leaving. Your coach is coming back, though, at FAU. And also, you took it further than just in Elite Eight, not to pooh-pooh the accomplishments of St. Peter's. It was remarkable they were 15. But they were in the Final Four, and up until the last second of that game, should have been in the championship game.

So that, to me, was a great point by Fanta. And I'm fine with the transfer portal, I'm fine with NIL, but I just wonder how many of those guys make a financial decision and then how many of them run it back to FAU because they see a group that, once again, maybe could be back in the same spot next year and go even further. I also wonder about it from the other position. Who wants to lead to go play for Dusty May? Really good head coach. He obviously helped get FAU to, again, one second of a title game. If you're a player on a big team that's not playing or you're, again, a popular transfer, do you now take a chance on FAU and Dusty May when that was probably never an option before this run? I would think it's more so if you're a player with a big background that it's not working out at your big school, that's how you wind up at FAU. I don't think a hot transfer that's playing well that just wants to leave just to leave is going to FAU. Let's hear from Kaitlyn Clark.

This is just so stupid. Jill Biden, the first lady, and I talked about this yesterday, she wants Iowa to come to the White House. And she talked about how great of a game Iowa played in the national championship game.

I love the story of Iowa. They allowed the most points to a team in NCAA women's tournament final history. But, like, you can't say they played a great game and then also you don't invite them to the White House.

That is for the team that won the championship. So Kaitlyn Clark, who did a great job, she went outside the lines and she says Iowa shouldn't go to the White House. I don't think runner-ups usually go to the White House. I think LSU should, you know, enjoy that moment for them. And congratulations, obviously, they deserve to go there.

Maybe I could go to the White House on different terms, though. But, you know, I think, you know, that's for LSU. So, you know, that's a pretty cool moment and they should enjoy every single, you know, second of being a champion. And so much has been made from all this just stupidity that I don't really have a problem with between Angel Reese and Kaitlyn Clark at the end of the game. And give credit to Kaitlyn Clark. She says she has no problem with Angel Reese because emotions need to be a part of the game. I think it's a great point, courtesy of Outside the Lines.

I think men have always had trash talk. You know, that's what it's been and I think more and more people as they turn on the game, they're appreciating it for what it is. You know, I'm just lucky enough that I get to play this game and have emotion and wear it on my sleeves and so does everybody else.

So that should never be torn down. That should never, you know, be criticized because I believe that's what makes this game so fun. That's what draws people to this game. That's what draws it to the pro level, to college level, to the high school level.

So either way, it doesn't matter. You know, you should be able to play with that emotion. That's what makes it so fun. Nobody wants to tune in and not see people, you know, be competitive and passionate about what they're doing. Across any sport, that's how it should be. So I believe that's, you know, what it should be and that's how I'm going to continue to play. That's how every girl should continue to play.

So I'm just lucky enough that, you know, we have fans support us and, you know, want to watch that type of basketball. And one final one. Kaitlyn Clark says Angel Reese doesn't deserve any backlash for her actions. I don't think Angel should be criticized at all. You know, no matter which way it goes, you know, she should never be criticized for what she did. You know, I'm just one that competes and she competed. So I think everybody knew there was going to be a little trash talk in the entire tournament.

It's not just me and Angel. So, you know, I don't think she should be criticized. Like I said, LSU deserves that. They played so well. And like I said, I'm a big fan of hers. There you go. If you're someone that's freaking out over what happened on Sunday.

Kaitlyn Clark, who had Angel Reese raving in her face and saying the whole ring finger thing. She doesn't have a problem with it. She doesn't care.

So if she doesn't care, I don't get why so many other people get worked up about this, but that's where we are. All right. This is that Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio. Big report from Mike Florio today that Bill Belichick has shot Mac Jones to multiple teams during this offseason. We'll get a reaction from a three-time Super Bowl champion from the New England Patriots.

