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Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown
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June 22, 2016 4:20 pm

Frank Turek Guest Hosts

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown

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June 22, 2016 4:20 pm

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Welcome to the line of fire likes my guest host Dr. Frank Derek, the line of fire with your host activist all the international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire valves like always 866-34-TRUTH that's 866-34-TRUTH your again is Dr. Michael Brown, ladies and gentlemen, Frank Derek with you been a guest for Dr. Michael Brown several times. As you know Dr. Brown is in Australia right now. It's my privilege to join you today and I want to talk about a new atheist but new atheist who seemed to stand out from all the others and you remember the term new atheist means atheist who arose after 9/11, who got a lot of attention in the media. People like Richard Dawkins.

People like Daniel Dennett like Sam Harris and the one I want to talk about in this hour.

He seemed to stand out from the others that he was an atheist, whom some Christians developed a great affection for including my guess, this hour the atheist of which I'm speaking is the late Christopher Hitchens are probably the most articulate of all the atheists tragically died about 4 1/2 years ago and my friend Larry Taunton has written a new book called the faith of Christopher Hitchens, the restless soul of the world's most notorious atheist now.

Who was this man, Christopher Hitchens, really. He was definitely the most eloquent of the atheist had the opportunity to bathe him a couple times and so did my guess Larry taught. In fact, you can see the debates I had with Christopher on her website cross-examined.org that's cross examined with a D on the end of it.org did he have did Christopher have doubts about atheism. What was he like privately what what did he think of evangelical Christians whom he debated about of liberal Christians. He debated but did he have any belief in anything that was transcended, did he happen to convert on his deathbed. That is a question everybody wants to know and my friend Larry Taunton deals with all that because he struck up an amazing friendship with Christopher Hitchens and the book the faith of Christopher Hitchens is a fabulous book just came out a few months ago. I want you to know about it and I want you to check it out even if you've never heard of Christopher Hitchens, you get a lot out of this book and Larry is on the phone with me right now all the way from France.

Larry, thanks for being on the live fire. How are you crying I am great so you're in France right now my correct about that, I am traveling in Europe researching my next book. Well, you did a great job on this book.

I had you on my program a month or two ago about it and I thought would have the opportunity to fill in for Dr. Brown here that I have you on this program because the book is fabulous even if you're listening right now friends you even know Christopher Hitchens was by Juergen will enjoy this book. I think probably most of you listening to Dr. Brown do know who Christopher was and Larry you somehow struck up a friendship with Christopher for the past few years of his life, and how did you wind up meeting him and how did this evolve into a friendship so quickly crying baby, you work baiting of your out that the law where it created something of transatlantic firestorm.

Yeah exactly that. I never but it everyone about your interview. If you can call it that the hardball to Eric but back on a piece of the Wall Street Journal and I seem to have got many of your father, your butt all of the day that Christopher was somebody that I that you did thousand and I get it very.

It was through debate that that we had organized that I met him at the international possible adverse Larry this is a short segment hang out really come right back. You can tell us about a little longer segment right after this on fracture you listening the line of fire and my names Frederick Sony for Dr. Michael Brown were just back a couple minutes don't go away.

The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown line of fire now going 866-34-TRUTH your again is Dr. Michael Brown is Dr. Frank Derek actually Michael Brown on assignment in Australia. He will be back again next week, but I am subbing for Dr. Brennan. I'm talking to the great Larry Taunton who has written a brand-new book called the faith of Christopher Hitchens.

He's of the fixed point foundation. You could look Larry up online. Also, Larry Taunton.com and Larry's calling all the way from France to discuss his new book the faith of Christopher Hitchens now. Sorry Larry, that was a quick break on the line of fire. We get in and out of breaks quickly here, so go back how to give me Christopher Hitchens and how did this friendship you got going on, we were doing it for international board. This particular debate I was I would be organizer John Warrick like merit and are your audience may be familiar with, and I didn't expect to like her and I was pretty sure that would not like New York I Christopher was the Molotov cocktail popping eight years. Do you know the impression was that he didn't like Christian you like any religious people all in Australia.I'll give you warm. I enjoyed our conversation with men over the course of the next several years. I got no as a result of thought.

Yet other debate we were doing all that I truly a road trip together, where we studied the gospel of John, among other things, that the yard I found the kitchen was was a different man. Allstate was on it. Yes, and I found that a little bit as well. In fact, you remarked that after the debate you had with him and this is after he knew he had terminal cancer was probably one of the last public speaking events.

He he participated in.

I remember reading in the book again.

The book is called faith.

Christopher Hitchens by Larry Taunton. He's my guest today.

Larry said something like a creek me from wrong. He said something like, I think we put on a good show was that really more about showmanship when he did, these debates are to keep you think he really believed in what he was saying why I don't mean to me, it was great, but Christopher was, you know you want children or something of the actor about it partially why you presentation and debate what good is what Christopher understood the debate was more than just simply rattling all you want to call tracks or something along those lines.

It was it was the presentation.

It was the English accent, it was I was the manner which it was delivered he knew all the thing Christopher like for the debate.

Could be to root through could be something that audience would really enjoy coming off of of of the state.

On one occasion he was your I think they like but I think it was a good show and that that was the way he thought about the kind of thing I wasn't satisfied) 20 debated out sharp than what your audience could watch online. You know he really annihilated sharp than the day, but Christopher didn't come away from that. I don't think I'm particularly pleased by that I do. He preferred the debate have have been more lively and give up something really got the idea, you know, I noticed and I think you said this in the book as well that if you just listen to Christopher you would say well he he's well worth listening to.

And G. He seems to be doing pretty well in this debate. But if you just read the transcript of his debates, you get a completely different picture.

Why is that, well, you know, to refer to a boy in one of your debate you reference for Medtronic where you were, quite rightly, you're going in on a contradiction in his own logic on one end and on the other said that he believed believable and we started pushing on everything where you will come from equip religion and the love that it was scored points for him to slip an audience but in reality… Actually an argument. And so when you you talk Christopher Hitchens and just read you read his debates rather than simply watch them. You got a very different question in the same way you might add that way you know people have very different question watching the Kennedy Nixon listening to it while Christopher when you removed the delivery when you remove the book the wonderful euro accident baritone I you got a very different impression of how the you mentioned in the book over and over again.

This consistent theme about Christopher that he was a man who kept two sets of books.

Explain what you mean now that well. It's funny prank or something that people who felt under on like a monologue on that and not in saying that that I was going on at the audit. I'm not going to thought indeed I didn't.

I wasn't myself. The one who invented the metaphor Christopher use this metaphor in referring to him without any use of it like frequently in his memoir. It's 22. What you meant by that was the public that there was a private medical and a result of that was that a Christopher frequently was if he referred to himself as a by cell.

Others have spoken of the Horwitz Rota, a brilliant ethical between Christopher because Christopher was this man was so many internal contradictions, but does that mean you would've thought it maybe was given thing in and he was wrestling with a lot of issues. More on some of the other.

You and I might mention yes IT said in an interview. I think after one of his debates with Doug Wilson.

He was asked what's the best argument against your view and he thought the fine-tuning argument of the universe wasn't the at least admitted that and that you also write Larry in the book that you say that the fanatic is always concealing a secret doubt what you mean by that. Well, from thinker trailer by meeting. What I mean by that is that frequently those individuals who are part protesting the louder of their loyalty often aren't you feeling something of the Baldor or something of their divided felt in my part of the country you excited and declared that he you know he was. It was was not interested in the Alabama job when he was that the Miami Dolphins will also delete the support and I think that the Christopher had doubt now. This is been taken by some to mean that I'm suggesting that Christopher Hitchens was, you know what the close to receiving Jesus Christ. I don't know that, you know I I not quite sure what Christopher would've converted to but I do believe the Christopher was contemplating major edits. If I may put it that way towards the end. Why the reason is because I'm Christopher Christopher got the benefit of something that most of us will not get that is, he knew that he was death that often comes rapidly unexpectedly.

