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How to be an Animal?

The Steve Noble Show / Steve Noble
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September 15, 2022 11:50 pm

How to be an Animal?

The Steve Noble Show / Steve Noble

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September 15, 2022 11:50 pm

How to be an Animal?

Steve talks to Dr. Renton Rathbun and Dr. Brian Vogt from BJU Seminary to discuss animal’s nature?

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Steve is an ordinary man who believes in an extraordinary God it on a show, there's plenty of grace and lots of true no sacred cows call Steve Bell 86 34 true 866-34-TRUTH or checking out online, Steve Noble now here's your host Steve Noble okay gather a little bit check man with all his noble qualities. Not to mention my own name, man with all his noble qualities with sympathy which feels for the most debased with benevolence, which extends not only to other men, but to the humblest living creature with his God, like intellect, which is penetrated into the movements of constitution of the solar system with all these exalted powers man still bears in his bodily frame. The indelible stamp of his lowly origin that was written by none other than Charles Darwin. Let me pull it into the present day.

This is Melanie challenger writing is the author of how to be an animal, a new history of what it means to be human. Here's what Melanie writes the world is now dominated by an animal that doesn't think it's an animal in the future is being imagined by an animal that doesn't want to be an animal. This matters from the first flakes chip from stone in the hands of walking apes at least several million years ago. History has arrived at a hairless primate with technologies that can alter the molecules of life these days. You humans are agents of evolution with far greater powers than sexual selection or selective breeding, thanks to breakthroughs in genomics and gene editing technologies. The biology of animals, including humans, can be rewritten in various ways.

We have created rodents with humanized livers, our brains, partly composed of human cells. We made salmon that grow to our timetable on and on and on. She goes lifting up what is obviously the highest form of animal life in the book how to be an animal, a new history of what it means to be human rights, and I put on your Christian lands should have a fairly strong reaction that does everything we believe about what it means to be human made in the image of God or the embargoed day, is contrary to what she's talking about.

Contrary to what Darwinian evolution teaches and what his theory up delayed so today on theology Thursday were to cannot unpack this on the nature of spiritual blindness because that's what's going on but thought behind all this. I know it's really easy because I'm guilty this all the time. Just go. These people are bunch of idiots. This lady whatever her name is Melanie challenger. She just hates God she's a fool. She's an idiot and I'm not going through my pearls to swine but you have to understand that a good chunk of the world. Inks like this. Okay, they may not be able to express it as specifically as Melanie can, but they think like this and this has massive implications so recently on the on the campus of BJ you seminary and University. Our good friend Dr. Matt Rathbun has the head of the Center for biblical worldview did a presentation in a conversation with Dr. Brian vote who's at BJ you in the chemistry department to kinda talk about this.

So Ren and Brian walking the show how aria all right are you doing today Steve very good what nothing rings and you got nothing will. I wanted I wanted Brian to be respect your elders.

Very good is the smart one. So how does this stuff even get on your radar screen.

A biblical worldview guy chemistry teacher and then obviously a very very much at Darwinian evolutionists perspective on humans as animals. How the skies get on your radar screen.

You guys and then let's talk about what you did on campus this week there will cannot unpack and pull the meat out of okay so God wired me to be an interdisciplinary guy. Steve studied biology and chemistry as an undergraduate and undergraduate degree in pharmaceutical sciences, which is one of the most interdisciplinary sciences because it connects to give thanks so much, I I I often think in terms of connections. That's who I am and so when I read stuff that connects things up. I find it interesting.

So I came across this book, how to be animal last year when I was reading something on the and there were these glowing rave reviews about how wonderful his book is and so I thought will pick it up and will start reading it and what it actually uses it as it is a seriously interdisciplinary book.

The author Melanie challenger is an unusual lady.

She not only is into things that are scientific, but she's also into the arts has done music and poetry and things like that but her book is primarily an attack on human exceptionalism and she is primarily trying to make it clear that she sinks that were just animals and as you pointed out already. A lot of people think that way.

A lot of scientists think that way.

