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CBS Sunday Morning

CBS Sunday Morning / Jane Pauley
The Truth Network Radio
November 17, 2019 11:53 am

CBS Sunday Morning

CBS Sunday Morning / Jane Pauley

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This broadcaster has 342 podcast archives available on-demand.


November 17, 2019 11:53 am

In an interview with Mark Phillips, author John Le Carre discusses his new novel, "Angel Running in the Field," which examines how the British public is being "bamboozled by people with private interests," and European allies are being turned into enemies.



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I'm Jane Pauley and this is Sunday morning. Venice is enduring another round of exceptionally high flooding today, threatening countless historic buildings and precious works of art. Fixing the damage may well require the services of experts in making the old new.

Experts like those our Lee Cowan has been talking to. As saltwater seeps into some of the most historic places in Venice, art lovers are on edge. The job of preserving and restoring masterpieces falls to art conservators who ever so delicately are up close and personal with works like this almost on a daily basis.

You have to kind of separate yourself in the moment or you'd be constantly in a state of fear. The fine art of keeping fine works of art looking their best ahead on Sunday morning. He's a legend of broadcasting, not to mention a very good friend of long standing. His name is Tom Brokaw and this morning Tom and I are doing some catching up.

There is a welcome new addition to this set, a kind of dawn in itself. It is Jane Holly, of course. It's been more than 40 years since Tom Brokaw and I first appeared together on television. I was watching you interview the new Miss America and this poor woman being grilled within an inch of her life. You said you were opposed to the use of drugs, smoking, abortion, and you weren't even certain about the ERA. And I did everything but ask her who paid for the cupcakes, you know.

A chat with an old friend later. Think boxing is a sport strictly for the guys? Kellefisane has a different view from ringside. The world of boxing is a tough place, but these two women have battled their way to the top. Typically fans love seeing someone get knocked out. It's a brutal sport.

I don't know why people want to see people get knocked out. Ahead on Sunday morning, a fight for respect. Mark Phillips is in conversation with author John le Carré. Jonathan Vigliati offers us a spoonful of honey. James Brown profiles a driving force in women's golf. And more, all coming up when our Sunday morning podcast continues. Once again today, flood waters are ravaging Venice, the jewel of Italy's Adriatic coast. At risk are scores of historic buildings with equally historic interiors, many filled with precious artwork. That got us thinking about the people whose job it is to keep fine works of art looking fine.

Lee Cowan reports our cover story. Italy's floating city. It's slowly succumbing to the unrelenting wash of the Adriatic. One of Venice's landmarks, St. Mark's Basilica, is among the hardest hit by the recent tidal surge. Worshippers replaced by water.

Experts can't be sure of the extent of the damage until the flooding recedes. But if any city is prepared to save its treasures from rising water, it's Venice. Art conservators like this one continued working even as the flood waters crept across the floor. It's that kind of quiet dedication to preserving paintings and art. A dedication to preserving paintings both old and new that we sometimes overlook when we're walking through a museum. Paintings like all of us age and change. Dirt and grime are the more common enemy, far more so than flooding or fire.

So I have to build it up slowly if I put up too much in it. That's what makes professional art conservators like Rona Macbeth at the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston as valuable as the art they treat. It's the artist's intent that drives all of this. As best we possibly can, we want to be true to that idea of artist's intent. What we're trying to do is take away the barriers between the artist's original vision and the viewer.

To begin removing that barrier is a delicate process, but it's a bit indelicate to demonstrate. She uses her own spit. Why? Why use saliva?

It's an incredibly effective enzyme for removing grime off the surface. Is it really? Yes, and it works incredibly well.

They ever get a dry mouth working? Yep. You have to kind of separate yourself in the moment or you'd be constantly in a state of fear. Allison Langley is head of painting conservation at the Art Institute of Chicago where they're working on any number of paintings including this massive 17th century French masterpiece. A lot of what we do as conservators is a little bit like CSI. We use ultraviolet light, x-ray, infrared to examine the surface and to look below the surface.

Okay, that's good. Francesca Casadio is using something called macroscopic x-ray to analyze individual pigments. So we get some yellow, some green. In this case, the pigments in a Vincent Van Gogh.