Christopher's case, he knew that he was gone and it gave him point your time on roughly 18 months to think through what he believed in why he believed that I think I am the light of life discovery that he was Jewish. On his mother's side was rather sick for him and this was something that he was thinking about, I also think the Christopher new, loving, looking at the public record about my book lays out evidentially many of the things that Christopher was painting publicly. That would suggest that he was thinking through quite a lot and that he recognized eight years of in and of itself wasn't a belief system.

My guess is Larry Taunton. The book is called the say thing, Christopher Hitchens, the restless soul of the world's most notorious atheist Larry Alex Taunton is the author and when we come back from the break here in just a couple minutes. When I asked Larry a little bit about the memorial service for Christopher what was said there and what the theme of the service was and how that reflected Christopher's own life and what we can learn about it as Christians and believers. 10.

Christopher also had a brother has a brother by living with Peter Hitchens, whom Christopher debated because both Peter and Christopher renounce Christianity early on in life. But Peter came back and is now a Christian. And so will get some insights on what Peter thought of Christopher, particularly with regard to Christopher's book God is not great how religion poisons everything.

So stay tuned, because again my guest is Larry Taunton. The book the faith of Christopher Hitchens, Frank Turek, filling in for the great Dr. Michael Brown will be back next Tuesday so don't go away will be back in just two minutes. Hey this is Michael Brown.

I want to invite you to join me for our second ever trip to Israel. February 25 through March 6, 2017 this is a great opportunity. I get to interact with you are radio listening audience. Our ministry partners as we experience the land of Israel together and it will be a life-changing. We've got great price on the trip. And if you're one of our monthly supporters or torchbearers are eligible to receive a special discount for this once-in-a-lifetime experience.

Space is limited.

Accepting applications on a first-come first-served basis. For more information on the trip to secure your spot, go to asked Dr. Brown.org. Click on the Israel manner or call our office at seven 047-8237 line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of poor cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown Dr. Frank Turek with your cross-examined.org, co-author of. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist in the new books dealing God why atheist need God to make their case. My guest today is Larry Taunton who's written a fabulous book that I think everyone will enjoy, enjoy and learn from. It's called the faith of Christopher Hitchens, the restless soul of the world's most notorious atheist Larry is calling in from France. He doubles or splits his time between ministry in France and also in Birmingham Alabama. The fixed point foundation. You can look that up. Larry was the gentleman who brought together Richard Dawkins and John Lennix for two fabulous debates that you can get it fixed point foundation for fixed point.org said that what what what the actual website.

Larry Larry Taunton God called Larry Alex Taunton what is fixed point was in there somewhere at some point but anyway it was Barbara Bonnie here I am. You will boil a lovely evening here in southern Europe and the I decide to do I update my iPhone before I call you know taking way longer modestly panic. I will call your show yet here we are all right. Well, it's amazing. I told you it was a God. Larry okay, now you. Here's what happened in my relation with Christopher was pretty much just onstage a little bit email back and forth and I remember the day after Thanksgiving 2011 I emailed Christopher because I knew he was suffering with cancer and I buy. I told him I knew people at Sloan-Kettering in New York, a fabulous a cancer hospital. Can I connect them with the right people and he does email me back and said thank you.

I'd like to renew our debates and I thought well maybe he's recovering Cytomel the back as it would you like me to set something up and he said no, not quite ready and 2 1/2 weeks later I learned he had died and and then in your book. A few months after that you go to his memorial service and you describe it in detail in the book. What was the theme of the of the service in your opinion, Larry the portal server was was remarkable 25 or 30 spokesmen and all, each taking roughly 3 minutes to read something that Christopher Hitchens consulted written and the other memorial service was was a celebration of you know that the Christopher kitchen they all knew and loved who was the fear of the militant a few of the radical left winger and it did have a kind of sort of theme that was seeking to somehow kind of resurrected, you will like sort of spiritual effect, or spiritualism and it was it was in the midst of that they were remembering Christopher kitchen is most what you think they'll and it struck me as very interesting.

It seemed I think you mentioned one point in the book. It was almost as if the service was centered around rebellion and seems like it it it seems like in my experience anyway.

Now with all atheist, but with many Larry, that's the common theme. It's all rebellion it's I ended both my debates with Christopher saying you can. Some of Christopher Hitchens position in one sentence, there is no God. And I hate him. I mean it was if it was if he was mad at God didn't did you sense that in in in your interaction with him which was much more extensive than mine on on no I only debated publicly want right debate was pretty friendly. I you you I didn't give in that particular public, Dr. got quite so much. But I will say that I did certainly in many other debate that you did certainly writing. God is not great.

That sort of thing. Is that what is what comes through like you. You often come away with this feeling that it isn't so much that they don't believe in God. It is rather that I don't want you an exact Peter Peter Hitchens, Christopher's brother, you had some interaction with this well made a very interesting observation.

I heard an interview not long ago and might've been in your book to Larry.

I can't recall but Krista Peter said they Christopher's book should not be called God is not great.

It ought to be called man is not great because it's all about the evil men have done and Christopher was consistent on this point. Larry was he he thought man was inherently evil. Did me a rather unique and intriguing about I Richard Dawkins home from years ago I was born basically good or evil. Richard rejected the question you rejected the notion of good and evil is artificial construct as you thought, and I asked similar questions about of other Christopher kitchen when I Christopher Frank. I didn't use the word evil that I was sure that he would he would reject it or talk it out of this was early on when I was first getting to know Christopher and I look for basically good or bad is unquestionably a bill and that really surprised me because I was quite certain I would get another kind of reaction from him, something similar to dog.

But instead you know you believe that man was evil and I think this has a lot to be with his own personal experience, meaning Christopher wasn't an ivory tower academic.

He was a journalist who traveled around the world and even experience an awful lot of evil. Yet he would recognize that would own required worldview and I you also go into great detail about his upbringing.

What was it about his relationship with his father, that you thought may have contributed to his atheism think that may have been part sure I made a course on like, but we know from psychological got from our own researcher point foundation that the parent of court that are no great revelation. What I say to parent a very pivotal role in their own children.

There their own spiritual view or lack thereof got Christopher's father was, according to his descriptions are not in Peter description, a man who at least during the time I thought that's that's a good lead-in to the section. What was Christopher's father. Like listening to the line of fire on Frank Turek filling in for Dr. Michael Brown.

My guess is Larry Alex Taunton. The book is the faith of Christopher Hitchens where I come back with Larry yellow don't go away.

It's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international, and Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 8664 through here again is Dr. Michael Brown notes Dr. Frank to Dr. Brown on assignment in Australia will be back next week. If you're just tuning in, I'm talking my friend Larry Alex Taunton. The book is called the faith of Christopher Hitchens restless soul of the world's most notorious atheist and you need to get the book and you need to go back and listen to the last half hour. If you just tuning in, because the fascinating discussion a fascinating book and I Larry just before the break we were talking are you are about to tell us a little bit about the relationship, Christopher Hitchens, the notorious atheist had with his father. Can you tell us a little bit about that father was, according to brother Peter during the time that they were being away from the Christopher describe a man who would we finalize.

Peter told me that are good for lottery father that I was and I cannot any of this with someone who had been baptized in the other Church of England and who thought it is something about the religious beauty or at least a civic duty for them.

