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Visit trex.com to order samples. Good morning. Jane Pauley is a little under the weather.
I'm Mo Rocca and this is Sunday Morning. This month marks the 50th anniversary of the riot at New York's Stonewall Inn, a celebrated milestone in the campaign for gay rights. Not so well known are the beginnings of that struggle and the man many view as the grandfather of the movement for equality.
We'll tell you all about him in our cover story. In 1957, when Frank Kameny was fired from the federal government for being gay, he did not go quietly. Whenever I see footage of Frank Kameny and just a handful of others in 1965 picketing outside the White House, it's just so courageous. Frank wouldn't say that. Frank would just say it was the right thing to do. Ahead on Sunday morning, the grandfather of gay rights. Our Sunday profile this morning is of that most well connected of actors, Kevin Bacon.
Lee Cowan will do the honors. In his 40 years in the public eye, there are few things Kevin Bacon hasn't been asked, especially about that movie. So when Footloose came along, did you know that you weren't sort of their first choice at the time? I wasn't their first choice.
The six degrees and more of Kevin Bacon later on Sunday morning. The D-Day plus 75 ceremonies this past week struck a chord for anyone with a parent or grandparent who served in World War II. That may be particularly true for the grandson of commanding officer General Dwight D. Eisenhower.
He talks with our David Martin. On D-Day, Ike sent warriors into battle despite warnings casualties could reach 80 percent. This was a landing that had to succeed. If you're a German soldier, this is the landing that has to fail. This was a huge fight.
This is not Germany giving up. Ahead on Sunday morning, David Eisenhower remembers his grandfather's war. Chip Reid has a question or two for CNN's Jim Acosta.
Faith Sallee talks with Broadway and screen actor Andrew Rannells. We'll remember New Orleans's own Dr. John. And more all coming up when our Sunday morning podcast continues. Marchers at yesterday's Capitol Pride March in Washington owe much to one man you might call the grandfather of the gay rights movement.
Frank Kameny stepped out into the open in a fearful time when most gay people lived in the shadows. As a new documentary in theaters this weekend makes clear. So there's a list of State Department employees. One of them, Paul Geer, he worked in Rome, confessed July 3, 1953. Additional interviews scheduled for purposes of developing information concerning others, right? They wanted Paul to tell about other people. That was the technique that was used by the government.
Grab one person and then get that person to inform on other people. You may have heard of the Red Scare of the 1950s, the fear stoked by Republican Senator Joseph McCarthy that communists had infested the federal government. But a panic of a different shade must not be handling top secret material led to a much wider purge of gay employees that long outlasted McCarthy's tenure.
The pervert is easy prey to the blackmailer. David K. Johnson is the author of the definitive history of what's come to be known as the Lavender Scare. What is the Lavender Scare? I describe it as a fear, right? A fear that that permeated Cold War political culture. This fear that the gay people were a threat to national security, that they had infiltrated the federal government and that they needed to be systematically removed from government service.
The rooting out of homosexual employees became official policy with an executive order signed by newly elected President Dwight D. Eisenhower in 1953. This is a guy who understood firsthand a real threat. He's a Supreme Allied commander in World War II, so you would think he would understand a real threat. Well, I think he did. I think he probably didn't see this as a real threat, but he saw that it won elections. That it was expedient politically. It was part of their campaign, right? Let's clean house.
Let's get rid of all these people. Josh Howard, formerly of CBS News, has produced and directed a new documentary, soon to air on PBS, about the Lavender Scare. He says there's a good reason you probably don't know about this chapter in history. The Lavender Scare happened in private. The people who were being fired didn't want to tell their closest friends and relatives why they had been fired because they wanted to stay in the closet. If you were found out to be gay in those years, your life was essentially over. You were shunned by society.
You were shunned in the workplace. It's the reason people were in the closet in the 1950s. Even in private homes, gay people were not safe from investigators. At Christmas time, some friends were having a party. Somebody must have tipped them off that there was a party where gay people were going to be. Bob Cantilian, a Navy serviceman, was told to report to the police station for interrogation. I freely admitted that I was gay, and then they said, we also want five names of other people you know. So I searched my mind and I gave them the names of five people I thought would be least hurt. My impression was that after I named the five names, they'd let me go and nothing else would happen after that.
