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I'm Jane Pauley, and this is Sunday Morning. Welcome to the Oscar issue, our annual look ahead to Hollywood's big night. To all the challenges movie makers already face, you can now add one more. How to depict life's intimate moments on screen without crossing the line. And rising to that challenge are professionals well versed in the words advise and consent. As Rita Braver will report in our adults only cover story. American actors have long been doing steamy sex scenes, but Emily Mead found herself anxious about her work. Some people might say, hey, this is what they sign up for. Come on. They know what they're getting into. I wasn't signing up to be an exploited porn star. I was signing up to play one.
Where on your thighs, legs, is it okay for him to touch and how so welcome to the era of intimacy coordinators later on Sunday morning. Our Sunday profile is of Tatum O'Neill, an Oscar winner in childhood who's found adulthood a tougher role to play. She'll be talking to our Tracy Smith. Tatum O'Neill was a movie star at age nine and an Oscar winner at 10. Then things got complicated. What does it do if you start your career, first movie you're in, boom, I think it really screws you up.
Tatum, an Oscar, ahead on Sunday morning. Their longest battle is a story from David Martin, all about a just released movie that relives a day of combat and its aftermath. It tells the true story which began in Vietnam. American soldiers taking heavy casualties when an Air Force pararescue man descended into the hell of battle. When you saw him coming down from that helicopter, what did you think?
I thought it was crazy. The Courage of William Pitsenbach, later on Sunday morning. A veteran movie choreographer who still has all the right moves.
We'll be sharing a few of them this morning with our Christine Johnson. She danced in Viva Las Vegas, sang a number one song in the 80s, even choreographed films from American Graffiti to Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Las Vegas High, the remarkable career of Tony Basil, ahead on Sunday morning. Lee Cowan takes us to a small town theater now playing the classics and more, all coming up when our Sunday morning podcast continues. The words advise and consent are more than the title of the 1960s movie, about political intrigue. They could also apply to the job a growing universe of advisors performs during intimate scenes on movie sets.
You may want children out of the room for our cover story, reported by Rita Braver. In From Here to Eternity, to Body Heat, to Sex and the City. In Hurleywood, steamy scenes have been an accepted and expected part of what we watch. But in the era of Me Too and the Time's Up movement, there's a new focus on how these scenes are made. You basically raised your hand and said, look, I think we need to have more rules about how we shoot these scenes. Emily Mead played Laurie Madison, a prostitute who becomes a porn star on HBO.
The Deuce. But in 2018, as the show's second season started, she felt increasingly anxious before shooting explicit scenes, many that we can't show on Sunday morning. Some people might say, hey, this is what they sign up for. Come on, they know what they're getting into. Sure, but there's a safe and safe place to be. There's a better way to do it and a worse way to do it. I wasn't signing up to be an exploited porn star.
I was signing up to play one. What was the response from the producers when you raised this? I would like to think they would have responded this way, even no matter what the time was. But I think, especially in this moment, they were nothing but, yeah, open and receptive to that. Mead says her request for help also came in the wake of Christmas. The quest for help also came in the wake of criticism of the show for continuing to employ one of the series' co-stars, James Franco, after several young actresses accused him of sexual misconduct.
Franco denies the charges and neither Mead nor anyone on The Deuce said they'd experienced any problems with him. But within a few days of Mead's asking, the producers hired Alicia Rodis. I'm pretty sure no intimacy coordinator was brought on any mainstream show until I got on The Deuce. An intimacy coordinator, her job to learn the director's vision and then confer with each of the actors to map out every move during a sex scene. Where are your boundaries? What are we okay showing?
What are we not okay showing? Rodis is a pioneer in her industry, one of the founders of Intimacy Directors International, established in 2015. It all began when she and some colleagues who worked as fight scene directors started thinking about how sex sequences, which can be risky in a different way, were staged. That violent scenes we could choreograph, we could talk about, but when we got to intimate scenes no one really knew how to approach it or really have a common language about it. And the interesting thing is that we had already created our company well before Me Too happened.
