If There Is No God, There Are No Rights ft. Frank Turek

Hey everybody, my conversation with Frank Turek from Cross-Examined.

We talk about the resurrection, how Christians should vote this cycle, and what Christians should think of regarding Donald Trump and more. Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com. Subscribe to our podcast, open up your podcast application, and type in charliekirkshow. Become a member today, members.charliekirk.com. That is members.charliekirk.com.

Buckle up everybody, here we go. To have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House folks. I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

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Go to noblegoldinvestments.com. Joining us now is one of my favorite people, Frank Turek. Frank, good to see you, man.

The great Charlie Kirk, man. Oh, well, thank you. I'll give you here because it's hard to go over, but yes, Frank, thank you so much for everything you do. We had a great event on Friday night.

We did. Friday night was just an amazing event at Calvary Chapel Tucson, and there were so many great questions and so many great testimonies. You know, Charlie, there was one, this lady got up to the microphone. She had to be in her 20s, and she looked at you and she said, Charlie, you changed my life because I went to Amfest by accident.

Like, how do you go to Amfest by accident? She was so sweet, and I wanted to get the full story there. Anyway, she met her future husband at Amfest and went from a feminist to now somebody who is a conservative because of Amfest.

She wants to be a mom. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was just an amazing night, and it was a Hands of Hope night, which is a crisis pregnancy center there in Tucson that we were trying to help raise money for, and we're trying to encourage people to vote pro-life, particularly here in Arizona. Big time. 139, Amendment 139.

No on 139, ladies and gentlemen. It's a real, real, real challenge right now. It is, yeah. As you pointed out, the abortion lobby is very well funded, and they are also shading the truth quite a bit. And if this passes in Arizona, you could kill your child up to the moment of birth. It's a Kamala Harris position, actually. It is.

It would be the Kamala Harris abortion agenda in Arizona. That's right. Yeah.

And so no on 139, ladies and gentlemen. We had great turnout and great spirit, though. We did. It was really terrific.

Yeah, yeah. And they said it was the biggest event they've done in quite some time. It was. Robert Furrow, the pastor of Calvert Chapel Tucson, was great, a great host. And we took over an hour of questions.

I don't think this is online yet, but it will be at some point. Oh, yeah. And it was really good dialogue, really good back and forth. So, Frank, you do campus stuff. Oh, yeah.

All the time. Campus stuff. I'm in town right now to do Arizona State. Yeah. And so to walk our audience through your normal campus presentation, they're intimately aware of mine.

Uh-huh. But for yours, I want to make sure you introduce yourself. So, Frank, but for yours, I want to make sure you introduce yourself.

What is your shtick that you do? Well, I wrote a book, co-wrote a book about 20 years ago called I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist with Dr. Norman Geisler, who was a brilliant man who, by the time he died, Charlie, they figured out he had either written, co-written, or updated 129 books in his life. Wow.

This guy was a machine. And I learned just about everything I know about Christianity from him and the evidence for Christianity. So when we go to a college campus, it's called I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist, and I present the evidence that Christianity is true through four basic sections. Does truth exist? Does God exist? Are miracles possible?

And is the New Testament telling us the truth about the resurrection? So that's your presentation. That's it. And then I take questions, and questions go on for an hour, sometimes more, and of course we get questions from atheists and people of other faiths, and all that is live-streamed. If they go to our YouTube channel, Cross-Examined YouTube channel, two words, Cross-Examined, you can see every event we do. And then we take the Q&A, just like you guys do, from your college campus events, we splice it up, here's a question, here's an answer, and so our website's crossexamined.org, and the YouTube channel is two words, Cross-Examined.

So we've been doing this for about 18 years now, and our events are probably an hour and a half of me presenting, and then an hour or more of Q&A. Wow, so let's go through those four points. Miracles exist. Well, the first one is, does truth exist? Because a lot of people saying, you know, there's no truth, you have your truth, I have my truth, and whenever someone says, there is no truth, I always ask them, is that true? Is it true that there's no truth? Yeah, it's a self-defeating statement to say there's no truth, which means relativism and postmodernism are false, because they claim it's true there's no truth. So it's just using logic in point one, does truth exist?

