Advice for the Post-Mormon, New Christian

Shines in the darkness we were all born and raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints court in Salt Lake City, Utah, more commonly referred to as the Mormon all of us have left that religion have been drawn to faith in Jesus Christ based on biblical teachings name of our podcast outer brightness reflects John 19 calls Jesus, the true light gives light to every we have found life beyond Mormonism to be brighter than we were told in the light, we have is not our own. It comes to us from without. Thus, our brightness, our purpose is to share our journeys of faith in what God has done in drawing us to his son.

We have conversations about all aspects of the transition fears, challenges, joys, and everything in between were glad you found us and we hope you'll stick around listening. However, this contrast for post-Mormons who are drawn by God, to walk with Jesus and turn away out of this mess. Brightness wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Here except for Michael's finger that is angry that is angry. That is why Matthew, the nuclear colonist Michael BX Mormon apologist Paul Bunyan. So, welcome fireflies to this episode of the outer brightness podcast and as you can see today we have two new guests. Well, I guess not. New guest see Breanna before, but we do have to guess us today.

Breanna and Dan so we'd like to thank them for coming in welcome them to the outer brightness podcasts are granted and welcome ethics are common so the reason we have these two guests on our podcast as they are very similar to Paul and Michael a.k.a. Dr. Pepper and that they are both post-Latter Day Saints who have found faith in Christ.

And so the topic of our episode today as we are going to discuss what it's like being a post-Mormon and the new Christian, so this episode you want to really focus on advice for the post-Mormon new Christian. And so Breanna Danna really can help us with this topic. So were going to kind of talk to them interview them and give some advice from them, hear their background and their stories and will Just have a discussion. Go back and forth will share all of our advice so we have this come share background. The shared history of being Latter Day Saints and leaving and coming to Christ, so that's going to be the topic of discussion for today. So starting off. Let's start off with Breanna so the both of you in turn so it was like a 5 to 10 minute synopsis of your journey from Mormonism and to Christianity.

So I asked my parents there.

Convert says adults going out we were known as the combo plan years where first of our families yeah yeah going out. I really idolize my father spiritual figure in my life at the strongest hinged my testimony because keywords the metering letter whole family, church and everything partner activities I went to use firing girls camp staff years down the row as I was much older. Spread going to get worse and shattered the world comments that time it wasn't the first time that my father, my parents, they were struggling whole reason why mom and this wasn't the first and years ago before that happened when he was destabilizing for me in my faith became agnostic, I was suffering through depression. Several years during that time it happened again. It was it was much worse girl that happened years before.

I will first I was 16 tough. I was already struggling with my social circle. I didn't quite have a lot of friends growing up. I only have faith you already did a question everything. When this happened like the church was my foundation for everything you could rely upon my dad.

I thought he was a strong perfect but what really got me was when parents went to go get the stick side with and guess I did. My mom basically was her fault that she went for some time.

I so when I became a Gnostic facility asked that I turned attending the church that I was secretly agnostic and now that was real.

Church was true, but I kind of got myself into relationship some pretty dark path.

No, I could keep with this question God, how because at that point was suicidal to my hell, so that I found some things about the church and Christianity chapter online videos with mythology in the church and when he realized that after spending some time to the church was not true also that Jesus did everything for me and other people because he will always let you down but Jesus everything my story, I echo Paul's words really appreciate your sharing that with us must be like anyone you know going through what you've gone through, but thank you for sure now that I know it's kind of hard and hopefully will make you know you feel comfortable, you know, if you ask follow-up questions will try to be careful to you know not go to probing. Try to be considerate so thank you for that. Have any follow-up questions whether you have questions for you. Thank you again for showing up so Dan would like to share is that with the sole of your story or journey from monism to Christianity church road where I will still all all already shared a little bit about where we never really felt like a good Mormon person but Mormon families, church, so I wasn't the standard Mormon so I really felt like a so looking back years because you never saw myself Mormon culture also stored one family. We were also around the table and all ways. We are all talking about going all foreign language Mormon culture.

My brother really good about what so is my post and I remember I was last to go on my best friend went right before I remember trying to explain all physical right to run out how to prevent Jenny's last so really make a lot of sense be brought up about four more sense mold really so was really when I was a slight rebel like a more and more, so it moves often in class primary class and I remember one talking about the devil and how the impacts happens in the world you know is available as smart Alec looking back at what I totally would use Marshall happened to get stuck and I remember this guy for teacher of was very, very straight-line Mormon women was to play with you and call right next to his wife dressed, like a home address is most got so upset when I asked? He sent me back to primary younger kids for my lessons but that day they were handed out cookies so it was so my mom my mom really big drivers for the church is true you know a lot of hanging on doing a lot of years was impacted by my mom and I really just want to make her proud and so I went to seminary went through everything throughout high school and all that.

