Are QB Stocks Up or Down? (Hour 1)

Live from the play show, you're not overly ostentatious studios of the Infinity Sports Network here in beautiful New York City, sitting on top of the 10th floor of 345 Hudson Street. Welcome on into a Friday edition of the Zach Gelb show across all the great local Infinity Sports Network affiliates, Sirius XM, channel 375, the free Odyssey app, and of course, always streaming live on YouTube. 888-710-4ISN is the number to jump on in.

That's 888-710-4470. You can always get at me on Instagram where I'm straight flexing or via the good old cesspool of Twitter, that's Zach Gelb, that's Z-A-C-H-G-E-L-B. Bill Reiter, writer than you, right here on the Infinity Sports Network from 10 a.m. to noon Eastern Time on many of these same stations.

He's going to stop by in studio at 3.20 p.m. Eastern Time. We'll probably do two segments with Bill on the NBA postseason, also some maybe early storylines as we get cooking for the off-season too, which is great. The off-season too, which is always the filet mignon for the NBA. It really goes NBA offseason, NBA postseason, then all the way at the bottom, the regular season. And that's just not my opinion.

Even the players feel that way as well if you just see the lack of effort at times during the NBA regular season. So we'll chat it up with Bill Reiter coming up 19 minutes from now in studio. I got to start with a little football news. So last week, or maybe it was two weeks ago, the draft invitees came out by a list of the people that are going to be attending the NFL draft, the players that will be there in Green Bay, Wisconsin at legendary Lambeau Field right in that area. And when that list did come out, there were three quarterbacks on it. It was Cam Ward, it was Jackson Dart, and it was Jayla Milro. And the reaction, I don't even quite frankly remember Jackson Dart, if I'm going to be fair. I do not remember Jackson Dart being on this list, but he was. And I think that goes with the assumption, since it didn't make major news and it wasn't like a big story that all Jackson Darts go into the draft and that wasn't the takeaway. The assumption has been that Jackson Dart at some point is going to go in the first round.

Now, the earliest I've heard of him going from anyone that talked about it and speculate about it is Todd McShay saying the Saints at nine make a ton of sense for Jackson Dart. So no should door Sanders on that list. I don't necessarily take that as should or Sanders isn't going in the first round. I would be stunned if he does not go in the first round. I would still be surprised, not shocked, but surprised if he doesn't go in the first 10 picks. But just because your door is not going to the draft, I'm not. That does not give me any indication that he isn't going in the first round.

Remember, his last name is Sanders. Remember, they could probably be doing some party. Who knows what's gonna happen?

Should door? I don't look into it. Him not going to the draft doesn't mean that he's not going in the first round. But I'll tell you when Jayla Milro was announced that he was going in the first round or that he was going to the draft. That was something to me that was startling because I'm like, Hmm, I don't really think Jayla Milro two weeks ago when this came out, whenever was we could have two weeks ago that he was going to be a first round pick like that was just something that I go. That was the takeaway.

That was the alarming part. It wasn't Kim Ward being there. He's supposed to be number one overall pick.

It wasn't Jackson Dart. Many think that he is going to be a first round pick. But it was really that takeaway when this happened a little while back was, wow, Jayla Milro. He's got to know something that gives him the confidence to go to the NFL draft because most people didn't think he was going to be a first round pick. Well, we fast forward to today. I was on the good old cesspool of Twitter, and I see that there's an updated list of people attending the NFL draft. Cam Ward still going. Jayla Milro still going. Jackson Dart is not.

So what has changed in the last two weeks or so with Jackson Dart going and now no longer going? And let me just say this right away. I have no clue if this is true, but I just want to preface this with this statement. If something's going on in the personal life, something's going on with family that may be prevented from going to the draft that has not been reported. There's nothing out there yet on that. And that's a reason that ends up coming out why he's not going to the draft.

I will admit I'm apologizing in advance for what I'm about to say. But if that move has nothing to do with anything going on in his personal life, the health of anyone, and he just all of a sudden said, Yeah, I'm not going to the draft anymore. I'm not going to assume it's because he got some crazy deal to host some draft party and things like that. I'm going to imagine that this is Jackson Dart kind of saying the way I'm getting talked about in the media, how people thought now it was a foregone conclusion that he was going to be a first round pick.

I think this move, if it's nothing more than him just saying, I'm going out of the of the green room, I don't want to be there, is him not really having a ton of confidence that he's going to be a first round pick. And I gave you my quarterback rankings yesterday. My rankings. Cam Ward one. Chador Sanders to then a severe drop off. If I was doing the drafting, I would only have two quarterbacks go in the first round, but I'm not doing the drafting.

My job is on the line. I'm not desperate to get a franchise quarterback, but I have Cam Ward and Chador Sanders being the clear cut to best quarterbacks in this draft class. Then there is a drop off the third guy. I'm going off potential. I don't think this guy will reach the potential that people think that he can. And he's way too inconsistent for me. It's either all or nothing with them.

