4%: A Rule To Be Broken?

The following program was prerecorded, so our phone lines are not open. For more than a quarter century, financial advisors have used the four percent rule for retirement withdrawals. So why change it now?

I am Rob West. Some advisors are now saying four percent may be too high, while the man who wrote the rule says it's too low. We'll weigh into the debate today, and then we have some great calls lined up.

But please don't call in today because this program is prerecorded. Glad to have you along for another edition of Faith and Finance Live, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Okay, we'll start by consulting God's Word about saving and spending, which lays down a basic principle.

Proverbs 21 20 tells us precious treasure and oil are in a wise man's dwelling, but a foolish man devours it. We certainly don't want to be foolish, so choosing the right percentage that we can withdraw from our holdings each year in retirement is important to say the least. Too little and you may not be able to meet your expenses.

Too much and you run the risk of running out of funds during retirement. Now, you might be curious about where the four percent rule came from in the first place. Way back in 1994, investment advisor Bill Bengan published an article that detailed how and why he was recommending to his clients that they only withdraw four percent a year from their assets in retirement. Bengan said he created his four percent rule based on a hypothetical investor who retired in October 1968 and was promptly hit with an extended bear market and high inflation.

In other words, a worst case scenario. And even though you might be tempted to think history is repeating itself now, Bengan believes that by tweaking asset allocation, a retiree would actually be safe withdrawing up to four point seven percent annually, as he is doing now. To be fair, he's suggesting that four point five percent would be safer until we see what inflation will do in the near future. So how did Bengan arrive at the new four point seven percent figure? Well, he says it's due to the greater gains he's seen by adding small and micro cap asset classes to his portfolio.

He says that increased volatility, but also gains, which made his four point seven percent calculation possible. Besides the benefit of increasing the rate of withdrawal in retirement, the new rule also allows the retiree to reduce asset allocation in stocks over bonds. The old four percent rule is based on a 50 to 70 percent stock allocation, which could make many retirees jittery. The new higher withdrawal rate of four point seven percent over the long haul is based on an ideal stock allocation of only 55 to 60 percent. Bengan says having less than that in equities will lower your return enough to make the four point seven percent unworkable. But having more than that will create enough volatility to also threaten your safe withdrawal rate. But not all investing experts are as optimistic as Bengan. In fact, Morningstar is now suggesting that the old four percent rule is too high a withdrawal rate for the times.

They're recommending that figure be reduced to just three point three percent. Remember that the goal is to have enough built up to last for a 30 year retirement, say from age 65 to 95. Market returns and inflation will no doubt fluctuate a great deal over that time.

But in the end, they should balance out. And whether you use three point three, four or four point seven percent as your safe withdrawal rate in retirement, they all assume that percentage of your portfolio will be enough to live on when Social Security is added to the mix. Anyone contemplating an early retirement will need a great deal more in assets or a lower withdrawal rate or both.

That certainly won't be easy. Some investment advisors suggest that maximum diversification is one way to overcome the uncertainties of bear markets and inflation. That means not just having a broad spectrum of stocks and bonds, but also having several different buckets of retirement holdings. Some might be in a 401k or traditional IRA with their tax deferred benefit. Some could also be in a Roth IRA that's funded with after tax money but allows for tax free withdrawals. Some equity holdings could be income producing, some dividend paying.

I realize that all of this can get pretty confusing. So here I'd like to make the case for having an experienced financial advisor help you with your retirement investing, whether you're already retired or you're still working. We strongly believe in the Certified Kingdom Advisor designation. With a CKA, you'll not only have an experienced advisor, but one who shares your Christian values. Go to faithfi.com and click Find a CKA. That's faithfi.com.

Click Find a CKA. This is Faith at Finance Live. And even though we're not here today and can't take your live calls, there's much more ahead on the program. So please stay tuned. Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West. Our team is away from the studio today.

We're not here, so don't call in, but we lined up some great questions in advance and we'll get to those in just a moment. First, you know, as I look at the scriptures, one of the big ideas that literally jumps off the page when you look at this area of finance in light of a biblical worldview is the idea of contentment. We should foster an attitude of contentment. And I think that's the first understanding is that it is in fact an attitude.

Matthew 633 says, But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things will be added to you. If our aim is the kingdom, then that changes our perspective. It makes it focused on the eternal, not the temporal.

