Advice For The POST Mormon NEW CHRISTIAN

Your right and him and so welcome fireflies to this episode of the other brightness podcasts as you can see today we have two new guests. Well, I guess on your guestbook. You see Breanna before, but we do have to guess us today.

Breanna and Dan so we'd like to thank them for coming in welcome them to the other brightness podcasts are granted and welcome ethics are common so the reason we have these two guests on a podcast is there very similar to Paul and Michael a.k.a. Dr Pepper and I they are both post-Latter Day Saints who have found faith in Christ. And so the topic of our episode today as we are going to discuss what it's like being a post-Mormon and the new Christian, so this episode you want to really focus on advice for the post-Mormon new Christian. And so Breanna Danna really can help us with this topic. So were going to kind of talk to them interview them and give some advice from them, hear their background and their stories and will Just have a discussion.

Go back and forth will share all of our advice so we have this come share background.

The shared history of being Latter Day Saints and leaving and coming to Christ, so that's going to be the topic of discussion for today.

So starting off. Let's start off with Breanna so the both of you in turn so it was like a 5 to 10 minute synopsis of your journey from Mormonism and to Christianity. So I asked my parents the rebels convert adults going out. We were now a couple years because we were first of our families yeah yeah I really idolize my father spiritual figure in my life at the strongest thing changed my testimony on him because he words the leader. She let her whole family. Growing up in the church and everything partner activities. I used flattery girls can all that stuff years down the road. As I was much older. We're going to get divorced and shattered the world in that moment that time it wasn't the first time that my father, my parents, they were struggling reason why my mom and this wasn't the first and gently years ago, before all that happened when my mom was destabilizing for me in my face became agnostic, I was suffering through depression for several years. During that time when it happened again. It was it was much worse.

The same girl that happened years before. I will first I was 16. Talk. I was already struggling with my social circle. I didn't quite have a lot of friends growing up.

I only had faith you and I already dealing with questions why everything when this happened like the church was my foundation for everything you could rely upon my dad. I thought he was a strong and really wasn't perfect, but what really got me was when parents went to go get this taken care of the patient side with and guess I did. My mom basically saying was her fault that she went and for some time. I so when I became a Gnostic still was told yes I took a deterrent attending the church that I was secretly agnostic and now that was real.

Church was true, but I kind of got myself into an abusive relationship and went some pretty dark past. No, I could keep with this Mimi questioned God how because at that point was suicidal and take my want to go to hell. So that led me into going to questions I found some things about the church and Christianity because he Breanna chapter online videos with mythology at the church when he realized that after spending some time to the realization the church was not true, but also that Jesus did everything for me. I couldn't find settlement and other people because he will always let you down but Jesus you have everything my story ethic yeah I echo Paul's words really appreciate your sharing that with us must be like anyone communicate about, you know going through what you've gone through, but think you for sure now that I know it's kind of hard and hopefully will make you know both of you feel comfortable and you know if you fall as follows. Questions will try to be careful to you know not go to probing.

Try to be considerate so thank you for that. Have any follow-up questions whether you have questions for you. Thank you again for showing up you so Dan would like to share is that with the sole of your story or journey for monism to Christianity church road where I know you will still pull all already shared a little bit about where we never really felt like a good Mormon like I was a good person to Mormon families, church, so I will be standard Mormon so I never really felt like I fit in.

So looking back years because you never saw muscle Mormon culture also stored one family home. We were all sitting around the table all over so we are all talking about where you are going 00 foreign language Mormon culture. My brother will really good about what so my vote. I remember I was last to go on my best friend went right before I remember turning my dad explained about Alderson will be washed physical right to run out how to prevent Jenny since last so really make a lot of sense to be brought up. You will be as word or sentence that mold really so 13 was really when I was a slight started rebel like a mock more and more solid body of work hundreds of often in class, after primary class and I remember one. One teacher use talking about the devil and how the impacts. Everything happens in the world that you know it's because of available and so smart Alec looking back at what I totally would be essential so you tell me if I saw a bunch of Marshall happened to get stuck and I remember this guy for teacher of he was just very very straight-line Mormon women was to play with you and I don't know if you call you up right next to his wife dressed, like a home address is most members were, but he got so upset when I asked? He sent me back to primary younger kids for my lessons but that day they were handing out cookies so there was just so my mom my mom really big drivers for the church is true, you know, a lot of meat hanging on doing a lot of things years was impacted by my mom and I really just want to make her proud and so I went to seminary went through everything throughout high school and all that you stole my mom, I met a girl in high school my now wife Mary, my high school sweetheart, so I met her, I started going to church with her family really think they can help you out of Mormonism and help answer a lot of questions with lot just trying to do. We all they figure it all out. Yeah so that's how my journey out of it.

Questions from scratch, so, so, what age did you ever really feel like you identified yourself as a Mormon or latter-day St. or Dick. I just feel like while this is the church I go to the odds are really part of your identity funny about it.

I never really felt like a long long with them but even after I left the church, so just you all the time you might my wife had a really hard time being Lutheran with going to school with all of the different Mormons when they would treat her deeper, on the outskirts and so she should have a good feeling about that I would find myself just defending them against her. And so Scott is funny that you asked for like a really good and with my wife by myself defending side to West with my dad for a long time.

There are some things happen in his life or he kind of went inactive in the church but he had served a mission before doing that, and is now the same thing like my uncle I am and I guess he he left the church and he joined some kind of I don't if it's evangelical or what kind of church, but he would come talk to my dad and he would say a lot of disparaging things about Joseph Smith on the phone with my dad.

You know, and even I was inactive at the time he just got this heated discussion is that you don't even know you're talking about, you know you I don't know what your pastor taught you so it's it's interesting like when you when you see that opposition to Cadillac stirs up some kind of I want. I do not inscribe some kind of visceral emotion. Or, you know, this deep-seated idea than you did.

Otherwise you wouldn't really think about consciously when they hit that when they when they hit a certain spot and you know I can't remind you something in a Stirs up emotions of Ken lay dormant for a while. A brand of adjudicative so the same question for you like. Did you ever feel like when you were younger you associated identified yourself as latter-day St. or was considered very strong Mormon tell totally changed the world did you ever struggle with ideas of like kind like we talked about maybe not quite fitting in or did you feel like you were, you know you are in the church and like that's where you belong kind of feeling both really fit very much, but I think is was very quiet and introverted intent shy away from social action but I love being Scriptures. Dr. and a lot of other kids my age church thing here going east while social staff can definitely like the social aspects either like my mission was a nightmare. Those first few months to get out of that shell like I remember being thrown on the street in France being barely knowing how to say hello and French and my trainers like RA go talk to the guy on my clock what's one was available.

This is crazy I can I can because language end and think I remember, I muttered a couple words and that he just kept walking and he's like it wasn't too bad your first draft so yeah Dori. I know I can relate to the whole introverted thing in Struggling. That way, like feeling part of the group and you know because you're not extroverted, like a lot of other latter-day Saints are sold difference about you guys, single click suit is you say how hard it was to write something for the first time in Spanish and I was just thinking and doing it in English wasn't any easier talked about guys like why do speak the same thing as this is really awkward as I expected flex to contact zeros as the mission went on in terms of once once I'm better speaking the language on the other engage people better. And when I was like nine months and really picked up the language well and address to contact in my second area was the same people just walk pastor. They just wanted to get to work or wherever they were headed out so and Dan did you serve a mission.

I did not just want to ask you a question Dan if it's okay because I want to know what was going on between you and Paul at that time because I guess he went on a mission. After that he try to bring back into Mormonism or anything I would say some somewhat mutable how a lot of discussions. I don't recall any real a lot of pressure from you, my mom, my brother, my other sister strong as well but I don't know the know I probably spoke (she just nodded my head, but there is a lot of pressure there. And I definitely felt that when you talk about social asset of the church. You know I have a lot of friends in the church not really friends with them anymore. Other than a few friends are in the church anymore.

That my friend, you know the ones that are still heavily Mormon church are not interested really interact reach out to you among Facebook sport really they were really interested in talking when I go back home.you will show up in my mom's that's that's the problem. He said the B word you say are getting a Mormon friends to come but wanted to ask people to go hang out have repair floats sounds kinda weird. What is this like seventh grade was interesting to when you said that he had some conversations with Paul because Paul had talked about. Episodes how he had Artie started questioning during his mission, so the house that could have those conversations while you work yourself out already having questions Paul knows it was kind of weird time right. I was the first child in our family, the server mission. My older sister did not and so I felt I felt a lot of pressure to try to make sure that I brought the younger siblings along the covenant path as best I could write you know it's interesting to hear. Danny said he doesn't remember much about that is probably just slipped his mind, but I felt like I do feel like I put quite a bit of pressure on you when when I came home I know it was coming back to Utah after having spent two years in Europe was a tough transition, even though I spent those years as it is a modernistic missionary was not Utah.

You know, and so being back in Utah was really tough and I met Angela and we got pretty serious with our relationship pretty quickly, and, first chance I got one. She's when she said you wanted to move out here since I jumped at it and moved out there so I was only home from my mission. I may have 1999 and I left Utah in December 1999, right after Christmas and Danny is seven years younger than I am. So he was in the middle of his teenage years at that point I just probably just starting with with the real question because you're probably around 14 of the time or something and so when I when I moved out here, it came out to visit and of course you know you try to put on a good big brother front and I were faithful in the church that kind of pain course I had questions.

