Carolina Hurricanes trade Tony DeAngelo to the Philadelphia Flyers

This is the best of the Adam Gold Show Podcast brought to you by Coach Pete at Capital Financial Advisory Group.

Visit us at capitalfinancialusa.com. This is the Adam Gold Show. Now people are gonna be like, wait, who's reporting this? Is it swim swim news? Is it swim swim news? Because if it's swim swim news, I'm not gonna believe it.

This is the Adam Gold Show. Did UNC leave yet? Are they gone? Rumors. Are they in the SEC yet? I think they are.

What did the state legislation say? Fortunately, this is my last day here this week. I'll be back. I'll be back.

It's summer. So, it looks like if I get through the next three hours and UNC has not left the ACC, he says as he puts his logoed cup away because he remembers he's on TV. And UNC has not left the ACC by the time I leave this building today, I'm going full I told you so on swim swim and everybody who retweeted them seriously. Well, if they do leave, I know exactly what day they'll be leaving. It's the day that you return, sir.

That's right. They'll be back when Adam Gold isn't here. For the first time ever on July 14th, yeah, a little Con Air. Are we adding Con Air to the movies that should play?

We got enough cable channels to stuff full of things. We should be able to play, just like they do, Independence Day on Independence Day, Christmas Story on Christmas Eve. There's Groundhog Day on Groundhog Day.

We want a few others. Mean Girls October 3rd. Miss Congeniality on April 25th. April 25th, and we want Con Air on July 14th. And that's the day that you are back in for Adam Gold.

I'll be back. We'll see. That's when UNC is leaving. If UNC is still in the ACC.

I'm calling it right now because Adam Gold won't be here. The swim swim rumors got so big that we had to pull poor David Teal out of Europe to come back here. Just because, look, if David Teal is in the state of Virginia and he's not reporting on news of Virginia leaving the ACC, then it isn't happening.

And in fact, I got a little concerned because I'm sitting out here being like, these are bogus reports. Teal would have had this. And then I'm texting with Teal and he's like, oh, man, I've been in Europe. I haven't looked at anything.

And then you're like, oh, crap, what's happening? And David Teal just happens to be in Europe. But David Teal's back and he's not reporting anything about Virginia leaving.

So I'm still saying the rumors are bunk. Let's jump in with some sports. We'll talk to Teal in about 10 minutes to get his take on some things. Let's jump out of the gate. This is a close call.

I'm going to let you make the call on this one. Executive producer Dennis Cox. I'm here's Permar filling in for Adam. I've been here for a while now.

I don't have to introduce myself every time. It happened before the show, but less than an hour ago, I think. Are we going to call this breaking news? Does it get the breaking news treatment? Well, we're the first people that are on air to report this. Let's take it. We are breaking news.

It's us in swim swim out there keeping the people informed. This comes from the world of hockey. My sources are excellent on this one because I got an email from the canes. Tony D'Angelo, much discussed, often in the box score, scoring points this season for the Carolina Hurricanes has been traded to the Philadelphia Flyers for and Dennis will help me with the details. Tony D'Angelo and a seventh round pick this year went to the Flyers for a fourth round pick this year, a third round pick next year, and a second round pick in 2024. The following year, two years from now.

So three picks, one of which upgrades them from a seventh round pick to the fourth round pick. If you'll recall, there's a lot of different details to talk about this. We will talk to Mike Maniscalco at the bottom of the hour.

He also maybe I feel so bad. I have to pull people off vacation to talk about these things, but they make things happen because not your fault. They're on vacation. They like you, Dennis Cox. They want to help you out.

