Share This Episode
Sunday Morning Jane Pauley Logo

CBS Sunday Morning

Sunday Morning / Jane Pauley
The Truth Network Radio
September 15, 2019 10:30 am

CBS Sunday Morning

Sunday Morning / Jane Pauley

On-Demand Podcasts NEW!

This broadcaster has 296 podcast archives available on-demand.

September 15, 2019 10:30 am

How we have failed our teachers; Marilyn Monroe's billowing dress; The Backstreet Boys: "We will never turn our backs on each other"; Inside the pages, and websites, of New York Magazine; The little patriot; Angie Dickinson; Jim Gaffigan on parents going "back to school"; Movies: Irwin Winkler

See Privacy Policy at and California Privacy Notice at

Amy Lawrence Show
Amy Lawrence
Our Daily Bread Ministries
Various Hosts
The Adam Gold Show
Adam Gold
More Than Ink
Pastor Jim Catlin & Dorothy Catlin

Our CBS Sunday morning podcast is sponsored by Edward Jones. College tours with your oldest daughter. Updating the kitchen to the appropriate decade.

Retiring on the coast. Life is full of moments that matter, and Edward Jones helps you make the most of them. That's why every Edward Jones financial advisor works with you to build personalized strategies for now and down the road. So when your next moment arrives, big or small, you're ready for it.

Life is for living. Let's partner for all of it. Learn more at Today's CBS Sunday morning podcast is sponsored by Tough Shed. Start dreaming of a backyard season and how great it could be with a durable, attractive new shed, studio, or garage from Tough Shed. Use our online design tool at, then let our building experts handle the final details, delivery, and installation. Nobody has what Tough Shed has. Make this the year of your backyard. Give us a call, stop in, or design online at

Dream, design, and build with Tough Shed. Good morning. I'm Jane Pauley, and this is Sunday morning. The new school year is upon us, a time of new beginnings for students and teachers. And though it's way too early to say how this fall's students are doing, there's discouraging news about how America's teachers are faring.

Tony DeCopel offers us a real education. There are few professions people say they admire more than teaching. But for many in the classroom today, admiration doesn't always feel like respect. Do you feel like teachers are viewed as part of a solution to help students, to help society? I think we're viewed as the problem.

You also need to identify the political platform. Later on Sunday morning, the plight and low pay of the public school teacher. Our Sunday profile this morning is of Angie Dickinson, an actress who first found stardom more than half a century ago. She'll be looking back with our morocca.

Few stars have ever had Angie Dickinson's potent mix of talent, looks, and smarts. So how's your dating life now? Get out. Are you kidding? You know how old I am?

I'm not going to be dating some young guy unless he calls first. Angie Dickinson laying her cards on the table ahead on Sunday morning. There's still a little time left for a summer song. Tracy Smith catches up with one of the biggest groups of the recent past.

With a new world tour, the Backstreet Boys are back on top. But their 26-year rise hasn't been all harmony. We love hard, but we also fight hard. I mean, there's been fights. You guys have had fistfights? Who's fought who? Who's fought him? Me and him. Because he burned my comic. I punched you a lot, but you didn't punch back.

Their 26-year journey later on Sunday morning. From time to time this new season, we'll be sharing screen time with Ben Mankiewicz, heir to a storied Hollywood family. He'll give us an insider's look at the movies. In a town obsessed with youth, an old-school film producer keeps making movie magic. Tell us your name.

Erwin Winkler. What do you do for a living? I make movies. He makes movies all right.

Maybe you've heard of a few. Rocky. Raging Bull. The Right Stuff. Goodfellas. Later on Sunday morning.

Okay, we can wrap. David Pogue looks back on a half a century of New York magazine. Jim Gaffigan bemoans Back to School Days. And more all coming up when our Sunday morning podcast continues.

You need a well-equipped classroom for a real education, but the key ingredient is good teachers. So how are teachers doing as this new school year begins? Our cover story is reported by Tony DeCopel. There's no denying that summer is over, and that means back to school. You also need to identify the political platform.

What are they running for? A time when many of Kara Stoltenberg's high school English students in Norman, Oklahoma have put their summer jobs behind them to focus on school. I love it. Her? Not so much. Okay, so we figured this out.

If you download a watermark draft, okay. You have a whole day of school, and then you come here? Yes, I do. Get to school typically around 8. Technically, off the clock at around 4.20.

