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Let's partner for all of it. Learn more at edwardjones.com. Good morning. I'm Jane Pauley, and this is Sunday Morning Summertime. And the living is supposed to be easy. So why do so many of us seem to be in a nasty mood from our national politics to the lines at fast food joints and points in between? Incivility and downright rudeness appear to be on the rise. A phenomenon for Martha Teichner to consider in our cover story.
Oh, is that a problem? All right, get the hell out of here, folks. Get them out.
Out. Yes, our public discourse does seem to have become a blood sport. President Trump encourages incivility. The appropriate response to that is not incivility on the other side.
I don't know that you can demand civility from people that you're ruling in an entirely uncivil way. Ahead this Sunday morning, a civil discussion about incivility. Our summer song this morning is from Billy Joel, who's celebrating his 100th performance on one of the nation's most celebrated stages. With Anthony Mason, we have a front row seat. Five years ago, Madison Square Garden offered Billy Joel a monthly residency in the legendary arena. How did you feel about that?
Slattered, flabbergasted. This past week, the piano man played his 100th sold out gig at the garden. And Bruce Springsteen showed up to pay his respect.
Billy Joel ahead on Sunday morning. We continue our 50th anniversary look at that most pivotal of years, 1968, with a story from David Pogue, all about the birth of something very small that plays a very big role in our lives. In 1968, Gordon Moore dropped by Bob Noyce's house. And on July 18th, 1968, Intel was incorporated. Their invention was the silicon microprocessor, the computer chip that created our modern technological world. So you think that Noyce and Moore's place in the pantheon is deserved?
Uh, many, many times over. Coming up on Sunday morning, I'll take you Inside Intel. Now on Broadway, the music of a one-of-a-kind band with remarkable staying power. They'll be talking with Tracy Smith. The Go-Go's are arguably the most successful all-female band in history, thanks to talent and sheer will. What did you dream of in those early days? I remember running down the stairwell saying, we're going to be rich and famous one day. How the Go-Go's got the beat and kept it going ahead on Sunday morning.
We'll have those stories and more just ahead. Just how rude has modern life become? And how much is the tone of our politics to blame?
Our cover story is reported by Martha Teichner. Does it sometimes seem as if our politics has us all backed into our ideological corners? Does it seem as if insults and name calling I call them Little Marco, Little Marco. Crooked Hillary Clinton have taken the place of civil dialogue that incivility has gone viral. You should not be wearing that in the United States of America.
This is what I'm wearing, you guys. Whether it's coming from the President of the United States. We have a representative in Congress who they say was here a long time ago.
They call her Pocahontas. Or somebody in a restaurant. You may be disturbed by it all. But should you be alarmed? Even that's a touchy subject. I think the country is in crisis. New York Times columnist Michelle Goldberg recently wrote that it's less a result of a breakdown in civility than a breakdown of democracy. I think the demand for civility can be used as a tool of oppression when it only goes in one direction. When you demand civility from the ruled, but you don't demand civility from the rulers. An unapologetic liberal, Goldberg thinks it's just fine that presidential spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders was not welcome at the Red Hen restaurant.
I was asked to leave because I work for President Trump. We are allowed to disagree, but we should be able to do so freely and without fear of harm. And Goldberg thinks it's just fine that California Democrat Congresswoman Maxine Waters has called for confrontations. This shows to me this kind of surreal loop of disinformation that we're in. Trump then says Maxine Waters has basically told people to attack members of my administration.
She should be careful what she wishes for. If there is any threat of violence there, it's clearly coming from Donald Trump. And it wouldn't be the only time that Donald Trump has threatened, has kind of outright threatened protesters.
I love the old days. You know what they used to do to guys like that when they were in a place like this? They'd be carried out on a stretcher, folks. So we're missing the point by talking about manners and civility. It's not a crisis that members of this administration can't go to a restaurant without being heckled. It's a crisis that those hecklers don't have any other way to reach them. Civility is a kind of basis for dialogue. It's hard to have dialogue without civility. If people are pushing and shoving and screaming and harassing, if Maxine Waters gets her way.
Constitutional lawyer Alan Dershowitz, a lifelong Democrat, caused a bit of a kerfuffle after complaining about being shunned by his Martha's Vineyard neighbors for defending President Donald Trump's civil liberties, an argument he makes in his new book. I don't care about being shunned. I don't care about not being invited to parties.