So my mom, met a girl in high school my now wife Mary, my high school sweetheart, so I met her, I started going to church with her family really think they can help you out of Mormonism and help answer a lot of questions with lot just tried to as do we all figured it all out so my journey questions. So suck at what age did you ever really feel like you identified yourself as a Mormon or Latter Day Saints or did you just feel like while this is the church I go to the odds are really part of your identity funny about it. I never really felt like a long long with them but even after I left the church, so you all the time you might my wife had a really hard time being Lutheran with go to school with all of the different Mormons when they will treat her deeper, on the outskirts and so she should have a good feeling about, I would find myself just banged against her so funny you asked like a really white by myself to with my dad for a long time. There are some things happen in his life or he kind of went inactive in the church but he had served a mission before doing that, and is the same thing like my uncle. I don't know. I guess he he left the church and he joined some kind of I don't know if it's evangelical or what kind of church, but he would come talk to my dad and he would say a lot of disparaging things about Joseph Smith on the phone with my dad.

You know, and even I was inactive at the time he just got this heated discussion is that you don't even know you're talking about, you know you I don't know what your pastor taught you so it's it's interesting like when you when you see that opposition to Cadillac stirs up some kind of I want. I do not inscribe some kind of visceral emotion. Or, you know, this deep-seated idea than you did.

Otherwise you wouldn't really think about consciously when they hit that when they when they hit a certain spot and you know I can't remind you something in a Stirs up emotions of Ken lay dormant for a while. A brand of wood you got of so the same question for you like. Did you ever feel like when you were younger you associated identified yourself as Latter Day Saints or was considered very strong until totally changed world did you ever struggled with ideas of like kind like we talked about maybe not quite fitting in or did you feel like you were, you know you are in the church and like that's where you belong kind of feeling is both really very much but I think is very introverted intent shy away from social action but I love being Scriptures. Dr. and a lot of kids my age church think care good while social staff can definitely like the social aspects either like my mission was a nightmare. Those first few months to get out of that shell like never being thrown on the street in France being barely knowing how to say hello and French and my trainers like RA go talk to the guy on my clock what someone was able this is crazy I can I can speak a language and in the government by moderate a couple words and that he just kept walking like it wasn't too bad your first draft. So yeah Doria and I can relate to the whole introverted thing in Struggling. That way, like feeling part of the group and you know because you're not extroverted, like a lot of other Latter Day Saints arts difference about you guys look like to is you say how hard it was something for the first time in fraction. I was just thinking and doing it in English wasn't any easier to talk about what to speak about. This is really awkward as I expected, likes to contact the zeros as the mission went on in terms of once.

Once I better speak your language.

On the other engage people better. And when I was like nine months and really pick up the language well and uncrossed to contact in my second area was the same people just walk pastor. They just wanted to get to work or wherever they were headed out so and Dan did you serve a mission is just one ask you a question Dan if it's okay because I want to know what was going on between you and Paul at that time because I guess he went on a mission. After that he try to bring back into Mormonism or anything I would say some someone will have a lot of discussions. I don't recall any real a lot of pressure from my mom and brother.

My other sister strong as well but I don't know I probably spoke French is not in my head about yet.

It is a lot of pressure there. And I definitely felt that when you talk social asset of the church know I have a lot of friends in the church not really friends with them anymore. Other than a few friends are my friend you the ones that are still have a legal Mormon church are not interested really interact reach out to you among Facebook sport really, they were really interested in talking when I go back home.you show up in my mom that's that's the problem. He said the B word you say are getting a Mormon friends to come but wanted to ask people to go hang out have her beer floats sounds kinda weird. What is this like seventh grade. It's interesting to when you said that he had some conversations with Paul because Paul had talked about. Subsides how he had Artie started questioning during his mission, so the house that can have those conversations while you work yourself out already having questions. Paul knows it was kind of weird time. I was the first child in our family, the server mission. My older sister did not and so I felt I felt a lot of pressure to try to make sure that I brought the younger siblings along the covenant path as best I could write here. Danny said he doesn't remember much about that. It's probably just slipped his mind, but I felt like I do feel like I put quite a bit of pressure on you when when I came home I know it was coming back to Utah after having spent two years in Europe was a tough transition, even though I spent those years as Latter Day Saints missionary was not Utah.

