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June 13, 2020 8:00 am
Welcome fellow adventurers, to Masculine Journey After Hours! On this episode, the band of brothers continue their discussion from Masculine Journey about guilt. The clip used this week comes from the film "The Breakfast Club."
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Robbie said Rodney since & Jim said we got all kinds of sin to go around. But the thing clear to me that you know we offer. I often pose thinking that I don't have anything really but I'm feeling all that guilty about but really cool. The clip that you got force Rodney, can you kindest set this up because here's people that were really close in high school wise and found themselves together right and I can definitely relate with this character. As far as the pose goes and having it all together.
This is from breakfast club and of course everybody seemed breakfast right Robbie, etc. so dear and breakfast club you got five teenagers, all from supposedly yield different backgrounds in their school life in their family life and they're just different. You got the nerd. Yet the pretty girl, yet the athlete you got the degenerate, kinda kid is a rebel and you got is just as weird girl who no credit figure out so yet. Yet this weird bunch brought together because of detention. They all did something to get themselves into detention and what the form throughout, this is a real bond, like what we would have in the brotherhood. They've got this brother and sister thing going that there all reveling in coming together because their parents are horrible. That's kind of the main female come derived L rally around this fact that their parents made them into this horrible thing whatever in their carrying guilt, shame, blame in the comes out in all the stories and the one were going to pick up here on is sitting around in a circle talking and by this time it's moved on a little bit movie and I think you're really getting to know each other pretty good and target little more open and sharing in the athlete who the hell he's got it all together. What is he got. He's the one that says no were all little bizarre here so then it progresses what you gotten so bizarre and then we can get into this clip. I take a last response to house you know Harry trying when they pulled the tape off most of his hair came off skin to bizarre thing is different. How man tortured this poor kid because I want him to think that was cool so is going off when he was in school allow things he's feeling that he was disappointed. I never cut loose some of sit in the locker room and tape my knee and Larry's undressing couple blocks down for me and he's kind skinny. We started thinking about my father's attitude about weakness fixing a new jump on top and started wailing on my friend just laughed and cheered me on afterwards sit in Vern's office. All I could think about was Larry's father and explain what happened really real and he apologize that is no way because of think this is mindless machine and I can even relate to anymore. Andrew is in this family while so you have the kid who looks like we would go in the most schools. Most of our past, more schools, but oh well you know those kids got it all together and everything's going home. Things are fine at school. He's the star wrestler you know what's there to be so bummed out about he's got everything right but one of things, God gave me during this was we all have guilt and we all want to get rid of guilt. So what I saw in this clip was that dad is willing to get rid of his guilt from whatever it probably chain that he has from hearing back from all the things he did in this high school and was projecting it onto his son and saying hey you know you kinda need to be this you need to be number one just putting a lot of things on talking jokingly about all area ways to cut up and do these things all these kids and adjust now you as a son near the star wrestler is feeling this guilt like a man I'm I gotta be what my dad wants me to be.
So he's getting fathered poorly. You're right. So, but given that father figure is so important to us men and try to get printed. You know, and son Shapiro trying to yell commune with our dad chronicling with other boys and it's it's it's hard.
You don't know where to go with this in IQ heard and there all his friends all they did when he started doing the wrong thing is kind Egmont thought it was great. You know, because they're the same boat as he is. So he's he's got this guilt and then all of a sudden he feels really guilty for all of the right for the right reason for the right thing afterwards when he said in the principal's office and think about Larry going home have to tell his dad what happened to how humiliating and how dare apologize for something like that. Now he's in a position where G do I go apologize, but do the right thing do I not what would my dad do it or break this agreement break this bond and go this way or do I say no I'm not strong enough.
I'm really weak and I avoid it because what he's been avoiding is the opportunity to be forgiven and the grace it comes a forgiven a great feeling on forgiveness that you get to accept from somebody else is huge for your own freedom in your own heart and to enter into that is risky, but that's where he would need to go at this time for me. You know were talking about near Robbie site today like painful. This is where I went and found out where my guilt is that where you guys gotten for me.
