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Mental Health/Suicide w/Pastor Chad Harvey

The Steve Noble Show / Steve Noble
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April 8, 2021 2:35 pm

Mental Health/Suicide w/Pastor Chad Harvey

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April 8, 2021 2:35 pm

Mental Health/Suicide w/Pastor Chad Harvey

Today Steve talks about some heavy topics on today's Theology Thursday with Pastor Chad Harvey of Cross Assembly Church in Raleigh NC. 


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The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network mobile show where biblical Christianity meets the everyday issues of life in your home, at work, and even in politics. Steve is an ordinary man who believes in an extraordinary dog on a show, there's plenty of grace and truth, but no sacred cows call Steve Bell at 86 34 through 866-34-TRUTH or check them out online, Steve Noble now there's your host Steve Noble. Blasphemer surveyed about 5400 US adults to gauge how the crisis has affected American mental health according to the report over 40% of those surveyed said that they had experienced a mental or behavioral health condition related to the coronavirus epidemic. Overall 25 Naprosyn respondents said they experience symptoms of anxiety disorder while 24.3% said they experience symptoms of depression.

Further, the researchers found that 10.7% of all the respondents is about 5540 people said that they had considered suicide while at some point during the 30 days leading up to the survey that was last June.

Okay. And then then they said it's actually quite worse amongst Americans age 18, 24, so the younger you get, the worse it gets.

Then there is this from the American psychiatric Association. For now, this is recent 48% of Americans are anxious about getting COBIT 40% are anxious about getting seriously ill or dying from COBIT, so if you wonder why so many people were there mass in the car.

That's because 40% of your fellow citizens are seriously concerned about getting seriously ill or dying from COBIT 62% are anxious about a family or loved one.

Getting COBIT and there's this this was from November of last year. Federal survey shows that 40% of Americans are now grappling with at least one mental health or drug-related problem, but young adults have been hit harder than any other age group with 75% struggling even more alarming when the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recently asked young adults that they thought about killing themselves in the past 30 days, one in four said they had while 25% mental health, emotional health, a train wreck really in America were to come at that today on theology Thursday as well as unfortunately sometimes that leads to suicide were to talk about that from a theological perspective and then on the other side of that. What do you do with our bodies when we die, hopefully not from suicide barium or burn you will talk about cremation. One of Pastor Chad Harvey from cross assemblies, favorite subjects actually sensed more developed about cremation.

That's because it is but but I think were probably get enough on the same page there and not actually that's one of the my ethics professors at the seminary in southeastern. That's one of his favorite subjects because we kinda just gloss over it.

I don't think anything of it but we should, as Christians will end up there but mental health, emotional health, anxiety, depression, where you go first as a pastor because you and I are talking about the software. I think for a lot, especially younger people growing up in evangelical churches that they've heard whether this is completely accurate and that they've heard the message essentially pray harder pray pray more love Jesus more and you'll be fine because if you go back to when you and I were teenagers. If you had anxiety or depression. How would your parents and how you handled that you yeah I know what mine did suck it up right you don't like to stop a bad mood on a quick crying in your milk today.

That's clearly not accept you yet. So you see I told you I love this work balance. I think when it comes mental health issues of balance is important on one end of the spectrum you have were the products of people like David Hume. The whole naturalism.

It's all natural. There's no spiritual ailment. On the other end of the spectrum is no it's all spiritual. It's all demonic and I think we need to be balanced. I think that some illness does have a biological physiological component. I think somewhat we call mental illness is spiritual. Listen. Sin makes you feel bad. Did you know that yeah when you go about living a reprobate life. It makes you feel bad and I do believe that demons exist.

I do think that there's demonic attacks and so I think we need to be balanced and that you knew you had some great Christians throughout history like Charles Spurgeon got Spurgeon talk about what he called fainting fits.