I remember picking you up from the airport in global and driving back and you ask questions about different things and of course dad was telling me you were struggling clinical struggling church and I felt like I quite a bit of pressure needed to serve a mission. If you remember that or not but I like telephone conversations with really tried to encourage in that direction. I felt bad about it because it was clear wasn't something you were you were going towards. But, and I was trying to said for you along the covenant path so she feels kind of like and I kind of when I was really struggling toward questioning around 2005 1015 to 16, or before a kind of left to deal district.

I kind of ramped up my defense of the church is kind of like compensation. I guess for the questions I had.

Did you have similar thoughts like that Paul, in your talking to Dan and others. Oh yeah for sure mad I had had names of becoming an apologist and I wanted to study archaeology and find the evidence for the book of Mormon and Central America that was kind of what where my mind was, in terms of what I was going to study did not ultimately go that direction, but yeah spent a lot of time online reading (quite kicked off at that point but reading stuff from farms and and shields and some of the other apologetics boards and sites that were up at the time. Yeah, that's that's yeah we had some experience or notice that sometimes when witnessing the Latter Day Saints and it seems like were not getting anywhere while times when they're the most vehement in their defense of the churches, when there almost at the breaking point.

So sometimes a top hard to tell where they are at in their faith, but he also did enough in Calgary talked about earlier in the same he has anything to add wanted to talk more about the transition area. So you both, describe in your stories you're the transition between the Latter Day Saints anti-Christian grant you kind of talked about how there is a period in your life or your agnostic did you. Could you tell us more about that.

I don't to be unwanted to probing.

But did you read kind of questioning the existence of God and an Jesus or did you were there certain things of the other district he still held onto their difficult to let go of, or would like to talk more about that well is more questioning whether God was real or not and I cannot believe that now I have to be true that Connie is and there is kind of like started some of the cultural things that were little bit but it wasn't really so big deal still like to be true and I shot at the same time. My own thing is time for dalliance is experimenting in the background while still attending church just and the question was about the change came so the question just as about the transition from being a believing Latter Day Saints to nonbelieving you like Kelly I think you answered pretty well you elected your ideas and beliefs change slowly over time or was a collection all or nothing change or did you even between Christianity and Mormonism. Did you leave other things. So just how that transition. Well idea that affected me was about the Bible and they believe that it's been corrected. Missing patients treated during transition. I question was whether I will could be reliable or not study archaeology behind it breaks the history really got my attention to them right now seems to have a lot more validity. Yes, Scripture, and still don't mean that when I'm like okay I was a lot more reliable. So look into this Christianity like you I was suicidal so late. Thank you.

I reached out and she's apartment the night of the post on theories shall I older gentleman. She restocks and messenger talking to Jean almost became morning. Years ago, and things that got and give me some resources to help me pass this great and you and yours. You're also speaking earlier about how so not only you were having more faith and understanding in this authority and the reliability of Scripture, but you're also Describing how you can rely on Jesus alone right, could you talk a middle bit more about that, like learning to trust in Jesus, rather than an organization or yeah Dell Jesus takes a moment to respond to that question comes to when I realize that this fixture to be reliable learning about his background and everything there is a video that I watched on YouTube yesterday did I don't remember it is called the gospel for Mormon think tank and is actually during video watching several of his staff is doing rainy that is being a sort of middleman godlike.

You can talk to God directly and he wants a relationship with Skynet that God was part being I just didn't really have a close relationship to think about kings and queens of celebrities like there there just like there. Your average but God came down he can key more relatable and yes I asked that so transitioning from your district to Christianity would say that the God felt closer to you.

Lori felt more real to you about how did that transition will I came to a point where conditional love is like race and before that I never experienced that kind of love in my life. Still, when things did not swing, that's great, thank you very much. How do you guys anything that I do not. Kind of taken control the conversation so because I chipping and I think I follow question I can think back to like one. One part of my teenage years where I was I was coming that transition, you were agnostic, going through the motions for my family and I had a paradigm shift where all my thoughts change on the still delightful. Maybe it's true about the you know that was talk about. Don't be on your so there is a point in my teenage years. On some mysterious one moment shifted your view as well or just consistent throughout specific moment when it really happened. But, like gradually as I started developing more going through different experiences that I started developing people work perfect the first time my dad my mom.

It was hard for it and I just thought people ate all this stuff on I had a problem with this one story that the kind told young women's where this idea like with gum.

If you ever heard of that one is aware like basically if you get into a lot of chastity and involves another person before marriage and before you go to the temple and no reason why you think you're worth God. So basically our completely virtuous and clear Jackie, Temple-Inland had a common topic is not perfect their Jesus. Now he forgive the woman who committed adultery. There is little moments like that where over time to start having some issues something that you like this and was a member of the church is for short time, and last but she told me I guess my experience as a man was different women go through the church in her chewed gum analogy so I met Breanna can stencil just behind the scenes for me telling my aunt told me that she was holding in the young women's classes if somebody tried to rape her for any of them that it was the it was better to die than survive that Ambien victim of rape because having your chassis taken is just that it is such an such a horrible thing to tell people that, even if it's against your well and something happens like you are no longer virtuous or wanted her, you know were the and you never will be again.

It's just incredibly strict disheartening yet. I will maybe had heard, and I just forgot about and heard that the chewed gum example but I do remember hearing Kim if it is just a thing. The Mormon said to each other or if it is on like on like a Mormon movie but they said it's like if you are when you go on a mission.

It's better to come home in a box than to come home early if you guys are not that man's rough cut of the same thing. It's like really, you know what a pet I coming I did have my data, my parents, but I mean if you're to say that your kid is pretty messed up. Rather, they die than come home dishonorably.

As a young one like they would still this idea that the other guys don't go on missions or they're not really that I have with 13 or 14. I remember you gathering they were talking about next week were to go to Martin and so they were there were buildings have to say this this is this is why the church is true God is this show you guys whether churches can you time. I was, no on the fence is not really leave the direction and so I really into it as long as I got the point where pages still missing on like okay okay just to read proves that it is true about them know about you, and we translate plates, stitching pals like right won't go back and we translate them is not in my eyes so that was just a real paradigm shifting level thought process because I can't believe you really find a way to get out of this right so what I graduated high school.

I was dating did my high school sweetheart and her mom reservation center yourself sound may quote the reservation center in Salt Lake so Vermont transferred to Albuquerque so I remember my dad sitting down with the night before is basically pleading with you not to go. Basically said you know this is really what you want to do but he said I don't think you should know this is the right girl for you and you you basically bore my testimony to lesson love this girl and Mexico children will really have so save it yo majority of my transition from Mormonism's Christianity as the large part because their Lutheran no one my conversations about have no head to deconstruct everything that I was taught about becoming a Johnson day, no, have my own know I went to seminary I guess is never really clicked the assignment by you connected from the Bible to the book of Mormon seminary class that was was a hard lesson to learn going to Christian church Bureau Lutheran Church in listening to the pastor. There were a lot of ways I thought things that I thought I knew about this for accurate work and the pollen. I've had a lot of special years deconstruct a lot of things really show the weight with a lot of stuff is Scripture at all, just a bridge that getting from Mormonism to the Bible so yeah this is challenging the top down about it when you started to attend the Lutheran Church with Lauren and her parents did. Do you started to attend with them in Salt Lake City before you moved to Albuquerque right yeah of the church call segment is that we played basketball that where one wants to play basketball. Don't think so. That was the church. Jim just a few times in Utah before he made Albuquerque yeah you of meetings with the government, but really I think it probably wasn't until I moved to Texas ships and exhausted that I have never really I would go again. It was going to the motion that there was a God as knowing what capacity Breanna touched on a little bit relationship I really did develop a relationship with Jesus.

So Texas was the pastor of the Lutheran Church has to man. He was fantastic to speak directly to you so you touch so spiritually in touch with everything the congregation was doing felt like everybody in that room felt like every week you just come this really fantastic and a lot of waving changed change my views really help Jesus encourage you to job were what was it like starting to attend the Lutheran Church in particular but just a Christian church. As a former Latter Day Saints where there were there things about the worship service to the communion that that were different and difficult for you to kind of adopt or help. How was that as experience for you as a someone I know you were kind of agnostic.

At first, and New Mexico, but was unlike starting to attend a Christian church and think through those things and experience. But worship service that wasn't was a Mormon is quite different. It was quite different.

But in a lot of ways I think Lutheran traditional service. My wife's family attended was fairly easy transition for me it's not it's not of live music and all just things like mortgage or help me a lot in my transition know this is funny because the union with them, but I was always great, great, just what were Mormon.

I really don't like the taste of alcohol is never still to this day you will drink socially, but really don't like the taste of the sale. Still, also grabbed a great dish so taste better than the waters question that any follow-ups for mandatory fitness in question. Breanna so just curious, do you still attend Lutheran Church are all what church do you attend them with the pandemic started going to church. The Lutheran Church book is very contemporary of mine might be a sister church the one you are exactly like Jack got the lights of this, they got car parts of on the wall with no cross paid on the car parts so very very cool church.

The belief pastor in the past of the following: got to pastor and there just all Tabitha sleeves tattoos are really good guys pastor Lou restrictions.

Choose peace, he left and went back to his church, and so the pastor came in after images didn't have the same just wasn't the same. Just Justin just hit the same way. So we bounced around several churches around the Dallas-Fort Worth area. We try to Methodist Church: we landed at this this church soldiers called the colony.

