Roundtable Time!!

All right, it's the roundtable discussion with our good friends, Ben Swain, follow him on Twitter, at the Ben Swain. Funniest guy in ACC Hoops, and you could say he leans towards favoring the Duke Blue Devils. Josh Goodson at, what are you at, JW Goodson on Twitter? I get your email and your Twitter handle mixed up. Josh W. Josh W. Goodson at Twitter.

You could say he's an NC State fan, although he's a UNC grad, so we keep it weird around here. You can check out their work also at Sports Channel 8. They do good stuff. How are you guys doing, boys? I mean, I almost hung up after that intro.

It was only because I... Seriously. No, no, no. Forget the big words that Luke DeCock likes to use. He's an Everton fan, which means it is impossible to be half as smart as him. Okay?

Like, you cannot divide by zero, so you cannot be half as smart as any Everton fan. I feel like even Luke would appreciate that joke. We have Duke UNC this weekend. What is the state of the rivalry in the post-Coach K era, in the post they played in the Final Four, and the walls came crumbling down, the world stopped?

What's the state of the Duke UNC rivalry right now, Swain? I thought it was over, right? Yeah, but then, nobody actually believed that. Nobody, nobody actually felt that way. We knew the world wouldn't end. Here's the thing.

Here's the vibe over here in the beautiful Bull City. The funny thing about one side claiming that the rivalry is perpetually dead is that Duke now... The big term last year was house money, right? Like, UNC was playing with house money, which is a little way to protect themselves from whatever happened in that game. Duke now has eternal house money because the rivalry is over, so there's really nothing bad that can happen to them.

It's all good from here. So, everybody's, it's a comfortable, sunny day every year in Durham. And how are you, I see Big Game Boomer right now has a hot take today. UNC NC State is a better rivalry than UNC Duke. Goodson, how much are you looking forward to the next UNC NC State showdown? I'm actually pretty pumped. I never, you never want to get there and feel like this game, that people are going to be mad. Fans are going to be angry.

It's going to be a hostile environment. It usually doesn't live up to that. But given how the game was a couple weeks ago, that me and you were intended for that, sitting in a good seat to kind of see all the different emotions from both sides. And also, it helps that State is actually playing well after that game too. State fans, they always have the UNC game circled. It's their biggest game of the year. It's okay admitting that. But I think even more so, there's definitely an anger that's going to be part of this year. You know what's funny about the Duke Carolina game?

I had to go back and look. Last year, did you know the first game where Duke won by 20? UNC still shot more free throws than Duke in that game, which is unbelievable to even fathom. Duke was 10 of 13 from the free throw line. UNC was 10 of 15.

It's pretty incredible just looking back at all these historical stats. I don't think that there's an ESPN researcher that could go back and tell you the last time that these two teams were equal and foul. Because that probably doesn't exist. Josh, there is one. He just won't. The ESPN researcher that we know that would do it just won't do that.

Are you guys with me? There's a score-a-gami bot who in real time is calculating your score-a-gami odd percentages and the best possible score to get the score-a-gami. We need a real time Duke-UNC when were they equal bot. When Duke is up by six in the first eight minutes of this game, the bot can calculate, okay, we now need to go back to 1971 in this game and now the scores are even. We need to know in real time at all times at the point at which we start where Duke-UNC could be 100% equal. Swain, let me ask you this.

What were your observations? Where do Duke fans sit watching the Capel-UNC rivalry that kind of doesn't involve them, kind of does, but they get to just sit back and enjoy UNC beefing with the Capel family? Yeah, it was funny.

That's really all it comes down to. I think, you know, every Duke fan will always, you know, hold a special place in their heart for Jeff Capel because they're good fans and they don't turn on their ex-players. But just the whole situation in general was pretty funny to watch. And honestly, it's not the first time that we've seen a yelling situation that's happened in the tunnel to Dean Dome. Good to have not found our way back there, back when it was Turgeon, right? At Maryland?

Yes. Yeah, Turgeon was yelling something, kind of, he wasn't there, but he was yelling at Roy Williams just openly in the hallway. And we were somewhere that we shouldn't have been and got to hear that. So, there's a lot of stuff that goes down in the Dean Dome tunnels that we don't know about. Maybe that would be a good book, right? Like, I'd like to read that book.

What goes on in the Dean Dome tunnels? To be fair, I think Turgeon yelled a lot, so that may have not stood out as a rare behavior for him specifically, but your point is well taken. Goodson, who's more fun to watch right now, Turquavian or DJ Burns?

Oh, God, that's a good one. DJ Burns is interesting because he has this weird effect now when he gets the ball. Oh, dude.

I think you may have. Yes. The crowd gets amped, and what's cool about it is we're getting the payoff more often than not, too. Like, he's either always scoring or he's just finding the right guy, and thankfully the guy in the corner, Casey Morsell or Turquavian, whoever it is, is actually making the three. Burns is definitely, I would say he's probably more fun right now in watching the state games.

