This broadcaster has 662 podcast archives available on-demand.
Keep up-to-date with this broadcaster on social media and their website.
May 23, 2019 5:00 am
One member is examining the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect.
And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism.
Our thanks to Brian made for that introduction welcome to this additional viewpoint on Mormonism. I'm your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry with me today is Johnson. My colleague at MRM we are looking at an article that was written by Alan D Haney. He is member of the general authority 70 in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. He gave a talk at Gen. conference in October 2015 titled, remembering, in whom we have trusted.
If you want to read the entire talk is found in the November 2015 & starting on page 121. This is an adapted version a condensed version of that talk but I still think it's important because what Mr. Haney is doing here in this article is he is spelling out what is required for a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints if they hope to receive exultation in the celestial kingdom. In other words forgiveness of their sins because forgiveness of an individual sins is absolutely essential if a Mormon hopes to be exalted. The title of this article that starts on page 80 and I should say ends on page 86. Not a very large article. It all is titled we have to be clean subtitle being the Savior invites us to be worthy to return to our father, and he starts off with this story of how his grandmother was staying at his house when he was a boy and how he went out to play with some of his friends and they made a mudhole and they poured water into this mud hole in order to make it when he calls it like a miniature swimming pool. And then there jumping in the pool, so naturally he's getting filthy dirty and now when he comes home.
His grandmother meets him at the door and refuses to let him into the house. He says finally. I asked her what I had to do to come into the house and of course the end of the story is he has to go into the backyard while she hoses them off with a hose and he says after what seemed like an eternity she pronounced to be clean and let me come into the house so there's the parable. As he explains it. Eric, I want to read that Because you read it yesterday, but I think it's important to read it again because he cites a passage that I want to elaborate on taken from third Nephi. What is he saying that With that real-life parable of sorts, and mine. Please consider the following words of Jesus Christ.
And this comes from the book of Mormon third Nephi 2719. No unclean thing can enter into his kingdom. As a Christian, would you have a problem with that statement right there.
No unclean thing can enter into his kingdom is what we call sin.
Sin has prevented us from being able to go into God's presence. So we would not have an argument at all with the way that sentence is worded. If that's all there is to it.
Certainly I would say just about every Christian would have no problem with that statement that no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom. Of course the big question becomes how do we get clean and as I've mentioned in this series. This is what separates Mormonism from Christianity what a Mormon must do in order to be cleansed of their sins is certainly different from we as New Testament Christians that he cites third Nephi 2719.
He only quotes the first portion of that and no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom. But as I read yesterday. I would like to read it again today. The rest of verse 19 it says therefore nothing enter it into his rest, save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood. Because of their faith, and the repentance of all, not just some all their sins and their faithfulness unto the end.
And as we been stressing in this series as we often stress on this show. The definition of repentance in Mormonism is certainly a different understanding that we as New Testament Christians would have. Repentance is not just the confessing of sin. It's also a turning away from the sin never to repeat the sin again.
And as we mentioned, many latter-day St. leaders have stressed the fact that this repentance has to permeate every area of the individual members life there cannot be left anything that is untouched. There can be no spots on the white garment that we read for instance from Spencer Kimball yesterday.
Now I want to bring out that in verse 19. There is a footnote in the book of Mormon and it says Elma. 1137 Elma 1137, which by the way, is a verse that we often like to bring up in conversations when we are talking with Latter Day Saints on the streets or in email.
What does Elmo 1137 say Eric and it says and I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins, for I cannot deny his word and he has said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, how can you be saved except he inherit the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sense as a New Testament Christian reading it from my worldview, I would agree with Elma. 1137.
The question though becomes will how does a Mormon interpret this. How have Mormon leaders interpreted Elmo 1137 will based on what we find Mr. Haney saying in this article we have to be clean.
I'm going to have to say that it seems to be consistent that what he is arguing here is that a Mormon must not be engaged in a sinful lifestyle if they hope to get into the celestial kingdom. In other words, it's not just a haphazard flippant cavalier attitude of I can go out and send in and everything is going to be okay. That's not what I'm saying.
He's saying that you should not have any sin that you are committing.
If you hope to be able to get into God's presence because as they interpret this passage and I say into you again that he speaking of God cannot save them, speaking of mankind in their sins. Another words if they are still actively engaged in any type of sinful behavior. Whether it's done without any conviction whatsoever or even done with conviction that still does not meet the requirement because it goes on to say, and he has said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, you cannot be saved in your sins. I would argue this if no one can be saved in their sins.
