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Dr. Danny Akin

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April 27, 2021 3:24 pm

Dr. Danny Akin

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April 27, 2021 3:24 pm

Dr. Danny Akin

Today Dr. Danny Akin joins Steve in the studio to talk about Christians and the racial climate and how we should respond.


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Everyone is time for this noble show where biblical Christianity meets the everyday issues of life in your home, at work, and even in politics. Steve is an ordinary man who believes in an extraordinary God it on a show, there's plenty of grace and lots of true no sacred cows. 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH or checking out now is your house noble and great thought to go live the thinking back in the house today so I'm thinking I should play back in the saddle again just hit me.

The function of age is the greatest thing the computer mind are too little too late.

Anyways great to see you welcome back. Thanks is good to be here. As always, you can't relate to that. Of course I do that on the air to know the sermon you forget do it lots of times including sermons. Beginning middle and end, that on a regular basis as being 64 years about yes yet doesn't get any easier, but we are one step closer to heaven and they admit it's great to see you. Thanks for driving all way down.

Thank you my joy. Let's there was one time when you drove all the way down member when I moved only downtown Raleigh. Yes and Danny came down for theology Thursday and any was very kind, insane, next time you came you really what's the status of getting a studio set up and out of the school. Well you might have more to do that than I do and you were kind but firm because I'm never driving down here get and did not remember it was super quick. Yes, like within 456 weeks, the studio was ready, yes, I was miraculously not amazing.

It was so funny and but I appreciate your patience and in your pull out their southeastern speaking of the seminary. How are things going. What probably the strangest school year in all school years. I would imagine it has been very strange, but the Lord is been very good. We are at. They 13th year of record enrollment with a 5700 students, we now educate folks from juniors in high school all the way through the PhD were in Wake Forest were across North America and Steve, we have literally hundreds and hundreds of students all around the world at least 300+ sewer full-time career IMB missionaries that are also taking classes to further develop their skills and gifts for the missionary assignment so the way we deliver theological education has radically changed over the last decade, and it's not going back to the old model and that schools that have not adapted or struggling schools that have a flourishing and again it allows us to touch literally the world with the gospel and with theological education. So even though it's been a very strange year been a very good year and for the most part were back to normal on our campus were still social distancing wearing masks about that and had had very few covert case you are in our students and staff. In fact we've done really really well.

So strange year but a wonderful year in so many ways yeah and then I remember when you said the 5000 number and I've said this when we done radio for years. It really isn't all that long ago theology Thursday probably goes back to 2015 or something at least what it was was well you know are hoping to hit 3000 and then it just kinda keeps climbing and interesting lap like that Stu Epperson, our mutual friends. Jefferson Junior truth radio sent me a note and Bob Jones University leader found a poll or had a poll done looking at some numbers around the country. How there is there really having a hard time with young men and women wanting to get into the ministry specifically senior pastors is that something you guys have seen southeastern weather is just were seeing more students, but we are actually seeing less students wanting to go into the senior pastor rolled in part of the reason I think is safe saying how some pastors been treated yeah and there like I will serve the Lord but I don't need that and that's sad right but test indictment on too many churches. Others, though right now are just really in love with Jesus. They want to serve him in some vocational manner that is not yet sure what that looks like, and so they come kinda certain of a call, but needing to clarify that and that's okay you trained them well and then send them out where it is that God wants him to go.

I am praying that more and more we want to be senior pastor because we recognize were moving generationally.

There's a lot of really significant churches were not open up over the next 10 years and we need to have men that are equipped and willing to go into those kind of churches. A lot of our guys. I am happy to go plant a church. I'm happy to lead a church that I can manage in terms of the overall congregation go to a church that runs 2000 or more. I'm not interested, they can't have in a mega-church allergy and look mega churches have strengths and weaknesses, but they can do a lot of good things, that takes a lot of little churches coming together to pull off and so I'm grateful for them and we do need more men, faithful expositors, faithful evangelists, missionary hearts, but that are willing to go into those kind of churches and lead them yeah and were obviously in a strange season.Dr. Aiken and I were talking outside before he came in to get on the air about the rapidity at which everything has changed.

