The Western Conference Finals Is Over (Hour 1)

Live from the police show yet not overly ostentatious studios of the Infinity Sports Network here in beautiful New York City, sitting on top of the 10 floor 345 Hudson Street. Welcome on in to a Friday edition of the Zach Gelb show across all the great local Infinity Sports Network affiliate Sirius XM channel 375, the free Odyssey app and as always streaming on YouTube. You can always get at me on Instagram where I'm straight flexing or via the good old cesspool of Twitter at Zach Gelb.

That's Z A C H G E L B. We'll have two in studio guests today. Joe Varden, who does a great job covering the NBA for the athletic will be in the building tonight for Nixon Pacers game two at the world's most famous arena, Madison Square Garden. Will join us on the show in studio 20 minutes from now and then at the top of the hour, former NFL player Solomon Wilcox will grace us with his presence right here in our Infinity Sports Network studio.

So a whole lot to do today. The Western Conference finals is over. I know that people are going to tell me right every cliche talk show host and every generic talk show host. They're going to be like, Oh, well, you know, the other team really doesn't face pressure and they shouldn't get worried until they drop it on their home court. The Minnesota Timberwolves in the first two games of this series, they've lost by 26. They've lost by 15.

And I don't want to say it should start to be time because I already think we're past what it should have been in terms of it commencing. But as long as the Oklahoma City Thunder go on to win this NBA championship, so that would be to get six more victories, they should. I don't know if they will because perception wise, right? You think of some of the greatest teams of all time. You think of the Bulls with Michael Jordan. You think of the Lakers with Shaq and Kobe. You think of the Warriors with Steph Curry and Kevin Durant.

You go to Laker, great Lakers teams in the 80s and the Celtics right in the 70s, 80s. You remember like these iconic names. And I don't think yet Shay Gildas Alexander is an iconic name, even though he's having an iconic season.

And you even look back at recent history. There's a difference in being one of the best players in the league and being an MVP of the league with Shay Gildas Alexander is now and then being the face of the league. Like look recently at some of the NBA champions that we saw. Yana's on to the Kumba with the Milwaukee Bucks. He is a phenomenal player.

Nicole Jokic of the Denver Nuggets. I think he's already one of the 20 best players I've ever seen. But when Nicole Jokic won a championship, when Yana's on to the Kumba won a championship, no one is going to refer to those two players as the face of the league. You may say they're the best player in the league, but not the face of the league.

And I think Shay Gildas Alexander is going to go into that conversation of an MVP, a great player. Everyone loves him. Everyone respects him. But he's not polarizing, right? He's not Michael Jordan. He's not Kobe Bryant. He's not Shaquille O'Neal. He's not, you know, a Kevin Durant or a Steph Curry.

And that almost I think hurts SGA, which is nothing that he did wrong. And if you're in this conversation, it's a pretty damn good one to be in. But he could go on to win a championship. And even though they're in the midst of having a historically great season, they have 60 wins this year. It's tied for the most of all time. 60 wins by at least 10 plus points. They have 60 double digit wins. Think about that. That is not just stupid good. That is stupid all time great. But no one is really sitting here and saying right now, oh, I kind of look at and think of the Oklahoma City Thunder as one of the all time great teams.

And maybe they will age out to be one. They still have to get six more wins. But I am so confident right now.

And I was not confident going into this series. I actually thought, OK, Anthony Edwards trying to be the face of the league. Everyone keeps on saying, oh, he's the next face of the league, right? I've said it. You've said it.

We've all said it. But Anthony Edwards, even though he's a phenomenal player, he's got to have moments. And last year in the Western Conference Finals, when they were supposed to beat the Dallas Mavericks, they didn't get the job done this year.

They're not expected to win, but do the unexpected. And in Game 1, Anthony Edwards was a disgrace in the fourth quarter with the big fat zero on the stat sheet. And then last night, I know statistically he had a good game, but his team didn't win. And they got smacked around in Games 1 and Games 2 where they lost Game 1 by 26 points and the Thunder in the third quarter were just ridiculous. And then last night it was 15 point victory. And you know what's crazy about last night?

How quickly that game got out of reach. So last night I went out to dinner with Josh Boudy, who joined us in studio yesterday, and we went to Mineta Tavern, which is a phenomenal and I mean a phenomenal burger spot in New York City. It's a French restaurant, one of the best burgers I've ever had. Like, Mineta Tavern is sensational. We had a nine o'clock reservation at Mineta Tavern last night. So we went to the bar right next to Mineta Tavern and, you know, we had a few pops at about eight o'clock. Started to watch the game that started about 830, 845, whatever it was.