That's the first one. Then we move on to, does God exist? And we give three arguments for the existence of God. The first argument is the argument from the beginning of the universe, known as the cosmological argument.

The second argument is the argument from design, known as the teleological argument. So the universe is designed, highly fine-tuned, and you and I are designed, and life in general is designed. In fact, the natural laws that drive the universe are designed. The natural laws themselves, laws come from lawgivers, they're very precise, they're very consistent. If you were to change any one of a number of factors about our universe, virtually imperceptibly, including the natural laws themselves, Charlie, we wouldn't even exist. So that's the fine-tuning argument for God, the design argument.

And the third argument for God is the moral argument, which you and I traffic in all the time. Yeah, that's where I spend most of my time. By the way, Charlie, just to detour a little bit, you just did an unbelievable job at something called a jubilee. Tell people about that. I don't know if I think I did okay.

No, no, no, no. I survived. Ladies and gentlemen, you gotta see these clips. Well, not just the clips, but the whole thing.

It's out of YouTube channel. It's called Jubilee, and they were very honest brokers, to their credit, and you've never quite seen anything like it, right, Frank? No, I'm calling it the circle of Satan. That would be a fair description. That was hard. I mean, it was hard because, for the stamina, and by the way, that was an hour and a half. It was, they didn't use about an hour of it, and I was actually okay with it, because the topics we did, they got really messy, the stuff they edited out. Okay.

But so imagine two and a half hours. Yes, you do two and a half hours of Q&A, but you're sitting there, and it's the best argument that they have, constantly constantly coming at you, and the best way I could explain it to the audience that didn't see it, we will be playing some tape, maybe this hour, but definitely in future episodes. I sit in the middle, and there's 20 people around me, and they can rush to the chair, and debate me on whatever the topic is, and then as soon as they're not doing as well, they can get voted off, so on and so forth. Right, and you, the first topic you were covering was abortion, so you have 20 college liberal woke students surrounding Charlie Kirk. One of them goes up and debates him, and when their colleagues say, hey, they're not, this, this kid isn't doing very well against Charlie. Get him out.

Somebody else rushes in. I know. And so you are just debating 20 people at once, basically. But not only 20 people, but 20 people who, who have had time to think the topic through.

All right. When I am having a completely different, like, so I'm having a conversation with you, meanwhile there's 19 other people that are thinking through the best point that they have. So they don't tell you the topics. Well, they do, but think about it. If you and I are talking about, you know, does miracles exist? Yeah.

Somebody sitting, you know, over there could be talking about does truth exist, thinking about truth exists. So they're coming up with a separate point that I haven't even. Oh, all right. Does that make sense? Yeah. They're fresh from a sports stamp, right? Right. It's, we're playing basketball, and it's just, they constantly can substitute. It's more like boxing.

You know, you get somebody on the ropes, and there's a new guy that comes. No, that's exactly right. And so if you think I did well, Frank, that's very touching. I will say, I think I kept my calm well.

You did. Which is half the battle in these. Right. You should see the comments on it in YouTube, folks. A lot of people are saying, these kids, they get too emotional.

It just takes away from any argument they have. And so you, you held your ground very well. You're very calm and cool. That is a hard gig, really hard gig. That was, that was one of the hardest ones, so that I did. And the topics were, you know, about this kind of the moral argument. Yeah.

So build that out. All right. The moral argument says, essentially, that if there's one thing morally wrong, one thing, just one, it's wrong to torture babies for fun. It's wrong to kill six million people in a Holocaust. It's wrong to shoot up nine-year-olds in a school. Then there has to be a God.

Why? Because if there is no standard beyond humanity that we're obligated to obey, then everything's just a matter of opinion. That would just be your opinion against the school shooter's opinion or your opinion against Hitler's opinion.