A couple different details. Just yesterday, we talked to Rod Brandon Moore, who may not be in the point person for drafting the overall canes draft strategy, but he definitely is one of the people in close discussion about it. And he said, yeah, they've come to adapt the and this is true in football and basketball, too, right? Generally speaking, although these don't always shake out to be the case to there are some guarantees in the NFL or the NBA or the NHL draft, right? If you've got one of those top five picks, you have a high likelihood, even a top eight or 10 pick, depending on the year, you have the high likelihood that you are taking someone that is going to end up playing several years in the NHL. You almost can't screw it up to at least just get somebody that's going to give you years in the NHL. Now, making the right pick of which one's the superstar and which one's the journeyman or whatever.

Like that's that's what it is. But unless you've got one of those top picks and what how do you get top picks right by being really, really bad stink. The canes are now in the position where they're trying to be really, really good every year.

Fortunately, they've been pretty successful. So they're picking in the bottom third of the first round, and they have sort of get going gone with the philosophy of in the second, third, fourth, fifth round. There are dudes you can find, right?

There are dudes that make it. We've got Sebastian Ajo was a second round pick. We've got Jacob Slavin was a fourth round pick. Brett Pesci was a fifth, I believe. Those are three of our best players, right, that weren't first round picks.

So they believe that there is value, but they also kind of admit it's a little bit of a crapshoot. It's a little bit lucky. You might be finding the 17 year old that's a late bloomer that, you know, he's 5'11 now and he's going to be 6'1 two years later when he's playing for us, right? You know what Adam Fox, who was part of the canes before getting traded to New York, I think was a third or fourth round pick.

Yeah. So instead of trying to say to yourself, we know which third round pick guy to take, obviously you're still trying to do due diligence, figure out what you need, figure out what you like, figure out the guy's character, figure out what his skills are. There's some element of them saying, much like most goals in hockey, there's an element of luck in whether or not a third or fourth round pick becomes a good or great player, right? And the more shots we got, Rob Brandemore said it yesterday, the more darts you got to throw at the dartboard, the odds are that you land one and that's this trade seems to stick with that philosophy. Well, again, we'll talk to Mike Maniscalco specifically about what it might mean to trade Tony D'Angelo. We knew that we had Tony D'Angelo at a below value deal for this one year.

It was kind of a symbiotic relationship between the canes and Tony D'Angelo. We'd love to get great value out of a player. We got huge value out of him. Maybe the best, he may have been the best value player in the NHL. He obviously had some baggage, some locker room, character stuff that was dragging him down to the canes, got that value by taking a risk on him. He went and he had a great year. There's nothing that I've seen at all that would suggest anything about letting him get away is, you know, anything related to his old baggage stuff, right? He seemed to be a pretty good teammate, seemed to be well liked, didn't get any trouble. He even jokingly had sometimes mentioned about how it's maybe he's learned to keep his mouth shut on things where he doesn't disagree.

He doesn't agree with the, you know, the norm. And so, so after a year of producing well and not making any waves, his value is obviously much, much higher. He gets a five million a year for two year deal, basically a 10 million dollar deal for two years.

Is that right? With the Philadelphia Flyers? Yeah, two years, five million a year. And the way you explained this to me was, because I was like, wasn't Tony D'Angelo a free agent? Well, he was about to be a restricted free agent. And instead of going through all the hassle of, you know, making him a restricted free agent and taking all these different offers, they just let him seek a trade. This is almost like a pre-restricted free agency.

You go ahead. It's almost like buying a house before it officially came on the market, right? Yeah, essentially. So he was arbitration eligible. So before you even get to arbitration, you can obviously offer him a contract. But if you know you may not want to sign him and there's a team out there that does, as opposed to going through the whole offer sheet mess and all that stuff, you can let somebody seek out a trade, find that team. Okay, you can come to terms. Hey, Canes, we found the Philadelphia Flyers want to sign me.

You two work out, you know, the value of the compensation. And it was draft picks. And again, if you like the New England Patriots style under Bill Belichick of drafting over the years and you have seeming like they're smarter and trading back and just getting a lot of picks, then you should be on board with the Canes as well. And the Patriots had the same issue of like, our first round pick is always going to be number 29 or 30, right? Like, we're not going to be able to pick the guaranteed can't miss prospect at number one or two. But what we can do is throw a lot of darts in rounds two through six or seven or whatever, and have more chances of finding that guy that isn't being seen right now as a former, as a future great player.