And then this place, it's literally across the street from Mineta Tavern. So at 859, we got up, we walked over, we sat down and we had like a two hour dinner. So at the end of the dinner and we were watching the game on Josh's phone for the first half and a little bit of the third quarter, like we're paying the bill and it's a five point game. It's a five point game.

And from the time we paid the bill till we went back to the bar, which is right across the street, like 15 feet away and sat back down. The game was 15 to 18 points in terms of the deficit. And the moment that you saw OKC get up to 15 to eight, even though there would be times with the Timberwolves to cut it back down to 10, you never thought that Minnesota was going to win that game. So you look at the Western Conference Finals.

I don't think it's premature. I don't think it's one of those things where you're like, you're sitting there, you go, oh, you're going to jinx them or oh, you're putting the cart before the horse. How can anyone right now of what this Oklahoma City Thunder team has done all year long? And now Shay Gilders Alexander just won the MVP. How can anyone sit here and tell me that the Minnesota Timberwolves are going to find a way down 0-2 to beat this team four times?

Unless if SGA gets hurt. That's the only way I could see the Minnesota Timberwolves coming on back in this series. And you know, we learned about the Timberwolves the last two years because now we've seen two different iterations of them.

They got limitations. Like last year, they were a team that didn't come out of nowhere, but it was not expected for them to be in the Western Conference Finals. And then when they got to the Western Conference Finals, they didn't do their job up against the Dallas Mavericks, a team that many of us thought they were going to be.

This year, though, they made changes. They got rid of Carl Anthony Towns. They brought in Julius Randle.

They brought in Dante DiVincenzo. And even after that offseason of big changes, the regular season was ho-hum, right? They had 49 wins in the regular season. They were game behind the Lakers. It wasn't as if they were this team that we were raving about, but they didn't need to be a team that you were raving about in the regular season.

And they couldn't play off time. They won the first series up against the Lakers, and everyone got back in. They won the second series. And now here they are in the Conference Finals, and they don't even look like they belong in the same court as the Oklahoma City Thunder. And maybe there's not a team in the NBA this year that belonged to the same court as the Oklahoma City Thunder. Now, it was viewed as, going into this postseason, the three best teams in the NBA were the Cavs, the Celtics, and the Oklahoma City Thunder. Well, the Thunder have done their job. The Thunder in the last round, they took down a team that won a championship in the Denver Nuggets.

The Oklahoma City Thunder are now two wins away from going to the NBA Finals. We know that the Boston Celtics lost to the New York Knicks. And the New York Knicks ended up being the Boston Celtics in six games. And you take a look back at the Cleveland Cavaliers, they fell to the Indiana Pacers. So I would say going into the Conference Finals, the teams, and this is how I did rank them, in order to win a championship, the likelihood, I would have said it was the two teams out west. I had the Thunder 1, I'd have the Timberwolves 2, the New York Knicks 3, and the Indiana Pacers 4. Quite frankly, if I could redo that, you'd have to put the Timberwolves 4.

And it's for two reasons. Not only are the Minnesota Timberwolves not going to beat the Oklahoma City Thunder, where the Knicks pace their series, it's one game. The Knicks had a humiliating loss. They blew a 14-point lead with 245 to go.

It's just still, you can't even believe it. And we'll see if the Knicks can get off the mat tonight. But even if the Timberwolves still found a way, and let's say I didn't see these first two games and the Timberwolves ended up winning this series, are they necessarily a team that I'm going to believe are going to beat either the New York Knicks or the Indiana Pacers? I don't think they're ready to win a championship right now. And forget about an NBA Finals, I don't see how they're going to beat the preeminent team in the league. And I think all throughout the year, people were afraid to fully embrace two teams. It was the Thunder and it was the Cavs. And the big reason why people didn't embrace them is because they haven't done it yet.

And they haven't done it yet when it matters. But you look at the Western Conference, it is clear by far and away the Thunder were the best team in the Western Conference all year long. And any time people would say, oh, they can't win a championship or they won't win a championship, I would say why. And they would say inexperience. You need a few more years of tough playoff losses before you can win a championship.