One of the big things in parenting his you mean how do you not have guilt, you do something dumb things.
But for me it was anger and odd man out bile that sucker up nice and tight until the court will right so the next thing you know I've got my son this is just one episode I'd only time I threw them but I got them up. I've got a molding because something was going on that day and not even mad at the boy not I'm not mad at him at all and I like what what he did was not a good deal but mad adding Jan Adam and I threw him across room onto the couch by scared the living crap out of that was. I wore my golf line to you know and I knew he was going to the couch. I know, kinda like if it was I mad everything up. I love it that emotion. I can only match what I did to him. At that point in that time, yellowing thing is I'm I'm loved ask Anita asking if he remembers that despite five or six meals small house pink I could throw them really hard and really far, so ending to it know you just I think it was I when even mad at them. So it's one of those times were out of many. I've had apologize to my kids say man on the why did that but I did and try to take some responsibility for that.
Although I would project guilt and other places. You know all but daddy was this or that. Now in like I think back on those times when only house lots of times when you just kinda you took on some of that guilt within you also want to project into some else only habit it's also my dad here because he treated me really bad thing when you first started talking Rodney you you said that there were two things. One was that we all have guilt and the other was that we all want to get rid of it. That may not be true. A lot of people don't want to get rid of their guilt because they love themselves.
They hate themselves so much they feel like they have to hang onto the guilt because they deserve the guilt, and so you can tell them theologically all day long will know Jesus forgave you. You know even the person that they may have hurt may forgive them but they hold onto the guilt and it it it that's false guilt that's toxic guilt. Guilt is a wonderful motivator and I mean you you know this.
I know that I'm just trying to put myself in the position of of some of our listeners, and even myself through much of my life there. There are things that we do that we feel like I don't deserve to be forgiven of that. I know God forgave me. But I don't deserve to be forgiven. I live in it to yeah coming. We all do to a certain extent and in rather get rid of it affected and when you said you were all guilty and we all want to be free. I think the third part of that is God wants us to be free, so much so that he created a guilt offering a guilt sacrifice and Jesus becomes that guilt, sacrifice, and he tells us all through the New Testament that he setting us free from a guilty conscience. He knows that our conscience can be a horrible taskmaster master, it can also be a great motivator and a master fan and a master they can be a masquerade as well.
Canted mass on her offer.
Yeah, I can be a masquerade or and so that whole issue of of guilt and what it's producing in your life is really what the show was about an you know were probably in need about four more shows on this, but the thing that that really hurts me at times is the longer I lived in the guilt, the worse it was for those who lived around me who lived with me who lived under my rule under under you know maybe they worked for me or whatever but the more I lived in the guilt and refused to allow Jesus sacrifice to be enough refused to allow the other person's forgiveness to be enough.
The worst that gets because it becomes resentment.
Sam talked about that before the show that Sam is that is that, what you were talking about when it when you said it either becomes resentment or it becomes and I can't remember the other thing that you said he may have it on mute. Now he's done that before point as it only when I'm talking now. I mean I really I think Sam needs to feel really guilty here as I'm start. I felt really bad. Sam here. Okay, we may want to call Sam back.
It's it's possible that we've lost it. It is possible technology. But since we got handy you and sure what to. I don't remember the other one like I get that thing out here.
It's great to have difficult before the show. Then you hear things to make sure.
I think you live the way like that around a campfire Coke in the you hear things start thinking about your life, your life and I mean that I don't know that I've dealt delved into some of these issues as much thinking about all I know was it was you John.
John Eldridge wrote a book and a relief of holiness and I think there's just a lot to whenever you get you been under guilt for so long that when you get freedom probably can't. If constantly there, but it's not to the level of the got victory thing that didn't and I struggle with per year, and it just brings all enjoyed.