Finish things up at school and then head over here. The 29-year-old had a retail job back in college, but after getting a master's degree, she thought those days were behind her. People kept telling me the same thing, like the pay's not great, the pay's not great. And I heard that, and I understood that.

I don't think anyone could have really prepared me for how close I would be cutting it. Nationwide, about one in five teachers has a second job during the school year, which is not so surprising when you consider that since 1996, inflation-adjusted pay for a public school teacher has actually fallen. The average annual teacher salary today? Just over $60,000, with nearly a third making less than $45,000 a year. Yeah, and we have all class period today too.

Including Kara Stoltenberg. What do we want? Money! What do we want now? Now!

Fifty-five strokes! Fury over those flat and falling wages helped spark a movement, one that in the last 18 months has swept through conservative red states and liberal blue cities, as tens of thousands of teachers walked off the job. They feel that the expectations for them have risen, and their pay has really not kept up. Dana Goldstein is an education reporter for The New York Times, an author of a 2014 book about the history of teaching. She says low pay has been a problem since the early 1800s, a time when most teachers in America were men. When it came time to have universal public education for all American kids, Horace Mann, the father of our public school system, said, I have an idea, let's bring women in as teachers, then we can expand public education and it will not cost quite as much. Because we don't have to pay women as much.

Exactly, at that time it was legal, you could pay women half as much. But Goldstein says the recent strikes are about more than just pay. She says many teachers simply don't feel respected. Education standards in the nation's schools today came in for blistering criticism.

And it's a feeling she traces back to a landmark 1983 report from the Reagan administration. A nation at risk. If a foreign nation had done to our schools what we ourselves have done to them, we would be justified in calling it an act of war. One of the arguments it made was that, you know, teachers and the sort of low intellectual capacity of some teachers was to blame for kids having low test scores and not being able to compete internationally. So it wasn't only that schools were failing, it was teachers are failing. Yes. That's a big change.

Yeah, it was a big change. And I think for many teachers that was the beginning of a feeling that they were being unfairly portrayed and unfairly treated by policymakers, by politicians. As new mandates to improve test scores, track student progress, and justify every lesson were piling up, everyone else, it seemed, piled on. We want to reward good teachers and stop making excuses for bad ones. When I was in that classroom, I was the best teacher they could ever have. Sixteen people had to share the pizza. This is all you're getting. Inside his fourth grade classroom near Tulsa, Eric Weingartner felt like he was making a difference. It's going to be the larger one.

So you were right. But increasing demands outside the classroom got in the way. When I first started teaching, you might have one meeting a month. When I left, you would have two meetings a week. You'd also have two meetings during the school day.

You might have one before, and the amount of paperwork is insane. How were the hours? Well, that's where they kind of trick you, like you're not, you get summers off, you get every vacation off, and you're only there for seven hours a day.

But that is not true at all. What you don't see behind the scenes is all the things that are required of you to take up your time. So yes, students might have left the classroom, but you will be there before they get there, and you'll be there long after. And it was challenging to do it all on a teacher's salary in Oklahoma. When we bought our first house, the only way we could afford it was we had to take multiple jobs. I worked at Sears. I'd also worked at the janitor at the school district, too.

So I would get out of school, I would change my clothes, and then go right to janitor work, and I'd do that until about 9, 9.30. When Oklahoma's teachers walked out last year, they hadn't had a raise in a decade. After 10 days, when they returned, the raise they got fell thousands of dollars short of what they'd asked for. I'm not waiting another 10 years for $6,000.

No way. And so, after 15 years as a teacher, the 40-year-old left the profession. He now works in a factory making $12,000 more a year. 30,000 teachers like him have left Oklahoma classrooms in the last six years alone, part of a nationwide trend contributing to teacher shortages all over the country. Kara Stoltenberg says the exodus is hard to watch. In the English department, we've lost 26 teachers in five and a half years. And they're teachers who love this career.

I'm sorry. And the most painful part is that students are the ones who feel it. Like, they get attached to those teachers. They look forward to having them. And I have students telling me I should leave. Where does that come from?