But the industry had not embraced the idea until HBO's The Deuce. So these are kind of the tools of your trade? Yeah. Rodis even provides protective gear for actors on set. Different cups, different sort of modesty garments for them. So in this scene with Ryan Farrell and Emily Mead, there was a hand that went to his crotch to his pelvis and so you know we knew that we were going to have a barrier for him so Ryan had a cup that he wore.
What are some of the ways in which you feel like she made a difference? Having somebody there to help with the communication part allowed me to be a lot more honest and in the end it's not that I actually didn't do anything that was ass it just didn't feel scary. And if you're wondering whether intimacy coordinators inhibit sex scenes, I would have taken it off. We asked the director of several steamy Sex and the City episodes, David Frankel. I just worked for the first time with an intimacy coordinator on the show I'm doing now for Netflix and it was a eye-opening wonderful experience. All the discomfort that I had felt in navigating sex scenes with actors I no longer had to do. Frankel directed films like The Devil Wears Prada which had very tame encounters and Hope Springs where Meryl Streep and Tommy Lee Jones definitely got into it without an intimacy coordinator but now he says he always wants to work with one. Some directors are saying hey they're figuring out how to make scenes even sexier are you seeing that at all?
For sure the intimacy coordinator is standing watching at the monitor as we're rolling and she'll say wow we can make that hotter so all those things combined make the intimacy coordinator spectacularly helpful. There are infamous examples of films that pushed actors too far like 1972's Last Tango in Paris once lauded for its sexual audacity. Actress Maria Schneider later charged that director Bernardo Bertolucci and co-star Marlon Brando made her feel abused and humiliated and some of that still exists today. What are the kinds of things that you've heard from actors over the years that have made them uncomfortable? You know it ranges from the the just really awkward and uncomfortable to finding tongues in your mouth when you didn't expect a tongue in your mouth and it goes all the way up the scale to you know full-on sexual assault. How do you feel about Martin's hands on your face? Yeah yeah I agree.
But Claire Worden says the climate is changing dramatically. An intimacy coordinator for film, tv and Broadway she finds that more and more actors expect sets to be safe spaces. This work and this discipline is understood and being requested and becoming part of the actual standard of the industry. Just last month the Screen Actors Guild announced new guidelines calling for intimacy coordinators to be used for any scenes involving nudity or simulated sex. How high up is too high here and young actors like Martin K Lewis and Ebony Flowers say it's not just protection for women. It gives me the freedom to be open about the boundaries I have or the fears that I have working with my partner.
And also I imagine at least I mean in the age of hashtag me too like having protection for that navigation of the experience is really important for the guys and these equations too. The overall conversation has been so much more honest and open and I think that's how things get changed. And as for the actor who helped start it all you have become kind of the patron saint of the intimacy coordinator movement.
Thank you but I like that idea. Now playing at a small town theater, big budget Hollywood movies presented by a film buff determined to defy the odds. Lee Cowan has saved us a seat. If you call the Firehouse Theater in Kingston, Washington. Star Wars will play Sunday at 12, 3 15 and that's a special costume show.
You'll get a personal message. See you at the movies. From the projectionist himself, Craig Smith. I walk into the grocery store here and they ask me what's playing. I'm a walking billboard you know.
Marquee. I'm the movie guy. You here for Little Women? That movie guy.
Two of you? He's also the ticket guy. Enjoy the show.
Thank you. The popcorn guy. And you said yes to butter right? And in some cases. I'll get the door for you. He's even the door guy. This isn't just a business to you is it?
Correct. It's a passion. At 65 Craig has loved movies his whole life. Going to the movies as a kid seemed like a turnstile to another world. Where shall I go?
What shall I do? Frankly my dear I don't give a damn. I remember first time I saw Gone with the Wind. I remember getting in trouble because I sat through it a second time. You watched eight hours worth of Gone with the Wind?
Yeah, yeah I did. He became his high school soccer coach. We have to set up the Oscar party. He's also married to his high school sweetheart, Becky. Maybe the only thing he loves more than movies is her. So she wasn't surprised when about 10 years ago he took a leap of faith and turned Kingston's old firehouse into its only movie house. It was risky. Kingston only has but 2,000 or so residents.