But then we were all discharged. Was there any due process? I mean, could you call a lawyer?
You could not bring in an attorney. No, it wasn't allowed. You were just forced to answer yes or no, to confess or?
Right. The security officials boasted that gay people very easily confessed and told the truth. What they don't talk about is the fact that they essentially blackmailed people. They threatened to tell their families. So a lot of gay people quietly resigned.
Johnson estimates that between five and ten thousand people were fired or resigned. And we'll never know how many didn't pursue their dreams for fear of exposure. Navy Captain Joan Cassidy came from a family of proud veterans. She had a shot at becoming the first female admiral. I couldn't do it. I just couldn't do it. It was too big a chance to take. And so I had to give up the possibility of admiral because I was gay and because I wasn't sure I could hide it well enough. Other stories ended in the worst possible way. Drew Ferentz, the son of immigrants, spoke five languages and was serving in the U.S. Embassy in Paris when investigators confronted him with evidence that he was gay. Shortly after confessing, he killed himself.
He wasn't the only one. And I saw lots of news reports, newspaper reports of, you know, single young men, government employees who committed suicide in Washington for no apparent reason. No one was defending gay people.
The Democrats stayed away from this issue. At the time, the ACLU believed it was perfectly legitimate for the government to fire homosexuals as a threat to national security. This is the ACLU. The ACLU. The persecution of homosexual public servants gave rise to the gay rights movement in the pugnacious person of Frank Kameny. Kameny, a Ph.D. from Harvard and an astronomer with the U.S. Army Map Service, was fired in 1957 for being gay.
To the best of my knowledge and belief, I was the first person to fight back out of all of those large, huge number of people that were fired in the 50s. He says that this issue is, it's not about national security. It's not even about morality. It's about civil rights. And he creates this new rhetoric. He calls himself and his colleagues in the group homosexual American citizens.
And you can't forget either part of that. In 1963, he became the first openly gay person to testify on Capitol Hill. Then, in 1965, he organized picket lines in front of the State Department and the White House. Every American citizen has the right to be considered by his government on the basis of his own personal merits as an individual. Those folks were very courageous. It had never been done before, and they were scared to death.
But the discriminatory policy continued. In 1980, Jamie Shoemaker worked for the National Security Agency as a linguist. What kind of a security clearance does your job require?
Very high, probably more than the president has, actually. You might be surprised. One day, his supervisor told him that security wanted to question him. And the first thing they said was, Mr. Shoemaker, we understand you're leading a gay lifestyle. And I said, well, I didn't think I was leading it, but I said, yes, I am. And immediately they took my badge off, and they read me my rights. And so he called Frank Kameny. And he yelled at me and said, why didn't you let them take your badge?
And why didn't you shut your mouth? Six months later, with Kameny's help, Shoemaker made headlines when the agency allowed him to keep his job and his security clearance. In 1995, after 42 years, the last vestiges of Eisenhower's executive order were finally overturned. How many gay federal employees actually spied for foreign governments? There was not a single example of a gay man or lesbian who ever submitted to blackmail by a foreign agent, not a single one. In 2009, Frank Kameny was back at the White House. Frank Kameny, who was fired, this time invited by President Obama for a ceremony extending the rights of gay federal employees. Kameny died in 2011, not long after he was interviewed by Josh Howard, who says there are still lessons to be learned from his courage. I grew up in a time before there was marriage equality and before Stonewall.
So I'm in some ways envious of younger people that they are growing up in a more tolerant society. But I also hope that they understand that equality is not a given, that there are people who fought and sacrificed for those accomplishments. This past Thursday, America and much of the world marked D-Day plus 75. David Martin has been talking to the grandson of the man who launched that invasion, General Dwight D. Eisenhower. Ike on the eve of D-Day. General Eisenhower paid a visit to the airborne infantry. A commander sending warriors into battle.
His presence is saying to them, whatever happens tonight, your sacrifice will be meaningful. He loved these soldiers and he just wanted to see them. David Eisenhower is the grandson of the general who commanded the greatest military operation of history's most terrible war.