I think it's because they care and they see how hard we work. Former Oklahoma teacher Carrie Hicks also decided to give up on teaching. But she didn't give up on education. I was meeting with senators who were serving on the education committee. I said, hi, I'm Carrie Hicks. I'm a fourth grade math and science teacher at Deer Creek Elementary. And this year I have 28 students. And he put his hand up and told me I was lying. And he said, well, we know that the average class size in Oklahoma is 16. And I said, I don't know where you're getting your numbers. But I've been in education in Oklahoma for seven years. And I've never had a class size less than 23. So what did you decide in that moment?

That if they were unwilling to do the job, then I could do it better. We haven't done enough to end our teacher shortage or tackle overcrowded classrooms. Hicks decided to run for the state senate in Oklahoma, one of dozens of teachers who ran for political office all across the country last year.

The thing I miss the most? The results were mixed. But Hicks defeated a long-serving senator who had voted against raising teacher pay. If we're not willing to put more dollars into the classroom, if we're not willing to invest in the people that are going to be at the front of those classrooms either, then what is left for public education? Polls show that when teachers strike for higher pay, their communities overwhelmingly support them. But consider this, when given the chance to actually pay teachers more by approving tax increases, very often those same voters say no. Until that changes, Kara Stoltenberg says many teachers will continue to struggle, so their students won't have to. Any time I think about my job, I picture my students.

I don't want them to suffer at all because of restraints I have. And that's maybe why we're not getting the funding, we're not getting the raises necessarily that we need, because we still make it work, and we do what we need to. And now a page from our Sunday morning almanac, September 15, 1954, 65 years ago today. The day of a celebrated, albeit very calculated, wardrobe malfunction. For that was the day Marilyn Monroe posed over a New York City subway grate for a memorable scene in the movie The Seven Year Itch. With fans looking on, gusts of made-for-the-movies wind from the trains below repeatedly blew Marilyn's white dress up to unladylike heights. Publicity photos from that pre-dawn shoot are famous worldwide, but crowd noise forced the scene with Tom Ewell to be re-shot weeks later on a Hollywood soundstage. Oh, do you feel the breeze from the subway?

Isn't it delicious? Although the scene was intended as a visual gag, It sort of cools the ankles, doesn't it? Monroe's husband at the time, the pin-striped and straight-laced Yankee legend Joe DiMaggio, failed to see the humor, and the scene reputedly played a role in their divorce. Still, that Marilyn Monroe moment lives on to this day, both in the photographs and in the form of a 26-foot tall statue titled Forever Marilyn. Forever Marilyn. That was a big hit for the Backstreet Boys in 1999. All these years later, the boys are back in a big way.

Here's Tracey Smith with a summer song. Fan or not, if you were alive in the 90s, you probably can sing along. Backstreet's back, all right. Back in the day, they were a phenomenon. Hysterical fans fainted, a frenzy some compared to Beatlemania. And with more than 130 million records sold worldwide, they remain the best-selling boy band of all time.

Their new album, DNA, has brought new life to the band and their first chart-topper in more than a decade. The boys are really men at this point. Nick Carter, Howie Duro, A.J.

McLean, Brian Luttrell, and Kevin Richardson. When Don't Go Breaking My Heart was released, it shot to number one on iTunes. What was your reaction? What is happening?

Thank you, God. This was the scene at the Grammy Museum in Los Angeles where the guys helped open a Backstreet Boys interactive exhibit. Fans who grew up screaming and dreaming of a close encounter are getting a second chance. On display, treasures from their youth, like the costumes from their first hit in America. I remember these outfits from the video, but they were a lot wetter. They were very wet. One of them was completely off of someone, which would be Howie.

Howie was pretty much off the entire time. Businessman Lou Pearlman brought them together in 1993. Kevin, the oldest, was 21. Nick was just 13, a boy band that became a sometimes dysfunctional family. He brought it up to my attention when I was 14. 13. I was 13.

My parents had signed over guardianship to him, so he was actually raising me on the road at like 13, 14 years old. We love hard, but we also fight hard. I mean, there's been fist fights. Oh, yeah. You guys have had fist fights?

Oh, yeah. Who's fought who? It's been me and him. Because he burned my comic.

I punched you a lot, but you didn't punch back. Did AJ grab you like this or Nick? No, that was Nick and AJ. Nick, Nick holds the record for the most part now.

That chemistry worked. In 1999, their album Millennium sold more than a million copies the first week alone. And as the boys cranked out hit after hit, their rather devoted fan base expanded across the globe. But all the while, Lou Pearlman, who they affectionately called Big Papa, was cheating them, raking in millions while the boys were still struggling to pay bills. When they found out, they sued, then settled. You are looking at five individuals that paid $5 million apiece to rid him of their lives. So he owed you money, and you guys paid him to get rid of him?