Ted Johnson next. You're listening to the Zach Gelb show. Alrighty, Zach Gelb shows CBS Sports Radio. The big news today in the NFL comes from Mike Florio Pro Football Talk. Bill Belichick reportedly shot Mac Jones to multiple teams during the 2023 offseason. So let's get a little reaction from that with Ted Johnson who has won three Super Bowl championships with Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots. And now does a great job for 98-5, the sports hub. Ted, appreciate the time. As always, hope you're well. How do you react to that Florio report from earlier today?

Zach, it's good to talk to you, man. That was, it's unbelievable covering this team. All of these kind of, I don't know, events that happen that you just, you kind of like shake your head at. One comes right after the other, that comes right after the other. Just some of the stuff that you heard earlier in the week, last week at the owners meeting. Some of the things that Robert Kraft said with his time with the media and what Bill Belichick said with his time in the media earlier last week. We're just, you know, kind of throwing some, you know, flamethrowers at each other. Just taking shots, a lot of passive aggressiveness.

Not being on the same page. You know, just the, all the mess that happened last year with Matt Patricia and Joe Judge. The utter, you know, kind of disaster that that was. You know, putting guys in a position to run their offense that had no business doing that. And we saw how that blew up. And it's the whole process from that point, Zach, of Robert Kraft jumping in and basically directing Bill to change the coordinators.

And there's just been so many things that have happened that have just, that are so what I would say, unpatriot-like. And this one to me, this latest report from Mike Florio today is the biggest one of all. Because it just shows you the dysfunction that is really going on there in Foxboro.

Not being on the same page. And Bill Belichick, and I totally feel like this report is not fabricated. There's a lot of people accusing Mike Florio of that. Mike is a very reputable guy. And when he says something like that, he's, you know, he doesn't say it without meaning it. And so it was, today's news was kind of the icing on the cake as far as showing, I think, the dysfunction.

Showing what is going on behind the scenes. Robert Kraft feels one way about Mac Jones, which is he loves the kid. I mean, he's gone on record saying that. Bill Belichick, very noncommittal in his feelings towards Mac and really about his future here. It just, the news that came out today that Bell's been shopping him around is, I think, just, you wonder if this is something Mac can ever really come back from. And you just wonder if this is going to be very much a divisive season, upcoming season for both Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick. With how you just laid it out, if Bill misses the playoffs this year, do you think he's back coaching the team a year from now?

Yep, it's, that's one of the biggest questions. And my answer to that is it has to, you have to see how it looks for us, Zach. I don't think him missing the playoffs, honestly, will put his job in jeopardy too much. I mean, because if they go 8-9, 9-8, they went 8-9 this year.

If they go 9-8 next year and still don't better even in the playoffs. You know, and Mac looks like he did, you know, he bounced back from what was a disaster last year. And the offense looks confident.

And there's just nothing major, maybe glaring, they just, you know, didn't have, you know, if they just lost the game here or there. If it looks like that, you have to remember, Zach, that the biggest kind of thing hanging over this team right now is the record for most wins in the NFL by a head coach. And that's Don Shula. And Bill Belichick is 19 wins away from reaching, excuse me, 18 wins away from reaching Don Shula, 19 wins to pass him. And Zach, I am telling you, and it's been reported by a ton of guys here, Mike Giardi, I'm telling the network and others, that that is a very important record for Bill Belichick to achieve. And so, and the feeling is that Robert Kraft doesn't want to be the guy that fires the coach, that won six Super Bowls here, just, you know, 9, 10, 11 games shy of breaking Don Shula's record. And so the feeling is, it's this record that is hanging out there that is kind of, you know, the reason that this, this dysfunction and this look what it looks like from all, to all of us on the outside, what's been a very frayed relationship, not only between Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick, but between Bill Belichick and Mac Jones. That thing, that breaking that Don Shula's record is the one thing that's keeping this all together.

And of course, you can have your opinion on whether or not that's worth it at the end of the day, but that's kind of the thinking around here. Ted Johnson here with us. Here's another thing I don't get. Why Robert Kraft last week said, oh, Meek Mill texted him, and I know they had the connection with Michael Rubin, and said that Lamar Jackson wants to be a Patriot, and then that was Robert saying, oh, but at the end of the day, it's up to Bill. Like, that was weird to me how much Robert said he's like Mac Jones, but then throwing Lamar Jackson out there wouldn't add up if you actually do like Mac Jones as much as you're saying. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And so I think, I think he loves Mac Jones.