I think the depths of the change and were in a an environment in the church were to talk about in the context today of some racial issues but were in an environment now that you are saying outside, you knew this was coming. As we as we have a any kind of a healthy eschatology whatsoever.

You kinda know the trendline, but the rapidity how fast things of change and how much they change is truly shocking. Yes I have said for number of years that we would eventually kinda get to place in America where we are today, but I myself was surprised am surprised about how quickly it's happened and liked what you put it, the depth in which the change has occurred and I mean it's like if you went to sleep yesterday you wake up today is a completely different world. And here's but it's a new normal. And here's my greatest concern.

This is currently the world that my grandchildren, your grandchildren are are going up in Vermont folks in particular, my grandchildren will never know a world where same-sex marriage.

For example, was not the law of the land in other works for them.

It's always been, even though we know know until about five years ago.

It wasn't the law of the land it what same-sex marriage wasn't recognized anywhere in our history by any culture and now it's pandemic is not just across America is across the world in many places Africa holding out with their strong Christian moorings. It also with the influence of Islam and people tend to look down on them. That's one of the things that frustrates me without Western elites, who tend to think that theirs is the a superior intellect or kinda comes back from Star Trek will know yours isn't the superior intellect.

Your intellect is just as fallen as anybody else's. And for you to think that is the height of arrogance and pride, which by the way is the very core of this fallen gentle nature that's exactly right. Yeah, really, really shocking. All I was thinking a rip and being twinkle as you're describing that you go to sleep and you wake up and it's a whole different world. Add zip 10's or 20s or 30s of years have gone by.

They have and it's only been 14 months out of the church respond.

How do we deal with racial issues. How do we find our place in this business and you not like it, put it pagan nation. Welcome to Babylon because that's what the United States of America is today. Dr. Danny Akin, the president southeastern will be right back and live you can jump on their whatever platform you want to be D platform from from in the near future. Whatever your choice, take, take your pick. But Dr. Aiken back in the house today and talking from a 30,000 foot view were just considering the environment that were now as followers of Jesus in the context of America in 2021, which is radically changed in the last 14 months, and specifically will spend some time what will dive down into the racial issue now because we've seen this event been pretty in the church. No, I am people that know the word that love Jesus, that understand the sin of racism, but as we wrestle through it.

I mean, I've wrestled through it.

The very first time I had a conversation with anybody at southeastern. It was maleic Blade is to be there involved with the kingdom diversity initiative and we're getting into it on Facebook and I'm like you know what this is not healthy. So then I just sent him a private message that let's get on a phone call. Let's be like circa 1980 and we spent I was driving he was driving.

We spent about an hour on the phone and that's what our actual friendship began, yet where we could actually have a dialogue, but it's been been coming in the Southern Baptist convention. It's been difficult in the seminary. It's probably been difficult, but from your perspective, evangelicalism, whether it's SBC or evangelicalism dealing with race just just general thoughts on where were well is a lot of three steps forward two steps back to I think that within the so the best convention. In particular, we are trying to move forward. We recognize that we have a very sordid and embarrassing past that we have to own up to and and we did on one level in 1995 with a resolution to our African-American brothers and sisters acknowledging our racist past.

Asking for forgiveness.

Recognizing that racism exists. This is interesting Steve Allwood back in 1995 in resolution. We said racism exist both on the personal and systemic level that's in a 1995 resolution that was ahead of the of the curve way ahead of the curve way ahead of the curve and then since then, we passed a resolution on the use of the Confederate battle flag. We passed a resolution on white supremacy in the all right.

And so we continue to move forward. In some ways, but for example last November 6 Amir presents came out with a statement criticizing critical race theory and intersection alley saying we did not believe those ideologies are worldviews were compatible with of the Baptist Faith and message. 2000.

It set off a firestorm, especially among black brothers and sisters, which was never our intent and when we sit down and if talked and I have many conversations. Their response will be. What we don't believe it's a helpful worldview or ideology either. But it seems to us that you were discounting our experience. You were saying to us that systemic racism doesn't exist which we weren't saying but I need to be fair that's how it hit them.