You know, and so being back in Utah was really tough and I met Angela and we got pretty serious with our relationship pretty quickly. And, the first chance I got, which is when she said you wanted to move out here since I moved out there so I was only home from my mission. I may have 1999 and I left you time. December 1999, right after Christmas and Danny is seven years younger than I am. So he was in the middle of his teenage years at that point I guess probably just starting with the real question because you're probably around 14 of the time or something and so when I when I moved out here came out to visit. And of course you know you try to put on a good big brother front and I were faithful in the church that can course, I had questions.

I remember picking you up from the airport in global and driving back and you ask questions about different things and course. Dad was telling me you were struggling struggling church and I felt like I do quite a bit of pressure on you to serve a mission. If you remember that or not but I feel like telephone conversations with really tried to encourage in that direction.

I felt bad about it because it was clear wasn't something you were you were going towards. But, and I was trying to decide for you along the covenant path so she feels kind of like when I was really struggling toward questioning around 2005 1015 to 16, or before a kind of left to deal district.

I kind of ramped up my defense of the church is kind of like compensation. I guess for the questions I had. Did you have similar thoughts like that Paul and your talking to Dan and others.

Oh yeah for sure mad.

I have had names of becoming an apologist and I wanted to study archaeology and find the evidence for the book of Mormon and Central America was kind of work where my mind was, in terms of what I was in a study did not ultimately go that direction, but yeah spent a lot of time online reading (quite kicked off at that point but reading stuff from farms and ends shields and some of the other apologetics towards the sites that were up at the time. Yeah, that's that's yeah we had some experience or notice that sometimes when a single Latter Day Saints and it seems like were not getting anywhere while times when they're the most vehement in their defense of the church is, when there almost at the breaking point. So sometimes a top hard to tell when they are at in their faith, but you also do not think I will read talk that earlier lesson we have anything to add wanted to talk more about the transition area.

So you both, described in your stories you're the transition between Latter Day Saints and Christian Breanna. You kind of talked about how there is a period in your life or your agnostic did you. Could you tell us a bit more about that. I don't to be unwanted to probing. But did you read kind of questioning the existence of God and Jesus were did you were there certain things of the other district she still held onto their difficult to let go of, or would like to talk about the well will is more questioning whether God was real or not and I can only now I have to be true honey, but there is kind of like some of the cultural things that were little bit. It was still a big deal like true and shot at the same time experimenting background while still attending church and the question was simple question just mortgage is about the transition from being a believing Latter Day Saints to nonbelieving you like Kelly I think you have to do pretty well.

You elected your ideas and beliefs change slowly over time or was a collection all or nothing change or did you even between Christianity and Mormonism. Did you leave other things. So just tell that that transition.

Well, ideas anyways about the Bible and picking out they believe that it's been corrected. Missing pressure-treated. I question was whether I will could be reliable or break the history really got my attention to now Bible seems to have a lot more validity. Yes, Scripture and so that you that okay. I was a lot more reliable.

So look into this Christianity like you. I was also late. Back to reached out and support the post on call. I older man and he reached out during talking to Jean speaking yes morning. Years ago, and things that got him to not eat with their resources to help me pass that's great and you and yours. You're also speaking earlier about how so not only your word, having more faith and understanding in this authority and the reliability of Scripture. You're also Describing how you can rely on Jesus alone right, could you talk a middle bit more about that, like learning to trust in Jesus, rather than an organization or yeah Dell Jesus takes a moment to respond to that question come to when I realize that this fixture reliable learning about his background and everything there is a video then watched on YouTube yesterday and I don't remember it is called the gospel for Mormon think and was actually during video watching several of his staff is doing rainy that is sort of middleman godlike. You could talk to God directly and wants relationship with God's part. Being I just didn't really have a close relationship to think about kings and queens are like celebrities like people like their outreach God came down he Became more relatable and I asked that so transitioning from your district to Christianity would say that the God felt closer to you.

Lori felt more real to you about how to that transition will I came to a point where conditional love is like grace and before that I never experienced that love in my life. So when things did not. That's great thank you very much. How do you guys anything that I do not. Kind of taken control the conversation so because much of been anything but full question I can think back to like one.