You just don't realize. But I still like all the guys there. There thing that come up that guilty about not doing enough. You know how blessed I am about other parts of the world are not whatever they may or the Scriptures. I want to read a little bit. I used to go to when I was struggle reluctant among a multitude of other things. The stock could be worn after David's failure and it little down into that but I just want to read it because you know it's me, what were talking about just God that wants to stay in deal arguing with get that. But I shall be clean wash mean our sheep shall be whiter than snow make me make me to hear joy and gladness that the bone that is broken they were truly high death rates but marked them and blot out all my iniquities created me a clean heart of God, and renew a right spirit within me, cast me not away from my present take not thy Holy Spirit from me, restored me the joy of acceleration and uphold me with your then I will teach transgressors by way and sinners shall be converted, that last line that's not possible if we haven't really dealt with you about teaching print in the way we don't have that that second line spoke to me make make me to hear joy and gladness that God that's what that's trying to leave somebody blinking like that because he kept Andy off right that Sam back that you know I hate that because Andy was on a roll yeah and that was to leave the house phone on Thursday should be good to guilty about IA. Okay, I do want to speak real quickly to the issue that is just as I was listening I was thinking that there's this old story about a Christian that was taking his friend that was a non-Christian out duck hunting in you know he made a shot missed the dock got real upset started cursing through shotgun down and then he got down on his knees and prayed God's can't believe that I'm that you know that I know you and I'm still struggling with this in at an he was, you know, very lamenting and feeling guilty and is praying to God all the stuff and so the atheist is there with them since he that's probably a Christian's unity.
I'm happy as I can. Baby is all have to deal that he's been around some guy right. He is like. I'm fine. I look at you you're over there struggling right and so about this time another bunch of ducks backslide over and shoot and this in a duck, falls down and it's flopping on the ground and he says you know there's two ducks that actually fell on was deadly and there still in the other was still flopping around because we see the difference between the two ducks.
There, the one that saliva still struggling good and bad when you think about the paint your wagon clip right you got you got Ben Ronson, who clearly was not struggling and in the other two characters were.
But now that we got Sam back only got handy back we got Sam back. We got Andy not okay this this should work out so were still working on it were still working on Sam so we are well. So as we were talking before the show in the God deals with this, either one. Robbie asked the question of all of us. So whatever you struggling with in that realm of guilt have you gone and pursued conversational intimacy with God. Have you said God what am I struggling with from guilt or maybe you already know and and whatever that thing is have you asked God why am I still struggling with that. One of my missing and that's what Robbie did and God brought up well you you're still struggling with this contract. You know with Scientology that legalistic Lee was broke through Jesus blood but emotionally was still struggle is still causing Robbie to struggle well for me it was more of a passive thing I struggled like Rodney talk. I struggle with so many things that the list is so long we could do seven shows on it. However, the thing that I probably struggle with the most is parenting as a Christian as a pastor most of my children's lives.
I struggled with a lot of things. Anger was one of them, but at different times during that as a pastor I also struggled with an addiction to pornography and that the thing that killed me still to this day hurts. At times, is that when you as the father as the husband as the head of the household. When you voluntarily allow Satan, his demons over sexual sin into the house. You are also exposing your wife, your bedroom, your exposing your children, your exposing everybody in the house and and all of the other brothers and sisters that come into the house for a Bible study or anything else you're exposing them to that in the worst counselor that I ever had told me that and I hated him for it. I went to seem at a time when I was really broken and he said look, I know more about your situation than you do and he he was a horrible counselor because he was an arrogant jerk. Not because he wasn't telling me the truth. He told me the truth.
