The Gospel in the Trenches

I had four months with me, the soldiers, camels, the whole nine yards. And I said, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. Few people today understand that exhortation better than the chaplains who serve in the military. They have answered the call to minister to those in uniform, but they have to be careful about how they do it. That's because there are those who want to limit what chaplains can teach, so they need our prayerful support and encouragement.

We have the many resources we produce and publish, and we want to let you know how you can join us in that effort. First, though, we'd like for you to hear a conversation that Ligonier President Chris Larson and I had with retired Army Chaplain Douglas Lee. Chaplain Lee served for more than 30 years in uniform and rose to the rank of Brigadier General. After retirement, he served as executive director of an organization that oversees the selection, placement, and care of chaplains from several reform denominations. I began by asking him how and why chaplains play such a vital role in the military.

Well, there are several answers to that question. We might just begin with saying there's a constitutional and First Amendment requirement here in America, which is wonderful and allows us liberty to have a freedom to be able to speak about the gospel there. So when a soldier, airman, sailor, or guardian is across the sea, they can't go to their normal place of worship, and so chaplains are allowed by our Constitution to provide religious support for them. But of course, wartime is a time when there's an intense and tremendous amount of thinking going on in a troop's mind about where he is, what he or she is doing, and what might happen to them. And so the chaplain is there by God's grace to, as we say, bring God to man and man to God. In that process, we nurture the living, we care for the wounded, and we take care of the fallen, honor the fallen.

And so those things all together in a time of war become very, very significant. And the stories are just legion of the number of troops who have been influenced by chaplains in the field as they are together in this very unusual, intense environment. And I'm sure daily you're receiving reports of God's grace in the field, aren't you? Indeed we are, from multiple baptisms to overflowing worship services, but also those little tiny moments when a chaplain's out there with a tiny unit with four or five people on a Sunday morning or Saturday night, and they're just enjoying the good things of the Word. And I've seen pictures in the field that these baptisms that take place are out in the desert anywhere they can find water, right? And for our Baptist friends, of course, they have to have a little more water, but for us Presbyterians, they might put water in a helmet or a glass and use that. The good news is it doesn't matter what amount of water there is necessarily, but people are coming to new life in Christ.

Yeah. Well, we're going to hear some more of those reports in just a moment, but also joining us is the president and chief operating officer of Ligonier Ministries, Chris Larsen. Chris, what was the impetus for Ligonier's involvement with Chaplain Lee and the other chaplains who were serving on active duty?

Much like Doug just mentioned, the reality is the time-worn statement is true. There are no atheists and foxholes, and that these are souls that need to be cared for. And in a crisis period of time, it's the obligation of the ministers of the gospel to be able to go forth with the comfort of the gospel and to be able to present the claims of Christ to these souls as they are tender and very receptive to hearing the truth of the gospel. Dr. Sproul started this effort decades ago, being able to get Ligonier's teaching series, and it was really just the church carrying it out, carrying out the Great Commission, being able to move these teaching resources that Ligonier has been producing for decades now into the hands of servicemen and women.

I remember maybe 20 years ago, Dr. Sproul mentioned that there was a highly placed Navy personnel who ensured that Ligonier's teaching series were on every ship throughout the entire U.S. Navy fleet. And it was a remarkable testimony. And ever since that started several decades ago, the Ligonier Ministry support family, those ministry partners that come alongside of us as we carry out the work of this mission, they believe in what you're doing, Doug. They believe in what these chaplains are doing. They want to come alongside and strengthen your arms for service. How has Ligonier's involvement made a difference to the chaplains in the field, Doug? Oh, my. We have some testimonies, as you know, and you'll be sharing some of those.

But I wanted to add something to Chris's comments here. You know, at wartime, there are intense moments of activity and adrenaline flowing, and then intense times of boredom. And troops are always looking for ways to fill that time.

They can fill them negatively. But Ligonier literature over all these years has been among the major things troops ask for once they find them, because there's such a variety of things to read. There are deeper theological tomes, but also deep theological things put in simple terms for these troops to read. And so people need to understand that when somebody is away in a faraway place from home, there is time to be reading and reflecting. And to know this literature has been available for all this time is pretty amazing.

I remember just a few years ago when the Afghanistan conflict was really heating up. It was in one of these periods of respite that a picture came to Ligonier, and there was an infantryman sitting in the desert reading Table Talk magazine, just sitting down, leaning against his backpack, and enjoying a daily devotion with Table Talk. It was just so encouraging to us.

Classic picture. I can testify personally that my son, who was an army artillery officer in Iraq some years ago, had a subscription of Table Talk magazine that he relied on daily in his walk with the Lord during that time. He also asked about influencing chaplains. Of course, chaplains are always looking for good things to give people.

