Remembering The Life Of Mike Leach (Hour 1)

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For home loan solutions that fit your life well, Rocket can. Coming up in 20 minutes from now, we will unfortunately today have to remember the life of Mike Leach as he did pass away last night at the age of 61. Mike Leach was an offensive coordinator, as you know, at Oklahoma in 1999 on Bob Stoops' first staff. And Bob Stoops is going to join us 20 minutes from now. And we know the career that Mike Leach eventually did go on to have as a head coach at Texas Tech, Washington State, and most recently at Mississippi State, where this past season he put together a record of eight and four.

You found out over the weekend that he had a heart attack and he was rushed to the hospital and there was no signs of optimism or encouraging reports. And it felt like it was trending to this direction, even though you were hoping that there was going to be a miraculous recovery, but Mike Leach unfortunately did pass away last night at the age of 61. And we could sit here and we can discuss the impact that his coaching style had, and there is no doubt about it, the air raid offense has meant so much, not only to college, but also different kind of looks in the NFL as well. And you've seen how many people have got to know Mike Leach and coach with him or were able to try and replicate what he did. But to me, what made Mike Leach so special, and this is what shows how unique of an individual he was, is we could sit here and do an entire show about his legendary football accomplishments at the three stops like we mentioned, where he was head coach at Texas Tech and Washington State, and then also recently with Mississippi State. So for me, with Mike Leach, I was always enamored by his personality and the zany things that he would say to the media, but it wasn't like just crazy things.

They were always so well thought out. And in all the years of hearing coaches speak, I don't think anyone formulated an argument about whatever better than Mike Leach. And sometimes with coaches, they turn into robots. They only allow coach speak to be filtered out to the media.

They sometimes get too big for their britches and a little bit at times lose touch with reality. That was never Mike Leach. Mike Leach could talk about anything to anyone, and he could captivate an entire audience and most importantly, just make you smile. And I could listen to him speak about anything, and it doesn't have to be football, because even though as great as a coach that he is, the memories that I have of Mike Leach are him talking about mascots having a battle royale in the Pac-12.

Or his hatred for candy corn or the talks of Bigfoot and Sasquatch or his views on how you shouldn't do a big wedding and things like that. Those are the things that the everyday man or woman could relate to and we will always remember when discussing the life of Mike Leach. And there's so many things that we could give him words of extolment on in terms of his football career and things he did on that sideline for many young men and for many people for years and years and years and years. But he had this unique ability to be able to relate with people, not only inside the football world because that's a given, but outside the football world.

Because you would just hear him speak, like how many times in a household, if one person's a football fan, let's say there's three people that aren't, will the football fan be playing something? And then the three people, let's say, in the household that aren't a football fan, they hear and they're like, who the heck is that guy? And that was Mike Leach because the things he would discuss, he would rant, he would rave on, everyone could have an opinion on or everyone could make you just laugh at it or think about it because nine times out of 10, it had nothing to do with football. And this guy was a heck of a football coach.

So when I saw the news this morning and woke up to it, it wasn't surprising because of what has occurred in the last 48 hours. But it is gut wrenching because this is a guy who unfortunately passes away at the age of 61 while he's still coaching. And I can't even imagine what his family is going through and not only his family, but then his football family as well. Because obviously you think about his immediate family and we send our thoughts and prayers and condolences to the entire Leach family and anyone that has known Mike Leach. But you know your real family and your football family often get blended together when you are a football coach. Because you make a promise to other people's parents, your players' parents that you're going to look after their sons and you're going to be pretty much a fatherly figure when their child commits to you to go play at whatever university for three years, four years, five years, whatever it may be.

And my heart breaks for a lot of people in this situation, but especially the Mississippi State players. Because he's been there for three years, he just finished up an eight and four season, they have a bowl game on the second day of January in the year of 2023. And they talked today, the university, they said they're going to honor coach Mike Leach in that game and they would want, they're going to want to play that game because Mike Leach would have wanted them to play that game. And we all know the importance, whether it was in middle school, high school, college, if you're lucky enough to play professionally, the impact of a coach. And it seems like from everything you heard, from everything you read, from everything that you did see about Mike Leach, he was more than just a football coach. And he would have intimate, in-depth conversations and he impacted so many people in so many different stops for years and years and years and his legacy is going to live on forever because that's a guy that once again, he was one of one.