The two great pastor of the speech and talk the talk about Christian talk about J so you know, all I need to hear my Place. How I sign up Sabrina, how about zero, when when in your transition. Did you start attending a Christian church. What was that like to do first time sell fire while there. I know what church to go to sell. I started Lake Washington sermons online for strength and ecology in church is like some of my first church experiences. That was really going to church, but then I got connected online with some people excellent Christians.

And carrying. She helped me carry cheap nearby time break. And she brought me to Calvary Chapel explains that break times like this little mega church that the teaching expository factors like each chapter very same person that experiences kind of shocking. I remember going to service and they had musicians really loud. Bank holding different environment and I just down and I was like taking it all in an online I don't know what to do and she was standing there. She is worshiping her heart out with her hands (like dancing, music, and snaking friend. They also felt like these people like they felt like more free like in church during second five and like) and hence it there. They were free to worship (heart out and I really like that feeling there is totally different but it is awesome. What about that the cost is yeah I was the first restriction on my own after doing some research online. I helped him train his church and it ended up being a little freaking for me. Using the evening drink, it think they have the creature was up there anyways like calling us the crowd like I like using something like whatever illness this person their name and then you see you and Courtney Holy Spirit on your plate. Praying around in one point, spurring places around you is really interesting but a little bit as good as you know, like little snake churches. First is annexed to follow will be plays guitar church. One of the guys he was playing with was like hey I got invited you to leave Utah harvest and so we went to this church is performing more kids so mother-in-law my wife and we pull into the Zappos never heard before Joe's church and sky like an abandoned strip mall. Some businesses like boarded-up windows going doing one of the businesses church only thing in the whole strip center was open so we go in there and it was similar to that went to the whole service seminormal. You know, no mobile Mormon in the service know then everybody started sticking out of Tom's work talking in tongues and some weightings crawling up the middle vial of like okay to start churches like a guitar player level sole reason why were worried, as you point out earlier when you guys sound like your church is a lot more exciting than mine. It's like if you've ever attended. Like in most Mormon churches is kind of like the steady background noise of kids in ruffling and people eating she does or whatever but it's like he is about.

He felt really uncomfortable in my church because we have a cry room and we don't keep the babies in the in the actual worship in the sanctuary. So it's like sometimes you can like hear a pin drop like sometimes I reach my pocket to get a tissue like careful, don't do it you know it's like mission impossible enormous any alarms you know that if they call Calvinist the frozen chosen for a reason, so you been right. If you ever come visit you keep the air down really low thereto good one so and that any of these churches that you've visited. After your transition out of the discharge did you encounter any kind of legalism legalistic tendencies and if he did, how did you handle that sedan sounds like no but you Breanna now not really experiencing going to church but I do see more online with some of the Christian forms that it is kind of funny, interacting with a lot of Christians on Facebook or discussion groups because they could probably be the nicest people you'd ever know. But as soon as you bring up the topic of baptism or gifts of the spirit. It's like you know the gloves are off. And you know they just turn into wildebeests so let you know I get talk to in person and their medical people so you think of the Internet just engenders a kind of more more conflict. Unfortunately, yeah, I agree with that� I've been seeing a lot of it recently to like, especially with the election. You know both sides, you're not a real Christian. If you vote for so-and-so site that's that's kind of ridiculous and then Halloween came and there's always always post online like false Christians are the ones celebrating on Halloween. Everything just like you to put sleep because of my my Mormon background of all the legalism bear, you know, but I'm just like, okay, that's a false dichotomy doesn't like even if that's true even if it's wrong to celebrate Halloween like there's not just those two cats, but this should still at least be 1/3 camp which is no people who are estate yeah were done the research, just like another automaticallyChristians and that's one of things, it just gets to me, most of it is just that judgmental background that we came from. And every time I see it, it just makes me want to shut down immediately like I have no tolerance threshold for it at all. Now if you guys are better at dealing with it than I am but it's just very hard for me and very triggering for me whenever I see it I struggle with. Mostly I just learned to admit his early on I probably would've said something I saw going on like in a Facebook group that where I was involved, but I realize it's a slow time just lease arguments. It is, it is one of those things. Words located do I start arguing with this Christian and a Facebook group where there might be Latter Day Saints to use that as evidence that were not denied unified in my kind of thing. So this kind of let it go. Most times, but my my my experience with with legalism. And since churches is that it was really refreshing actually because I remember one of the first, so I talked about how our church started attending was going through transition from one one-day pastor to a new lead pastor and labor code go preaching through a series on effusions at the time that we started attending and been the end of that total preaching series. There was like a special service where they actually made the transition from one pastor to the other in and the pastor was retiring. He had been there for like 30 years and that the new pastor coming in was was a younger guy. He had been an associate pastor at a pretty large mega church in Louisville, Kentucky Bob Russell pastored that church, Southeast Christian, it's one of the largest churches in the country and comes from that background and just demanding it and change everything right away, but there were changes that were taking place in one of them was a transition music and he preached a sermon on on legalism. I remember it was probably within the first eight weeks and started going there and it was really refreshing to share pastor preach a sermon and kinda talk about the Pharisees and and say you know as Christians we have to be careful not to be legalistic about our faith in the way that the Pharisees were but at the same time as Christians we have to be careful not to be overly critical of the Pharisees because they were they were religious people. They were faithful to the people following God as they knew how was it was a very really interesting experience for me because I haven't heard a message anything like that within the LDS church where the message was clearly careful about judgmental and fundamentalism in legalism and number one of the changes that that they made visitors to the worship worship music. They were the transition from a kind of like a more traditional worship music with that with a quiet back, inquire to know more like that contemporary Christian rock 'n' roll style and now I was kind of like that and they started doing worships worship nights like if there was 1/5 Sunday, the Thursday before the wood there would be a worship night that you were just going really wouldn't be a message anything it would just be worship and I attend a few of those beers and a few of those and there was one that I missed and I remember I wish I had.

I wish I had missed it because after afterwards. Apparently a young teenager got really into the worship music and guidelines more into it than just like raising his hand, started dancing to me.

I'll and I remember was kind of that was kind of the talk of the church for a while because it was something that they had really seen before and so there were other people who were like maybe you shouldn't do that.

There were other people like no you know he's worshiping this piece connecting with God knows kind of an interesting conversation to witnesses as opposed LDS person guided that this I talk about that a little bit because the data considers little tension between legalism writing with regards to teenage boys. He's trying to worship and the third at the lady of grace, and not something so judgmental and can quick follow-up question tattoo is as we talked on previous episodes.

How young he is one of the main better to say it selling points of the Latter Day Saints church is that they claim a special authority that goes back to the apostles and to Jesus and that they are the only true and living Church upon the face of the earth, so in these Christian churches that you attended today say our church is the only true and living Church upon the face of the earth or how did your churches view other churches. The first is quick and one of the one of the axioms of the American restoration movement is where Christians only were not the only Christians and so yeah� That attitude that I did it saucers. Nobody else is not to say that there are people within that within our movement that do go there, but at least within the independent Christian churches.

Churches of Christ branch it's it's pretty pretty, not like that at all. So you Breanna right you repeat the question church so the churches you have attended a Christian church you attended every Seney kind of language like were the only true church or are today have no acceptable accepting views of other churches, other Christian churches.

They never thinking about being the only true church. Mention Mike having the distinction between false uniting of the same church and been a couple of the same church is now is interesting is when you're Mormon you think that all these Protestant churches all they do is brag on Mormonism. You know, at least once in and I can honestly say on four years now and I've yet to see that happen, even one time our pastor is pretty vocal. He does tell us all to be very careful and he says that there is a lot of apostasy in Christianity and there's a lot of people who don't take the Bible seriously not teaching biblical truth and something that we have to really look out for. So he does say that is also spoken out against Calvinism twice in his sermon, never heard him say anything about Mormonism you know or say anything about the other churches are Christian or even you know you feel strongly against Calvinism, but he's never said that Calvinists are our brothers and sisters in Christ, which is Latter Day Saints. That's exactly what I would've expected him to say because I thought Christianity was more divided and it really isn't. It's divided on on some theological point starts even within that division there still unity since kind of an interesting knowledge, the differences, but still except the main essential staff important within the Mormon church was the only time you experienced church site and only true church go you know you mentioned about being Mormon.

All the other churches talking about you yeah very rare in all the years of Lutheran Church is another churches I think of a weaker pastor than she, Mormonism, one time and is really talking about false prophets having other doctors outside of the Bible and no mention being triggered triggered the stock about where these people may go to hell something this not not part of the Bible to bother me a little bit tricky so people you know Mormon things. Tell new 31 and think what it is just nasty ass all of you guys if she thought he was going to hell was the Mormon yes RFM I really thought I was interested remember a conversation with Pastor will my in-laws. They were transferring their membership over to this church is church and give the rest of you will be you want to come over and got into the conversation about my family eventually going to hell and I remember walking away conversation so like you to judge anybody. I really appreciate you as a way never really change a good resolution of specific objects. Now let's get back on Breanna.

