Reversing A Revelation — Part 2

One member is examining the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism welcome to this edition of viewpoint on Mormonism on your host, Bill McKeever, founder director Mormonism research ministry with me today is Eric Johnson. My colleague at MRM yesterday we began our show by playing an excerpt from a speech that was given by Russell M.

Nelson back in 2016 quite specifically. It was January 10, 2016. He was speaking at BYU Hawaii.

The title of his talk was becoming true, millennial's, and as we brought out yesterday. He made reference to a change in the church handbook and as we explained yesterday the Mormon church has this handbook. It's called handbook one stake presidents and bishops and as I mentioned, I have a copy of the 2010 edition where it lists what we would say our apostate behaviors and there were four bullet points under this apostate behavior and it says, as used here. Apostasy refers to members who and then you have for examples of apostate behaviors is found in page 57 of this particular manual what Nelson was justifying was the addition of another bullet point in that bullet point would read specifically as used here. Apostasy refers to members who point number four are in a same gender marriage. As we explained yesterday when that was announced. It caused a lot of upset among many members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and people were wondering no doubt why children who were the offspring of same-sex couples could not be baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and as I mentioned yesterday, it does seem a little bit odd that the children would be punished Mormon context for what the church would say are the sins of the parents because when Jesus said, suffer the little children to come under me.

He was not making a qualification only if the parents were living godly lives, and believed in me as Messiah or whatever and we would have to assume the probably a lot of the parents of these children that Jesus were perhaps referring to were probably still holding onto the Jewish traditions maybe didn't even believe that Jesus was the Messiah. We don't know. But the point is, Nelson was giving credit to the Lord for this policy change in and inserting another bullet point that this was considered apostate behavior on April 4, 2019. The church came out with another statement saying that they were going to remove bullet point number four and that same-sex behavior is no longer going to be considered apostate behavior and I can only say folks at this is got to be confusing to the average member of the LDS church even though they may be in favor of the new course correction and I'm sure many of them or but what you do with the statement that Nelson made on January 10, 2016 doesn't make any sense at all.

Coming from it evangelical position that the Lord could tell his prophets to say one thing in 2015 because that's the event that was referring to, and then come around just a few years later and have a complete reversal on this idea that it was a revelation is very important to what we're talking about here, and that talk that was given in 2016, just before the part we quoted yesterday. This is what Nelson had said. He said after fasting, praying, studying, pondering and counseling of my brethren about weighty matters. It is not unusual for me to be awakened during the night with further impressions about issues with which we are concerned and my brethren have the same experience. In fact, back in October 2018 Nelson's wife Wendy said this to Peggy Fletcher stack that, according to her that he was he's often times awakened at night and is told by God what he is supposed to do and it seems like in the corner that article.

It must've started in January 2018 when he received the presidency but the weather is been happening for year weather's been happening for three, five, 10 years there something that Nelson is claiming for himself that he is receiving direct revelation from God. That's very important and I think that's where this confusion lies. Now, as I said earlier, there's probably a lot of Mormons are very happy about this recent announcement but you notice in there that is suspiciously missing from this whole dialogue. No mention of any Bible verses regarding this behavior or doctrine and covenants, or anything else from the standard works its silence. There is no mention of Scripture. There's no debating what Paul had to say on the subject of homosexual behavior. It's all about what is politically correct and what is the culture saying to the Mormon church today with the cultures even saying to the Christian church because this is an issue that we have to grapple with as well when they have come up with this policy change or doctrinal change.

Whatever they want to call it 30 years ago. I highly doubt it, but because the culture has certainly changed, especially in the last 10 years. I mean I'm thinking back to proposition eight, I don't think proposition eight in California would stand a chance today in California and so I think the culture has certainly moved in the Mormon church is moving right along with it.

I think part of the problem, though Eric could be the very issue that I brought up Scripture doesn't usually seem to take precedence in these decisions. Now certainly not biblical verses taking precedence because as I said I don't hear them ever being brought up. I don't hear the proponents of same-sex behavior ever mentioning what the Bible has to say on this issue. It's all about what the culture is saying today and I have to say folks that can be very dangerous. That's the kind of stuff that gave us slavery yes and I know the Supreme Court back then with the Dred Scott decision since slavery is perfectly okay. They were on the wrong side of history and even though I've heard some say that this whole issue with your against same-sex marriage are on the wrong side of history. It's not really the wrong side of history that I'm worried about is the wrong side of eternity that I'm worried about and that's what I think is Christians assessed to be an issue that we have to pay particular attention to. I think we need to read from the news release that was given on April 4, 2019 from Salt Lake City titled first presidency shares messages from general conference leadership session a message from the first presidency. This is what it says Pres. Russell M. Nelson reflected that throughout this past year the Lord has blessed us with quote revelation upon revelation knowledge upon knowledge that which bring us joy, that which bring if life eternal." And that's from doctrine and covenants section 42/61.