Some monitored on religious education and involvement in their church. It seems to me on this point I can't speculate that it seems to me to Christopher Reed.

But I will begin this fraudulent for keeping all be something that was just the gist of five and he wasn't going to do it.

He wasn't going to bend the knee to God. He did believe in a minute think they don't bother to believe that you writing the book again.

The book is called to say to Christopher Hitchens right the institutional Anglican church, the state church merely represented the established order, rather than aiming to reorder the heart through conversion.

The church had little to do with the Bible or Jesus Christ.

How do you think that affected Hitchens tedious all right through that Larry eventually good. I don't nobody thought about the Bible on a kind of security of controlling society. It was something he didn't like to eat strongly rebelled again because of it and 52 of the find much of his life until after the publication of God is not great at 2007 something rather interesting happened and that is that is a part of promotion for that book you challenge you on people of faith, the baby and guess who began debating him it wasn't, Muslims. It was a very few Jews.

It was mostly evangelical Christians, people like the right and I think that the you can counter counters with people like Colin Doug Wilson that had a real meaningful impact on yeah I think it did and your interaction. Probably the most because you as you document in the book to say to Christopher Hitchens had several interactions with him. You even how to move your house on occasion you you wined and dined him all over the place you went on road trips with them. You basically had your family with them and that you took him along so it's it's quite a very touching read the faith of Christopher Hitchens, the restless soul the world's most notorious atheist, so print out there if you're listening to this broadcast is the book you want to pick up even if you don't really know much about Hitchens, you learn a lot because Larry goes in here and looks at Christopher's life what may have led him toward atheism and how he was a divided soul. He indeed was a man. The Two boxes as he himself said and what he was contemplating.

Toward the end of his life will leave the final chapter for you to pick up and read and when we come back. I want to talk to Larry a little bit more about this and learn a little bit more about Hitchens.

What how Hitchens was a divided self also politically although he was an atheist he really wasn't a liberal atheist in an inch in terms of his political leaning so he is more conservative in that regard to talk about why that was how he didn't put up with political correctness. Right after the break on Frank Turek filling in for Dr. Michael Brown my website cross-examined God work back in just a couple minutes to the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown always Frank Jurek filling in for the great Dr. Michael Brown is on assignment in Australia be back next Tuesday. My guest today on this half hour with the line of fire is Larry Alex Taunton. His book the faith of Christopher Hitchens. Fabulous book. We've been talking about the book and out how Larry had quite an interesting relationship with Christopher over the past couple years of his life. And Christopher being one of the most prominent atheists in the world and that's what this book documents in his relationship with Christopher what Christopher was thinking in the last couple of years of his life and Larry you write in the book on page 93 the red Christopher held to his atheism to avoid the deep moral inquiry into his own behavior that accepting Christ would require too much of his life would have to be repudiated. Why do you think that was the case.

Well I think were weird having our Bible were driving through the Shenandoah Valley Road trip. Christopher asked me why I thought you didn't believe it was a serious question was about Mark you are you acting very clearly. I told him you know Christopher you really want to hear what I want my answer. You might be somewhat offended by my answer and that I could Christopher.

You've made a global reputation as an idea and I think you created a kind of prison for yourself to be very difficult for you to want to admit the law. I expected some pushback on the remaining file at the very thought on that.

I took that the reports I could be wrong but kind of quiet yes there was a modicum of true and what I regarding your money you know someone who was in an anonymous who haven't really made bold declarations. The written book that gone on television and radio ad nausea railing against God would find conversion simpler.

A great deal less complicated. And thirdly, not at all. I think Christopher would've found it very very difficult indeed. And also like you to been ostracized by many of the people who would celebrated just ask Anthony flew did the same thing as you want to work.

One of the most prominent philosophical atheist of the last century, when he came out not as a Christian. He just came out as if DST did he believe in an afterlife. When he came out that way. As you know Larry he he took all sorts agree from his fellow atheists who started the claim he was senile. So now you said that you could be wrong about that, but I found that motivation to be very prevalent among the atheist community.

Of course I can't make a broad statement said applies to everybody, but I normally ask people to question if Christianity were true, would you become a Christian and many times Larry atheist will say no and the reason for that is is because there's a moral implication to them. Moving from creek from atheism to Christianity. They don't want to give up something in their life for their lives that they don't want to give up they they think God Jesus is going to prevent them from doing something they want to do or will cause them to start doing something they don't want to do and so it's really more of a moral objection, then it is really an evidentiary objection. I don't know if you've discovered that among some of the people you've interacted with, but I have. I think it very true crime. I think there are those who believe in God, and certainly one of you thought of the kind of for you on something that was morally cowardly, yet somehow lit giving a kind of freedom that they enjoy.

But of course a lot of this out to be with a very fundamental misunderstanding what you some of it because now they understand very well what you submitting to the Lordship of God did in fact I member Christopher calling God a cosmic North Korean dictator peering in on our sex lives and it really gets down to the religion of sex for many people, rather than the religion of Jesus you know people don't want to give up what they think is sexual freedom, and it will prevent them from doing so and I don't know that was completely the case at Christopher's life, but he did mention that one of our debates, God's a cosmic North Korean dictator and he said I'd rather live as an atheist, that in this master slave mentality of religion. He said he thought it was morally superior to be an atheist than a Christian. Of course he's stealing morality from a standard he doesn't have to do that well (regarding a very good North Korea, lighthearted work. We want the claim that the right kind of moral high ground when their worldview. The 20th century would experiment the secular government God with government on no lab, no very conservative hundred million people die here of secular regimes which is more than all the previous three religious war combine so you know Christopher could say things like that, which are not rhetorical for the end of the day that there have no logical rhetorical or factual, but yet the gaping hole in his book God is not great is he leaves out all of the evil you just mentioned done in the name of atheism. Larry his book back after your debate with him.

He asked you this question. He said where did you get the stats on Stalin murdering priest did you ever interact with him on that. Afterwards, you by Robert well I mean he there is a big big blind spot in in in his and in his book there.

He just kinda left everything out, that atheist have done in the name of atheism as you say, a divorce what's been done in the name of religion.

In fact, I saw this recently Larry that in the in the encyclopedia of war.

Only 7% of wars have anything to do with religion.

And if you take Islam out it's only 3% and if you go back and you look at the last century World War I anything to do with religion.

Note World War II any religion, no Korean War, anything.

There is religion no Vietnam War anything to do with religion.

No no no no no and yet there I think 9/11 really change Christopher right about that in the book and change some of the other new atheist got a little bit more adamant in their viewpoint.

Now, it did change Christopher politically. Interestingly enough, you would think you'd be a political liberal Larry but he wasn't. No he was not well let me see what for both. Why was born in 1940, God declared you in at 815 94, and the clarity of the local economy to really define why I'm still not. But something went all him after that and Chris prefer began to attack the left politically, he became a crying dog actually. But I find the neocon after nonresident Berkeley became all this to somebody you would protest of the Vietnam War and so forth of everybody on the left.

And I think the 70s but but but Christopher made a massive political defection after 9/11, he did and that really was not reflected in his memorial service was at date date. All of his cronies treated him as if he had made that political switches that would you say that was a fair the setting.