My grandparents would stand here, one in this window, one in that window, and they would just wave until until we disappeared. David grew up on the Eisenhower farm at Gettysburg, just over the hill from the scene of the greatest battle of the American Civil War. As president, Ike named the presidential retreat Camp David after his grandson. They were close, but not close enough to share memories of D-Day. He did not tell stories.
In fact, I was discouraged from really raising the subject with him. World War II was not that safe a topic because this would apply to Franklin Roosevelt and everybody in command responsibility at Winston Churchill as well. They said their peace and memoirs. They said it the way they wanted to say it. I think that they felt that every decision that they made in World War II carried consequences. So the decisions were too consequential to be the subject of small talk?
I think that about distills it. The lives of literally millions in Europe are at stake. I put all my toys out right here and had my battles at night. David did not learn about D-Day sitting at his grandfather's knee. He learned about it researching and writing Eisenhower at war, which was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize. He did not have a grandiose notion about his position in the war.
He was part of something much larger than himself and he understood that. President Roosevelt named Eisenhower, commander of the operation codenamed Overlord, in December 1943. The stage is being set for the beginning of a great and crucial test all over the world. Just six months before troops were supposed to go ashore at Normandy.
Here's the good news. They had this magnificent plan in place when Eisenhower was named. But he had to make sure the plan would actually work.
The initial assault was three divisions with two following up, meaning a five division Overlord. He wanted 12 divisions. So he expands. He has to expand the landing. Doubles the landing. Doubles it.
Better than doubles it. 2.8 million men and 7,000 ships were assembled for the invasion and the follow-on landings. There were too many decisions for any one man to make, but one decision only Ike could make. To launch the operation, that is the one which was his. What are the factors he has to consider in making that go-no-go decision?
The overriding factor is the safety of the landing. And that is a combination, it seems to me, of weather and the pace of German reinforcement. We came down here hoping and praying that the weather would be sufficiently good we could go on the June 5th. One of the few times Eisenhower ever spoke about D-Day was with Walter Cronkite on the 20th anniversary in 1964. They visited the command post where he was given the weather forecast for June 5th. The worst report you ever saw it and he talked about gales hitting the Normandy beaches and winds up to the, you know, the rate of 45 miles an hour, that kind of thing. Landing would be impossible. But the forecast for the 6th promised a brief break. I thought it was just the best of them, a bad bargain that I just got and said, okay, we'll go.
And this room was emptied in two seconds. The Germans really felt that the weather precluded landings and they were right, but what they did not see was a window that had appeared in our forecasts of about 18 hours. But winds were still high and visibility low, which made the paratroop drops behind the beaches high risk. Before he paid his famous visit to the 101st Airborne, Ike was warned they could suffer 80% casualties. He understood that the risks were very high for these soldiers. This was a landing that had to succeed.
You just do things when you know it has to work that you not otherwise do. If you're a German soldier this is the landing that has to fail. The Germans fought that way.
This was a huge fight. This is not Germany giving up. In the final hours before the invasion, Eisenhower wrote this letter in the event the landings failed. The troops, air and navy, did all that bravery and devotion to duty could do. If any blame or fault attaches to the attempt, it is mine alone.
Pretty strong. Ike did not have to take the fall for D-Day. Nor did he claim credit for its success when he visited Normandy for the last time with Walter Cronkite. So everything was gone wrong.
It could go on wrong. And finally some hearty soul just got up and said, come on fellas, I'm sick of this, let's try it. And we began to see these little individual acts of heroism. The capture of Cherbourg three weeks after the first landing in Normandy is called by military experts the greatest Allied strategic triumph of the war. He looks like a young man still in that picture.
Well he does. D-Day in the liberation of Europe made Eisenhower the most famous general in America. The so-called man on a white horse who rode to victory in the 1952 presidential election. You like Ike, I like Ike, everybody likes Ike. His smile made I like Ike a natural campaign slogan. But watch what happened to that smile before a gathering of World War II veterans.
I'm sure one of the things that came to his mind right away was here I am running for president. And 1,200 people died on Omaha Beach on June 6, 1944 and they're there and I am here. 1,200 on Omaha Beach, 4,400 American and Allied dead all told on D-Day. Russell Woodward of the 29th and Harry Ramsey of the 8th from New Jersey, Willard Clouse 82nd Airborne from Kentucky. If any one person deserves the final word on D-Day it is surely Dwight David Eisenhower. I devoutly hope that we will never again have to see such scenes as these.
