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November 16, 2019 5:00 pm
Stu Hits the road this week and travels to Salt Lake City, Utah to chat with Christian missionaries Russ East, Bill McIver, and Matt Wilder about the differences between Mormons and Christians.
This is good Truth Network are Mormons are Christians.
Good Christians are mostly the same thing we use the same language. They say we believe in Jesus and phase God in holy books well we got a guy who knows a little bit about this and I want to allow Rusty's nominees all had an amazing make Bible had to pull my phone out when you talk to people and inspire you that love someone so much of the going try to share the you want to pull your microphone on interview lesson of doing with this man to God Rusty's your you're in Utah. Utah partnership for Christ and also the Truth Network makes an amazing Christian radio stations across Utah and even her 25 years, reaching Utah for Christ in you. God is right here across the path of this essay, who is one 2008 when broadcasting can be Utah Bill and Norma's research ministry came from Southern California to Utah and not in what year was that Bill 2004 okay so so I heard all about mom's research ministry a little bit you know Mike I got talk these guys so I got a Mexican dinner we talk over some tacos and we just put out there we prayed about it and the Lord has done great things for this program is really really super and I love these guys so building a program called Mormonism logical viewpoint on Mormonism. What time is it on the radio 945 in the morning and 945 at night Monday through Friday, so we wanted we would go to Canada support this ministry builds detail about it. McKeever wrecked and what an honor. Talk I've read your books I have ever heard your program.
I heard you you been gracious and you are you love the Mormon people right absolutely about how all this came about what your story. My story really starts when it comes to the subject. Mormonism goes back years been doing this for four decades is basically studying the teachings and doctrine in the history of the LDS movement, mainly because I grew up in Southern California had a lot of Mormon friends. They never try to convert me till I became a Christian and all of a sudden now they want to get me to join their church and so as a result of those conversations with those friends. I just have studied and studied and I never been bored with the subject in all these years of plan a word here early on this conversation friends at Stu Epperson here with Bill McKeever whose manner God reads written books prolifically on evangelizing function. He says Mormon friends. I mean, I think that that's really where evangelism starts united friendship we have this idea yet they hate people you disagree with Bill. You know, if you know when someone over to Christ, we know that we are King James Bible may not be the best way does anyone use the word but maybe not that way on right.
One of the tactics that we often emphasize is always asking questions. Never assume that the Mormon really believes anything even if they're supposed to believe that.
So what we try to do is encourage people just to simply ask questions to find out where the Mormon is theologically because you might be surprised how many Latter Day Saints really don't believe a lot of the really strange teachings and of Mormonism that separated from Christianity and so allow one of those young man was here tonight to hear him perform the Scripture.
I did, I was great. One who this guy is Matt Meiners all family here that while there he can. I mean, while their family is notorious like a crime family or anything but the bill you see a young man like him and you think you know your ear you know working order of ferrite disguise, not strong is not good like Catholic John the night the music is amazing, but it really was that it wasn't always like that for your family. Just quoting Scripture and telling people about the grace of God there was that there were some there is a transformation that happened I believe. Your mom and some other folks in your family would tell us about that real quick and then were to come back to Bill with the number one or 23 question you asked Mormon friends to get into this book tells whatever you guys yes so I was raised in the Mormon church.
My younger brother Micah 7 Mormon mission and Florida and try to convert a Christian pastor to Mormonism and was challenged by that man to read the Bible as a child and was also given and therefore the gospel so my younger brother took this challenge. Thinking he could validate Mormonism through reading the New Testament God opened his eyes. He ended up getting saved became born-again and made public profession of his newfound biblical Christian faith in Jesus and the biblical gospel in front of a bunch of Mormon missionaries got sent home office mission, and this caused a kind of domino effect, so he share the gospel with my family with my parents and myself and gave us the same challenge to read the Bible as a child and that's how it started for me as your brother. Yeah, my younger brother Micah yet. He was the first one and then and then we all kinda started to fall like dominoes in our entire family in an upcoming Adam Mormonism coming in the Christ so unbelievable and somewhere in there, you found a Christian radio station.