But as you read it she's doing us a big favor by opening cracking open her brain and saying here's how I think and it isn't just her thinking she's actually preaching to the choir as you would say because she's addressing people who are in many areas and so when you read this, I mean if you really want to look at a book that shows you what happens when you embrace an un-biblical worldview and what you're thinking goes logically. This is a great book. It's bursting at the seams with problems so it's in a course I guide you with college students all the time and because of that, and on. I'm a believer, Bob Jones University I'm dealing in worldview issues all the time you come up and and in the stuff I teach it comes up. So this is how we started off in the book is in this way of thinking. I teach Christian ethics appear with high school students. One of the classes I teach at one of the quotes that I use at one point in the class is from peer singers that had ethicists at Princeton who says a dog is a pig is a rat is a boy but they're all basically just animals of a different type and then equating value. Of course if you kill a rapper skillet baby in the womb. There's really no difference. Rat is a pig is a dog is a boy but for you Renton is as kind of a biblical worldview, expert, and that's really what got us having you focus on down at BJ. You went when you found out about this.

What was your reaction to it. How to be animal will win.

When Brian brought this he brought it to me because of Bob Jones. We have the we do a lot of collaborating because we know that biblical worldview is not a subject by itself, but it is the subject that imbues itself and everything else and so we typically the science department has this has a conference kinda for the faculty and and the they kind of explore different things to different topics, different ideas, different strategies in science and we decided to create a biblical worldview theme that addresses this book open it to the public, as well as our faculty because when I first saw this.

What I saw was like what Brian said there really demonstrating how their thinking about that right right it's not you know it's not just not trying to convince you to be an evolutionist nursing having believed evolution. Let's move forward to what they are. So that's the whole operating system not just a bumper sticker were talking different Rathbun Brian vote will be back all you animals.

I'm glad you're here today. Steve, noble to see no-show theology Thursday. Did you just call me and I did. I just called you an animal, but I'm just doing what Melanie challenger is assessing a lot other people of the assessed really going back to know about 1859 in the origin of species by Charles Darwin how to be an animal or how to be animal, a new history of what it means to be human by Melanie challenger and we've got today and theology Thursday our buddy Dr. Renton Rathbun back in the house and if a biblical worldview and then adding to it that Dr. Brian vote is at BJ you in the chemistry department and and talking about this book, they just did a bit of a forum on it to unpack it in really dug. I want you to think globally on top of it at the notion of truth, of course, but spiritual blindness. Why does somebody like Melanie challenger hold the belief that she has.

Why do so many other people hold those beliefs. Beliefs white wire there probably a lot of people that would be easily led astray by the these beliefs. We have to get into all of this but I appreciate Renton Brian you guys being here today. Thanks so much for your time so so the problem being that like Melanie challenger people actually think that humans are animals right which is a highly evolved animal so that's a problem is yeah all right.

Next question will it it's definitely a problem there animals.

I mean, Melanie challenger makes a point, particularly of if you think our exceptional gifts are what make us different.

You're just basically wrong about that and I would have to agree with her that is in our gifts that make us exceptional or exceptional because God created us in his image. So if you view yourself as an animal you're going to behave as an animal you're going to treat yourself as an animal and then the implications ethical moral practical in every way organist.

A lot of your life constantly and you can find out you to be unhappy because we are wired by our Creator to be happy when we live in the right way that reflects the fact that we are made in his image. How are her arguments in this that mankind is just an advanced animal. How does she argue that she she has a lot of assertions. I don't think she is a very good job supporting her assertions. She consults authorities to say well I think this are I think that I think this and they're throwing out the standard line philosophically, which is interesting since most scientists are fairly uncomfortable when it comes to discussing things that are philosophical in nature.

They all have philosophical elements in their thinking. They deny it and realize it, but you can see that there and one of the things that I find interesting is I think there are regular patterns in how spiritual blindness is manifested. There is a denial component which can be very harsh and abrasive from some people. Some people like how to be animal, denial was still there.

It can be.

Not quite as direct and as harsh, but it still denial it's made to look sanitized because it's couched in terms of well scientists think this and I think that they think this it still denial can be very soft kind of denial you know people who will say well I just can't get saved because I can't believe in something that I can't see that still denial these these kind of things are patterns in the symptom for people who are spiritually blind and one of the things that I find interesting. Also was people think that you can hear some of your spiritual blindness just by telling them their spiritual blind. It's like how many times have you or somebody you know thought something like why can't someone so see this is so obvious to me because they're stupid that's why that's exactly right. And that's how we treat him well it spiritual is usually discerned what you are spiritually stupid right and I have I have kind red green color blindness and there was a time when my wife and I going to the same optometrist and she was in with me while he was asking me about some stuff and you shall be with graphics and visible book he had and he said what you see and I would say I see a six and then he would show it to Carla and they would both laugh, and then he showed me a graphic and I would say it's a what you see I C-17 it showed to Carla and they would giggle and laugh some more. And the reality is there are things there that it's impossible for me to see correctly because I have this kind red green color blindness. You can have either my optometrist or my wife say can't you see this here let me show it to right is right and the answer is no, I cannot get that literal and that's house right.