And that's a game changer. Well, then from an attitude, we learn that contentment is in fact learned by the apostle. Paul said it this way. Not that I'm speaking of being in need, for I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. That's Philippians 4 11. So it's a learned behavior. It's also a choice. You know, I can choose to be content in every circumstance, rich or poor, happy or sad, easy or difficult, because as Christ followers, well, our position in Christ never changes. And I think that's an important reminder for us today.

And perhaps it could change your whole approach to your money. All right, let's get to our calls today that we've lined up for you. We'll begin in Virginia.

Mohammed, you'll be our next caller. Go ahead, sir. What is the form? S s a 561 dash u two of Social Security? Yes, sir.

My team actually looked this up when you called. I haven't memorized all of these forms quite yet. But it's actually the form you would use to appeal being turned down for Social Security benefits. Now, that the reasons that you can get a denial have a wide range, you could be denied another type of benefit such as a spousal benefit or a retirement benefit, your disability application could have been denied because you didn't work long enough, or perhaps you disagree with what you received regarding an overpayment that you contacted the Social Security Administration about. In any of those cases where you received a denial, that SSA 561 u two form is really that form that you would use to appeal that decision. And so you would ask them to reconsider their decision on a wide range of benefits related to a denial. And you should send that form to your local Social Security office. And if you have any trouble filling that out, they could assist you.

But that's the purpose of it. Thank you, sir. Thank you for your help. Okay, God bless you, Mohammed. Thanks for calling today to Texas. Hi, Jane. How can I help you?

Oh, hello. I was just wondering if you could help me. I'm about to receive which I don't know how much it is. But I'm pretty sure it's about 20 to $30,000 from my cousin's passing. And I'm also on SSI and supplemental food. And I don't want my income disturbed because I received this. How can I just gift it over to my granddaughter or the church without losing my benefits?

Yeah, it will absolutely affect your food stamp benefits because you can only have $2,000 in assets to be eligible. You absolutely can gift it and that's not going to be a concern. Are you wanting to give a portion of it away to multiple people? You mentioned, I think a family member, but then also your church, is that right? Yes, mostly I want to give it to my granddaughter.

Well, and the church also. But it's mostly my SSI, which is my medical benefits. I don't want it disturbed.

And it will disturb it. Yeah, there's the same limit for SSI on that $2,000 in assets. So it would be very easy to gift it. You would just make the gift direct to your family member and you can do that up to, this year it's $17,000 without even notifying the IRS. Even if you went beyond that, you wouldn't have any taxes due on that. There's not a gift tax there. That would just go against your lifetime exclusion. With a portion that you want to give to the church, you could just go ahead and make that gift directly as soon as you receive it. Now, this is not a taxable distribution that you're getting, this inheritance. There is no taxes due, but you would be able to itemize against any taxes that you're paying.

Now, because of your financial situation, you really probably are paying a whole lot of taxes, so it may not benefit you. But that would get the assets out of your name as you give up control to them by making that gift to a charity or your family member. Oh, I appreciate that a lot. Thank you. Okay, Jane, listen, so sorry to hear about your family member passing. I know this will be a blessing to both your church and to your family, and if we can assist you further along the way, let us know.

Thanks for calling today. Let's take a couple of emails. We receive emails all the time from our listeners at AskRob at FaithFi.com.

If you have a question you'd like considered to be read on the air, send it along to us. Again, AskRob at FaithFi.com. Johnny wrote to us and said, I'm retiring after 36 years at my job. When I set up my retirement funding, how do I set up my tithe?

I've never retired before. And I appreciate, Johnny, that question so much. Clearly, you want to honor the Lord in this season of life as you have in the past. You know, clearly if you've tithed on contributions going into your retirement account, you would only tithe on your earnings coming out. The challenge is calculating that can be quite difficult. You know, if you think about Social Security, for instance, there's the portion that you put in, there's the portion that your employer put in, and then there's the growth of that as well. With retirement accounts, there's your portion, there's any matching portion that didn't come from you, and therefore you didn't tithe on it because it was a match from your employer. And then there's the gain, which would have not been tithed on either. So the way I would perhaps think and pray about simplifying this is just tithe on all the money coming out when you take a distribution. It's an easy way to increase your generosity toward the Lord and demonstrate your trust in Him, your gratefulness for His provision. And so I think if we're going to apply the Old Testament principle of the tithe here, a tenth of your increase, I wouldn't try to calculate that.