Well, I think. I think that knowledge, yet your portable blip on the radar that would be got contrary and I actually think that Christopher was something more logical, driving the employee being, you know, arbitrary just for the sake of being arbitrary way that is often dealt with. I think of like with following up an arc. It was very similar to your outlook on but who became a Christian in the early 90s Christopher and become a conservative nonperson but I kind of down my debate with him. He actually admitted that he was more pro-life, but we got a minute before the break, Larry can just give us 30 seconds or 50 seconds on on his brother Peter, what you know about him and how did he become a Christian. An interesting guy looks like or don't like for you in the same profession, you, the Journal of youth very prominent Journal of also something of a conservative, he repudiated his on a few of the minutes, and I became a believer two years younger than the he is a very interesting guy. You can hear are not Larry Alex Fontenot, your my website, podcasts that I did with him a very interesting interview with the I have a chapter in the book called brother a discussion in the faith of prefer hitch in this blog about the two of the minute it fascinating the relationship, and Christopher's written I mean appear as written a book called the rage against God, and I will talk about that after the break and get into what Christopher thought about Islam and political correctness listening to Frank Jurek on the line of fire for Dr. Michael Brown, my guest today is Larry Alex taught in the book is the faith of Christopher Hitchens, a fabulous book you need to get back in just two minutes to go, gives the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown, the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown and Dr. Frank check filling in the great Dr. Michael Brown will be back next Tuesday down under in Australia administering down there, but my guest today on the line of fire is Larry Alex taunted in his book the faith of Christopher Hitchens will most notorious atheist who passed away a little over four years ago, a brilliant guy with a British accent sounded more brilliant than he was, but he was brilliant and he had a great rhetorical flourish in his a presentation that was so good in fact. Larry, you write in the book that Christopher was not a systematic thinker. He loved to season his rhetorical flourishes with literary references, but he didn't really have the depth of knowledge in many of the subjects he was debating. Why do you think that was the case or what. How did you come to that conclusion. I think you're right. But how did you come to that conclusion. Well, going out to watch debate one for what an academic actual never going to be so far as I know Christopher was a very capable debater, very clever guy, but Chris prefer infants would pronounce authoritatively on high on theology field where he possessed no expertise and it often when you saw him, particularly in debate with special ed deeds of the debate that I would say that you look at them on paper, you would find that out there.

Christopher Orman was was more smoke and mirrors.

But he was up but he was a much better showman than I with all due respect to a grandpa Collins. Christopher had a had a much much better presentation, as it were, but on paper, it often looks very different to what he think of political correctness and Islam. You know I the top of my head I can't think of anything that he might've said regarding a political correctness by your unit with Islam.

We got only work he wrote about it, spoke about it like and this is a place where I really miss because we could really use your mall may not get all the what he would say regarding the Obama administration policies regarding ice very regarding and I or the other recent massacre in Orlando work Charlie Abdo or think of that nature. I would have had flying is for issuing from his mouth and regarding anything. Yeah, in his book God is not dead to God is not great just have a chapter he does have a chapter in the Quran are on the carotid there and that he goes after the Koran, and in one of our debates. He actually went after an atheist from your sorry Muslim was asking a question.

It didn't actually make the final cut of the debate.

But the Muslim asked him a question and he excoriated this Muslim he basically called the Koran and these are his words. He said it was garbage. That's what that's what he said you went from a milder right regarding the Quran were also felt very personally connection with that because Salman Rushdie was a very dear friend of his that you have been living in hiding because of his own remark versus and so forth regarding Islam and so I think Christopher kinda picked up that standard. All work.

Yeah, he was unlike the other new atheists he really went after all religions pretty evenly taught for more Christianity but but he had no problem criticizing Islam and to discredit the recently Richard Dawkins has begun to come after Islam a little bit. To his credit. In fact, Richard Dawkins recently said that a lot of people think Islam is a race.

It's not a race. It's an ideology and can give credit where credit is due. Dawkins actually right about that. I think I think hard before I got I think that address. Richard regret nor thought I you that in the country with a very very high standards of a Muslim crisper. Hitchens left so good right much more boldly side of the Atlantic all about starting again.

The revolt of all of the Obama we go. Larry Reese got a couple minutes left in the book again is called to say to Christopher Hitchens.

Everybody I read this book. It's quite a great read your great writer Larry and it's just an interesting story. Your interactions with Christopher and what he was thinking toward the end of his life, but I want to give you an opportunity since this show is called the line of fire to take some fire from the other side and respond to it. I mean look at a bunch a one star reviews, which is there totally undeserved on Amazon you how a disk on that.

I read the book and they and they they just pooh-pooh the book and all Larry just trying to make money off of Hitchens death and how you responded that well you don't hear wrote a beautiful pre-week or two ago in the Wall Street Journal about the very thing about how you are both Eric crashing the Amazon web for this blog and giving it a one star review before the that they go off on II think. It is simultaneously annoying.

These are people of not read the blog they think the book makes claims that it is not Jerry Corning the scientist apparently wrote a review of the book in which he had not read the book, Larry Crowell, when a BBC worker is spherical what you've written, because it is anyone reading the book will read what you have written and will know they have not read the book Lawrence Kiger is perfect for large crowds to see makes things up out of nothing all the time. You know that music great read article in the in the, the New Yorker, where he talked about me making a claim of a death bed conversion you read the book no no you don't, I'll say that but I want people to read the books. I will give the whole thing away.

But no, you don't say that Christopher Hitchens converted in the end light but it is interesting what he was considering in the end. And so that's why it's worth a read for other reasons as well, but I don't think people realize to Larry that unless you sell a whole ton of books you not make a lot of money on books no longer there not a lot of money you know and but you know I keep writing about it. Perhaps that will that will give you the course. It is interesting to Larry that the same atheists who have no moral standard by which to judge anything are judging you wrong, even if that were true that you were trying to make money off his death. What's wrong with that if you're an atheist right there for what you were thinking in conversation with they were not part that's right well. The book is well worth the read. Again, it's called faith, Christopher Hitchens, the restless, all the world's most notorious atheist Larry Tom, that's my guess. Larry, thanks for being on the shelf all the way from France Larry Alex Taunton check out his website. Our website is cross-examined.org and get this book the faith of Christopher Hitchens and Dr. Brown is welcome to the line of fire likes my guest host Dr. Frank Derek's time for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown is actually Dr. Frank Derek. Ladies and gentlemen filling in for the great Dr. Michael Brown was on assignment in Australia and my website cross-examined.org that's cross-examined with a D on the end of it.org and co-author about having a faith to be an atheist in a new book called stealing from God why atheist need God to make their case. And today I'd like to talk about in this hour. The coexist bumper sticker yeah coexist by good, you're probably driving right now you see one right in front we actually are ministry have a contradict bumper sticker same symbols but it spells contradict because all world religions be true. I mean you'll hear this. Don't all religions lead to the same God isn't arrogant to say that one religion or one viewpoint is the right one in the light and to say that all religions lead to God and he doesn't the coexist bumper sticker habit right that's it were to talk about today and get your phone calls little bit later in the program and this as well as illustrated at least it's thought to be well illustrated by the famous elephant parable.

Have you heard of the elephant parable.

What is an elephant in front of the six blind men in they all have blindfolds on and there feeling different parts of the elephant and one is feeling the trunk and thinks the elephants a snake and others grab and the Tuscan says it to spear and others grab in the leg and says no, this is a tree, another has the tail says it's a rope and others got his hand on the side of the elephant says this is a wall and others grabbing the appearances. This is a fan and these men are supposed to represent world religions eased each world religion is supposed to have a different piece of the truth, but they don't have the whole truth, and this is supposed to illustrate what world religions are like they're all leading to the elephant but they don't really have the whole elephant. There saying that they have different parts of the truth, but they don't have the entire truth.