Yeah, basically. We all loved him and admired him and looked up to him as a businessman. But then when the curtain was pulled back and was revealed that he was ripping us off and taking advantage of us, it broke our hearts. It broke our hearts. It hurt. The drama took its toll.

First AJ, then Nick battled drug and alcohol abuse. And in 2006, Kevin left the band, but the band refused to leave him. Every reality TV program came to us and said, oh, we can find another Kevin, if you'll sign on. We wouldn't do it. It's like building a house. And we built this career for 26 years with a part of Kevin's blood, sweat, and tears, and we weren't going to replace him.

We will never turn our backs on each other. Are we going to talk about that? Even hearing the demo version was only one voice. Are we going to talk about the fact that you don't necessarily sound as good as you used to? The demo voice. Are we going to talk about that?

And their bond was tested again. In the documentary Show Him What You're Made Of, Brian, who sang lead on so many hits, revealed he suffers from muscle tension dysphonia. Simply put, under stress, he loses his voice. I want to talk about your voice because you have had this issue. I have.

It's a work in progress. As you know that I can talk to you right now. Probably four or five years ago, I was not able to talk. Not talk.

So if you can't talk, you can't really sing. What did you do? So therapy, a lot of soul searching. The guys, did they ever say to you, we want you out? No, no, they never said that we wanted you out. It was just, it took its toll on the band. Through it all, the band stayed intact. And in 2017, launched a Las Vegas residency, which became the fastest selling show in Vegas history. Embracing their resurgence, the group began releasing new music. And they decided to take a chance on a new world tour, their biggest in 18 years.

So they retreated far from the lights of the Vegas strip to a rehearsal studio in the historic town of Lidditz, Pennsylvania. Nerves, fears, anticipation. This tour to me is like almost like a second coming of the Backstreet Boys. Loneliness is no longer an issue.

The boys are all married men with eight children between them. Tears flowed as Brian watched his 16-year-old son Bailey open their show for the first time in Washington, D.C. And backstage, the dressing room is now a family room. This is like minutes before you're about to go out. Literally like two minutes. And here we are just hanging with the family.

Yeah, we're going to do a little prayer. One, two, three. Go Las Vegas!

One, two, three. Go Las America! Two and a half decades after it all began, they're on a sold-out tour with a new hit album. We never change.

We've always stayed true to who we are. For us to stay on this steady path for the last 26 years and never falter, it actually worked, you know? It paid off. I mean, it paid off. And that kind of staying power has got to make the guys feel good.

Maybe even larger than life. A lot of American cities, maybe yours, have a so-called city magazine. David Pogue tells us about one of the first and one of the best. Even if you're not a New Yorker, you may know New York Magazine. It was the original city magazine, one of the first magazines for both men and women. It's won 48 national magazine awards and, not long ago, it celebrated its 50th anniversary.

New York was never really about the concrete of the city. It was a way of looking at the world. It was a sensibility, a certain kind of hyper-curiosity, cynicism, and also openness and generosity to new ideas.

This came out fantastically. After 15 years, Adam Moss recently stepped down as editor-in-chief. Can you give us the origin story of this magazine? Sure.

Yeah. Once upon a time, there was a newspaper in New York called the New York Herald Tribune. It had a Sunday magazine called New York, and Clay Felker was the editor and Milton Glaser was the art director. When the Tribune folded in 1967, Glaser and Felker bought the name New York from its owners.

And in 1968, the magazine as we know it was born. You should talk to Milton. Yeah, you really should talk to Milton. He's around? He is. He's around and he's still cogent.

Wow. He's still cogent. The plan was, you know, like a movie. Let's do a magazine. Milton Glaser is still around. This is an example of what we would do. We would look through... He's 90 and very cogent.

One of the great lies of American culture is the lie of retirement that at a certain point in your life at 65, for God's sake, you're ready to go to Florida and stare out the window for the next 30 years. Where in the world did that idea come from? You've probably seen some of the posters he's designed or his famous, I love New York logo. I co-founded with Clay Felker. We did it. Together, we did it in this building. Clay was a boy from the Middle West whose nose was pressed against the windows of the rich and famous in New York. And I was a Jewish boy from the Bronx who knew how the city operated and was interested in working class and left-wing politics.