We must find some way to work and to really to gain an eternal peace for this world. When was the last time a concert left you saying wow? It happened pretty recently for one young fellow and Steve Hartman has his story. They are some of the best classical musicians in the country but at one recent performance by the Handel and Haydn Society in Boston the most memorable moment didn't come from anyone on stage at Symphony Hall. It came from the audience right at the very end of Mozart's Masonic funeral music. Listen.
Did you hear that? Someone yelled wow and it resonated not just in this hall but throughout the classical music community. It was just such a departure from typical audience protocol which is why the president of the Handel and Haydn Society was absolutely thrilled. I was like that's fantastic. This is David Sneed and also there's a sense of wonder in that wow you could really hear on the tape he was like this was amazing. David was so smitten by the outburst as was the audience that he decided to try to find the voice responsible. Like who was that? Because he really touched my life in a way that I'll never forget.
This reminds me a little bit of Cinderella. You're trying to find somebody who was at the ball but you had no way of finding them. So they didn't have email back then huh? You wrote to everybody in the audience. I wrote to everybody in the audience yeah yeah. And eventually that email found its way to concert goer Stephen Matton.
We did dash out like like we were turning into pumpkins. Stephen was there with his nine-year-old grandson Ronan. Ronan is the one who shouted wow which surprised Stephen more than anyone.
Because he just doesn't do that you know usually he's in a world by himself. Ronan what do you see? Ronan is autistic and considered non-verbal but clearly music may be a wormhole into his heart and mind. As a thank you David arranged for a private cello performance for Ronan. But Ronan's family says all thanks should go to David and the Handel and Haydn musicians who made that moment possible. They say just hearing Ronan's reaction after being told for years he might never engage.
What more can you say but thank you and wow. It's Sunday morning on CBS. Here again is Mo Rocca. The movie Footloose has followed Kevin Bacon throughout his career along with that game Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.
He talks about it all in our Sunday profile from Lee Cowan. Come on. Even in the middle of an interview those who think they're connected to Kevin Bacon by six degrees or less try to prove it with a picture. You got it? Strangers mostly.
Thank you very much. After more than 40 years in the public eye you'd think he'd be bored with it but he isn't. It's kind of often what you hear from celebrities is that it's such a pain in the ass you know I can't go anywhere and uh you know people hassle me and all that kind of stuff and you know yeah there is a certain amount that is it's true but 99 percent of it is really good.
And yet for a star who seems to be everywhere the fear of being nowhere still lurks. Was there a point that you realized you made it? No. There wasn't a moment. There still isn't a moment. Really?
No definitely not. The best gig the best scene or the best moment or uh whatever is around the corner it's it's it's not here yet. And that's what keeps him going keeps him hungry he says for roles like the gritty FBI agent he's currently playing in a new Showtime series called City on a Hill. Don't talk to me like I'm your mother. It was a good time in my life to play somebody who could not shut up and that's this guy. Bacon's character is a corrupt yet endearingly irreverent Fed who teams up with a young assistant DA played by Aldis Hodge to solve a string of armored car robberies plaguing the city of Boston.
You got a kid roach on your dock and he's an informant of mine he's working a decent case. What about the accent? You've done it before obviously. You know if you're from Boston you're gonna think it's terrible. That's the thing you have to just resign yourself to. For a proud Philadelphian though it's not bad. Bacon is a Northeasterner at heart leaving Philly for New York at just 17 to enroll in acting classes at the Circle in the Square Theater School. Before I even know what an actor was I kind of knew that I wanted to be an actor because you know what way well because as an as a barely being able to walk I would walk into a room and have this intense desire for people to look at me. You know to be wanted to be the center I wanted to be the center of attention definitely. Some actors will claim that that's not part of their DNA and it's bull as you either want to be the center of attention or you just are a liar because that's what we do.
I mean we perform. Footloose of course is his forever companion. He's been dusting off as Dan shoes to recreate those moves some 30 years later on the Tonight Show starring Jimmy Fallon. Yep he's still got it but it was as a beanie wearing fraternity pledge where it all started. And Chip Diller how are you?