There's no middle ground. He's a tremendous runner. He has to work on throwing the football. That's Jayla Milro. I put Jayla Milro three. Then this is unconventional, but I put Dylan Gabriel for Dylan Gabriel ever. He's gone. He's produced whether that's UCF, whether that's Oklahoma or just recently this past year at Oregon. And then in at number five, I do have Jackson Dart, my first guy out of the top five.

It is Kyle McCord. So I'll ask this question. And it doesn't matter what I think should happen.

It's what will happen. How many quarterbacks will go in the first round? There's 32 picks. There's been no suspensions this year.

No one lost a draft pick or anything like that. But there's 32 picks. How many quarterbacks will go in the first round? And if I'm setting the odds, if I'm Vegas, I'm saying two and a half.

I think it's right there. I think it's it's 50 50 that it could be under two and a half. And it could just be Cam Ward and Chidor Sanders, or it could be slightly over two and a half. And you end up seeing Cam Ward, Chidor Sanders and then another quarterback go in the first round. Gut instinct right now, Samter, over under two and a half quarterbacks going in the first round with this news that, yes, you have three quarterbacks attending the draft originally.

Now it's down to two. You know, Chidor is probably going to go in the first round, but he's not going to the draft. The three quarterbacks that were supposed to attend were Cam Ward, were Jayla Milro and Jackson Dart. Now Jackson Dart has taken his name out of the green room and he is not going to the draft anymore. So only two quarterbacks going still to the NFL Draft in Green Bay, Wisconsin, coming up on Thursday. Over under two and a half quarterbacks go in the first round. What say you? Over.

Okay. And who are the quarterbacks? Obviously the top two.

Cam Ward, Chidor Sanders. I honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if you had four. Dart and Milro. Wow.

Four. Yeah, I wouldn't because you think about obviously the Titans. Samter with the takes today, the smoking takes. The Titans, the Saints, the Steelers, I feel like are all going to go quarterback. So the Steelers are twenty one and they get Dart or Milro. And then I think the Browns or the Giants are going to trade back up and try to get one of those other guys and lock him in for that fifth year option and get Milro or whoever else falls down. Kind of similar to what the Ravens did trading up for Lamar Jackson a few years back. No one thought that he was actually going to be a first round pick, even though he should have been.

Hold on. Most people didn't have him as a first round pick. I thought he absolutely should have been a first round pick. My quarterbacks that year, I think I had him as the third highest rated quarterback. If memory serves me right.

And I remember now it was in the nighttime hours when I was doing the weekend overnights. But I remember shredding, shredding Bill Polian for suggesting. And I also don't like Bill Polian because in Indianapolis, Colt, I fully admit that.

And he cried a lot when my football team would kick his ass and change the rules. Who are the quarterbacks? Oh, they're too aggressive with their wide receivers. But anyway, I remember shredding Bill Polian because how many Heisman Trophy winning quarterbacks? And just because you win a Heisman Trophy, it does not mean whatsoever that you're going to go on to be a great quarterback in the NFL. But how many Heisman Trophy winning quarterbacks have at least got that opportunity to be a quarterback in the NFL? And Bill Polian was like, he should be a wide receiver. He should be a running back.

So I always thought that was ridiculous. So I wanted my football team to really draft Lamar Jackson to be the heir to the throne to Tommy Brady at the time, because it was uncertain how much longer Tom Brady was actually going to play. So you think that we could get four, now five won in the first round that draft class. And that was considered to be a strong quarterback draft class because that was Baker, right? Baker, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen and Lamar Jackson. So Baker successful, Sam Darnold, I can't call him successful, but he just had a good season.

So now there's intrigue on Sam Darnold again. Josh Rosen, I don't know what jacuzzi he's in right now, but he's not playing in the NFL. Josh Allen's a stud and Lamar Jackson is a stud. And Josh Allen was the third quarterback? Yeah, third quarterback in that draft class. And Lamar Jackson was fifth. But that was perceived to be a strong quarterback draft class.

This is not. I'm starting to get the vibes with this quarterback draft class. And I'm not saying it is necessarily this one. I think it's a combination of the quarterback draft class when Kenny Pickett was the only quarterback to go in the first round, where we were like talked into these other quarterbacks that were out there, like a Malik Willis and these other guys. And the dude that played for the Falcons, Desmond Ritter, like, oh, there could be quarterbacks going in the first round, even though this isn't a strong quarterback draft class. It's not as bare as that draft class.

Let me be clear. But I would say it's a mixture of that one and then also the Bryce Young, C.J. Stroud and Anthony Richardson draft class. And Bryce Young, we'll see if it was year one bad, year two good. C.J.

Stroud, good, good. Year one and year two. Anthony Richardson, he's a bust right now.

He can't even get through an entire game without having to tap out and take himself out of the game. So that's what I think it's it's a mix of right now in terms of the numbering. I think it's between one to three. The difference is, as you saw, three go in the first round with Stroud going one or Stroud going two, Bryce Young going one, Anthony Richardson going four. I don't think the quarterbacks are to go that early in terms of bang, bang, bang. Ward will go one after that.