But Clay and I were completely in tune when we came to ideas we wanted to express. Ideas expressed in articles by legendary writers like Tom Wolf, Jimmy Breslin, Nora Ephron, Gloria Steinem, and Frank Rich, and through iconic covers, always stamped with Glaser's famous logo. This is probably our most famous cover, which is called Cosby the Women.

Adam Moss took me into the archives. At the time, nobody was paying any attention to Bill Cosby. And the accusations were all isolated. And what really made the cover was this empty chair, which symbolized all the other people who hadn't yet come forward. And the cover that followed Hurricane Sandy's disastrous impact. If you recall, half of New York was blacked out. The photographer actually was able to take pictures from the helicopter, 99.9 percent of which were unusable.

I think he had three usable frames. Oh my gosh. Because of the movement of the helicopter. In an age when dozens of venerable magazines have gone to the great newsstand in the sky, it's impressive that New York is still in print. One key reason? Adam Moss started publishing the magazine on the internet early.

I was leading the charge, I guess. Today, there are five spin-off websites with a total of 50 million readers a month. Intelligencer, The Cut, Vulture, Grub Street, and The Strategist. I myself write tech reviews for The Strategist. I feel like they're each sort of could be a standalone website that's under the umbrella of New York magazine. Allison P. Davis writes for both the printed magazine and The Cut. Is there any less glamour to writing for a digital-only enterprise than for a print one? I think we've worked really hard to make our digital brands just as prestigious and thoughtful and sharp as our print magazine's legacy has been. And so I think to our readers, there's really no difference. And your official title is?

Editor-in-Chief, New York Magazine. Wow. Yeah. Do you ever think you would hear yourself saying that?

No, I didn't, actually. After serving as an editor for 12 years, David Haskell has just become the magazine's new editor-in-chief. As nervous-making as it is to step into the job, I feel like I understand what this place is about. Even with its web success, New York Magazine has had to make some tough choices. In 2014, it went from weekly publication to every other weekly.

Earlier this year, the company laid off 5% of its staff. And as of late last year, once you've read a few articles for free, you're asked to pay $5 a month for access to its website. I don't think we're ever going to be your first read of the day, but I think we'll be, I hope, we'll be your favorite. It's good now, I think. I enjoy it.

New York Magazine is certainly one of Milton Glaser's favorites. Well, it was a wonderful time for me. And could you ever imagine that 51 years later, it would still be? No.

No, you have no idea. Well, you came up with some good ideas that lasted. Occasionally, yeah. We did a couple of nice things. When it comes to honoring the flag, few of us can match the enthusiasm of the little patriot.

Here's Steve Hartman. For six-year-old Finn Dailey of West Hartford, Connecticut, the best view in his house is from the front door looking up at the flag. Finn has Down syndrome. He's also autistic, a combination that, according to his parents, Kevin and Brooke, has blessed him with a deep appreciation for the flag.

I think it's the movement. If it's moving, if the wind is blowing, he would sit there for an hour and just watch the flag go back and forth, which is kind of the beauty of Finn, too. Somehow, he has found comfort and contentment in a site most of us take for granted. And it's not just his own flag. We're fortunate. We have a lot of flags in the neighborhood, so it creates for very long and slow walks.

Come on, buddy. And it was on one of those walks with the family that Finn discovered his flag de resistance. Here's your flag. A real beauty, mounted on a tree, hanging right over the sidewalk a quarter mile from his house. Finn would make camp on that sidewalk if you let him.

He is that enamored. The flag belongs to a man named Todd Disk. The boy would just sit there transfixed by the flag. What did you think when you saw that?

I was like, God bless America. This kid wants to look at my flag, then I'm all for it. Which is why, not long after he saw Finn, he sawed some boards and made a little perch for that little patriot.

He just left it out by the tree for Finn's family to discover. What do you think? And I'm crying, and my daughter Rose is saying, don't cry, Mom.

It's OK. This is exciting. Just a little overwhelming, but in a good way. Norman Rockwell couldn't have imagined a more uniquely American moment. A vision of strength and compassion in one glorious frame. All created by a master of kindness, with nothing more on his palette than a circular saw and an eye for empathy. It's such a small gesture, but it just, things like this really restore your faith in humanity. Like, there's still good people out there that want to do kind things for no other reason, but just to be kind.