I'm kind of envisioning like a new song so you can get to work on it like a Carly Simon song or something� Something like that. Like you're so vain, you probably think the sermon is about you all will have it by the next episode I can be your new intro. Yes, so I can know how to move on from here. What's wanted chip in and say yeah basically come in same position you were in. Dan is I've heard my pastors in the past three years of and in my church. Dave mentioned Joseph Smith but usually it's only in a list of other people have started religions like Charles Chase Russell who started Jehovah's Witnesses Mary Baker Eddy, who started christen scientists right and then Ellen Ellen G. White, although she's kind of on the borders of people are you know they have different opinions on Seventh-day Adventist and whether it's Christian rather sop up so it was like he made a sermon about Mormonism. He just had a mentioned here, people who started on religions because they didn't like the way other people taught the Bible, so they wanted their own spin on things, think so, yeah, I've never heard a sermon from him because were New York State tutors. Not a lot of Mormons here anyway. So I dunno why he would make all sermon about Mormons most like church has even met a Mormon. Before working to limit me yes so moving on was talk about how your family handled the news that you were no longer going to be attending the LDS church and either that you were just leaving the church or wanted to attend another church so Granny would like to tell. So what about the way I and taking Tom and she got married like that year when I left Mormonism right before but yet so I opened up about it. She was really shocked to say China Turner church try to keep it short. I remember it like that. I could hear my mom crying. She is she is under a lot of stress to because I was the oldest of my family was the most faithful of the brain and I was also her best friend to name. She kind of felt like she lost her marriage and now she's the daughter number. She reached out to me and now they were. They told me that he still loved me and start running on. They were to come back very respectful really tell a lot of people that just kind of competent to location. I think the week before I stopped attending until demand need to be finished by calling because they will not be back to church. He told me that he understood Jean he had left the church to one point earlier on cell become people. Most people speak I am about earlier on my relationship and Bonnie was rough to arguments a little bit, but that was quickly resolved to go through it.

She is going to agree. Taylor take some time apart so that we could be contract terms. So would you say today it's a lot better than your lot more disclose conflicts or can resolve more today than they were at the beginning yes they were absolutely all stars are good.

Please sign have to go through that grief. And he had to distance yourself from its very close to home and when you're going to harm it can and can't hurt relationships first.

Breathing transitioning all that yet. I kind of like, and so my when my parents divorced when I was about 12 and I felt like leaving the LDS church felt, like a divorce where your whole life, all your energy like I spent two years in a church thinking that was helping people thinking was helping me and then you can realize all the time or money. All efforts, wasted his offer nothing and now you're just kind by yourself.

You don't have that social network connecting you anymore time on your own sobs that's way I funnel. I felt like I was going through divorce. And that's why I took time not to jump into another church because like you know I don't want to. I don't want to rebound church right I don't want to just jump in the next church did you know without really knowing what I'm getting myself into. Did you have kind of similar feelings like that. It took some time for me to have the courage to emotional ability move forward but it's very important to get connected with some bit people being that online groups was very helpful during that time specially is honorable directly talking a little bit today mean Breanna about we leave the church. There's kind of this religious fatigue, he hasn't gone through it just like man like I'm just actually 32 years for me it's just I'm just tired, you know, and I think that probably kept me from seriously committing to a church for a while and see what we kind of these bigger churches where we would just nobody would know we were there we were invisible for a while unannounced really only what we needed because I just didn't want to be asked to do anything or feeling they had any sort of commitments as unjustly as tired I didn't want to jump in their service to Gander or anything so I was for me anyway you comments or questions for Gaston okay Dan would like to share this.

Did you. So how did how did your family handle telling the news about not leaving the church. He talked a bit about it but maybe is anything else you got to fill the gaps along the wall so that I will send you know I was late enough credits so my senior year of made up a bunch of Christmas graduate seminary will help this class, but you don't get any credit for lost credit exclusive. I think they were okay with that. She's just knowing where I was school but until the day my mom died a month, the book of Mormon so I don't know if she ever let it go.

My dad light. I thought my dad's lease to my face and well conversation all about.

Sounds like he puts pressure on you, but the light because of his transition to Mormonism outside of Mormonism was more okay with more so on a lot of conversations and a few months before her dad started reading the Bible is one of the shivers us. That's gospel work should lie and so we really wanted to build a spiritual relationship together the best that it won't be for the Bible with you and Celeste started Genesis few books or passing yeah that's the driving force I've never really on your sister this pretty active. She really impressed. Also, the press more so you had some great conversations, no need not really believing Christ as my Savior felt like conversations, although they were based Mormonism really helped leasehold hold onto something instead of just letting Aldo Jessup and Tad Michael have evolved to guess up all try to say something when he stopped. I think I was good to jump in and say that I don't think my dad was necessarily trying to put pressure on me to put pressure on Dan just, you know, just in our conversations about God. I had moved out here to Cincinnati area, and so you know when they would come visit her when I would talk to my dad on the phone. He would just come to me an update about how things were going with my siblings and family and I'm away from home, so it was more just, like you just mentioned in passing that you were struggling over she was trying to he was trying to help you along by reading like tennis shoes and women he fights with you and that kind of stuff but just kind of comments like that he was trying to put pressure on you when I said I felt pressure was more and more just like as a as a big brother served a mission.

I was like I've got make sure he does this to you now so this is think into you, like one of the big differences that's fascinating for me to hear about from you, Dan and Breanna that I didn't experience was leaving the church. While I still lived at home.

You know, Artie had some distance and so it was for me way easier. Just imagine that it must've been a lot harder when you're right there in the lion stand with all that influence to flying under the radar.

I guess not cause waves in those circumstances. Do you agree with that. Yeah, definitely, are especially you can avoid it.

And then we try to avoid it. Get off the Band-Aid dealers afterwards. My experience when it was the one my sisters remember her: devil one day because because I didn't believe we remember how much I heard the just personally told her you really don't appreciate called double because of really, really, she did come down and apologize, but I think some of the carries within more this know I speak. I came else when Mexico felt like I was a whole netherworld, because really mounted outside of the most part and so I had this perception of like non-Mormons almost be not devil worshipers, but just not not good Christian, yes.

So I have this perception and then the people I met outside of Utah's credible people with the slightest little perception of wellsite of Mormonism is not true is really really amazing people of so be problem for me. Mormonism criticized somebody else, it's all about the person following Christ's teachings is what it's all about and for us as Christians in general.

We are generally too much is going to have what we really should just focus on the speech. It was rough have to go pick up fast offerings on on Sunday know that I was going to the motions you know some of the houses we would be honored with they were no longer attending church: Jack Mormons term exists outside we call them Jack Mormons as some of them worked to us asking them for money so I always wondered why am I doing this 115 decided about this morning and my friends dad called me and she was like hell no you would rather sleep and do the Lord's work yesterday. His dad did not like you really miscalculate her on just about get along the Liberace about just that some business is that a soul while being called the devil by eight by a family member thing that happened to you once Deanna won't make you talk about it as another was just a seated moment as if this is crazy because now tell you have been called a lot of mean things that I don't think anybody's called me back yet but I just don't understand how Latter Day Saints can even call somebody in their own house that because none Mormonism. Your home is the temple. So if you call somebody that that's basically saying that your home is in the temple at that point, since kindness you know seating that that idea and the assistance crazy to think about is taking that seriously. That's why the comments like, just as the home is a temple in someone's not living the way you think they should within Mormonism don't think that that those teachers kinda would lead to that conclusion.

I suppose so, but you Mormonism. Like they say that Satan and his angels.

They can, they have no power to enter a temple or even a normal church building.

So that's kind of saying that some outside force has taken away the holiness of the door. You know your home there forever family and to me this is kind of, and maybe this is just be Deanna leaning towards the reformed position but that's kind of giving all the all the strength to keep Satan instead of giving it to God. This is my my opinion it's been I can see why a family struggle so much. I was fortunate that my family have my family on on my mom's side are not very religious. My dad.

He's he and his family are pretty strong Latter Day Saints. My dad's pretty cool since he's he's kind of a similar experience kind and like what you're saying. Your dad came of your dad came from a non-LDS background right and that he converted so my dad kind of you know hills and valleys in his face so and I think he was just happy to find out I was attending a church you know that and abandon religion altogether, but salvation and in Christianity.

It's it's basically seen as a relationship between you and Christ are you are you personally in Christ.

Are you trusting him as your Savior, whereas in the LDS church.

It's a family ordeal. You know it's so focused on the family where you have to have a worthy priesthood holders a father and a mother that's honoring her. Her covenants also and the children are sealed to them instead of every it's like an all-in-one all or nothing package kind of thing. So when someone wants to break off.

It's like they're trying to not just affecting themselves or affecting the whole family and so I think it's normal. It's sad to see but I think it just means a it's a it's inevitable because Latter Day Saints take their religion so seriously. So on one hand I see it is like kind of a good thing because if they didn't take their religion seriously and they didn't and they knew that you were going to have very serious consequences to your soul and pretend like they didn't care than you not mean that would show a lack of empathy or love on their part, yet is kinda sad to see that there so caught up in this religion that is so focused on.

We've all got to get through together with all going to do this. You also talked about sharing the gospel with her family give the other lessons you like to share with listeners who are may be struggling to do the same. Struggling to to share their their faith transition with their families. 70 lessons he learned elected sheriff them. So Dan would like to go first.

Unsure of the just make Joe. You yourself church. Suppose that you can trust. You know you don't waver in Christ made the right decision. There is a lot of pressure with a list of the previous episodes talk about some of the social pieces family members serves whole social background so just really make you show your gonna sleep. I really haven't.

I have pressure a lot of my my own family of your podcast is now the Mormon missionaries in the Chelsea monthly which they had contacted me and you a slot.

A correlation is not causation.