It's pretty odd. They're playing with a lot of confidence, the whole team is right now, and you can see that on the court. You nailed it. That's the best thing about Burns, is the entire game stops when he gets the ball.

So good. Like, clear out on the block for him to back somebody down. So there is a literal pause in the game that allows everybody to get really excited about what's about to happen with Smith. It's more like a quick slash or something like that.

You don't have that chance to do it. But that's my favorite thing about Burns, is the game just stops entirely when he gets the ball and he gets to have that anticipated moment. DJ Burns has reached NASCAR and hockey status where you truly have to be in person to appreciate the whole vibe of everybody. You said he starts in the block. Many times he starts at the three-point line now.

And it's just amazing, which makes the pause even longer. And it just feels like Patrick Ewing back in the day, just like, no, this is the offense. My man is going to slowly back down.

You better send two other people and then hope he doesn't find somebody. Georgia Tech message they play tomorrow, I've heard, is trying to emphasize drawing fouls tomorrow against DJ Burns to limit those opportunities. So we'll see how that goes. Can teams do that? Can teams decide they want to draw fouls more and be good at it? I've been told the teams can decide that they can draw more fouls and also teams can just stop fouling in general.

It's something we've learned over the last week or two. While we're there, officiating has been a discussion. Is officiating worse this year than in years past, or do we say that every year? And are we discussing officials more this year, or is that something we say every year too?

Swain? I think we say it every year that we discuss it more. We're past that, right?

Every game's on TV, social media where everybody can talk about it in real time. We've had that for years, but that hasn't changed at all. I think the biggest problem, for two reasons. One, the biggest problem is that you've had the same group of ACC referees forever. Like, who was the last new ACC ref that you remember? It's been probably eight, nine years since there was a guy, I'd never heard of him before, and now he's in the constant rotation to do a game. It's the same guys over and over again, which means, number one, they're probably getting tired and worse at what they do, which happens in every industry.

If you just do something a long time, you're going to get worse at it. And two, we know them by now, so it's a lot easier to talk about them. But the fact is, they've gotten worse, and I know it's been said many times that it's lazy to talk about refs. It's lazy to argue at kids talking about how bad they are because they've been awful this year. Goodson, any comment on the officials? Is it worse than in the past?

I don't know. I feel like it's funny. Me and you were sitting at the Smith Center, and that's the game that kind of started this discord, I would say, throughout the rest of the year.

And you may agree with me. I don't think I was sitting there as a state fan in real time, and me and you were not on our phones. It's not like we were following Twitter and seeing all the people that were mad, or what was happening. In real time, I didn't think it was anything bad. It never felt nefarious against the state, meaning they were holding the whistle. The fouls that were getting called on the state were called on the state, and they were fouled.

That's fine. It never felt like they weren't getting the other treatment, and I think that's just been the biggest issue is consistency. I don't know why they don't do an NBA-type thing where, let's just refs speak some at the end. Maybe transparency would be better. I don't know. Maybe that would make people more angry.

But I don't know. It is what it is at the end of the day. All we need now to close the loop is for Duke UNC to be played with a women's ball for the first half.

That's what I'm hoping for. I need that controversy. Alright, gentlemen, we are going to use you. We are making a crack committee. For those who don't know, we are big fans of halls of fame in general, but we are tough gatekeepers on halls of fame, right?

You have to truly, truly be a difference maker, and everyone needs to know who you are. That gets a little bit trickier in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and especially with this group, we're going to have... No, it doesn't. Goodson doesn't know who anybody is, so he's not going to let anyone... It does not get trickier.

Anything could get easier. Swain could name the... I'm already getting mad at Goodson for saying it's easy, because only five of these are getting in. Swain can name the drummer for Led Zeppelin's second album or whatever.

Meanwhile, Goodson's over here, and unless he was spoon-fed them as a baby and his parents were playing them, he won't know who they are. But let's do it anyway. It's got to be unanimous.

All three of us have to vote this person in. Our belief is halls of fame should be tough to get into. People are too... Did I see Scott Rowland got into Baseball Hall of Fame?

That would never happen on a Sports Channel 8 committee watch. So with that in mind, and keep in mind, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame has now basically become the popular Music Hall of Fame anyway. So don't get too caught up on whether or not somebody is or is not Rock and Roll. I know you guys don't, but to the audience, it's basically, are you in the popular Music Hall of Fame?

I believe we have these in alphabetical order. They need a unanimous vote. Kate Bush, is she in? Swain? No, just because your dad was president? No, absolutely not.

Goodson? No, absolutely not. Absolutely no, and she only got nominated because her song was big in Stranger Things and she had that come up like last year. She shouldn't even be nominated, it's a joke. Sheryl Crow, Goodson? No. Sheryl Crow is a no.

She's a lovely lady, she's awesome, couple great songs, absolutely not in the Hall of Fame. Missy Elliott, Swain? No.

Swain? That's what I'm torn on. I'm torn on this one.