But he is one. Other stuff in the NHL draft, because basically until the Canes made that move about 30 or 45 minutes ago, they hadn't done anything. They didn't have a first round pick, as we discussed. There was talks that they may have been involved in trades, but here are the headlines that I, slightly casual NHL, I'm not even casual NHL fan. I am Canes fan. And because the Canes exist in the NHL, I pay slight attention to the NHL. Let's do that hockey. So the Blackhawks made a bunch of moves.

They're basically clearing the deck and starting over. And one of the dudes they traded, who every time I read his name, it looks like DeBrinda Cat to me. But how do you how do you say his name? DeBrinket? DeBrinda Cat is such a cooler name. Like, it sounds like you could be a Thundercat. If you were DeBrinda Cat, like Alex DeBrinda Cat, grab your sword, let's go, you know. Or he also sounds like he could be from like Cats the Musical, like Angelico Cats and DeBrinda Cats and I mean, it fits with either one. But sure, he'd rather be Thundercat, but it doesn't matter because his name is DeBrinket.

But he'd rather be a Thundercat. His name is DeBrinket, apparently. They traded him and somebody else away. So that was one headline I saw. Another cool headline I saw, Shane Wright, apparently supposed to be the number one pick or the long believed number one pick. Montreal Canadiens pass on him. He falls forth to the Kraken and then there was no audio on this that made it worth it.

I could show, I could give you the audio of the clip at the moment, but it doesn't give you what I want you to see. And that is Shane Wright seemingly staring down someone with a death stare as he's putting on his hat for the pick. And then, I mean, maybe it's just a good tweet, but it's like, looks like he's staring down Montreal who wanted to take him number one. And that is just a juicy bit to like, if he very much is mad at Montreal. First of all, quit trying to horn in on the hating on Montreal rivalry. Okay, Kane's already got that, Shane Wright.

Don't try and steal that from us, too. Like you took our GM and our broadcaster. Don't try and take hating Montreal from us with Shane Wright. But it looked very much like he was mad at somebody and nobody better to be mad at than the Montreal Canadiens. Instead, it was Juroz Slavkovski.

How did I do? Juroz Slavkovski? Sure. He went number one overall to the Montreal Canadiens, but even better than that was Maverick Lamoureux. Lamoureux? Maverick Lamoureux. Great name, by the way. And good timing on that one this summer.

It's all about you. It's not Lamoureux. Maverick Lamoureux, the Coyotes' 29th pick. Thank you for correcting me on that one. I had it earlier wrong. I was like, that's not what I wrote in there.

Somebody must have fixed that. He was the 29th pick by the Coyotes. And here's what the announcer sounded like as he was making his way to the stage.

I'll tell you what they reacted to after you hear it. He played lacrosse, too. The high level lacrosse.

Imagine him on the lacs field. Okay. It's all right.

Why not? Come on now. It's nighttime in Quebec. Get after it. It's almost 11. It's nighttime in Quebec. What are you laughing at down there?

It's nighttime in Quebec. That was Maverick. Give me the name again. Maverick Lamoureux's parents, Mr. and Mrs. Lamoureux, who shared what could only be described as an intimate kiss. A titillating kiss. There was tongue involved, basically.

There's no other way to put it. They had me at lacrosse. I guess you're in Montreal, French kissing. Did they call it something else? Is it French Canadian kissing there?

I guess so. But they were doing it. It was almost like they were like, oh yeah, we're probably on camera. This probably isn't just a private moment.

They quickly went into a hug. If that had been like a first kiss at a wedding, people would have been like, oh, that was a little spicy. But instead, it was in the arena. So it was much noticed and reacted to.