Hi how are you? Bacon got the part of Chip Diller in Animal House when he was still in acting school but his teacher at the time seemed a bit surprised he got it at all. I'm a zit get it with a lump in my throat you know I said I'm going off to make this move and he said they're going to pay you to act. I would never forget his direct quote. And they kept paying. I remember exactly where I was last night. After that came soap operas, Friday the 13th. You've been drinking already? And his memorable role as a low-level drunk in Diner.
I don't know I don't know I'm getting antsy or something I can't figure out what I don't know. But it was Footloose that would be his first leading role. One that he almost lost. There was a woman who was running the studio at the time didn't like me didn't want me basically said to them he's just not f***able. That's almost worse than saying you're a bad actor. Yeah it's it's awesome yeah especially because I really thought I was but.
Test 69 take four. He fought for it and got it but the fame that followed Footloose didn't sit well at first. Now I was a pop star so I wasn't comfortable with it and I pushed it back I didn't really ride that wave you know I think I went into a phase of of self-sabotage because things just started to go south from a career standpoint. I was just trying to figure out my place in the in the in the movie business.
Where did you find your place? As a character actor and I felt things just changed like people started calling you know and they were calling about smaller but better parts. And those were the parts where he found himself sharing the screen with the likes of Jack Nicholson.
Is there a question anywhere in our future? Sean Penn. Right now all she is is missing. Tom Hanks. So what happened? We're dead. And Meryl Streep.
For me if you were to flip us on purpose I could drown. The kind of ubiquity that sparked the six degrees of Kevin Bacon game in the first place. You did a movie with Val Kilmer?
No but Val was in Top Gun with Tom Cruise and Tom was in A Few Good Men with me. You weren't a real fan of that at first were you? No I mean when I heard about six degrees I was like oh god this is a joke at my expense. It tapped into my fears of not being taken seriously taken seriously that you know I was now you know a joke parlor game.
But he came to embrace it. Not the game necessarily but the idea that we're all linked. Six Degrees to me if you really take me out of it not only is it a beautiful notion it's an important notion that's what we do we make connections. His charity sixdegrees.org challenges everyone to connect with those who either need help or are doing the helping.
Because all of us are just a few degrees away from somebody that really needs our help. Especially often overlooked non-profits like The Door in Manhattan. The organization reaches out to disadvantaged youth through all manner of programs including the performing arts where Bacon fit right in. Second only to acting is his passion for music. He's been writing songs since he was 12 and he has a band with his brother Michael. The Bacon Brothers. They have eight albums to their credit so far and they tour regularly.
There is an offstage side of Bacon too but even that is pretty high profile. His wife of 30 years is actress Kira Sedgwick. I got this bench for her you know because she's hard to get a birthday present for. So you bought her a park bench.
Yeah I got her a park bench. They share that bench just like they share their profession. He's worked with her. She's worked with him.
In fact Sedgwick just finished directing Bacon in an episode of City on a Hill. And I knew she would be good at it. I mean partly because I could see her come on to my sets you know you could see on her face that she's thinking of a better way that I could play it.
Yeah. Or it could be shot or any number of things you know and you know she comes over and starts you know whispering to him I think thanks honey but you know that's Clint Eastwood over there. He has both the breadth and the depth of experience to allow himself a good long pat on the back. Instead though Kevin Bacon just chalks it all up to persistence. What do you attribute the longevity to? There's no secret to longevity. Longevity is the secret. If you just hang in there I think. Yeah. Sooner or later somebody goes yeah you know I always like that guy.
Even if you suck. Whether White House officials like it or not, Jim Acosta of CNN is always ready to ask the next question. This morning our Chip Reid has some questions for him. I'm trying to answer your question.
I politely waited and I even called on you despite the fact that you interrupted me. It's become a familiar scene. Do you set something up that you don't know? Was it accurate or not? I work day in day out with the majority of you here in the room. I think you all know I'm an honest person. The White House briefing room as battleground. You're saying something that's just patently untrue. I mean obviously. Stating their policy positions is not patently untrue.
And often it's the press versus the president. Are you worried? That's enough. That's enough.
That's enough. Jim Acosta chief White House correspondent for CNN has had his fair share of heated exchanges. I'll tell you what CNN should be ashamed of itself having you working for them.