I literally and this is this is so spiritually blind people are such an important point they cannot see and being frustrated with them and saying okay and you see it right here and they can't see it yet.

That's anything Renton.

You and I talk about Romans one pretty often.

Almost every time you're on the show. It comes out and support people pick people struggle with some some questions that I I'm sensitive towards it because it's logical like hey well, it's kinda, I can see how human beings would descend from apes because they sometimes act like humans. I mean there's some legitimate questions out there and when you when you understand the theory of evolution given enough time, you can sit there and go okay well you know what I can actually understand how they can start to work right me. That's legitimate that people can kind of flirt with that are embrace will and and you know to give Melanie challenger some credit.

She was able to create an argument that kind of put down the Aristotelian style of Christianity and what I mean by that is, she said you know were an animal.

We just happen have more gifts so you know. Typically, Christians go will. Can't you see that we can reason and a dog can't write a book and you wrote a book. Can't you see that that's amazing and she would sit will. Those are just gifts. You know the dog doesn't have the gifts I have, but that doesn't mean you know in our being were that different. And so now how do you argue with you really have to go back to what is it mean to be made in God's image. Is it just that I can reason and that's what God's images. I mean, because it really opens up really good question seven what what about someone who was in an accident and they can't reason anymore and they're laying in a bed. Are they no longer in God's image right you know, and so what's nice about the book is really challenges the Christian to say what do we mean by made in God's image, because that is the key component that makes us think differently than what how she's thinking and theologically, biblically speaking from a Christian perspective like theistic evolution that God directed the process that it we actually did start as animals in God, directed the process and eventually we got to what the form that we see ourselves today. How much of a problem is that from a biblical perspective, is there room in Christianity for that, thinking, or is there not you should. Well, of course, there is disagreement in the body of Christ over this issue and I would particularly point to people who are theistic evolutionists who claim the name of the Lord, and I think there are theistic evolutionists that know the Lord and I know some of them and I have no problem in sitting down and having discussions with them even though we disagree and where we have a major disagreement is the authority issues and I take the week but let me just jump and because applicants the break authority means you believe God's narrative are not that we mean yes and is a true partner. If I could hold that a problem hold that thought. The two-part narrative coming up on a break. This is Steve Noble Dr. Brent Rathbone and Dr. Brian Vo will be right back showed theology Thursday as it is J use seminary as well as Bob Jones today are our friend Dr. Brent Rathbone back in the house.

Center for biblical worldview joined by Dr. Brian vote whose and at BJ you in the chemistry department talking about a book that I would say I would recommend to you if you're a spiritually mature your minds in a pretty good place and you want to see how quickly the other side thinks which is really important because there's a lot of people on this planet that think along these lines, even though they might not express it as distinctly as Melanie challenger has in her book how to be animal, a new history of what it means to be human and we are talking about asked the question. Thanks guys for being there asked the question, Brian said there's kind of a two-part story about dealing with that theistic evolution if you don't know that means that means you your kinda putting the evolutionary mindset into the Bible and that what we don't know that the 60s were literal and maybe God that Adam anything is more metaphorical and so the first human beings are actually yes descendent from the apes in God. That's a God directed process to which I say, why didn't he just hurry it up like what's the slow process about but then you gotta go to what you said Brian which was the authority of Scripture. So he said he had kind of a two-part way of handling that this is a really important question, so I'd love to hear you okay so the revelation of God. He is given as can be easily broken down into two parts. The first part is, of course, the Bible, God's written word which we call special revelation and the second part is the natural world will recall general revelation. In reality, the Bible, God special revelation is the highest authority. It's the clearest authority and it is our rule for faith and practice know one of the things that I disagree with theistic evolutionists about is the role of general revelation.