What does it actually tell you? The makeup of the paint? It tells us the makeup of the paint. The chemicals? The chemicals in the paint.

Really? Those chemicals are important because some of the paints that Van Gogh used are discoloring over time. The yellow leaves, for example, in this work, Fishing in Spring, are now more of a mustard color. So all of these leaves would have looked more like that?

Would have looked more like this, yes. Van Gogh's reds have faded too. Through digital imaging, computers can show us what his bedroom series may have actually looked like when Van Gogh painted it. Instead of the blue walls that we see today, the pigment may actually have been a little closer to violet. One of the joys of computers is we can change them back without touching the painting. We can do reconstructions digitally. Even more recent pieces, like this priceless Jackson Pollock, need some TLC.

Although this is perhaps a little less scientific. Do you ever wonder what Jackson Pollock would think of what you're doing to his painting? Always. And actually, when you're working on any artist's work, you wonder what they would think. But I think the idea of somebody taking the time to conserve his work, making it last for posterity, I think he'd be thrilled. Chris Stavroudis was hired by the Museum of Contemporary Art in Los Angeles not too long ago to make Pollock's drips and dribbles look as vibrant as the day he drizzled them. It's a very interactive process. And intimate, it sounds like.

Incredibly intimate. It's always funny to think that I'll have spent more time looking at this painting than Jackson Pollock ever would have. Still, there are those who say fine art should just be left alone. That any fading or dirt or even damage is part of the natural life of a painting. You're making choices all the time. And one very legitimate choice is to do nothing.

But you have to understand what that choice means. It means accepting the appearance of something which is potentially very different than how it originally looked. The restoration of the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, for example, was often the subject of sometimes angry debate. Some claim Michelangelo's frescoes were restored too much. But in the end, the hope of almost any artist is that their work stands the test of time. And the science of conservation is and has always been the art of keeping time at bay. We're in conversation this morning with John Le Carre, the Cold War spy novelist who is now taking on the hottest political issue in Britain.

Our Mark Phillips has paid him a visit. Once a place like this might have given John Le Carre refuge from the world of espionage and intrigue he's so often written about. Not anymore. Walking through an English garden, you'd think the world was not so bad a place. You would think that, yes. And of course it's the kind of garden in my imagination where Brexit was born. In a place like this? Yes, a gentleman owns everything he beholds and sees this paradise about him and thinks, how can we let those bloody foreigners in?

Le Carre is 88 now and 25 years later, 25 novels, 10 films and six TV adaptations later, he has new villains. The people trying to take Britain out of the European Union. I'm talking about Brexit. I'm talking about the difference which Americans also know very well between patriotism and nationalism. A patriot can criticize his country, stay with it and go through the democratic process.

A nationalist can criticize his country. Look at his feelings about Brexit are well known. He's against it. He's joined street demonstrations demanding the chance to vote again in a new referendum.

Have a vote and revoke. Now that the potentially damaging consequences of Brexit are better known. But the problem, he says, is bigger than that. I think to have abandoned our allies effectively in Europe, to have actually turned them through the rhetoric that's thrown around into enemies, that's something quite extraordinary.

And he's not shy about getting those opinions into his new book. The first reference to Brexit I think is described the absurdity I think is the phrase you use. It was much ruder than that. Let's call it that.

Yes. Let me just say first of all that always in always in my books I've tried to live the passion of my time. And in this case I felt very deeply, I continue to feel very deeply that the British public has been bamboozled by people with private interests.

So to get that feeling to invest the argument in characters rather than just stand on the soapbox, that was my job. That's always been Le Carre's job. Times have changed since we first met him in the mid-1990s at his seaside home in England's Wild West country. The Cold War had been declared over. The books he had written there based on his own experience as a British spook, the spy who came in from the cold, Smiley's people, and all the rest seemed like old news.

Several had been made into films and TV shows and seemed like relics of another age. Vladimir was the best source we had on Soviet capabilities and intentions. He was close to their intelligence community and reported on that too.

Oh jam it George, that whole era is dead. And so is Vladimir. And I wish to God we got half his courage and one tenth of his integrity. Le Carre was a one-man spy fiction industry back then. Joseph Conrad wrote about the sea because he was born to the sea. I was recruited very early into the secret world. I would copy Conrad in that respect. The secret world was my natural element. I was in it for those years and I understand its workings as he understands the sea. But even then he saw that the future looked a lot like the past.