Well, we know these issues aren't just a matter of opinion. It's really wrong to murder schoolchildren. It's really wrong to murder six million people in a Holocaust. If that's the case, there must be a standard of really right outside of ourselves that we're all obligated to obey, all appealing to. Yes, that standard is God's nature.

If God doesn't exist, nothing's ultimately right or wrong. Now, kids on a college campus. This is where all my conversations get to sit back to, Frank. And this is what people understand.

And you get it because, I mean, you're on these campuses more than I am actually sometimes. But that we'll be talking about abortion, but then it will go back down to. But who's to say it is wrong? Right. Who's to say it's wrong?

And eventually there will be this tension. That's right. Where they say, well, morality is derived amongst the group or the tribe. That's what they'll say, that morality is based on up or down vote and just kind of societal norms and customs. But if a society decided abortion was wrong and outlawed, they would still say, no, it's a right. So they don't agree with their own premise. That's very I've never heard.

So build that out a little bit. Well, if they're saying morality is just decided by human beings, the group, what happens when a society many years ago decided that slavery was OK? Did that make it OK? No.

What if our society one day I use. But the abortion thing is so true. Right. Because I would say, OK, let's go to Oklahoma where the group has decided abortion is wrong.

Yes. They'd say no, no, no, they're wrong. How can they be wrong if it's relative?

See, if morality is just decided by human beings, then we couldn't even we couldn't even prosecute the Nazis for what they did. Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here as we gear up for another important election year. Remember that we vote every day with our dollar. One of the best ways to support America is by buying from local farms and ranches. Good ranchers makes this easy by delivering 100 percent American meat to your door. When you shop with good ranchers, you're not just getting the best meat for your family, but also supporting American farmers and ranchers. This year, instead of buying imported meat, cast your vote for American agriculture and local economy. Obvious good ranchers meet for quite some time and they never disappoint. Whatever your choice of protein, you'll be pleased if you cast a vote for good ranchers. Use code Kirk for twenty five dollars off your order and your choice of free chicken breasts, ground beef, bacon or wild caught salmon for a year.

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Promo code Kirk. So, Frank, let's go deeper into this, because the audience thinks what we have is a political divide in this country, but it's really a moral divide. It's a worldview divide.

What do you mean by that? Well, there are people that think that they are the moral arbiters of right and wrong and whatever they think is true about morality. When, in fact, if it's just a personal opinion on their part, then they really don't have any moral rights.

It's just their opinion. You know, if there's no God, there are no rights. There's there's no there's not only no right to abortion, there's no right to net to a life. There's not only no right to same sex marriage, there's no right to natural marriage. There are no trans rights, Christian rights, human rights. There are no rights anywhere if there's no God. Everything's a matter of opinion. This is why, of course, our country began with we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men were created and endowed by their government. No, endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights. Among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

So I always ask people, what's your moral standard by saying that you have a trans right or a right to kill an unborn child or a right to do whatever you want to do sexually? Where does that come from? Where do you think that comes from?

And they don't have an answer because there isn't an answer. Or they'll go down the road the road you mentioned, which is a group of the group. Is that is that the one that you get? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Well, the group decides. The problem is, when they run into that, then, as you said, if Oklahoma decides abortion's wrong, they're going to say, no, it's a right. No, you can't have it both ways. Either human beings decide or they don't. Hey, if the Nazis had won World War II and convinced everybody that killing Jews, homosexuals, gypsies and Jehovah's Witnesses was morally right, would that make it morally right?

No. There's a standard beyond human opinion that we're all appealing to. The question is, do you have that standard in your world view or are you just the moral arbitrator of the universe? And sometimes they will say, Frank, but who's God and what standard? Is it Islamic, Christian?

How do you navigate that objection? Yeah, well, first of all, you don't need to know whether it's the Christian God or the Muslim God from natural law, which is what Jefferson's appealing to, that there has to be a God out there whose nature is the moral standard. Now, according to Muslim theology, Allah is not the moral standard. Allah is arbitrary. Whatever Allah does is good. So Allah could wake up tomorrow and say rape is good, and you'd obey that, just it's based on authority. So Allah, if you look at Muslim theology, can't be the ultimate moral standard.

