Coming up next on a special edition of Renewing Your Mind, the much anticipated release of the biography of Dr. R.C. Sproul.
Dr. Steven Nichols, along with a very special guest, and we won't tell you who that is until a bit later on. But Chris, in our 50th year of ministry, we continue to celebrate the life of Dr. R.C. Sproul. It's been more than three years since he went home to be with the Lord, and we are excited today to let our listeners know about a very special book that's just been released. That's right, we are so pleased to have this milestone moment where Dr. Steven Nichols, who had been working with Dr. Sproul for many years in the studio, interviewing him, sitting down with him in his home, talking with Mrs. Sproul and the rest of the staff, and even people who used to work at the ministry years ago, and pulling all of these strands together to now produce R.C. 's Sproul, A Life. It's about a 300-page biography, and for the first time, pulls together all of the threads that you really need to begin to understand the life and ministry of R.C.
Sproul. And he was a trophy of God's grace, and he'd be the first one to point to the work of Christ in his life, and it was R.C. 's passion to promote the character of God and the glory of God above all else. And I think that's one of the things that comes through in this new book, is Dr. Nichols really striving to point to what God was doing in R.C.
's life as a boy, through his family, as he went through high school, as he and Vesta courted and eventually were married, the early years of his ministry and family life, and the formation of this rather maverick group of Christians there in Western PA to begin something called the Ligonier Valley Study Center. And then the rest, as they say, is history, and I cannot wait for our listeners to get a copy of this and read it. Yeah, I'm holding a copy of it here. The title is R.C. Sproul, A Life, and the author is Dr. Stephen Nichols. I do hope that you, our listeners, are able to obtain a copy.
I'll let you know how you can do that later in the program. Earlier, I mentioned that we have a special guest, and you're about to hear her now in a conversation she had with Dr. Nichols. She is the co-founder of Ligonier Ministries, Vesta Sproul. So let's listen to a portion of that conversation now. Well, hello, Vesta.
Good morning. It's so nice to spend this time with you. You know, as I was working on the biography, we spent quite a bit of time together, and just presenting material to you and you sharing stories with me. And I've got to say, writing the biography was just such a joy for me. Well, thank you. I certainly have enjoyed our time together working on it, yours and mine. That was a privilege for me. Well, that's very kind of you. I'm actually sad that I'm not writing it anymore.
I sort of miss it. It was so fun being in Dr. Sproul's life at that level. Well, let's go back to that very beginning moment with you and Dr. Sproul. Now, he's told this story often. He was in the first grade, you were in the second grade, and this is in this delightful little community of Pleasant Hills just outside of Pittsburgh.
And that was the first time you met. Well, that's his remembrance of it, that we were running in opposite directions, I believe, around a building, and we ran into each other. That may be true.
Well, it probably is true. I don't remember it that way. I remember him in about fourth or fifth grade. That's when I first became aware of him. And he just was fun and nice and good at sports, and I enjoyed him. And when he was in the seventh grade and I was in the eighth, he invited me to our annual picnic at a... Kennywood Park right in Pittsburgh, an amusement park. And he asked me two or three months before the thing was to happen, and I said, sure, I know, but I really never expected to because in those ages, those relationships don't last too long. But it came around, and we went together, and we had a great time, and it wasn't too long after that that we decided when we were getting married. But we didn't become really serious until we were 13 or 14. Now, when he tells the story, I think he says that when he met you way back in that first grade, second grade moment, he knew at that moment that you were the girl he was going to marry.
Isn't that sweet? He said that. Well, regardless, it's what turned out, and you've told me this story before, and friends you have, that their children thought that R.C. 's name was R.C. Investa. Yes, we did have friends like that who always heard their parents speak of R.C. Investa this, R.C.
Investa that, and so they thought that was R.C. 's name because we did so much together. People combined our names. As I was getting into the biography, and of course folks know this just because how the two of you have worked so closely together and been together prior to Ligonier, of course, and then throughout the decades of Ligonier. But it was so impressed upon me as I was working through the story that it, in one sense, the story of Dr. Sproul's life is a love story between you and Dr. Sproul. It is.
