The Heart of Christian Investing

The following program was prerecorded, so our phone lines are not open. A faithful man will abound with blessings, but whoever hastens to be rich will not go unpunished. Proverbs 28, 20.

Hi, I'm Rob West. That verse promises a blessing when we put our faith in God. But what exactly does that look like when it comes to investing? Luke Bolton joins us today to explore the heart of Christian investing. Then we have some great calls lined up, but please don't call in today, because we're prerecorded.

This is Faith and Finance Live, biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Well I've been looking forward to this conversation for some time. Our guest is Luke Bolton. He's the executive for strategic relationships here at Kingdom Advisors, and he's really our go-to guy for understanding faith-based investing. Luke, it's a real privilege to have you on the program. Well, thanks, Rob.

It's an honor to be here. Luke, I'd love for you to begin by telling us how you got involved with investing from a biblical perspective, because it's sort of the opposite experience of many other people in this space. Well, yeah. So for me, theology came first, and then investing. You see, I spent the first decade of my adult life studying biblical theology and was kind of imagining my career in teaching the Bible. But God in His providence, after seminary, gave me a job in wealth management here at a broker dealer in St. Paul.

And every day I was working with financial advisors and investment accounts. So I found myself asking the question, what does this have to do with theology? Yeah, I mean, it took some time, but the Lord showed me that my training could actually apply in this very good line of work. And so I started searching for the overlap between those two worlds, the biblical study world and the investment management space. And so now after working in this industry for about 10 years, I see it as part of my mission to help other believers see their investing through the lens of God's Word.

Well, and we're so glad you found that overlap because you play a vital role in Kingdom Advisors and all the work that we're doing to serve God's people. You mentioned that lens of God's Word. If we look through a biblical lens, Luke, how does that change the way we see investing from your perspective? So as you know, Rob, God has revealed himself through the Bible. And the message of the Bible is really about what God is doing, calling people to himself, reconciling them through repentance and faith to salvation.

Obviously, this is a very different kind of book than your typical investing 101 type of a manual. And because scripture is really about what God is doing, calling people to himself in a new life, I believe that the first impact of biblical faith on our investing is to ask how we, as the investors, are relating to God. And then to consider how our investment decisions also relate to God. So that's really the first step is to turn from seeing investing as this kind of purely numerical economic decision to actually seeing it as part of our walk with God and as an extension of our heart for worshiping him and even an application of seeking to do his will. So whenever I meet people who want to be or to become faith-based investors, I just encourage them to start with a simple prayer and say something like, Lord, what is it that you are calling me to do with these resources entrusted to me?

I want to do your will, whatever that might be. And so the most foundational issue isn't one of strategy, but one of worship. Are we investing with a heart that worships God, not money, and that honors Christ as our ultimate financial authority? And so if people start with that posture, I believe there are many, many ways that they can then do good and honor the Lord with their investing.

Wow, that's really helpful. And I think a great foundation, Luke, for our conversation today. Well, folks, just after the break, we'll continue this conversation and really talk about the way this heart for God can show up in your investing.

We'll talk about what that looks like in terms of your investing choices, maybe even your investing toolbox and really get practical on how you might apply your faith to your investments. We're talking today with Luke Bolton. Luke is executive for strategic relationships here at Kingdom Advisors, and he's our go-to guy for understanding faith-based investing as we take theology and a heart for God and the gospel and apply that to our deployment of capital and really developing our own convictions as believers. Much more to come with Luke Bolton just around the corner. Stick around.

Well, that music indicates that it's time to take a brief break. Please remember that today's program is pre-recorded, so our phone lines aren't open, but we'll be back with more Faith and Finance Live in just a few moments. Delighted to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm joined today by my good friend Luke Bolton, executive for strategic relationships at Kingdom Advisors, and we're talking about the heart of Christian investing. What does it look like to put our faith in God and beyond that, what does it look like to apply that to our investments? Well, just before the break, Luke was sharing how we can look through a biblical lens and allow that to change the way we see investing. And Luke, as we talk about this heart for God being expressed in our investments, what are some of the ways that can play itself out? Well, yeah, so it all begins with Genesis 1 and 2, where God is calling us to participate in the fruitfulness and the growth and the ongoing development of His world.