One part of my teen years where I was transition you were agnostic. Going through the motions for my family and I had a paradigm shift where all my thoughts change on I was still like maybe it's true the talk about. Don't be on so point in my teenage years. I'm sure some histories. One moment shifted you as well or just consistent throughout really happen. But, like gradually started developing more going through different experiences that people were perfect the first time my mom it was hard for it and I just thought people on this stuff and had a problem with this one story, told young women's where this idea like gum if you heard about one is aware like basically if you get into lots has to be an incident involves another person before marriage and before you go to the temple worth. So basically our completely virtuous and clear strategy, Temple-Inland, EarthLink, there Jesus you know he forgive the woman who committed adultery. There is little moment like that where over time to start having some issues something like this and was a member of the church is for short time, and last but she told me I guess my experience as a man was different women go through the church and chewed gum analogy to limit Breanna can stencil just behind the scenes for me and told me she was holding young women's classes if somebody tried to rape her, or any of them that it was the it was better to die than survive that and be a victim of rape because having your chassis taken is just that section is such a horrible thing to tell people that, even if it's against your will and something happens like you are no longer virtualized server wanted her, you know, word of the and you never will be again. It's just incredibly strict disharmony only pattern and I just forgotten about entered the chewed gum example but I did remember hearing Kim if it is just a thing. The Mormon said to each other or if it is on like on like a Mormon movie but they said it's like if you are when you go on a mission. It's better to come home in a box than to come home early yesterday. Not that man's rough cut of the same thing. It's like really, you know what a pet I come in I did have my data, my parents, but I mean if you're to say that your kid is pretty messed up readily die than come home dishonorably young one.

They would in stillness that the other guys don't go on missions or that I have 13 or 14. I remember you gathering they were talking about next March and so they were building this this is this is why the church is true God is. This is showing guys what the church is time I was, no on the fence is not really leave the direction and so really the point where pages go missing.

Okay okay about them no place change like whoa go back and translate them is not true. In my eyes so Bell's just a real paradigm shift in my whole thought process because I can't believe you really find a way to get out of this so you know what I graduated high school dating school sweetheart mom the reservation center yourself may quote the reservation center in Salt Lake so Vermont transferred to Albuquerque so I remember my dad sitting down with the night before. Basically pleading with me not to go and basically said you know this is really what you want to do but he said I don't think you should know this is the right girl for you and you basically bore my testimony to love this girl and children will really have so save it yo my transition from one is Christianity in large part because their Lutheran no one my conversations about how to construct everything that I was taught about becoming a doll on Sunday while I went guess is never really click you connected from the Bible to the book of Mormon seminary class that was was a hard lesson to Christian church to church and listen to the pastor there are a lot of ways I thought that I thought I knew about this for accurate work: I've had a lot of special years deconstruct a lot of really show the weight with a lot of stuff is Scripture at all, just a bridge that Mormonism to the Bible so this is challenging the talk bad about it when you started to attend the Lutheran Church with Lauren and her parents did.

You started to attend with them in Salt Lake City before you went to Albuquerque right yeah of the church is that would play basketball that were when wants to play basketball so that was the church. Jim suggested just a few times in Utah before you make Albuquerque yeah a few of you gathering but really it probably wasn't on the Texas ships exhausted, but I have never really I would go again. I was going to the motion that there was a God is what capacity Breanna touched on a little bit relationship I really did develop a relationship with Jesus and so Texas was the pastor of the Lutheran Church has to pass just directly to do so in touch so spiritually in touch with everything that the congregation was doing the light room felt like every week you just hungry just really fantastic and a lot of waving changed changed my views really help Jesus encourage you to job were was it like starting to attend the Lutheran Church in particular. But the Christian church as a former latter-day St. were there with her things about the worship service to the communion that that were different and difficult for you to kind of adopt or help.

How was that as experience for you as a someone I know you were kind of agnostic. At first, and New Mexico, but was unlike starting to attend a Christian church and think through those things and experience. But worship service that wasn't was a Mormon is quite different. It was quite different. But in a lot of ways I think traditional service.

My wife's family was fairly easy transition for me it's not it's not live music at all just things mortgagors help me a lot in my transition know this is funny because you with them, but I was always a great juice were warm and I really don't like alcohol standard is still to this day you will drink socially, but really don't like the taste of the sale still so the waters and follow-ups for mandatory fitness and question the Breanna so just curious, do you still attend Lutheran Church are all what church do you attend them with the pandemic started going to church Lutheran Church book is very few temporaries and might be a sister church.