You are a rude terrible person. That exchange led the White House to revoke Acosta's press pass. CNN took it to court. Let's go back to work. And Acosta is back on the job.
Donald Trump. Whether he's a villain, a hero, or something in between, Jim Acosta is not about to take a back seat in the briefing room. There are two basic criticisms of you for even from some of your colleagues and certainly from the White House. And one of them is that you grandstand.
I'm looking at an overgrown infant. I think he's the Rosa Parks of the press corps. That you sometimes make the news rather than report on the news. Is that a valid criticism? Well I know folks are going to say that. I look at it as I'm doing my job.
And I see this as a very serious serious moment in our nation's history. And I think to some extent we have been trying to figure out the best way to cover this president. And do you think you've found the best way to cover him? I think I front him.
I think I found the best way for me. But his way has not only brought attention to himself, but to his network. The man who sent the pipe bombs to CNN and other Democratic targets in the fall of 2018, on his social media account he was directing death threats at me. Something along the lines of you're next you're the enemy of America and so on.
No. You know my sense of it is is that what started off as an act for the president calling us fake news, calling us the enemy of the people. CNN is fake news I don't take questions from CNN. John Roberts of Fox.
And so on has gotten out of control and they don't know how to reel it back in. In his new book titled The Enemy of the People, A Dangerous Time to Tell the Truth in America, Acosta recounts his past few years on the political beat. First covering candidate Trump, then President Trump. The title of the book, The Enemy of the People, he has called you personally the enemy of the people has he not? He did. Yeah he did at that that press conference right after the midterms. When you report fake news, which CNN does a lot, you are the enemy of the people.
Go ahead. Mr. President, talk about what we've been through over these last few years, not just during the first two years of this administration, but also the campaign. People forget about what happened during the campaign. If these people were honest they'd show this arena.
Why don't you show the arena folks? You know the Trump press corps would walk into an arena and thousands of people would start shouting at us. We are in a rigged system and a big part of the rigging are these dishonest people in the media.
Then candidate Donald Trump would refer to us as the disgusting news media, the dishonest news media, liars, scum and so on. So is that why you decided to write a book? Did you feel people needed to know or did you also feel perhaps you needed to explain yourself in some way? Well I wanted to do both, but mainly Chip, you know my feeling is, and I feel strongly about this, I don't want my children to grow up in a country where the press is called the enemy of the people.
It's as simple as that. Jim Acosta is the son of a Cuban immigrant father and an American-born mother. Despite his heritage though, immigration is not the only issue that made him want to delve deeper or as his critics might say go on the attack. A major turning point, says Acosta, was the president's reaction to the violent white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia in August 2017. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. I think that that was a very important moment, not just for the press but for the American people. I don't believe that there are two sides to a story when it's a matter of right versus wrong. It just doesn't work that way and I think that in this era reporters have been thrust into a position where you know we are not only calling balls and strikes but we are calling fouls.
Good afternoon. These days the White House briefings are few and far between. This is what has replaced the White House briefing. We don't have briefings anymore.
We do this in the driveway instead. Making it harder for the media to call any of the shots. How often does Sarah Sanders do briefings now? Since the beginning of this year I believe she's only done two briefings. But you've been a critic of those press briefings. Is it really a big loss not to have them? I think it is a big loss because you know I mean almost as important as what they say in the briefings in response to our questions is what they don't say and how they don't want to answer the questions and avoid the questions and so I would love to see those briefings come back. I you know I get passionate about it and maybe people say oh you're outside your lane and so on but it's just I don't want that way of life to change for us and so yeah it's worth fighting for and yeah it's worth shouting questions to make sure that they're held accountable on this sort of thing.
I want my kids to grow up in a country where you know we can still shout questions at the president. You know he can take it. He's the president right? He can handle it. He can handle it. I'm Mo Rocca.
Thank you for listening and please join us again next Sunday morning. of taking a democratic seat away. Nevada. New Hampshire. Not Georgia. Well, Georgia's right up there but New Hampshire is a surprise. In New Hampshire people really just kind of don't like Maggie Hassan. For more from this week's conversation follow the Takeout with Major Garrett on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
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