So God creates us in His image and then instructs us to manage His world and to cultivate and to enlarge all the potential that He embedded into it. Now, there are many, many ways people can do that, including our work, trade and business, through our relationships. But one way we can contribute to that development of God's world is through investing. So if you look at it at a very high level, investing allows someone to contribute into a financial system that gathers what becomes a large amount of money for use by others. So it's this really fascinating activity that moves money from a person with excess capital to where it can be used by others, like companies, agencies, cities. And so I see investing as fundamentally a good thing. It's good for society, for business, often for the investors themselves and their families. And I know there's a lot more to it than just that, but I would say that investing in general expresses certain aspects of God's will, such as making our excess resources available for use by others, as well as planning ahead for our own future financial needs.

Yeah, and that's, of course, really important. How else might this show up in the area of investing? Obviously, we don't live in Genesis 1 and 2 anymore. And because of the fall and sin, investing is now not only a good thing, it's also a broken thing. And so we know some business projects are going to fail.

Some investments are going to disappoint. Some businesses will make ungodly choices. And so this aspect calls Christ followers to a higher level of discernment and asking, how has this fundamentally good thing of investing been distorted by the fall and sin? And so one impact of that is that some businesses simply will not be worth investing in from a spiritual or moral perspective. And all I'm trying to say here is that as Christians, we know that it's at least possible for a company to be so directly and fully dedicated to a harmful practice that no matter how profitable it may be, believers might want to avoid investing in it.

Yeah, and I can certainly understand that. But avoidance isn't the only tool in the investing toolbox. There are other ways we can apply our faith.

So perhaps you can share some of those. That's right. Nor is avoidance necessarily the most effective way for seeking change in our world. And honestly, there are many, many gray areas where Christians will draw their lines in different places about what they might want to avoid. So I'm not talking about avoiding the majority of businesses out there just because of some political or personal difference or you don't like a policy here or there. What I'm talking about is that less common case where a business's primary product or service itself is something that is clearly against the stated will of God for His world.

Yeah, that makes sense. So how else then might Christians apply their faith to their investing beyond avoidance? Yeah, so that's actually the third aspect. We've talked about the goodness aspect, the brokenness aspect. But there are also ways that investing can be redeemed. And I use that term redeemed to remind all of us that God has purposes at work in this world that are far greater than just restraining what is evil or judging sin. Because we see in the redemption story, God is demonstrating His love for this broken world by rescuing sinners, and restoring what was broken and lost.

We know that Christ came to seek and to save the lost. And so it's not just about purity or pulling back, but a redemptive approach to investing actually leans in to try to focus on achieving something restorative and good by our investing in this world. And so this approach to investing focuses on ways that we can show our love for our neighbor, and actually that we want businesses to succeed that are serving the needs of society. So you might call it a purpose driven investing approach where you're supporting specific kinds of good endeavor. So for example, some faith based funds focus on investing in companies that address real world challenges like cybersecurity, supply chain resiliency, and healthcare solutions. Some focus on investing in causes like education and housing for low to moderate income families, business development in the neediest parts of the world, and clean energy solutions. And so those might be some examples of proactive investing in what we are for.

But Christ also came to call sinners to repentance. And Christian fund managers can actually use their platform to say something, to speak up in the markets for what is good and true with the companies that they interact with and that need to make a change. Some faith based investment managers have worked in this area and have actually seen significant progress, helping companies make positive policy changes.

For example, some leverage their influence to try to bring an end to forced child labor, exploitation, and human trafficking around the world. So I would encourage investors to ask one last question. And that is, how might I invest in an even more Christ like and redemptive way? Oh, that's really helpful, Luke. Well, I know you've helped clients and advisors with this. So what would you say are some of the most common misconceptions then about faith based investing?

Well, sure. I know that when I first heard about it, I thought, what is this a marketing ploy to try to get money from Christians or something? But that actually drove me to take a very serious look at it and to interview the managers and to read the prospectus documents and to watch their financial results over time. And I became convinced that not only is this a longstanding Christian perspective on investing, but it's also just as robust and legitimate as any other public investments out there. These faith based mutual funds and ETFs are fully regulated like every other fund and are openly reporting their risks, their strategies, their fees, and all that. So I personally am very impressed and grateful for the faith based funds that partner with us here at Kingdom Advisors. Perhaps a second misconception is that faith based investing is some kind of Christian legalism that people are trying to force others to do something with guilt. And I won't say that's never happened, but I would say that's an inappropriate way to talk about faith based investing simply because this is a matter of discernment and the liberty we have in Christ. Obviously, it's not an obligation, but I would see it as an opportunity to express our love for Christ, for our neighbors, and for this world and to do good works in His name.