It would be very difficult. I'd probably just tithe on the whole thing, and I know that will honor the Lord. So ultimately that's between you and the Lord.

This is not about checking a box or hitting a specific number. Remember, God doesn't need our money. He wants our hearts. And I think when we give, it's really an opportunity to loosen our grip and demonstrate that we're submitting ourselves to God's purposes, His ultimate control, recognizing His provision is complete and we don't rely on anyone else for our provision.

It's God that's our provider. And we demonstrate that through the act of giving. And it's also a way to participate in God's activity. It's an invitation into a grander story, if you will, because in our giving, we say it's more than just me.

It's an opportunity to be a part of what God is doing, which is much bigger than I am. And so you'll experience a lot of joy and satisfaction and contentment as you continue to give, perhaps even at a higher level in this season of life. Johnny, thanks for writing to us today.

I hope that was an encouragement to you. Well, folks, before we head to this break, let me remind you, if you haven't checked out our new website at faithfi.com, that's faithfi.com, I'd love for you to do that. You'll find the best content and biblical finance there for you to grow in your understanding of managing money God's way. You'll find our community and the money management system.

It's all there at faithfi.com. Now, again, a reminder, we're not here today, but more of your questions that we lined up after the break. Delighted to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West. Hey, we're away from the studio today. That's right.

Our team is taking some time off, so don't call in. But we lined up some great questions in advance. We'll get to those in a moment. You know, this is the program where we deal with all of your financial questions. And as we think about managing God's money, it really can seem very complex at times. We have so many decisions and choices to make, and yet we can simplify our financial lives into four buckets, if you will. There's the money we live on, the money we give, the money we owe for debt and taxes, and then the money we grow.

That's our savings and investments. So live, give, owe, and grow. And what we probably don't think about often enough is this largest area of expense in our financial lives is the live, the lifestyle bucket, if you will. And it's the biggest barrier to contentment and long-term financial security. But really, living within our means, keeping this live bucket in check is the key to every financial success.

Here's the challenge, though. Throughout our lives, as God blesses us and provides and perhaps we see income increase over time, what I've experienced is that our level of spending will always rise to our level of income unless we protest to the contrary, unless we do something about it. The challenge is the Bible doesn't define the appropriate lifestyle for the Christian.

So we have to ask the Lord on our knees, what's the right lifestyle for me or for us? And at a minimum, we need to live within God's provision. And this comes by spending less than we earn. We can't get caught in the comparison trap, which is a contentment killer.

We can't buy into the message that we've got to keep up with the Joneses. We've got to accept what God has provided. Doesn't mean we can't try to improve that and work harder and cut expenses and perhaps try to seek additional income over time.

We absolutely can do that. But as God provides, we need to be willing to live within that. And our ability to do so is so key in being able to fund our long-term goals that align with our values, things like increasing our giving or saving for the future.

Maybe it's paying down debt or finally getting that emergency fund fully funded. Well, the only way we can do that is through a spending plan, having a budget that gives every dollar a name so we can control the flow of money in and out. Well, our team spent several years and continues to this day with world-class developers building the FaithFi app. And in there is our digital envelope system.

And if it would help you in managing your budget and your spending plan, perhaps you should check it out. Just head to our website, faithfi.com. That's faithfi.com.

And you can click on the app tab and read all about it. Hey, before we head back to the phones, I want to answer one of your emails. By the way, we receive these emails all the time and ask Rob at faithfi.com. Feel free to send your question along to be read on the air. Again, ask Rob at faithfi.com. That's faithfi.com. This one comes to us from Christie.

She writes, Hi, Rob, I love listening to your show. I'm in my 20s and I'm saving up for a house. I'm not sure about the best way to invest my current savings. Should I buy a CD or invest in the stock market? I'd appreciate any advice.

Thanks so much. You know, I think Christie, the key here is your time horizon. So if you're planning on buying this house, let's say in less than five years, then I don't want you investing in the stock market.

We really need a five plus year time horizon. So I love that you're saving and I realize it may take some time but you're likely going to want to save that in a high yield savings account. If you have some money already put aside, you could lock it up in a 15 or 18 month CD and get a little bit more interest but you don't want to invest it because the key is to have that money available when you're ready to make the purchase. The problem with investing in the stock market is those stocks may be down at the time. We just don't know what would be going on at that moment and you may have to sell them at a loss. By the way, make your savings target 20% for a down payment at a minimum and then let's make sure that mortgage payment, including taxes and insurance, is no more than 25% of your take home pay. That's going to ensure that you have enough left for everything else. But you can do this, stay at it, save diligently and you will be ready to make that purchase in no time. And again, don't buy too much house even though these prices are still pretty high. Alright, let's go back to the calls we've lined up for today. Let's go to Columbus. Bill, you're next on the program, sir.