And I say nonsense to that. You look at the Western Conference, Golden State, the Lakers, they patched things together. Now you're seeing the Timberwolves get exposed, the Clippers you knew were never going to get the job done when it actually mattered. You know, Denver fired their coach and their GM three games before the postseason started.

It was almost like all throughout the year, people were just parachuting and jumping and hopping from one team to the next, to the next, to the next, to the next. Just so you wouldn't have to embrace and just so you wouldn't have to love what OKC was doing. And in the East, it was OK, the Cavs are playing great for pound per pound. If you thought that the Celtics had the best roster, at least the Celtics are defending champion, you know, and they just won it a year ago.

So that's why I could see why people would go the Celtics over the Cavs. But in reality, the Celtics or the Cavs ended up getting there. And you have the grittiness of the Pacers and the grittiness of the Knicks now battling out.

And that was an epic game, one of the Easter Conference finals. So this Oklahoma City team, and I know I felt this way before, and we've seen 2-0 comebacks happen before. Remember when the Suns are up 2-0, up against the Bucs in the NBA finals, and the Bucs ended up winning four straight. And you look at that Bucs team, you had Giannis on to the Kumpa, you had closer Chris Middleton, you had Drew Holliday. You look at this Timberwolves team, last night they needed to win.

Last night was a must win. And if you're someone that's going to sit there today and tell me, Zach, this series isn't over, I'll just ask you this simple question. This series shifts to Minnesota, games three and games four. When you look at game three and game four, how many do you think the Timberwolves are actually going to win? Like, how could you tell me right now, how could you look at me in the eyes right now, and tell me, without laughing, that the Minnesota Timberwolves are going to win both games three and four at home?

You can't do it with a straight face. And I'm not telling you that they're going to get swept, and they could get swept. Because that was a team that wasn't even playing at their best for the first half of the game, and they just turned it up in the third quarter in Oklahoma City, and they won the game by 15 damn points. How are you going to tell me that team, when they smell blood, and they deliver these two massive punches, winning by 26 and 15 in the first two games, how are you going to tell me that team isn't going to find the way to win one game in three or four in Minnesota? This is not going to 2-2. This is, at best, if you're a Timberwolves fan, you're going to be down 3-1. And honestly, now, maybe it's a gentleman's sweep. Maybe.

Like, I will probably be nice and I'll predict a gentleman's sweep. But everything told me what I needed to know about the Timberwolves, and now it's two years in a row. They have limitations. They're a team that just get to the conference finals, and for whatever the reasons are, they just don't have enough to get to the top. You know, you look at the Buffalo Bills, right? We've seen this in sports before. You look at the New York Rangers, who in the last few years have been the two conference finals.

The Bills have had some epic games up against the Chiefs. And you look at those teams, and you believe in those teams, and you think they can get the job done, and then when push comes to shove, that they can't. So, Minnesota, all throughout the year, you believe in them. You don't believe in them. You believe in them.

Now you're back to not believing in them. But down 0-2, even if I'm trying to be positive, I got no glimmer of hope that's going to make me think that this team is capable of not only even making it 2-2, finding a way to win four games in this series. Oklahoma City Thunder is the best team. Oklahoma City Thunder should win the championship.

And, right, injuries could happen, and things could get nasty, and they still got to go win six more games. But when I saw the first two games of this series, it's night-night time for the Minnesota Timberwolves, and they're going to bow out in the conference finals for back-to-back seasons. All right, it is the Zach Gelb Show on the Infinity Sports Network. Joe Vardon's going to join us on the other side, NBA writer for the Athletic. He will join us in studio. We'll get his thoughts on the first two games of the Western Conference Finals, what's going to happen tonight at Madison Square Garden in Game 2, and also check in on some potential free agency news regarding Giannis Antetokounmpo and even LeBron James.

All righty, welcome back in. It's the Infinity Sports Network, and it's the Zach Gelb Show. You got Game 2 tonight at the world's most famous arena, Madison Square Garden, as we'll see if the Knicks could get off the mat after they did something that was just shocking in Game 1, up 14 points with 245 to play. And I still can't believe that they didn't win the game, but, hey, the Pacers have been unbelievable in these post-season run with having these comebacks. And you saw last night the Oklahoma City Thunder just do what they've done all year long, and that's win games by double digits.