This is all over international television. Good stuff. Next up, getting out the gate. We had summer league debuts.

That's all the rage right now. After Chad Holmgren had his sensational debut and then maybe fell back to earth a little bit in his second game. It was Dukes, Paolo Bancaro for the Orlando Magic, who went 5 for 12 for the field, 2 for 3 from 3, 4 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 turnovers.

A pretty good debut. And I think he had 13 points at the half, so good start and hit all his free throws. I don't know who the better player is going to be, but Bancaro, obviously I watched more of him than I watched Chad Holmgren or Jabari Smith, who didn't have the greatest debut in summer league. But there was just no doubt that he was going to be a solid pro. He was already highly skilled, used his body well. And the thing that I feel like never came through on television is Bancaro is a lot taller than I feel like. He would go stand next to Mark Williams and you'd be like, he's not that much shorter than Mark Williams.

And he uses that size well and obviously did last night and we'll see more of him as the NBA summer league continues. Joining us now, I felt bad for this man because I don't think it was just us. I think everyone was clamoring for David Teel to come back from Europe so that we could get to work on whatever is happening inside the ACC headquarters because nobody knows it better than David Teel. He is a Hall of Fame basketball writer in the state of Virginia, currently writes for Richmond.com and the Richmond Times Dispatch, but he's basically covered all things Virginia sports for several decades and is one of the czars of the ACC. We were talking yesterday about a rumored report out there and one of the names. The list isn't like two or three long, but it's five to maybe 10 people of like, if one of these five to 10 people tweeted that North Carolina and Virginia are moving to a Big Ten or SEC conference, then we would begin to talk about it as a real deal. And David Teel is absolutely one of the people who fits on that list because it didn't cover one of those people. I'm still skeptical.

Let's ask him now. But let's start with David Teel. How was Europe, sir?

Oh, Europe was awesome until I got within some Wi-Fi range early in the morning of July 1st and learned that basically all hell had broken loose in my little corner of the world. Please tell me you did not cut your vacation short. I know I would have been one of the people saying, where is David Teel? We need David Teel, but please tell me people did not make you come back just to address conference realignment.

Heck no. Okay, good, good. What countries in Europe did you hit? We hit Italy, Switzerland, Germany, Austria. Excellent, and I hope you stayed as far away from conference realignment news as you could. Actually, you could probably make some bad conference realignment jokes about Europe right now, but we won't do that. We'll move to the matter at hand.

Let's start here. Again, I don't trust much in the way of big time headlines that involve Virginia sports unless you have already touched on them, specifically when it comes to the ACC. So in the 24 hours or less that you've been back, what have you heard or what are you hearing in regards specifically to the University of Virginia and Virginia Tech as they begin to assess what the new landscape is looking like in the wake of the UCLA USC moves last week? I think what Virginia and Virginia Tech are doing is a little different, if at all, from what perhaps every ACC school is doing right now, both collectively and individually, and that's exploring options.

And I don't believe anything is on or off the table. If you're an ACC school and you're looking at the numbers financially, you have to wonder, okay, if the Big Ten or the SEC was interested in us, would we then be willing to explore trying to get out, challenging the grant of rights, and perhaps making a move? David Teel joining us from Richmond.com and the Richmond Times-Dispatch. Do you think, all right, let's go a little bit broader. It does feel there's, here locally, regionally even, it feels different from the other spins of the carousel on conference realignment because it always, other than the one showdown with the Big East where it was like who might try and eat who first, it felt like the ACC has been on the survivor side, the adding to side, adding schools to them, as opposed to having schools taken away. Not that there haven't ever been rumors about what if, or if somebody came after this school or these pair of schools, but for the first time, in my mind, and sort of just feeling these things, for the first time, it feels like the ACC feels very threatened. Is that fair to say?