We know what he did on a football field, we know what he did on a sideline, but that unique ability to really just connect with people and to just talk about the craziest things. And make such compelling arguments always made me when I would look at Mike Leach feel like this guy was a mythical figure because of the things that he would talk about. And he was a larger than life person and I'll never forget and I didn't have a relationship with Mike Leach.

But when we were at the draft this year in Las Vegas, there are thousands and thousands and thousands of people at the casino that we were staying at and then we would go and do the show for the draft on that Thursday and Friday. And I remember Hickey and I were walking back into the casino from one of the shows, I forget which night it was, I think it was the first night of the draft, and the casino is just mobbed with so many people. And when you got to the middle of the casino, who is there being the life of the party, right in the middle, everyone wanting to talk to, it was Mike Leach. I said to Hickey, I'm like, holy crap, that's Mike Leach, because you hear so many things about him for all those years. And you just wonder what he would be like in like a bar setting, a casino setting like that. And you just saw him talking to so many people.

And you could only imagine what the conversations were about. And that's the thing with Mike Leach. You never knew what you were going to get.

You never knew what he was going to say. And most of the times it had nothing to do with probably his biggest passion of them all. And that was coaching football, because the many different ways he was able to engage so many different people is what always stood out to me about Mike Leach. So we put together a montage here of just some of the highlights, the gems that Mike Leach has given us throughout the years. And when you listen to this stuff, most of the clips that we're going to play for you, it's about four minutes long, but it's well worth it.

Really have nothing to do with football. And it's all about zany things that he would always talk about. As we remember, Mike Leach unfortunately passed away yesterday at the age of 61. Our condolences to his family and to all that were touched by Mike Leach. But we wanted to try to make people smile today on what is a very tough and somber day.

And we put together this little montage of some of the gems throughout the years with Mike Leach. My favorite weather pattern happens to be when it rains mud. Dust comes through, rain on top of it, it rains mud. This weather report here, what do I know?

I'm a football coach. I suggest you go out and do what I do, get out of bed, go outside, then you know. Got your coffee.

It is early. How do you take your coffee? What's the best way to take your coffee? Well, coffee tastes terrible anyway, so don't put anything in it to obstruct the harsh bitter taste and just put it down one sip at a time, you know. So it's just all about the effect, the taste, it's not about the experience at all, it's about the outcome.

No, the experience is terrible. I mean, I completely ate candy corn when I was a kid. Well, gummy bears, let's see, gummy bears for sure. Sour or regular?

The Haribo, it's got to be the Haribo ones. And then the other thing I like is when they used to have the sprees in a box, outstanding, you have to go to the dollar store to find it, but I do. And then the latest, you know, there's still candy innovation, although a while back I found that Europe had better candy than we did overall because they have gummy everything. And then, but the, you know, they have those nerds clusters, which is new. Just the gummy? Yeah, which is good. The nerds clusters is good.

And then if you go chocolate, probably Almond Joy. You've been speaking to the officials all night, what's your reaction to some of those calls in the first half? What's your reaction? You're watching the same game I'm in.

I think you ought to comment on it positive or negatively, whatever's running through your mind. This isn't Starbucks. This is the stuff in house here, which is all right. But we're going to see if it kills ants. We've got these fire ants out here. They're kind of resurfacing a little bit. I actually have no material to support the fact that this works, but this is strictly an experimental deal. I don't know.

Maybe it could turn into super ants. As coaches, we failed to get through to them. As coaches, we failed to make our coaching points and our points more compelling than their fat little girlfriends. Now their fat little girlfriends have some obvious advantages.