And you read this and he said you know there were times I despaired even for my life. It's almost like he's describing a depression so deep, yet you wonder what was he contemplating Jonathan Edwards a great leader. He had his wife Sarah Edwards went through a season after the birth.

One of the children of what we would call part of depression and that that was in the demon that wasn't spiritual that was we know now biological issue that she went through so I just save more balance it it it is rarely totally spiritual and is rarely totally physical. There is this a balance in the middle.

Do you think that it's incumbent upon us in the culture that we live in today and with or without COBIT that adds evangelical Christians listen.

One of the things I love being about a Bible thumping evangelical Christian today is I know what most people think of me. Most people outside the church more and kinda mushy Protestant denominations, mainline Protestants and nominations. I know what they think of me so I work pretty hard to not fall into that trap you think that we have an image problem when it comes to mental health in the church. What relative to what the last culture thinks of us like like I said that hey you guys don't even believe in it you don't believe in medication just love Jesus more and everything to be fine. You know, I think there's probably some of that that we we have to wrestle with in salute would not best job in acknowledging that there's a biological component. I also think that in the evangelical church among the young people today therapy is big we talk this last Sunday that there was some researchers out of Chapel Hill that looked at the evangelical message in American they should look that's not biblical. It's what they call moralistic therapeutic deism you and that God is your life coach and I was talking to young lady bits part of a small group not my church, but a strong Bible believing church.

She's when I go to the syndrome, navelgazing, talking about my syndrome. My issue, my, this my that and so I think maybe we have over Dr. fueled our young PLO. As you know I'm saying so it looked there's biological issues there spiritual issues. There's demonic issues. I think that we've also raised a generation of women some sound like your father now set up really all right but I do think you have to acknowledge that is will we think in America that if we are the slightest bit anxious or depressed there something wrong.

Let's go run demonstration right I'm reading about our forefathers in the face that not know their anxiety dealt with.

I might be burned alive to Mormonism of our Lord Jesus Christ you that cause some anxiety is very also yet balances is the key word and I think we need to remember that that's why it's it's dangerous in your to bring this up in mixed company or whatever from a gospel perspective. Just remember that.

So if you're in a conversation and all you put on the table is one part you're out of balance right so I think my point earlier was, I think we need to go out of our way to makes are we round out the message trying to help people trying to be accurate from a biblical perspective but trying to help people and engage them in a conversation in such a way that the girl is to absent a random job that I run around looking for the approval of man's rights but I think we can be strategically keep talking about anxiety and depression. What we do from a Christian perspective. What about counseling, what about medication.

What about what about this Coca-Cola with coffee zero sugar thing that I think I'm the only person that likes everything, so I thought that I gave him. He will be right back a passage at a wrong turn could mean a secular song Chris Martin Michael Nicole plaintiff Chris Martin is interesting. This is where from all my fundamental list), you okay go play secular Chris Martin not a born-again Christian, Lena, but when you this is what's interesting when you listen to Coldplay music help make references because he grew up Catholic. He'll make references to God in angelic things in biblical yeah because he can't help himself because his main image of God, yeah. So what I like to do with secular music is all listen to it under this with movies to know Mike, I'm I'm in a hear or see the image of God shall appear the amount of day. Even though these folks don't even know you but I know where that comes from because it's always good to be something good or beautiful and I'm to glorify God even in the midst of them, not what I recognize to me that the fascinating saddest lines. Chris Martin is for some reason, I can explain.

I know Satan call my name innocent like basically how it sets and imagine what the song is not yet wow that's powerful talk about mental health suicide and will talk about cremation today before we finish the show patch at Harvey here on theology Thursday cross assembly in Raleigh. How was Easter crosses an excellent had a great time.

Celebrate Jesus. It was wonderful, wonderful, wonderful and and there's a few people that wear masks.

We were there a few people were yeah yeah my mom is with us.

She's to be 90 in September. She wore masculine romance where man might think my thing from day one is I'm not your nanny in the country would do if you want to wear a mask where mass but I don't. I told off air that our biggest negative reviews.