I don't know when Chidora is going to go. How about you, Botcher? How many quarterbacks in the first round this year? They got three. OK, who are your three? Chidora, Cam Ward and Ross?

Chidora, Cam Ward and Jackson Dart. OK, I'm going to say three as well. I'm going to take the slight over here.

I don't feel great about going the over. I don't think it's going to be four. But with Jackson Dart taking his name out of the running to go to the NFL draft and giving back his invitation and saying, thanks, but no thanks, unless there is something personally going on. And if there is, I have sympathy for that. But we don't know anything up until this point.

I just have to clarify it that way. I think Jackson Dart's not going in the first round. And Jackson Dart at the end of the NFL season, no one said he was a first round quarterback.

No one did. And he has made this rise in the media. Sometimes people make this rise in the media and it doesn't reflect what will actually happen. There's a difference in the NFL media and the NFL GMs and Dart pulling his name out of the hat here is just odd to me. It's bizarre. It's peculiar because when these names came out on who was going to the draft. Oh, yeah.

Dart will be a first round pick. Right. That was the conversation.

That was the narrative. And it was all why is Jaylen Milrose name in there now? Jaylen Milrose staying. Jackson Dart isn't going. So I think there's going to be three quarterbacks go in the first round. I think it's going to be Cam Ward. I think it's going to be Chidor Sanders. And I would only use a first round pick on those two quarterbacks.

I've said that three thousand times. I'll say for the three thousand and first time, I would only use a first round pick on Chidor Sanders and Cam Ward. And I think Cam Ward will go number one to Tennessee. Chidor, I have no clue where he's going to go now. But I think the Giants and the Browns and a trade up are in play.

I'm not expecting to go two and three. If he is going to go in the first three picks, I think it will be to the Giants. I think the Raiders are going to pass on him. Maybe the Raiders come trade up and go get him.

I don't think that's going to happen. The Saints are in play and the Steelers are in play. But I do think those two guys are going in the first round for sure. Cam Ward and Chidor Sanders. After that, I think Jaylen Milrose going to the draft.

And he's a confident kid. Maybe he just doesn't care if he's to wait around to the second round and go back there on that Friday if he does. But I think Jaylen Milrose keeping his name in there and Jackson Dart taking his name out.

There's a little bit of a rise and maybe a little hush hush, wink, wink. If you're there in the first round, we're going to take you because it was so bizarre when his name was out there for the first round in going to the draft. No one thought he was going and he accept that invitation and he's still going. Jackson Dart accept that invitation, but now has taken it back.

So we're all going the over. Sanford says four quarterbacks go in the first round. Botcher says three, but he has Dart in there with Ward and Chidor. I have Ward and Chidor.

I also go three, but I have Jaylen Milrose also going in the first round. What say you? 88710 for ISN, 88710, 4476. We'll take a break. We're talking hoops for two segments on the other side. Bill Rider from Rider Than You right here on the Infinity Sports Network joins us in studio next. You're listening to the Zach Gelb Show. We have company on the Zach Gelb Show on the Infinity Sports Network, and I'm very annoyed at my guest who's in studio with us right now. He's the host of Rider Than You on many of these same Infinity Sports Network affiliates. And you can listen to him weekdays, 10 a.m. to noon Eastern time. And that is the preeminent voice at our network when it comes to basketball, and that is Bill Rider. Bill, you're so kind. You're CBS Sports HQ's basketball insider. How could you not be the preeminent basketball host?

How did I annoy you? Is it just my general charm, or what's going on? Well, a source told me that you had a little night out on the town with Stu Kovacs. And I look across the glass today, and we know Stu is a party animal. Now, he's tied down in the lady situation now, so he's not going around and sleeping with everyone in the city.

They were checking him out, though. Of course. Wow. Stu's a sex icon. Let's just be real.

He really is. But I know Stu likes to party. I know Stu likes to throw back a few drinks.

And I got an alert this morning. Samter's in, but Ryan Botcher's in for Stu Kovacs. Oh, so you think I maybe, maybe a few too many drinks.

He didn't show up. That's what I think so. That sounds like a Stu problem. Stu's like Dennis Rodman. My show's earlier than your show, and I was here this morning working Stu. Well, yeah, let's be real. I think you could survive any situation the night before and then still be Bill Ryder on the phone.

I have been known to put down a few drinks. All right, but I will both effort giving Stu a very hard time on this. A hundred percent. I know NBA players need load management. Stu doesn't need a load management day. I mean, as I understand it, Stu does load manage, though.

So that's what I've heard. By the way, this playing tournament. You don't like it. Can we just stop? Okay, can I push back on that? Go ahead. You're the guest. Do whatever you want.

I mean, it's your show. Today's games subtract from the sum of all human joy. They're awful.

I hate them. I do think trying to avoid the play-in made the Western Conference in particular really compelling the last three weeks of the regular season. So here's my problem.