So at least have to step back and say all right if this is how my brother and sister says this impacted them. I have to at least begin to ask the question why sure. How could we have said what we said in a different kind of way to still make the point and I'm still believe with with all of my being that critical race theory and intersection alley are not compatible with a biblical worldview.

I think that they are exceeds in their foundation are sown in Marxist ideology and that they divide everything into good guys and bad guys along racial lines. Either you are an oppressed individual or you DR oppressed sore and that's not determined necessarily by your behavior, but by your skin pigmentation that is so contrary off to what the Bible teaches in terms of is now being one big family in Christ, but the same father worshiping the same Savior indwelt by the same Holy Spirit, and so because of those influences in the culture that unfortunately make their way into the church. We have had some pretty tough conversations over the last 12, 14, 16, 18 months, but I'm committed to moving forward not committing to finding a biblical path forward and whether it's hard or easy it would be hard. That's okay I will do the hard work because it's the right thing right exactly right here. You keep using the word division and for us in the church. Listen, I get it out there. Yes, I understand how Babylon operates. I have a problem with it, obviously, but I but I get it. You squeeze a lemon. I know it's in the, but inside the body of Christ. That's different is in. I think we'll perhaps either by hook or by crook, whited out that part about being slow to speak, slow to anger, and quick to listen and because the social media in this thing and this thing will be here my stupid phone enable worst parts anyways and so we come out swinging all the time. Everybody's triggered about everything. So when we sit there and say millennial's and Jen's ear a bunch of snowflakes I think were all snowflakes in the environment. Welcome to the party. Everybody you're all a bunch of snowflakes. I'm a snowflake. Danny can be a snowflake coach want to be a snowflake to so that's the problem, but we have got a green humor is like a business owner might imagine a block and so we we rented us a limited backup a little bit and I don't know if we have the time to play this but I will. On the other side break so back in early March there was an article that came out about us.

It's a short video and out a minute 29 seconds we are talking about what's going on in the SBC.

I responded that talking about the SBC and the and I'm just telling I'm inviting you guys in the sequence. The others happens I wasn't addressing Danny personally, I was talking about the content right. But in this environment.

If somebody says something about an article that I meant in my face is on an unassuming talk about me so so some because Danny Danny text me and I like you know what, let's be countercultural. I praise the Lord here.

Let's actually have a conversation absolutely don't do that anymore know you and I work through some tough things in and I love you like a brother that you are saying in and there's the past, the present and the future and you're stuck with me whether you cannot alter all of you like it then you should be stationed across the across the river of life and in the been there in the streets of gold, don't cross the other of properly deserved some of that but but II appreciate the fact that week. This what we have to do we have to get back to the fact that we need to communicate, especially in Christian circles, we just don't we just throw crap at each other. Sorry I set up at work. Note but you're right, that is exactly what we do and as a result, we provide the most horrendous witness to a watching world that is always eyeballing us, always a Spurgeon said the watchdog barking furiously as soon as one sheet goes astray and so we have to realize that what we say on social media.

How we act is being either a good witness for Christ or something that is driving people away from the Gospels let people turn away from Jesus because of the gospel, not because we act like donkey back in exactly right. And that's the gospel defense of it enough as it said yes.

I reminded students and myself. I try to remind myself, you know, to those who are perishing, where the aroma of death. So don't make it any worse by being a jerk, but the Gospels top enough to deal with, especially from an American perspective the Protestant work ethic perspective a pride perspective I have that I have to surrender I have to give up. There's nothing I can do about this. I work my way out of everything. That's what you do in America and it's in its highly offensive to the American work ethic and it's just offensive in and of itself, and I realize that I cannot kowtow to the opinions of loss people, but I do need to be a faithful ambassador and be like Jesus, I asked people often Danny who did Jesus hammer the religious elite anybody else know cannot give anybody all the sinners he was mercy, kindness, grace and forgiveness and kindness while where I read that the kindness of God leads people to repentance based on the fact that I'm a colossal scumbag he loves me guys, for me anyway.

That's pretty time and that's what drew me will be right back. That was a joke by the way, when the president of the Southern Baptist seminary said that's a joke. Everybody, this is the Reformation.