What I care about is the big issue of trying to silence Americans who have a right to vote. Who have a different point of view. President Trump encourages incivility by his name-quality, by his mocking of people. The appropriate response to that is not incivility on the other side.
What is it? Michelle Obama put it very well when she said, When they go low, we go high. Dershowitz argues that nothing about the current political climate justifies incivility.
I'm nearly 80 years old. I've lived through many times in every era, people say, in these times, this is special. In these times, they're detaining Japanese-Americans in detention centers. In these times, there's segregation. If we allowed that to operate, the in these times approach, everything would be in these times. And we would live in a society of incivility.
There is nothing special about these times. So what is it that we're actually seeing? Well, I think of it as a revolution in manners, but maybe a better way to describe it is a gerrymandering of the boundaries of polite society. Keith Bybee is a professor at the Syracuse University College of Law and author of How Civility Works. Any period in American history where there's been intense political conflict, you can find severe breaches of etiquette.
If you think it's bad today, consider the incident in 1856, when pro-slavery South Carolina Congressman Preston Brooks went into the Senate and beat Massachusetts Senator Charles Sumner, an ardent abolitionist, with his cane, nearly killing him. Now consider the civil rights movement more than a century later. The civil rights movement, in a fundamental way, led to the revision of our understanding of what constitutes appropriate behavior and the baseline of respect. The peaceful protests, often met with violent pushback, upended notions of civility and incivility as means to an end, as good or bad. Martin Luther King today is praised for a philosophy of nonviolence. And yet, at the time, what was considered civil disobedience, civil protest, was not considered civil at all.
No, it was experienced by a number of people at the time as a gross incivility. I would characterize myself as a mainline Republican. Representative Steve Stivers. And I'm a strong staunch Democrat. And Representative Joyce Beatty are members of Congress from the Columbus, Ohio area.
Fourteen months ago now, I had a gentleman call and threaten to kill not just me, my wife and my, at that time, seven-year-old daughter. It really made me think about, gee, the climate out there is driving folks across our country to the extremes. Every day we turn on TV and with social media, it has just been so prolific that it's in your face with Twitter and Instagram and all the things that are being said.
But our children are listening to this. Beatty and Stivers are longtime friends, but on many issues, polar opposites politically. In January, they formed the Civility and Respect Caucus, pairing congressional Democrats and Republicans, 30 so far, to promote civility across the aisle and among high school students in each other's districts. The students are asked to take a civility pledge. So are they ever saying, okay, we can take a civility pledge.
What about you guys in Congress? I don't appreciate what was originally said being changed. I don't give a damn what you appreciate, Agent Strong. Or is it that's nice, that's sweet, but look around?
Well, Martha, a trip of a thousand miles begins with the first step. Does it all sound a little Pollyanna-ish? Their take?
So what? This Civility and Respect Caucus will never cure incivility. What we hope to do is sensitize people to it. As long as I can add fresh breath to this Congress, I will never concede that nice people finish last.
So does that mean there's hope? The very fact that we have people seeking to change civility, that's an expression of civility's value. True crisis civility is none of us cared.
If we all stopped caring about what counts as appropriate behavior and civility is not in crisis, it's dead. And now a page from our Sunday morning almanac, July 22, 1933, 85 years ago today, the day aviator Wiley Post made history. It was a time of heroes. Aviation was very much an adventure. For that was the day he arrived in New York in his plane, the Winnie Mae, after completing the world's first solo round-the-world flight, circling the globe in seven days, 18 hours and 49 minutes, making just 11 stops along the way. New York City turned out en masse to cheer America's newest idol, showering tons of confetti, miles of ticker tape, on his triumphal procession through the skyscraper canyon. A Texas native who lost an eye while working in an oil field, Wiley Post set many other aviation records as well.
So long, I'll see you in about six days. He was the first to pilot a plane at an altitude of 50,000 feet and the first to get a boost from what was back then a relatively unknown band of air currents called the jet stream. To survive at that altitude, he wore the very first pressurized aviation suit. But Post's daring due caught up with him in 1935, when he crashed an experimental plane while on a journey through Alaska, killing both himself and his world-famous passenger, the comic Will Rogers.