Yeah, I think it's more than fair. I don't think the ACC has ever been more threatened. Now, we can go back a decade to 2012 when there were rampant rumors of Clemson and Florida State bolting, and then Maryland blindsided the league by announcing its intention to bail for the Big Ten.

That, to me, was the most perilous time for the league before now. The big difference now is, though, the aforementioned grant of rights. There was none back in 2012 during that round of realignment.

There is one now, and it is a long-term one through 35-36. Yeah, we've discussed that at length this week. And I guess my next question is, do you think that the grant of rights, if not for the grant of rights, do you think that basically we might have already heard of teams making other moves? And do you think the grant of rights is strong and, I don't know how else to describe it, like punished punitive enough to schools that try and leave at least the way as written before it would be negotiated in any sort of court challenge? Do you think that's enough to at least buy the ACC some time? The way I've been explaining it is, if you look at this grant of rights and even look at the Texas and Oklahoma, I don't think they've even settled their grant of rights to get out of the Big 12, and there was only a couple years left on that.

This 14-year deal left is a whole heck of a lot, even if you get them negotiated down some. Is it fair to say that that's the thing, probably more than anything else, that at least buys the ACC some time and makes it low probability that someone's walking out of the door this summer? Is that safe to say? Yes.

I believe so. I think there are a couple different prongs here, Hayes. Number one, I think all of this is on pause until Notre Dame figures out its course. Are the Irish going to remain independent? If they do, I think there's a chance we're done for now, for now, with realignment.

If the Irish jump to either the SEC or the Big 10, then I think the other looks to counter, and all bets are off. The other thing I've been saying here, just because I grew up in North Carolina, I've never been a reporter covering the state legislature, but I've had friends who work there. I know it well.

I know the history. I know other things they've gotten involved in recently in a deep history, be it athletics or whatever. When I say something about that on Twitter, folks in Oklahoma and Kansas, they're like, yeah, ask Oklahoma State about that, and I say, look, I don't know the Oklahoma legislature and how much they do or don't get involved in colleges. Here in North Carolina, the legislature ain't afraid to step in and act like a university president whenever they darn want to, and athletics, something as big as if UNC left a conference and thought they'd be leaving NC State behind, I just find the North Carolina legislature, I think there are people that would say not so fast. In Virginia, and you'll know the history better than I will, but I'm pretty sure it was partly politics and the governor getting involved that helped Virginia Tech get into the ACC. Would it be fair to say, or what's your view on whether or not they would possibly get involved if a move from Virginia or Virginia Tech didn't involve the other one? Well, I don't think they need to be locked together in a package deal, because I think if the ACC were indeed going to splinter or was in the process of, I mean, you could see Virginia Tech moving south to the SEC and UVA perhaps going to the Big Ten, and there would be no legislative pushback on that. Now, if one was going to be left behind, might there be some intervention?

Perhaps, but I don't think that, I think it would be attempted intervention, and at the end of the day, it wouldn't stop whichever move a school was attempting to make. Interesting. David Teel joining us from Richmond.com and the Richmond Times-Dispatch. He is a U.S. Basketball Writers Association Hall of Famer. He knows the ACC about as well as anyone who's doing it, which leads to my final question. Like you said, it is sort of dangerous times. The ACC is at risk. Other than adding Notre Dame, that would be the obvious best move for any conference right now, and obviously for the ACC, maybe more than anyone. What are the steps that you think they should or maybe know that they are taking right now to better secure their position? Well, first of all, they need to secure their current membership.

That's task one for Jim Phillips, is lean into that grant of rights and make sure everyone stays put. Number two, he needs to reengage on the 12-team college football playoff that included six automatic bids to the highest rated conference champions. Because if the Big Ten and the SEC essentially try to take their ball and have a separate playoff, and ACC does not have access, man, that's going to become quickly untenable for several ACC institutions.

And then third, as you mentioned about the possibility of Notre Dame joining the league, which, you know, spoiler alert, they're not. The ACC needs to explore in concert with ESPN what can be done to enhance the TV package. Is it some kind of partnership with the Pac-12? Is it outright expansion?