This is post illustrate all these world religions is just one big problem with the parable. The only way to know that the blind men are wrong is for you to see that that's an elephant in front of you. Well, if you can see that there is an elephant in front of you. Why can't the blind man if they just take off their blindfolds see it's an elephant. You see the parable teller has an objective perspective and he's saying all the other world religions don't have the complete truth, they have something wrong. Well, if he can have an objective for an objective perspective. Why can't everybody see you as the teller of the parable have the superior knowledge. The objective knowledge that you think no one else can have other words the pluralist. The person that things all religions lead to God. They think that they have the right perspective. Well, if they can have the right perspective.

Why can't other people have the right perspective. You see, it's not only logically wrong, that coexist could be correct. It's also biblically wrong to say that all religions lead to God is to contradict the entire Bible.

In fact, one of the central themes of the Old Testament is that Yahweh is the only true God and Savior. There's no God but Yahweh.

So Israel stop playing the harlot stop serving other gods, as he says in Isaiah 45 I am the Lord, and there is no other.

Apart from me there is no God. Of course, very first verse is the same state same thing in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. There's one God that many and they don't all lead all belief systems don't lead to the same place.

Logically, it's wrong to say that all religions lead to God, or that they will all teach the same things. Now there is an element of truth in the coexist bumper sticker.

I mean, the element of truth is this all for people from different religions coexisting, but that doesn't mean that different religions can all be true or lead to the same God. In fact, a more accurate description of world religions is not coexist but it's the bumper sticker I mentioned we have in our ministry.

It's contradict.

That's because religions have mutually exclusive, contradictory ideas of who God is and even how many gods there are which will talk about right after the breakup Frank Derek filling in for Dr. Michael Brown of the line of fire. Our website cross-examined.org cross salmon with a D on the end of it.org were back just to go join Dr. Michael Brown, along with his pastor's God multiply unique behind the scenes tour of Israel February 23 through March 6, 2017. Space is limited so accepting applications on a first-come first-served basis. For more information on the trip and to secure your spot, please visit our website@dr.brown.org and click on the Israel tour banner for color office at 704-782-3705 line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the minor fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown to fracture the great Dr. Michael Brown back next Tuesday.

I'll be with you again tomorrow on the line of fire today were talking about calling this the coexist bumper sticker you know the one you see out there I actually think the real truth is contradict we actually have a bumper sticker cross-examined.org which is contradict because all world religions can't be true.

In fact there mutually exclusive. They have mutually exclusive, contradictory ideas of who God is and even how many gods there are having some say God is personal. Other say God is impersonal.

Some say God made the universe.

Other say God is the universe. Some say there are many gods, other say there's one God. Even those who believe in one God disagree, for example, Islam said God says God is rigidly monotheistic, whereas Christianity says yes we have a monotheistic God, but God is a Trinity he's three persons in one divine essence Judaism, Christianity and Islam disagree on the death and resurrection of Jesus. Of course, Christianity says he died and rose Judaism says he died but didn't rise and Islam says he didn't die and didn't rise and the least plausible out of all those, of course, is Islam because even if there's one establish fact from ancient history is that Jesus actually died Islam try to say he didn't die and Islam comes 600 years after the events and tries to tell us something that the eyewitnesses tell us definitely did occur. Hiding the evidence is very strong. Jesus did rise from the dead. Fact some people will say well know, the New Testament writers invented the resurrection know it's exactly the opposite. The resurrection invented the New Testament writers. There would be no New Testament writers unless there was resurrection. You recall that all of the New Testament writers, with the exception of Luke were all Jews.

They already thought they were God's chosen people.

What possible motivation would they have to make up a new religion. If it wasn't true. Why would they do this they got beaten and tortured and killed for saying that the Jesus that they had followed had risen from the dead, you know.

Imagine a Jewish guy going to start a religion. We are yet once again to get us will first we kicked out of the synagogue, and then will get beaten, tortured and killed. Well, sign me up. Don't think they invented it. Okay. In any event, the point here is, is that world religions disagree now when people say all religions lead to the God you know what's really behind that the assertion is really a moral claim.

You see, all religions must lead to God because God would be unfair to judge people for having false beliefs, especially people who are indoctrinated into false religions. So it's really more of a variation above what about those who've never heard but the problem here is it's it's it's a moral claim.

The problem here is to say that all religions lead to God is like saying that all roads lead to New York that's not true effect.

Most roads do not lead to New York. Thankfully, I'm from New Jersey. By the way, so all religions and all viewpoints are exclusive. In fact, that's too long a story to tell. Right here, but I remember talking to a friend of mine before I was a Christian I just make it really short. We were speaking one morning over breakfast and I said you believe Jesus is the only waves a Christian suggests that you know she quoted John 14 six on the way the truth and the life no man comes the father except through me. I sent you markets really narrow.

Anyway, went to church that morning, the church will even know where it was. We got there late. We sat down to minutes into the sermon the guy the preacher goes and then Jesus said I'm the way the truth and the life no man comes to the father except through me. So my friend Marcus me the elbow and then the preacher goes and some people think that's narrow. So now Mark is really elbowing me and he goes but you know the truth is narrow. If I want to call my friend John here in the front row. I got a style intent numbers in the exact order to get John if I don't get one number wrong. I don't get John.

I get a wrong number. That's the way truth is it's very narrow, and he was actually right.

In fact, all truth excludes its opposite all religions and all viewpoints are exclusive and some will say we wait, we frankly mean, don't religions teach the same thing say about morality. Don't they teach you all love one another, to a certain extent, that may be true but not completely why, for example, Satanism doesn't teach that neither does Islam as some Muslims maintain to justify G hot by the commands of the Quran to kill unbelievers not obviously not all mustn't believe this, thankfully, but that's what the Quran says in it and in fact I saw the most contradictory set of bumper stickers on a suburban in Texas last year on one side of the bumper was the coexist bumper sticker on the other side of the bumper was was a US Marine Corps emblem you coexist. How can you have a coexist bumper sticker and a US Marine Corps bumper sticker. The Marine is probably over in Afghanistan right now fighting a world religion or group of people who adhere to a certain world religion who don't want to coexist with us. They think they can't coexist because they think were infidels, even if it were true that most world religions teach that you ought to love one another. That's only one small aspect of the religion. In fact, the truth is religion superficially agree with one another, but they fundamentally disagree.

As one writer sarcastically put it, he said oh yeah most religions teach that you love one another. The only disagree on the nature of man. The nature of God, since salvation heaven Helen creation outside of at exactly the same. Think about that they disagree on the nature of man. The nature of God, since salvation heaven Helen creation. In fact, think about it this way, even if they do have a common moral code. The similar moral commands across most religions don't coexist because the religions come from the same God. They coexist because morality comes from the same God. You see, most religions are invented by man, but the same moral law is written on the hearts of every human being by the same God, so we should expect invented religions to largely disagree on their religious beliefs because they are invented by different people, but we should also expect religions to largely agree on the moral principles because the same God gives the same moral principles to all people. In other words, we should expect people to express their moral beliefs and their religious writings since morality, the morality part comes from God. It's basically the same but since the religion part comes from man.

It's basically different. So of course you can have a similar moral code or caught across different religions, but what people believe about sin and salvation heaven Helen creation, the nature man. The nature of God will differ now, you may hear this too. Well you just think that NATO if you have the truth.

Your arrogant will gently's judgment. Truth doesn't have attitude arrogance is an attitude. It doesn't determine truth or falsehood. You can be arrogant, but right about something, just like you can be humble and wrong about something so yeah yeah you want to be arrogant about anything, but if your arrogant you're right you're right, you can be arrogant about 2+2 = 4.