For no other reason, which may be the best reason of all. What are you doing, Finney? Do you see her flag?

You're doing so good. Angie Dickinson is a Hollywood star, if ever there was one. And she has plenty of stories to tell, as Mo Rocca found out when he paid her a visit for our Sunday profile.

If you were a critic doing a review of your life so far, what would you say? Oh, my God. That's one lucky bitch.

Well, it's not exactly luck that's had Angie Dickinson turning heads during a film and TV career that's doubled. Tiger, if we'd have met before, you'd have remembered it, right, fellas? As a half-century long master class in the art of seduction. Did you enjoy being a sex addict? Yes. Did you enjoy being a sex symbol?

Yes, I enjoyed it very much. I wouldn't want to be known as only a sex symbol. Right. I wanted to be known as an actress equally or even more so. Like Marilyn Monroe, she was known as the greatest and rightly so sex symbol of all time. Why? Try to do Shakespeare after that.

Angie was always more down-to-earth, rough and tumble than Marilyn. Forget it. You forget it. Willing to go mano a mano with a tough guy like Lee Marvin. Do you consider yourself more of a broad, a dame, or a gal?

Oh, all of the above. She was born Angie Brown in September 1931. Yes, she's 87.

In Cullom, North Dakota, population around 740. I grew up going to movies. My daddy was the projectionist. So we got in for free and I loved movies. It burned down and we cried for a week. Oh, you cried for a week. Oh, it was, I decided to give up movies for Lent since the movie theater burned down. That was your penance.

Be bringing back so many memories that I don't think about normally. After the family moved to California, Dickinson found work as a secretary and competed in beauty pageants, which led to a spot on the Colgate Comedy Hour. And Jimmy Durante was singing with Frank Sinatra. That was it. I was, I said, this is for me.

She appeared in a bunch of TV westerns, then in 1959 starred in Rio Bravo, opposite her childhood hero, John Wayne. Say what? That you loved me. I said I'd arrest you.

It means the same thing. You know that. You just won't say it. My parents were Democrats and I was a Democrat and John Wayne was a Republican. Did you have some trepidation before you met him then? I had trepidation about getting too close to him and ending up discussing politics.

And I was afraid that I was afraid I'd get to like him and that would be a problem. Well, they did a play. Stuntmen taught Dickinson to play poker decades ago. Well, the play was the gin game. Shut up and deal.

Okay. And she's still playing. I played for 35 years with the Gershwin's.

In 1960, she co-starred with the Rat Pack in Ocean's Eleven. She ended up dating Frank Sinatra. We got very close to getting married in 1964. But Sinatra's late night lifestyle wasn't for her. He said, you know, I'm not going to marry an actress. And I said, well, I don't blame you.

I wouldn't wish that on anybody. And I actually didn't want to marry him, so I didn't want him to ask me to marry him because I didn't want to say no to Frank Sinatra. There have long been rumors that Dickinson and President John F. Kennedy had an affair.

Rumors she's consistently denied. There was no reason or no grounds for thinking that I was seeing him and I wasn't. All right. Well, then can I just ask, did he ever put the moves on you?

No. I said, I like it here. But in 1964, a future president, Ronald Reagan, did slap Dickinson across the face in the movie The Killers, which also starred John Cassavetes.

Your east, west, south, and my north. Your chemistry with him in that movie. Yeah, we liked each other, I must say. Do you mean that you liked each other just working with each other or that there was more? No, we liked each other as man and woman and as actors, not romance. It's something in between, right? Yeah. It's not falling into bed with each other, but it's more than just I like working with you.

No, it's much closer than that. Yeah, really, really like each other. Like if things were different, we'd go out. That's chemistry.

Yeah, it happens on movie sets. You know, attractive people. In 1965, Dickinson married one of the country's most successful songwriters. What made you fall for Burt Bacharach?

Well, that's very hard to summarize. He was so different. They separated in 1976. Was there a very happy period?

No, not too much, not too much. He should never have been married. In his autobiography, Bacharach fessed up to his infidelity. He never loved me. I can tell you that right now, the way one loves. He loved in his own way, which is not too good. And so he had no respect for me. Did you love him? Yeah, I liked him a lot.

Yeah. All the stars that never were are parking cars and pumping gas. Police, don't move! In 1974, Dickinson became Sergeant Pepper.