We get our people said they don't wear mask is not theology is that he preaches heresy. It's not the music student lengths. The mass mask yet and so were living in a spirit of fear, that's only gotten worse with COBIT. That's why I started the show, talking about all these increased numbers for mental health problem. So as Christians do do we acknowledge the existence of mental health problem, just like we acknowledge the existence of physical health problem. Just say okay you have you have diabetes because you lack faith. Some people might say we don't say that. So we acknowledge that it's a real problem when you think about getting counseling gifts would it look, here's not from you, but there's that.

I will say this up front, not about who scissor Christian counselors Christian counselors just because they have that under sink, we need to because starting in and check that out you. The Bible talks about the spiritual gift of Word of wisdom. I think Christian counselors basically had been given by God.

This gift of Word of wisdom and so on.

Counseling if you want but supportive wisdom. I do think cycle is the psychology suitcase sold the start of your soul.

I think the Bible is the best book on the soul. And so that's why meant I like that counseling accountant is rooted in Scripture. Just be really careful not every Christian counselor is a Christian goes right, exactly, is a great point and there's wisdom in the multitude of counselors and in the first time I ever step foot in a Christian counselors office that Jean and I went for something.

This was years ago just got a little blip on the radar screen removes the significant of the time but I was, hard, hardhearted towards counseling and then went in and sought counsel good godly wisdom of Word of wisdom. I think it's a great way looking at it and when I walked out after an hour I was dumbfounded shocks by how helpful and yes you have another Christian with an outside perspective, steeped in a theological worldview plus training of the science behind it and it was immensely helpful and I was like okay I get you a little crab due city a few years ago when he sees a Christian counselor but he said for them.

Majority the proms were dealing with in the church unit of a good, caring, small group is more effective than actually the Christian counselor will want to suspended our energized year pay hundred dollars.

Your problem solved. I think we need to invest in authentic Christian community as will the end of that's over because there's a multitude of counselors never so well right medication. You antidepressants anxiety medication because unless your Christian scientists, which I don't think you are, we can look at that and go well in my somehow lacking faith because I take Advil because I took Pepto-Bismol or because I take a medication for well there's pollen everywhere right now you know I mean you felt you what you think about drugs for medication for anxiety balance.

I had a lady come speak to a women's group years ago, my church and she bases scripting legs. I was doing depression. At one time. Here's a she said. I would recommend all of you guys going antidepressants is war right now these people you know another background I don't know the going there.

You can't that's an unhealthy extreme. I want to Gordon Connell seminary took some classes there account number. The professor, but there was a manifest of the gave his testimony and he said for years she demeaned cranky person. Nobody wanted to be around him and he said after years and years. This is why should I can't do this. You go to the doctor when the doctor found that he a perpetually low blood sugar. The put in a perpetually bad mood got a medication and within days as whole personality. Jost and so I do think that there are situations like that is will and part of the fall yeah that's true. Physically we we are fallen mentally, emotionally spiritual, where you were falling, and then what how do we factor faith and all of this because I know we talked about this earlier and I think sometimes it and because they what the church thinks this in the church that you if it's an unbeliever.

I know there can come up with any scheme that they can any position that they can to get rid of the church and basically science God because I don't want to be judged because I know my deeds are dark. That's the law is written on the heart. Paul me that obvious eternity put in the heart of man Ecclesiastes. So every there's no such thing as a godly Interpol root gorilla in the room and nobody knows. So I know that but then if they're a believer you okay not go to work I can work within the confines of its speak our spiritual nature and the teaching of God's word. So how does our faith factor into dealing with anxiety, depression, gifts, child.