Okay she got a bad tooth, but you're still right now. Look, if the claim of arrogance means you can't possibly know that your way is the right way and this is a self-defeating claim because the person who says you can't possibly know claims to know himself. How does that person know that you can't possibly know. Think about that. It's a self-defeating claim. It's like saying I can't speak a word in English. It's like saying my parents had no kids that lived. It's like saying my brother is an only child. These are self-defeating claims to say that you can't know is to know to say there is no truth is a truth claim. Somebody says there is no truth. Your essay is that true. So the point here is, is that everyone is exclusive. Everyone believes their view of spiritual reality is right. Everyone is narrow. The real question is how you treat people with whom you disagree. In fact, if you think about this if you really look at world religions. They're all exclusive. They all make exclusive judgments. Let's just go through the major religions really quickly and by the way, for just tuning in your listening to light a fire on Frederick filling in for Dr. Michael Brown.

Our website cross-examined.org cross-examined with a D on it of the.org and today in this half-hour affects of the entire hour to talk about this. Coexist situation and to all religions teach the same thing can hold all religions lead to God, and we been talking about it so far.

If you're just tuning in, you go back getting the liner fired and the.com and you can listen to this. The first part of this podcast later if you want to join the program little later in the program will take your phone calls at 866-34-TRUTH. That's one 866-34-TRUTH or one 866-34-TRUTH 878843487884 if you like to be on the program will take your phone calls on right we come back from the breaker and go through the major world religions and point out that they're all exclusive. They all exclude their opposites.

Whether it's Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, atheism, pluralism, whatever it is they all agree exclusive things about the afterlife. The only question is who's right and that's were to look at hot Frederick, and for the great Dr. Michael Brown on the line of fire. Again, our website cross-examined.org back in just a couple minutes the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown Dr. Frank Derek with the 7884 866-34-TRUTH 87842 like to be on the programmer talk about the differences between world religions and how they all can't be true because they mutually exclusive truth claims the coexist bumper sticker while it's a nice sentiment isn't reality for accurate is the contradict bumper sticker because they all can't be true. Now I can talk a little bit about pluralist who's a pluralistic pluralist to someone who believes that all religions lead to God that this person claims to know that all religions lead to God and at the same time, the pluralist is saying that the Christian can't know that Jesus is the only way will why not.

Why can the pluralist know that his way is the right way, but the Christian can't know that his way is the right way the pluralist might say that the Christians wrong for believing that Jesus is the only way to God but in fact the pluralist is claiming that everyone who disagrees with is wrong. The Christian the Muslim the Hindu the Buddhist the atheist everyone is wrong but him the pluralist. In other words, you see, everybody has exclusive claims narrow claims about the afterlife. In fact, let's just go through the major world religions very briefly here in the light a fire and point out that every one of these world religions has an exclusive claim about the afterlife.

Christianity believes you have a choice between heaven or hell. Between being with God are separated from God and his first John 512 says huge assistant does not have the son does not have life. Islam believes basically the same thing with regard to a choice of a choice between paradise or hell hellfire. According to sura five, verse 88, the fifth chapter in the Quran it says unbelievers will be inmates of hellfire so you either can be a good Muslim, or you're going to be in hellfire you have a choice.

According to Islam and Hinduism. You actually have no choice. Why because everyone is subject to the law of karma entrapped in reincarnations.

I guess you can improve your situation by being good. Whatever that means.

There's really no standard of good if there is no monotheistic being, whose nature is good, and Hinduism believes in many gods. Not one God, yet they steal from the monotheistic God. This moral standard and they talk about karma and everyone is subject to the law of karma really have a choice in this notice.

In the same way. There's no choice. Everyone subject the law of karma is trapped in reincarnations. Atheism, you have no choice why everyone just to cease to exist in the afterlife is become warm food is matter what you believe what you do, there's no choice. You can become warm from the pluralist actually believes you have no choice to live because it's compulsory heaven for everyone. Everyone's going to happen according to pluralist choice if you want to be with Jesus or whoever is in heaven. Sorry you're going there now.

They may balk at this a little bit when you say you mean Hitler's going there mean Stalin's going there. You mean child rapists are going there what what what what what went well and now you're making judgments here since ironically pluralists those who say all religions lead to God are the biggest exclusivist of all they say there's only one way no one has a choice. It's compulsory heaven for everyone. It's compulsory God for everyone. Well I got news for you. A lot of people don't want God.

You see, they been running from God their entire lives. They want to be left alone here and in eternity. Think about that. That's why asked the question on college campuses. In particular, I asked the question because I do a lot of I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. Events on college campuses by way if you're in college or you know somebody in college you want one of those on your college. Just contact us@cross-examined.org go to the website you see how to do that cross-examined with the unedited.org anyway ask questions of a there's a lot of college campuses. If Christianity were true, would you become a Christian and I've had many atheists yelled back at me know. Now wait a minute, to be an atheist, a beacon of reason nevermind of atheism's true reason doesn't exist why because of atheism's true forges molecules in motion that were not really reasoning anyway were just reacting.

But let's leave that aside, I ask you if Christianity were true, would you become a Christian and you say no house at reasonable has that rational. It's not easy. Most people aren't on a truth quest run a happiness quest.

They're going to believe whatever they think is going to make them happy. Problem you can do a lot of stupid sinful things over the short term, that'll make you happy over the short term but long-term.

It's a disaster. The only way to get true happiness and contentment is to go straight through truth and Jesus is the truth so asked the question if Christianity were true, would you become a Christian. If they say no or they hesitate.

The problem is and in their heads in their heart they don't want to be true. Why because they want to be God that want there to be God they want to be God they want to be gods of their over their own lives. They don't want any moral accountability or any restraint. In fact, ultimately, this boils down for a lot of people to the issue of sex is a new religion in America. It's called the religion of sex and if you cross the religion of sex. It's a religion of the sword, they will hurt you, I mean if you think about all the things we argue over in the public square. Dr. Brown is very articulate on these issues, we argue over things are related to sex. Whether it's abortion and same-sex marriage. Contraception paid for by the government proportion paid for by the government.

What bathrooms we use the transgender.

It's all related to sex because that's the new religion in America and old religion resurrected so the point here is back to the point of these different world religions is the fact that not everybody wants to go to heaven because Jesus is in heaven. People been running from Jesus, their entire lives to say that God is getting yank them into his presence for all eternity wouldn't be loving.

I mean, if God is all-powerful and he takes all people to heaven then what's the point of this life. Anyway, why doesn't he just skip this step, but is the just take us all to heaven right away. What's the point. It seems like this step this mortal life here is necessary so we can make a choice in God since he is a loving being will respect our choice as Tim Keller puts it, he says, look, everyone who makes a truth claim about the afterlife believes they are correct. Christians just think the consequences of what you believe are more severe than say and what an atheist or a Buddhist or Hindu beliefs. The consequences are more severe because God is a God of love and he's gonna respect our choices and if you don't want to love him.

If you don't want to be in his presence. Then you won't have to be hell is separation from God and all world religions teach something exclusive about the afterlife.

The only question is which exclusive belief is actually true. And for that you need evidence that's what we cover in the book. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

If you want to see the evidence that Christianity is true. Check out that book because that's what we cover there in that book.

But the point I'm trying to make here is, it doesn't matter what the coexist bumper sticker says it's just factually incorrect world religions contradict and all world religions are exclusive and if you disagree you can call in and we can talk about. Even if you agree we can talk about it at 866-348-7884. That's 866-34-TRUTH if you want to be in the line of fire. You're listening to the line of fire with me Frank Turk filling in for the great Dr. Michael Brown will be back next Tuesday's on assignment in Australia. Our website is cross-examined.org that's cross-examined.org and if you miss some of this program or the previous hour.