We are all eyewitnesses to revelations from the Lord as he guides the affairs of his church. President Nelson taught of ministering and repenting, sharing that as we embrace the gift of repentance. We will rise up and minister in a holier way and make our home centers of gospel learning Israel will be gathered on both sides of the veil and we will help in preparing the world for the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Notice this emphasis on revelation reaction upon revelation. It seems like what I get from that opening salvo here that it's quite all right to have a revelation that says one thing on top of a revelation that says completely the opposite. As Christians we wouldst have to say no you can't do that.

That's not the way the God of the Bible operates. Certainly there were things in history that were fulfilled and obviously were changed because of those fulfillments, but it's not like God was changing his mind.

It was already in the works that this was eventually going to happen even though all the details were probably not fully known at the time. Do you think God changes his mind based on what the prevailing political view of the culture is. I don't think so. I don't think so at all in and I think that's what exposes this as being in my opinion a huge fraud. Can you imagine, Isaiah, saying, you know all of this idol worship that's going on. It's okay now because everybody's doing it and everybody thinks it's okay. Many people in Israel were with idols.

They were they were doing the wrong thing. Instead, Isaiah takes a minority position and states what is right that LDS leadership doesn't seem to want to do that it wants to go with the culture because it's more interested in public relations than it is with biblical truth in what you're saying there. Eric you really think is a serious indictment against their claim that they in fact are profits Sears rebel leaders who represent the God of the Bible because you got understand when they say God they are trying to give the impression that their God is the same God is the God of the Bible.

They're not saying that it's a separate God even though they would say we are worshiping a separate God, they would certainly want to criticize the attributes that we give to the God that we believe in. Even though I think we can easily demonstrate from the Bible that those attributes are found within the pages of Scripture. You can't find that when it comes to the mortgage and I find anywhere in the Bible that talks about God who was once a man who became God at a particular point in time.

You don't see anything like that. You have to go to the revelations given by Joseph Smith the founder of the Mormon movement but here they're emphasizing this importance about revelation as if their leaders are in tune with the God of the Bible and I would argue against that because as I said, the God of the Bible does not operate this way because of time on this get the But I want to move to the last part of this statement and it says Pres. Henry B.

Eyring spoke of continuing revelation in the true and living church teaching that the Lord has led by revelation through prophets from the time of Adam and Eve to the present day, and such revelation to his servants will continue until he comes again. One reason is that we need the Lord's direction to meet changing circumstances and he has guided changes in practice and policy throughout the history of the church. Okay, one reason is that we need the Lord's direction to meet changing circumstances what you mean from 2015 to 2019. God has to make a change according to the circumstances, you mean the God of Mormonism can't see three years down the road really think I with the hope that these would be the questions that Mormons are asking themselves instead of just gushing over a policy change that you just happen to agree with culturally. I'm going to say if your latter-day St., listening to what were saying right now aren't you bothered by the change in quote on quote policy or Eisai doctrine in what is being done here. I don't think as you mention you in yesterday show this is not a religion that is being governed by modern day prophets. Although they're going to point back to Adam and even all the way through. I don't see that here I don't see anything similar to what we find, as the prophets as they spoke in the Bible we are right in. Do we see for instance the prophet in the Old Testament, flat-out contradicting another profit.

No, we don't see that kind of behavior.

We see it all the time and Mormonism see that's our prayer folks that the D think people will see this as a gross inconsistency and hopefully they will come to the conclusion as we have been studying the teachings and history of Mormonism that this cannot be a church that is led by the God of the Bible. Thank you for listening you would like more information regarding his research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter Mormonism research. We hope you join us again as we look at another viewpoint is you just listen to today's broadcast viewpoint and Mormonism. Did you know that you can hear previous shows at your convenience viewpoint and Mormonism podcast is free on the Internet and will help you learn about the LDS religion. Feel free to listen on your computer or download to your favorite listening device.

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