I think AMA 20 yeah so I connected with Russ actually early on in our ministry we connected with rest just been so impacted and and blessed through that ministry and have been partnered with them for about a decade now and we are hundred percent on board with a Utah partnership for Christ in the radio outreach and just want to see God continue to use that to grow grow his body to come back to you more in your family but we got talk to Bill here now that related by whether some background noise deserves some people it's a really rich fellowship in a big dessert function on this.
I'm in Utah.
What town are we in bill. Actually, this is West Jordan West Jordan, Utah. So were on the bed near the banks of the Jordan River. We could be in Israel with equal names of these places out here at holy also flows into assault water down about a young man old family having that you know devotes ease of the Mormon religion.
LDS always here story of his brother Micah converts to Christ and then he converts to Christ and his mom and all of you know what what is everyone present in your heart how what is what kind, which make about plots amazing. Let's be serious. I may not. Sadly, a lot of people who realize that Mormonism is not true, end up going off into agnosticism early. It's not that they don't totally in some cases give up any belief in God. But at that time, we have to ask the question what God are they still believing it is the God of Mormonism is a body of flesh and bones, you became got at a particular point in time, and certainly can't be the God of the Bible.
So it's important that when we talked Latter Day Saints that we do some at some point in the conversation get them to figure out who is the God of the Bible who is Jesus who is the Jesus of the New Testament because even though as you said, they have a Jesus in their theology, Mormon leaders themselves have said that this is a different Jesus than what they would assume the other Christians quote" in their opinion are believing it is important to let your Mormon friends know that you don't hate them right is not not attacking them you're talking about the truth. Their soldiers take. Actually, the opposite you love them.
By doing that right is and how you felt from your brother yeah and then is a heart of compassion towards the loss and assist that's how Jesus calls us to reach out to other spirit and truth in love, and with gentleness and we want to show them the truth but we don't want to do it in arrogance and we don't want to do a harshly the word of God is living and active.
It's gonna pierce people. It's going to offend people's gonna make people angry, but we don't want to add to that height is being jerks were to let the word of God do that. So match your family plays music you use certainly mastered of big crowds all over the country. You you great Adams. This was a call Adams.
Adams Road was acid is a reference to the biblical Adam, the first man Adam brought sin and death the world and the last Adam. Jesus Christ brings life and justification in the Mormon Adam actually fell in December fell upper right Billy. They have a good habit will how they felt and how they got that backwards, but that's one of the many things that you're trying to correct with your LDS friends to bring them to the Lord right absolutely important question that you want to ask the Latter Day Saints is very simply, if they were to die right now that they have the assurance that all their sins are forgiven, they would get the best, their religion has to offer person Mormonism.
In that context.
The best the religion has to offer is what they recall, exultation or godhood in order to receive that they need to be forgiven of their sins.
The problem is the Mormon church as so many things for its people to do that Latter Day Saints can't really know if they've done everything that's necessary in order to achieve that exultation. So if they are still in their sins. Even the book of Mormon condemns and so that is the real soft spot that we can use to try to evangelize them to get them to see that we can because of what Christ has done for us on the cross of Calvary. We can have that assurance that our sins are forgiven. No matter your scenery resonate baseline to second Bill's approach to ministering to Mormons in his evangelism is edible. The Lord's gifted their ministry with an incredible approach and I 100% support because coming on Mormonism. That's exactly what I was dealing with and how he approaches that is if if you approach me on the street that would've been what I would need to do it or it is a Mormon because I was trying to do more and more in order to earn God's forgiveness essentially never knew whether had done enough so I never had an assurance and so it wasn't until I read in God's word about how I can have an assurance to the blood of iced in his work on my behalf that I receive that free gift of eternal life.
Okay, so now that's the voice of Matt Wilder whose is a part of this Adams Road man his whole ministry is whole family. You can learn a little bit more about him, you want to hear but you gotta hang around in.
Bill McKeever is good at both of you as you help us of get out of the Bible. Ping-pong argument is that this trading blows with your Mormon friends with missionaries.
How do you avoid trading jabs that he actually leave the Mormon Christ are Mormons Christian we come back, don't touch that dial or touch whatever and however listen to us will have more.
This is a podcast. This is audio little video after we do the interview.