I don't think he was doing, I think he inadvertently said that without thinking about the impact on what it would have on Mac. And really, there's just maybe a couple, a couple really maybe explanations for it. But you talk about, one of them is that it's kind of been a sensitive issue with the higher ups. I think both Bill Belichick and Robert Kraft, as far as kind of who does, you know, who runs the money, does Robert Kraft put restraints on Bill when it comes to, you know, bringing in top dollar guys, and the narrative is that Robert Kraft is stingy with his money, that he's cheap, that he doesn't want to pay for big contracts. And so, you know, he, he, but he doesn't want to take the blame for that. He doesn't want that, you know, people to think that about him. And so he went on, he goes on the record and says, Yeah, you know, Meek Mill said that Lamar Jackson wants to play for us.

And I wouldn't get in the way. That's a bill decision. He's basically saying that if Bill wants, you know, Lamar Jackson, then that's on Bill, when everybody knows, that's an ownership decision, Zach, I mean, you're gonna bring in a guy with all that guaranteed money and everything that comes with Lamar Jackson, trading draft equity and more gene the future that you know, the owner has to get involved.

So that was a that was kind of what the feeling is a cheap shot. The only conclusion I can say that he was doing that really, is more about vanity. I think Robert Kraft, the team has had two losing seasons in the last three years. He's not, you know, the Patriots get flexed out of primetime games, they don't get put in primetime slots anymore. They're not the you know, the bell of the ball anymore. And that's Robert Kraft, more than anything, ego, vanity, whatever you want to call it him saying, Look, we got guys like Lamar Jackson is still want to play here to me at the end of the day.

That's really what it was. But I think it really kind of backfired him and he's probably regretting ever saying it. You know what, Ted, I haven't thought about this until now. But when you were speaking, it triggered a thought Ted Johnson here with us. We all know the owners don't want to give Lamar a fully guaranteed contract. So I actually think that is more telling that bill is not interested in Lamar Jackson, because at least Robert Kraft, who knows he can't give a fully guaranteed contract because you'd upset the other owners. And that's what Lamar wants you think that's him saying, I'm interested to put up the front that this isn't collusion may be going on with all the other owners, but then it's really telling knowing that it's that bill at the end of the day would not go for Lamar Jackson anyway. Yeah, you know, and you know, the main reason that Bill Belichick won't go after Lamar, I think the number one reason, more than anything, is what he costs. And you sit there go, well, Bill's not writing the checks.

But what people don't realize, and it's not a, it just, it's just something you start to get this sense. Everybody's talking about Bill's legacy, Bill's legacy, and he wants to name the successor and he wants to set it up for the next guy to have success is that Bill thinks he is the Patriots. I mean, I think he really thinks he is the pain. So he doesn't have one player on his roster that makes over $20 million. Bill loves that he is an economics major he go you can go back to school. He's very much into having a team that doesn't make hasn't have one guy that you got to really stretch for the thinking is the Bill Belichick makes around, you know, we think we don't know but as a reporter anywhere from 20 million to 25 million. But Bill Belichick never wanted to resign Tom Brady to a two year $50 million contract, because he would be, he would be making more than Bill. So there's nobody on this roster that that has a higher salary than Bill Belichick and Bill for Bill to bring in Lamar Jackson you have to pay him a hell of a lot more than he pays that he then he gets paid. And a lot of us are you know that, you know, know the situation feel like he would never do that because that's how Bill thinks he did he thinks he's the most important person on the team not not the player. And that's I think the biggest problem when you get into this chapter of life without Brady whether it's crass fault whether it's Belichick's fault or a mixture of both for so many years they could cut corners and not pay players because you had number 12 there. Now when you have Mac Jones, you got to do with the bills the dolphins and the Eagles have done for their young quarterback and pay a wide receiver ridiculous amount of money because even though they brought in Bill O'Brien this year Ted Johnson which is great. What else do they really have the offense side of the ball that really intimidates if you're a defender, not much. No, no, no, they absolutely don't have much and you're absolutely right. It's almost as if Bill Belichick still runs this team as if Tom Brady is his quarterback.