I don't know. And those are numbers that the networks have to crunch. And those are numbers, Hayes, that the Big Ten and the SEC have to crunch as well. They're going to be distributing pretty soon up to $100 million annually to each member institution. So to bring in another one, that school has to be worth $100 million a year.

Is there any ACC school worth $100 million a year to either the SEC or the Big Ten? I don't know, but I have my doubts. David Thiel, check out his work. It's a great time to follow him on Twitter because you can always, if you see like a rumor out there, if you see anything, you go check David Thiel's Twitter feed and see how he's reacted to it.

If he hasn't retweeted it, responded, or said anything in agreement with whatever rumors out there, then you better be skeptical of it. Congratulations. Glad you were back safely from your trip to Europe. Congratulations on getting some time off, and I'm sorry that you got bombarded with conference realignment stuff in the middle of your vacation, sir. We always appreciate the time. Thanks, Hayes.

Be well. That we're hearing Guns N' Roses to tease your upcoming Thor God of Love and Thunder review. Is that what's coming? Yes.

I hear that Guns N' Roses makes a prominent, plays a prominent role in that movie. I don't even know. Maniscalco's like an old school movie dude.

Does he even jump into like the Marvel movies? I don't know if he's embraced him. We'll ask him that and we'll ask him some important questions about hockey. Yet another poor soul who, because they're friends with me, has to get dragged out of their vacation just to talk about this stupid thing called sports that we all love and watch and yell and cheer and cry about so much.

It's my good friend Mike Maniscalco. What's going on, my friend? Not much, Hayes, and no vacation when the NHL draft is going on.

Not yet, at least. We had to pull poor David Teal back from Europe to talk about conference realignment, so I feel a little bit less bad making you talk hockey on the day that the draft is actually going on, so that's fair. Wait a minute. What conference in Europe is going to be part of the alignment with the Pac-12 and the ACC? I missed that.

Well, the problem is I started down that route and then I was like, actually, wait a minute. Maybe conference realignment jokes in Europe are out of our poor form right now. We should just leave that.

Leave it alone. But yes, the big news of the morning was that Tony D'Angelo has been traded. Does this tell us anything about how to look at the upcoming wave of free agency? Obviously, there were a lot of players that we know are going to have to fit into a smaller window of salary cap.

We got a lot of dudes to re-sign and we weren't going to be able to re-sign all of them. Does the Tony D'Angelo trade tell us anything about what might happen with the next couple free agents? Yeah, I mean, I think so, Hayes, because when you take a look at it, not that Tony D'Angelo was a huge part of the salary cap last year.

They signed him for just a million dollars, but even at five million, which is what he got from Philadelphia season, that would have taken a big chunk out of what the Hurricanes need to do. And what everybody has to look at when you're talking about salary cap and signing players and cap space, it's not just this year, it's down the road. Who else becomes a free agent two years from now? How does giving a two-year deal to a player affect signing somebody whose deal is going to be coming up at the end of next year and how you need to fit them in? So those are all questions that will get answered as this off-season moves along. And I mean, we haven't even reached the opening of free agency, which is July 13th, or as a lot of people around the league like to call it, overspending frenzy. But we'll get to see what happens.

This organization now, Hayes, they don't do anything without running all of the permutations of this and making sure that if this happens, what is plan A, B, and C to back it up. So I think it's, again, it's early, but when you take a look at what the Canes get in return, you get three picks for a player who you signed for a million dollars last year, who, by the way, and I know the narratives and the storylines and everything coming into it. But with the Hurricanes in the locker room, he was a model teammate. The players loved him. And then the production they got on the ice when people had the questions of how are you going to replace the guy who quarterbacked your number one power play for those three seasons and Dougie Hamilton. Well, he answered those questions by his play on the ice. He didn't, I know that people can point to some outbursts here or there in the playoffs, but he was an emotional player.