It is, and you can definitely see it. Well, you both dated through high school and then through college. Now I have to interrupt here.
Yes, please do. What we called it back in those days was we were going steady, but I have to say that I went more steady than he. I was going steady with him.
He said he was going steady with me, but this man who knew from the day he saw me that he was going to marry me wasn't quite acting like it. Well, in fact, he was a boy then, not a man, until I went to college. He was back in high school. He was sort of Harry High School, and I was Carroll College, and then I started dating. That sure straightened him up quickly. He realized what was at stake here.
Oh, yes, definitely. So I think I remember when we had some sessions together just talking about Dr. Sproul. I think he called you every night that first year of college? He called me every night through my college career. Yes, he did. He was in pursuit.
Yes. Well, you all ended up, you graduated, of course, a year before him, and then you got married. We did. That summer before his senior year. Yes, and his mother and my parents were very nice. We had gone together seven and a half or eight years, and I think they just thought, that's enough.
They need to get married. So we really were planning to wait another year, but they suggested we might like to get married that year, and we did. Let's go back to the engagement. Was it around Christmas Eve? Is that right?
No, no. It was, I believe, his freshman year of college in the fall, and he had become a Christian, and he came to my college campus. We went to different colleges. He came to my college campus with an engagement ring and gave it to me, and it was a surprise to me. And being not the most mature people, I kept saying to him, can we go back to the dorm so I can show my friends the ring? And he's trying to be romantic about the whole thing. I remember him saying, you know, here he'd given you the ring, and then he was sort of cast aside. Exactly. And it was all about the ring and your friends for a while.
It was. But then the funny thing that happened, his father was dead by that time. He hadn't told his mother he had bought the ring, but Arcee talked to our pastor about should he get the ring, and the pastor said, oh, I think it'll be just fine, and I think nobody will mind. When he told his mother, she minded.
She said, look, you're just a freshman in college. I think that ring needs to go in my safe deposit box. So the ring that I wanted to show everyone, I had it for a couple weeks, went in her safety deposit box until, I don't know, his sophomore or junior year, and out it came. So I was engaged twice. To the same man.
Yes, exactly. And then you spent that first year there on the campus of Westminster College. We did. We lived in an apartment at the top floor of a house built before the Civil War.
And if you stood at the front door and put a marble on the floor, it would roll through the living room, through the dining room, into the kitchen because the floors were level. But we didn't mind. We were just happy to be together. I worked for a while at the switchboard at the college, and then, of course, he was going to class, and it was wonderful. We were able to have friends up for lunches and dinners, and I loved the students that were there.
It was a wonderful year. And you carried that same thing when you went on to seminary. Oh, yes.
I remember you talking about playing bridge with some of R.C. 's classmates and their spouses. Well, you know, his days at seminary were difficult days. It was a very liberal seminary, and he was much more conservative and Bible-believing and so on. So that was a difficult time for him. However, it was also a positive time in that all the liberal things that he was being taught, he would go and look up and research and so on.
The right answer to the questions that these people were being taught. So he really did double duty. It was like he was going to two seminaries instead of one. And so the professors did some ugly things, and even students did ugly things there. But in any case, his mentor was there, and that was wonderful for him. And, of course, this is Dr. John Gerstner we're talking about.
Exactly. Now, we were an apartment building again, but it was all seminary students. And so it was like being in a dorm again. And I'm a little bit of a social person, so I love that. And we used to have bridge games and so on, even with his double load of conservative and liberal studies.
He still found some time for some socializing and enjoying life. Let's move ahead a little bit to the Ligonier years. And I've seen many pictures, and I've gone on a few study tours with both you and Dr. Sproul before he passed away.
I've seen many pictures. They just seem like really good times that you two had together and with folks. Do you have any special memories from those times of the Ligonier tours and the study tours? I think particularly we enjoyed the ones in Europe because we were able to go to places that were historical, places where Martin Luther had been, where Calvin had been, where John Huss had been. It was just wonderful to be immersed in that kind of culture and so on.