It sits on the shores of Apple Tree Cove just across Puget Sound from Seattle. It's known more for its fairy turban than its downtown nightlife. But, Craig persists. So where there's some raised eyebrows though?
Friends and family saying are you sure you want to do this? Oh yeah, you know you always get that but you know even if you fail at least you tried. Try he did.
You get a hug. And succeeded too. See you out at Albertsons. Right, yeah. At least in making his movie house feel more like a home. This place is so special. It's just a cozy community theater that you don't find anymore. Little things matter in a little theater like real butter on the popcorn.
Freezing his junior mints for the real candy connoisseur. Welcome everybody to the firehouse theater. And greeting the audience in person. Star Wars The Rise of Skywalker. He comes in and gives you a little personal account of the history of the movie. He's got the Beatles and David Bowie singing some of their famous songs in German.
And how they made it, who the actors are, actresses. And he does it for every show. Even if the theater is practically empty. It's a great community service that he does for us and I think it's hard for him to keep it open. That's the worst kept secret in town. This has got my life savings wrapped up in it.
It's about a half a million dollars. Run out of money a few times and had to renegotiate a lease and use some credit cards. You know you just keep plugging on. Craig's movie margins were already as slim as the 35 millimeter film he used to run. Then Hollywood made him go digital.
This is how movies are distributed these days on hard drives and the new projectors set him back years on his debt. And that was a choice of bankruptcy or not to be honest. He even stopped taking a paycheck and the stress soon took its toll. I did have a heart attack here. But you were at work? Yeah I was up in the projection booth not knowing I was having a heart attack.
He came back to work after that probably earlier than he should have and word soon got around. People are saying when you go you need to buy popcorn you need to buy hot dogs. Two hot dogs. Two hot dogs okay. And a glass of wine.
You need to do everything to support him. Thank you. Fans of the firehouse aren't about to let it go up in smoke. They've just set up a GoFundMe page and organized volunteers to help behind the counter. It was instantaneous.
We had a bunch of folks really interested right away and it just sort of blossomed after that. If Craig ever thought his little theater didn't matter. Oh my word.
Let's watch what happened the day he hosted a Star Wars costume party. Uh oh. Be good.
It was pleasantly chaotic. Here you go. Thank you. I can't hear a thing. The wine was out the door.
You already got your ticket? It's really touching. They're wonderful people. The movies are meant to be an escape. A chance to forget about our problems in the dark for a while.
But for Craig Smith his little movie house has proven that there are plenty of fairy tales off screen as well. I got a Frank Capra life here you know. I get to do what I enjoy in life. You can't have it any better than that. Welcome everybody to the Firehouse Theater.
It's a really nice life. Great costumes everybody. Thanks so much for being part of this. This is Intelligence Matters with former acting director of the CIA Michael Morell. Bridge Colby is co-founder and principal of the Marathon Initiative. A project focused on developing strategies to prepare the United States for an era of sustained great power competition. The United States put our mind to something we can usually figure it out. What people are saying and what we kind of know analytically and empirically is our strategic situation our military situation is not being matched up with what we're doing.
Follow Intelligence Matters wherever you get your podcasts. For years after the war ended a group of Vietnam veterans waged their longest battle. That fight on behalf of a fallen comrade has even inspired a movie. David Martin tells their story. You've probably never heard of William Pitsenbarger. He died more than half a century ago at the age of 21 saving Fred Navarro's life among others.
If it hadn't been for Pitsenbarger there ain't no doubt in my mind that I wouldn't be here. In 1966 Navarro was a soldier in Charlie Company which suffered 80 percent casualties 80 percent in a Vietcong ambush. This sounds like absolute hell. It was people moaning praying calling for their mother. As depicted in a new movie The Last Full Measure William Pitsenbarger an Air Force pararescue man descended into that hell. It's all true and most of it happened. This project started over 15 years ago.