It's amazing. It's I mean, and that's that shows you the hubris I think in the arrogance and the and it just kind of shows you like Bill just never wanted to give Tom his his credit and he really, you know, he really wanted Tom to he pushed Tom out so that he could prove to everybody that it was more about him and that those that his legacy is so tied to Tom Brady and he wanted to change that narrative. Well, all he's done once he once he did three don't didn't give Tom a really not even it really was an insulting offer and nothing close to what market value was and he got rid of Tom he completely exposed himself and all those things you're talking about Bill is it hasn't changed over the years really. I mean, he's got a little bit more insular and a little bit more insecure and a little bit more paranoid, but he's always kind of been that but you didn't hear of a lot of this stuff because he can make mistakes with with coaching staff with players all the time. This guy's off, but it didn't matter because you had Tom Brady now he doesn't have Tom Brady.

The ecosystem is completely different. He doesn't have anybody to use as an example of here's a guy that's great at what he does, but he takes less money for to sacrifice for the team yada yada yada. He can't hide all these tenants and kind of methodologies that Bill has been pushing forever. They're all being exposed now that Tom's not here and you can see the pressures kind of getting to him and he's just he's getting a little bit more untrustworthy in a little bit more insular as time is gone on here. He's just I think he's feeling the pressures that and the thing that surprised me the most where you kind of break the Bella check character and I've seen a former a few former players comment on this when he was asked something along the lines at the meetings.

Why should Patriot fans still trust you and he's like the last 25 years, you know that as a player build doesn't care about the previous championships, you know, he doesn't reference the previous years of success. Correct. That was that was that was I think that was one of the most revealing kind of answers and it's interesting to me. Like I am not surprised when people go. Are you surprised?

This is this built bill said this and I'm like, that's the only thing I'm surprised. I'm not I'm not surprised that he thinks that way. I'm not surprised that he thinks, you know, hey, they you know, this team's got me and if I'm here, don't worry about anything else.

I got this. He should think the last 25 years that that that arrogance and hubris has has always been there. But for him to kind of slip and show his hand, he's usually a lot more careful about it. And it just feels like as the older he gets, he's 71 years old.

Don't forget that. He's he's kind of I don't know. He's just not on top of it. It's just not a button-down situation and the dysfunction is just starting to really reveal itself and it's like him or craft with the unique bill comment.

It's like they don't even realize what they're saying sometimes and how it's going to be perceived and it's just not good man. Last thing I'll ask you Ted Johnson, even with all that we just said about the money, you know how much Bill Belichick still to this day hates the Jets. The Jets look like they're going to land Aaron Rodgers.

It's not official yet. They haven't been able to figure out the trade with the Packers with this Florida report that they've shot Mac Jones this offseason. Do you think there's any chance that Bill one more time gives the middle finger to the Jets and finds a way to get Rodgers to Foxboro? Love it. Love the conspiracy theory.

It's a it's a really good one. You know, there's a lot of things that I think Bill could kind of, you know, shove it where the sun don't shine. So to speak to a lot of people by bringing Aaron Rodgers and one being Brady one being back, you know, and then and then the course the Jets.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. He hates the Jets. I don't think I really don't think that would happen because you know, Bill and Bill loves Aaron Rodgers. It's the contract Zach. It always goes back to the money with Bill like there's so many freaking great players that the Patriots are kind of connected to and rumored to be an interested of and it never really comes to fruition hardly ever because of the money. I mean the the rumor is they offered, you know, you know Odell Beckham like six million dollars a year. Well Odell Beckham is not going to take that like you see what a great player you got to pay him.

They're so reluctant. They got to have the win the deal every time they got to get the contract that is value where you don't overextend and Aaron Rodgers his contract is just it's it would be a contract. It would be so out of character for the Patriots to do and I think both whether in Craig Kraft doesn't want to ever admit it.