For one thing, their fat little girlfriends are telling them what they want to hear, which is how great you are and how easy it's going to be. And how, you know, we had a whole bunch of people, everybody wanted to win the football game, but nobody wanted to play the football game. Well, I mean, that defies every level of work ethic that exists with regard to football. And as coaches, we have to solve our failure on reaching them. And the players have to listen. And I'm willing to go to fairly amazing lengths to try to make that happen.

I don't know if I'll be successful this week or not, but, you know, I am going to try and there will be some people inconvenienced. And if it happens, be their fat little girlfriends too bad. I hope there's Bigfoot. I don't think there is. The reason I don't think there is is we found bones of dinosaurs and everything else, but we haven't found bones that I've heard of Bigfoot. Aliens, I suspect there is. And I don't know that they're little green men. And I don't know that they're specifically in our galaxy. I don't know that they would, you know, just be hostile mutants and the rest, you know.

They might look, you know, remarkably like us where style-wise or something, they evolved to different directions, maybe buildings, cars, different who knows, you know. But I certainly wouldn't rule out life somewhere else other than just Earth because, see, to me that seems like a lot less of a stretch than the notion that, oh, we're the only one. We're the only one special enough that lightning struck a puddle of mud. Or we're the only one special enough that God cares about enough to have life on this planet.

I don't believe that. I mean, everybody wants to be special, but I don't think we're that special. That was awesome. I smiled, Ryan, throughout that entire thing and just laughed. But that's Mike Leach. He always made you laugh. And he had such a unique voice.

Think about the four minutes we just played for you. It was on Candy, him doing a weather report, him talking about weddings, Bigfoot, coffee and fat little girlfriends. Like, Hickey, that's just who this guy was. And maybe it was a strategy way so he didn't have to talk about football and, you know, coaches get like that.

But this guy could literally talk about anything. And the way I'll remember him, even though he made an enormous impact on the game with the air raid offense and all that. And the way that he coached for years and years and years and multiple different stops, but it was all the other stuff. And when you have someone that is a powerful football coach and you think about them right away and football is not the first thing to come to mind. It shows you how special of a person that Mike Leach was.

Absolutely. I mean, he's one of one for a reason, because he actually just hearing that brought fun back to the sport of football. We have too many coaches, too many people in general taking what is a child's game too seriously. And he kind of brought that to the next level completely. But that's what he kind of brought each and every time he would speak to the media, every time a coach game would just be that, you know, joy and fun that football supposed to be. After all, we will continue to remember the life of Mike Leach, who did pass away yesterday at the age of 61. When we do come back, a man that hired Mike to be the O.C. at Oklahoma in nineteen ninety nine. Bob Stoops will join us.

It is the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio, as we say, rest in peace to the great coach in Mike Leach. Throughout the 60s and 70s, cops hunted down key figures of the Dixie Mafia, including its enigmatic ringleader, Kirksey Nicks. I'm interested in making money. I'm not interested in hurting people. Fifteen years into Kirksey's life sentence, the Dixie Mafia was practically folklore, but that would soon change.

I'm Jed Lipinski. This is Gone South, a documentary podcast from C-13 Originals, a Cadence 13 studio. Season two, The Dixie Mafia available now on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. The listening you love is on the free Odyssey app, your trusted local radio stations, coverage of your favorite teams, live news from your hometown and millions of podcasts on demand. Best of all, you can completely customize your listening experience. Follow topics you care about, like leagues and teams, pause or rewind your local sports and news and add shows to your queue to catch up later. There's a lot to listen to.

So get started and download the free Odyssey app today. Is there something really absurd that skeeves you out? Getting a paper cut on my eyeball? A fear you can't shake? I'm going to leak ocular fluid down my cheeks.

It's going to go into my mouth and I will perish. Whatever scares you, I want to talk about it. Join me, Larry Mullins, on my new podcast, Your Weirdest Fears.

Listen and subscribe to Your Weirdest Fears on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcast from. Coach, last night, and if I had to take you back to 1999, Bob Stoops actually hired Mike Leach to be his OC on Stoops' first staff at Oklahoma. And Bob Stoops is kind enough to join us right now on CBS Sports Radio.