I yeah I personally know if they ever reach out the overall share of course, but I really, really touchy. I think all of this should just shut down times so I think it's just make sure you plant the seed and allow them to take that journey the spiritual journey for themselves is in some ways, the more you pressure them deeper is really what I found so I just start seated like you and eventually grow their spirit grow in the right really like how you said that we kinda need to be rooted in the gospel because if our foundation is our social surroundings are friends. It's such a huge shift when you leave the LDS church near try to figure where to go from there that it's like your foundation is taken from under you. So you need to have something's sure and and and strong to stand on, or else I mean we we all have friends that have left LDS faith and many of them just reject religion altogether. They reject God they reject faith or become hypercritical of of anything supernatural or if our faith through related as really sad, you know, because sometimes you know a lot times on the being good citizens on the being, you know, it's like they go and become criminals, but same time you see and not least I see sometimes people become very bitter and very hurt and I and understand that I think we all understand that to a degree, but there's just so much like you because this false religion is immune. There is not true religion is not true Christ and salvation. And it's starting to baby out with the bathwater to just give it all up, so we really gotta be rooted and that when we share with others and we really gotta do it in love and with patience. Like you said, and that so like LDS. The LDS church is not just a church. It's their whole cultures or hold identity their ancestry like that in all pioneers go back generations, law times, and so it's like you're rejecting the religion they have their ancestors of had so it's really difficult follower of Michael jointing added up for SK Breanna again. Brandon would you like to share any lessons you have in no sharing of faith, transition or transfer the gospel with your family and friends to the just go extinct now with the X-linked sixpacks and make things to go completely well. I just go with the expectation not going to be easy and very hard and they may not respond the way necessarily want but it's it's normal to feel both afraid. All the way a rate might feel some time this steam tax rate something getting scriptures understanding before he recaps anybody to try to teach them. I know I made some stakes initially I get really fired up for me and treated like fire not going save counterproductive when you're just angry.

Show them what's right really important to love and be so hard on yourself. Either this conflict in the same plants plant the seeds and can leave it to God to the nurse proceeds to help me to going to Christianity as like as a missionary.

I felt like as an LDS mission.

I felt like my salvation was on the line and the salvation of everybody I talked to his online so I'd say all the right words is constantly paranoid like I was innocent, always peopled outer darkness and a lot so as I goes up to me to say just the right thing to get them to become Latter Day Saints course I may not tear up immune falcon he can relate to that is not easy over there now is like a little like religion but now knowing that like God's in control and were just called to be faithful and to preach the gospel at such like a huge weight off my shoulders. I don't know. It's up to me to save anybody by sending us, you're saying Breanna said just leaving it to God, yeah, thank you for sharing about a couple thoughts to just a piggyback of all three of you. You know send things I really like just now Dan.

I like how you said to get rooted in the gospel because, people want to ask your questions immediately and from my experience, I don't even know how to articulate my reasons for leaving yet you and I was still trying to figure it out myself. Like what brought me to this point and the more I tried to explain it without being bratty.

I feel like you know now I look back at it on my gospel. Only I know how to explain things the way I do now is I feel like it's easy as you said Matthew, it's easy to and bring it's easy to panic sort of business and nutrition to be like oh my goodness, my family is still stuck there.

If I don't do something right now and convince them today to leave the church. You know they're gonna have an eternity of suffering we just need to calm down a little bit and I'm not saying like not trying to recheck family members but but I'm saying the trust on a little bit you like what you're saying Matthew and and realize it's not assaying the magic word you know God's got things under control. God is not up there on his throne spreading and crying and panicking and we don't need to be doing that either. I think it is good to have discussions with family members, but I think what's more important, especially early on he said Breanna's is the love your family. A lot of ex-Mormons.

We try to talk to their families and then it's heated and then they have no relationship with their families anymore, and then this just fingers kind of pointed like lots of them.

They don't want to talk to me, but it's kind of both.

I am still degree and it's really important when we leave.

I think to show our families that we love them to reach out to our family members used of MacCallum to say hey, how are things going in your life right now just continue to be there for them and if you can't prove something doctrinally need more Mormons care so much about or the proxy and correct practice just just living a life that they can't point to even say when you left because he wanted to send but actually having that relationship with Christ and just you living a Christian life in and of itself is something that you know they take notes so let's say thank you Not Everybody's Going to Be Receptive and Some People Even No Matter How That You Behave.

Some Some Relationships Aren't Going to Be Fixed and Also Something like Can't Deal with Theorizing to That. Maybe It Wasn't As Strong Relationship As It Was Just the Most Important Stitches Are. Do Your Best to Add to That and What I'm Trying to Take over the Podcast Here, but Just to Realize That A Lot Of Times When It Does Happen When There's Alienation Is Personal. It Is, It Is These Members of the Church Just Doing What They Think They Have To and It's the Church It's Not It's Not Because You I Met I Got Home I Made Mistakes in Trying to Reach out to Family Unit Initially Will Be Left Talk about My Detour through, like Some Stunning Dialogue Mormonism into Mormon Stories, More Liberal Type Mormon Related Podcasting in Those Houses Things and A Lot Of People Who Kinda Go That Route, and They Deconstruct Mormonism That the Tendency Is to Want to Write a Long Letter to Their Family or Whoever They're Connected with within Mormonism and End Prove Everything Wrong like CVS Letter and Just about All That All These Other Kinds of Letters of People of Britain to Their to Their Spouse or to Their Bishop or Leveraging Elements Is Very Focused on China Try to Deconstruct Mormonism for Them and When I Only Laughed. I Really Didn't Want to Do That an Aside, I Just Have Drafted a Quick Email to the Family to Let Me Know They Were Leaving, We Don't Think Your Warm People and Now We Just Gotta Do This for Us to Find Relationship with Christ. I Remember When My Sisters Had a Reaction to It That I Didn't Expect Because I Really Tried to Be and Then You Can Tell Me If I Was Successful. I Really Tried to Be Accommodating in My Email to Just Say Were Leaving and Insistence for Austin and We Just Want to Know Because We Love You That This Is Going on with Us and One of My Sisters Reached out Was like Okay Never Talk to Religion and Never Talking about Religion Again and That Surprised Me and Hurt Me and I Had to Respect That Wished Me and Others to Express to Me so I Just Didn't for a Long Time Man. She Started Deconstructing Mormonism and Then Reached out to Me and Apologized for Asking Me Not to Talk to Her about Religion and so That I Got a Green Light and I Jumped Right in and Started Preaching and She Was like That Don't Want It and so Yes, It's Tough Enough Mistakes Are Made in I Have To Tread Lightly with My Siblings and I'm Trying to Do the Best That I Cannot Had Really Good Conversations with All of Them and Have Had Tough Conversations with All of Them. So It's like My Breanna Was Standing up after Realize That the Relationships Are Going to Be Tough Because of This Stuff to Do Your Best to Love Your Family and Michael You Touch and That's That You Still Are the Most Important Part Right Because It Had If You're Just Angry You're Not Grounded like in the Gospel. Like Danny Said Just Angry. Latter Day Saints Won't Want to Hear What You Have To Say, You Know, If You Just You Just Deconstructing Mormonism for Them and You're Not Giving Them the Gospel in an Effective Way Those Preaching on Them for Your Life Than You Not Have Had Latter Day Saints Tell Me Why. Why Would I Listen to You Don't Have Anything Better to Offer and That's Why When I've Heard That Work or Been Told That I Latter Day Saints.

It Really Is a Memorial to Text Him Back As Well in Aqaba Change of My Approach Here Because This Is This Is an Effective Yeah I Wanted to Just Add to Whenever We Share the Gospel with Friends or Family That Are LDS or Otherwise. The Passage Always Comes to Mind Is First Peter Three so He Speaking about Suffering for Righteousness Sake and in Verse 14 He Says, but Even If You Should Suffer for Righteousness Sake, You Will Be Blessed.

Have No Fear of Them nor Be Troubled, but in Your Hearts Honor Christ the Lord Is Holy, Always Being Prepared to Make a Defense to Anyone Who Asks You for a Reason for the Hope That Is in You, You Do It with Gentleness and Respect.

Having a Good Conscience, so That When You Are Slandered, Those Who Revile Your Good Behavior in Christ May Be Put to Shame. So What, No Matter How They React to the Message We We Can't We Can't Go against What Christ Is Ordered Us to Do to Be Patient, Respectful, Loving We Can Be Bold, of Course, but I Think Just Yelling at Somebody That They're Going to Hell Is Probably the Best Way to Do It but We Always Need Honor Christ in Our Heart.

First, and to Honor Him and to Always Be Ready to Defend the Faith. So I Think Is One of the Sure That Really Quickly, so A Lot Of Latter Day Saints. When They Leave the Church Kind of Talk Met This Topic of Apologetics Sharing the Gospel Lot of Them Assumes a Leave the Church They Want to Start Their Own Ministry.

Either Apologetics Are Liking Our Outreach Kind of Ministry Did You Ever Consider Doing Then Do Think That's a Good Idea or a Wire Enough Why Not so Damn Happy Gophers Know My Mother While She Suggested Ex-Mormons to the Church but Will Befriend Them at the Time I Was Not Interested in My Own Spiritual so I Will Overlook the Election so and so I Think I See Where I'm at Now. I Do Hope but This I Have Been Approached about Calcium How Much You Breanna. Now I Didn't Really Feel That 023 Thank You Kind of Stand around Some People Know When You're Fire and I Was Starting to Go down a Little Bit with My Family Quickly Lies, and It's Very Important to First Be Grounded. Several Areas Need to Be Involved in a Church Has Sent like Pastoral Guidance and Is Getting the Gospel More in Scripture, Understanding Things on a Deeper Level down Event the Risk of Developing Heretical.