We had with Larry Trenton, the author of the book on Christopher Hitchens, you could ask Dr. Brown.org asked Dr. Brown.org to listen to the entire program and I were to be back in just a few minutes with more maybe her phone calls at 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH Frank turned filling in for Dr. Michael Brown back into the line of fire with your host activist, author, international, and Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution. The line of fire now by calling 664 through here again is Dr. Michael Brown is actually Dr. Frank turned filling in for the great Dr. Michael Brown, Dr. Beck, next Tuesday's in Australia right now.

Ministering were talking about can all religions lead to God. The answers know because they all teach mutually, mutually exclusive, contradictory things. And if you missed the first half-hour. You gotta go back and listen to it and asked Dr. Brown.org right now. Get your phone calls and 866-34-TRUTH that's 866-34-TRUTH 87884.

Let's start with Adam in Utah at a girl with Frank Turk, a red heads are high Likert about a book that contain the evident one per religion and wondering what what you were referring to get that's that's a book I co-authored with Dr. Norman Geisler is called I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. Okay, I Thought that I would. You could elaborate on the type of evidence for what evident was a scientific or the snow. I was in yet. There's evidence that you're going to use from science from history from philosophy to arrive at a conclusion about any world religion and it turns out that Christianity has more evidence behind it in those three categories than any other, in my view. And so, in the book we actually go through 12 points to show that Christianity is true, but the four main points at Amar, this we asked the question does truth exist because you, the Bible can't be true there's no truth. Obviously somebody says there is no truth or making a truth claim that they say there's no truth I estimate is that true. So obviously truth exist. The next question is does God exist because you can't have a word from God. If there is no God in the book we give three major arguments for the existence of God. What I mean by God's baseless, timeless, immaterial, powerful moral personal intelligent creator who sustains everything he created in the three arguments for that.

I don't have time to go into the details, but the cosmological argument you argued from the beginning of the universe, the teleological argument. The argument from the fine-tuning of the universe and the design in nature and in the moral argument. The idea that there's a moral law out there, and that moral law is what we mean by God's nature and from those three arguments out of you can come up with a space list timeless a material powerful moral personal intelligence sustaining because then we move on to the third question are miracles possible, because obviously the Bible can be true if miracles are not possible, but it turns out the greatest miracle in the Bible has already occurred and that's the creation of the universe out of nothing.

The evidence that the first verse of the Bible is true. True is very strong, both from a scientific perspective and a philosophical perspective if that verse is true. Every other miracle in the Bible is at least possible.

So when people tell me they don't believe in miracles. I normally say look around your living and want this universe is a miracle. Then you can get to the New Testament documents and see if Jesus really rose from the dead, and there's a lot of good evidence for that we cover in the book. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist on giving you a 448 page book in three minutes okay but those in the four major questions there are broken out into 12 points, but the four major questions are does truth exist as God exist are miracles possible is the New Testament reliable in the New Testament reliable. Turns out the Old Testament is as well because Jesus in the New Testament if he really is God that whatever he teaches is true.

Jesus taught the entire Old Testament word of God's of the New Testament reliably get the Old Testament droning so that's what the book does in much more detail than what I could say in the last three minutes. Makes more more evident why think science requires an orderly universe which requires in order verse of the very fact that we can do science and that natural laws don't change points to a divine mind that created these natural laws and keeps them consistent so the variability for us to do science at points back to what what we mean by God. So yes make sense.

Not really, but I'm about to check it out and is only so much we can do it four minutes. Check out the book. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist and there's another book called stealing from God why atheists need God to make their case. Thanks for the call were back in just two minutes and if you like to join the program.

It's 866-34-TRUTH 866 34 truth on Frank Turk filling in for Dr. Michael Browner website cross examined.org cross-examined with the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown line of fire now by calling 8663 here again is Dr. Michael Brown Dr. Frank Turk.

We don't change the voiceover guy comes in couple times a year, but it's Frank Jurek filling in for the great Dr. Michael Brown and I were talking about how all world religions can't teach there.

They don't teach the same things they can all be true mutually exclusive, but they all make exclusive truth claims particular about the afterlife and let's go to the phone line stay on the phone lines will go to Jeff and Durham North Carolina Jeff Charlotte Frank Turk, a red heads are to question about the I yes had a friend that I've talked with family really get the pluralism thing whereon it does you II try and him down. Actually on the exclusive. Claimant maybe your firm I get the hype it turned off all religions and all profit are things everything you think that you got about that. I am the way the truth and the life.

I think that would well know when you really understand it. He was just saying something true to that generation that time and it wasn't actually contradictory with other religions or anything. I worked hard to say that that was contradictory and he didn't buy it.

I didn't know where to go from there. Yeah, just if there's any one theme of the Bible is there's one God and he is the Savior me the whole theme of the Bible's redemption. The whole theme of the Old Testament was the Old Testament all about Israel.

You stop going after these other gods. There's only one God. I am the one God just worship me and everything will be all right in water. They can keep doing. They keep running away from the true God, and they go out and play the harlot with other gods, I mean it's it's really a life for Satan to say all of these world religions are true and are equally true. I will say this, all world religions teach some truth otherwise wouldn't believe anything about them right at the Satan's comes as an angel of light. He's gonna bring forth what appears, something that appears to be true, but it's really not the Baha'i faith teaches basically the pluralist. I think everyone's going to heaven today. All world religions lead to God that we been critiquing here the entire program that's logically incompatible because all world religions teach different things about God and they teach different things about the afterlife and it would be saying that all world religions are are are false to a certain extent because they don't teach with the Baha'i faith teaches so it's really a another way of saying that all religions lead to the same place when in fact the religions themselves don't teach that. So you know it's interesting to me Jeff.

I we realize that all roads lead to New York, for example. Yet we come up with these metaphors that say all roads lead to God. What they don't. The metaphor that even work and yet they're trying to say that this metaphor applies to two to God the world religions make exclusive truth claims about who God is, who man is what the nature of sin is with the nature salvation is whether we were created or not. All these things and and yet some people out there trying to say whether all teaching the same thing. No there there teaching. Superficially the same moral code because the moral code comes from God directly to man but they disagree on the nature of man. The nature of God, since salvation heaven Helen creation disagree on just about everything that makes sense yeah so and by the way, there's a good tactic that my friend Greg Koegel has when somebody says something effectively is a book called tactics when somebody says something. It's not your job to refute what they say it's their job to support what they say. So somebody teaches us that somebody says well all religions teach basically the same thing. You don't have to refute it, you have to ask them first.

What we mean by that. Secondly, how did you come to that conclusion that they all teach the same thing. Have you read them all. You know that all these the same thing because after you asked that question there to be out of intellectual justification for their position because he really think about it, they disagree on just about everything so that some questions before try to refute what they say they'll refute themselves. If you ask enough questions. I felt he wouldn't admit it and it was really slippery and not now. I think what yeah III think it's really a moral claim at the end they want everybody to go to heaven. So does God.

By the way, but he can't force people to go to heaven.

You can't force somebody to love you. That's why Jesus is the only way some arbitrary claims only okay on the only way the reason Jesus is the only way is there's there's only one way and infinite being who has infinite one attribute is infinitely just very one attribute is infinite, just as the other appendectomy is infinite love.

You only reconcile those two things is to be just and the justifier at the same time as as he says. As Paul says in Romans 326. The only way that God can remain just and justify sinners is if he takes the punishment himself, and who is that that's Jesus himself. That's why Jesus is the only way some arbitrary claim it's just the way reality is that if God can remain just and punish sin, and yet allow sinners into his presence. He's gonna punish somebody so he punishes himself basically make sense, but what they said on by. Thanks a lot Ed and if you like to join the program.

