Training the Next Generation: 10 Years of Reformation Bible College

R.C. said, it's not enough to simply believe the Gospel, but we must be prepared to defend it, to contend for it, because it's God's truth. An interview with Vesta Sproul, next on Renewing Your Mind. Well, it is not often that we hear from the co-founder of Ligonier Ministries, but we are pleased to feature her today, and to help me set this up is the president of Reformation Bible College, Dr. Stephen Nichols. Steve, as our listeners know, this is the 50th year of Ligonier Ministries, but there is another special anniversary that's being marked this year as well.

That's right, Lee. While Ligonier celebrates 50 over at Reformation Bible College, we turn 10. And you know, it's very apparent to those of us here at Ligonier that the story of R.C. Sproul is in fact the story of R.C. and Vesta.

And while that is true of Ligonier, it's also true of the college that R.C. founded, Reformation Bible College, and from the beginning and right at his side has been Vesta. So it was a real treat for me on the occasion of our 10th anniversary to sit down with Vesta and talk to her about her perspective on RBC. I've been looking forward to this, Dr. Nichols, and without further ado, let's hear that interview. It's great to spend some time with you, Vesta, and I'm really looking forward to this conversation about the college. Let's start, though, with Dr. Sproul's college experience.

He's spoken of it so many times. It was very pivotal, a lot of key moments happened. But just your own reflections on the college years of R.C. and how important they were to him. Well, they certainly were meaningful to him. The first week of his freshman year of college, he was converted there. And so, of course, that was huge to him. And in high school, he slept through lots of classes and so on. And it was like all of a sudden this spark went off for him when he got to college. But I think it was because of his conversion. I believe he thought he was going to study history when he went to college. And he got into a philosophy course. It was something he had to take.

And it opened up so many Vistas for him, things he had never thought about, things he didn't realize, the beauty, the depth, the grace of God, all those kinds of things. And I think particularly maybe it was studying Augustine. He sat through that class. When he left, he went straight to the registrar's office and changed his major. And in fact, I don't believe they had a philosophy major there at the time. He was a pioneer.

Yes. He was the first one to graduate with a degree in philosophy. And he became so that he loved learning. And it just was the most wonderful experience, the opening of his eyes to the beauty of truth in all its aspects and all that. So it was very exciting for him. And then after graduate school and so on, he got to go back and teach for a year. And that's every college student's dream is to go back to your alma mater and teach.

And so he had that opportunity too, which was just terrific. Now before we get to his college teaching, let's go back to his college, because you mentioned one significant milestone was his conversion. But there was another significant moment in his college career. I think it happened between his junior and senior year over the summer.

Oh, yes. Well, Arcee and I went together from the time we were in seventh and eighth grade. And we had always planned that we would get married when he graduated from college. However, I was a year ahead of him, and as my graduation was approaching and he would still have another year, Arcee's mother and my parents said, we think you should get married after Vesta graduates.

You've waited long enough. And so that's what we did. I loved being married and being on campus, and I got to work at the college for a little while. And it was a small town college, and it just was wonderful to be with the students that Arcee had been with for three years.

And I got to be involved in that. And it was just a time that was particularly special to us. He has spoken and written so many times of the Augustine class that you referenced. He talks about his bachelor's thesis and reading Moby Dick. He talked about his professor, Dr. Gregory, and the influence that Dr. Gregory really is probably one of his first mentors in the Christian faith and academics. And so it really was a formative, just crucial moment for him as a college student.

That's right. And Arcee's advisor, it was sort of a random kind of thing. He didn't choose the advisor or the advisor or him, but God had chosen a vibrate because he was a fine Christian man. And he did teach philosophy, but he happened to be teaching one section of Old Testament or New Testament.

I'm not sure which it was. And he not only led Arcee in his ideas about philosophy, he also was the start of Arcee's Bible learning and so on. And in fact, Dr. Gregory married us.

Aw, sweet. So after college, he went on to his seminary and then he went to graduate school in Amsterdam. And then as you have already referenced, he was invited to return back to teach for one year at his alma mater. And then after that, he went up and taught college at Gordon College. So could you reflect a little bit on really that was his beginning of his academic career, a little bit of his career after his studies, and he started as a college professor.

That's exactly right. And at Westminster, where we lived was on the campus and so we just had lots of students there. And mostly they would come after dinner because there were enough of them. I didn't want them there for dinner, but I did make cookies and all that kind of thing.

But they'd come and we had prayer meetings and we had question and answer sessions. And it was so much fun, but often the students would stay till midnight or after. And Arcee would have to get up for his eight o'clock class, but his students could sleep through that class if they didn't want to come, if they'd been up too late. But not the professor.

No. The professor had to be there. So that just was, again, I think that if you were to ask me what did Arcee most like about teaching, it was the students and the teaching. He liked imparting knowledge to them that would allow them to be able to defend the faith and to understand it at a deeper level than they had before.

You know, I found something, Vesta, actually you sent it to me. It was an old syllabus from his contemporary theology course taught fall term, 1967, by Professor Robert Sproul. And he's going through all the material on the course, has all the typical syllabus elements to it. But then he adds something in its final note, classroom procedures. And he says, I enjoy a casual and informal atmosphere in the classroom. Well, that's no surprise.