I Guess They Beat People down.

You Don't Want to Go down There Is a Certain Level of Maturity. Start Paying for Sure, I Can Think of Maybe Will Know Talking about That I Can Think of One Major Figure Who Left Mormonism and Started a Ministry and Has since Left Mormonism and Says That He Now Follows Judaism Rabbinical Judaism and Its Eight It Was. I Don't Think He Was Very Well Grounded in the New Testament. I Think He Took A Lot Of the Hypercritical Ideas of Use to Deconstruct the Book of Mormon and Started Doing That with the Bible, but in Such a Way That I Don't Think He Quite Grasped the Foundations of the New Testament and How Is the Fulfillment of the Old Testament and so Yeah It's a Really Really Risky Thing. I Think the Going It's It's One Thing to Just Witness to People Saying I Believe in Jesus You Know and Share Your Experience, but It's Another Thing to like Going to a Full-Time Ministry Where You Know Especially That's like Becomes Your Job or Are You Know You Go around and and Give No Seminars or or Whatever Two Workshops to People to Teach Them How to Witness Tomorrow's Because It's Not Only the Fact That You You Might Not Be Well Grounded in the Doctrine, but If There's A Lot Of Notoriety and A Lot Of Attention. You Can Get As a Former Latter Day Saints Is Now Christian and That Attention and That Fame Can Kind of Really Go to Your Heading Get Your Ego Suffer Not Grounded in Doctrine and in Christ. That's a Really Huge Temptation That I Know for Myself That Would Be Way Too Much for Me to Handle Enough Suddenly Being Asked to Talk to Crowds of Thousands of People in You Not Tell about My Story and Their List Hanging on My Every Word That's Just Way Too Much to Handle and Yeah I Think You Need to Really Be Grounded First before You Do Any of That Paul or Michael Jimmy Thing That Got Mad, Totally Get What You're Saying about the Temptation to to Soak up That That Notoriety Right I Never Spoke to Groups of Thousands, but No Church There Was a One of the Bible Study Fellowships for One of Their Series Decided to Study through the Kingdom of the Cults Just so They Would Have an Idea of What to What You Kind of Non-Orthodox Groups Teach and and Believes That If We Ever Would Interact with Them, They Would Understand and Admit the Guy Was Leaving My Class Knew That I Was the Next Morning so They Invited Me to Come in and Speak to Speak to the Class and on This.

Definitely This Will Suddenly Know I'm on My Own Authority Sheer Simply Because I'm an Ex-Mormon Right, but I Was Really New in the Christian Faith. At That Time and and Then I Remember One Other Time Sitting with Some Christian Friends and One of Their Homes and Know My Friends Mentioned That Hey You Know Pointers and Is Ex-Mormon Course and Everybody Has A Lot Of Questions. Dinner Party and Everybody Just Wants to Know All Kinds of Stuff and You Know so You Can Bear Asking the Questions in Your Your Explaining the Differences and You Know There There Are Major Major Theological Differences in the You Can Get into Ground Where It Really Enthralls Christians Because They're like Whoa, I Didn't Realize They Believed That You Know Kind of Stuff and There Is That Temptation to Be like and like You Were Sent There Hanging on My Every Word Right and I Remember Thinking through That Experience in Thinking of Us, Not Really, Is Not Really What I Want and I Almost Went to That Place of Wanting to Defend You Know like I Was Not As Strange As Your Thinking Kind of Thing You Know the Name but Remember Thinking through That and Thinking and I Really Need to Get Grounded and That's When I Started to Consider Going to Christian Seminary and I Didn't Really Have Really Have Aims of Going into Ministry Necessarily, but I Wanted to Learn Wanted to Study Wanted to Grow in the Faith Really Get Grounded and in the Bible and God's Word and an Understanding Christian History and so I Do Not Register to Go to Seminary and Steve the Advisor Who Was Assigned Reached out to Me Is Aimlessly for Lunch and We Got Together and Talk about My Background Yesterday. You Know You to Go into Ministry What Were You Thinking Your Your Ministry Goals Would Be Because You Going to Christian Seminary. That's Generally What You're Students Are Thinking Another Minute Given the Ministry and Some Wagon Really Have Any Thoughts in That Regard.

I Was Really Just This Is This Is for Me to Get Grounded. I Think It Kinda Caught Them off Guard, but He Was like Alice Know If Your Background Is Probably a Good Idea. Maybe through This Process You Will Find Find What Your Ministry Will Be in and Really This Podcast Is It This Is Where I Landed.

For Now, with Ministry Guy. It Is Important to Get Grounded BC You See See A Lot Of People Will Jump Right into Trying to Reach Latter Day Saints and They're Still Likely & There's A Lot to Process through Analog to Deconstruct and Reconstruct Right in Terms of What Will Puzzle Pieces from What I Had before.

For the Christian Worldview Which Ones Don't.

What Does the Resulting Structure Look like When You Actually Build It Rightly on on Jesus Christ Is the Foundation and If You Don't Have That Grounding. If You Take the Time to Do That You Do End up Being.

I Think A Lot Of Times a Tingling Symbol Right You Just You Just Angry, and You Just Push People Away and and and Mike Brown Also Noted You Know You Can Lead People down past That Are Not Not in Line with God's Word so It's Important to Get Grounded. Yeah, Thank You for the Fall Hour and I Really Wanted to Point out to You That I Really Love How Breanna Had Pointed out That You Need to Be in a Body of Believers Somewhere and Submitting to Solid Physical Preachers Who Have Authority Not Not to Be Authoritarian over You but to Be Be Kind of like Shepherds to Make Sure That You Are Being Taught Right You Know That That There Certain Things That You're Not, You Know That You're Being Fed Spiritually and Because There There Are A Lot Of Ministries out There Where They Are.

I Guess It's a Pair Ministries Are Ministries That Are Not Associate with the Church like Their Own Thing and They're Not, You Know, Sometimes Lasting.

They're Not Part of a Church or They Don't. For the Balance from Church to Church and so Went. What's to Stop Them from Teaching Whatever They Want. You Know They Could Teach Whatever They Want and They Would Have No Repercussions. There's No Accountability and That Scary but When You're When You're Dialed in When You're When You're Tied to a Church That Is Solidly Installed. Preachers and and They're Aware of Your Ministry and What You're Doing and They View Your Content They're Making Sure That Everything Is Okay. Then There's Accountability There and before When so I Was Kind like the Third the Third Wheel or the Fourth Wheeler Fifth Will Whatever That Whatever the Colloquial Phrases Is Paul, and Michael Had Kind of Hope That If This Podcast near China Find 1/3 and I Got Another Is This Crazy Calvinist Guyana and I Might Be One of Those like Caged Stagers. I'm Not Sure, He Might Be a Little Bit Crazy but Then They Approach Me and I Was like Okay Well You Know I Think I'm Her Saying I'll Get Back to You Wanting Only Think about It and I Told My Pastors about This Project, We Wanted to Do Because I Was One Thing Is Really on the Front of My Mind As I Was like Yeah You Know I've Only Been out for Two Years in, I Feel like I Learned A Lot at the Same Time I Don't Want to Go off the Rails. I Don't Want to Lead Anybody Else off the Rails and so I Talked to Them about It and Make Sure Was Okay with Them and They Said They Really Love the Idea. They Supported Me and They Listen to Some the Podcast and List All Them but They Flip Listen to Some and They Really Appreciated What Were Trying to Do with Trundled No Reach Latter Day Saints May Be Questioning You Share with Them Our Faith Journey. So I Really Appreciate Their Support in the Know, Occasionally, to Pray for the Podcast at Our Church. I Was the Person of the Week for Prayer Meeting This Week, so I Asked Her Enough Prayers for Her to Reach More People That the Podcast Would You Know What Would God Could Use It As an Instrument to Bring People to Him.

So It's Really Great to Have Not Just Us Working on It but to Have Other Believers Praying to God That It Would Be Effective in That It Would Be You Not Have a Wide Audience. A Wide Reach.

So There's A Lot Of Benefit Is and I Think It's Really Necessary to Just Be Part of a Church at All.

Unfortunately, You Know, A Lot Of Times People Just Say This Especially Let Former Latter Day Saints Will Say Well I Have Jesus. That's All I Need You Know I Don't Need a Church. I Just Have My Bible and You Know That's True. You Don't Need a Church to Be Saved, but the Same Time.

It's like Okay You Can Have a Plant and You Can Give It a Couple Drops of Water Every Couple Months Just Enough to Keep It Alive but Is That Really Can Make the Plan Is Big and Is You Know Is Healthy and As Lively As It Could Be so You're Really Missing out on A Lot If You're Not Joining Yourself to Church/Metal PSA for for Listeners Who Are on the Fence about Them. I Want to Jump in Here Because This Is a Subject That I Feel Really Passionately about the Item Last the Church and for Me It Just Felt Really Natural Attendance Jump onto the Debate Groups and Immediately Starts Debating Latter Day Saints. Cousin Mike Was Already an Apologist, so This Is Just Totally Natural for Me to Not Take a Break and Just Immediately Go into This Mess and You Were Talking about Somebody Jumped in the Ministry and Left the Faith in Me. Three Other Names Just Pop in the Mining and Immediately the Other Examples I Can Just Think of and I Can't Think of a Single Time Words Work out for Latter Day Saints Just Immediately Jumps into Ministry and I Saw Those Examples and I Kind of Backed off for A While and Then I Kind of Felt like I Should Just Jump Back in and I Asked My My Mentor What He Asked Me Was If I Still Had Animosity Towards the Church and I Said That I Didn't and He Said That He Thought I Was Ready, but in Retrospect I Think I Was Only about Half Way There. At That Point, I Think I'm Losing the Animosities of a Big Key Step before You Can Jump in There, but One of the Other Problems That I Discovered That I Had and It Really Took the Spirit Telling Me That This Was a Problem That I Had Because I Didn't but I Really Seem to like the Praise of More Than I Should and Started I Was Writing Articles about Mormonism.