They don't want to give stuff that's not helpful and not encouraging. So when you ask about the influence of Ligonier literature on chaplains, you'll see in all the testimonies we hear, if you could see them all, you would see, number one, the personal input to their lives through the incredible variety has been absolutely so encouraging. Ligonier may be the premier place that chaplains in my world go to when it comes to spiritual growth. Over all the years I've been a chaplain, Table Talk was a key part of this because I knew every day I was going to get some vignette, some biblical truth that I could expand on, think about, and the extra articles in Table Talk in particular were a part of my routine.

And so the personal growth that literature has provided has been incredible. But then when the chaplains can then share that with wonderful books, that just makes their job easier and we can go on talking about the effects. Well, we mentioned that we have some testimonials from the chaplains who've served in the field in combat situations. Let's hear from one of those chaplains right now.

My name is Jim Carter. I'm the pastor of New Presbyterian Church in Pompano Beach, Florida. I served in the military for about 23 years on active duty and roughly about two years in the reserves. Right on the border between Saudi Arabia and Iraq, I had four months with me, the soldiers, camels, the whole nine yards. And I said, Lord, what can I do? One day in the middle of the desert, there was mail call.

And as you have heard stories about the military, mail call is a big deal. And so I showed up and they gave me this huge box and I opened it up and there was holiness of God. I was deeply appreciative and indebted to Dr. Sproul as my seminary professor, but also as a person who was impacting my life and hundreds of others out in the middle of the desert in 1991 and has done that ever since. Chaplain Lee, that's one of your chaplains. He's retired now, but I should point out that Chaplain Carter served not only during Operation Desert Shield, and that's what he was referring to there in that mail call situation, but he also served two years in Iraq, retired as a chaplain colonel. This is something that meant a lot to him.

Oh my. The others of our almost 300 chaplains were sitting in a room, they would just say, amen, amen to what he just said, because they've all had experiences like this, where in some moment one of Ligonier's boxes would come to them, or some church sent a box full of stuff and it happened to include all kinds of Ligonier literature. Those stories just are all over the place. There are times when I've come to some of these chaplain meetings with you, Doug, and have been able to meet some of these men. And they've begun sharing some of the strains that have entered into the chaplaincy. We understand that this is probably a time where the chaplaincy has been stretched more and more, almost to the point of breaking, both with long deployments as well as with some of the other pressures about what they can and cannot say. Well, you touched on a very important subject, reminding us that there's all the more need now for good literature to be sent out among the chaplains and their troops. We are living in a changing American culture. The chaplains are on the front edges of that cultural change because the military is a cross-section of America, and they have to deal with some of those changes in very unique ways.

But again, I just say we don't need to despair. Faith comes through hearing, hearing by the Word of God. And when we get literature out that proclaims the good news in its varieties of ways from the Scripture, that gives hope to our chaplains and encouragement and enables them to be bold. Well, related to that, Don't Ask, Don't Tell was repealed in 2012. Since then, homosexuals have been allowed to serve openly in the military. And Chaplain Lee, you were quoted in 2011 that you were concerned that the new policy might force chaplains to compromise their beliefs.

Has that been the case? The danger is out there definitely for compromise. I never really worried about our chaplains compromising their faith, but it had to do with a culture of fear that was laid on over the military where commanders and other senior leaders now don't quite know what the religious lines are, what can they do, what can they not do when it comes to proclaiming religious things. How will the issue of homosexual serving in the military, will that affect religious liberty somehow if they don't like what a pastor preaches or says? I'm happy to say today that 99% of our chaplains and the evangelical chaplains in the military have not had direct attacks on them, partly because we have this wonderful First Amendment protection. However, there are issues and examples I could give you from the enlisted and line officer world in which some people have had to make some serious decisions about this. And the culture of fear, which of course is promoted by the evil one, can affect chaplains too.

And it can affect their boldness. All going back to our discussion today about the need for good, strong literature to be out there and for our chaplains to have resources in which they can be emboldened and reminded of God's grace. We just want Ligonier to be a spiritual supply line for these men. It is that. And these challenges that we've been talking about provide your chaplains, Chaplain Lee, with great opportunities for the gospel. Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely. I just came from a wonderful event at one of our major Army posts, and you can have various kinds of events to support religion in the military from ecumenical events, but you can also have faith-specific events. And this was a Christian prayer breakfast that I was asked to come and share. And of course, it's a voluntary event for the soldiers to come, but there were 150, 200. I came into a young West Point graduate lieutenant singing praise songs with a sergeant next to him standing. The commander came in and talked about his strong faith and how excited he was just to be a soldier. And in these times, the event was very, very positive and open. And that liberty still exists, but not everybody has those same feelings and thoughts. And there are still those across America who just assume there not be chaplains in the military, or they want to dumb down chaplaincy, or they want a generic chaplaincy.