We could have all guessed that. And then he says, freewheeling debate and questioning is welcomed. It is hoped that no student will ever hesitate to ask questions in class. Questions from the students is the only barometer outside of exams by which the professor can measure the degree of understanding the class has attained. That sounds like the Q&A sessions he had back at Westminster. But then he adds this.

My only request is that students retain their dignity at all times and exhibit a high degree of courtesy within the classroom. So he must have just loved not only, of course, he had his material he wanted to teach, but he must have just so enjoyed interacting with students about that material to make sure they were really getting it. Oh, exactly.

So much so. Well, he adds one more thing here. He says, also, I would like to personally invite any student who so wishes to make arrangements to visit me in my home. And then he gives his home telephone number in the syllabus, and then he gives his address. So I'm assuming these Gordon students came over for cookies and... They did, but not as much.

We lived much further away from the campus. But also at the college campus and Gordon Seminary were on the same campus, and those people had cars and so on. So we had a lot of interaction with college students. Same thing, prayer meetings, question and answers, cookies, and all that kind of thing. Recurring themes.

Yes. You know, as I'm listening to you talk, it sounds like this is actually the beginnings of the Ligonier Valley Study Center. It's funny you say that, because I was just thinking about the people that came to our house at Gordon and at Westminster were students who were serious students and all that. And so we thought when we started the study center, oh, we loved it so much.

This would be no problem to have people coming into our homes and all that to do the study center. Well, let's go back to this idea of RC and college. He started Open the Doors of RBC in 2011. Now I've heard him say, and he's said this often, that a big part of this was a trip that you all had made one of the Ligonier tours to Calvin's Geneva. And Dr. Sproul would say, I don't even have to close my eyes.

I can just see it. Yeah. And he was talking about the stones that made up the Academy of Geneva that Calvin had founded. Why did RC start RBC in 2011? Well, there were several reasons. Among them is what you just spoke about Calvin's Geneva. It was a small school, but the ripples that went out from there, what that meant in church history, the people that graduated from there, the books that were written by people who went there, that kind of thing.

For such a small place, it was an enormous impact on society. And he wanted the gospel and God's sovereignty and the holiness of God to go out further always. That was his desire. So he wanted to train college-age students to be able to defend their faith and to understand it. And so he thought that that was a great thing to do. And it was Calvin's Geneva, Luther's teaching, the impact was so great that he thought, why wouldn't we do that here?

Why wouldn't we train up these students? And you know, for a while, RC had taught in seminary for several years. For a couple decades. And yes. And then when he was doing it full-time, all of a sudden he said, you know, this is kind of boring. These people already think they know what they believe.

And so he said, I'd really, I'd like to get teaching. Back to undergrads. Yes. To undergrads. They're like sponges. They are.

Undergrads. Yes. Let's get them before they're too well-formed in wrong ideas. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think not only is it the ideas, they also respond to one who wants to help them truly understand. And I think that goes back to that first year of teaching at Westminster College of recognizing that it's in those question and answer sessions, it's in those prayer times while eating cookies together, that you can begin to see the application of this truth. Exactly. And I think that excited him.

You had mentioned a couple of things that I think are just worth picking up on. One was, it doesn't have to be big, you know, he would say this isn't, and a certain demographic understands this reference, but not all demographics do, but he would say it doesn't have to be a Cecil B. DeMille cast of thousands, but it really can have an impact on a, if it's a small group, but a committed group. And that's what he saw here. You know, it was before I came down here full time, I was invited down to speak at one of the convocations. I think it was the second convocation and Dr. Sproul and I were sitting in the vestibule. We had our academic regalia on and the students came out to line up in the NorthEx for the processional. And honestly, he just beaned.

I just saw his face light up. You know, when RBC first opened, of course, it was one building and everything was in there. The professor's offices, the student lounge was the kitchen, and the classrooms, and we were all in one building, but here we are, 10 years later, God has blessed us with this beautiful, stunning campus here in Sanford, Florida. We have a quad. We have the new Founders Hall with our library and our rare book room and a cafe and of course more classrooms.

And we're watching it go up right before our very eyes. The student housing, 76 beds, and hopefully, Lord willing, fall of 2022 will welcome students on our campus. But as you look at RBC, and of course, we can look at the buildings, we also need to think about the students, but as you look at RBC, here it is 10 years later, what are your reflections on it and what does it mean to you as you look at RBC and this college that was founded back in 2011?

One thing I think of, which is what RC would think of also, is that we're sending more laborers out to the vineyard. And I just am so pleased with the caliber of the students, their seriousness. Not that they're not fun. They're very fun. They do like to have fun.

Oh, they do, very much so. But I love that, again, the interrelationship of the faculty and the students. There's a mentoring that goes on, not just the teaching in the classroom, but there's mentoring that goes on there.