Todd Robinson wrote directed and produced The Last Full Measure. It's really not about William Pitsenbarger it's about the effect that he had on the living. I've had PTSD since that day.
I've had some very bad times but I always think of Pitsenbarger. Pitsenbarger was lowered through the jungle canopy to treat and evacuate the wounded. As he was coming down through the trees I just happened to be the one that met him and we became friends real fast. When you saw him coming down for that helicopter what did you think?
I thought he was crazy. Navarro was wounded and in the movie Pitsenbarger drags two dead soldiers on top of him as a shield. He not only pulled those two dead Americans on top of me he took his armored vest off of himself and put it on my chest. He gave you his flak jacket.
Now that's crazy you got that on for a purpose but he gave it to me. Pitsenbarger put nine soldiers on litters so they could be hoisted out of hell but when his crew signaled it was time for him to come up he refused. He didn't want to leave us. In fact at one point I asked him why are you here? And he said because you're here.
Todd Robinson was just a kid when this happened. He learned about it 30 years later from the survivors of the ambush. It was just phenomenal to sit with battle-hardened men who would weep openly in Beverly Hills restaurants or on military bases or wherever we might find them because this was such a powerful experience for them. You made a promise to these guys.
Yeah. What was the promise? The promise was that I'd get this story told on behalf of them. It was as simple as that.
It wasn't hard to make that commitment to them although it didn't occur to me it was going to take 20 years. Working on an indie budget he assembled A-list actors to play the veterans. Peter Fonda and what turned out to be his last name, Ed Harris, William Hurt, and Samuel L. Jackson, among others.
How did you afford all those big names? Well nobody worked for their price. They were all old enough to know what Vietnam had done to this country and to the soldiers who fought there. To a man they wanted to pay tribute to those sacrifices that people that they knew made. Pay tribute to those sacrifices that people that they knew made on behalf of the rest of us.
No one was more moved at the first screening of the movie than Peter Fonda. He couldn't speak. He literally couldn't talk to me. He was just the tears were running down his face. Pitsenbarger was killed fighting off the Viet Cong. The survivors recommended him for the Medal of Honor but it was downgraded to the Air Force Cross. But the story of William Pitsenbarger would not die.
What kept it alive? The veterans kept it alive. With the advent of the internet a miracle happened and the miracle was that the wives of a lot of these veterans started to connect through email and they started to realize from one another that Pitts never got the medal. Some of the paperwork had been lost.
Whit Peters was Secretary of the Air Force in 1999. Some people thought it had been hidden by the Army. Why would it have been hidden by the Army? Well, I think there was a belief that this Operation Abilene, which is where Pitsenbarger was killed, was an embarrassment to the Army because they sent in this Charlie company to go out and find the enemy and what they found was an ambush and about 80 percent of that unit was killed or wounded in action.
Peters knew injustice when he saw it and set out to fix it. There was some real time pressure because Pitsenbarger's father was dying of cancer at the time so the hope was if we were going to do this we would get it done while his father was still alive. Scott, I have cancer.
In the movie, Pitsenbarger's father is played by Christopher Plummer. Dying isn't harder than losing a child, I promise you. Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. There wasn't enough time left to schedule the traditional White House Medal of Honor ceremony. So I was lucky enough to have the honor fall to me. In December of 2000, the ceremony was held at the Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio, with survivors and their families flown in from all over the world.
After the battle, we never saw each other again until then. The place was full to overflowing with people whose lives Pitsenbarger had touched. There are about 300 people there that would not be alive as of 2000 had their parents not been saved by Pitsenbarger.
By then, Pitsenbarger's father was in a wheelchair and had to be helped onto the stage. Distinguished visitors, ladies and gentlemen. The loss of his son probably was the worst thing that ever happened to him and so while he was proud that his son had performed courageously in battle, it was still the worst thing that ever happened to him. Now we have with us today some of the veterans of Operation Abilene. When Robinson reenacted the ceremony for the last full measure, he naturally brought in all the stars for the crowd scene. But he also brought in all the survivors of the battle.