Wiley Post was just 36. His historic plane, the Winnie Mae, is now in the collection of the National Air and Space Station Air and Space Museum in Washington. It's music from the Go-Go's, the all female band that's played just about everywhere. Now, it's finally on Broadway with Tracey Smith. We catch their act. Here it is. Take it in.
Did you look out here? It's your Broadway theater. The Go-Go's, the barrier breaking 1980s hit makers have stood on a lot of stages, but never this one. Barbara was on this stage too. Barbara who?
Barbara Streisand, remember her? They're in Streisand territory because the Go-Go's phenomenon has come to Broadway. They actually don't appear in the new musical comedy, Head Over Heels.
But some years ago, a Broadway producer thought it'd be a great idea to artfully insert Go-Go's songs into an Elizabethan era story about a royal family and a prophecy that could spell their doom. And just to clarify, this is not your life story. No, it's not our life story.
Thank you for clarifying that. We were not born in the 1580s. Even though sometimes we might feel like it. Even though sometimes we might feel like it. They may feel that way because they've done this walk from the dressing room to the stage hundreds, maybe thousands of times. We're all really good at doing this. We are really, really good at being Go-Go's. And on and off for 40 years now, these women get together to show why the Go-Go's have been called one of the most successful all-female bands in the history of rock and roll. When you're up on stage looking out at the audience, what do you see?
Grandparents, parents, kids. What's that like? It's thrilling, you know, that our music has that kind of appeal. That's not the way it began in 1978. When Belinda Carlisle and Jane Weedlin decided somewhat naively to form a group. We came from the punk rock scene in LA where anything went and you could learn as you went along and we had no idea how to play our instruments or do anything.
We were absolutely rotten when we started. Here's what they sounded like in an early rehearsal. Rough, maybe, but enough to attract other members who'd actually played music before. Drummer Gina Shock, who missed our interview because of surgery. Bassist Kathy Valentine and guitarist Charlotte Caffee.
You were trained in classical piano. Yeah, and so I was in awe, I was a little scared of them, but it was kind of exciting. They were the cool girls that were punky and I was kind of more like, you know, reserved and straight kind of.
It's hard to imagine now, but in their early days the Go-Go's each made about $40 a week. How many proverbial doors were slammed in your faces? Every door.
Every door. All the record executives were telling you. Well, they wouldn't sign us because we were women or girls, we were girls then. But the girls did make it happen. We Got the Beat became the Go-Go's first hit in England and then in the United States. Like almost all of their music, it was written, arranged and performed by all women. What did that do to have it be all female?
I think it emboldened us. I mean, especially the five of us, we've always said like we're this five-headed monster when we're together. It's like this ball of energy that can be a force for good or a force for evil. Truth is, underneath all the fun and fizz was something a little more serious. You can hear it in Our Lips Are Sealed. Now that song in particular has a very, it's upbeat, but if you listen to the lyrics. Yeah, that's kind of a Go-Go trademark that we always make an effort not to make something like 100% happy or 100% sad. We like to mix things together to keep things more interesting. That kind of dark against happiness, you know, it's really, I love it.
And the same goes for their 1982 hit Vacation. The video seems happy-go-lucky until you look a little closer. That video, that was like a 14-hour shoot and we were so bored and miserable that we all started drinking and they filmed the close-up, you know, to make, to do something different.
No, you know, with this part in the video where it looks like we're on the skis and we were so drunk by then, if you like, look at her eyes rolling. And while they all seemed chummy at this People magazine photo shoot a few weeks ago, the band's history hasn't been so happy-go-lucky either. Medical problems, drug and alcohol abuse, and several knock-down drag-out breakups. Through the past, we've always keep hurting each other and then keep forgiving each other and then healing and then trying to grow and that's how I feel that we all are at this point.
Just think, a group of sisters who can be extremely close, but at the same time light-years apart. There's been times we were in the dressing room throwing stuff at each other. You guys literally throwing stuff at each other.
Yeah, a couple of times. I think somebody got hit once, you know. There's a lot of conflicting energy, but somehow out of all of that, something stays very intact and still works very well.
There's always a little eye in the hurricane that stays really nice, you know, and special. They do get along well enough to still play as a band. Recently, to the surprise of the audience, the Go-Go's performed on stage with the Head Over Heels cast.