Wilberforce was all about eliminating the slave state in the Great Britain and in the colonies, as well as if you don't know the side of his mission over 24+ years was the Reformation of manners, Danny Dr. and that any ache in the present Southeastern Baptist theological seminary is back in the studio and we need a Reformation of just a little bit of humor yes because we don't laugh much at all. Take everything personally. Yes and work like I said were all snowflakes now and then we cancel you and we cancel you right.

I think that is interestingly enough in this environment. I think this is a lost world equivalent of damnation, yes, but that's in the cards as we know what the deal is the laws written on our hearts. Romans one is no such thing as it is an atheist. Everybody knows God is the hundred pound gorilla in the room and so we don't and I can find the truth of Scripture, you make your own up to express it and replace it with a lie.

So now you damn people by canceling which all the stuff the spiritual darkness.

This is a great environment to run a seminary and by the way it is so much about what's going on in the world that we just okay luscious turn on the news for a day in the will be able to do a lot of application okay Seth, let's let's roll this out. Given the context here and really cheap really give the context first, which will then set the direction of the conversation we often don't do this, you just mention weed on the context. On twitter we don't really doing a Facebook we don't to context anywhere because that gets in the way of my confirmation bias Danny and that's a problem and I it's hard for me to be intellectually dishonest that there's this kind context to give us the contacts. An article in this little video clip I was approached by the ethics religiously the commission to speak to the issue of how do we integrate in the coming decades, people of color into our convention and into our leadership because we are growing only in one particular area that is among people of color are our white congregations are not growing. They are declining. But we are growing among Hispanics, Latinos are going among Asians and were going among African-Americans. So if that is the future. What do we need to do then to integrate in terms of our agencies are entities, leadership, people of color and so I was responding all right here are some ideas about what we can do to make that a reality as we move for okay so trigger warning.

You will deftly I think there's a good chance you hear something and it is going to trigger you know normally you would just cancel your retweet or whatever is a something and then we would be done. You'd move on and in your heart would be a little bit harder to be a little nastier because that's what we do anymore. Forget baseball Apple by all that stuff. Now we just work on hating each other. Okay Seth plays Calypso where to put your see the video on YouTube and on Facebook. You'll hear the clip audio icon emissions need to learn about all things. I think to be good listeners over the last several years I've tried to help build a culture for racial reconciliation and kingdom diversity, which is a core value of Southeastern seminary come to understand more and more that my perspective is not the perspective of the my African-American brothers and sisters are my Hispanic brothers and sisters my Asian brothers and sisters. They really do see life differently. Other operating out of a different paradigm a different context. That's very different than mine and I didn't really realize that until I stopped talking and begin to listen.

Roughly one other things that white evangelicals in particular got to do is become better listeners. In addition to that we got to be willing to surrender power, which is again not indigenous to our nature as I often cite knowledge.

We need to invite ethnic minorities into our room and to have a seat at the table.

We even need to be willing to surrender leadership at the table if it really will make progress and really a help our brothers, sisters, understand we see them on equal playing with ourselves.

Okay, so the trigger warning, obviously at one point he said a bunch of beautiful things about listening yada yada yada.