The NBA regular season, A is too long. Okay. We're starting with that. Okay, got it.

I am not going to win that fight. They're not going to reduce the games. They're not. In my opinion, maybe quarter length, but not the games. I understand how money works. But the players also think the regular season is too long with how infrequently we see these players get through the entirety of the season. So after 82 games of this product being too long, we need a format to reward teams that weren't in the top eight. Do you think baseball season is too long?

Yes. Yeah, I agree. So here's the thing. I can't change like you can't change the fact that all of the money is about broadcasting rights. That's what it's about. And TV networks are not giving back that money and they want those games. I like the play-in. Whatever the reasons, I think it makes it compelling.

Those guys care. They don't want to be in that crapshoot Russian roulette NBA reality. By the way, every single team one through eight in the Western Conference is good enough to win an NBA championship. They can walk you through even Memphis why they could do that, but not if you probably make the play-in. Maybe the Warriors because they got the Rockets. I think the Rockets are not very good or as good as their two-seats suggest. So I think that when you have a conference like the West where there's a lot of good teams and there's a real reason not to fall into the play-in because you actually can do something, I like it. Your Warriors comment. So I do think the Warriors are going to beat the Rockets.

I do too. How many games are you thinking? Five or six maybe? I mean look, Houston is really good defensively. Ahmet Thompson is an absolute stud and they've been much better offensively the last six or seven weeks. But the Warriors are experienced and that matters and the Warriors have been one of the best teams in the league since Jimmy Butler came on board. So yeah, six.

I'll go six. I'll be polite to Houston. Is there anything that Steph Curry could do? Because in the national landscape, right, for the last 15 years it's been LeBron is chasing Michael Jordan, right?

Is there anything Steph could do where then Steph moves past LeBron? I love this guy. My guy LeBron, by the way.

That's my dude. LeBron, if you're listening, yes, I also think Bill Ryder is a liar. Thank you, LeBron. I mean, by the way, I like LeBron. Full disclosure. Wouldn't be talking to you if it wasn't for him. I think he's complicated. It is interesting to be called a liar by someone that many find to be a pathological liar. But anyway, that aside.

No, that's a great point. I've been talking about this with NBA people for a while and nobody knows what to do with this. If the Warriors are NBA champions this year, and they can be and their betting odds are pretty good and their path is very clear. And Steph Curry has five rings to LeBron's four. And Steph Curry did everything by staying at the same organization and creating a culture from what was the worst sports franchise maybe in America when he arrived. And LeBron, not a criticism, but he shopped teams.

He shopped rings. That's fine. Like, go get yours. I'm not mad. I've moved to LA and New York and back for my career. I get it.

Yeah, I think. How are you the best player of all time if you are arguably not the most successful player of your era? Here's how I would say it. I think LeBron is the most successful player of his era. Not if he has fewer rings than Steph. Are you an individual accolades guy? Because I like championships.

So fair. I just think LeBron is the better all around player. Now, with that being said, if you ask me, would I rather have the career of LeBron or Steph Curry? I said this last year. I'd rather be Steph because I'm the greatest shooter of all time.

And also, I'm a lot more likable, like the last two to three years. I've never had a bad word to say about LeBron. Like the decision. I didn't like how LeBron did go about it, but I thought he had every right to go to Miami. I loved him coming back to Cleveland and winning that championship.

And no problem going to the Lakers. He won a championship, but most people didn't think he would. Steph has always been likable. LeBron the last two to three years to me has been a little bit insufferable. I covered LeBron his first year in Miami, and he is so much like that guy that he grew out of being and sort of because we all have our bad moments.

We all right. We all and everything that LeBron James does good or bad happens in the spotlight. So when he was not at his best self and that was true, how he handled pressure, people, media, basketball in 2010 11.

It's weird to see him regress to that. Can I go back to your to your better the semantics of better player, better career? I don't know if I can separate those in a team sport. I mean, Aaron Rodgers is a better player and had a better career or whatever than Eli. Eli has has two Super Bowls and Rodgers is one for an NFC championship game. So if you were starting an organization, though, from scratch, I'm starting stuff.

I'm taking stuff. OK, but you would take Rodgers over over Eli. You I don't know.

Do I get to know what I know now that he's a I mean, I'm not saying he's narcissistic, but that he's very self-involved and toxic. That's a tough call. I put up for that, though, with not really knowing that one in 13 years of his career. One ring.

Yeah, that's all you're going to get. Let me ask you, we say one ring. You know how many fan bases would love just one ring? I'm a Bears fan.

Yeah, I'm pretty in the loop on the misery of, you know, I get it. Bill Reiter here with us. Lakers, Timberwolves. I think the Lakers are going to win the series. Are we overlooking the Timberwolves heading into the postseason? So I just did predictions on CBS Sports Network today, and this was one of the hard I took the Timberwolves.