There's Fred Navarro, front row aisle seat. I award the Medal of Honor. The speech the actor Linus Roach gave was the same speech Secretary Peters gave. Bill possessed the ultimate courage. Anyone who has been touched or moved in any way...
The reenactment didn't need any more emotion than the original. Would you also stand? I wish he was alive and got the Medal of Honor and that I could meet him. If you could meet him today, what would you say to him? Thank you, Pits. Thank you for saving my life. Tatum O'Neill won hearts and an Oscar for her childhood performance in the movie Paper Moon.
A mixed blessing at best, as O'Neill tells Tracy Smith in our Sunday profile. She was a child star in every sense. Tatum O'Neill was only nine when cameras rolled for 1973's Paper Moon, but she stole nearly every scene. If you don't give me my $200, I'm going to tell a policeman how you got it and he'll make you give it to me because it's mine. But I don't have it. Then give it to me.
Playing opposite her dad, superstar Ryan O'Neill and directed by Peter Bogdanovich, it was Tatum's first ever film and it wasn't easy for her or anyone else on the set. I don't want you smoking in the car tomorrow. What?
I didn't say nothing, I'm just listening to you. A lot of those takes took 40 takes. 40? Oh yeah. I didn't really read very well during the film. Those are pretty good towns in there.
We could do some business in there. Everybody hated me. It's not fair. Everybody hated you? Pretty much, yeah.
On set? Yeah, until they saw like what they had and then they were like, oh now we love her. And at the Oscars in 1974, the Academy loved her too. The winner is... Tatum O'Neill. Did you have any idea what a big deal it was winning that Oscar at age 10? No.
No, I didn't. Still, she was pretty poised for a 10-year-old and her acceptance speech was an example of brevity that winners tonight could probably learn from. All I really want to thank is my director, Peter Bogdanovich, and my father. Thank you. Her next film was nearly as big as an ace little-eaver opposite the great Walter Matthau. Walter Matthau. I'm a bum. No, you're not. You taught me how to pitch. You taught me how to...
Damn it. Can't you get it through your thick head that I don't want your company? And there were other roles after this, but perhaps none equal to the promise of her first film. What does it do if you start your career, first movie you're in, boom? I think it really screws you up. Case in point, I think I would work consistently, but I suck at auditioning. So the fact that I can't get myself a job because I can't... The fact that I can't get a job because I can't audition properly is funny to me. So you've worked on this auditioning thing because you didn't have to audition coming out of the gate.
Correct, yes. You sort of want me, don't you? Of course, she still found other work and time to play. As a teenager, she was seen at all the right places with other famous faces. You know, you dated Michael Jackson, you're partying at Studio 54, you're hanging out with Cher. Yeah, I was an adult.
I didn't see a problem with it. It was just when they had to get a crane to get me out of Cher's house because, well, because she had like a really amazing family. Like she had her mom and her sisters and all these amazing women. And I'm like, wait, there's no women at my house. Well, there are, but they come and they go every day.
Dad's girlfriends kind of coming and going? If you want to call them that. But Cher was like stability for you? Totally. But the instability in her life took a toll professionally and personally.
Tatum O'Neill has always been remarkably open about her struggles with addiction and her bitter divorce from tennis great John McEnroe, with whom she has three kids, Kevin, Emily, and Sean. But now at 56, she says her biggest challenge ever is her latest one, rheumatoid arthritis, a disorder that can make every move a painful struggle. What does that mean for your daily life? That means that my hands stopped working. It means that, I mean, I can't tie my shoes.
I have to relearn to write and I definitely need surgery on my left knee and my neck coming up in the next week. And through it all, she says her daughter, actress Emily McEnroe, has been her rock. My mom is incredibly loving. She's childlike and always childlike and always has been just bright.
My mom lights up every room that she enters and that's true. I don't know why you're embarrassed. No, that's such a sweet thing to say and I'm not embarrassed. I'm actually very, that's a nice thing to say.
By the way, Tatum says that she and Emily's dad are on good terms now and that having her three children may have saved her life. I was really ready to kind of fall down and not get back up. I was not myself. I was at 22 and then the kids gave me a kind of a real reason to keep going and fight.