Drop the gun. Sergeant Pepper Anderson on Police Woman. David Gerber was the producer and he said, don't you want to be a household name? I realized I wanted to be a household name. Is it true that there was a surge in applications from women to join the police force?

Yes, there was a surge and a lot of fan letters with that. I became a cop because of you. Dickinson became almost as well known for her appearances on The Tonight Show.

Her chemistry with Johnny Carson was undeniable. I'm fine. I love movies.

I love dinner parties. I love you. Well, you made that in a... Isn't he a sweetheart? In a platonic relationship. Oh, all right.

I mean, not a deep one. Did you and Johnny ever date? We did date. Who broke it off? Things happen.

Angie Dickinson has always been frank in her opinions on sexual matters, including the topic that has roiled Hollywood for the past two years. Hey, can I ask, what do you think of the Me Too movement? I hate it. It's all out of proportion. Like my hand, I say an open robe is not a rape. Listen, I'm sure men misbehaved, but... But I wasn't there. Should we go one more?

Sure, yeah. Dickinson lives alone now in Beverly Hills. Her daughter Nikki from her marriage to Burt Bacharach died in 2007. What are your best memories of Nikki, your daughter? She was very smart and funny and wonderful.

So all the memories of her are my best memories. Born three months premature, Nikki suffered chronic health problems, including severe eyesight loss and Asperger's syndrome. If she hit me, she would hit me out of frustration of not being able to cope with whatever it was, was her problem. She had no coping skills, so she just took her life. She couldn't take it anymore.

Nikki was 40 years old. She was a wonderful, wonderful gift. What do you think about when you look out here? That I hope I never die. Really? Yeah.

It's beautiful, isn't it? And someday I won't have this, but I won't know it. Back to school, words guaranteed to strike fear in the hearts of children, and our Jim Gaffigan. Summer is over. My too many children will finally be heading back to school. I'm not sure why a six-year-old even gets 10 weeks of summer vacation, but I don't make up the rules.

Maybe first grade is harder than I remember. By next week, children throughout the country will be back in school. Well, except for the kids that are homeschooled, they'll be back, well, still home. It's back to school. Back to school is presented in popular culture as a time of celebration for parents.

It's the most wonderful time. Moms and dads are portrayed gleefully dancing as they buy school supplies, as if children starting school somehow means the parents begin some vacation. You'd think parents are just dying to get rid of their children. I mean, we are.

We most definitely are. But sadly, somewhere along the line, back to school started to include parental obligations. Parent coffees, welcome assemblies, curriculum nights. Now the parents have to go back to school. Not only are these fake commitments unfair, it's a real issue when you have five children, which I do. I know some of that's my fault, but my September will be filled with too many back to school obligations. I'm dreading the parent coffees and having to pretend like I'm interested in hearing about where some other dad played golf this summer.

I'm sure to some of you, these commitments don't sound that bad, but believe me, they are. All these back to school parent events not only eat up my precious time, but they dampen the joy I feel in seeing my children leave for school in the morning, right before I go back to bed. Back to school should be for children only. I know my father never had to attend any of these things. My dad never went to a curriculum night, a class coffee, or a parent teacher conference.

I don't think my dad even knew I went to school and I turned out fine. Right? Curtain going up on screen time. An occasional behind the scenes look at the movies. We're delighted to welcome Turner Classic Movies host Ben Mankiewicz. Ben Mankiewicz himself a member of a distinguished Hollywood family as our guide.

Here's the pitch. A Coney Island kid with nothing to lose strikes it big as a Hollywood kingmaker. I got it. For the man on the phone, it's not a story to sell, it's his life. And as a producer and director, now 88. That's the scripts of all the movies I made.

It's one he scripted himself for more than half a century. Tell us your name. Erwin Winkler. What do you do for a living? I make movies. Yeah, he makes movies all right. For 52 years Winkler has backed, bankrolled, and brought to the screen better than 50 films.

Maybe you've heard of a few. Rocky. Raging Bull. The Right Stuff.

The Goodfellas. My films have won 12 Academy Awards. We've been nominated for 55 I think, yeah. 55?

Yeah. An impressive number, especially considering the random way he got into the business. After serving in the army, Winkler says he had no earthly idea what to do with his life. But he was reading a bestseller by Harold Robbins and somehow Erwin Winkler found his calling. I read the carpetbaggers and in it there was a character that was an agent. I thought it was kind of interesting.