Coach, first off, I wish we were talking under better circumstances. Really appreciate you doing this. And just wanted to send my condolences to you and your family on the passing of your friend in Mike Leach. Yeah, it's a really sad day and thank you, but people just say prayers and continue to pray for Sharon and his children in the Mississippi State community.

It's a terrible, terrible few days, definitely, and we're going to all miss them. I know that this all feels surreal and it clearly doesn't even feel real yet, but when you hear the name Mike Leach, just what comes back to mind with all those memories you have? Just an incredible individual. I know a lot of people say someone's one-of-a-kind. He truly is the definition of one-of-a-kind. He's just a totally unique person and just going to miss the conversations, going to miss seeing him and visiting with him. He was a notorious night owl, so I'm going to miss those midnight phone calls that go to 1.30, 2 in the morning, and none of it's talked about football. So anyway, just smile when I think of him, for sure. We all do that know him. That's the thing. We all can admire what he did as a football coach, but he was just a regular man and never got too big for his own britches, obviously.

You're right, coach. He could talk about anything. All the time. You never knew where the conversation was going to go. When he started pontificating about it, you'd sit there and just listen for 15 minutes before you were able to chime in.

But it was beautiful. Again, just a very insightful guy. Again, we're all going to miss him. If you had to describe his impact on the game of college football that I know you love so much, how would you describe that impact to someone?

It's huge. You just look at the air raid offense. You have to give Hal Mummy some credit here, too. He and Hal were joined at the hip through Valdosta State and Iowa Wesleyan before going to Kentucky.

When I got to Oklahoma, I couldn't hire Hal Mummy, but I thought, if they can do that in Kentucky, why can't we do it here in Oklahoma? So I called Hal and said, hey, can Mike do what you guys have been doing there at Kentucky here at Oklahoma? He didn't hesitate.

He said, absolutely. So I got to talking to Mike and we hired him here. I think we took off here. I think we made it popular, maybe a little bit more at Oklahoma. Then when Mike goes to Tech and continues to move the ball and score so efficiently that it became popular. Then more college teams are doing it. It spread like wildfire through the Texas high school teams.

Then now it's already branched up into the NFL, certain segments of it. So he had a huge impact, but it started with he and Hal Mummy together. Then Mike, again, we made it a little more noticeable here at Oklahoma and Mike at Tech. When you were picking that first staff at Oklahoma and you talked about that relationship and you were the D.C. at Florida and he was the O.C. at Kentucky, what else really drew you to say, OK, that was the guy that we're going to go with? Well, I had the biggest problem, biggest pain in my neck was dealing with Kentucky when I was the D.C. coordinator at Florida.

You look at all the stats, the offensive stats, they were in the top two, three in about every category. So I thought, again, if they can do it there, why can't we do it here at Oklahoma and be something different? No one else in this league or no one else around the country was moving the ball around that way, spreading it out and throwing it like we were sideways and vertically. Fortunately, I made the right decision to bring that style of offense here to Oklahoma and it worked. Bob Stoops here with us as we remember Mike Leach, who unfortunately did pass away last night. You talk about that Oklahoma team in that lone year together in 1999, your familiarity with him. He then quickly becomes a head coach after that one year at Oklahoma, gets the Texas Tech job. Did his success at all surprise you or was it pretty clear, OK, that you had that one year together that this guy could really accomplish a lot?

Oh, no, I wasn't surprised at all. I thought it was a really smart hire by Texas Tech, though I didn't want to lose Mike that quickly, but he got us started. I knew I had some guys that could, with Coach Mangino and his background and bringing a quarterback guy in like Chuck Long, that I could weather the storm of losing Mike, but I didn't want to lose him, but I knew Tech had hired a great coach and Mike would do a great job there and he did. Even though we had a lot of big battles together, we remained very, very close friends and we always had great respect for one another and really always stayed in touch. What stood out to you the most in that one year working together?