The Alliance of this kind of car parts of on the wall with no cross paid on the car parts still very cool church, but we pastor in the past: got to pastor there just always have about sleeves tattoos are really good guys pastor Lou district to use, he left and went back to his church.

So the pastor came and after images have the same just wasn't the same. Just Justin just hit the same way. So we bounced around several churches around the Dallas-Fort Worth area and try to Methodist Church, 11. We landed at this this church so verse call the quality of the pastor of the talk about Christian J so no place how I sign up about zero, when when the transition did you start attending a Christian church.

What was that like to do first time cell while there I know what church to go to sell.

I started watching some sermons on my strength and theology in church is my first church experience that was really going to church, but then I got connected online with some people that are excellent Christians group and carrying. She helped me carry cheap nearby time Frank chance and she brought me to Calvary Chapel explains that science like this little mega church eight teaching expository factors like each chapter very same person that experiences kind of shocking.

I remember going to service and music is really loud.

They totally different environment and I just down and I was like taking it all and I don't know what to do. She was getting late worshiping her heart out with her hands dancing in the music and print. They also felt like these people felt like more free blank church during second five and hence it there. They were free to worship (heart out and I really like that feeling there is totally different but it is awesome. What about that cost is yeah the first restriction on my after doing some research online. I helped him train his church and tenant being a little freaky for me. Using the evening rank you call it think they have the creature was there and he was like calling us the crowd like I like using something like whatever illness this person in their name and then you see you and you were playing playing around in one point stealing the screen was around is really interesting but a little bit but is good you know like snake churches, first as an expert to place the card one of the guys is like a lead guitarist so when we went to this church is performing more kids so mother-in-law my wife and we pulled into this address for Joe's church and, like an abandoned strip mall is like boarded up windows going.

One of the businesses church only thing in the whole strip center was open so we go in there the whole service seminormal know no more formal than the service know then everybody started stick out Tom's work some weightings crawling up the middle of white churches like the guitar player sole reason waited to point out earlier when you guys sound like your church is a lot more exciting than mine. It's like if you've ever attended. Like in most Mormon churches is kind of like the steady background noise of kids in ruffling and people eating chinos or whatever but it's like he is about.

He felt really uncomfortable in my church because we have a cry room and we don't keep the babies in the in the actual worship in the sanctuary.

So it's like sometimes you can my care pin drop like sometimes I reach my pocket to get a tissue like careful, don't do it you know it's like mission impossible enormous any alarms you know that if they call Calvinist the frozen chosen for a reason, so you been right.

If you were to visit to keep the air down really low thereto good one so in the any of these churches that you've visited. After your transition out of discharge. Did you encounter any kind of legalism legalistic tendencies and if he did, how did you handle that sedan sounds like no but you Breanna now not really experiencing going to church but I do see more online with some of the Christian forms that it is interacting with a lot of Christians on Facebook or discussion groups because they could buy be the nicest people you'd ever know. But as soon as you bring up the topic of baptism or gifts of the spirit. It's like you know the gloves are off. And you know they just turn into wildebeests so let you know I could talk to in person and their nickel people so you think the Internet just engenders a kind of more more conflict. Unfortunately, yeah, I agree with that� I've been seeing a lot of it recently to like, especially with the election.

You know both sides, you're not a real Christian. If you vote for someone so slight that's ridiculous and then Halloween came and there's always always post online like your false Christians are the ones celebrating Halloween everything just like Leah because of my my Mormon background and all legalism there. You know, but I'm just like, okay, that's a false dichotomy, even if that's true even if it's wrong to celebrate Halloween like there's not just those two cats, but this should still release the third camp which is no people who are estate yeah were done the research, just like another automaticallyChristians in this one just gets to me, most of it is just judgmental background that we came from. And every time I see it, it just makes me want to step down immediately like I have no tolerance threshold for it at all. Now if you guys are better at dealing with it than I am but it's just very hard for me and very triggering for me whenever I see that I struggle with.

Mostly I just learned to early on I probably would've said something I saw going on like a Facebook group that where I was involved, but I realize it just long time just lease arguments and it is. It is one of those things. Words later. Do I start arguing with this Christian Facebook group where there might be Latter Day Saints to use that as evidence that were not unified in my kind of thing. So this title, let it go. Most times, but my my my experience with with legalism churches is that it was really refreshing actually because I remember one of the first, so I