Just like in Ephesians 2 10, he says, for we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works. Wow, that's powerful and really helpful. We're going to have to leave it there. Luke, thanks for stopping by. We'll have to have you back real soon. Thank you for having me. Absolutely.

Well, that's Luke Bolton, Executive for Strategic Relationships here at Kingdom Advisors and FaithFi. All right, we're going to head to a break, so don't go anywhere. Still a lot more to come, even though we're away from the studio today and you shouldn't call in. We have some great questions that you're really going to enjoy as we continue to apply God's wisdom to your financial decisions.

We'll be right back. It's so great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live. This is the program where we mind the scriptures and apply God's wisdom to your financial decisions and choices. You know, I know some of you out there listening thinking, I don't have a whole lot.

I'm just struggling to make ends meet. And you know what? That's a part of the journey as well. We've got to be able to apply God's word to no matter where we find ourselves. Remember the apostle Paul said, I've learned to be content in whatever situation, whether that's in plenty or in need or want. You know, we've got to find that contentment. And yet, in some cases, we've been blessed with a significant amount, an abundance, and we want to be faithful in that. And God's word is clear. That can really trip us up on our spiritual journey. The key is faithfulness to whatever God has provided in this season right now. And that might be in a situation where you're struggling or it might be in a situation where you have a surplus and we want to find God's heart in all of it. Let's head to Texas.

Chris, how can I help you? My question is, is that I have an IRA and I would like to give my daughter cash from the IRA. And I was under the impression, I tried to look it up online and stuff, and it seemed like I can gift, but does it have to be in the form of the IRA that I cannot give gifted as cash without tax consequences? Yeah, you wouldn't be able to give it without paying the tax on it from the IRA. You can do a qualified charitable distribution once you're 70 and a half, but that can't go to an individual. That has to go to a not-for-profit charity. So if you want to give it to an individual, in this case, it happens to be your daughter, you would just take the money out of the IRA.

When you took that distribution from the IRA, that amount, whatever it was, would be added to your taxable income for the year. And then at that point, you're free to do with it whatever you want. And you can make a gift to a family member. As an individual, you can give up to $17,000 this year. If you're a married couple, you could give $34,000, $17,000 each of you, to one individual. And you don't even have to tell the IRS. If you go above $17,000 per person, then you've got to just fill out a gift form. There's no taxes on that. You'll just have to let the IRS know because they'll take it against your lifetime gift exemption of $12 million. So you've got a long way to go before you're going to reach that. Right. It's only like $3,000. Okay, great.

So you would just take the withdrawal from the IRA, the distribution, you're going to add $3,000 to your taxable income for 2023. And then you're free to do with it whatever you want, including giving it away. Okay. Alrighty. I appreciate it. Absolutely, Chris. Hey, and congratulations on your daughter's upcoming wedding. That's exciting.

Brenda is in Virginia. We'll head there next. Go right ahead. My question is that I am a widow who is getting ready to retire. I have money invested with a Christian counselor. And then I have money in savings with all the voices out there at this point in time, talking about how our money is not going to be worth anything or, you know, the government will take it and all of these things that may be conspiracy theories, I don't know. But I was just wondering what your opinion was on that. And where can we put our money so that it will be safe? Or can we put it somewhere? Sure.

Well, I appreciate that. I think there is a lot of fear kind of running rampant out there. And I think especially as believers, we don't need to operate out of fear. We need to ultimately have our trust in the Lord. Now, we also need to be wise. The Bible says we should be shrewd with God's money. And so we need to be thoughtful about how we're handling his money. That doesn't mean we put our head in the sand and just kind of operate aimlessly. We want to be thoughtful and we want to be people of understanding.

And so we see the times in which we live and we make decisions as to how to be a faithful steward in light of what's going on around us. Are there some challenges we're facing, some cultural headwinds, some economic headwinds right now? Absolutely. Is that new? No, I mean, that's always been the case. It's taking on a different form right now. But is there any cause to either a be fearful or be pull out of the banking system or exit the stock market?