Goodson? Yeah, absolutely yes. I'm a yes, I'm a yes, Swain, come on.

I love Missy, but there are others that I'm going to have to exclude if I vote for her if I didn't vote for her. Are you saying no? Yeah, I'm saying no.

I thought Goodson was going to hold us up there. She literally has a song where two of the lyrics are her saying words of something backwards and people love that. And so, yeah, 100% yes. She is iconic, we may have to overrule Swain there. Alright, Iron Maiden, Swain? No. Goodson? No. Yes, absolutely no.

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We've been in mostly agreement on these. Cindy Lauper, this could be tough. Swain? Absolutely not. Goodson? Absolutely not, no. It's tough because I'm aware of Cindy Lauper.

I know a couple of her songs. I'm going to go no. I'm going to go no. It's weird. I'll be honest.

I'll vote yes and I would have thought Swain would have voted yes. I'm surprised by that, but I like it that way. I like it that way. There's no chance I'll go for yes. Look, she is a music video icon and had a couple of good songs, but that doesn't put you in the Hall of Fame.

We're talking about the Hall of Fame. I like it. Yes, this is the gatekeeping energy we need.

George Michael, Swain? I'm going to go yes. Goodson? Yeah.

It's a yes. He's in. I was worried.

I was going to break down and cry if we couldn't get him in. George Michael is amazing. Willie Nelson?

Swain? I'm pretty sure you perform at Enhancing Drugs. It's going to be a no for me there. Conseco Claus is keeping him out. Sorry, he's getting Roger Clemens.

Goodson? I'm going no. Is it because he's obviously in the Country Hall of Fame and he just doesn't fit in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame to you?

No. I think his best songs like On the Road Again kind of stink. You're dissecting his music. I try to think now if someone, and I know this is a tough thing, but if someone turns on Willie Nelson now, Willie Nelson's music does not carry over to now at all.

I saw Willie Nelson in concert last year and it was fantastic. Willie Nelson is apparently not in. Rage Against the Machine, Swain? It's a yes. That's the biggest no on your list. Goodson, you are caving to Swain.

You are caving to Swain. You do not think that Rage Against the Machine belongs in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. How many radios, and I'm sure Victoria can tell you, how many bumps are in the freaking radio show Get Back From the Break thing of Rage Against the Machine and I had to play those forever and ever and I was like these guys are actually pretty good.

This is Cal Tally to Swain. I think they're awesome. I think they are amazing, but they're not in. I'm voting against Rage Against the Machine. Soundgarden, Swain?

Alright, can I have 30 seconds because this one makes me mad. Yes, go for it. Chris Cornell should 100% be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Unquestionably he should be in there. I don't think Soundgarden is good enough. Plus their drummer, Matt Campbell, also the Pro Jam drummer is already in so I'm going to go no Soundgarden but you've got to play Chris Cornell in. This is like BG talking NBA basketball right now where I'm sure everything you said was accurate and people who know both these bands are like yes, finally somebody intelligent talking like when BG talks basketball but I have no idea what you're talking about but I'll take your word for it. Goodson, Soundgarden? I would put Savagegarden in before Soundgarden.

Legitimate LOL. Alright, this is known for me on Soundgarden. The Spinners, Swain? No.

They're awesome but I can't put them in either. Goodson? I'm a no. I think they were just kind of part of the Motown.

They were probably good, they probably have really good songs but there's way better Motown people there and we can't put in guys in there just because the other Motown have come before them. Tribe Called Quest, Swain? I'm going to go yes.

This is going to be tough for me. Goodson? We saw him DJ in Brooklyn, right? No, that was Questlove. That was Questlove. Different Quest. Different band?

No, yeah. They're out. Alright, Tribe Called Quest may be a beneficiary of who they're up against.

There's no other strong rap candidate in there. I think that's going to help them. I'll vote them in.

White Stripes, Swain? That's a no-brainer for me. That's a yes. Goodson?

Sounds too much like referee. No. The 70s answers are fantastic from Goodson. I'm going no too, although I love the White Stripes. And Warren Zevon. I'll tell you, I'm voting no on Warren Zevon just to make old people mad. What?

What? I'm sure he's getting in. I'm voting no. Just get him out of here. Swain, what about you? I'll even go as far as to say there's no song that I hate more than any other popular song ever than Werewolves of Love. I'm right there with you. Right there with you.

God, I hate that song. Goodson, you want to defend yourself? Counter. Counter.

Hack Pro. Wolf. Warren Zevon.

Fantastic work. I don't know why the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame committee doesn't have us as the finalists. I remember what I was going to say about Willie Nelson. This goes to Cyndi Lauper, too. I believe there is a We Are The World corollary where if you are on We Are The World, you've got to get in.

And so Willie Nelson might slide in under that. Gentlemen, thank you for the round table. Enjoy the game tomorrow. Swain, we'll see you on Twitter if Duke wins and Goodson don't have a lid down against Tech. See you, boys.

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