And so those forces are very much at work. Another chaplain who appreciates this partnership with Ligonier Ministries is retired chaplain Colonel Andrew Zeller. And here's what Chaplain Zeller had to say about the Ligonier resources that meant the most to him as he ministered to the troops.

They're very valuable. Having something that you can leave with soldiers and encourage them to read it, to study it, to have devotion times like table talk, they're very valuable. I think probably one of the most significant studies from R.C. that helped me in my ministry was a rather older study, Surprised by Suffering.

And I went through that many times. And understanding God's role as our sovereign Lord in times of suffering was extremely valuable. Understanding that there is a plan, and because God is sovereign and there is a divine plan, there is purpose in their suffering and purpose in even the violence and the trauma that's going on around them. That if God is not sovereign, and this is something R.C. presents in that study, if God is not sovereign, then there is a good chance there's no purpose in our suffering. But because He is, there is not just a chance, but there is the absolute hope that what we go through here on earth that are difficult situations has purpose.

That goes back to what we were talking about earlier. Chris, I believe you mentioned there are no atheists in foxholes, but Surprised by Suffering is a resource that really can help chaplains minister to those troops who are trying to find meaning to what's going on around them. Oh, absolutely. That's just one kind of book, but there are many other books and booklets that have been out there to encourage our man thinking about those big questions about their own personal suffering and about suffering of a nation, the suffering of a unit that might be having difficulties or losing a lot of people.

That's a big subject, and these books are incredible help. Chaplain Lee, what about the emotional toll that this has taken? We focused on the soldiers and the chaplains there to support them, but I would imagine that the multiple deployments, the horrors of war, have had an impact on the chaplains themselves.

How are they dealing with this emotionally? Well, thankfully, we have seen a strong faith makes for a strong response and strong chaplains. And so I think overall we've seen our chaplains handle some of the stress as well. But we have chaplains, too, that are affected by PTSD. Well, we have chaplains who are post-traumatic stress syndrome. We have chaplains who are especially ministering to those that are struggling with those issues, and they become affected by the struggles of their troops out there. So a chaplain has to work very hard on a balanced life. And frankly, I have to go back to the literature.

Literature, like they've been getting, helps them to have a balanced life. I'm reminded of one of Dr. Sproul's heroes, Thomas Stonewall Jackson, a devout Calvinist and Presbyterian, and he had a remarkable courage in battle. And I just remember that one quote where his men saw him going into battle with really unflinching confidence that he knew what he had to do and had purpose about what he was doing. Someone asked him about this, and he said, My religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time for my death.

I do not concern myself about that, but to be always ready no matter when it may overtake me. And then he added that if all men lived with this kind of faith, they would be equally brave. And we might add, then, that there are no equal faiths. There is only the Christian faith that can provide this kind of confidence for our troops. And we see what the chaplaincy is providing to even the troops as giving them the basis for bravery. Absolutely.

Oh, I could go on. We could go on with that discussion and topic, because we find the military struggling so hard to address issues like sexual harassment, but also the post-traumatic stress issues that they're experiencing and the moral injury of men. And at the root of all the issues that our troops are facing, post-war is a spiritual issue, is not a strong faith in this postmodern age. They don't know what they believe in.

And it changes from day to day. And so Stonewall and that comment is a comment that any of our chaplains would concur with, because it's their belief of a sovereign God and their belief that God does all things well and their belief of God's understanding of sin and what needs to be done about it that gives them encouragement and hope. There's a lot more to say about that subject, but I appreciate you bringing that quote up. Share with us, if you will, Doug, an anecdote from one of your chaplains. A phone call, an email, a face-to-face conversation with one of your chaplains that really moved you about why you do what you do.

Oh, boy. When I get a call from a chaplain and he's been working with a particular person that God has brought him, and he tells me that he's had quite a bit of time with this person, and then wouldn't you know he decided to give his life to Christ. Now, I get that's kind of a generic answer to your question, but that's the kind of comment that I get frequently. But then some of the comments I've gotten recently, for example, one of our chaplains, John Sackett, Air Force in New Mexico, says one of his military members was heading out the door to go on a trip, and he said, hey, chaplain, give me something to read from my two weeks at school coming up. I gave him, quote, how to develop a Christian conscience and what is the church, from Ligonier.

He returned and a week later came into my office asking if we could meet regularly. Sharing that he had never really taken his Christian faith seriously, he explained that those booklets showed his need for discipleship and further study on what is Reformed theology and how he can lead his family as a spiritual head. That is enjoyable pastoral counseling. That's just a sample of the calls and emails that I get as they reflect on this. And at our annual conference where Ligonier comes and they share some of the new books maybe or booklets, that's when the chaplains just rise up and say, yes, these books have been so incredible to me all this last year, and thank you for the new books.