It doesn't matter what new circumstances occur. It's the same show running in the background. It's the same people running it. I mean you look at the new so-called Russian security service.

It's just the KGB in drag. And the Russians are back in his latest book, Making Trouble Again. Do you feel you've kind of come full circle? I think the first time we spoke was when the, you know, when history was allegedly ending and you were moving on to other stuff and here you are again talking about the same sort of things. Yeah well first of all I never subscribed to the view that history had ended and in fact statistically the size of intelligence services in every country has grown enormously since the end of the Cold War.

It's the same game but played for different purposes and by different rules. There's still plenty of history to go around. Le Carre has not mellowed with age and American politics don't get an easy ride in his new book either. In Ed's world there was no dividing line between Brexit fanatics and Trump fanatics. Both were racist and xenophobic.

Both worshipped at the same shrine of nostalgic imperialism. Le Carre has tried to stop writing and speaking out but says he couldn't. Is there another novel in you? Yes there's very much another novel in me.

It gnaws away. Another novel and more after the recent success of a TV version of The Night Manager. An offer to do what? To bring down Richard Roper. I want to put you inside his operation. How very good to see you Mr Roper.

I'm the night manager. And after the successful run of the new TV treatment of The Little Drummer Girl. The enemy is using westerners so must we. What's the character? A terrorist.

Le Carre is now working on more TV treatments for some of his early spy novels. There's still a lot he wants to say. Britain is famous used to be for common sense and and centrist. Political compromise.

Yeah it's gone. So what do you do? Well agitate. I keep on writing.

I'm 88 so my range for the future is strictly limited. You better get cracking. I better get cracking. I have no time. I have no time to die either. I suppose I'll have to. Not yet let's say. Thanks.

This is The Takeout with Major Garrett. This week Stephen Law, ally of Mitch McConnell and one of Washington's biggest midterm money men. List for me the two senate races where you think republicans have the best chance of taking a democratic seat away. Nevada, New Hampshire. Not Georgia. Well Georgia's right up there but New Hampshire is a surprise.

In New Hampshire people really just kind of don't like Maggie Hassan. For more from this week's conversation follow The Takeout with Major Garrett on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Can a spoonful of honey actually extend your life? Well some folks on a certain Greek island believe it can and to hear Jonathan Vigliati tell it they have a tasty argument. Not far from the picture-perfect tourist hubs of Santorini and Mykonos where cruise ships unload tourists by the thousands sits another Greek island. More rugged but no less remarkable Ikaria is off the beaten path. Up the winding mountain roads of this isolated isle you're likely to notice these brightly painted boxes dotting the landscape. And what's happening inside those boxes is generating some buzz. Bees busy making a rare honey that locals believe is one of the secrets to a long life.

We suited up to get a closer look. Do you think that your honey helps the people here live longer? Beekeeper Andoni Caramalas explains that people on the island have been eating the honey for generations to keep healthy and strong well into old age.

109-year-old Yaya Duanna at work in her weaving studio agrees there's something special about it. So does 87-year-old beekeeper Giorgios Stenos. Do you eat your honey? You see far-smelly soup? Coffee, every day. Every single day.

I go through one of these almost a week. Chef Diane Cochila says she has a spoonful every morning. So when the locals here say it's like their medicine, their daily vitamin, there's truth to that. There is truth to that. And the local older guys say it's nature's Viagra. To our knowledge, that claim hasn't been tested. But research has found that people here have among the highest life expectancies in the world.

And the University of Athens concluded that Icarians are more than twice as likely as Americans to reach age 90, often in better health. What was it in Mary Poppins? Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down with a spoonful of honey. You don't need medicine.

That's good. For centuries, humans have valued honey for its medicinal properties. And in Ikaria, known in ancient times as the healing island, the honey is different from that found on most supermarket shelves. What makes a carrion honey so unique? First of all, there's no industrial farming on the island.