I believe this I think that faith in God and confidence in God and getting in the word of God will allow you to hear the voice of God and God's voice may say at times Google medication you faith opens the door for me to hear the voice of God and sometimes God rose going medication and look down from, Pentecostal background there's the word of faith movement big in Pentecostalism. And here's nothing on that becomes a sickness word of faith works it works and it's great but it some point it is going to fill you and it's messy. I've had to pick up the pieces of geysers. I have the faith I named it I claimed I spoke against the disease. I spoke against cancer. I've had conversations with the saddest conversations I had went I was with the word faith leader who was dying of a terminal disease and he said how to save this to my congregation knock will be will and I been preaching for years. If you have enough faith, you won't get sick is very very sad when it works it works. But when it doesn't.

It's messy. Yes, really messy and so I've been back to your word balance, which I think is the operable word here II think that all these options that were talking about her on the table. We need wisdom you need counsel you need prayer. And if you're not walking with the Lord your EC a good counselor your medication but if you're not walking that with the Lord.

If you're not pursuing him. You're necessarily knocking out one of the legs on the table.

I had to write a good bit of the skin at there's a reason why this next-generation is doing some of these issues again. I'm not saying it's all spiritual, but there's a quote that is attributed to GK Chesterton sums that he didn't say it but listen to this meaningless meaninglessness does not come from being weary of pain. Meaninglessness comes from being weary of pleasure, we have produced a meaningless generation that has everything that they want online, they got all the porn they want, they can do whatever they want and sin makes you feel bad and I'm just saying I don't know what percentage is but a high percentage of this anxiety unit is interesting that there are now connecting social anxiety with porn use that guys who view porn have a much higher incidence of social anxiety and that interest you start a beer from God's word. It does have a manifestation just God's way works every time a stride. It might not work immediately, but it always always works what he does give us counselors. He gives us intelligence, creativity is a lot of ways that God can touch your life, but faith is always got a component of it will come back we'll talk about suicide how we deal with that inside the church and eventually talk about good old mania. He is a man I love about Johnny Cash just like having a movie yeah wanting to listen to this that everyone is willing to remind me.

Writer everything kickers and it is not a Christian continue that creation which I'm like okay what you want me to go to the list of sins, and I'm still struggling of flesh is flesh, and is not like my flesh is will be more sanctified than your flesh is flesh is flesh unbelievable talking about the Chad Harvey today. I did want to mention that this was on Facebook like Ursula said this. Please tell pastor chats over doing this right now. Ursula I love driving by those crosses you every day. It looks like the three of them come together as one. The closer you get to them while while my heart IMO Jesus I know is your favorite emoji.

Why do you somehow solidus three giant line that I don't want 2525 noted early on, 30, 35 feet. I told you the story that we had a minute we had a church growth control and were fixing it building up his whatever you do crosses up there turns people off is to just what I about 330 foot cross. If anybody objects no, no it for every euro of noxious weed identity with actor head truckers. I'm not making this up, pull over to our church because it's in those crosses. I am afraid we have pastor grandpa and enemies that he also immigrated it has happened. Fly your symbol, put a percent had a sinking shot. You don't don't hide from it.

That was one of the things I do buddy that used to be Steve Wiggins, who is the head guy at big tent revival member that could have been late 80s early 90s and then he went on the worship staff at Willow Creek, the birthplace of the seeker sensitive movement which I can't throw Willow Creek completely on the bus because I got say you will okay so that's that God can bring some good stuff out of that one were messing it up.

Lisa, one of the reasons he left the worship team was that it at Willow Creek and this is not just Willow Creek. A lot of churches are going this direction. The Bible became a source as opposed to the source you in as we talk about this subject.

Today we're talking about anxiety, depression, mental illness were to talk about suicide again that the Bible needs to be the source of truth yeah okay so when I look in the sciences. When I look at psychology. When I look at psychiatry, where I see it working.

One night when I see things there that make sense. Usually I can trace it back to something that the Bible is God. Okay, that's just what science science is just the revelation of the genius of God. That's what sciences do you which is why it should be pretty cool to look at a telescope and microscope yeah is all your call. You're looking at is what got stuff. Yeah okay is pretty awesome, but when it comes to suicide this the tough subject. The Catholic churches has done some a lot of damage on this one and I think a lot of people whether Catholic or not struggle with the notion suicide. So how do we how we approach it from a biblical perspective. So just say right off Steve suicide is incredibly serious. Don't do it.