How can I help? Yes, well my question is, I'm maxing out a 457 plan like I'm still working and I'm maxing out my 457 plan, but I'm wondering am I better off to not max out that and to pay off debt like property and stuff like that, house payments? Yeah, it's a great question and you know this decision between paying down debt and saving for the future is often challenging because both, obviously very productive uses of money, both clearly supported in Scripture. So we've got competing priorities and I think the question is how do we kind of balance our desire to ultimately be debt free with also the desire to save for the future and take advantage of key compounding years, also not missing out on any free money that would come through matching and I think we can find perhaps a good solution moving forward.

But a few questions for you, Bill. What do you have in the way of debt? Just kind of run through the various categories of debt and roughly what you owe. Well, I've got a farm that I've pulled like equity loans out against it to buy other properties and I'm guessing that debt is total everything is probably about $320,000. All right, $320,000 and that's a home equity line of credit?

Yep. And that's against your... It's not really a home equity, it's a second mortgage against a farm property I own. Oh, against a farm property. I paid off the farm, I paid off the farm and then I had all the equity in it so I bought other properties with the equity.

Got it, got it. And what do you think that farm is worth? About a million. Okay, so you've got about 70% equity in that, give or take. All right, what else do you owe?

I have a truck I owe about $15,000 on probably. Okay. And that's it. And that's it, great. All right, and then what percent are you putting toward your long term savings?

Do you know? Well, I was just kind of doing buying these properties. I'm buying a storage unit right now that developed more income, which is part of the equity load. Okay, all right.

But then you've also got your deferred comp as well. Let's do this. That was helpful background. We're going to take a quick break. If you can hold the line, I'll weigh in with my thoughts just around the corner. We'll be right back with you, Bill, and stay tuned. More to come on Faith and Finance. Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live.

Again, we're not here today. Our team is away from the studio, so don't call in, but we've got some great questions coming up. As we turn our attention back to the phones, we were talking to Bill just before the break. He's got a farm worth about $1 million. He's got some debt on that, about $320,000 that he's used to buy other properties. He's got a truck loan. That's about it in the way of debt and wondering how to balance paying all that off against saving in his deferred comp. Bill, how much are you putting into that deferred comp right now?

I think the maximum was like $29,000 a year. Yeah, so that's great. Obviously, the farm is cash flowing such that that note is not a problem, right? Servicing that debt? No, I rent it to another farm. I don't actually farm the ground itself.

I rent it. I get like $16,000 a year for that. Yeah, okay. So it's enough to service the debt that you have on it?

I believe so, yeah. So I like this plan because here's the thing. You've got multiple asset classes going. You're building stocks and bonds for your future, which is a more passive investment. You've got real estate with the farmland and if that activity is cash flowing and paying that loan, which has allowed you to buy additional property, that's great. If I was going to prioritize anything, it might be paying off that truck just because that's probably a little higher interest rate and that's going to reduce or eliminate probably one of your larger monthly expenses from your budget, which would free up even more that you could put toward paying down the debt. But I think maxing out that deferred comp alongside the other things that you're doing for the next seven years or however long between now and retirement, you may be planning to work a good bit longer than that even, is going to give you quite a portfolio here, Bill. So if it were me, again, if the debt service is covered through the rental on the farm, I'd probably just continue to allow them to pay that off for you, try to pay off that truck as quick as you can, but I would continue maxing out that deferred comp. This sounds like a great plan to me. Okay, that's what I was thinking about just trying to free up more monthly cash flow. Yeah. Yeah.

And I think getting that truck knocked out would do just that and give you even more margin. We appreciate you checking in with us, sir. All the best to you. God bless you.

To Alabama. Hey, John, thanks for calling, sir. Go ahead. Yes, sir. How you doing? Doing great. You doing well? Yes, sir. It's a wonderful day to be living, but I'm approaching 68 years old. I've been working now shift work for about 40, 43 to 44 years. Okay. I like my job, but I made a point I'd like to go home, but I've got some debt.