Now they're up 2-0 with a commanding 2-0 series lead up against the Minnesota Timberwolves. Now joining us in studio, NBA writer for The Athletic, and that, of course, is Joe Vardin kind enough to join us right now on the show. Joe, appreciate the time.

Thanks so much for doing this. How you been? I've been okay.

New York's treated me well. Yeah, we appreciate you coming on in. Let me start you off with this. So last night, you see an Oklahoma City Thunder team where it gets down to like five or six points. You go, okay, maybe we're going to have a good second half. And then the third quarter was just so lopsided, and the second half ended up being so lopsided.

Sixty. Now double-digit wins this year for the Thunder, which is tied for an NBA record, which is just stupid good. Stupid great, I should say.

You can't even say good anymore. It feels inevitable at this point that they're going to the NBA Finals. Yeah, I mean, like we were saying off air, you hate to not give a team a chance to win some games at home and get back in a series. But the Thunder, I mean, we have to be honest about this. They were one of the great regular-season teams of all time. I do believe they set an NBA record for point differential. So they beat their opponents worse than any team in NBA history. They have the leading scorer in the league who is a sneaky two-way player.

He's averaging over a steal on a block per game, or at least he did during the regular season. And they're deep. You know, they can run. They can play in the half-court. So, yeah, I mean, when you look at the bracket, you know, I think the Thunder not only feel good about where they are in this series, but I think they're going to be looking forward to either matchup in the Finals. Would you agree now that the NBA is faceless? Because what I mean by that is everyone's like, who's the next face of the NBA? Nicole Jokic and Giannis Antetokounmpo are two of the best players in the league. But I don't think they're face of the NBA kind of guys because they just don't have a polarizing personality.

Everyone turns to Anthony Edwards, and the last two years, right, it looks like they're going to lose back-to-back conference finals. So he has to have a championship moment first before you really can consider him that. Like, is SGA now going to be the face of the league? Or do you think it's more so the joker and Giannis' path with him if he wins a championship?

I don't think it's any of the above. I am of the belief that the face of the NBA has to be an American unless it's Victor Wabunyama. I think just his skill set is so transcendent. And he is, you know, he's got some cachet to him. He's like an alien. He is, but he's also like being foreign born. Like, his English is beautiful.

It's better than mine. And so I do think that he has a chance. But otherwise, no, I think this is a real problem for the league from a business standpoint. You know, whether it is like the pronunciation of some of the last names from some of the players. Or, you know, the spellings.

Or their lack of interest in doing some of the marketing deals. Or whatever it takes. You know, that star behind LeBron. Behind Durant.

Behind Curry. From an American side that just hasn't quite caught on. And you know, I go back to the way that Adam Silver addressed the Ja Morant situation. I think part of that was because they were hoping that he could rebound. To be this next guy. And obviously that hasn't come to fruition.

So yeah, I mean the league is definitely looking for that next, you know, flagship figure. And at this point it just feels like it's safe to say with the Timberwolves that they have limitations. Like we saw them last year get to the conference finals. Many people thought they were going to beat the Mavericks. Didn't get the job done. You make the big trade this offseason. You bring in Julius Rando, Dante DiVincenzo.

You say goodbye to Cat. So they retooled it. Regular season. It wasn't the greatest regular season I've seen in the world.

But they didn't need it to be. Postseason time after they beat the Lakers. Everyone's like, okay. All back in on the Timberwolves. And sure, the Thunder are a better team.

But two years in a row to lose to the conference finals. It's like, hmm. Can't really believe in Minnesota to end up getting to an NBA Finals now until they do so. Yeah, I mean that's assuming this all goes the way it looks like now.

How we think it's going to go. Yeah, I mean that would be the discussion. You know, I was one of the co-authors of at least the athletic story about Ant being the next face of the league.

Like, maybe it's him. And, you know, my part of the reporting came from what people were saying about him in the Team USA program. And sort of how he had learned while he was under, you know, the tutelage of Steve Kerr and Grant Hill and so on and so forth. But the game hasn't quite, quite material. I mean, he's an All-Star. So we're not saying he stinks. But the game hasn't quite taken that next step. We can pump the brakes on the Jordan comparison.

Like, I had Marbury and so he's like, it reminds me a little bit like Jordan. And I'm like, okay, that's great. You got to get there. Yeah, and then he's also said that he's not interested in this. Yeah, true. You know, and I think that's part of it. You have to have sort of the mental makeup slash interest to handle the business side of being the face of the league.