There's not very few commercial undertakings whatsoever. So nature is pretty pure. As a result, the pollen and nectar collected by the bees is free of chemicals and pesticides normally found in commercial or private farming. And unlike most honey sold in the US, Ikarian honey is also unheated, unfiltered and unpasteurized, all processes which can destroy the natural vitamins and minerals.

In other words, it's going from the bees to somebody's mouth. And only is just facilitating where they go to the beach. David Kahn and his wife, Robin, are also helping to spread the word. The American expats who moved to the island a decade ago for a simpler life introduced Andoni to a distributor in the US. And when we first came, we had a lot of friends that would want the honey because we had it at our house. They were like, what is this? It's so great. So we kept he kept going up to Andoni's all the time.

And they said, where can we order this stuff? So it's basically been a very well kept secret. That secret now, perhaps a little less well kept. How do you feel about word spreading? I have to be honest, that's a double edged sword, because we want to share, of course, the goodness.

But we also want to retain the purity of the place and keep it more or less as it is. To a Washington that last week saw hours of televised impeachment hearings and the conviction of Donald Trump ally Roger Stone add one more ingredient. That new tell all book by anonymous Major Garrett has our Sunday Journal. President Trump is a threat to America. That is the thrust of a warning on sale Tuesday and written by an author described only as a senior Trump administration official. That cloak of anonymity is the same one the writer wore in a New York Times column last fall, which argued the president is a moral. Mr. Trump's response to that op-ed this tweet. An enormous, really an enormous, gutless coward.

Reince Priebus was the president's first chief of staff. Do you have any idea who it is? No. Do you think this writer is a coward? Yes.

Because? I think it's improper. I think it's dishonorable. The White House agrees. Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham called the book a work of fiction. CBS News has not confirmed the identity of the author or the claims he or she makes. Nobody really knows whether these quotes or these accusations are true because we don't know who it is.

There's no way to judge the veracity of what this person is saying. In the book, Anonymous writes that cabinet officials considered resigning en masse, a so-called midnight self-massacre, to call attention to Trump's misconduct and erratic leadership. Also on the chopping block, the vice president, quote, on more than one occasion, Trump has discussed with staff the possibility of dropping Vice President Pence in advance of the 2020 election.

No, that's the part of this that I think is the most out of touch part of the book. We thought Priebus would know most about this passage. Anonymous writes, everyone is the chief of staff, but the chief of staff. Donald Trump is the chief of staff. The kids aren't the chief of staff. All the rest of the folks are. Random Fox News hosts are not the chief of staff. Trump is the chief of staff.

He fears nothing and nobody. Is that a good quality for a president? I think in some cases it is.

I guess in some other cases, you know, maybe it's a challenge. But he is the person in charge. And I think any assertion otherwise is just pure fiction. The president's the quarterback. He's the center.

And the running back. See, he plays every role. That's unusual, though, is it not? It is, but he's a force of force in nature. Well, I shouldn't be.

Thank you very much. Anonymous appears to confirm the outlines of the Ukraine controversy at the heart of the House impeachment inquiry. American presidents don't implore foreign leaders to open investigations into domestic political opponents, Anonymous writes. We learned that given enough time and space, Donald J. Trump will seek to abuse any power he is given. It's quite an accusation. Wow, that's heavy.

Well, it's also loaded. The president's the fulcrum. He's got the authority to be the director of the orchestra. And that's how I think he views the presidency. And I think in most cases he has the authority.

The author claims Mr. Trump considered naming undocumented migrants enemy combatants and even sending some to Guantanamo Bay. Anonymous writes that Mr. Trump is a bully, go home to mommy, who lacks presidential judgment and a basic understanding of government. But Priebus says President Trump's instincts got him where he is. What makes him who he is is also what makes him electable to the American people.

Donald Trump's strength comes from being Donald Trump. And I think he knows that. On this Sunday after Veterans Day, special correspondent James Brown is honoring a driving force, a woman who uses golf to heal service members who've sacrificed so much for our country. There you go.

Good. Oh, go in, go in, go in. It's a beautiful day for golf on the Clearview Golf Course in East Canton, Ohio. But for these women, being here is about much more than sinking putts. You look at that little white ball. It's very little. You don't think of anything else when you're trying to hit that ball. Good putt. The women are part of Clearview Hope, the first golf program for female military veterans in America.