No, I don't think so. I think the most important thing is to answer the question, how am I handling the money that's passing through my hands? Am I living on less than I earn? Am I avoiding debt? Am I setting long term goals? Am I giving generously? Do I have some margin or something left over at the end of the month so I can accomplish my goals?

And if the answer to all of those five things is yes, then you're doing your part. And then we go beyond that and say, okay, now how do I operate in light of what's going on around us? And I think right now, the very best thing for you to do with your long term investments, that is those assets that you don't need today that you'd like to perhaps, you know, convert to an income stream now or in the future, but it has an investing time horizon of at least 10 years, I would keep that in the stock market and a properly diversified stock and bond portfolio. I think we will head into a recession later this year, we will also come out of that recession, the markets ready to move to new highs, in my opinion, I think some longer term issues that we have here in this country, like the potential for a debt crisis, just given our, you know, skyrocketing, not only inflation today, but are just astronomical debt levels, because of overspending for a long, long time here in this country that will come to roost.

But I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon. And I think right now, the best way for you to continue to build wealth and overcome the declining purchasing power of your money because of inflation is to keep that invested in real solid companies that have sales and earnings. And remember, our economy here in the US is still the biggest and the strongest, our currency is unrivaled in terms of its strength and lack of manipulation. So I think we should still count on the US economy and banking system, despite everything that's going on around us, because we're in far better position than anyone else in the world. Now, I think the last question you need to really wrestle with though, Brenda, is your values and convictions with regard to your investments.

And the great thing is there are options now to have your values aligned with your investments through what's called faith based investing. So that might be something for you to consider. But apart from that, I think you should just continue on with what you're doing. Does that make sense?

Yes, it does. Thank you for your opinion. I greatly appreciate that. Well, thank you for calling, Brenda.

God bless you. Well, folks, we're going to head to a break, but let me remind you, we're out of the studio today. Our team is not here, so don't call in, but much more to come just around the corner on Faith and Finance Live. Stick around. This is Faith and Finance Live with Rob West. Hey, if you hear a phone number mentioned today, please ignore that number and don't call us, because today's broadcast was previously recorded. But we think the upcoming information will help you and make you a wise steward of what God's given you.

So please stay tuned. This is real life where we deal with your financial questions, the things you're wrestling with right now in light of a biblical worldview. At the center of it is our identity in Christ, our eternal perspective, recognizing we're children of God that have been adopted into his family when we surrender our lives to Jesus and placed our trust in him for salvation through what he did on our behalf, nothing that we did, but through his free gift of his death and resurrection that paid the penalty for our sin. But at that point, then, we're charged with being faithful stewards, managers of everything God has entrusted to us while we're still here and he still has more for us to do. And that includes the financial resources which, according to Scripture, are not evil. Money is not the root of all evil, but the love of money, Bible says, is the root of all evil. And so it can trip us up on that journey if we don't find our identity in him, if we don't seek first the kingdom. Remember the parable of the sower, the things that robbed in that story from experiencing the 30, 60, 100-fold return of God's word were the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things and the cares of this world. If we get caught up in the temporal, we will miss God's best. So how do we hold God's money loosely, give generously, and save appropriately?

Well, we talk about these ideas in light of your practical financial questions each day on this program. Let's head to Louisiana. Debbie, thank you for calling.

Go ahead. My husband is 59 years old and he recently lost his job. Literally, the building caught fire and burned to the ground. He has over $300,000 in T. Rowe Price in his 401k savings fund. And we were just wondering what is the best thing to do with that at this point. He's 59, so he has like eight years to go. He's looking for another job, but nothing is yet. Okay, so he's looking for another job.

He doesn't have anything right now. Do you all have an advisor that you've worked with in the past, Debbie, either for investment management or financial planning? No, not at all. It's just T. Rowe Price. Okay. Yeah, that would be my next step is I would interview several financial advisors and hire one that can do some first of all, some planning for you just so you all can determine how much are we ultimately trying to save for that season of life where maybe we're no longer working for pay and God reassigns us to something else. You know what we would typically call retirement, although I would approach it differently than the world does. But what is your ultimate savings goal? And you know, what other aspects of your financial life do you need to take a look at?