It's a coin toss for me. The betting markets see it as a as a as a pretty straightforward Lakers winner, fairly straightforward. Here's what I would say about the Timberwolves. They are one of five teams in the NBA in the top 10 in offensive and defensive rating this year. That is a pretty reliable gauge of who's going to win the whole thing. Usually not always have to be both the other teams of the Thunder, the Cavs, the Celtics and interestingly, Memphis.

So there's that. I think Anthony Edwards can be the best player on the floor for four or five of those games. By the way, he could be zero because Luke and LeBron are obviously really, really good. And the Lakers are small. They're not tall.

They're not traditional. I mean, they're obviously strong and like they can defend on the perimeter. So it's a weird matchup. They don't really have a center. I think it's a coin flip series for me.

So here's what's fascinating to me in the discourse. The Lakers right now are viewed in such a positive way because of this marriage that has happened just so unexpectedly between LeBron and Luka. The Timberwolves are only one game worse.

Yeah. And for all the season that they just had with the changes and DiVincenzo and Julius Randle and where they were last year. And many thought they were going to the finals.

They lose in the conference finals. It feels like they've been missing that it factor this year. With that being said, though, how many times have we seen in the history of the NBA recently? Teams have successful seasons here before. They're like, all right, let's just get to the postseason.

That's when it's I mean, it's a process like for most teams to have real success. You have to. That's why people are doubting the Thunder and the Cavs.

I think you have to. So the fact that that the Timberwolves made the conference finals last year, I think is really significant. That said, as you know, are you Knicks fan?

I can't remember. Karl-Anthony Towns is in New York now and they didn't get the right return on that guy. I parachuted on the Knicks. I grew up as a Nets fan. I was a huge Jason Kidd fan and I really stopped caring for the Nets when Kidd left as a coach because I thought he betrayed us. He did. He betrays everybody.

But yeah, that's not that's that's his stick. And you know, it wouldn't surprise me if he betrays them at the Mavericks soon after the debacle. I've actually had some people just tell me to look into. I haven't looked into it.

I haven't reported yet. I've been busy, but I've had some some people, some sources reach out in the last few days and say, you should look into Jason Kidd's sort of role potentially and Luka going away. And just remember, everywhere Kidd goes, someone else gets blamed, someone else gets fired. So just keep an eye on that.

What do you mean? I mean, maybe Jason Kidd was more involved or somewhat involved or very involved in the decision making to trade Luka Doncic. I mean, look, I'm not trying to apologize for Nico Harrison and and there is no way to apologize for that guy, especially after his secret press conference the other day. I'm just saying, yeah, to your point about Jason Kidd, everywhere he's gone, he has created political problems and it's become a Game of Thrones situation, even with people who brought him in. So I would think that Jason Kidd, and I'm wrong on this with your information, he would be frustrated with this and then he would leave. You're saying it's probably still likely Kidd's going to stay there. I don't know.

I've just had some people sort of reach out and say you should look into this. Look, I think I do know that what Jason Kidd prefers is power. Like he wants to have influence.

That's fine. He's a coach. He thinks he knows best. He's an amazing player. But he didn't stick around in Milwaukee with Giannis. He didn't stick around with the Nets. He got coaches fired a lot when he was a player.

And so there's just some people in the world, whoever they go, suddenly are dissatisfied with their colleagues. Maybe he's one of those guys. Now, you do Bum of the Week every week on your show on Friday. You do Bum of the Year?

I do do Bum of the Year. How can Nico Harrison win this? I think he's got a good chance. I mean, Aaron Rodgers and Doc River. I think Aaron has won the last two.

I don't know. We are eight months out. I would say we could already make the trophy that Nico Harrison wins.

You never know. He's the most hated person in sports right now. I don't think you've ever even been nominated for Bum of the Week. I've certainly had colleagues win that award. The Sheep has won it.

The former DA has won it. I love DA, you know, but they are. That's how high a regard I hold you in. For some reason.

I don't know why. People like me around here. I like you. Yeah. The Nuggets and the Clippers. Yeah, good series. This to me is fascinating because I still don't trust the Clippers, even though Kawhi is unbelievable.

Yeah, I get it. But when I have to rely on James Harden in the postseason, that's when I say I'm out. So did you ever know, maybe you dated this girl, your friends did, where she's beautiful and she's charming and she's out of your league, but she's also going to cheat on you and make your life miserable and it's okay to date her once, but then you have your buddy who goes back to her two or three times and nothing changes? I am that person and believe in the Clippers right now. I know they're going to break my heart. I know I've been seduced again.

I know it's all going to come crashing down. I picked them. So they have the third best defense in the NBA.

I mean, you're right. Relying on James Harden in the playoffs and relying on Kawhi Leonard to be healthy, but the Denver Nuggets are not very good. They're a bad basketball.

They have the best player on earth. I did vote for him for MVP. I voted for Jokic over SGA. I know, by the way, Jamal Murray is even more unreliable than he was two years ago when he had a very good finals and they obviously won the whole thing. Michael Porter Jr. has regressed. When you're, and I like Christian Brown, but when Christian Brown is one of your best players and you're talking about Russell Westbrook doing it again, I just, that, and they obviously fired their coach and their GM because that was a toxic relationship. I, I like the, oh, I like the Clippers in the series.