I know that about it. Joe Vardon, studio with us from The Athletic. All right, let's shift series as we get to Knicks and Pacers. What do you think the response tonight will be from the Knicks? I know they haven't lost back-to-back games this postseason, but to lose that way, it was a garden party for the majority of that game.

And then you got hit in the mouth like you had no clue what happened in the final three minutes. You know, there is such a, there's a traditional, in these playoff series, there's a traditional period of adjustment between games one and two. And the Knicks, as you've alluded to, for 46 minutes, they had it pretty well squared away. You know, I mean, they were able, it seemed like they were dealing with the Pacers' pressure. They were certainly able to get into the lane against Indiana's defense. The Knicks were making threes. Brunson, despite the five fouls, was scoring.

And Cat had a really nice game. So, you know, I think the adjustment is don't allow Aaron Niesmith to make six threes in five minutes. You know, I think we have to remember that the Knicks are where they are because they took advantage of a situation the way that the Pacers did the other night. Boston just had these, like, huge lapses in offensive execution.

And I would say judgment in the fourth quarter of those first two games. And the Knicks were able to capitalize. So I think the Knicks are guarding against that, just making sure that they close the door this time, that they don't allow for that comeback.

Well, that's why this may sound funny to say. I think the Knicks, if I was right on the team, I'd actually maybe prefer a close game wire to wire tonight. Because if that gets up to 15 tonight, I've been to the Garden for many big events.

That will be a nervous crowd. And the moment one shot misses or two shot misses up 15, it will be here we go again. Where if you look at the Celtics, right, game one, they blew that 20 point lead and they were up big again by 20 in game two.

And the same thing happened. And that building, TD Garden, was very nervous in that game two. Yeah, I mean, you know, you certainly in a game that went the way it did, like, we're not making any judgments about who is going to win the series. The Knicks certainly have the toughness to do it.

They have a great player in Brunson. And I think Kat is going to be able to continue to play like how he's played. The word of caution is, whatever happens tonight, just you have to find a way to not mess this up. Because history tells us that if you are the home team in a series and you lose the first two games, you're going to lose. There's only been five teams in NBA history who have come back from that. So when you get to a conference finals, if the Knicks don't take care of business tonight, they'll be down 0-2 against a game Pacers team.

And I don't like that scenario. So when we get to Tyrese Halliburton and he was voted right by his peers as the most overrated player, he shut people up real quickly about that this postseason as this team back to back years in the conference finals. How far should we be willing to go in the praise of a Tyrese Halliburton?

Well, I don't think that he is that transcendent star. You know, I wrote a little bit about this today. When they traded for him, they made sure to build him up and put him in some situations that they thought would pay off later on down the line like now. And it has. But they also built around him the proper way. The players that are around Tyrese make him better and also play a system to where he can help them as well.

So he's the best player on their team, but the pieces that they've lined up around him make him stronger and make them, you know, certainly the best system team that's left in this tournament. And we're on the theme of disrespect. Tom Thibodeau, Tibbs, this guy, back to back 51 seasons, the first time the Knicks have done it since Pat Riley was the coach. All the guys done has got this team back to respectability. It's amazing to me, and I say this as a Knicks fan, how Knicks fans, every time they lose, he's the first person that they blame. Like, game one, I get it.

You're going to be upset. I don't put that on the coach. No one decided to defend the three-point shot. He'll leave Neesmith open.

Sure, he'll go hit six, seven threes. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, I mean, there had been talks about, like, Tibbs maybe being on his way out, you know, after this year.

Yeah, I never bought that. That was a hard one to fathom, especially when you considered who they were talking about for a replacement, additional, like, old-school-style coaches. Just, you have the original, who's done nothing but win here since he's been in New York. I love Michael Malone, but, like, we talk about this in football all the time. If you fire a defensive coordinator that was a head coach that ended up being a head coach, you usually go hire an offensive-minded coach. To go get rid of Tibbs and bring in Michael Malone, it's two demanding kind of coaches you would think you'd go like a younger, player-friendly, Adelman kind of figure that you're seeing in Denver.