Are you properly insured? And do you have a an estate plan in place, you know, with a will that's current and, you know, just all of the things that you need to look at in your financial life. But then the second piece of that will be managing this 300,000 because now that he's separated from that company, he can roll that 401k out to an IRA, which gives you all more control over it and removes the barrier of the investment options. You see inside that 401k, there's a limited number of investment choices.

Soon as you get to the IRA, you can invest in anything. But you all have also have to have the time and the expertise and the ability to manage that in a way that minimizes risk and maximizes the return and, you know, is handling it appropriately and considering your values as well if you want to apply your values to the investment selections that you make. So that's where an advisor I think could be really helpful. And then as soon as he gets that next job, I would immediately enroll in that 401k and start, you know, contributing through salary deferral as much as he can. So you all can build up, you know, as much nest egg as possible. So that, you know, when you need it, you can convert that to an income stream that would supplement Social Security. Give me your thoughts on that.

How does that sound? Yes, absolutely. I mean, we just really at this point, you know, wanted some good advice as to what to do, because, you know, it's going to be sitting there in T. Rowe Price.

And obviously, he's not contributing anymore. So we, you know, don't know, you know, how much is going to grow like that. And we just wanted the best, you know, opportunity to have some growth on that, you know, hoping that he will pick something else up and be able to, like you said, start something else.

Yeah, another 401. Yeah, that sounds good. So what I would do then, Debbie is I would head to our website unless you know of an advisor you'd like to use. I'd head to our website at faithfi.com.

That's faith fi.com. And click the button that says find a CKA that stands for certified kingdom advisor. I'd interview two or three of those folks, find the one that's the best fit. And then they can help you both with the planning as well as rolling that out to an IRA.

And then that individual could actually manage that portfolio for you in light of your goals and objectives. Okay, thank you so much. All right, listen, all the best to you all. And we'll certainly be praying that your husband finds that next job quickly. Thanks for calling today.

To Colorado. Hi, Jackie, go right ahead. Oh, yes. So great. Well, you can answer these questions for me.

Thank you so much. Yes, we have a total bond situation, total bond market, we have $185,000 in it. It operates as cash for us.

You know, I just happened to put it into there. It's lost 23,000. I still could add some stock to our portfolio. Would I be wiser to put some into the 500 index, or just leave it in the bond market?

Yeah. What do you what is the time horizon on this money? And what are your income needs from it?

I don't need it for income. It's about, you know, five years. Maybe, you know, okay. I have like 100,000 in cash somewhere else, you know. Okay, so you have 185,000 in this portfolio plus 100,000 in cash.

Is that right? Well, and then plus our other stuff. Okay. All right. And what other assets do you have? Investable assets?

About 820,000. Okay. All right. And what is that in stocks and bonds? Or what is that in? Right. That's in stocks and bonds. Okay.

And you manage all of this yourself? Yeah, we're old. We're like 72. So we did it this far. But, you know, like, I hear what you're saying. And sometimes I think about that. Yeah.

Well, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. You know, as long as you feel comfortable with that, and you know, you've been able to manage it in a way that protects it, because you all built up quite a nest egg here. So the key for this season of life is capital preservation first. And then secondly, And didn't God build it up, huh?

Yes, he did. Yeah, this all belongs to the Lord. But you all did the hard work in limiting your lifestyle and saving diligently. And now you've built up quite a nest egg here. And it sounds like you don't need it all, which is great. You may down the road, but you certainly could give it away, either now or in the future. I laugh because I thought at 55 I'd be working at McDonald's for the rest of my life. And then without any inheritance, really, God just did this, you know, through my husband getting well and being able to work. Yeah, it's kind of interesting.

Well, I love it. Yeah, you've you've applied biblical wisdom here, and you're seeing the fruit of it. I like the total bond index here. I understand you lost money last year was an unusual year for bonds just because of the massive and fast increase in the Fed funds rate.

But we're kind of near the end of that, if not at the end. And so bond prices as interest rates fall will go up. Plus, you're enjoying these higher yields. So I think with that portion of the portfolio, I would stay right there.

The only thing I would consider is if you and your husband wanted to entertain having an advisor take responsibility for this, especially as you all age, I would look for a certified kingdom advisor on our website at faithfi.com. But to your original question, I'm comfortable with you all staying right there in that total bond index. Thanks for your call. We'll be right back. Thanks for joining us today on faith and finance live here in our final segment of the broadcast today.