If you're contemplating it, thinking it don't do it because suicide was hot self murder. Yeah it's self murder and first John 315 says no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. So this is very very very serious. Don't do it. I have a friend who had a friend fairly recently. He was probably the most sold out Christians I've ever met attorney going on. Children killed himself in his full-time ministry killed himself. No murderer has eternal life abiding him best self motors. Here's the key question is that person's last act prove that they had never trusted in Jesus Christ. For some, the answer is yes. I mean look that the Bible says that we children of God are defined by hope that's repeated right people to hope hope hope hope hope so. There are some people who committed suicide because they never were true believers. I do believe that there are some Christians who, in a moment of depression, a moment of stupidity moment of extreme duress make this decision. Yeah, and you cannot define their salvation by that very last at the that they commit yes. Does that make sense yeah yeah so I would say on one hand, this is very serious.

This is self murder and the Bible speaks against that. On the other hand, I don't want to be defined generally do want to be defined by one act of Elgin.

No kidding. If Esme for that matter.

Last right is the last act of your natural life on earth yeah I will say this to.

I think that sometimes not all it but I think sometimes there is a demonic element to that because if you look at the three suicides in the Bible there was demonic stuff involved in each one of Judah's committed suicide route after said Satan entered him. Saul committed suicide right after going to which you Sam's committed suicide in the temple of Dagon which is a demonic temple.

So I think many times are the demonic illness will yeah and it's it's it's a touchy subject but from a salvific perspective. Yeah, I mean, I can say that about dying and in sin of any kind, you does it does it prove because you never were 100% repentant about everything right you were to believe or know and I'll set to be very careful and I'm not the judge of any man's heart. You, but it I appreciate you saying that it's very, very serious, yes, yes, your John Piper is a great analogy.

He said to listen my wife and I get the fight. I am sinfully angry at her. I leave the house. I slammed the door. I get my car I take off. I am still sinfully angry as I'm barreling down the road. I don't navigator curve right and I went into a telephone want to kill myself.

I died in sin, you're right.

I'm still a believer but I I died in that scene again. For some people. Suicide is the same way you made a really bad decision there. Some Christians look we had a whole rash of patchwork of years ago. Well always young children well lit and on the show. I had to look it up this Friday. Three years ago made three or two or three years ago I had to widows on at the same time both pastor's wife while and they met through the news and stuff.

One was in Florida. One was in California and they said that their husbands back to our original topic for years had struggle with the press you you and but they couldn't bring it up in the church as we put you guys on a pedestal right and and they don't want to betray that there actually fallen human being like the rest of us and so they isolate you and that and they're not talking you and you got all that pressure and so, though think they literally I think within months of one another each other's life while while but the other was a rash of that. It was crazy. Yeah so but still it somehow say this, some of the idea of no if you commit suicide immediately go to hell is because you have a chance to repent rate implied and that is I have repent of everything resend. You haven't times in our role as I'm doing it so that if you don't understand the concept of grace of God forgive us our sin, past, present, future. But you believe you have to confess every sin and academic suicide to shoot myself and I have a chance, could you have a skewed view of salvation, then you know that was the Catholic Church playing that game and the different types of sins mortise and venison and then then you get Martin Luther who is literally beating himself. Yeah, Lee's prostate front of a an altar and whips himself trying to remember every single sin having a prostrate think you get no and so but literally because if I don't remember every single sin of yeah I'm not I'm not that's a skewed view of salvation then also is like anything great. Yet what settlement you do you find that people in the church that it had a family member or loved one friend commit suicide that they struggle and how to process that they do they read that that's on-site it's it's you're looking this way it's a very selfish act it. The damage is horrendous and that's why again I want to go back to what I've said this is not like cancer or Alzheimer's that departure it.