You're listening to light a fire, my name is Frederick, filling in for the great Dr. Michael Brown will be here with you tomorrow.

Lord willing, and Dr. Brown be back next week on Tuesday he's in Australia right now are our phone numbers 866-34-TRUTH, 866-34-TRUTH, and let's go up to Canada to Don Don is in Ontario, Canada.

Your online apartment had done no no I don't believe me but I guarantee you well there you go around me. I think I excellent. You're absolutely right. If you seek, you will find, and Jesus of course said the truth will set you free, and that implies. If you don't have the truth you're in bondage. Think about that friends if you don't have the truth here in Bonn just if the truth will set you free major in bondage before you have it so about don't want God to give it out one way yes love God and love your neighbor. All I know, talk, talk to all my my bank but I don't know how exactly do not yeah exactly.

Jesus knew the cup was coming toward him.

The copy had to drink, which was something that would kill him and he said if this cup could pass from me, Lord, pass it from me and and he went ahead with the crucifixion, which was just absolutely brutal. In fact, in the book.

I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. We have an account of the crucifixion. When you read it you will certainly if it doesn't touch you. There's something wrong with you. In fact, last week I was in the garden of Gethsemane and we brought a group Israel had about 87 people go with us to Israel. I read that account in the garden of Gethsemane and it is a powerful account of the crucifixion we have it reprinted in the book. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. With this is a delightful call Donna were coming up on a break, I want to thank you for calling all the way from Ontario. Thank you so I could keep doing it. Done especially in Canada.

We love you up there. Our northern neighbor. Thank you so much Donna, thank you so much. That's Donna from Canada Frank Turek filling in for Dr. Michael Brown.

Our website cross-examined.org that's cross-examined with a D on the end of it.org like our Facebook page. Also, if you want this entire broadcast asked Dr. Brown the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown Dr. Frank Turek filling in for the great Dr. Michael Brown to be back next Tuesday. Our phone number 86 34 true that's 866-34-TRUTH 7884. Great to have Donna from Ontario call us in the last segment if you like to be on the program got eight minutes left call in now were talking about this idea that all religions teach the same thing. That's quite obviously not the case. They're all different, they agree on some superficial things, but they disagree on the beat the big things, the nature of God, the nature of man, sin, salvation, heaven, hell, in creation, so those are the big issues now in what sense all religions can lead to the true God because after you try them out. You realize that you can't live up to the demands of any religion. You see, that's the biggest difference between all other religions and Christianity and all other religions. People are attempting to work their way to God do this do that do do do do do in Christianity we don't work our way to God. God works his way to us. He puts on human flesh and he does everything for us. He literally comes to earth and humanity over his deity to save the very creatures that rebelled against him and he allows those creatures to torture and kill him so he can save them from themselves. If that's not the greatest story ever told.

I don't know what is so other religions are do do do do Christianity is done done done done all you need to do is trust in Christ for your salvation. In other words except the free gift and if you don't accept the free gift God won't force you into heaven against your will. If you don't want God. Now you're not that I want to me in eternity as an attorney. Jesus is in eternity. Now many of the reasons are one of the reasons that people assert that all religions lead to God is as I mentioned earlier, there's a moral claim smuggled in there.

You see, they say all religions must lead to God because God would be unfair to judge people for having false beliefs, especially those are indoctrinated into false religions, and so that would be unfair of God. No notice. This is a moral judgment. Here's the problem. You can have an objective moral judgment unless God exists. If you're an atheist you can't say it's immoral of God to do X wires see because you have no moral standard by which to judge. No objective moral standard by which to judge anything right or wrong.

Now, if God exists and he does.

He's the very standard of goodness and rightness and justice and fairness.

God is fair. So from our limited time bound perspective, we might not always be able to see how he is fair ultimately but since God is the objective standard of fairness.

He, by definition, must be fair must be right must be just and God wants people to be saved more than we do that, there's a clue in X 17 on this. You know it's the old. What about those who've never heard there's just a clue. It may or may not be the answer. Some people say we don't know about those who have never heard someone say that but there's a clue here in X. Chapter 17 Chris Paul was up on Mars Hill before the Athenians and he's talking to them about the unknown God that they've made this little title to or should say this little little altar to case.

They left somebody out. They had all their other gods around them as they want to have an altar to an unknown God.

Paul just in case they left anybody out. Paul comes and tells them about this unknown God.

And here's what one of the things he says. He says in Lexi's acts chapter 17 verse 26 he says from one man God made every nation of men that they should inhabit the whole earth, and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out to him or reach reach out for him and find him although he is not far from each one of us, for in him we live and move and have our being. Some of your own poets have said says that God disappears say God is so prearranged events that people live where they're supposed to live so that some will find him, that he knows that not all will find it.

Mike is all don't want to find. In other words, it might be boy put it this way, we know that there are many people hear the gospel and rejected right. It could be that those who never hear the gospel would not believe that anyway because God is so prearranged. The way the universe is that they live in places that don't hear the gospel. Obviously that's a possibility, but at the end of the day.

We know this God is just that nobody will who winds up in heaven will go well. I should wound up in Heller winds up in hell will go well. I should've been in heaven now summer God. That's pretty Calvinistic about well, I'm not a Calvinist, but I I do know that God knows everything before he begins.

He he creates the universe and he knows how it's going to turn out but that doesn't mean he's causing us to do what we do. Just because he knows what were going to do doesn't mean he causes us to do it.

If you watch a football game that's already been played you've TiVoed it. Yuri know the score. Yuri know what's gonna happen, but that doesn't mean you're causing the players on the field to do what they do. Just because you know what they're going to do doesn't mean you're causing them to do what they do the same thing is true with God.

Yuri knows when he creates this universe, how it's going to turn out but that doesn't mean he's causing it. PS maybe prearranged events when he created this universe. He knew how things would turn out where people would live in by electing to create this universe. He elected the outcome but nobody is choosing not to believe or to believe they're not being forced by God to believe they do have a choice in the matter so on saying here. It could be that those of never heard wouldn't believe it anyway. We do know this, that if you seek God after he first seeks you and you seek to find him. You will get the gospel and you will be saved. That's what the Scriptures teach. He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him. Now if anyone's got to be fair to be God. Going back to this objection. This objection that all religions have to lead to God because God is going to be fair know they don't all have to lead to God.

God is good to be fair weather. All religions lead to God or not because he is fair, he's the standard of fairness, but they don't lead to God because is only one way to reconcile infinite justice and infinite love and that is in the person of Jesus. It's not arbitrary. It's the way reality is, and that's why it's the most important message you could give anybody because it has eternal consequences look as we talked about earlier in the program. Everybody believes that what they believe about the afterlife is right. The only question is who is right, what is the right view and every view about the afterlife is exclusive. Every view says they're right and somebody else is wrong. The only question is what is the right view. For that you need evidence and you need somebody who's been to the afterlife and come back to tell us who's done that. Jesus says so check out the rest of this podcast by going to ask Dr. Brown.org. If you're just tuning in and then tune in tomorrow at the line of fire because I'll be back.

We'll talk more about issues like this apologetics evidence that kind of thing that you can call in it 866-34-TRUTH. In the meantime check out our website cross-examined.org that's cross-examined with a D on the end of it.org. My name is Frank Turk, co-author of. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist and the new book stealing from God why ideas need God to make your case, thanks to Betsy Matt to Joey all the producers there will see you tomorrow. God bless


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