I just don't know. I've never, I've never had the privilege to quit a job and not work, so don't know quite how to handle that. I've got some debt. I've got a 401k at my job, which they match 5%, and I also put 25% of my pay in it each cycle. I owe about maybe $8,000 on a Kubota tractor I have on some property that I keep push hauls and stuff. And I probably have about another $100,000 roughly in debt on a little lake house that I built.

Okay. And I have no other debt. So, uh, plus I'm also drawing full social security, which my wife, me receive around $4,500 a month. Social security, not counting my job that I'm working full time at.

So last, last year I made roughly, uh, uh, before knit, uh, made a little over 125,000 on my job. So I don't know. And I, and I have a daughter that tried to help step in. She's struggling. So the reason I stayed another year is because she, she's struggling and I, I can't afford what I've got income.

That's not a problem to help her. I step out and I'm on a fixed income, which, uh, got mortgage. Stanley handles, uh, probably over 600,000 of my money right now.

I have roughly infidelity where I'm at, which, where it goes from my job with my mind and the matching, I have roughly 250, a little better in it. So that's kind of where I stand as far as financial and owing people. So what do you do with yourself when you retire worship and do what I can around church, but I've never been called anything extravagant, I guess you'd say, but what do you do with yourself?

Do I keep working or do I retire? Well, I think the key is that God created us to be workers, right? So we were, uh, Adam was a worker before the fall.

He had a job to do. And I think, you know, when we work toward an audience of one, realizing that God is who we're serving and then we can serve him through our work. And, uh, we realized that we have great purpose and significance, no matter our work, doesn't matter what our job is, is we do it unto the Lord. We're accomplishing our purposes and we have an incredible opportunity to be the hands and feet of Jesus in the marketplace, no matter what our job is. And so given that, and we see that studies reinforce and give evidence to God's handiwork is that I think the extent to which we stay productive, we see that, uh, science tells us we don't have a cognitive decline quite as quickly and our bodies respond well. I think it gives us purpose and meaning in service to the Lord, but that doesn't mean you have to stay at your current job. You know, your service to the Lord could change. So it's this idea of retiring to something and not from something, because I think the moment we retire from something and we say, okay, I'm done, and now I'm just going to kind of sit on the front porch and, you know, enjoy life. There's nothing wrong with relaxing and taking it easy and enjoying some quality time with family, maybe traveling a bit more. But I think again, we were created to be productive, to take God's creation and order it and improve it.

And that's just, uh, God's design in us. And so I think you need to give a good bit of thought to, yes, you've had an incredible career. Uh, yeah, you've been diligent and saved and built up your net worth and your assets. It sounds like between your social security and your 401k and the portfolio that's being managed by Morgan Stanley right now, and this little bit of debt you have, uh, you know, you can fund your living expenses for the rest of your life. I think the bigger question is, what does God have for you in this next season? And if it's not working at the place you're at right now, which you've already said, brings you a lot of fulfillment and enjoyment, then what is it? And let's figure that out so that you have something to retire to.

So God can continue to use you in this next season of life when you have the most wisdom and experience to bring to the table for his service. Have you given some thought to what you might do at that point? Is it, you know, doing something part time? Is it volunteering?

And, you know, what does, do you think that looks like as you consider this next chapter? Well, sir, I, uh, I had told the wife, I said, I don't want to work, uh, and I don't know who's going to hire a 68 year old man, but, uh, I don't. And I said, who's going to hire a man that doesn't want to work weekends anymore. Don't want to work nights anymore. Don't want to work holidays. And I said, I'd like to have a job, uh, three days a week, like Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday.

I don't, I don't know if you go there and get a job like that. Uh, be honest with you. One other question I'd like to ask you.

Yes, sir. The debt ratio. I owe about 8,000 on this little tractor that happens. Would you just retire all that debt, uh, before you retired? Uh, and I'm thinking about maybe at the end of this year, if I go, I have to go by the end of the year or I fall into next year. And the way my retirement is set up, I'm set to get close to a half million, uh, uh, lump sum. If I go, I can take an annuity now. Yes. But, uh, I take a lump sum.

So I'm inclined to take the lump sum. Yeah. So based on that, would you retire all the debt you got? Yeah. Would you just, my interest rate on what I got is 2.5% on this little loan that I bought this little house on.

Yeah. You know, I would, uh, I would, you know, absolutely retire that small debt. I think the bigger debt you could take your time on, uh, and just try to have that paid off maybe by retirement.