It's freedom. You can look at your other comrade, your other sister, and you know what she's saying without even saying a word. These veterans have served in far-flung places like Vietnam, Korea, and Iraq, and their service has taken a toll. From sexual assault to post-traumatic stress, from sexual assault to post-traumatic stress disorder. What were the biggest challenges associated with being in the service as a woman?

I had to work two times harder to get those who are higher ranking than me to understand that I'm good enough to be there. So you see the lines on your putter? One woman, 73-year-old Renee Powell of the PGA of America, decided to help these women heal. She started the veterans program eight years ago and is the golf pro and co-owner of Clearview. Everything they've done throughout my life has always been connected with golf. And then my biggest passion is this golf course that my father began building in 1946. Her father, Bill Powell, was a World War II veteran who returned home and was denied entry to local golf courses because of the color of his skin. He built Clearview so that Renee and her brother Larry would not have the same barriers.

I grew up here. My dad put a golf club in my hand when I was three years old and I've been playing golf ever since. With support from her mother, Renee's father built Clearview on his own, mostly by hand.

It took him 30 years of plowing, planting and seeding to turn a former dairy farm into this beautiful 18-hole public course. Her brother Larry has been the head groundskeeper of his family plot for all of his life. What continues to drive you and Renee to do this?

When you're born into something you want to see things go proper and right and that's what drives you. While Larry stayed home to care for Clearview, Renee Powell found she had a special talent for the game. She became a top amateur and captain of the Ohio State golf team. Were there circumstances that you had to persevere and overcome at the collegiate level? I was the top female amateur golfer in the state of Ohio but I was never able to play in our Ohio Golf Association tournament because they played at private clubs and I wasn't allowed at private golf clubs. Powell did not let those roadblocks stop her. In 1967 she turned pro and became the second African-American to play on the LPGA tour where she faced new challenges.

We traveled through the south a lot and so there were like threat letters on my life or refused you know at restaurants. So after you retired from the tour you stayed involved. Why? Because I love the game of golf. After 13 years on the tour Powell retired and became an international ambassador for golf for decades teaching golf in Africa, Asia, Australia and Europe. It's beautiful, yes. Powell's contributions have gained her recognition here at the birthplace of golf, St Andrew's Scotland.

She allowed us to tag along on a recent visit. I'm in the middle of writing my autobiography. The last chapter is going to be about the kingdom of Fife and all the things that have happened to me here in St Andrew's. What has happened in St Andrew's is amazing. In 2015 Powell was among the first class of women to gain membership into the most exclusive club in the world, the 265 year old Royal and Ancient Golf Club. Aubyn Stewart-Wilson sits on the club's membership board. In Rene the club wanted to recognize her pioneering playing career, her selfless work in pursuit of equality and also doing so much particularly for younger generations. In 2008 Powell received an honorary degree from the University of St Andrew's and last year the school made her the first American in its 600 year history to have a residence hall in her name. Sally Mapstone is the university's principal. Rene was the person who absolutely stood out for me. She represents what is very dear to St Andrew's which is diversity, inclusivity and a natural pride in great achievements.

She believes in hope, ambition and thinking about yourself within the context of others. Even on this trip to St Andrew's, Powell was thinking of others. She arranged for her women's veterans group to travel to Scotland. She surprised them when they arrived to stay in Powell Hall.

The group played on the historic old course and had tea at the university. You were unselfish in bringing your women veterans here with you. What are you hoping the takeaway will be going back to Clearview? I know the takeaway is going to be so positive for them and to realize how much they are appreciated. Back at Clearview, the veterans definitely appreciate being on the first golf course designed, built, owned and operated by an African American in the United States. We want to keep this going for Rene, for her, Larry and Mr Powell. I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening and please join us again next Sunday morning.

Now streaming. I used to believe in progress that no matter what we do, we just end up back at the start. We're in crazy time. The Paramount Plus original series, The Good Fight returns for its final season. The point isn't the end. The point is winning. There are bad people in the world. The best way to protect the good people is to convict the bad. So here's to us. The Good Fight, the final season, now streaming exclusively on Paramount Plus.
Whisper: medium.en / 2023-01-28 01:16:28 / 2023-01-28 01:27:39 / 11

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