The Bible does teach us the general revelation is limited. What we can learn from it. The limits are given in the Scripture but the theistic evolutionist wants to take take natural revelation which they most often called the book of nature. That's a very common commonly used term in theistic evolution and they say well you know the book of nature and the and in the Bible don't disagree, and that's true. They don't but the role of special revelation supersedes that of general revelation and I think every theistic evolution would probably say that that's true, but what I observed happening is people who are theistic evolutionists look at nature and they look at the evidence, which is the same thing that I would do. We don't disagree on evidence were we disagree is what the evidence means on the interpretation of the evidence and the link between those interpretations of what the Bible has to say. So if there is a if there is a distinction between what science is saying and these can be believing scientists are unbelieving scientists about what the book of nature means and what special revelation the Bible says I'm going with what the Bible says every time you that's likely I think simpler Scripture to interpret more complicated Scripture sure and and yet I do see instances were theistic evolutionists elevate the role of the book of nature and not just the evidence, but what people say. The evidence means above what the Scripture says that is a fatal flaw and that that is the core of where I disagree with theistic evolutionist. Yet, which is that the crack that can spread because you're not dealing with authority, the Bible and well a five. I think it's negotiable here maybe a little off here one way or another where else as it can be a problem so that that's an obscene issue inside the body of Christ.

But back to Melanie challenger so Renton said with Melanie's well thought out you smart person. That's not really the issue is no issue. Is this something you would said earlier before the show.

Or maybe it was during a camera but you said that she's kind of she's like an evangelist. She has she has a gospel, at least in her view a gospel to preach in the gospel is this world does not need God. That was the same message that Stephen Hawking had that you know instant creation can happen without a God so he wrote know the grand design.

And here's Melanie challenger saying now that we know were animal. This is how you know. Therefore, this is how we ought to live. She really is like a like a secular princess Schaefer no hell now shall we live now that we know this got so so and in the biggest danger here, even speaking of of those that want to try and make a connection with this kind of thinking to theistic evolution is you have to be really careful what we do with Adam when was Adam was Adam an actual person because if you start messing with that you if you're really follow evolution than when did God you know where's the story were God decided okay this this hominid has has evolved enough subdominant dump the soul into that one and let the rest die all right. This will be Adam reword is that story I gotta start inserting all kinds of stuff yeah you start a new story. And if you start messing with that. Then you start messing with the second Adam, because the second Adam doesn't have the meaning the Scripture says it has if we don't believe in the first real Adam that you like that because the big problem fast but back to what Melanie challenger.

So ultimately it's not her inability to be intellectual. She's really her. I guess our main promise spiritual blindness is that's it remains Bruker main problem is spiritual blindness and I think probably the best example spiritual blindness in the Bible is the soul who is also known by his Roman name Paul in the account in acts in a course. He gives us his his pedigree.

His credentials, his academic credentials and all the things that he's done none of that's in his education.

None of that stuff was adequate to bring Paul out of his spiritual blindness. I type what one of things I find so interesting about that story is one the Lord conferred spiritual site on Paul at the same instant he gave him temporary temporary physical blindness and then you know he had. He had to go sit down and for three days. Paul didn't eat anything. He didn't drink anything and I read that I say to myself what was he doing what he was thinking and what was he thinking what I'm thinking.

If I recall I be saying to myself how could I possibly been so wrong my entire life to Jesus Christ as Lord and I see it so clearly now why did I see it before and Kirsten is physical blindness is temporary physical blindness was taken away in he took it from there. But this is the point here is a man who had every advantage possible. That would've been expected to have spiritual site and he didn't because you gotta get it from the Lord, you got hear the gospel, you could have the spiritual blinders takeoff taken off of you and the only way those spiritual blinders can be taken off of you is have the Holy Spirit commit and remove them from your eyes. There is no other way and that's what it's can it take for Melanie challenger right can't you can't debate somebody or argue someone into spiritual site right and I got back is going end of the solution which will just gonna tee off now but will will get more into that and that way a lot of broad applications I want to get to in the last segment but her thing is that you note hey Melanie, are spiritually blind, well look executive. That's like back to your example you're in the optometrist and you can't see anything that's you guys are okay great, that's helpful. So that doesn't work, nor haven't any put this in the point not having a good pedigree or formal education.

That's not the solution. I mean you're smart guys and you can get into a great debate you can make a lot of points but if there problem in Melanie's case and for most other people's spiritual blindness. Your excellent arguing abilities and your ability to put together case let go back to Paul and Saul that's knocking to get it done either right. This is purely a spiritual transaction that needs to occur will and I it's something that we even discussed in one of your past shows on big apologetics I mean there is a place for breaking down those barriers that people hold up to comfort themselves. And we can break those down and the things she brings up in her book. We can show that there's problems all throughout her book, but that's not going to bring her to her knees. We can show her that her entire system of thought actually leads to a self-contradiction and it still won't bring her to earnings because she is not neutral towards God and is just confused.