So I think, you know, you could sync it up for whatever that date is. Stay out of the line. We'll finish up off the air. We'll be right back on faith and finance. Thanks for your call.

John. Hey, great to have you with us today on faith and finance live. I'm Rob West, your host.

Our team is away from the studio today, so don't call in, but coming up a little later, we'll have more of your questions right here on the program. Hey, let me take a moment to mention the faith fi app. We'd love for you to download it. Just head to your app store wherever you download apps and search for faith.

Fine. That's faith fi. You can manage your money. You can access the best content in biblical finance, podcasts, articles, and videos. You can also participate in our faith fi community where you can post questions and get answers from others on their stewardship journey. You'll find it in your app store. Just search for faith fire. If it's easier, head to our website at faith fi.com.

That's faith fi.com and you'll see the app right there on the home page. Just before the break, we were talking to John. I had a chance to finish up with him off the air and where we landed was John's going to be thinking about what God has for him in this next season of life. He's going to go ahead and knock out that small debt of 8,000, but that a hundred thousand that he's got for his lake home in debt. He's just going to continue to service that out of current cashflow rather than pulling that money out of his investment accounts, which are down right now.

The interest rates below 3%, so it's very low and he's got excess cashflow, so he's just going to try to accelerate that debt payoff, not by pulling money out, but by just applying additional principal reduction. John, thanks for checking in with us today. God bless you, sir.

To Florida we go. Mitch, thanks for calling. Go ahead. Hi. My daughter just got accepted to the Naval Academy, which is a really, really big deal. Congratulations. Yeah, that's incredible.

Well, it's pretty great. I have two older children and one's enlisted in the Coast Guard and the other one is actually in the Army, so we have quite the background, but yeah, my daughter. So anyway, the question is, we had saved, we have a 529 plan, which she's the beneficiary of, and about $70,000 or so in it. And I wanted to be able to pull that out when she is at the Naval Academy and it's technically you don't pay to go there, but if for whatever reason she dropped out at some point, she would be, she would owe them back for the time she was there. Sure, sure. So I wanted to withdraw the money out, but everywhere I've kind of asked, nobody kind of knows how to deal with this because it's not, the money coming out wouldn't go directly toward any of her college expenses. Yeah.

Well, here's the thing that you may want to look into. There are exceptions to be able to pull this money out without the 10% penalty for non-qualified withdrawals. And that includes when you get a scholarship, but it also includes when you attend a US military academy. So she should be able to get that money out without the penalty. Now you're still going to have to pay income tax on the earnings, but you would, you would not have to pay that penalty. Were you aware of that exclusion?

I was aware. I just didn't know kind of the logistics of how to do it. Like I can go and withdraw money out of that account today, like the way it's set up online. So I wouldn't feel the tax thing until a year from now when I'm filing my, you know, 2022 taxes, how would I classify that withdraw or yeah, yeah, yeah.

How do I land the plane? Sure. Yeah. Do you use a tax preparer or do you do your own taxes? I do my own. Okay.

Yeah. So you would, it would show as a distribution and then you'd be able to exclude that by just demonstrating that you have a, basically a qualified exclusion for not paying that penalty. And you know, you'd have the ability to prove that in this case it's not a scholarship, it happens to be attending a US military academy. But that would be an exemption and you, you would be able to, to let them know that as a part of filing the return. So that's not going to be an issue. I think the key is, are there any qualified expenses that you might want to use this for while she's there?

Because you know, that way you wouldn't even have, you know, any of the gains to pay taxes on, that money could come out tax free. Are there any expenses that she would incur that do you think would fall under qualified expenses? From what I can tell, I don't believe so because while she's there, she also gets like a stipend per year. And out of that they pay for their uniforms, their laptop, all other miscellaneous type of stuff.

Okay, very good. Yeah. So if she doesn't need it, then I think the key is to get it out. I mean, the good news is the value of that education is several hundred thousand dollars. So that's gonna, you know, offset any non-qualified withdrawals from that 529. And that's an amazing benefit that she's receiving.

And so I think the key is, you know, you have the ability to pull that out and you'll just pay the tax on it, on the growth like you would have if you would have been invested in a taxable account. But you won't get hit with that penalty because she gets this exclusion. So man, this is an incredible blessing that she's received and tell her congratulations for us. Okay. I will. Thank you.