It turns it really turns before loop and so I'm just yeah yeah it's it's wreckage right left the up down all of you and it is ultimately incredibly selfish getting skinny Christian commit suicide yes but is a very very rare occurrence. I think if you were truly walk with the Lord Jesus Christ. Over time you can process these issues, but I do Christian commit suicide yes and hope is the name of the game he preached on that Sunday, but that what were the things with us and think is awake for the fight and then we even any talk about this to because were to talk about cremation in the final segment preaching the funeral of a believer versus an unbeliever in a believer's funeral as we don't agree with those who have no hope. That's is what I would say one of the fellow believer.Mike Manor out here you like yeah you got it called my ticket.

I get to go. I get in the Disney or whatever you I'm outta here you not wait anymore. There earlier you to be absent of the bodies we present with the Lord you and so but but it must be very difficult to preach the funeral of a number. What's difficult is family members were Ms. Bridgman, heaven, and I refuse to do that. He was reprobate. He was a drug addict, Gilby Bhushan most of his life in prison. He died with no fruit in his life, but I remember he was seven years old.

He was the house he was saved and surpassed Unita. I'm not preaching when they have and I'll talk about God is good God is gracious God is a loving God, but I refuse to preach people.

How does that go over, you know, I think I'm able to to why, despite you. You think I just maybe say off-the-wall things whatever I'm able to smooth things over, wrapped in a nice enough way that I think it does smooth ruffled feathers and I forget them forever. Discussed burning in hell right now met you that but I just think that what we do in a situation like that is, we just talk about the goodness of God, the love of God, all that kind of stuff but man when it's a safe person call me. I'm just telling you it's a world of difference to help me out.

It's a hard thing and I think to do as a pastor is to preach a funeral philosophers so yeah because that's it's talk about depression versus celebration absolutely talk about cremation in the final segment, which are coming up but how often do you have to have a conversation with a family of somebody that's passed about cremation versus. You know they they don't asked my opinion to go ahead and do it and so I don't really get a chance play a role that think I've preaches enough talk about enough where people know where I stand on this and a balancing mail.

Probably 75 similar funerals I do on cremation well set a virus and have you in x-rays and hold your cards close to your chest will find how you feel about that when we come back a message at Harvey in theology Thursday to talk about depression, anxiety, suicidality to talk about cremation versus burial. For Vern it is my softly clear affect no way for 12 you don't have her to start you on your right across rock 'n' roll and rig love the mighty mighty Boston who are really big is gone. I could even get that when this might be better.

I look back at Steve Noble to Steve Noble shall theology Thursday today with her good friend passage at Harvey Cross assembly here in Raleigh and I was asking you because I never finish this. We're talking up there because of somebody that's been coming to that the church recently was just appreciative of your unabashedly telling the truth and being bold and I asked you when you first got in the pulpit held re-20 and ended God just make it that way or did you have to kill learning and it took me 1015 years to find my footing coming to you is that 10,000 hour rule. Whatever it is. Malcolm Gladwell really took a long time yet and I'm still not where I need to be not merely listen to Truth Network as much as I want to get a start list of these guys a white man like an average like the dog out listener to get blessed.

I start feel bad about how I'm preaching right off so but in terms of boldness yeah no I never as you and I met. I think in 2006 is been a while and you and your bold then but you would bend that was RFA at the time, you and II asked you because when you first went there when you bring in a really bold pastor that's gonna ruffle some feathers still doesn't show you but at the time in the night and then I said, while acid is good you know how I wanted to take you before you really felt like you had this great relationship with church and said it was about three years and I said how did you know that it change you said the church started defending me.

I jump my deacons started saying how you can tell him he's our pastor. Mission accomplished.

Yeah, that's pretty cool what he thinks of any pastor struggle with being bold going to talk about chew on that right that's your question is untrue to quit doing it on time you write cremation.