And it means very much to, I think, almost every student. I keep thinking that, isn't it wonderful that God's allowing us this, that the college is, with buildings and so on, is growing, and also with students. And we've made strides in, if some seminaries say, we will take your students before they finish their fourth year, because they've seen the kind of students we're producing. So here we are, ten years, we think of these students, we've got a number that are in seminary, a number have graduated from seminary and are ordained already, serving in pastoral ministry.

Two are on the mission field, which is just really exciting, just graduated. One of our young ladies this spring, and she's headed to Liberia with Rafiki, which of course is a ministry that means a great deal to you and to Dr. Sproul, meant a great deal to him. It's also very exciting to see we've got students graduating who are teaching in classical Christian schools. As we sort of wrap things up here, what are your hopes for the future of RBC? What do you think Dr. Sproul's hopes were for the future of RBC and for the students that God blesses us with? Well, my biggest hope is that the school will remain faithful to the foundational values and truth that we started with. And I think that I want our students to go out and that their dealings with other people will have been impacted by what they learned here, knowing what it is God requires, and having enough foundation themselves to not only know it, but to do it. So I'm not a visionary by any means, but I like what we're doing and I hope we can keep doing it.

But as we've done it through these 10 years, there have been good additions like curriculum, what we're going to teach and that kind of thing. So it's not like I want us to stand still. I want us to keep going. Yeah, you know, Dr. Sproul often, as you mentioned, he would say, here I stand does not mean we stand still. Exactly.

It means we stand firm. Well, I think that's true. And I think that RBC would be, and I certainly am pleased with the leadership, as I said, that our students will give in whatever their area of calling. But I think that at RBC, they've been given the tools to winsomely articulate and defend what they believe.

R.C. said, it's not enough to simply believe the gospel, but we must be prepared to defend it, to contend for it, because it's God's truth. Well, this has been a real pleasure to just reflect back on the beginnings, actually go back to the college years of both you and Dr. Sproul. And I know he's your favorite subject to talk about.

Yes, he is. So I just want to thank you for this time, Vesta. Well, thank you. And I give God the glory for this because it's only through his working that the college is where it is. And we appreciate the staff and the faculty who are just outstanding. What a treat this has been to share this conversation that Dr. Stephen Nichols had with Vesta Sproul. And Dr. Nichols joins me here in the studio again. And Steve, Vesta said it so well when she said, it's important not only to know the faith but to defend the faith. And that really brings two of R.C.

's favorite subjects together, doesn't it? Theology and apologetics. Would you help our listeners understand why this is so important for us as believers, especially today? Well, Lee, RBC certainly has R.C.

's thumbprints all over it. And it is important to know what we believe. We're talking about loving God. Ultimately, we're talking about worshiping God. But it starts with knowing God.

You know, R.C. would say this all the time, Lee, it starts in your head and then it goes to your heart and then it transforms your life. So we're trying to do that at RBC. But we also recognize, we all see it, this moment we live in culturally of the need, the urgency not to just know what we believe, but be willing to defend it and contend for it. We can't think of a more urgent task than to train the next generation in what we call apologetics, being able to give an answer for the hope, an answer for the gospel. And so, you know, by God's grace, this is what we are doing at RBC, equipping students to know what they believe and why they believe it. And the truth is, this is important for all of us as Christians in this moment that we live in, to be able to not just know the Christian faith, but be equipped to be students of God's word so that we can defend it, too. I know you are so grateful for the prayerful support of people who've come alongside the college over these last 10 years. You couldn't have made it to this point without their prayerful support.

What are the needs now? Well, Lee, we have the Every Generation Campaign at RBC, and I love that name because it shows the obligation that each generation has to train the next generation and to recognize that as we have benefited from great teaching and great teachers, that we need to invest in the next generation. And so, we've set up the Every Generation Campaign. You know, in many ways, we've been talking about what we do at RBC, but we also need to talk about how we do it, and we do it, first and foremost, by God's grace and by His goodness to us, but we also do it by partnership, by partnership with those who pray for us and by those who come along and support us, who recognize the strategic investment in the lives of our students. You know, Lee, I think about this. We train our students for a year or two or four years.

There's a lifetime of impact that comes from that. And so, if you're able to come alongside us and help us at RBC, that's how we do what we do here on the campus of Sanford and what God's doing in the lives of our students. And if you are able to partner with us, let me give you a couple of ways you can reach us with your generous gift. One is by phone.

Our number is 800-435-4343, but you can also go online to renewingyourmind.org. Dr. Nichols, I know that you all are in the hustle and bustle of this first semester of this academic year, but I know how much you appreciate the support of people who've come alongside you. And you speak for the students, don't you, when you share that gratitude?

That's right, Lee. One of my favorite things to do is say, on behalf of a grateful student body and faculty and staff, thank you. Thank you for your prayers, and thank you for your support at RBC. You are standing with us in this work, and we are so grateful. And again, if you would like to come alongside Reformation Bible College with a generous financial gift, our number again is 800-435-4343, and our web address is renewingyourmind.org. Renewing Your Mind is the listener-supported outreach of Ligonier Ministries. Thank you for joining us, and we hope you'll join us again tomorrow. God bless you. God bless you.