Because there's one thing to think that you're getting someone that's really special, and then you find out a lot more about them when you're working day in and day out with someone. Mike was really smart in that he knew there's a lot of good football plays out there, but you can't run them all, so he was going to be great and efficient and disciplined at what he ran, period, and someone might bring up a great play that someone else is running that seemed like it would fit, and he would agree. He'd say, you know what, that is a great play, but then he'd say, but we're not running. So, yeah, that's a great play for them that we're not running it, because that other school might know all the ins and outs of that play.

We're not going to run it not knowing every single detail about it. So the beauty of Mike was minimal play sheet, minimal number of plays, but we're going to be better running them than you're going to be defending them. There's so many great Mike Leach stories, but I think this one is number one for me. 1999, you talk about the play sheet. Tell the story to the listening audience about the fake play sheet that Mike did draw on up and dropped on the field through Trent Smith before Red River between Oklahoma and Texas.

Yeah, I had no idea. I found out later, a week later, not even right after the game, but he had Trent Smith go out with a play call sheet like the first 10 plays or first 12 plays, and he had Trent running around and act like he was tucking it in his belt and let's it slip and intentionally let's it slip through the belt. I don't know if he's near the Texas bench or he's near a couple of Texas, whether it be grad assistants or one of their managers, whoever, and then someone was across the way looking to see if anyone picked it up. And sure enough, the kid picks it up, looks around, and he doesn't see anyone looking at it, so he goes scurry into the Texas locker room.

So they took the bait, and lo and behold, in the first quarter, we're up 17-0, so it must have worked to some degree. Anyhow, it was just one of Mike's tricks. My favorite part about that, because the head coach usually knows everything, is that he was able to do it, and you did not know about it. You said you found out about a week later. How did you find out?

I don't know. The guys, I think some of the other coaches were talking about it, and I go, what the hell happened, and they told me. I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. Yeah, so be it.

There was water under the dam by that point. Anyhow, yeah, there's nobody like him. He's special. He's truly one of a kind, so we're going to all miss him. And it's going to be a day of celebration. I know it's going to be sad as well. On January 2nd, I saw Mississippi State said they're going to play to honor their football coach in that bowl game up against Illinois.

You know how this goes. Obviously, you have your family, then you have your football family, and often they intertwine. I can't imagine what his football family is going through and then also his real family as well. No doubt.

I mean, that's why I said just pray for Sharon and their children and Mississippi State program. No doubt. Mike would want them to play. You know that. That is not to even be discussed.

He would not stand for them not to be out there playing and competing. Yeah, just hard. I don't know. It's been a tough few days. Last thing I'll ask you, Coach Bob Stoops, and I really do appreciate you carving out the time, let's just say in 15, 20 years someone comes up to you and they ask you to just reminisce and really just describe to them who Mike Leach was.

How do you do that? Well, you walk in his office and it's all football and it's on a Monday night. It's 11 o'clock at night and I'm dying to go home.

I'm tired. And I sit there and I'm lectured for an hour about Geronimo. It has nothing to do with playing Texas the next week or I'm going to sit there and I got everything I need to know about Geronimo in that hour. And that's just Mike. He could school you about anything. And he was so interested in everything and researched everything. It was the best, but that's what I got from my OC on a Monday night when we're all talking football. He wants to talk about Geronimo.

One of a kind. There is no doubt about it and we're going to miss Coach Mike Leach. Coach Bob Stoops, I really do appreciate the time. And once again, my condolences to you and your family. And to the Leach family in Mississippi State.

Everyone continue to pray for them. Thank you. Throughout the 60s and 70s, cops hunted down key figures of the Dixie Mafia, including its enigmatic ringleader, Kirksey Nix. I'm in a rush to making money.

I'm not in a rush to hurting people. Fifteen years into Kirksey's life sentence, the Dixie Mafia was practically folklore, but that would soon change. I'm Jed Lipinski. This is Gone South, a documentary podcast from C-13 Originals, a Cadence 13 studio. Season 2, The Dixie Mafia, available now on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. Throughout the 60s and 70s, cops hunted down key figures of the Dixie Mafia, including its enigmatic ringleader, Kirksey Nix. I'm in a rush to making money.