He always wants to put claim build it. He's the one that has a decision but when it comes to a contract like what Aaron Rodgers has right now and all that guaranteed money. There's just I can't ever imagine Bill signing that like I wanted to sign that contract and neither I could I see Kraft being on board for that. And so I think that's ultimately why Aaron will come here because they will not pay premium for premium players and you're seeing what that's been resulted in. Honestly the only two big contracts I remember Bill handed out is the dailiest Thomas which was a disaster and then Stefan Gilmore which which clearly did work for them.

That's it. But it's two guys from outside and there were there were in-house candidates, you know, for both of those positions that were you know, okay Bill's going to it Bill Bill will go out and pay like the Stefan Gilmore over Malcolm Butler. It was it's just one of those kind of things where you're just like wow, you know Bill just he would rather pay somebody who's it's kind of like the exact same dynamic this year with Jacoby Myers. Bill I heard gave him a very insulting offers basically tell you dare you know saying I we don't want you anymore. He would rather, you know, pay a juju Smith Schuster who he's doesn't know anything about. Yeah, you can see his production in Kansas City was last year was great and you know, but you don't know how he's going to come into this system and this culture and react when you already had a proven commodity in Jacoby Myers. But yet Jacoby pissed you off because he was too outspoken and he sided with Mac. So you don't want to sign him, but you'll find this other guy from from the from another team who was a productive player to good player, but you don't know how he's going to fit in your system. That's that's how Bill is he would rather pay the you know guys from the outside then keep his own for his own, you know, for reasons that are probably really, you know, immature and petulant and that's just that's kind of how he's operated and he could always get away with it before because like you mentioned. Yeah, Tom Brady now he doesn't and so now everybody's scrutinizing these types of decisions that he's making that's failing that he's really quite frankly has been doing this whole 20 year span, but just never being exposed because you had Tom Brady Ted Johnson appreciate the time as always. Thank you so much.

Okay, that'd be good, man. You're listening to the Zach Gelb show. Zach Gelb shows CBS Sports Radio.

So Hickey, what was your biggest takeaway from that Ted Johnson interview? I think when you go through this report that they've been shopping Mac Jones like naturally says okay, they're going to go make a late run at Rogers probably not. Are they going to go make a move for Lamar Jackson? That's probably the likeliest theory, but I just don't see Lamar winding up in Foxborough unless they wait and wait and wait. And then the price starts to drop in the Ravens aren't going to match it. But with how much the Ravens hate the Patriots, you know, they don't want Lamar back. I think even then they would hold their nose and say even though we're kind of moving on for Lamar. We're not letting him go walk over to save Belichick.

For me, because I never heard this before. It was the salary of Bill wanting to be the highest paid basically Patriots employee and not having anyone higher salary than him, which again would rule out. Mark Jackson rule out Aaron Rodgers and we knew pretty much any competent quarterback. Yes. 20 million dollars. That's pennies these days. Great point. So it's just like, I mean, you always hear Brady taking discounts. I mean, it's for it's him because he wants to do for the better of the team, which I respect.

But if you are that arrogant and for whatever reason have a badge of pride, I guess is maybe the way to go. I don't know why the mindset would be there when it comes to salary being important. He never cared about salary.

He would just cut guys left and right. Remember what their contract was or trade them. Why that's such a big sticking point. And again, that's massive now because you need a quarterback. Well, allegedly, if you're trading Mac Jones and two of the guys that are at least available on the market, you are out of the running because you want to pay the salary.

Well, let's be real. Rodgers isn't really available, but he's on the market. But if he let's just say he that blows up whatever sounds like Bill's not going to pay the money. Lamar is the one that you got to watch for. And the part about Robert Kraft last week bringing up Lamar and his conversation with Meek Mill. I think Robert Kraft knows and Ted Johnson said it may also be more Robert Kraft than Bill.