I don't think it's crazy like the Clippers in this series, but when I hear people say they could be a dark horse to get to the NBA Finals or the Conference Finals, that's where I push back because I'm relying on James Harden to do enough in the postseason and also Kawhi to stay healthy for the entirety of the postseason. That's the, by the way, they can't, so the thing is he came back, Kawhi came back on January 4th and he hasn't played every game. He's sort of on and off, right? Like he, he load manages.

But he's good to go now. Over that stretch, they are top six in offense and defense. They were already a top defense. And so if James Harden is the, because they run a lot of ISO, right? They don't run a lot of sets, but Tyler's a great coach. If Kawhi's healthy, I think the Harden problem becomes less problematic because you don't need him as much.

It's just here and there, but I'm with you. I think I'll take the Clippers in most series they play in until Kawhi gets hurt and I think Kawhi is eventually going to get hurt and that's going to be a conversation. Could you imagine if Nicole Jokic, with all the problems on that team, puts this team on his back while he's basically coaching the team as well and they get to the conference finals or the NBA finals? So there are people in the NBA who played, who are GMs who think, to our earlier conversation about where do you rank Steph Lebron, who think Jokic is a top ten talent of all time. But you'll never get that level of respect and you probably shouldn't if you don't win.

I mean, what does he have to get? Three or four rings minimum to get there? But if you win a ring this year, it almost feels like a ring and a half.

I think it's scaled differently. Like, if you get two rings in Denver. Yeah, during the Lebron and the Steph era. With also, like, Lebron right when he's won, he's had Kyrie, he's had Anthony Davis, he's had Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh. You know, Steph Curry's had Kevin Durant. Like, to me, winning with Jamal Murray is your second best player and I like Jamal Murray.

That's an incredible accomplishment. He's never played, Jokic has never played with a player who is an All-Star or an All-NBA player. Not including Russell Westbrook coming in as a shell of himself. Not to be clear, I don't think he'll do this, but will he force a trade in the next few years? So, and I wrote this six, three, four months ago. In fact, your guy Bart Winkler got mad.

Like, people got mad at me in Wisconsin. Giannis might force a trade. People think that'll happen.

Luka, and the expectation is Luka and Nikola would, Jokic would never do that. I don't know is the answer, but if I had to, no, I don't think, the only problem is that him and, him and Doncic are really good friends, so if he really gets frustrated and he wanted to go hang out with his best buddy. After Lebron retires.

There's a world where maybe that can happen, but my knee-jerk response to you is no, I don't think he's built that way. When is Lebron retiring? Not soon enough. Just kidding. I'm joking.

I don't run a stream. I'm just kidding. I actually like Lebron. You don't have to like me for people like you. No, not right now. Whatever.

That comes with those. People don't like people saying real things about them, and so, like, journalists tend to be disliked by the people they cover. That's a great question. I think he will retire in 2027. I'll say he has two more seasons after this one.

But, dude, nothing. We will know. He is not doing a Tim, Donc, and I'm retiring. He is doing a two-year goodbye. This is a tour, yeah. So it could be, I mean, it could be.

Mariano, David Ortiz. Right, right. Times two. And not charming.

Because it'll be ham-fisted. But I think it's two years. That's my guess. Thunder of the Field. If you would have asked me this a few weeks ago, I would have said The Field.

I'm going Thunder now, though. So the betting markets are really close. Okay, short answer, The Field.

Long answer, I really think, and I could walk you through it. I wrote this over at CBSSports.com. I really think you can make a case for every single team, if Memphis gets in, to make a run of the conference finals if they have the right path. I will go The Field, although I like their, if the Warriors had gotten it, were in the eight game tonight, and could be the eight seed to play The Thunder, I'd be even more confident in it. It's really a tough call. I'll go Field, but The Thunder are really, really, really good.

Why did Bill Ryder vote Nikola Jokic over SGA for the MVP? We'll get to that on the other side. We'll also touch on the Eastern Conference. We'll look in the Cavs, the Celtics, and also the future of Tom Thibodeau when Bill Ryder comes on back with us on The Zach Gelb Show.

Update time first. Here's Zach. You're listening to The Zach Gelb Show. Alrighty, Zach Gelb and Bill Ryder here with you.

Bill Ryder hanging out with us in our New York City studios until the top of the hour. So, right before we got to break, you obviously shared that you have an MVP vote. We knew that.

Good tease by you, by the way. Yeah. Pro.

You know, a blind squirrel will find the nut once in a while. But, you said that you voted Nikola Jokic over Shay Gilgis-Alexander. Why?

Yes, I did. Because I'm tortured. So, I love having to vote.

It's a privilege, right? You have to take it seriously. Most years I enjoyed it. This year I found it torturous because I don't think there was a correct answer. There was just a lesser wrong answer.