How do we approach this, because unfortunately I think most of us don't think much about it at all.

We go it's a financial decision saw cheaper to burn the Barry I did all this research and then I got three minutes of images I want to run a greatly single female whiner impulse important point, someone cremation is not a sin is number one. Number two.

This issue is not worth dividing over. Don't divide it with Christians over that.

Ever. Three cremated Christian still go to heaven.

This is just a really good heaven work. The body breaks down withers cremated or decomposes I get it.

People tell me all the time. Yeah, but you can decompose. I have a cursory knowledge of the second law of thermodynamics and know things start to break down.

I get it.

One day God will raise up our bodies would be cremated or not but here's my problem with cremation one it's roots are in paganism of the first first cremation American took place in 1876, accompanied by readings from Charles Darwin and the Hindu scriptures, Charlemagne while all pay cremation in the Holy Roman Empire because it was a word originated with paganism.

So what is number one is rooted in paganism. Number two. It lowers the dignity of the human body. Okay Hindu's Gnostics. I have a low view of the material world man. The Bible elevates the human body.

The word became what/God became flesh you deposited your body is a temple. The Holy Spirit this idea of it's just a body that's not biblical. So second reason I have, have we cremation it lowers the dignity of human body. Number three the biblical norm is burial not cremation. Abraham bought land for sure is burial a Genesis 23 first lamp take general first land in the territory God promised Abraham was a burial spot when Abraham died he was. Isaac died. He was buried, Jacob, Joseph, promised to bury him in the promised land.

Joseph told the people carried bones out of Egypt very me when Moses died, God buried him.

Jesus died, Nicodemus, Joseph Dorothea went to great personal risk to bury him, Stephen died. He was buried. That's the biblical norm. So God number one, it's rooted in paganism.

Number two. It lowers the dignity of human body. Number three the biblical norm is burial, not cremation. Number four burning bodies in the Bible is a sign of shame. Did you know that I did not get God judge Moab because they burned the bones of the king of Edom in Amos chapter wrote to verse one for two glasses you burned this guy you desecrated his body. I'm condemning you for that ache in his household when he was called what to do.

They stone him in the burn him to refuse any kind of internment or to burn a body is desecration in the Old Testament and the number five the Christian burial is highly symbolic pulses. Look, it's like a seed you plant the seeds in the ground and you back. This would Doug Wilson says all of this. Doug Wilson says a cemetery is a grave garden and the tombstones are the states with its upside down seed packets on them going is what kind of seed is buried in the ground.

What complaint will come up with an a good man. That's really, you know that there's another biblical symbol of sleep you know that we gently lay our loved ones in the ground. We don't believe in soul sleep, but on but the early church, viewed as your body being gently lay down on the ground sleeping not passing through the fire element that has the pause button right quick as you said soul sleep and I'm assuming to go out on a limb here and assume there's some people that don't know what were talking up for consistent social sleep is on this idea and I think the Seventh-day Adventists have this. I think that when you die your body and your soul going to the ground in your body and soul stay there in the ground sleeping until the day of judgment and got to wake you up and biblically to be absent from the body is to be what present with the Lord and soak their passages after passage that make it very clear that when my body dies my soul my spirit was to be with the Lord Jesus Christ and that bodies gently laid the ground what our weekly meeting or burying more today for the first time in US history.

We are now premeeting more than Barry. I think it's like 60, 70% is not just a financial thing. A lot of it is rooted in finances and I told off air, stealing, look traditional funeral costs eight to $10,000. There are ways around that cremation.

What $1500. So there's a financial do you, I believe you're part of a church you're part of the body of Christ that church need to be willing to step in and help pay for your burial. That's what the body of Christ is done for years.

I you all the time to look if you can't afford a Christian burial. One is a traditional barrel.