Let me remind you, our team is not here. So don't call in but we lined up some great questions in advance. We'll get to those in just a moment. Before we do, let me mention as we head toward our fiscal year end here, June the 30th. At faith and finance, we could absolutely use your listener support. We're a listener supported ministry. So every gift goes a long way toward helping us accomplish everything we do here at faith fi. And so if you'd consider a gift, we'd certainly be grateful. The number or the web address is faithfi.com. You can just click the button that says give you find a way to give online through the mail or over the phone. Again, every gift matters whether it's 4400 or 4000.

We could certainly use your assistance to finish our ministry your strong your gifts before June 30. mean a lot to us again, faithfi.com just click give and thanks in advance. Before we head back to the phones, Jackie had a second question that I didn't get to. But I made a note of it.

So let me address it. She says, Do I have enough to self ensure for long term health care now, long term health care is probably your biggest risk in terms of what could erode your assets. During that season of life in retirement, we know 70% of 65 year old Americans and older will need long term care for an average of two to three years. And depending on what type of care you need, it could be nine or $10,000 a month, especially if you need full time nursing home care.

And so it's obviously something that could cause you to run through your assets in a hurry. Now, in Jackie's situation, she and her husband have accumulated about a million dollars in assets by living modestly and saving diligently. They're also in their 70s.

And so she's just wondering, how do we approach this? Well, I think the combination of the fact that you have a million dollars, and what's probably most important is your age, really the the most opportune time to explore long term care insurance is between 55 and 65. It's going to be cost prohibitive in your 70s. I think at this point, just based on your age and the assets that you have, I would probably look to self insure, you could certainly go out and get some quotes and see if it fits into your budget.

But I think at this point, it is going to be cost prohibitive. Typically, we say you ought to look at getting long term care insurance. If you have assets between 250,002 million, just because over 2 million, you absolutely can self insure under 250,000, you're going to be looking at Medicaid facilities. But during you know, in that middle range there between 250 and 2 million, which is where most folks find themselves in terms of assets, you really ought to look at long term care insurance between 60 55 and 65. The key is to make sure that it fits into your budget, both today and with increases down the road, because if it's cost prohibitive, and you have to drop it, it's done you no good at that point. So I think Jackie, in your situation, I would probably just focus on self insuring, just continuing to live modestly. And if you need to use these assets, at that point, you can.

But certainly if you want to check out some premiums and see what it looks like you could do that. Thanks for calling that we appreciate it. Let's head to Texas. Esther, you've been very patient. Go right ahead.

Yes, thank you for taking my call. My question is the Lord has blessed me with two children that we adopted through the state. I am soon to be early retirement age. Ideally, I would like to retire at 62 to be able to spend more time with them as they approach their teenage years.

And I understand from Social Security that they will also get a monthly supplement. But my question is, would that be the best thing for me to retire at 62 or to continue to work till full retirement age? Yeah, well, it's really going to come down, Esther, to what your retirement budget looks like and what income sources you have. You know, keep in mind at 62 versus full retirement age, you're probably going to have a reduction of somewhere between, you know, 27 and 30% in your monthly benefit and that will be a permanent reduction locked in. So if you had a monthly benefit of 1000 at 66, you know, you'd probably be around 710 or $730 a month at 62. And so I think the first question is, what does your retirement budget look like? How much are you going to need on a monthly basis in retirement, recognizing when you get to retirement, usually folks live on 70 to 80% of their pre retirement income because they're not saving any longer, maybe they drop their life insurance, you know, the kids are off the payroll, you're not spending as much on gas and work clothes and eating out at lunch, you know, those kinds of things. And so when you put all that together, you know, you need to put a budget together that reflects what you really need each month, and then compare that to the income sources you will have Social Security and whatever else. And if you can really cover your expenses, and retire early, great, that would give you an opportunity to do what, you know, the Lord has allowed you to do.

And you've adopted these children, which is amazing. And you can obviously spend more time there. But if there's going to be a gap in terms of what your monthly need is, and what you'd be getting from Social Security and whatever else you have, then obviously, that's real. And that may cause you to want to work a bit longer. So you can see that 8% a year increase. Yes, that does make sense. And a second part of the question is, and because the children will also be getting a benefit. I've looked at that and that covers any gap, and actually will allow for some disposable income to, to start a savings for the children. If that would be, you know, the wisest decision.