Hey! While they can cross Broadway off their bucket list, the Go-Go's still have one more mountain to climb. A lot of your fans think that there's a grave injustice that you guys are not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. You can't take away the fact that we were the very first successful all-female band who wrote all their own songs and played all their own instruments. Hall of Fame honors or not, when you're a Go-Go, it just doesn't seem right to stop. So in 10 years, 15 years, if the right opportunity comes along, the Go-Go's could be on stage again together. All the record companies will say, there's never been an all-grandmother band before. There you go, and there's your ticket to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Okay, that's it. Before there were podcasts, there was television. Remember, see what's new under the sun every Sunday morning. For some of us, the very mention of the year 1968 conjures up a lot of not-so-great memories.
Leave it to our tech-savvy David Pogue to find one very small exception. In many ways, 1968 is famous for its tragedies, assassinations, conflicts, and war. But 1968 also gave birth to something amazing, the era of fast, cheap, ubiquitous electronics. Because 50 years ago, this past week, two middle-aged engineers quit their jobs to start a new company called Intel. In 1968, Gordon Moore dropped by Bob Noyce's house.
Bob was mowing the lawn. They were discussing the state of their current jobs, as well as the possibility of a new industry. Elizabeth Jones is Intel's archivist. She runs the Intel Museum in Santa Clara, California. And apparently Bob said, yeah, that's a good idea.
He did. And on July 18th, 1968, Intel was incorporated. At his previous company, Fairchild Semiconductor, Noyce had co-invented the integrated circuit, a way to etch all the circuits in that era's room-sized computers onto a tiny slice of silicon. We have Intel's first product. It's a memory chip called the 3101. OK, and before that, how did they make memory? It's this larger device up on top called core memory. Smaller also meant faster and easier to make. This plant near Portland, Oregon, one of Intel's oldest, is what a chip factory looks like today.
No TV crew has ever been allowed inside before. Do you have this in a khaki? No, I'm sorry. Aisha Evans, Intel's chief strategy officer, showed me how to put on the so-called bunny suit.
That's her on the left. I did take a thorough shower this morning. Why was all this necessary? We want maximum purity as the material is being assembled. Each shiny round sheet of silicon fits about 500 identical chips, which will be cut apart and installed into the microprocessors, the electronic brains, that control just about everything in our lives with an on switch. Each chip is etched within possibly small channels of circuitry, only 10 millionths of an inch wide. And so who gets to etch those tiny, is it some little Swiss watchmaker with a magnifying glass? Robots. So how would you say the making of silicon chips has changed in 50 years?
You know what? The basic principles and fundamentals haven't changed at all. Just a lot more automation, a lot more complexity, and also more layers.
I see. And that's to get more circuitry into less space. That's exactly right. Getting more circuitry into less space is the whole point of Moore's law. That's Gordon Moore's prediction way back in 1965 that we'd be able to double the amount of circuitry, meaning power and memory, that can be crammed onto a chip about every year and a half. He's basically been right for all 50 years. Now, you know that Moore's law is actually not a law of physics. It's the result of tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people making ongoing improvements in reducing the width of these lines that are printed on the integrated circuits. John Doerr started working at Intel in 1974. Today, as chairman of Kleiner Perkins, he's one of the world's most successful venture capitalists. Yeah, someone once said if this applied to automobiles today, cars would cost a few pennies, they'd get thousands of miles per gallon, and we wouldn't even remember where we parked them.
We'd just leave them there again and get another one. In the beginning, Intel made computer memory, chips for storing information. But things really took off in 1971 when Bob Noyce invented microprocessors, that is, chips that could process information. And then, with this tool for modern times, IBM came along. IBM chose to base its personal computer on Intel's architecture. And had IBM chose some other company's chip, Intel probably wouldn't be here today. The makeup of the company started with the founders, and they said these simple words back 50 years ago, don't be encumbered by the past, go and do something wonderful. Bob Swan is Intel's interim CEO. And there's another saying associated with this company, which is only the paranoid survive. We're always looking, always worried, always curious, who's doing something else? And if we're not worried about them, they will catch up to us.
It hasn't all been smooth sailing. The company famously missed the boat on making the processors for smartphones like the iPhone. Then, as PC sales began to slip, Intel had to lay off thousands of workers over the years. But today, Intel says it's determined to be ready for whatever comes next. The company is investing in self-driving cars, artificial intelligence, and other futuristic tech. Like drones.