I can give you the long version, but the short version is as great. Okay, I think SGA is amazing. He's incredible. It's not a slight on him. If you say Michael Jordan is the second best player of all time, you're not saying Michael Jordan sucks.

All that stuff, right? Okay. I just think that if you swapped Jokic and you swapped SGA, that Jokic would go on to this Thunder team that is incredibly deep, has the best point differential in history, is remarkable defensively. He's never played Jokic for a good defensive team, and they would win 66, 67, 70, 71 games in an NBA championship. I think if you put Shay over on this Nuggets team, and even if you found an equivalent for Jamal Murray because they play the same position, I don't think they're the four seed in the Western Conference. I just think, and again, it's in the margins here, I think the value of Nikola Jokic. He literally just had the best season of his career, Zach, and he's a multi, multi, multi-time MVP.

So it was really, really tough. I just think he's a better player than SGA, but I also think, more importantly, he is more valuable to the Nuggets than SGA is. Take SGA off that team, they might be the four seed.

So don't get me wrong. Like you said, I think Nikola Jokic could win it or SGA could win it. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer this year.

It's so hard. You didn't have this fatigue, but do you think there will be voter fatigue since Nikola Jokic has already won three? A hundred percent. And by the way, I don't know what other voters do. I will not look at other ballots or talk to other voters in the two or three weeks before I'm voting because I don't want to be influenced. And a few years ago, when Embiid won, I went Jokic 1, Janus 2, Embiid 3. And so I sort of, when I come up for air sometimes, I sort of see what, after I vote, what's going on. I had checked in with some buddies maybe five or six weeks ago, voters, and they were leaning Jokic and several of them ended up voting for SGA. So I, voter fatigue slash, I think the fear of people in the NBA, I think a lot of writers fear being made fun of on Twitter more than they fear doing a bad job personally. And I think the fear of getting it wrong or looking silly for not voting for the guy that is on the best team in the NBA, I think swayed.

So yes, to a degree, and I think just the forces, the narrative forces that are out there, I think take hold too. Let's go through the Eastern Conference. Bill Reiter here with us. We already touched on the West in the last segment.

If you missed any of it, Odyssey App Rewind function, you could use all that. I'll be a good company guy. I love that. Knicks, by the way, first back-to-back 50 win season for coach since Pat Riley. So Tom Thibodeau just did that. Tibbs is on the hot seat, people think, going into the postseason. I think if they win the first round, there's no way he's getting fired. It's interesting because Leon Rose, who I think is very good, he's J.D.

Salinger, though. He's just hiding somewhere. He's in a secret bunker. He's had every game. He sits in the stands. If I walked up to him, he'd be like, oh, thank you.

He's a polite, very nice man. I mean, they spent a lot to get here. I mean, they really did on bridges in particular, but they built this team under the expectation they could win an NBA championship. I thought it was a reasonable expectation.

I thought they were the elite among the elite. I thought they had closed the gap with Boston. It was Cleveland who did that somehow, right? By hiring Kenny Atkinson. So if you go and you get swept by the Celtics, it's up to Leon Rose.

I don't know. Leon Rose is hard to read. I think I could see Tibbs being on a hot seat, and I don't personally think that they're going to lose to the Pistons, but they can. I think that's a closer series than Knicks fans want to admit. So a lot of people have floated out the Knicks as a destination for Kevin Durant this summer. I think the Rockets are going to be where he ultimately lands up with the Imeo Doka situation. I've been floating this out there, and I don't know if it has any legs.

All right, hit me. But with how close Leon Rose is as he used to represent Devin Booker, and this has been talked about before, and Bridges knows the Suns, obviously. Can you see Bridges being involved in a trade to the Suns, except Devin Booker's the one going back to the Knicks? So that is what should happen, I think, or some version of that if enough comes in return, because Matt Ishby and the Suns need to tear it down. I don't have any credible reporting on this, but there is credible reporting that suggests the Suns are going to keep Booker, extend him, pay him $75 million a year on the back end of that deal. So I doubt it. I do think the Durant thing is real.

I'm with you. I think that the Rockets are the leader of the clubhouse. I think keep an eye on Orlando. Keep an eye on the Spurs. There's a lot of talk that the Spurs are a team that Durant might want to go to.

But KD is one of these rare talents where he, I think his arrival makes you a championship contender if he goes to the right place. The Knicks could be that. The Knicks are that. I think the Spurs are that.

I mean, the Spurs, if he's back, with Wen Binyama, Durant, Stefan Castle, and who am I forgetting? De'Aaron Fox. I mean, that's it. The Rockets don't have offense. They can't create their own offense.

That's their problem. Orlando had a lot of injuries. They're awful offensively.

Yeah, any of those teams you put them on, I think they become an elite basketball team. Now, I was going to ask you this before the news today, and this is a report by TMZ. I don't want to be insensitive by asking this question. We know that Greg Popovich, back in early November, suffered a stroke.