List what you said about James chapter 1 yada yada here, slow to speak right with a little okay okay whatever and then you get to the surrender, power, and then surrender leadership. Basically, in order to make progress. And that's when people get bonkers. That's I like okay and this is a typical white guy's response to use MLK because that's tricky tricky slippery little do right so I'm in use MLK and talk about the content or character rather than the color your skin and why can't we just hire people based on putting in leadership based on whether really good for the job or not it were discounting them because their skin color. Shame on us and I know that SBC doesn't do that. But why not just do that. But this is again were in a situation here where really clear-cut perspective like that when when were all walking on egg shells is is very difficult and it's not very effective, but we just innovate and so you got blasted for that. Yes I'm sure. Oh yes, I had people say with you really meant what you said you will resign the presence of right of Southeastern immediately and put a person of color in that position, ignoring the fact that I don't decide who sits in that chair number one openly. God decides who sits in the chair because he is sovereign and secondly it's a Board of Trustees that the side you who sits in that chair. But let me say this. First of all, I could've maybe been a tad clear when I said it is not indigenous to any of us to surrender power folks took that as a reference to white people know I'm at that about the human race. Whether you are a red, yellow, black light brown or some mixture of all of the above, it is not in our nature to surrender power because by our fallen nature driving us. We crave power, we won't power so we don't want to give up power. Secondly, I am surprised that people took it that way because in the Bible. The only time that power is really lifted up and exalted is the power of the gospel. In fact, first Corinthians 1 and two. Paul goes to great links to site God rejoices in putting down the strong lifting up the week putting down the prideful and lifting up the humble. The only power that Paul took delight in and brought in is the power of the gospel. So when I think about it. Talk about surrendering power, my mind immediately was revolving around Mark 10, where Jesus says we know in the Gentile world they they lorded over, and their great ones exercise authority over should not be that way with you if you want to be great in first in my world. You have to be a slave slave to be a servant. So that's all I was thinking about if I have a position of influence is the president of the center. I have power as a president of the seminary like how I use that is what matters. If I use it to build up and promote Danny Aiken that I'm using in the very sinful evil way. If I use it in a way to lift up others to serve others to help others. That's a very good thing and Steve only crew crystal clear. I actually agree hundred percent with what Martin Luther King said I would never put anyone in the position of responsibility or leadership simply because of the color of their skin. I wouldn't insult my average American brothers and sisters are my Hispanic brothers and sisters by putting someone in the position that all of us know is not fit or qualified for that position.

But what I do think is many of us who are white don't know very many African-Americans and Hispanics and Asians who are gifted and talented because we tend to gravitate toward our own particular well highlighting our own cave. Thank you. And so what I've learned over the years is you have to be intentional to build relationships with lost people. You have to be intentional build relationship with people of color. If you happen to be what about the white people of color have to work to build relationships with people who are white and one of the joys that I've experienced over the last decade. Southeastern is seeing that happen where we really do love another interact with one another. You know, we seen a significant increase of people emphatically leadership other administrative positions, people of color and then the student body. Gas has changed massively so and is been for the good. Then it changed because you decided to trust God, but that the do what you could see it, you have to work at it will not happen by accident, not in our context.maybe will happen just naturally somewhere else but you know what, if you go back to the book of acts. If you go to the book of Galatians and the book of Romans, you discover.

Guess what, it wasn't happening just naturally in the first century world. Either they had road but remember, acts six, where there was a fight in a fuss over who was serving which widows are getting sore right well as well. The church was barely a year old and they've already got an issue related to race related to difference in ethnicity so we should not be surprised that this is what we find today. Here's my point. If you listen to what I said with a hermeneutic of suspicion. Yeah, you're going to go after you if you listen to it with a hermeneutic of I want to give Danny the benefit of the doubt. You most likely would have drawn very different conclusions we gloss. We set aside the message we all need to hear on listening yes and I just get till a minute and five seconds or whatever and I hear the word surrender and power. And I hear surrender leadership and immediately in this context, a lot of white evangelicals will be okay. This is your coming after me for white privilege or something. McElroy's theoretical race theory intersection I only bad guy I've tried to be nice for all my life that it did were all guilty because the color your skin and what we have in America.

What were doing to a certain extent inside the church's were re-segregating the country. Yes, we are re-segregating America which will be its downfall. United we stand, divided we fall were doing that had long in the culture I get for doing in the church, which is a huge problem. How do we work our way forward to the glory of God for the good of God's people for the historical lifting up of his name was Only go a lot of things, whether or not stuck in the home. There are all kinds of things that you can do via that website to educate yourself and develop your worldview, your biblical knowledge or permanent everything we things all these free classes on there that all you gotta do is go to the website. Hit that Lincoln often when I was at the church this weekend, just south of Wilmington and I bet I had a dozen people to came up, I took your free online class and hermeneutics is change the way I approach the Bible so there are all sorts of things that are available there for people to use Facebook: check it. I love technical difficulties yeah and that's the thing about it and I talked about that for as many years as we have radio together is that the things that are there 33 is not a Southern Baptist test is not a covert test. There's nothing there just there and some of the greatest teaching in America theologically and make their own right to speech policy.