The ultimate moral standard has to be an unchanging source of morality whose nature is good, and that meets with the Jewish God and obviously also the Christian God, because they're the same. But I think you can show through evidence, and that's why we do, we go to college campuses and we present evidence that truth exists, God exists, miracles are possible, and Jesus rose from the dead. Look, if Jesus rose from the dead, the Christian God is the true God.

No, that is the whole ballgame. We know creation happened, that's self-evident. Genesis 1-1 and the resurrection are the only two miracles you need to know. That's right, exactly. Not to say that other miracles didn't happen, but even if those other miracles didn't happen, that doesn't matter, right? Yeah.

Is that correct? No, what I say to people when we get to are miracles possible is, if you don't think miracles are possible, look around, you're living in one. This universe is a miracle. Our existence is a miracle. Right, our existence is a miracle. And even atheists now, Charlie, as you know, are admitting the evidence for the first miracle. They don't think it's God, but what else could it be? If space, time, and matter had a beginning out of nothing, which is what the evidence shows... And something outside of it. Yeah, it's got to be something outside of it. They use quantum physics, have you heard that answer? Oh yeah, that's Lawrence Krauss here at Arizona State.

How do I respond to that? Oh, well... Can you explain the argument to our audience? Yeah, well, Lawrence Krauss, who used to teach here at Arizona State, said that, you know, nothing can produce something because nothing is actually something. Nothing is a quantum vacuum.

Right. When in his world, even atheists are poo-pooing his argument, because a quantum vacuum is not nothing. A quantum vacuum is still a sea of fluctuating energy, which would itself need to be created.

So even if a universe could come from a quantum vacuum, where did the quantum vacuum come from? You get back to an ultimate spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful, personal, intelligent creator. They then respond to me, but then who created God, right?

Well... So it eventually gets back to this... Well, then you ask the question, look, if space, time, and matter had a beginning, then the only thing that could have created that is something outside of space, time, and matter, and if you're outside of time, do you have a beginning? No, you didn't have a beginning, because you're eternal. So who made God is really a illegitimate question, because nobody made the unmade being. There has to be an uncreated creator out there. It's either the universe or something outside the universe, but all the evidence shows the universe had a beginning, so it must be something outside the universe that brought it into existence. And by the way, even Aristotle understood there had to be an unmoved mover.

That's correct. Now he didn't think... He thought the universe was eternal, but he said, even if it is eternal, you need an unmoved mover to keep everything going in the direction it's going in. So you don't get rid of the need for God.

Even if the universe is eternal, you still need a God. Frank Turk is with us, crossexamine.org. So much to discuss here, as you can see why I love this guy, and he goes to college campuses.

He does a great job. We're gonna do one together in the spring. We got to. It'll be a blast.

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Fight naturally with Relief Factor, relieffactor.com. So Frank, when you present a lot of the evidence to an average college student, is it persuasive or is there a heart issue that's sometimes underlying? Well, great question, because here's the question I ask anybody that gets to the microphone that expresses any hostility at all. The question is, if Christianity were true, would you become a Christian? And Charlie, I've had atheists stand at that microphone in front of hundreds of people and say, no. And I say, no? How is it reasonable you wouldn't believe something that was true? Well, it's not a matter of reason, Charlie. It's not a matter of the head.

It's a matter of the heart. They don't want it to be true. They don't want there to be a God.

Why? Because they want to be God over their own lives. They're not on a truth quest. They're on a happiness quest. And they're just going to believe whatever they think is going to make them happy. And the problem is, we can make ourselves happy over the short term, doing a lot of fun but selfish and sinful things. Yet over the long term, it's a disaster. And anyone who's listening to us right now over 40 years old knows what I'm talking about, because many of us have tried to live for ourselves and we realize it doesn't work out.