So the associate visual. Stay tuned, and working to learn more about what God's doing. Also in Utah and around the world to these men was a special thank you to a wonderful partner helping us advance the message of this program of the gospel in the thank you goes out to my pillow.com Mike Lindell, the inventor and CEO has now open his heart to say thank you as well. He wants to give you the opportunity to do what I've done I've slept on this pillow. I love my pillow. I sleep better. What would you give her good night sleep right now for the first time you get deep discounts on all the my pillow products. I'm talking about my pillows. The mattress toppers the bedsheets and the body pillow all your products right now. I got to do is go to my pillow.com and click on the new radio listener specials my pillow.com. Click on the new radio listener specials and you'll save big you will believe the savings just enter promo code truth when you get there, always promised with a 60 day moneyback guarantee and a 10 year warranty. You can also call this toll-free number 800-944-5396 thank you my pillow for partnering with us to advance the good news the gospel and thinking all you guys that have checked about supporting our sponsors was ever played Bible ping-pong with someone of another belief system. The Mormon missionaries. A company adored their young. They got the name badges in their nice young man. Therefore, their polite survey and we like to tell you about another revelation and Bill McKeever. You got a ministry in Utah and all of the world radio programs expanding and Matt Wilder you got he's ministry to music if you're quoting Scripture manages bullied up and encouraged her noise in the background were in this big conference room here and we had a bunch of folks in here, here, simple testimonies and hearing you perform. A great message to celebrate what God is doing in Utah and I'm here right in the middle of an element had writable Mike by recording device out and interview guides. So Bill, how do you avoid Bible ping-pong I'm not totally against bringing a Bible verses because certainly it's the word of God is going to change the heart. I'd like to bring up verses that I know Mormons should respect and one of the ways I learned that is by going to what's known as the Joseph Smith translation Mormons are probably not even aware it exists. But one thing that we do know is that Joseph Smith claim he is the founder Mormonism. He claimed that he came up with his own Bible version finished at 1933, but there's a lot of verses that he left intact that are the same as in all of our other Bibles and so if that's the way they are in the Joseph Smith translation than a Mormon should respect those verses so the Isaiah passages that speak of the fact that there is only one God.
You have Titus 35 all those verses are the same. When Isaiah says, when God says I am God and there is no other – how to Joseph Smith come up with another God old Polly Mystic approach to God.
And yet God says he's he's a one God is theistic and is monotheist and that's a great question. If God doesn't know of any other God in the Mormon things that they're eventually going to become a got a question I like to ask him in light of that passage is will will discard know you because he says he wants you found that suited to try to bridge it like she's interesting that we talk about bridging my neighbor placed in a semi-ticket test to reach my neighbor for Christ and a pulse of all things, all men, and yet believers sometimes he talked down to more easily slam the door in her face with her rude, you knowing. But there's a way to lovingly say hey you know what I do know one thing to say. I'm not here to bring a spirit of contention because you're not right man were not. And that's one thing that LDS people can be sensitive to because in the book of Mormon.
It teaches that contention is that the devil and of course as Christians were called to contend for the faith that was once to contend for the faith that was once in for all delivered to ask her to look at the Mason attraction 10 without being contentious right yeah exactly and so basically I noticed that with my personal experience with Mormon missionaries with people who are LDS. I've noticed it's best to start by asking a lot of questions to get them the thinking and then allow them to respond and then to use their responses to engage them and then eventually get into God's word but I like to approach it with using a lot of questions and just being respectful and giving them a platform to share their beliefs, because I think when you respect them and that way it opens the door to be able to do the same. What that says is absolutely essential because one of the problems that many Christians make her one of the print one of the mistakes that they make as they assume that the Latter Day Saints believe certain things.