That's exactly right. And so I just, it just doesn't make sense to me. But I think getting the Knicks to the conference finals in a year where that was not expected should buy him time. All right. Joe Vardon here with us for a few more minutes in studio. NBA writer for The Athletic does a great job. One more on the four teams remaining, and we'll get to some offseason stuff, is there's a lot of rumors that are already starting to be on out there. Get him back to the Thunder, though. If they go on to win six more games, and, right, we talk about the point differential, we talk about the double-digit victories. Do you think they'll go down as an all-time great team? Because SGA is unbelievable, but, right, he's not a Jordan, he's not Kobe, he's not Shaq, like KD, Steph Curry. Some of these names that, like, are iconic that you remember. Can that at all hurt them just because of how great this team has been all year long?

I don't know. I guess when I think about discussions of all-time great teams, you know, you think about the Bulls team that won 70 and you think about, I was going to say the Warriors team that won 73, but actually that team lost. Yeah, they lost. They lost to Cleveland.

So, you know, to me, those discussions more center around dynasties. I think from an individual, like, year-by-year perspective, yes, I mean, the Thunder, as I mentioned, they were already there from a regular season standpoint with the MVP. If they finish off the Timberwolves and then whoever out of the East, yeah, it's one of the greater, it's one of the better NBA seasons ever.

But with the depth that they have over there and the flexibility that they have with pieces to make trades, they have a chance to build on whatever they end up doing this year. And I think that is what will ultimately define the Thunder. All right, let's get to LeBron.

Obviously, you cover him for a long time doing this in Cleveland and also now nationally for the Athletic. His future, I was watching an Athletic podcast the other day and they're like, oh, the relationship with the Lakers has been frosty, we know there's a player option this summer. Do you think there's any chance LeBron is not back with the Lakers this upcoming season? No, I don't.

And I, you know, I have certainly chosen this as my hill to die on. For years, I have said that LeBron will retire in Los Angeles. I've always said this because of how comfortable he is living in L.A. That's where his children are. That's where his wife wants to be. LeBron is not the kind of guy that wants to live away from home for six months out of the year, especially when he has a daughter who is 10-ish now, I think, living there in Los Angeles. So all of those things are still in play. Bronny James will be in year two on the Lakers and he loves that. Like, he's not going to just walk away from that.

There's also, there's two more issues. There's the money component. You know, LeBron has always said that he will be a max player no matter what. The league, you know, the number escapes me because I just haven't thought about it in a minute, but this new, the new TV deal for the league is worth however many billions. And LeBron, rightfully so, feels that he played a major role in that contract. That he has made the NBA worth what it is to these TV partners.

And so he's going to want to make sure that he cashes in on that. So I don't see a scenario where LeBron declines this player option and goes to a place like Cleveland for the minimum. But now he's like, he's the one piece that that franchise is missing and he wins and he rides off into the sunset. Like, some amazing story like that. I don't see it because LeBron is somebody who wants to be paid what he feels he's owed.

Okay, there's one more thing. I think he loves playing with Luka Doncic. I think that Luka is the most dynamic teammate that he's ever had. When Luka and Kyrie got together, they didn't make the playoffs that first year.

People were talking about it. But Luka is shy. When he gets partnered with a true star, he wants to allow that other star to thrive first. You know, the Lakers did make the playoffs. It didn't work out against the Timberwolves. But I expect you will see a more committed Luka with LeBron playing off of him next year. How much longer do you think LeBron is going to play? I've always been in the mindset you'll know when it's LeBron's final season because it will be a retirement tour that you have never seen before, in my opinion. Yeah, I think that's true. I think that you'll see a situation where he announces that this will be his final year whenever that announcement comes.

And yes, he will be honored at every building where that will be his last game. You asked when. I strongly believe that this coming season, so that would be 25-26, was going to be it.

To the point where I almost could report that. But I couldn't quite get it there when I had heard that. And then now, with Luka in the fold, that could extend him. So I don't know what we're going to hear from LeBron this year if he decides that he's got one more year left or if he leaves it open-ended. He'll turn 41. He's still playing at an absurdly high level for that age. I don't know if he wants to play until he's no longer that good.

And I don't know what's left in it for him. If he knows what he wants to do next, then maybe that speeds it up. But I just think the Luka factor is the main thing. If he feels like that opens his championship window from 0 to maybe 1 or 2, then maybe he tries to ride that out. From a human standpoint, it kind of just feels right now, he'll give this Luka thing a full season this year and then one more season after that. I would just guess, no sources or anything, it would be two more years to get LeBron, barring the fact that there's a huge injury or something like that, you get LeBron for two more years.