Yeah. And then what about once they're, you know, old and older and out of the house? I realize your expenses would come down because you're not providing for them necessarily any longer.

But would that still give you enough at that point? You know, without their assistance? Yes, between my pension and my husband's social intention. Okay. And our house, our home will be paid off, and that that would allow us to be comfortable. Great. Yeah.

So I think that's the key. You know, I would, I would just really pray through it and decide, you know, first of all, there's the financial equation, which is really can we do this? Can we meet our obligations? It sounds like you've really thought through all of that. I love that you're going to be debt free, which is huge as you head into retirement if you can eliminate, you know, that the debt service, namely your mortgage, that that brings your monthly need significantly lower. And I love the fact that you can have more time to invest in your family.

And I think that's really exciting. So, you know, we need to look at both the financial and the non-financial side and then, you know, ask the Lord, what would you have me to do and, and make that decision. But it sounds like at least from my perspective, this all makes sense. And you've been thoughtful about, you know, whether or not it's appropriate.

I think the next step, if you wanted to go a little deeper would be you could, you know, engage a financial planner to actually help you put a plan together and just make sure that somebody has, you know, looked at all of this through kind of a professional lens and, you know, helped you to anticipate anything that you may not be considering. But apart from that, I feel like this makes sense if this is what the Lord is leading you to do. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate your time and listening through. Thank you. You're welcome, Esther. God bless you and we're excited for you and what God has in store for you in this next season. Thanks for calling today. Quickly, an email, these come to us at AskRobatFaithFi.com.

DJ writes, Hi Rob, listen to your show all the time and greatly appreciate the content. My wife and I are 30 years old with two young sons. When my wife worked full time, she had a 401k with about $15,000. Are there any options for the funds in her 401k plan to be moved to some type of college savings for our boys?

Or should I roll it over into my plan or is it best to just leave it alone? Probably the best thing would be to roll your wife's old 401k DJ into a traditional IRA. And then you could do a conversion to a Roth IRA, you know, just given your age, you could go and pay the tax now and then allow that to grow tax free, you know, until retirement.

You guys still have 35 years or so potentially until retirement, so you could get a lot of benefit out of that Roth IRA over that time period. Unfortunately, there is no way to get that money into a college fund without creating a taxable event. You would have to withdraw the funds and they'd be added to your adjusted gross income for the year. Additionally, it cannot be rolled into your retirement plans. Retirement accounts are individual, whether it's a 401k or an IRA, it has to stay in your wife's name only. So the only option you would have in terms of getting it out of the 401k without creating a taxable event would be to roll it to an IRA in her name.

And then at that point, as I said, you could do the conversion to the Roth. So I hope that helps you. This one comes from a listener in Illinois. The listener writes, I'm looking for an advisor or a state planning lawyer in Illinois.

Can you recommend someone? And if you've listened to this program for any length of time, you know, we trust the certified kingdom advisor designation. These are men and women who have met high standards and character and competence, and they've had a regulatory review and signed a code of ethics and a statement of faith. They've been trained to bring biblically wise financial advice.

And they have had a pastor and client references as well. So if you'd like to find a certified kingdom advisor in your area, you can do that on our website at faithfi.com. That's faithfi.com.

And just click Find a CKA. We appreciate you checking with us. By the way, if you'd like a question read on the air, feel free to send it along to us. You can send it to askrob at faithfi.com.

That's askrob at faithfi.com. One final reminder today, again, if you can provide some financial assistance to us between now and the end of June, we would greatly appreciate it. You can give to support our work at faithfi.com.

Just click Give. Folks, I appreciate you being along with us today, all of your calls and questions. We've covered a lot of ground today. You know, at the end of the day, I would go back to those five things that come right out of God's Word as you manage His money. Spend less than you earn, avoid debt, set some long-term goals, have some margin and give generously. Because when we recognize God owns it all, we save appropriately and give generously, we can experience the blessing that comes with it.

Hey, Faith in Finance Live is a ministry of Faithfi and Moody Radio. Thanks to my team today, Amy, Dan, Clara, and Jim. Thank you for being here as well. I hope you have a great rest of your day and come back and join us next time. We'll see you then. Bye-bye.