That's Anil Nanduri's division. His team specializes in making elaborate, automated flying light shows, like this one at the Winter Olympics in South Korea. What we're seeing is hundreds or thousands of this actual drone, right? This is the exact drone that flew at the Olympics in Pyeongchang. There's no cameras or anything else.
It only has an LED light. A week ago, in honor of Intel's big birthday, his team set a Guinness World Record over 2,000 drones flying simultaneously, forming these images in the night sky. And every single one of them contains a tiny rectangle of etched silicon, like the ones designed by Bob Noyce and Gordon Moore half a century ago. Baseball players all have their loyal fans. Not so much the umpires.
With the exception of a young man or a Steve Hartman has seen in action. In the world of minor league baseball, where most young fans want nothing more than to meet a real player, this kid, 10-year-old Vincent Steele, stands alone. Vincent idolizes umpires.
It's something that we're not really used to, you know, so every fan we can get is a plus. You know, last night, there was a time somebody said, put the kid in. Vincent is such a fan of umpires. Every game, he becomes one. He stands in the front row here at the Carolina Mudcats Stadium near Raleigh, copying their calls and mimicking their moves.
He gets so into character, it's hard not to play along. For example, on this day, the manager even came over to him to report a lineup change. Initially, we thought maybe it was like a little bit of a phase type of thing. These are his parents.
It's a two-year phase at this point. And they say it's not just on game days. It's virtually every day. At home, he stands in front of the TV and does the same routine. He sleeps next to baseballs autographed by umpires. He even visited an umpire school, where he learned the proper way to call a strike, which apparently isn't to say strike. What umpires say? Hoyt. Why do they say Hoyt?
That's what they all do. What is out? Out. OK. Ball is? Ball.
Strike is? I think he wanted to throw me out of this interview. Hoyt.
Hoyt, this is the deal. He's a great kid, which may be part of the reason he's attracted to the profession. It's leadership, rule following, fairness.
All those qualities are kind of who he is. Obviously, Vincent would like to grow up to be an umpire someday. But even if he doesn't, hopefully, he will retain the values cherished by referees of all ages. Perished by referees of all stripes. And hopefully, he will keep his room just as clean as his imaginary home plate.
Coming soon, Mobituaries, a podcast on matters of death and life from Mo Rocca. It's a summer song from Billy Joel, who's been entertaining audiences for more than 40 summers now. For him, getting to the stage is half the fun, as he demonstrates for our Anthony Mason. It used to be a tennis court. On the back lawn of his estate on Oyster Bay, Long Island, Billy Joel saw a chance to solve a transportation problem. Because I didn't play tennis. And there was an H in the middle of the tennis court.
And I said, helipad. That's how he arrived in Manhattan this past Wednesday with his wife, Alexis, for his landmark 100th concert at Madison Square Garden. It's nine o'clock on a Saturday.
He sold out every show, more than 2 million tickets. You're okay with me these days. Got a good job, I got a good office, I got a new wife, I got a new life, and the family is fine. What does it say to you, personally, that you're playing your 100th show here? It's a crazy life. I remember the first night I played here in 1978.
This was like the pinnacle of my career. God, I'm headlining at Madison Square Garden. 40 years ago, in December of 1978, Joel played his first gigs at the Garden. He'd broken out the year before with his fifth album, The Stranger. For a kid from Long Island, what did it mean to be here in 1978? Well, this is the Ark of the Covenant.
This is the High Holy of Holies. Mr. Joel's concert, the New York Times Review read, reaffirmed his stature as a craftsman-like pop composer. But he falls short of the committed passion of great rock. Off and on over the years, you've been beaten up by some critics. A lot of that beating up was self-induced because I went to war with these guys. If I didn't agree with something they wrote, I would call them out on stage. That doesn't help things. Why did you go to war with them?
Because they were wrong. I am the entertainer, and I know just where I stand, and I'll serenade her. His Garden gigs have proven him right. Today I am the champion, I may have won your hearts...