I was wearing a black suit and a white shirt and a tie and why not? Winkler became an agent and then quickly started producing films. One of his first was 1969's They Shoot Horses, Don't They? Starring Jane Fonda as a contestant in a dance marathon during the Great Depression.

So why California? You don't freeze while you're starving. It earned nine Academy Award nominations. When I read that script, I said this is really a story worth telling. A few years later, Winkler is sitting in his Los Angeles office when an unknown actor named Sylvester Stallone walks in looking for work. Winkler doesn't have a part for him, but then Stallone says something interesting. He says, by the way, I'm also a writer. Well, I don't know what a writer looks like, but he certainly wasn't it. And he didn't sound like a writer.

His body language was more like a fighter than a writer. But Stallone had an intriguing idea. He told us the story about Rocky. Rocky, it's the chance of a lifetime. You can't pass it by. He said, I'll write the script for nothing.

There's only one thing. If you like it, you have to star me in the film. We gave the script to the studio and they called and said, you know what? Why do you want to make a movie about this broken down fighter? You want to shoot in Philadelphia?

Nobody's interested in Philadelphia. And you want to star who? Sylvester Stallone?

Right. A no name actor who, and he loses in that. And he loses. I love you!

I love you! Rocky loses, but everyone involved with the movie wins. Rocky becomes, by far, the highest grossing movie of 1976, the only one to break a hundred million dollars.

What do we have right here? We have a little fella called Laska. And Winkler and his partner, Bob Chardoff, won best picture and invited Stallone up on stage with them. Next, Winkler takes on another boxing picture, Raging Bull with Robert De Niro as middleweight champ, Jake LaMotta, this time working with a director who would become a longtime collaborator, Martin Scorsese. Marty is never afraid to do anything that's different. He has no fear. I saw him work telephones and make deals like in 15 minutes that were amazing.

Really? Maneuvering and working very clever aspects of different deals and different actors and if he couldn't get it done, I don't know who would. Case in point, Scorsese wanted Raging Bull shot in black and white. The studio balked. This was 1980, not 1930, but Winkler had his back. The executives hated the script. We all had a meeting up in Marty Scorsese's apartment. They were asking about the black and white and then Irwin pointed out, he said, look at the other two films are in black and white.

There were hits, Lenny and Paper Moon. Okay, pull that out. They were coming up to cancel the film. Right.

But he never let us know that. That's a good producer. Yeah.

Ten years later, they teamed up again for Goodfellas. What do you do? What? What do you do?

I'm in construction. Telling the story of the rise and fall of mobster Henry Hill and again they battled executives who he says pressed for Tom Cruise and Madonna to play the lead roles. I said, you mean you want Madonna to play the Jewish wife of Henry Hill? Lorraine Brocko.

Lorraine Brocko, we said no. Marty started laughing and we left and he said, what about Tom Cruise playing Henry Hill? No. So just to be clear, Warner Brothers wanted Tom Cruise and Madonna in Goodfellas.

Yes. Winkler says he also wasn't sold on Ray Liotta as Henry Hill. Has anybody heard of Ray Liotta at that point?

No, especially me. But Scorsese made a strong case. He was in Venice Film Festival and Ray came up to me and the bodyguards went towards him. And the way he handled that I thought was very, very telling. There was a slight threat in his body language countering theirs. And you liked that. Yeah, that's the guy.

And I told it to Irwin. Nearly 30 years after Goodfellas, Winkler, Scorsese, and De Niro are reuniting again. For The Irishman, the film about the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa.

Whatever you need me to do, I'm available. Also stars Al Pacino and Joe Pesci. You're proud of The Irishman. I think it's terrific.

And I think it's also the coming together of people that have worked together overly since we're kids together. So you actually do most of your writing outside? Yeah, right out here I have a kind of a happy chair and it's quiet as you can see. Quiet and quite comfortable at his Beverly Hills home.

Winkler doesn't just direct and produce, he writes too. No thoughts of retiring? None at all. I'm healthy, my mind is good I guess. And why not?

I think age is just something, it's a number. And it depends on whether the number is going to keep you down or keep you up. I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening. And please join us again next Sunday morning. See you next time.
Whisper: medium.en / 2023-01-27 22:04:06 / 2023-01-27 22:22:55 / 19

Get The Truth Mobile App and Listen to your Favorite Station Anytime