Yeah, I think that's possible. People also talk about the Bryce James situation. I knew what was coming with Brony.

I was concerned. I thought that Brony had not been the best player on his own team for years. And I was really concerned about how it would go for him once he got in the NBA.

I was pleasantly surprised. He actually improved in the G League, came back a little bit stronger of a player than he was. I think that Brony is probably good enough to make a team's bench on his own, which is great. So Bryce is behind that. Skill-wise, he is not as developed as Brony was.

He's a little taller. He's going to a blue chip program, obviously, at Arizona. Is he ready to handle what Bryce handled in one year from now? I'm just not sure about that, but that could weigh into LeBron's decision as well. Let me get your thoughts on Giannis Antetokounmpo. I have been a staunch defender of keeping Giannis in Milwaukee, but now I don't see, if he wants to win another championship, I don't see at this point why he would stay. I think they've hit a dead end, especially with the Dame injury, and there's really no way for them to climb out of it in the immediate future to get them back to winning a championship.

Well, I think that's true. I do wonder, I want to throw this out there in addition to everything you said that's right, and then the suitors that are going to be out there for him could offer him the chance to win next year, but the math in the East has changed. It changed during the Knicks series with Boston when Jason Tatum went down.

Contrary to what anybody says, that's a year injury. So the Celtics are going to be without their best player, already facing a massive bill for their payroll, so that they might dismantle some part of that team already, and is Tatum the same when he comes back a year from now? That could weigh on Giannis. He could say, you know, the path back to winning in the East isn't as difficult as I thought it may have been, but there are suitors. I mean, you look at Brooklyn, you look at Oklahoma City, you look at San Antonio and Houston. The Warriors throw their names into the ring there, so there's all kinds of teams that you think are closer or maybe would be closer if they had Giannis, but he's a loyal guy, he's very comfortable in Milwaukee, and there still is probably a path where they decide to keep him. I know it's tough to pigeonhole you on a percentage here, but like right now, the feeling you had that he's going to be back next year to start the season in Milwaukee, what would you kind of put it out number-wise? Yeah, I mean like 45, 55.

Like a coin flip. Yeah, but I'm with you. I mean, I'm going to hold him, I'm going to take it at face value that he says he wants to win again, and he just has to know that it's harder to win in Milwaukee than it would be at some of these other places. It's funny you brought up the Celtics.

Zach and I were talking about this for the show, because he's heard me mention this a few times. You basically have a punt season this year because Tatum's not going to be there, so you can't really win a championship without him. Do they maybe just try to get a deal done? They trade Jalen Brown, you get Giannis to Boston, and you have then a year from now, Tatum and Giannis onto the Kupa on the same team, and the Bucks get a very good two-way player in Jalen Brown. I would imagine that Jalen's salary and Giannis' salary are probably close. The Celtics' payroll being what it is, that's going to greatly limit the kinds of trades they can make.

But this is a long way to say something like what you said, of course is possible. In this league, the trades that we've seen, like Luka Doncic's got trades. Of course, the Celtics have a long history of making incredible trades that shake up their team, usually for the better. So whether it's Boston or a team that we're not even talking about right now, you can't rule it out.

Does that Luka trade mess up the return that the Bucks could get for Giannis, just because a GM could say, well, Luka Doncic got traded, and he only got traded for basically Anthony Davis and a first-round pick? I don't think so. Kevin just knows that Nico Harrison was crazy for that, pretty much. I do. I mean, I think that there is, yeah, there was a, yeah, I mean, they were, they say they were targeting Anthony Davis. Like, what are you going to do about that? Yeah, that's crazy.

All right, I got about 45 seconds. Last thing. Kevin Durant, I've been saying that the Rockets, do you think that would be the leader in the clubhouse right now for him? Yeah, I would think so. I mean, you know, they can, they're a very young team that needs that one more veteran.

They have some enticing pieces for a team that would be kind of starting over. That would make sense to me. He'll be at the Garden tonight for Game 2 between the Knicks and the Pacers. Make sure you check him out on social media and read him in the athletic. He's Joe Vardin here with us in studio. Joe, appreciate it.

Thank you. Oh, thanks for having me. All right, it's time to ask the pros. Are you the listener who gets to ask us a question? We'll be listening later in the show. We might answer your question. We were talking about this yesterday, how the college football playoff, see, it's funny.