Look Darren you let those demons in your mad because your wife had an affair whose fault is that you're the one that let the sexual demons in the house you're mad because your daughter struggling with this for your son struggling with that. Whose fault is that and he was very blunt with it as the leader of the house as the Christian leader that your fault and so you're going to have to take responsibility for it. You're going to have to pray those things away. Juergen have to use Jesus authority and take authority over that realm again and cast those things away, not by your power, but by Jesus. Power. I like that. I hated that. But it was true and the thing that I struggled with forever, was every time my kids would struggle with something or tell me about a struggle. They were having that I didn't know about it would hit me. Will that your fault you missed it you should have been devoted to their spiritual growth. You should have been devoted to this review should have been devoted to that Jim's talk to us about shooting ourselves. You should have been doing all these other things but you were sold out to your sin, and so Satan continually reminds me of that will that's not nearly as powerful anymore as it as it once was and many days it has zero power and God passively over the last week or two allowed me to have some conversations with both of my children, but more specifically with my daughter to the point where we were able to talk about that very vividly very bluntly about that and I was able to ask for her forgiveness and she offered it and we talked as adults. She's 35 years old now and we talked as adults and in walked through that and both of us got a ton of healing from that that I didn't even know that I needed by frankly and so the reason I bring that up is yeah it may be through conversational intimacy and I want to suggest that as the first priority go to God and say hey God, what am I struggling with in this realm of guilt. What am I missing because that's a way better thing than sitting around on your tail end like I did and allowing God to passively do it through a conversation with my children. It may be that God wants you to be passive in some of these things and wait until it's a good time for that other person in your relationship, but more often than not, it's a really good thing to go to God first and say okay God what am I missing what it one of my not getting hold of.
We actually have Sam paired Jim. But if you got some go ahead well.
Based on that, I was listening that in every one of us with children pointed out that a lot of our guilt revolves around our children and all my children in their 40s now and I look back at all the mistakes I made and yet I can look at my children. I'm so proud of the men they God made up for all of my screw ups, and that's part of the forgiveness to he's gonna you. Even if your children either this terrible.
I can imagine how living a child. But even if you had a child that died even at their own hands. God is going to take care of that. It's not your mistakes, the production of that place so Sam are you are a witness by him all wonderful well. Earlier, Darren had a question for you, me, and I would not on. You have also eight years. I'm sorry I feel so guilty you should feel guilty that I claim on you know what you're talking about was lead to shame. Obviously internally but also bitterness toward others right in our bitterness toward yourself. Start God. You know there's lots of places it go but it usually ends up in one of the answer. An odd combination about often. You know, guilt comes with that's senses feeling worthless and hopeless feeling that I know helpless in you know when people try to reach out to us and try to minimize our guilt to try to go down the road we often know lash out saying you don't know me you don't know what I've done and I think we see a lot of that and we have to keep in mind that no one not worthless where were were sons and daughters of the King of Kings and were not helpless. We have Christ Adam fireside in these things when you when you really take these things to God and go through the confession say hey you know I sent. I know it now help me through these things.
I think that there's a lot of healing that comes in that how we we we talk about no pornography in ion line at any man that hasn't had that struggle are dealt with at some time in his life, and a lot of lied about gets her to a meeting for for me. I learned how to play guitar out of my running away from sin and that portion now, I gotta be a really good get you would say here but yet they do you know that for me.
You know that the pornography at one point, my life was you know it. It was wrecking the marriage I was and it was wrecking everything around me and I was alone one afternoon and we had bought my son a guitar that it set in the corner for almost 3 years and how kids are.
And I one know if I can learn how to play that now. I still end up going to the Internet that day, but I had a different agenda and what I think it really gives you an opportunity to speak to some guys been showing me which is really the uncle that he make. I don't know if you knew this but his name in Hebrew means initiated while and so unique, walked with God and he was no more. In other words, this guy got initiated the point like that. You're getting promoted and interestingly, when you study that word walked in Hebrew. It ends with a letter called the cuff, which is the crown that comes down the Hebrew sages teach. This is critical that a crown for them is like a supernatural power. Okay so you it's above intellect and they say that it's that it's based on desire.
So if you have a desire like to play the guitar. It's a supernatural power that will drive your intellect. So if if you have this desire to deal with your guilt, your intellect if you desire strong enough, God will provide you any initiation to help you escape of of walking with God through that which is exactly what he is looking forward to a beautiful picture right there in Genesis 4 so the five of you want to go with that. So as we are thinking about this. Yeah, you got something if we could be admitting it and then thinking you walked how bad do I want you to show me where I to interpret and let your desire drive your intellect to find yourself closer to God remembering out of boot camp, not