You knew that coming into it, but there was none of the off the ice stuff that came with it. His time with Carolina, I think it was exactly what both parties needed. The Hurricanes needed a right shot defenseman who could step in and quarterback the power play. And he did that. And Tony D'Angelo needed a team where he could go and put together a season where there was no tumultuous things away from the ice. And that's exactly what happened here. I wish the guy nothing but the best in Philly.

He's from that area. So we'll see how that fits out. So now I've given you an even super long answer to this, but I hopefully have covered all of the Tony D'Angelo trade base right now. You mostly have, but actually do have one follow up, and I totally agree with you.

It's why I didn't even ask about it. I think anybody who's looking to make something about it, anything other than a business and hockey move is trying to confirm something else that they already believed, right? It was a symbiotic relationship between the two, and I think it worked out beautifully. I do question, though, because he seemed to do so well, at least numbers wise. You know, Dougie Hamilton was a dude who played on the defense because you put him with Jacob Slavin, who's obviously a superb defender, and you get numbers out of Slavin.

The same thing kind of works with D'Angelo. You get numbers from one guy and the lockdown defender from the other guy, hope to get some defense out of the offense guy and some offense out of the defense guy, right? But the fact that they were okay with it, and again, I know decisions are having to be made. They're having to look at a value on every single one of these guys, and for some, if the numbers getting too high, they got to make a decision, right?

I totally get it. But does it say anything about the suggestion of their strategy on the ice if they seem okay letting a guy go that did seem to fit so well from that perspective of giving you points from that top line defenseman? Yeah, I think it points to that they either feel that they have replacements either in the organization somewhere or they feel that there's someone who the way that their system is set up, hey, they can go out and find somebody who can sit and continue to do what. Now, I don't think 100% because of the skill sets that Dougie Hamilton and Tony D'Angelo have offensively as a defenseman that you can just plug anyone into that position. You have to have those those natural abilities that the attributes that those guys brought to the ice, but I think that the canes have been able to say, well, we can recognize what player we need. And because of the core that we have around it in particular on the blue line, we can plug in a player and just let them be themselves because, you know, Tony D'Angelo had a monster season. Everybody forgets us with the New York Rangers before he came to Carolina.

And of course, it was more of the what happened why that made him leave New York. You know, he had a big campaign with the Rangers before everything went sideways with New York and then he came here and he duplicated that season. In fact, you can make the point that he had a better season because he was a little bit better points per game with Carolina. But I think it speaks to what the canes feel, the way they play, if they can identify and find a player of similar skill that they can come in here and continue to put those numbers in. So to back up what your assessment is, yeah, I think you're right. I think that it points to the canes, what they believe, the way that they play the game. They can find a defenseman, they can find players to come in and pick up that slack and hopefully keep the ball rolling for this club, which is what their ultimate goal now is to win a Stanley Cup. And sorry for this, like a third question almost on the same topic, but you're doing a good well of giving me a lot of information.

I'm like a fan and you're just making me a smarter fan. But this one you give a quick answer to. Do you think the other guy that plays on the top line defense with Jacob Slavin, is somebody already on the roster or somebody that they hope to find? I wish I could give you a definitive answer.

I think the way this organization works, if they don't find him outside of the organization, they believe that there would be somebody in the organization who can fill that bill. So let me give you the one ambiguous answer to that question. Alright, that's fair enough. Rod Rendon Moore was on here yesterday.

He was very great with his time and just I love how open and nonchalant he is about everything. He told me he didn't like the schedule, too much time on the road, not playing games. And he told me that basically, obviously they try and evaluate like everybody else.

They're running numbers, they're crunching numbers. But he kind of said, look, you don't really know which fourth round pick is going to become the Jacob Slavin and which one is it going to make it to the NHL. So our philosophy is kind of amass these, since we're not picking at the top of the first round, which is a good thing because you're a good team, let's amass as many of these middle round picks as we can. And it's like darts at the dartboard or like lottery picks, right?