And still the happiest times of my life were the times that I was married, funny enough. So sometimes we think we're making the right decision and maybe we aren't and I have to live with that too. What do you mean? What decision? Well, to leave my marriage. That maybe looking back it wasn't the right decision?
Perhaps not. I was loved. I was cared for.
I was, um, that's it. That's what one wants, isn't it, in a marriage? I've never met anyone who even comes close to my ex-husband. He's happier and I'm happy for him and that makes me happy, so. Her relationship with her father seems a bit more strained these days.
They teamed up for a reality TV show in 2011, but since then it's been, well, complicated. What I love if my dad and I were closer? There are no words. He was the first love of my life, but sometimes things don't work out the way you want them to and I can love unconditionally without reciprocal.
And I think my dad does love me, so that's what I, I tend to believe, even though we don't talk as often as I would like or see each other as often as I would like. And you can bet that Tatum O'Neal will keep trying with the same grit that she showed on screen 40 years ago. And the belief that there are bigger prizes still to come. Do you dream of winning another Oscar? No.
No? No, because that's not why I'm in it. Would I like that, I guess? For me, the biggest achievement would be that I, that I did the best audition that I could do, that I got the role that I really wanted, and that I'm self-supporting through my own contributions. How do you see your future?
I think the best years are still ahead of me. How about that? How about that?
I do. As always, on Oscar Sunday, here's David Edelstein. The smartest advice I've gotten about betting on the Oscars is, don't put your money on what you like best.
You're just begging to lose. The trick is to project yourself into the head of the average Academy voter, who, wanting you to keep buying tickets, is trying to project him or herself into your, the average moviegoer's head. So it's a nutty feedback loop. Though some people have said, why would they nominate junk like Joker?
No one has a clue, especially me. But I do know Joker won't win Best Picture, which is fine. I thought it was one unpleasant note hit harder and harder. But Joaquin Phoenix will take Best Actor because he's the best unhinged movie actor in the world, and he's never had a part with fewer hinges.
Cementing the idea that borderline personalities are in is the lock for Renee Zellweger in Judy. My mouth's dry and it couldn't fall apart. Listen to me. I can't. The best supporting turn was by Joe Pesci in The Irishman in a non-Joe Pesci role, conflict averse.
You're going to have to talk to him and tell him it's what it is. But I'll still be thrilled when Brad Pitt wins for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Are you an actor? No, I'm a star man. Laura Dern has won every other award as a calculating divorce lawyer in Marriage Story.
God is the father and God didn't show up. But the twice-nominated Scarlett Johansson could sneak in as the classiest character in the slapstick Nazi-weeper Jojo Rabbit, a hodgepodge that's well-liked in Hollywood. I love my country. It's a war I hate. It's pointless and stupid.
And the sooner we have peace, the better. Best director? I predict Bong Joon-Ho for Parasite, with its surreal metaphor for income inequality. Beautiful people on top, underclass below and underclass under the underclass, waiting to pop out and say boo. But best picture?
1917, the kind of movie Hollywood adores, state-of-the-art, wedded to old-fashioned, lump-in-the-throat antiwar melodrama. New and old. That's what they like. That's what they think you'll like. I'll be watching for the edgier stuff, the complaints about lack of diversity, Netflix, the president, don't forget him, and also to see how presenters address the legacy of Kirk Douglas. You will see a longing for change side by side with a dread of change.
Bed on it. I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening.
And please join us again next Sunday morning. Hi, podcast peeps. It's me, Drew Barrymore.
Oh my goodness. I want to tell you about our new show. It's the Drew's News Podcast. And in each episode, me and a weekly guest are going to cover all the quirky, fun, inspiring, and informative stories that exist out in the world because, well, I need it. And maybe you do too, from the newest interior design trend, Barbie Core, to the right and wrong way to wash your armpits. Also, we're going to get into things that you just kind of won't believe and we're not able to do in daytime television, so watch out. Listen to Drew's News wherever you get your podcasts. It's your good news on the go.
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