Even some of his songs that weren't big hits in the beginning have become standards. The first song of the piano man... Piano man, we do every night. You can't do a show without doing piano man, but the audience is singing along. They're doing a lot of the work. Yeah, so when I'm doing the song, I'm not actually thinking about what I'm doing. I'm listening to the audience singing, you know, going, huh, not bad, you know?
Joel began playing The Garden monthly in January of 2014. When you started it, you never thought it was going to last this long, did you? No, no, they presented it to me like, okay, you're going to do a residency, but what they really meant, you're going to be a franchise, like a sports team. How did you feel about that? I flabbergasted. I was like, oh, I'm going to be a franchise.
I'm going to be a sports team. How did you feel about that? I flabbergasted. He's sold out 54 straight shows, joined almost every month by special guests, Sting, Paul Simon and Miley Cyrus, Tony Bennett. We're in a New York state of mind.
And for his 100th show, Bruce. Of the shows you've played at The Garden, are there any particularly memorable moments for you? I mean, particularly in this residency? I remember the nights that my daughter Della was there, you know, knowing that she was dancing around. And this past year or so, there was the night I wore the Star of David after the Charlottesville incident.
You don't usually get political in shows. No, I don't think it's right for me to get up on a soapbox because that's not why people are there. But you had to do something that night. I had to do something that night. The president said there's some good people on, you know, that did that. No, Nazis aren't good people.
It really enraged me, actually. My old man, his family got wiped out. They were slaughtered in Auschwitz. Him and his parents were able to get out. But then he was in the US Army during the war and fought with Patton and was shot out by Nazis. But my family suffered.
And I think I actually have a right to do that. At 69, Joel is playing songs he wrote seemingly a lifetime ago. Do they sound different to you now? Some of them age better than others. Yeah. They're like my kids. Yeah. Some grew up to be doctors and lawyers and any of the chiefs.
Some of them a couple of bums, you know? His first huge hit, the Grammy-winning Just the Way You Are, is not one of the singer's favorites. It's a song I wrote for my first ex-wife. And it was a gift. And when I showed it to her, she said, does that mean I get the publishing too?
And it kind of took the shine off the thing. Joel was also annoyed when the sheet music was first published. The first publishing that they did of it was the wrong chords. I'll show you.
Can I move with this thing? Okay. The original chords are like this. That's a suspension. And these guys play it like this. It drives me frickin' nuts. It's just stupid.
So I got to go over and I got to correct the guy. No, no, no, no, no. He wrote 33 top 40 hits. Then, after his River of Dreams album in 1993, Joel suddenly stopped. What was the main reason you stopped writing songs?
I couldn't be as good as I wanted to. It was driving me crazy. It was wrecking my personal life too. Just not being able to be satisfied.
And drinking became a problem because of that. To try to drown my frustration with it. If you looked at what you'd written, you'd written some great songs. I could look at 25% of what I wrote and throw it out and not miss it at all. But I bet you most artists would say the same thing. Probably.
But that's what drives good art. In the end, that kind of wore you down? Well, I wanted a personal life.
You know, I'd been married and divorced a couple of times. And I said, what are you going to be content with yourself? There was a quote from Neil Diamond. He said, I've forgiven myself for not being Beethoven. And I read that quote and I said, that's my problem. I have not forgiven myself for not being Beethoven. And I still to this day haven't.
But Beethoven never sold out the garden 100 times after 100 shows. Does this feel kind of like your living room? Yeah, it does. Yeah, it's our office. Hey, I see everybody. You know, we're all in our little cubicles.
And then that's our office. And when Billy Joel's name was hoisted on a banner into the garden rafters Wednesday with those three imposing digits, even the piano man was impressed. This is beyond my wildest expectations.
I want to thank you all for coming to our shows. Is it a big deal for you? Yeah, yeah, 100. I'm still trying to get my head around it. So it looks like there's no end to this thing.
Does that concern you? I may be doing it for the rest of my natural life. I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening.
And please join us again next Sunday morning. This is The Takeout with Major Garrett. This week, Steven Law, ally of Mitch McConnell and one of Washington's biggest midterm money men. List for me the two Senate races where you think Republicans have the best chance of taking a Democratic seat away. Nevada, New Hampshire. Not Georgia. Well, Georgia's right up there, but New Hampshire is a surprise. In New Hampshire, people really just kind of don't like Maggie Hassan. For more from this week's conversation, follow The Takeout with Major Garrett on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
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