So one final thing. Yeah, sure. Would the smartest way be to take it out incrementally, like a quarter of it each year she's there for the four years rather than kind of all at once and kind of referring that? I would, especially if it's been invested in stocks and it's down and, you know, that would give this the ability to kind of weather as much of the recession as possible while it's still invested and has the ability to regain any ground that it's lost. And you're spreading that tax bite, if you will, over four years for any of the gains you've had depending upon how it's performed.

So I would absolutely split it up and take it out over time. Okay. All right. Well, great.

Thank you so much. We're all super excited. I'm sure you are. Congratulations. That's awesome. I'm sure you're a proud dad. Well, thanks for calling today, sir. God bless you.

To Texas we go. Hey, Faye, how can I help you? Yes. I was just wondering if you know of any resources of companies that are indicating they don't require the COVID shot for employment because I'm friends and myself included in looking for, I'm looking for a part-time job. And what I'm finding is that you go through the whole thing, you know, the waste of time of applying, and then you go to the interview and then they tell you, and so I'm not going to get the shot. So I, I wondered if there was, you know, of any, any, uh, resource that would list that and they would try to Google it.

Then you just get led into a list or articles about, um, you know, those, uh, that non-vaxxers or whatever they call people that don't want to get the shot. So sure. I don't know.

Yeah. You know, let's do this, Faye. I don't know right off hand the best resource, but I'll have my team get your information and we'll look into that.

I know the team at American Family Association has a, just a plethora of resources, uh, that they, um, can make available and I suspect they would have one that would be right up the alley of what you're looking for here, but we'll do a little digging on that and, um, get back to you and let you know, um, you know, what the best resource is for you because I certainly understand what you're looking for and I want to make sure we get you pointed in the right direction. So you stay on the line, we'll get your information and, and reach back out to you. Does that sound good? All right. Yeah. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you, Faye.

We appreciate you calling today very much. Well, folks, we've covered a lot of ground today. You know, as we think about managing money God's way, uh, the key is that we need to first, I think, recognize that God owns it all and that sounds simple and yet it's a profound idea because when we recognize God's ownership and the Bible is very clear, Psalm 24 one, the earth is the Lord's and everything in it, then it allows us to put everything in its proper context. We become stewards or managers that reflect the heart of the master and the management of the master's resources, but our money now becomes a tool to accomplish God's purposes. It's not an end, it's a means to an end and it's not the meaning of life, but it can add meaning to our lives as we see it as really a tool to not only provide for our families, which is biblical, but perhaps to this bigger idea of being invited into a story that's much bigger than us and that's that God's grand generosity adventure. You know, generosity just explodes off of every page.

That's really what the Bible is. It's a generosity story and it can be best summed up in those nine words for God so loved the world he gave. And so as image bearers of Christ, of God himself, we have the ability to be most like him, I believe, when we're giving and when we hold his provision loosely. And that's what we want to do each day on this program is take the opportunity to say, God, how can we reflect your handiwork and majesty and glorify you through the use of your resources? Because when you own it all and you do now, every spending decision becomes a spiritual decision.

And here's the reality, folks. When we take a step back and we look at how we're allocating God's money, what we realize is that we're telling a story about what's most important to us in the way we allocate God's money. The late Larry Burkett used to say this, he would say, the way we handle money is actually the clearest indicator into what's going on in our lives spiritually.

Now, for some of us, that stops us in our tracks and we say, oh, I don't like the sound of that. And yet it's an opportunity for each of us to say, regardless of the mistakes we've made in the past or the decisions we've made in our financial life, from this point forward, I want to be found faithful. What is faithfulness?

It's obedience in the same direction over a long period of time. And when it comes to our money, we have an opportunity to go to God's word, to renew our minds, to get into the scriptures and see what he has for us in those 2350 verses and those parables, more than half of them that deal with money. And we can see the heart of God and how we should be rich toward God and handle money in such a way that it's evident that God is our treasure and not our money. You remember in Mark four in the parable of the sower that Jesus, when he was explaining to the disciples, what choked out the word from bearing a 30, 60, a hundred fold return.

He said it was the deceitfulness of riches and the cares of this world and the desires for other things. Let's not let that be true about us in the way we handle God's money. Let's hold it loosely.

Let's give it generously and let's use it to honor the King of Kings. And let's do that together on this program each day. Thanks for being along with us today.

Hey, Faith in Finance Live is a ministry of FaithFi and Moody Radio. Thanks to my team today and we'll see you tomorrow. Come back and join us then. Bye-bye.