I like that because the elderly. Well I proven that already because I mean, let's like how many licks does it take to get to the center about what were the popsicle of the Al guy used to lick through the lollipop to get to the Tootsie Roll center to a stop. Guess how many licks does it take to get a Siemens all in all hot think you and then the other question is how many years can you take to get a Masters degree in what we you may be in the Guinness book we had wasn't the answer that as many as many more than a few less than a thousand more than Avery wasn't.

Yes, it was deftly more than three I just wanted is like a good bottle either savor it, you know, one step at a time zero make all kinds of excuses blowing across Finish Line praise the Lord actually got a limit to say that that was my daughter.

Millions were removed, moving her to Manhattan two weeks which is a good a good the Lord again humbling us, but she's the one, because I was done with classes, but I saw the right research paper and took couple years to finally but she's the one. It's a dead you have to finish you would never let us get away with that and as a good girl good girl when gun that was dead and God use that to light a fire in my button. Five months later we were done.

Amen in the day I got across the stage literally was one of the greatest days of my adult life to be able to have received all that to have a platform where some of that, God willing regurgitate out and to be able to share that was just this is an amazing blessing me to say that I was proud what you think. I appreciate that. Thank you so today talk about our way forward, let's, let's broaden the conversation and because we got my race but we have a politics we seen the body of Christ a bite of her race divide over presidential candidates divide over masks and COBIT were doing it now vaccine how do we we talked about this outside earlier that I just don't think we were ready to live in this world, and Arcana cotton candy strength as a church in America has been exposed and we don't really I think were floundering through it. I think were trying to find a way forward. I said I see I have hope. But it's really really difficult right now.

Well I think one thing we can do. Steve is learned some very valuable lessons from our brothers and sisters in the two thirds world where they have none of the benefits. None of the blessings and other privileges that you and I have. Do they have in some places the right to vote no.

Do they have freedom of speech know, are they coddled as a Christian, no right now in China, they are trying to do everything they can to destroy the local Christianity, even to now coming up with a communist translation of the Bible that so manipulates the text. It will be you will not be recognizable in any form or fashion, with the true word of God and so we can number one learn from them. Secondly, we can get typical and realize we would talk about this earlier. We are sojourners, aliens in this world. This world is not our home. So that's the second thing.

Thirdly, this is backing of the Bible and recognize that what did Jesus say by this shall all men know that you're my disciples by your great theology. No go by your persuasive arguments know about the way you love one another. I hate mask.

I cannot stand them. I have a mild form of asthma makes it hard for me to breeze and having a mask, but I will wear it because I want to love well yet. My brother and sister and Paul talks about surrendering rights, surrendering power for the blessing and benefit of others, and so I'm just simply go to walk in the footsteps of the Lord Jesus and I'll do that and I'll do that willingly and gladly because that's what my Lord would expect muted. I could insert my right center exert my power that I would not be following his example in doing that again even even in that I realized in and took much to my wife and younger daughters credit back and I don't know was probably May or June last year.

All the math stuff and then one day between the two of them had nothing to do it that they were just they just had a conversation said were tired of being angry 24 seven and I was set at all. Last year Danny and there is a quit we need to quit selling our joy down the river for a bowl of stew which is obviously a reference to Aesop quit just one of my cell in my joy down the river over the mass thing okay we can talk about the signs get all that and I know many of you are immediately going to that but they chose joy over the assertion of their freedom and their right yes and just do not want to live like that. An hour and then with other friends that are that are choosing to make a big issue of it.

I'm just I had to get to the point where I'm like okay I'm not there judge to try not to let it in fact like a virus. My relationship with other believers. Same thing with facts, you want to get it you got not to judge you.

We can talk about the ethics of different things fine but I'm not gonna divide the church over this up, which is exactly what Satan wants. And quite frankly it's that's exactly what the powers that be want the liberal elites want that and so I don't give us some advice to any we because I don't I'm not an abandonment theology guy. I still want to fight for the good of the nation because I love my neighbors and commanded to love someone to stay in the game, but in terms of us and the churchmen were just tearing each other apart. I'll give you an example so we been asked come the fall will southeastern require students to receive a vaccination to be admitted. We could do that, we sure are other kinds of vaccinations.