This wasn't a study tour, but he taught both in Czechoslovakia, or Czech as it's now called, and also in Romania. And it was wonderful because it was just as the Iron Curtain had been lifted, and these people had been under communism for all this time, but they knew it was wrong. And what they were learning and what they weren't allowed to hear and so on. So that was particularly a wonderful time for us. There must have just been such a hunger of these students for that teaching.
Yes. And a lot of them were pastors who had had some freedom before everything came down. So they had an inkling, but they just didn't know how to respond to the bad things that they were being made to say and so on. You know, at various points over Dr. Sproul's ministry, there were times of controversy and conflict as happens in the church, and these controversies arise. You were right there alongside of him as he just tried to bring clarity and conviction to the church in these times of controversy.
Many of these moments, these were controversies with some long time and close friends. So just wondering if you could just comment just from being there and being alongside of him, the impact that had on him at the time and even after the fact. Well, I appreciate that you said his desire was to bring clarity because he didn't want to argue with people.
I mean, he was not one of those people out looking for a fight. He just felt like when he heard wrong theology that the world needed to know what God's truth really is. So he was very much impacted by the times that he was in controversies and the people he had to split, or there became a split, he didn't necessarily split, between him and some of his friends. And it was costly to him, and it hurt him, and some of it stayed with him way longer than he wanted to. He used to pray that God would take away his feelings toward a particular person, but he wouldn't have it any other way because he did want to bring God's truth. So he had to do it.
And sometimes I remember thinking, oh, no, not another controversy. But I also wanted him to do what was right. And he had the ability to show things well to people.
So that's what he did. And I think there was a great appreciation from many people for the fact that he did take a stand. And so often that's what you need is one person to take a stand, and then others will come along and back it.
But you need the bravery of one person to make the stand first. You know, I really, as you say, you appreciate that stand that he took. I really appreciate a number of things you brought out there. I think one is you sort of see it, as you mentioned, back to Seminary. He saw what bad theology, the impact it could have on the church and on people in the church. Certainly. And he was very concerned for the people in the pew.
Exactly. They knew the truth, and that the truth was defended. I think we also see in there Dr. Sproul's kindness. And even in times of controversy, he just cared about people. And you could see it throughout his ministry.
I have to say that most lectures or sermons that he gave, his first question to me after we were out and away from the crowd was, was I kind enough? It wasn't that he was looking for people's favor. He wanted them to not feel ill-used by him or humiliated or anything like that. He wanted to convince them of what the truth was. And so he knew that if you weren't kind, people weren't going to listen. And his heart was just towards kindness of that sort. Oh, it certainly was. And you talk about how going through this controversy and conflict, not something he sought out, not something he enjoyed by any stretch.
No. But was important. And I don't know if I've shared this story with you or not, Vesta, but I remember talking to a pastor who came up through one of the denominational churches. And in those early days, it was difficult for conservatives. And he said, never forget it. And he said, when I heard Dr. Sproul, it puts steel in my spine. And this gentleman went on to have a decade of a faithful confessional, convictional ministry of just standing for the truth of God's word and proclaiming it.
And I do think that while those controversies were difficult, nobody would wish them upon anyone. Right. God did use them and use them in the church. He did indeed.
Well, R.C. always loved music. Yes. And towards the end of his life, very much threw himself into the two hymn projects. Oh, yes. So do you have any special memories of just being there alongside of him as that was unfolding? Every memory of that was just unbelievable because he loved music so much. My special memory is how he was so looking forward to that very first Glory to the Holy One concert. The night before was a full dress rehearsal.
Yes. And it was to a closed audience. And apart from the musicians, the sound technicians and video technicians, I think there were maybe four people in that large St. Andrew's nave. And two of them, of course, were you and Dr. Sproul. And I was sitting a few pews behind you. And during the whole concert, Dr. Sproul had his arm around you. And the thought crossed my mind that he did this entire hymn project just to take you out on a date for a private concert. I would have gone with him.
He didn't have to go through all that. Well, while we're on this subject of music, I just have one last question for you. Yes. Ballroom dancing?