She is in rebellion. She is suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. This is an activity she is constantly doing until we get out the big guns which is the gospel and the Holy Spirit works through God's word and that destroys her so that she might be raised again with Christ.

Yeah, that's the remarkable thing about that and in the and further for those of us that are capable of arguing that like to argue. I think our pride gets in there because I want to win the argument, I want to claim the prize. I want to get that I want to get the little crown on my head. I want to get the trophy on to get the enemy only get the Oscar and then in that if you can't get it done. Tell me every Terry and everybody. If you get frustrated when you can't convince an unbeliever of things of spiritual nature spiritual truth. That's frustrating is an enemy to the point of anger. But we have to come to the point where he realized we can't cross that line. Looking back at Steve Noble to Steve Noble, show theology Thursday with her friends at BJ's seminary as well as Bob Jones University here today with our friend Renton rap and Dr. rap in his back. Center for biblical worldview and a new addition to the show lineup now. Dr. Brian vote.

He works at Bob Jones University in the chemistry department and they did a symposium. Just the other day talking about Melanie challenger's book came out about a year ago how to be animal, a new history of what it means to be human and she's completely embraced the notion that were just descended from apes, and the difference between us and eights or any other animal life form on the planet is just we have more special gas and so we got I guess we ended up on the right branch at the right time in the right tree of life, and so by being but a boom not get an iPhone 13 in my hands and we just kind of lucked out. So thank you nobody for that. That's just the way it went and and we just enjoy that a dog the pig is a rat is a boy. As Dr. Singer says at Princeton University that has massive ethical implications. Obviously in that mindset, whether it's obviously animalistic.

In this case or naturalistic secular humanism. This is all over the place in this is the system. This is an operating system that's been built in to your kids and my kids and your grandkids and my grandkids from the early stage in regard first great thing right there.

Great especially if they're in the public school system and Darwinian evolution. Real the theory of Darwinian evolution rules the roost and we just descended from apes, and obviously will look at me, and it's obvious to arms to legs that help around the car look like us, you can teach them to do different things or just an advanced version of innate and all that stuff. The problem right, we just lost a month to keep an eye open on that. I don't know if that was our zoomer. There is, you know the I think that a promise to just keep Zoom open and will see if they jump back in and then the implications of all this, so her book the dangerous thing about her book is that she's going to present a compelling case and it's going to appeal. We were talking about this with Renton and Brian.

It's going to appeal to people that somewhere in the in the spirit in their mind they don't want the biblical worldview to be true because like I said earlier, if God is real, and it's the God of the Bible. There's so much baggage there that comes with the moral law, a moral law that's nonnegotiable judgment for your transgression of the moral law that the requirement that you confess it that you see it and that you bend the knee to a king other than yourself.

There's all kind and then it cause you to live a certain type of life and to follow him in love and obedience in man that that radically alters the trajectory of your life is not about you anymore. You're not the king you're not on the throne somebody else's.

In this case, asking Jesus so if you're looking for a way out.

Even if it's not the front of your thought. But you're just not comfortable you're not there. Maybe it is actually not a believer maybe your grown up around it like we talk with Stuart Scott in the last theology Thursday in a pagan Christian Summit knows the language goes to church does all the stuff, but they're actually not converted and not born again.

Then when something comes along that's compelling that the leg seems to be a silver bullet that you can put your gun in order to get rid of the whole God thing you'll use it you put that bullet in your gun and you'll pull the trigger and that's the danger that there what there on the phone while we jump over there. Sue happens there out there you go you guys back. Now you're on the phone. We are back good good recovery that that was good.

I was feeling as much as I could write. Let's appreciate you guys jump back in sorry Colossians inlets stay on the phone okay so we know the spiritual blind need to hear the gospel they have to have Jesus confront them and remove their blinders we have to embrace that yeah you got appeal that apologetics is important because you don't know that God might work through an intellectual conversation through debate through tearing down some of these things and set themselves up against the knowledge of God, but ultimately we all have to understand that the spiritual transaction that needs to take place not between me and that person, but between that person and God. In this case were talking about Melanie challenger is the author of how to be animal, but let's talk about you guys, that kind of the application of this somewhat when we take away from this and just how we live our lives in a culture that's got a lot of people that think like this and in an understanding that spiritual problem we do with all that.