If you live completely for yourself, you're going to wind up divorced, alone, addicted, broken, and probably prematurely dead. And what we find on campus is more a cluster of people that worship self, I think, more than any other population of the country. Is that probably true? Yeah, it's me-ology, not theology.

That's what it is. Where does that come from? It comes from the human heart, that we're fallen and we need a savior. Our heart is deceitful and corrupt and it wants what it wants. I have a fallen heart. You have a fallen heart. Everyone listening to us has a fallen heart. And we will suppress the truth to get our own way. And the three big motivators, Charlie, the three big things that you and I and everyone listening have to protect ourselves against are an unhealthy desire for sex, money, or power. Because if it goes beyond what it should go beyond, any one of us can sink ourselves. Because sex, money, and power are good things. In fact, they're so good, we'll often take shortcuts to get them.

And that's why we sin. In fact, my cold case homicide detective buddy, Jay Warner Wallace, I want to have him on the show for a while. But yeah, yeah, I'll connect you with him.

He is. He says whenever he finds a murdered body, Charlie, he goes, I don't need to track down a thousand motivations for why this guy was murdered. He said, I only need to find one or more of these three motivations. There was either a sex issue, a money issue or a power issue. Those are the three things that can drive people to murder.

And they're the same three things that can drive any of us to sin, to do what we ought not do, to get those good things. So so many young people, when they get to college, they they want to have sexual freedom. Yes.

They want to do their own thing. I get it. I was there. But in reality, it's a dead end long term.

So what your presentations are probably the most helpful to someone that has an open heart to the gospel. Is that fair to say? Yeah, but I've had many people. In fact, I just had a guy at our event the other night at our event the other night in Tucson. A guy came up to me after and he said, I want to apologize to you.

I said, why? He said, you were at the University of Kentucky eight years ago. And after the event, I asked you a number of questions during the event. And after the event, you invited me to dinner. So I I don't remember this, but I took this guy to dinner and he said that helped soften my heart to the point that I'm now a Christian.

Wow. Good for you. So well, I know I'm just and you don't even remember it. No, I don't remember it. That is such a good example that that memory is not connected to because that's an argument that the left will use with abortion. So you don't have the ability to form memories. You should be able to slaughter a child. And it's just I mean, if you if your whole memory got wiped out, that doesn't null or void your your your moral contribution. No, no, not at all.

But there's a lot of things I've done that I don't remember either that were evil. And that's that's why I need a savior. No, that's right. But and that's where it all needs to point back to is that we're broken by nature. But colleges, institutionally, they will they'll play into the depravity.

Of course, they have an intellectual department, philosophical department designed and configured towards that. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah. They they are there to actually put forth a moral position, even though they don't have a moral standard, an objective moral standard. They're trying to say things like if you're against a young person transitioning, you're immoral, Charlie. If you're against a young person getting an abortion, you're immoral, Charlie. If you're someone that supports, say, Donald Trump for president because you think this nation should have borders, for example, you're immoral, Charlie. Where are they getting this moral standard from? Where are they getting it from, Charlie? Show me the lit. Well, we'll we'll start with the Ten Commandments.

That's what you and I live off. All right. What is their ten commandments? Well, they don't have one. Yeah. Well, they.

Yeah. Well, they steal from our I wrote a book a number of years ago called Stealing from God, Why Atheists Need God to Make Their Case. They have to steal a moral standard from God while claiming he doesn't exist.

In effect, they have to sit in God's lap to slap his face. Right. Because they have all these moral rights, abortion, trans. You know, you you ought not colonialize people, whatever their standard is. Right. They they don't have a standard in their worldview.

They have all these moral precepts, but no way to justify them. Yes. So.

So, Frank, then the work you're doing on campus is generating a lot of fruit. I'm sure politics comes up. Sure. So often.

Yeah. And you were so eloquent and so good. I was telling Mikey and Pastor Furo in Tucson.

I don't need to speak. Frank is just doing amazing, which is how should Christians think about this election? I think like every election, Christians ought to vote biblically. And you say, well, Jesus was involved in wasn't involved in politics.