Everyone's praising this today. I said this when we first found out that the college football playoff was going to 12. I said the one grape I have with the format is that if you win your conference championship, you're guaranteed a buy. Like if you're one of the four highest ranked conference champions.

I remember saying this at the time that I thought it should just be you just get a spot in the playoff, not a guarantee to be a top 14 because I sense that there could have been an imbalance, depending on who maybe wins the SEC in the Big Ten compared to, you know, who could potentially win the ACC, the Big 12 or even the the non power for conference champion. So I remember saying that a lot of people like, hey, not a big deal. You're making a big deal out of nothing.

I actually remember Hickey laughing at me like, oh, why would you do that? And then I saw Hickey yesterday praising this whole thing in the NFL. It should be college football finally getting something right. So I really do believe, like, if you put me and Josh Pate together and like Paul Pasp's and you make the three of us run college football, that we could do a better job than the bozos that run college football right now. But anyway, what they're going to do now is if you win your conference championship, you're one of the five highest ranked conference champions. Right. Four power four. And then whoever is the non ranked, the highest ranked non power four conference champion, those five automatically get in.

But it doesn't guarantee you a buy. So last year, here were the final rankings. It was Oregon one, Georgia two.

This is before the playoff to commence. Texas three. Penn State four. Notre Dame five. Ohio State six. Tennessee seven.

Indiana eight. Boise State nine. SMU 10. Alabama 11. And then Arizona State was in at 12. Now, with that being said, in that format, Clemson still wouldn't need to got in because they won the ACC. So Alabama still would have been swapped out, even though they're 11.

Arizona State 12 because, you know, Arizona State was your Big 12 champion. So that still would have been it would have been the same teams. But look at the order would have been. It would have been the buys would have been Oregon, Georgia, Texas, Penn State. That would have been one, two, three, four. Then the first round, five, twelve, you had Notre Dame, Clemson. Eight, nine, you would have had Boise State, Indiana. Six, eleven, you would have had Ohio State, Arizona State. And seven, ten would have been Tennessee, SMU. So SMU and Tennessee both lost in the first round. One of them would have got through and they would have gone up against Georgia.

Now, Georgia, you remember, lost coming off a buy to Notre Dame. They would have avoided Notre Dame. So there's a good chance Georgia would have got to the final four because you would have just played either the winner of SMU, Tennessee. The winner of Arizona State, Ohio State would have gone up against Texas. Now, Arizona State probably loses to Ohio State, but that would have been a fun offensive game. But then probably Ohio State, which they beat Texas in the semifinal, they just probably beat them around earlier. Boise State plays Indiana.

Remember, Indiana lost their first round matchup. Now they would go up against Boise State who lost in the buy. Probably Indiana has a better showing up against Boise State when they did in their first round matchup. Still with that being said, I thought Boise State would have won. But Boise State would have played Oregon. So Oregon wouldn't have had Ohio State in the second round. And right as a number one seed, it feels better that you get Boise State or Indiana. No one was a bigger proponent of Boise State last year than me, but that's just the truth of the matter.

You'd rather have Boise State or Indiana than Ohio State, which you eventually got. So Oregon would have been to the final four. And not only would Oregon have probably been to the final four, who they would be in line to play, it was Clemson, Notre Dame.

That'd be the first round matchup. And Notre Dame got to a national championship game. It's not inconceivable for them to lose to Clemson. But whoever would have won that between Clemson or Notre Dame would have played Penn State. So could Notre Dame, Clemson beat Penn State?

Sure. Could Penn State also have beat Clemson? Yes, they did lose to Notre Dame.

But who knows? It was a close game. But regardless, Clemson, Notre Dame, Penn State probably all would have lost to Oregon. And this was someone going into the playoffs who picked Notre Dame to get in the current format to the championship game. So you really could have seen this new format.

Oregon benefit from it and also Georgia potentially benefit from it. Probably what you would have got was an Oregon-Ohio State national championship game. And this was the format, just with the way that it would have shaked on out. So I like this format better.

I like this change to the format. But anyway, you have to blow it up in a few years because they're going to go to 16. And the last thing I want to see is 16 teams in the college football playoff. 12 is more than enough. We do not need to see 14. We do not need to see 16.

But I know what motivates college football and the NCAA, and it's money, money, money. Solomon Wolcott will join us next in studio. It is the Zach Galbshaw, our number one in the books on the Big Friday show. Well, come on back.

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