I'm not in a rush to hurting people. Fifteen years into Kirksey's life sentence, the Dixie Mafia was practically folklore, but that would soon change. I'm Jed Lipinski. This is Gone South, a documentary podcast from C-13 Originals, a Cadence 13 studio. Season 2, The Dixie Mafia, available now on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. The listening you love is on the free Odyssey app. Your trusted local radio stations, coverage of your favorite teams, live news from your hometown, and millions of podcasts on demand. Best of all, you can completely customize your listening experience. Follow topics you care about, like leagues and teams. Pause or rewind your local sports and news, and add shows to your queue to catch up later.

There's a lot to listen to, so get started and download the free Odyssey app today. You're listening to The Zach Gelb Show. So, that is just devastating, horrible. I know that the Cardinals are not having the season that they wanted to, but this not only, I don't want to say it impacts this season, because what does the final four weeks of the season mean for the Cardinals?

Nothing. But it impacts next season for Arizona. And for next year, we don't know if Kliff Kingsbury is going to be back. I would probably assume, I would have said maybe before last night, no.

I probably would have said last night, no, Hickey. But now, with Murray going down, and you weren't with DeAndre Hopkins for the first six weeks of the season, when you just gave Kliff Kingsbury an extension through 2027, same for Steve Keim, and you know that the finances are in play to some extent here, and Kyler Murray's not going anywhere because he signed the deal and that goes against the cap and all that. But when it comes to your coach and your general manager, there was definitely a feeling that there was a good chance that both of them, if not just for starters, Kliff Kingsbury would be out at the end of the year. I could see Michael Bidwell, Hickey, now saying, all right, we were without Hopkins the first six weeks. Basically, without Kyler Murray, if you include last night the final five weeks of the season, even though this season was already a disaster, talking himself into bringing back Kliff Kingsbury and then also Steve Keim because of the way that the extensions were just playing on out.

I'm going to shift my tune there. If you would ask me yesterday, I would say, yeah, he's out. He's gone. He probably still should be gone, but now I could see them kind of having enough excuses at their disposal, where they shouldn't matter, but maybe they will in terms of keeping Kliff Kingsbury around for another season. This, I think, almost feels in one way a blessing in disguise for the Cardinals.

This allows them to hit the reset button completely. You have to go under the assumption that Kyler Murray will miss all of next year. So he's out this year. He's out all of next year. Maybe the whole year. This Cardinals team stinks, right? We talked about that. They're 4-9.

You need to reset almost the entire thing. Are you talking about the quarterback too? No. Quarterback is locked in. Because I was going to say, the GM and coach you could get rid of because that's not going to count against the cap. You're just going to be paying two GMs and two coaches.

He is there. So now if you were in on going all in. I was about to say, Hickey, the dead cap next year, and I know you can move that number around. It's not as firm as we once thought it was, is $97 million for Kyler Murray next year.

I was like, well, this is your hottest take ever. And his trade value is zero now with his injury. I still think there would be a team that would eventually trade for him for a young quarterback. So you can now at least design a team with Kyler Murray being the front and center guy. Get a new GM that can actually build a roster. Offensive line. Get a defense.

Players actually can stay on the field and contribute. Because right now it feels like everything is destroyed. But weren't they already trying to do that? And it was failing. They were building, though, in the mindset that Kyler Murray is the guy. And last year it got off to a really good start. And it was ugly down the stretch. And then going into this season, yeah, you didn't look at that team as if they were a big threat. You probably said if everything goes right. And I don't remember if we put the Cardinals in the playoffs or not before the start.

You have to go back and look at it. But at best we said one and done. It seemed like their apex going into the season, even though it was unlikely, was to just get to the wildcard round and then get embarrassed once again. Since week 10 of last year, they've been one of the worst teams in the NFL.

Now? Again, Kyler Murray is not going to be there next year, most likely. If he's back early, great, fine.

But you've got to assume he's not. Considering some of the long-term ACL rehabs we've seen of late, especially for a running quarterback. This is your excuse to have next year embrace the suck, get a high draft pick, get a new GM, get a new head coach in the air, and retool this thing.