There's a report out there today from TMZ that they have video of him having a medical emergency at a restaurant, and he was taken away in an ambulance. So, first off, our thoughts to Greg Popovich. With that being said, I don't want to be insensitive here. I was going to ask you this, though. I didn't think Pop was coming back either way to be the full-time coach, and I've been thinking that Becky Hammond's going to replace him with the Spurs.

Yeah, it's really interesting. So, RC Buford is the guy that runs Basketball Opera. I mean, Pop runs everything, so the question will become, does Pop have the say after he is no longer the head coach? Or does it transfer down to Buford, who is actually in charge of Basketball Ops, but Pop's in charge of everything in that system? She could get the job.

I mean, look, there are people that think Bill Self will get the job because he and RC Buford are best friends. But also, unlike it was two years ago, it is the best job in the NBA now because you are one of the best-run organizations if Wemenyama comes back from this blood clot situation. You have Wemenyama. You have a ton of picks. You have a ton of assets you can move. You've got Stefan Castle, who's amazing. You've got De'Aaron Fox, who's really, really good. So, I think Hammond, whoever Buford might secretly want or want to hire, I don't know if that's Bill Self or not. I just know that people have talked about that for years. And then I think any coach that's available is going to apply for that job. And so, Hammond has a chance, but that'll be highly coveted. Right now, do you lean Cavs or Celtics in the East?

Because that's the collision course, right? I think Boston's the best team in the East. Look, the same reason I didn't take the Thunder over the field is why I can't take the Cavs over the Celtics. They haven't done it yet. They're really great. They're amazing.

I believe in what they did. The regular season was incredible. They can shoot too, man. Oh my God. And Kenny Atkinson, coach of the year.

I've seen him twice in the last week. And the Celtics shoot a lot of threes. How many years did it take Boston, with Tatum and Brown, they had different versions, to break through? And they lost in the Finals. They lost in the Conference Finals. They lost in the Heat. They lost multiple times before Kyrie was there.

And when Kyrie was there, it took those two guys, Tatum and Brown, a long time to just, it's a lot to try to do. Winning those games, winning 16 games is so hard to do. Do you think it's more likely that the Cavs or the Thunder win the NBA championship? Thunder.

Yeah, I'm with you too. And the East is easier, by the way. But there's only one elite team in the West. So if Oklahoma City is undaunted by the moment, then they will be in the Finals. Last thing I'll ask you, Pacers and Bucs, Bill Reiter in the studio with Dust Reiter that you can listen to at 10am to noon Eastern Time and many of these same stations. Are the Bucs, I know they're the fifth seed, but I think most people would view the Bucs as the team that's going to win this series.

Are they in danger here of losing this series? Yes, I have the Pacers. Despite my remarkable respect, love and affection and friendship for Doc Rivers, that is sarcasm. Chris Paul or Doc Rivers? I mean, Chris Paul's the better, Chris Paul's a great player. We don't like each other, but he's an amazing player. Doc Rivers is not a very, I don't even know Doc, he's just not a very good coach.

And he's not nice to me because I know that and I talk about it. The Pacers, on paper, are not great defensively. They are, they got off to a terrible start. They're top 10 in defensive ratings since December 13th, since January 1st, since the trade deadline. They are playing really, really well right now.

I think the Pacers, nobody's beating the Cavs or the Celtics, I don't think, but I think the Pacers might be the third best team in the East. I lied, one more. Potentially honest destinations, if he gets traded. Oh, don't barks your guy, but I don't want Wisconsin to get mad at me. I'm from Iowa. I love you, Wisconsin.

We'll spend them some spotted cow and cheese curds. Houston is a place that I think you would keep an eye on. Orlando is a place that you would absolutely keep an eye on. Toronto's a place because if he runs basketball operations there and his connections with growing the game abroad. I think the Rockets would be, it'd be really interesting if the Rockets would prefer Giannis or, I think they would, over Kevin Durant if Giannis made himself available. Well, I would. I would take the younger player.

Me too. But I think he may, the question is who does he make, if Doc would prefer it. I think that would be KD, right? Yeah, but Giannis can play defense, right? He's a grinder like that, but yeah, you're right. They need shooting.

They need shooting. That's not Giannis. He is Bill Reiner, CBS Sports HQ. Also, you can listen to him right here on the Infinity Sports Network, our preeminent voice when it comes to basketball on the network.

And you can listen to him Monday through Fridays, 10 a.m. to noon Eastern time. You're the best, Bill. I appreciate it.

Thanks so much. And by the way, if you ever take one of my producers out the night before a show and they don't show up again, we're going to become frenemies. We're not going to be friends. That's an on him thing. How many drinks for Stu? Eight margaritas? He only had one, actually. I went two. A lot of people in the YouTube chat think Stu smokes a little bit, so maybe that's what it was. Alrighty, we're coming on back when we return. What the heck's going on with Brock Purdy and the San Francisco 49ers? Zach Gelb Show, Infinity Sports Network.