How should I weep that we live with all of that is a reality. What I tell my you have to begin with, being able to preach and really good at all. Bill Burke really talk about how to wipe all the way preach to other people. Rebecca, I think so yeah I gotcha. Okay apologetics reach other people Zoom is given off on so right. We know we apologetic book you a good argument. People workers do it that we need and we need to learn how to preach for so be able to keep talking and and develop a through God's word in ourselves because when we start being hurt doing on a regular we start getting better talking to others about well just think that's a huge point and and in one of the challenges I mentioned this earlier. Brian, you can speak to this is just being patient and general because can be really frustrating.

Can they not hear me. They can hear me back to the phone that we having fun. Are we having fun yet is not fun.

They can't hear me but I can hear them.

That's a dangerous environment. I gotcha. I hear I can't hear you of this keep on talking because the because were going to keep going I could. We can hear you now. I'm sorry that this code becomes a just keep going well tell you this if if we can convince people to that the work we do in our hearts with God and do business with God. We start running into our own doubts. We start running into our own issues that are other people's issues to we could really do a lot of good. When were preaching to ourselves when were really using God's word and using the privilege we have in speaking to God, I mean we just give we can't give up on prayer wheel is called prayer something is that, as a greeting or a way to stop talking to someone will pray for your right and we receive zero power and unders incredible power. I'd also like to add a few things to that II think probably most of us that have tried to reach other people for the Lord I run into situations where we feel like we failed like I blew that show I could handle that better. Why didn't I say this. Maybe I shouldn't have said that now those are all important things but the reality is that that other person's eternal destiny is not a function of how well Brian vote argues it's not it's not a function of his Brian vote, a perfect Christian it's a function entirely of God's grace and of the Lord getting down into that life and saving that person. This does not leave me off the hook. As far as my responsibility to the Lord is concerned, but it it is true that I cannot alleviate that spiritual blindness and so the realism again. This is frustrating me, but it happens right and so you get into that one of these are points. Let me know if you get back. And when things got a member here like if you like.

Here are some questions that came out of the form. What role should apologetics play when attempting to evangelize the spiritually blind are debates against evolution is theologically pointless because we can't argue some another belief right so and then 1/3 on which is inching which we deftly don't have time for. Can the Bible be applied to every area of science and say yes, but to those other two points at him to put those together.

Okay, what role should apologetics play when attempting to evangelize the spiritually blind and are debates against evolution is theologically pointless because again argue some another belief okay to what role should product play.

It has a role because the mind is part of the conversion process you have to think it's like the Lord tells us that Jesus does love the Lord our heart, soul, mind and strength to take every thought captive right the mind and the intellect is a part of the story because about the gospel. For some people.

They have a very simplistic fate, but a lot of people, especially today because of so much information coming at us that at the intellectual side of it is important, but just think of that as I can on-ramp to the highway. The highways, the gospel in the power of the spirit. There's an on-ramp there that could be an apologetic conversation that your putting some stones in their shoes helping them trying to help in think the intellectual side trying to help them think. Just be logical about some things, while knowing that that's not going to get you across the chasm of salvation. Ultimately that's a virtual thing yet still there. We are here yet. Good. And so, again, that like even debating with evolutionists. I would say state stay in the debate and witness to them by the way you treat them and then maybe you're causing some interesting things to go on in their head and then you gotta trust the Lord of the rest of it.

Don't you write. I don't think it appropriate argument with evolutionists is important for you interact with them in the thing you're probably interacted with those opposed some good.

After all, we cannot open a lot were not play with me. We can show the Marie that's right on the reason I love them where they're at. Show them patience and compassion. Be kind about wise as serpents and was a dove, pray and trust the Lord. But you should deftly be engaged because it might be. It's not always good to be us. But one time it might be you that God is using to bring them to salvation through that conversation and I can say one thing Brian and I rented. If you guys ever come up here will do the show we not to worry about zoom when that be nice. I think you think you guys got bless you Zaria had that problem but I will get around that. Thanks so much for being here and being a part of. So I really appreciate you guys got bless you.

Thanks so much everybody there's another theology Thursday, you should share these conversations by the way, okay, you get access to this kind of knowledge and wisdom to not talk about Mina talking about.

There is all that often, this is Steve Noble on the Steve Noble shell, God willing on talked again real soon and like my dad always used to say ever forward another program powered by the Truth Network

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