In other words, if you have any sin in your life. You cannot be saved, and no one can be saved if it saying, however, that you cannot be saved in your sins, meaning that the penalty of your sins has still yet to be paid okay now are communicating here because I would argue that yes the penalty of your sins has to be paid for, but as a Christian we would say that penalty was paid for by the works of Jesus himself on the cross at Calvary, but in Mormonism. It's based not only on what Jesus did in providing an atonement for sins, but it also depends on the performance of the individual Latter Day Saints.
In other words, Jesus's sacrifice on the cross is not enough, or as we would say it's not all sufficient to pay for the Mormons sin they must add to what Jesus did on the cross so it's Jesus plus.
But as far as the impossibility of keeping all of the commandments continually is D&C 2515 says according to the book of Mormon, every single person has the capability of keeping the commandments. It says in first Nephi, 37 it came to pass that I Nephi set onto my father. I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commanded them so. For the latter-day St., who every week has to come and repent.
Realizing he fell short and we are human we do fall short. II agree with that but the idea that you have to somehow, as this article says we have to be clean. You have the capability of becoming clean. Then the question is why aren't you doing everything that you are supposed to be doing think you raise a great point Eric because it would seem to me that if a Mormon really believes first Nephi, 37 that he gives every Mormon. The validity to keep these commandments and this is what grace is sometimes defined as in Mormonism. It's an enabling power. They say an enabling power to do what to keep the necessary commandments, and I don't get me wrong as a Christian, I would say that grace certainly is an enabling power but it's not an enabling power to keep all the commandments that are necessary in order to be forgiven. That would be a part of the definition that I would certainly discard because that's not what the New Testament is implying here, but wouldn't you think though Eric if a Mormon knows what first Nephi, 37 is saying to them, and it's emphasized to the Latter Day Saints in sermon talks and conference messages and manuals that you have the ability to keep all the commandments which you think at some point in their life while they're sitting there in the sacrament service, they would probably ask themselves full of that's supposed to be able to enable me to keep all commands what my doing here repenting of all those commandments I didn't keep. Why do I have to keep repenting of all these things if that's really how it works.
I would think that would be a fair question for them to ask of themselves, and perhaps even a fair question that we can ask our latter-day St. acquaintances a lot of Latter Day Saints will minimize this by saying, well, nobody's perfect, and I have been on the street a lot where I use the tactic of the miracle of forgiveness book that was written by 12 Pres. Spencer W.
Kimball I think it's a great book because I think he accurately interprets the unique passages found in the standard works. The book of Mormon as well as the doctrine and covenants and something that he says on page 164 when I asked Latter Day Saints at their doing everything that Spencer Kimball says they're supposed to do. They say I'm trying or I'm doing my best on pages 164 and 165 Kimball very clearly says trying is not sufficient, nor is repentance complete when one merely tries to abandon sin. He goes on page 165 to try is weak to do the best you can, is not strong, you must always do better than you can.
This is true in every walk of life, and when I quote that to a latter-day St. they just they look at the ground and they realize that trying as good of an intention as that might be is not what God intended it first Nephi, 37 says it's possible to keep and trying is an admission of failure.
Then what are you doing and being a Latter Day Saints we been emphasizing that for years and years here at this ministry, and now we are noticing that there have been articles in the end sign another LDS publications were they do talk about this perfection being an achievable goal sometime in the future. Jeffrey Holland gave a talk on that you will be perfect eventually and they do talk about trying we've seen in some articles but you know when you look at what their Scripture actually says and what their leaders have said in the past about those Scriptures. This new approach of saying well it's okay as long as you're trying not only as a go against what Spencer Kimball taught, but I think it's inconsistent with their Scripture it's inconsistent not only with Kimball, but other leaders to how does a latter-day St. put their head around that because if I was familiar with a lot of these statements that been made by leaders. I would certainly see this as a contradiction, but maybe it's because a lot of Latter Day Saints don't want to see it as a contradiction and perhaps there hoping that maybe some of these new teachings coming out in some of these articles and such that it's okay to just try. What if you're wrong.
Thank you for listening you would like more information and research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter Mormonism research. We hope you join us again as we look at another viewpoint is