Because if not, you're going to just drag it out. Next year's a wash. Anyway, even if Kyler Murray comes back, it's a wash. And now you're talking about 2024, figuring out what you've got. Then maybe there, if it doesn't work out because Cliff's not a very good coach and Steve Keim's not been a very good GM, then you're going to hit the reset button.

At that point, what would it be? 28, 29-year-old quarterback? Not reset with Kyler Murray, but reset the entire team around him. If you're wearing it down, wouldn't you kind of let Cliff Kingsbury and Steve Keim take the bullets for another year and then move on a year from now? I would say next year's a lost cause. After next year with Kyler Murray not there. Why would it be harder to fire them a year from now?

Because your excuse is right there. You don't have a quarterback. Yeah, but you could still say that, let's say they bring in a Jacoby Brissette and they bring in, I don't know, Jimmy Garoppolo. You could always fire someone. It just saves you a year of the finances. Now, I always live by this philosophy when it comes to rich people.

I know that everyone still likes to save money, and you don't want to pay someone for not doing something. But I don't think it should be, now it may end up being the reason why they keep their job, but if you think someone isn't good enough at their job and your only justification for keeping them is, okay, let me talk into Murray not being in the final five weeks of the season and DeAndre missing the first six. But the real root of that justification would be, I don't want to be paying two GMs and two coaches. I do kind of think that if Michael Bidwell is in the interest of turning the ship around and eventually winning a Super Bowl, you trim the fat now.

And yeah, it stinks you have to bite the bullet and pay two coaches. I don't know if he's going to do that. And I'm leaning more that Cliff's going to be back next year, even though he shouldn't. And the weird way this whole thing plays out is, Kyler Murray, now with him getting hurt, how much does his voice matter?

Since, like you're saying, there's a big shot that he's not going to play next year. I'm talking about for directly next year, Kyler Murray's not really going to have to deal with Cliff Kingsbury. And it seems like they keep on butting heads more and more and more and Kyler's getting frustrated with Cliff. Now, how much is that him actually being frustrated with Cliff, or just frustrated with his own play and he wants to blame it on someone else?

That's a different topic of conversation. But now, as you're basically saying it with Kyler for a year out of mind, I wonder if that determines another reason why Cliff is going to be back. You just said before, for me, I don't believe in Cliff Kingsbury. No one's saying that this guy's a really good coach. What are you going to bring back for next year if he doesn't deserve it?

What's the point? But what I'm asking you is, with Kyler going down, and his voice for next year basically meaning nothing, Kyler Murray clearly is not getting along with Cliff Kingsbury right now. I wonder with him getting hurt, if Michael Bidwell just goes, OK, Kyler, you don't like him, we're going to bring him back for another year, and then we'll see what happens there. And then you could, and then in Michael Bidwell's mind, you will evaluate how Cliff Kingsbury's going to coach without Kyler Murray, and then you could maybe say, OK, I see what Kyler's saying, because Kyler's out of the picture, we see his importance, if it goes the way that we think next year is going to go, and since he's showing he's not really that good of a coach, then you fire him, and then you save the extra year. I'm in agreement with you. I don't think the guy is a good coach.

I don't. He's clearly overrated. They should not have extended him through 2027. I know he's going into a lame duck year. You want to give him one extra year? I could have got that, but to go through 2027 seemed like an extreme, but I got to think that the money, with just giving him extension last year, that's going to, I think that does factor in now, and it makes it now with Kyler going down almost easier to keep him around for next year, in my opinion.

I think the only reason you keep him around is if, not even that, if the head coach opening or your team's opening is not as attractive, because Kyler's out for next year. So let's say you want Sean Payton. Sean Payton's interested. Well, likely Sean Payton will probably, you would think, not take the job next year.

I don't think Sean was taking the job anyway. Kyler Murray to me, do I look at him and say he's a great quarterback? I think his ceiling's just being very good, like being a borderline top 10. Maybe he thinks he can get the most talent out of him.