Yes. R.C. was teaching at a Reform seminary in Jackson, Mississippi. And we would go there for three months and he would teach. And one day he saw an ad and he said, oh, ballroom dancing.
Let's try that. And there were, I don't know, five lessons for $10 or something. Well, that, of course, was the hook. And we did the five and he wanted to keep doing the dance lessons.
And I just think this is a funny story. When they told us what the cost of the course was going to be, R.C. said, what? That's so much money. And the lady said, well, sir, this is a genuine Arthur Murray official dance school. And he said, for that amount of money, I want Arthur Murray teaching me.
But anyhow, we did continue to do that. And we went several years to Jackson, Mississippi, for him to teach down there. And every year we'd take ballroom dancing lessons.
And at the time we were living in Ligonier, Pennsylvania. And we loved it so much we added a room to our house that was just for dancing, for us to practice our ballroom dancing. And within three months of having it built, the board and R.C. decided we were moving to Orlando.
So we didn't get a whole lot of use out of it. But that's how much we enjoyed it, that we built a room especially for it. Well, this has really been a true treat for us to spend time and hear some of those special memories. Dr. Sproul was such a gift to the church and a gift to so many people and a gift to you. And for you to just take the time here and share that with us just really means a lot. We're truly grateful for you. Well, thank you.
It's my favorite subject. Well, we're pleased to be joined by Dr. Nichols here in the studio. Steve, thank you for that conversation.
It was wonderful to listen to that. And thank you for this biography. It is so well written.
What are your hopes in terms of what you want to see accomplished by it? Well, thank you, Lee. You know, writing this really was one of the singular joys of my life. And as I think about what I hope this biography accomplishes, one is I hope it encourages folks to be faithful.
You know, Vesta herself was asked this question, and that was her answer. This encourages people, this life that they live together and the life of ministry of Dr. Sproul, where he was just faithful. He didn't set out to build some grand global ministry. He just was faithful at that step that was in front of him, and then he took the next step.
And there were challenges, but there were also those moments of God's blessings. I think the other thing that we think about is ultimately Dr. Sproul would want us to not be talking about him. He would want us to be talking about God. And this book ultimately points us to who God is, our holy God, our sovereign God, our God who is full of grace and mercy. You know, at the end, Lee, there's a prayer here by Archie Parrish. He was a longtime friend of the ministry stretching back to the 1970s. And here's what he has to say.
We live in desperate times. We need a fresh outpouring of your Holy Spirit and awakening. Use this biography as a tool for that for Christ's sake. And ultimately, that would be our hope for this biography. I want to add my thanks to you for your work on this biography. I believe that this will be a help to Christians around the world as they seek to make a stand for the truth in the way that R.C.
did. There was a kindness about him, but there was backbone. And that is something that we need, Christians with conviction today. And I think a biography like this can encourage a new generation of Christians, just as Christian biographies have been used for decades and centuries to stimulate greater love for the Lord and courage in carrying out the Great Commission. So thank you again for your work. We would love to send you a copy of Dr. Nichols' biography of Dr. Sproul.
Again, it's titled R.C. Sproul, A Life. And for your donation of any amount in support of the global ministry Dr. Sproul founded 50 years ago, we will send it your way. This biography details Dr. Sproul's childhood and formative education, his marriage and partnership with his cherished wife, Vesta, his friendships with key Christian figures, and the enduring impact of his teaching on the global church. And we hope it serves, as Steve and Chris have both mentioned, as an encouragement to you. Contact us today with your donation of any amount, and we will send you R.C. Sproul, A Life. Our web address is renewingyourmind.org, and our phone number is 800-435-4343. I do hope you'll be with us throughout this week, as we'll be featuring messages from various decades of Dr. Sproul's ministry, beginning tomorrow with a familiar theme, but framed in ways that you might not have heard before. It's an early message delivered in 1979. There where it all began at the Ligonier Valley Study Center, the Holiness of God. .
Whisper: medium.en / 2023-12-15 22:57:02 / 2023-12-15 23:06:37 / 10