So asking the question is always going to be positive. It's the least offensive way of comparing on a communication I was noticing a big giant 21,000 seat auditorium rentable square and asked our tour guide who is clearly trying to tell us this is the only belief in all this. I asked them if they were all the crosses was etiquette question. Maybe get him to get syrup things of the apostle Paul said almost knowing the cross of Christ a got one cross. Betty's mom is in several states are worth thousands of o'clock you don't have one cross around that question was actually asked of their 15 Pres. Gordon B. Hinckley, someone that he was giving a tour of one of their temples asked that very question of him and his answer was really revealing he said basically we don't want to think about a dying Christ. We want to think about the living Christ. The problem with that answer is it's really inconsistent. Even in the context of Mormonism because Mormons partake of what they call the sacrament service or the communion every week will what you think. That's about obviously is about a dying Christ without having to send me to try to say he died he papers into Gethsemane, but he didn't say it is finishing a 70 and an exactly there was not the death in Gethsemane. It had to be on the cross affect the book of Mormon actually teaches that this idea of a Gethsemane atonement is actually something that came about. Later on, even after the death of Joseph Smith. That's something that's little more new when you think about it, but I think they missed the point. Just because you have Gordon Hinckley saying we want to think of a living Christ and Christ are they really was he really implying that that's all we think of is the dead Christ because obviously that's not true. We certainly do see the risen Christ the resurrected Christ who paid for our sins on the cross Stu Epperson and I'm in the middle of Utah and in Utah it's the is the world headquarters for the Mormon church also known as the LDS are the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints. I would to men who know this belief really well.
One girl family came out of Mormonism. The Wilder family now because using you to your music and your messages you know to to share the good news of Jesus and another man has a radio program's name is Nowicki restating with me right here and just like Matt. Bill has a heart for Mormons you have already been doing this for 40 years, you have a radio program usually want a big big granddaddy's of this ministry to reach Mormons and a lot of wars of come to faith in Christ to you guys and through Bill what's the name your program and it like a website about you bill for those that want to get to know you better get our program's viewpoint on Mormonism.
But if they wanted it more information about what were doing. That's MRM.org Mormonism research ministry.org get call for the radio show from people that are curious a lot. I get a lot of email to a lot of phone calls and I do try to call them back in and carry on conversations just had that happen.
Just the other day how important detail radio is maybe will I hear you right here you and maybe we'll go to your church. You know maybe it's they're not ready for that war. Or maybe was like intimidating but to listen to the radio and maybe come to Christ right yeah absolutely. Like we gotta get the word got out there and however you however we can get it out there and just go back to the idea of the cross. And that's in the cross and how that's kind of offensive. That's a hard thing when I was LDS like I didn't like that symbol but coming to know Jesus.
Now I learned that the message of the crosses foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. I think the cross disc that represents the good news of Jesus Christ that Christ died for our sins and according to the Scriptures that was buried and he rose from the dead, and the third day in accordance with the Scriptures and so were saved by grace through faith. This is not around doing us the gift of God not a result of works, that no one may boast. And so the cross represents all those things and as a Mormon.
I was a poster that would Jesus did on the cross was not enough to bring me into right standing with God.
And so I think now I glory in the cross and I both in the cross I got 30 seconds left. What you said that question are you for certain that you all of your sins are forgiven and you're ready to enter heaven.
That's a powerful question I would be more specifics, rather than using the word heaven. I would say are are you do you have the assurance that you're going to get the best your religion has for you because tomorrow they know exactly what that means because there's three level of heaven, three levels, eternal life, eternal life to them as exaltation so is her life again and so your final thought everyone out there in I want to make this very important note, if you don't have Jesus Christ as your Savior. I don't care if you're Mormon. I don't care if you're Baptist you need the gospel lesson duties the gospel I need the gospel they got. He saved a wretch like me and thank God for his forgiveness. So this is what I just isolate one group of folks but guys put them on your heart, click final word out there to some out there who search you will you say to him quickly management rather than billiard close when you hear the gospel and believe it sets us free sets us free from sin.
It sets us free from false religious systems for freedom Christ to set us free. Stand firm therefore do not submit again to a yoke of slavery and we should be sanctified in God's word and just hold to the truth and if we read the Bible as a child and put our trust in God's word and in that message of salvation to the cross will find life will figures out that I think and also don't think that the Mormon is not listening to you. You never know how many questions this latter-day St. that you're talking to, may have in their own heart, that they might not even share with you at the time. You never know. So don't be intimidated and people. Thank you both for this patient was able to share with you right now in order to put it on my Instagram and in all my social media so our listeners can meet you instantly look like and pray for you if you're doing awesome work and this is about the gospel in it that God would become man and die for a wretch like me. Amazing love how can it be that thou my God would start for me and thank you guys for proclaiming it. If we like this in Utah