He likes his skills. Like, we don't know what Sean Payton thinks. We'll find out at some point. Yeah, but if you're Sean Payton and you could have the pick of the litter, aren't you going for the sure thing? Kyler Murray's not a sure thing. With what I've seen so far, Kyler Murray's not a sure thing.

Well, what makes you so sure that the charges will be open? Like, if we're talking about Justin Herbert being a sure thing, you're right. Well, I do think Justin Herbert's a sure thing.

No, I'm agreeing with you. I'm saying, especially compared to Kyler Murray, I would definitely take Justin Herbert with Kyler Murray. The only thing is, I don't know if Sean Payton's going to have the opening available to take the job. If the Chargers make the playoffs and they lose in the first round, let's say they're 10-7 and they lose in the first round, Sean Payton calls you, calls the Spanos family and says, I want that job. You're keeping Brandon Staley for, I know it's his second year, ups and downs.

They limp into, you know, they get into the postseason, 10-7. A guy that's been a Super Bowl winning coach wants to go join your organization and who is a top five coach in the league when he coaches, you're going to tell him no for an unknown and Brandon Staley? I'm not, but do I trust the Spanos family to make that decision?

I absolutely don't. Now, here's the other thing. They might not want to pay two coaches. If you're Sean Payton and your argument is, OK, that job's not opening up and Kyler Murray's not going to be there anyway next year.

If you're Sean, you may want to wait a year. Most importantly, I'm saying if you're the Cardinals, you made the only, for me, the only reason to wait to keep Cliff Kingsbury one more season is because right now your job is going to be more attractive when Kyler is back in 2024 compared to opening up now in 2023 with a quarterback that probably won't be there for most of the year, if not all the year. Now, I usually like continuity in terms of you get rid of the coach, you get rid of the GM. I actually think it's more important, though, and you could give the GM one year with Cliff. I do think it's actually more important to get rid of Steve Keim this offseason than Cliff Kingsbury.

I'm with you. Because next year's a lost cause anyway, and right now, if the season ended tomorrow, the Arizona Cardinals have the sixth overall pick. I'm not trusting Steve Keim anymore to make that right selection. So that's why, if you're going to say, money, we don't want to get rid of both, I would get rid of Keim before I get rid of Cliff Kingsbury and then a year from now get rid of Cliff. But maybe they wipe them both out. Maybe they do. I'm not going to say it's not on the table, but I do think with Kyler going down the Hopkins, there's enough excuses out there for Michael Bidwell to, for him, justify at least keeping one of them.

And also, by the way, we'll get into this later on in the show. The Patriots approach on offense, it's been annoying me the entire season. For anyone that says Mac Jones sucks, I don't know what you're watching. I'm not telling you the guy's great, but they're not putting him in a position to succeed. And I had it with Matt Patricia when he was brought back.

So this is now very old, sitting here after week 14. But if Bill Belichick brings back Patricia next year as the offensive coordinator, or whatever title they're not giving him, but what he's doing. Even though Bill lost me going into this year, he'll really lose me going into next year. You've got to get a legit play caller and I don't know, maybe a legit number one wide receiver. Because Mac is frustrated at Patricia.

And you could tell he's frustrated with the lack of pieces around him because he knows that he's not being put in a position to succeed and he's still getting evaluated as such. Is there something really absurd that skeeves you out? Getting a paper cut on my eyeball? A fear you can't shake? I'm going to leak ocular fluid down my cheeks.

It's going to go into my mouth and I will perish. Whatever scares you, I want to talk about it. Join me, Larry Mullins, on my new podcast, Your Weirdest Fears. Listen and subscribe to Your Weirdest Fears on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcast from. There's a lot to listen to.

So get started and download the free Odyssey app today. Is there something really absurd that skeeves you out? Getting a paper cut on my eyeball? A fear you can't shake? I'm going to leak ocular fluid down my cheeks.

It's going to go into my mouth and I will perish. Whatever scares you, I want to talk about it. Join me, Larry Mullins, on my new podcast, Your Weirdest Fears. Listen and subscribe to Your Weirdest Fears on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcast from.