And I say, oh, contrary. Who did Jesus go after the most? He went after the Pharisees. And who were the Pharisees? Some were some of them were on the Sanhedrin, the Jewish ruling council to whom Rome delegated day to day lawmaking authority.

In other words, Charlie, they were the politicians. And Jesus went after these people. In fact, in Matthew twenty three, twenty three. This is easy to remember. Matthew twenty three, twenty three.

Jesus also Michael Jordan's number. It is. Yeah. There you go.

Guy from Chicago. I'll never forget. And the Bears won yesterday. But the other miracles do that miracles do happen.

You're right. Anyway, in Matthew twenty three, twenty three, Jesus says to these politicians, he says, you've tied your spices, mint, dill and cumin, but you've neglected the more important matters of the law. Justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the former without neglecting the latter. You blind guide.

You sweat strain out in that and swallow a camel. What's he saying? He's saying that you have done the minor things, tied your spices, but you're neglecting justice. The bigger issue is justice. And we are doing the same thing in our country.

Charlie, we're telling people what light bulbs they can and can't use. But we won't say don't murder your children. Kamala Harris wants to ban plastic straws, but she doesn't want to ban child mutilation. She's neglecting the more important matters of the law.

Jesus was was scolding these politicians for doing that. So when you go to vote, I think what you ought to do is vote on the more important matters of the law. And look, I get it. You might not like either candidate.

I get it. OK. What you also need to remember is you're not voting for one person when you're voting for president. You're voting for 5000 people to go to Washington and implement a platform. And which platform is going to be implemented?

I don't know. Do we even have a Kamala Harris platform yet? It finally is out. It came out just yesterday.

I heard it's yeah. It's full of abstractions. There's no specifics. There's no specifics. We want people to be happier. We want, you know, I'm half kidding. Right.

But it's it's ridiculous. There's nothing there. OK, so there's nothing there. I remember in her Dana Bash interview, she was asked, what are you going to do on day one? She said, help the middle class. And there was no specifics.

That's basically what her Web site is. OK, so you need to vote on policy. Ladies and gentlemen, what's the most important policies? And in my view, the right to life is the right to all other rights.

If you don't have life, you don't have anything. Now, Charlie, you and I have spoken and I know you have have reached out to people within the Republican Party. We're not happy that the Republican Party has softened its view on the abortion issue.

And that's going to be something we're going to have to deal with moving forward. However, and actually, President Trump said in the first debate with Biden, you know, you got to get elected. He's just like speaking off the top of his head. Sounds like Trump. Right.

But you got to get elected. And he's right. If a candidate were to say that I know that an unborn child is a human being and I am not for any exceptions to to abortion, even though that's the right moral position and we must be unwavering and saying, yes, it is the right where your eye roll is. Totally. We're together on that, except, of course, for life of the mother. But life of the mother, the intent is not to kill the child. The intent is to save the mother.

And cesarean section should be given as the prime exactly, which almost never is. Yeah. Yeah. You said that there's one exception where that won't work. And that's an attack. That's right.

However, most of the time, cesarean can be tried. That's right. Yeah, that's right. OK.

But we don't get too deep. Yeah. In any event, if if you if a Christian votes for the Democrat platform, what you're getting is abortion up to the moment of birth and your tax dollars are paying for it and overturning the 14 states that have gotten rid of abortion. Yeah, that's the critical part. That is Trump will allow states to stay pro-life.

Kamala Harris will not. That is correct. Also, on the religious freedom issue, it's not even close yet. Go ahead. Unpack that.

No, no, no, this is. Yeah, but from from judges, from mandatory lockdowns to religious liberty, to religious consciousness. For example, Kamala Harris's regime would force Christian schools to have boys in women's locker rooms.

Not only that, when it comes to religious freedom, if they pass the Equality Act, which is not equality at all, religious rights would take would would be subservient, would be overpowered by any LGBTQ rights, which means women's all that stuff, sports and pastors and priests would have to do homosexual marriages. And so Trump is against all of that. Yes. Let's just be clear. Right. And he's against men in women's sports. It's what I said a minute ago.