If You Want to Go That's Steel That's Brilliant, You're a Genius and Just Love Hearing Stuff like That and Then We Started the Podcast and I'm Just like Yeah You Know I'm Getting My Name out There� This Is Great in the Strictest Really Was like You Know You Should Care More about Dansk and Not Just Just Hit Me like It's Hot Bricks and Breaking Home and Told Breanna about It and I Was Looking at Six That Night When I Went Home Because I Just Been so so Self Absorbed and yet I Just Totally Change My Viewpoint on Everything That I Do Now. Just like Yeah I Think That I Have the Right Motivation.

How Because I Do Just Want to Glorify God and to Help Anybody Who Might Be Listening to This Podcast but There Was Definitely a Prime Factor Going on There Big Things That I Realized Was This Point Where I Felt like I Could Debate Latter Day Saints Really Well and I Have A Lot Of These Articles out Things That Then Their Business Opportunity Cost Where Maybe Two Years You Know and I'm like Where's My Sanctification. How Is My Relationship with Christ. Brown and Miss Timon and I Had to Step Back and Say It Hasn't.

It Really Hasn't and I Need to Step Away from This Because This Is a Distraction and I Need to Build That Relationship with God, and I Need to Get into the Bible and I Need to I Need to Focus on Christ Right Now and so I Did.

I Took That Great Sexy Brightly Got Married a Year to Be Here Often. At First It Was Really Hard Just like I Couldn't Get off of Facebook and Stop Debating Latter Day Saints. I Finally Just Got Away from Here Was Just so Essential for Me to Actually Just Grow in My Faith and I Would Say That Anybody Is X. Latter Day Saints Wants to Jump Right in the Ministry. I Really Advise against It, and I Remember That Time and Then Reaching out to around That Time about Starting the Podcast As I Was Just Kinda Coming Out Of Seminary and Thinking Okay What Where My Going with This Ministry Thing and What Is What's Gonna Look like and I Reached out to You and I Remember You Telling Me You Know I Really Need to to Take This Time and Explain Why. And I Remember Thinking You Know. Yeah That's That's Really Mature and Really Good Thing to Be Doing and I Was Still Happy to Postpone and Just Keep Planning for the Time When We Would Actually Bring It to Fruition, but I Think That Was a Good Move on Your Part Question to the Lord.

What One Thing That I Struggle Transition to Christianity Was That I Felt like There Was Less There Is Experience That It All Leading the Mormon Church Feeling like Okay No Longer Have the Priesthood Is Not Temples Anymore What the Church Are Going to Have That Feeling at All since My Deconstruction about the Struggle, Where's All the Stuff about the Afterlife. I Wasn't As Much of like There Was Mormonism Struggled about 1000 Myself Experience That Involves Well after One Thing I Really Struggle with Is like When I Saw When I Was Still LDS Are Struggling. You Know from Identity or Just Feeling I Have A Lot Of Perfectionistic Tendencies That Also Feed into My Procrastination, Which Is a Really Bad Combination Because You Don't Want to Start Something Because It's Can Be Terrible, so They Just Wait Wait Wait until the Last Minute and Then You like Got Three Hours to This Homework Assignment Was to Do It Even If It's Garbage so I Really Struggle with That and Sauce Struggle with like Beating Myself up A Lot Not Being Good Enough and the One Thing That Always Gave Me Cover Was This Idea That I'm a Priesthood Holder You Know I'm an Elder in the Church and I Hold Melchizedek Priesthood. Not Perfect, but I Feel like I'm a Worthy and Then like You Know Being in the Temple and Not Suck Connections to That of like the Priest of the Old Testament Is like Leaving That behind. I Was like Well so You Mean I'm Just a Guy. Now I Just Go to Church and I Just Praise God and like All the Learning I've Had Is Catlike for Nothing You Know and like All My Experiences As a Missionary and Those like You Know I'm Just a Normal Dude. Now That Was Really Hard for Me to to Deal with Not so Much the.Differences in Doctrine, Just Because I Felt like the Bible so Rich When You Really Dive into It There so Much You Can Learn, but I Do See, What You Mean in the Sense of like Less Detail.

I Guess You Know like in the Sense of There's Not the Different Degrees of Glory and There Was No Pre-Mortal Existence, You Know, Shifting Ideas on That but I Didn't Really Bother Me. I Was like Well If It's in the Bible Believe That It Was More Personal Identification of Being like All While Amenable about Your Believer Now and I Believe in Christ but like Tonight since I Struggled with Feeling Clinical Special. I Guess Letting Us One Thing the LDS Church Does Is in a Sense Is Make You Feel like You Know You're so Awesome You're so Special. You're Different Than Nobody Else Here. You Know, and That Catholic Account Lost That but I Really Just Took Time. McKenna Shift That That's Thinking around. It Took Time and to Realize like You Know Were All Leaders in Christ You Know Are All Part of the Royal Priesthood, in a Sense to Worry Offer Sacrifices of of You Know Our Time and Our Abilities in Our Faith to Christ on a Sense Were Still Priests but the Outsiders Those What I Struggle with A Lot. I Know That I Struggle with That.

I Definitely See That As a Is Kind of a Comment That Is Given Often When I'm Having Dialogue with Latter Day Saints Is Things That You Mentioned the Priest of the Temple's Kind of the Anthropocentric Humans Human Centered, Theology of the Sense That If I Were to Leave Mormonism I Would I Would Lose This Whole Sense of My Destiny Were and What I Can Become Right. The Others Deftly There's Deftly That Is a Sentiment I Don't I Don't Think That I Really Struggled with Because of the Way I Left Mormonism Because the Way I Kind of Deconstructed through That Liberal Side of the Mormonism System More Orthodox Theology and MMN Practices like Temple Attendance Kind of Fell by the Wayside. Several Years before I Left Mormonism inside Guide Kind of Stuff That down before I Started Studying Christianity in Them.

When I Did Study Christianity and Commented into the Gap of the of Christian Theology in the Depths of the Symbolism of Woven throughout the Bible. Both Old Testament and New Testament Really Kind of Sparked an Interest in Man's inside and I Don't Think I Had That Feeling but I Do Get That from Latter Day Saints That I Talked to Think That's Less Than I Would Say That Sometimes Less Is More, Though, and Yelled One of Things I Really like Is Just That No That That Phrase Be Still and Know That I Am God. There Is Definitely Something about Not Being so Busy and Actually Just Sitting Back in and Looking at God and Wonder and See All That He Is Don Resting in the Lord.

Those Are All Concepts That Were Completely Foreign to Me As a Latter-Day St. I Think There's A Lot More in There and yet for a Little While I Was Going to That Team Dan Where It's Just like Okay like There's There's No Boundaries Here. One of the Churches Is Going to like There's No Liturgy or Anything like This Just Feels Very Shallow and like Hannah Found Some of the Churches That I Was Trying out Originally They Were Kind of Shallow Because They Weren't Really Teaching Bible Very Box in the Ma�tre D' like a Reverse or Two, and What I Found Kind of Helped Me Was Going to Church Where They Been Just Focus on One, One Chapter of the Bible and They Just Read through That and Talk about What That Means for Me Having a Little Bit More Scripture Helps and Actually Reading Scriptures the Sky. My Answer to That Is Just Less Is Less, Is Any Thoughts on That Piano Really Appreciate You Wailing on the Struggled with a Long Time Looking for All the Dancers in the Bible You Know Mormonism More and Honestly, until I Really Just Let Go and Made a Determination Will Be the Price Unlocking Control, Which Is Something That Was Instilled in Me Growing up As Everything You Do. You Control Your Salvation so You Really Give It All up to Christ. Know That Your Is Really Don't Know Little of That He Has Bought All of Your Transitions Talk about Just Comes over You Will Do Is Post Negotiation Questions Is, I'll Even Just Be Anything You Can Take Our Word on a Sabbatical.

Now Think You Guys Are Saying That Appreciate It.

One Thing Really Help Me to Is Just Realizing That When You Read the Bible As a Latter-Day St. I Was Always Thinking about like What Is God Promising Me, like What Is He Going to Give Me Know and I Want to Read the Bible, but No, I like When You Read the Bible You See Find out That It's Not about What God Is Doing for Me, but It's about God. It's about Us Glorifying God.

It Is by His Plan of Redemption Deck That Changed A Lot for Me to so Do You Guys Have Any Advice for Listeners That You Haven't Already Given Tonight.

You Know, like Maybe People Who Are Struggling with the Transition. Or Post-Transition or Who Are Afraid to Dive in and You Know Make That Decision to Leave the District Stealing Advice for Them. I Have One Thing That Just Comes in My Mind and That Is to Things. It's Natural to Feel a Little Bit Angry When We Leave the Mormon Church but I Wouldn't Say Don't Don't Unleash That on Your LDS Friends and Family and Just Keep in Mind That You Know the Gifts. The Gift of Grace Is It's a Really Good Gift and When What It Boils down to It, We Don't Have Anything to Be Angry or Upset about, You Know, We Were Very Bright Blast and That's Something I Think We Get It.