That is a right now know we can encourage it, but we will not require it.

All right, I'll be asked to. I'm going to Q&A tomorrow at 1030 until 1130 at the school I was asked or we can require mask and I will respond tomorrow. I hope not. I hope will be the point where we do not need to do that. But if we find out that we need to we will why out of obligation. Well yeah obligation to love well our brothers and sisters, if it will make them feel more comfortable, more say very small price to pay on my end in so again I want to put others first, and which is the way of Jesus which is not a scientific question by the now is not a by me if I'm if I'm causing other people. Again, this is the infringement of my freedom and I saw this in myself.

I can be a shock to me, so make sure your shoes are tight. I have a major rebel nature major league I would've never think of it, and breed having to read here the last for the whole night so I knew with all mass thing. You know what I hate I hate being told what to do. Of course now I can make a theological argument I can make a cultural argument I can make a governmental argument I can make a stinking constitutional argument, but again it should. I live the life of a Christian of always pounding the table to declare my rights for me. I got to the point room like milk as I don't live like why do we want to resist being told what to do home in that's a sin nature and pride were not humble with that.

What happened to Adam and Eve in the garden and we see the deleterious effects of that, don't we sure do. We are actually living the terrible effects of that. So how do we how do we work through this.

Well, I think, again, in all honesty, is the Lord giving us an occasion for discipleship and to really grow in our walk with him learning to surrender our rights. Learning to put others ahead of ourselves thinking more highly of others than we do ourselves which you can't miss all the way of Jesus. And so again I may disagree but because I want to love them well and care for them well and not presented, stumbling block either to an unbeliever or to believer I'll surrender those rights.

Hopefully all day long because their spiritual well-being and River.

Paul says, look, you may be strong in the Lord, but you do it for the weaker so you can sync okay. I'm stronger the will. If you are strong in the Lord, and guess what you'll be the first to surrender rights. Yeah, that such a very pleasant and was 14, and we can talk about you and I talked about a conversation with my niece of the Sundays she wanted to wear a mask to a church that doesn't require mask had a message on it and I'm like well you because some of the people to stumble and she was really buying that angle. She's a believer that's okay. Let's close the lid on that when the me open up another silo here. Let let's talk about peace do am I supposed to seek peace and pursue it if it's possible as far as it depends on the live live at peace with everyone I I would walk into an inner-city church a Bible believing church. That's largely African-American with the Trump 2020 force mask on my face. I wouldn't do it. Driver right to do it.

Yes. Do I have a legal right to do it yes can I make a biblical claim to do it. Based on my freedom maybe maybe, but which is more important to me exercising my freedom or why would I want to walk in there and make a mess with people to spend eternity with who are all supposed to love the same words serve the same master read from the same book. It doesn't make any sense will you mention the work piece since Colossians 3 pulses let the peace of God rule in your hearts and the word rule there means to act as an umpire while so when you're trying to make a decision as a good umpire you're going to choose for peace, not for hostility and discord so whatever promotes peace among my brothers and sisters. It's easy I'll always choose that first. Yeah such a good point, and again live I would just ask everybody I've struggled with this myself. Are you walking in peace last 14 months. Do you feel any presents the right questions to an end.

If you're not walking in peace not experiencing peace. I will challenge you to check your foundation doesn't mean you're not a believer but you may be a believer. That's not remembering the truth of God's word, and so again your guy lost my guy lost you sell your joy down the river for a bowl of stew named Donald Trump that your choice. I'm not gonna do it in loving, humble, and you file peace supposed actually is there a peace that surpasses understanding the guy read that some Dr. Denny Aiken, president of Southeast Baptist things from driving down the street having a great auto do it again absolutely sounds good and will just keep passing through these things. See that's what happened you lock yourselves in a room and have a conversation for an hour for the glory of God work through mental response be doing as Christians. See note on the signal, Michelle, God willing. I talked again real soon.

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