I mean, those are common comments. Yeah, I remember, Chris, seeing you make a presentation to these chaplains, and on each and every one of their faces I could see the gratitude that they had for what you were providing, what Ligonier was providing for them. At these gatherings of your chaplains, Chaplain Lee, I want you to kind of clear up a misconception that maybe folks who have never served in the military may have about chaplains, that they may serve, as they say, in the rear with the gear. But when you go to one of these gatherings of these chaplains, you can tell a lot by their uniforms.

A uniform and the ribbons and the other things that are accoutrements on the uniform tell a lot about where a soldier has been and what he does. These chaplains are on the front lines. Many of them are airborne qualified.

They've gone to Fort Benning, Georgia, to become parachute qualified. Many of them have served on the front lines. Many of them are prior service.

Yes, all of the above. I was just talking to one of our senior chaplains, a Marine chaplain. The Navy provides chaplains for Marines in Coast Guard and Navy. He's been a Marine chaplain most of his life, and he doesn't say much about this, but I believe the ribbons on his chest, he has the most of any other officer in the Marines because of where he's been and what he's done. Now, he hasn't shot a rifle, but he's been where the action is with the Marines. And you're right, those ribbons do tell quite a story. But even if they don't have many ribbons, the fact that commanders say, look, this chaplain is a combat multiplier.

That sounds odd to say for a guy who's a noncombatant. But commanders say he's a combat multiplier because he helps take care of my troops, answers the big questions, helps me sort through the religious issues of the day. And I wish the audience could come to one of our annual conferences and sit in a room with our chaplains gathered to hear their stories and listen to them talk.

They would just be flabbergasted. I'm sure many of our listeners could not imagine a military without the medical corps right there to be able to help the injured. Can you imagine a military without the chaplaincy?

I can't, no, that's for sure, and George Washington couldn't either, for even before he became a general in the Revolutionary War, he was pining and seeking chaplains for his Virginia troops in the French and Indian Wars. Knowing that the soul of the soldier is critical to encourage and help them sort through the big issues of life. Chaplain Lee, how can we pray for our military's chaplains? Number one, pray for boldness for them, for Satan does go around like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. We are told to be alert. We're told to put on the armor of God because the flaming darts of the evil one are flying around. Today we need chaplains who are not afraid for their career, not afraid for what others might think of them, but that they will simply be bold in all their personal efforts and their group efforts.

That's a critical one. Pray for their families. The deployments are going down. We're not sending as many people back to faraway places these days, but a lot of our families have sacrificed as their husbands have been away. Their families still need prayer for the dramatic things happening in the military and the changes in the lifestyle, that is to pray for those wives and those children.

And then I think churches, individuals, just simply out to pray generally that God might just raise up a mighty host of folk from the military to become Christians, that they would just pray for the troops, that they'd be sensitive to the working of the Holy Spirit in their lives and hearts. Chris Larson, thank you for being with us and sharing what Ligonier is doing to help these chaplains in the field. And Chaplain Doug Lee, thank you so much for being with us, and we appreciate your service to us.

Many, many thanks to Ligonier for their help. Well, today on Renewing Your Mind, we have been talking about the vital role of military chaplains and about the way we can support them on a number of levels. Chaplains are always looking for teaching resources to meet the needs of those they serve. So as they serve, we want to serve them. Sometimes they lack the funds to purchase these teaching materials, so we'd ask that you'd consider a generous financial donation to offset the cost of not just producing and publishing these materials, but getting them into the hands of these chaplains here and abroad so that they can minister to the troops.

Would you help us help them? We encourage you to visit renewingyourmind.org to give your gift. Right now, there are nearly 200 chaplains who are enrolled to receive packages containing books and other teaching resources from Dr. Sproul, our teaching fellows, and other trusted pastors and teachers, and we would love to see that number grow. We hear quite frequently from these chaplains who receive these Bible study tools. One chaplain wrote to us and said, Ligonier provides tremendous resources not only for our soldiers, but to feed us shepherds as well.

The audio and video resources, along with publications like Table Talk, are especially helpful in our work. Your gift of any amount today will provide much-needed resources to the front lines, just like you heard in today's conversation with Chaplain Douglas Lee. So help support the troops around the world by giving a gift to renewingyourmind.org. And thank you in advance for your generosity. Well, perhaps you have a friend or loved one you think would benefit from hearing the interview that we featured today. They can listen to it at any time on our website, which is renewingyourmind.org. I hope you'll make plans to be with us tomorrow as we feature a lesson from Dr. Robert Godfrey's series on the book of Revelation. Here's a preview. We have this glorious scene in heaven, God with redeemed humanity, God with His purpose fulfilled in gathering saints out of the Old Testament and out of the new. We will learn about God's heavenly throne room, Tuesday on Renewing Your Mind. .