I mean, lottery tickets, not lottery picks. How do you, that being the case, and again, that they aren't actually just picking anyone and then hoping they turn out good, they're still evaluating. How do you evaluate these guys that we take in the third or fourth round that obviously aren't expected to be starters on the team next year, but very well could be guys that develop in three or four years or an Adam Fox or Jacob Slavin? I trust the people who make these picks, that they know what they're doing because no offense Hayes, I wasn't watching a lot of NHL hockey this past season. That's what Darren York assistant general manager, what his job is.

I don't know if there's a human being who watches more hockey and more amateur hockey than Darren York and either being there in person or, or watching it on his laptop, wherever he is in the world. But I look at it when you talk about a massive text and what you do with the draft darts at the dartboard is a great analogy. I also like to use the poker analogy. The more chips that I have means the more things that I can influence what other other players at the table have to do. Now, it's great when you have, you know, the thousand dollar chip, but if I have, you know, 10 or 20 $200 chips, well, I can move those around the board and identify needs and, but what the canes are in a great position with the draft.

Now Hayes is in these middle rounds. You take a chance on a guy who has offensive upside, who might be a great skater might be maybe not the biggest guy in the world, but you, you look at his ability and you're trying to forecast the way that the league is trending and where it's going to go. So you can take chances on these players. It's funny. I laugh and I don't know why I do it, but after picks are made, people immediately say, Oh, great.

I'm glad, I'm glad you're excited about it. But my goodness, you don't know there. I'm sure that there were people that when the New York Rangers took Henrik Lundquist said, why did we take a goalie with this pick the mid to later rounds and you just let it play off. But again, for me, you know, you can use poker chips, you can use lottery tickets, the more numbers that you have, the more scratch offs that you have, the better odds are that you're going to hit something that something's going to pay off that you get a Brett Pesci, you get a Jacob slave and, and they're able to come in and fit in your team and be one of those players that you can build around because, you know, you, you are banking on the first rounders to be NHL players and they get certainly a lot more leeway to make it in the NHL. But if you can find three or four players that you draft in those middle rounds, that's what what builds championship teams because you have these players that all right, maybe he stays on our team, maybe we trade him for an asset that makes your team better later on down the line. So that's kind of my philosophy.

And if you if you've ever played poker, when you can, you can force somebody into doing something because they need some chips, or you know, they're against it, it's usually good for you. And that's what this organization in particular, the last four or five drafts have been able to do. Mike Maniscalco, Cane's reporter for Valley Sports, he is the man and any rumors that you read about him moving to the Big Ten on swim swim. I'm here to refute that is not he's not moving to the Big Ten is not going anywhere. Appreciate did you did you even get the swim swim like you're not in radio now. So like maybe you miss these stupid jokes that we have to make because we're following conference realignment. But yes, that's swim swim is the latest place that you need to change just like back in the day when you were doing radio and it was, you know, Orange Bloods and the dude of West Virginia. Yeah, now we got swimming aficionados trying to break the conference realignment is so Hey, you know, you go wherever the leads take you Hayes, just like I'm going to have to go watch Love and Thunder because let's face it, if you've got Guns and Roses in it, and I've already gone down the Thor series so far, I might as well see how Jane Foster becomes the mighty Thor. There we go. There aren't a lot of dudes who would leave a ACC tournament game after midnight to go call a Carolina Hurricanes game and then come back at 2 a.m. and be like hand me a beer because I'm still partying with the crowd and then let's do the ACC tournament tomorrow.

Mike Maniscalco is a true unicorn in the hockey world. We appreciate the time. Hope you do get some vacation this summer because we're going to put you back to work on another great cane season in the fall, man. Thank you. Can't wait to do it. Hey, thanks for having me. This is the Adam Gold show.