It's a Christian burial. If you can't afford that. We will help you is not to be a New Orleans style bread if you like with fresh horse drawn carriage in the band but we will help you with them, but it's most of that is driven by finances and then end understandable and never knocking out when I can make this a healthy diet know but again when when I first learned about this with one of my ethics professors out of Southeastern Baptist seminary work in my Masters degree. I was like I've never thought about this before you mean I was when I first acting classes. There is 35 whenever my inner thought about this before and then understanding that there is value in the human body.

Yes, Chuck Colson said is was this our worldview determines how we live and our worldview even determines how we treat our dead. I think if you have a biblical Christian worldview, where in the Old Testament it was a sign of condemnation to burn people to cause you pass the fire but no in the New Testament and the guilt as we see God's people gently, lovingly letting the people in the ground if that's your biblical worldview. I don't think you can cremate now again got a lot of listeners that have as much to be cremated. I guess we can cremate you not listen. But if the treatment of their loved ones.

If they're born again. They're going to heaven you'll see them gossamer store their body. Don't worry about it, but I'm just saying this is not just a flippant thing to decide you finances you should lean in this direction and understanding biblically rights right on about that. That's one of the things about it where you know obviously when the death of a loved one or friend or whatever.

It's always a difficult conversation time but we should always be willing to bend the knee to what does the Bible's egg right as God's opinion on NCOs is will him death is a horrible time to try to make long-term decisions big decisions. I would encourage you and your family. I'll be thinking about this thing. Now I know that sounds morbid. We don't like to talk about death or the angel of the Middle Ages. The people use to sign documents with this term memento mori that was of that was a term that was thrown around. Remember, death in the Middle Ages. They appreciated lie a lot more because they said, remember that this coming Is coming so just be ready you an end in terms of the value human body. I think I think you talked about this from the pulpit, not that long ago when you look at the animals versus humankind. God gets down into the muck and using the dust of the earth forms the human you personally yet intimately of physically forms the human body and then breathed the breath of life. You feel he did not do that with your Right even do that with Sparky the dog.

He didn't do it with Simba you didn't do it with the giraffe fish or anybody else know another, nothing in the animal kingdom, but with human beings.

He did, he did and that matter that matters in the fact that you talk about one of the fundamentals of the faith is the bodily resurrection of the dead people think.

Okay, that means you believe Jesus rose bodily from the grave. We do believe that the doctrine of the bodily resurrection of the dead is this note, every body one day will be raised back up and so that in itself creation and then at the end of the store. The fact that the bodies be raised back up tells me got put high value on the body is not so hard that one pastor was a diffusional time of the gods. Big jokester in the church and he said this is just the shield and that is going to heaven by Lavan's fun, whatever, but is not just a shell that is right.

Actually, that there's some underplayed yeah yeah it's a great point and that that's like like in the in the abortion arena when were out of trach circle. Whatever outside the abortion clinic pray and worship and intercede in the past and I and I the repent of this couple years ago when people say hey listen, who knows how many times we've killed the cure to cancer.

We've killed the person to do this or kill the person's gonna do that. Okay so do we just tie the value and accomplish great point. Whether you're smart or dumb beautiful or ugly, tall or short. Big had a heron here at all. Whatever the case may be, your value simply resides in the fact that you made.I love your Billy Graham used to say visit everyone this Crusades. God loves you so much. If you have been the only person who ever been born so he is still to come down and die for you and I want to cure cancer or not. That's right that you are human being created in the image of God.

That's right.

And the fact that he bent down the mock Delta South shows you what you do do that for the pulpit and and I was like I never really thought of in and I already understood the incident relationship God and people, and it took us all another level that I can think of him rapping yeah and special way not to represent calendar, but it didn't mean something when David needed me all inside my mother's grandma hands and got a lot of that's Jedi recross assembly. Eleanor always made things very well okay print will be back tomorrow get a lot of new things to cover positive talk to a reporter that works up the White House believer read an interesting conversation with Ms. sack.

Talk about that tomorrow as well. Always it is another program powered by the Truth Network

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