Keep in Mind As X Latter Day Saints That I Am Suggest, One Thing I'm like to Conclusion on Struggled a Little Bit with the Title for This Episode, We Kinda We Kinda Set up for A While As You Know Advice for the Post Mormon Baby Christian Man I Was Thinkable. Maybe It Will Be Advised for the Post Mormon New Christian. Maybe That Will Be Less Offensive.

But I Think Back about My Experience Leading the LDS Church and Mattie Touched on the Side.

Your Your Special Because You Hold the Priesthood Right and I Got Back I Carried with Me As I Laughed and Jumped Right into a Christian Church I Wanted to Get Involved Right Away Because That's What I Did Right Is As a Latter-Day St. in Your Calling.

You Do It in Some I'm Jumping and Try to Find It Was My Calling Here and I Hudson Some Really Good Mentors. The Pastor Who Was the Kind of in Charge of the Men's Group at the Church. He Did Kind of Bring in and Give Me Opportunities to Teach First from His Outlines and Then to Work with Me to Do to Develop an Outline for a Lesson on My Own on a Wednesday Night Bible Study, and He Reviewed That Give Me Pointers and You Really Did a Good Job Mentoring Me through That Could Help Me Realize You Know That It's Okay to As Loud As X. Latter Day Saints Coming into Christianity. It's Okay to View Yourself As a Baby Christian. Because There Are Significant Differences That You Need to Understand If You're Going to Be Involved in Preaching the Gospel, the True Gospel to Others, and so It Is Okay to Allow Yourself That Period of Time Where You Just Learn and Study and Grow and Allow the Holy Spirit to Teach. I Did Not Cut a Resistance against� Hey I'm Not Been a Christian My Entire Life Not Been Living There Sometimes Went on a Mission to Europe, You Know This and Get This Stuff.

It Didn't Take Me Very Long to Realize Will Wait a Minute.

There Are Some Things I Really Don't Get That I'm Integrally Really Understand. So My Advice Would Be. Allow Yourself to See Yourself As a Baby Christian. And Don't Think of That As Offensive As Beautiful.

Yet I Felt Same Way. It Was Interesting That We Each Had Different Reactions Only Left LDS Church How It Sounded like from Brandon Michael That They Wanted Some Breathing. They Wanted Some Room to Breathe and Not Have To Rely Callings and Things like That. Where Is Paul.

I'm Kinda with You Where I Got to the Church and I Felt like I Was Benched in a like No I Can't Go Semiannual. The Bad I Want Something to Do but Then It Really Is Planning on Yeah so Did They Just Take Humility like Tumbling from the Spirit.

I Think to Realize You're Not in a Position Quite yet to to Really Do What You Want to Do and It's Can Take Some Time and Some Nurturing Errors Here so It's It's Such a Shaky Time Right after You Leave the Church and Going to Christianity. You Know like You Really You Really Need to Understand What Do I Believe.

What Does the Bible Say and How I Reach People Because If You If You Don't Know Those Things and You're Still Struggling and Are Trying to Piecemeal Gather Information from like Websites and Apologetic Sources of You like I Want to Refute All Their Argumentation. I Want to Debate Everybody That's like Sure Fire and Always for Disaster Data Granted Anything to Add to That Question Based on My Last Advice Will Be the Social Future Stages for the Social Pieces to Snow Every Christian Church That I've Gone to Very Strong Family Values That Some Comes from You Right so Just Know That Those Boots Create Those New Social Ties Each Church Family. Did You File You and Find What Works for You, but Also, Don't Be Afraid to Look. Growing up They Called Anti-Mormon Doctrine, Not to Read Any Anti-Mormon Doctrine Whole Thing. Good Morning Planes.

We Have Science the Backside. They Go and Look at the. America Doesn't Match with the City They Came from.

So Snow Snow That Obviously Be Careful about What You Look at the Bible Gospel in the Bible. Don't Be Afraid to Explore and Look at What's out and Maybe, Maybe, Is There Something That You Wish You Knew at the Beginning That You Know Now Maybe Maybe Some Advice for Younger Self Stay Away from That Michael Got That Is Good Advice Here. Mary Is Very Nervous To Restrictive Will so Go Continuing Very Interesting. Michael Some. Now I Know It Was like When You're Single and in the Christian Think More Time Developing Spirituality and Prayer for a Moment.

There Are Eight. Once I Got into a Relationship That It Wasn't like Ender, like Slowed down A Lot Initially but Can Be Very Helpful to Have Someone by Your so Got That Same Grounding Me Michael Together. Eric Took Some Time Now Is Going to Church Together Were Able to Run Together so There Are Some Challenges That Can Come When You're Alone and That There Is Also Some Blessings and Benefits to Tail.

You Act Alone That Is Going to Give Opportunity Pass Whatever Circumstance You so Question That I'm Going to Ask That I Shouldn't but I'm Going to Anyway.

Would You Say That It's Normally Not a Good Idea to Get in a Relationship Is a New Christian, Probably Can't Really Say Lucky Share Definitely Felt Some Guilt You Not Think That Whole Thing like like She's Brand-New I Wasn't Thinking like This That in Retrospect on, like They Could Be Easily Seen When I Was Thinking like This She's Vulnerable, She Knew No Exit, Mormon, Christian, and I Just Jumped Right in Their Slight Sleep Picking Somebody up at a Funeral or Something like That Is about to Because I Struggled like I Was Leaving the Church. I Was Actually Engaged to Be Married You'll You'll Know This but so and I Transitioned out That Relationship Ended and I Was Kind of Those Are Getting over That the Same Time, but and Then I Didn't Gonna Date for Probably like like Two or Three Years or Something like That. After That, and so I Try to Make the Most of That Time Really Grounding Myself in Scripture You Know and I Got It Was Funny Because I Got to a Point Where I Felt like You Know It. Like If God Really Wanted Me to It. I Was Praying A Lot about in Our Thinking, like You Know If God Really Wanted Me to Be Single for a Long Time. Or, You Know Definitely Whatever I Could. I Could Do and I Feel like I Got to Point Where I Was Stable Enough That I Could Then Have That Worry That Stress That Mormons Having a like Oh My Gosh You Know You Married My Salvation Is Tied to Be Married in the Temple It's Got to Get Married in.

I Got like I Got over That and Then It's like a Month Later I Started Dating the Current Girlfriend so I Know God Has Come an Interesting Way of Working Things out. The Yeah I Think That Time That the 23 Years Were Just Really Should Study the Bible and Answered All My Questions like, You Know, It Was Baptism for the Dead Is Not a Real Thing.

And What about Life after Death.

Where Do We Go Things like That.

I Think Just Grounding Myself and All Those Things Was Is Really Beneficial to Me and Not Having to Worry about Relationship. At the Same Time, but Do You Know Teacher on a Month I Would Say That You Should Begin to Relationship Personally but You Do Have A Lot Less Time to Just Think about Things. Then When You're Single When You're Single, You Have A Lot Of Time to Just Sit around and Kinda like Think Philosophically, like the Meaning of Life That Kinda Stuff so There Is This Benefit to Both like You so There's a Support Structure for Dating Someone That You Don't Have in Your Single on Times, but This Pros and Cons That I Know about the Whole Relationship Thing Because Nigel and I Did the Whole Transition Together but I Totally Thought That Where Breanna Was Coming Was No When She Was Single. She Had All This Time to to to Learn and Kinda Growing Relationship with the Lord and Then When She Met Michael That She Had to Take on the Responsibility of Birmingham along You Know� So She Was Killed. Maybe It Was yet and I Have Stomach Cancer.

Humana Five Kinds Going on Zero Now While the Cats, Michael, What Association Has Light with Darkness. As Was His Think. Thank You Guys for for Joining Us so the Only Thing Is That If Not, Will Probably Disclose out They Have a Missile That Has Been Good about Regressing to Content and I Advised Her for People Is a Really Good Discussion. We Enjoyed Having You on the Lot. Dannon I Think Will Probably Lose All His Probably Go Back to Be with the Lord Here in the Next Year to Decide on a Profit on the Proper Disciples That Just Lazy. I See This Different One of the Signs Three Goals Greatly All Memory in Man. I Think You Both for Coming. I Really Appreciate It.

Hearing Your Perspectives and Experiences. Just Kidding, You Know That I Think I Know It Try to Get This Thing Together. Now I Just Rip It Apart That I Got Keeping the Ship Together with Bubblegum and Duct Tape inside out. I'll Give You the Other Points Just Basically like Halfway through Just Cut out Everything That Michael Is in Good Vomited Youngest to Be What Time Is It. After about 10 O'clock Our Time Just Glad You Saw That One Point, like Linking Is like He's Looking Tired and Mr. Penn Came out after the Reformation into This of the Outer, Please Visit the Face and Feel Free to Send Us a Message That Sent a Message of the Pain Appreciated the Page Life. We Also Have and How to Write His and Other Also Send This on Your Subscribed to the Other Brightness Podcast on This Test Box Cast the Modified Stitcher. Also You Can Check on YouTube Channel. If You like. Shortly Surveyed Also Connect with Michael Just One Lungs and Sometimes Poland Will Music for the Other Brightness Podcast Is Graciously Provided by the Talented Breanna Flournoy and by Adams Road. Learn More about Adams Road. By Visiting Their Ministry Page. It Adams Road Ministry.com State Right Fireflies to Show the Way in and in the He Is in a Will and