No, no. And it's in his in his platform. And President Trump has also put great judges. And let's not forget, he did give us the reversal rovers.

He did that. That is worthy of our gratitude. You know, Charlie, another thing that has come up with regard to this on the abortion issue, if I were asked, if I was the candidate and I was asked, would you sign a pro life bill if it came across your desk? I would say this. I would say if a pro life bill came across my desk, that would mean the people wanted it.

And therefore we had moved the country in the right direction. But you and I both know that's not coming across my desk. And so the better, the better question would be for my opponent, Kamala Harris, are you going to sign a ban against abortions in the third trimester, which the American people do want? Yeah, they do want a ban on that. And she's going to say no. In fact, I want the government to pay for those. So that's ridiculous. And by the way, everyone knows we're not going to get a constitutional amendment right now on the life issue.

You need two thirds of the Congress and thirty seven states. Charlie, you're not there. No, but we but we need to keep fighting. We need to keep fighting.

And pastors and Christians need to fight. It's our issue, not the Republican Party's issue. It's our issue that we haven't been persuasive enough. We haven't talked about it enough. We haven't showed them what's going on in an abortion.

In fact, I challenge anybody who's pro abortion out there or pro choice right now. I want you to go to case for life dot com case for life dot com and watch the one minute video. Scroll down. You'll see it. It's a video.

Can I interject? I think you have a moral obligation to watch it. You're right. You're pro abortion. Absolutely.

Just as if you were pro slavery, you should have to watch the horror associated with your view. Yes. If you are pro abortion, if you can stomach that one minute video, then you can hold on to those views. That's right.

If you can't if you can't stomach that one minute video, then there's something I don't say hypocritical, but that's probably the best word for it. Yes. And I showed that video the other night at Calvary Chapel Tucson. People were crying.

Yes. I warned them. This is you're going to see an abortion in every in every dry method in a very classy way. Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

What an unbelievable start to twenty twenty four. We had last month saving babies with preborn by providing ultrasounds. And we're doing again this year what we did last year. We're going to stand for life because remaining silent in the face of the most radically pro death administration is not an option. As Sir Edmund Burke said, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

And we're not going to do nothing. Your gift to preborn will give a girl the truth about what's happening in her body so that she can make the right choice. Two hundred eighty dollars can save 10 babies. Twenty eight dollars a month can save a baby a month all year long. And a fifteen thousand dollar gift will provide a complete ultrasound machine that will save thousands of babies for years and years to come and will also save moms from a lifetime of pain and regret. Call eight three three eight five zero two two two nine. That's eight three three eight five zero triple two nine or click on the preborn banner at Charlie Kirk Dotcom. That is Charlie Kirk Dotcom and click on the preborn banner. Also save moms from a lifetime of pain and regret. I'm a donor of this organization. They're terrific. Go to Charlie Kirk Dotcom.

Click on the preborn banner. Frank, I want to close with the most important topic, which is so we have does truth exist? Miracles exist?

Does God exist? Can we trust the New Testament? Yeah. And you've trained me on this, that it's easy to get caught up on Jonah and the whale, you know, parting the Red Sea. All of that stuff is important, but none of it really matters unless you can the resurrection, correct?

Yeah. And the greatest miracle in the Bible is not the resurrection. The greatest miracle in the Bible is the first verse.

In the beginning, God created the better sheath in Hebrew. If that verse is true, ladies and gentlemen, every other verse is at least possible. And even atheists are admitting the data for it. In fact, Stephen Hawking, who was the top physicist in the world, at least the most popular until he died about six years ago, said almost everyone now believes that the universe and time itself had a beginning at the Big Bang. Now, he didn't have an explanation for this that was plausible.

But if space, time and matter had a beginning, then whatever created space, time and matter must transcend space, time and matter must be spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful, personal and intelligent, which I cover in the I don't have enough faith to be an atheist presentation on our YouTube channel so they can go see that YouTube is cross-examined. Anyway, if Genesis 1 1 is true, a resurrection is at least possible, Charlie. So is Jonah. So is Noah. So all that is secondary, meaning Jonah could be.