So they don't know the true answer to that. But I think Robert Kraft, going back to Lamar Jackson thing, knows that he can't give him a fully guaranteed deal or close to what he's asking for right now because the owners would be annoyed about it. So let me put up with all these collusion allegations. I'm willing to pay, but it's up to Bill at the end of the day and put it on Bill, who he knows down deep. If, let's say, Ted is right, there's no way Bill's going to pay Lamar Jackson. And then it goes back to the big question of who's going to be quarterback.

If you're off Mac Jones, who are you going to replace him with? And if you don't like Mac Jones, then if you're Robert Kraft, you're asking Bill Belichick, then why don't you like what's the issue here? And again, there is something going on. There's obviously, and Ted just highlighted it, there's a massive disconnect either between Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick, Bill Belichick, Mac Jones, all three just right now not on the same page. And that's very, for the last 20 years, unpatriotic.

Well, here's what I think it is. And there's been problems before in the organization, but winning takes care of all those problems for the most part. What I think is going on right now is Robert Kraft wants him to make the playoffs again.

Bill Belichick has made the playoffs once in three years after Tom Brady. Bill is still stubborn. Robert stepped in and said, you got to get rid of Patricia, you got to get rid of Judge from their current roles. And I know Judge is still with the team.

Patricia, it's not looking like he's going to be back. And then you have this other thing of Bill and Mac Jones getting into it. And I think Mac Jones felt like he was kind of lost because it was so stupid what the Patriots tried to do last year. So I think one of the reports was he went outside the organization to Alabama, right, his college. Well, who's best friends of Belichick?

Saban. So like no crap that that gets back to Belichick and then Belichick's annoyed with it. So I think this is just like a triangle right now where Robert's saying to Bill, you got to make the playoffs. Bill's saying, 25 years, look what I've done.

I'll find a way to figure this out. And then you have the new guy, the quarterback, who's like the innocent puppy dog who just wants to be a part of the team and wants to hang out with the older dogs in the park. And he has a little bit of some young fire and a little fire burn in his tummy. But one of the dogs that want to play with him. So he goes outside the organization to try to go get some help on how to kind of smooth things over in Foxboro. So it's just a cluster.

That's what it is right now. Also, too, not only is Saban best friends of Belichick, but if you go back to last year, who was the offensive coordinator at Alabama? O'Brien. Bill O'Brien.

So again, he's not exactly. And O'Brien briefly worked with Mac Jones when they had that championship game where O'Brien came back. Right. And obviously, he's had a lot of success and a lot of experience coaching under Bill Belichick running the offense. So it's not exactly you're going, quote unquote, outside the Patriots family when you're asking for advice.

Well, we also don't know who he contacted at Alabama. Right. Can I ask you a question? Yes. Is Bill Belichick still this day motivated the most by winning?

What do you mean by that? Like, is every move Bill Belichick is making, is it with the goal in mind to win a Super Bowl and get back to the playoffs? I think Bill, as even Ted said, still operates a team the way he has for the last 20, 25 years.

So I would say yes. But the problem is, Bill's not seeing that he needs to adapt without having Tom Brady. And that's my biggest problem with Bill. You have Mac Jones. People may not think Mac Jones could be great, but Mac Jones, the facts are he made the playoffs his first year. Bill needs to alter his approach, and he's usually the best at adapting.

How many times have you given credit for that in the last 25 years? I've been saying this now for three years. Without Tom Brady, you need to improve the rest of the roster. Year one, I get it. Transition. You're bringing Mac Jones?

Okay, fine. It's his rookie year. But after Mac showed you that he could get to the playoffs, last year, you should have had a competent offensive coordinator, and you should have got a number one wide receiver. And this year, you have a competent, obviously, offensive coordinator, but so far, you don't have a number one wide receiver. You know, a wide receiver room you could say is improved a little bit. You know, you have some depth in there, but there's no number one wide receiver. So if they get DeAndre Hopkins, I'd be thrilled. If you draft someone, there's always a slippery slope there. You hope that they turn into a Jamar Chase or a Justin Jefferson. That doesn't come around all that often. But that's the biggest problem with Belichick is he needs to realize he doesn't have Tom Brady and put his young quarterback with other stars to get the best out of him.

A lot of other teams have done around the league. Bill, it's your turn. Let's go.