I said this and someone got upset. If Jonah is allegorical, that doesn't mean the resurrection is not true. Of course.

And I don't believe Jonah is. I don't know. I think it's literal. Yes. Jesus said it was. Of course.

I'm just saying, though, that. Yeah. Let's get back to the resurrection. That's right.

That is the core. The resurrection is is is true because, look, who wrote this down, Charlie? These were Jews who thought they were God's chosen people. They had every motive to say the resurrection wasn't true.

Not every motive to say it was. And they went to their deaths not for just a claim. They went to their deaths for something. They said they saw the risen Jesus, which would get them killed and did killed. They had no motive to make up a new religion because by saying Jesus had resurrected from the dead and saying he was God, first of all, it's blasphemy to say you were God in that culture. And they didn't think one guy would rise from the dead at the end or in the middle of time. They knew we'd all rise at the end. But this was not on their radar, Charlie. They did not think a guy could claim to be God and rise from the dead. And that here they are claiming that it gets them beaten, tortured and killed.

This is not a list of perks. They're not going to make this up. And then they go and die for it and spread it around the world.

Now, why would they do this if they're making it up? Now, I like to say this just to kind of wake people up. I say to them, Christianity is not true, Charlie, because a series of documents that we put under one binding we call the Bible says it's true.

In fact, Christianity would be true if the Bible never existed. And people go, well, how can that be? Because do you realize there were thousands of Christians before a line of the New Testament was ever written? Yeah.

Why? Because they didn't read about it in a book. They saw the risen Jesus themselves. In other words, Christianity did not begin with a book. Christianity began with an event, the resurrection. There would be no series of books we put under one one binding we call the New Testament, unless Jesus rose from the dead, because Jews would never invent this. This is not an invented story.

In fact, I like to say it this way. The New Testament writers did not create the resurrection. The resurrection created the New Testament writers, right?

You wouldn't have these documents written by Jews in the first century, who then would go die for it. And by the way, it's not like Muslims who die for their faith now. Muslims who die for their faith now haven't witnessed anything. They just think it's true. The New Testament writers were in a position to know whether it was true. You see, many people will die for a lie they think is the truth.

Nobody will die for a lie they know is a lie. And the New Testament writers were in a position to know whether it was a lie or not, and they went to their deaths anyway. Well, and then also the story of Paul is perplexing.

Oh, yes. Without the resurrection, there is no explanation for Paul. And James, the half-brother of Jesus, he didn't think his own brother was God. Thirty years later, he's dying as a martyr, as Josephus, the Jewish historian, tells us. In India or something. No, no, he's dying in Jerusalem.

Is that right? Yeah, yeah, Josephus tells us. Thomas was in India.

Yeah, Thomas was in India. James, why is James dying for his brother's claim that he was God if he hadn't witnessed the resurrected Jesus? He did resurrect. He did witness the resurrected Jesus. So we cover all this and I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

And at the end of the day, we ask people, hey, this is true. Why don't you believe it? You don't want to believe it.

It's free. Look, you're you're only going to get one of two things in the afterlife. You're going to get justice or you're going to get grace. I don't want justice, Charlie. No, you don't want justice. Everybody out there listening shouldn't want justice. We should want grace. That Jesus took our punishment on himself, and by trusting in him, you're not only forgiven, you're given his righteousness.

Frank, God bless you, man. It's crossexamined.org, and how many campus stops do you have? We have about nine this semester. Good for you. That's great.

And they go viral. They do very well. We hope so, yeah. We'll be at Western Carolina University next week. Check us out.

That's Monday the 18th, and then a bunch in Louisiana the following week. So go to crossexamined.org. You'll see it there. Frank Turek, God bless you, man. Thanks so much.

Thank you, the great Charlie Kirk. Keep it up, brother. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com. Thanks so much for listening, and God bless. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.