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Phone lines are open. It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on The Line of Fire. And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown.
Thanks, friends, for joining us on The Line of Fire. Yes, it is our end-of-the-week broadcast. You may be listening on a different day, maybe American Family Radio on a Sunday afternoon, maybe by podcast or on another TV network.
Welcome to the broadcast. Here's the number to call, 866-34-TRUTH. Any question you have of any kind that relates in any way to The Line of Fire, 866-348-7884. Hey, if you are one of our new listeners in Dallas, in Chicago, we would love to hear from you. So go on, give us a call. We'd love to answer your questions.
And with that, we go straight to the phone, starting with Lewis in Las Vegas, Nevada. Welcome to The Line of Fire. Hey, good afternoon, Dr. Brown. Nice to talk to you. Good to talk to you, sir.
Yeah, I'm on these group chats, you know, post-trib against pre-trib, and I just wanted to bring this up, because I saw this in one of your debates, and I was challenging people with this. I usually take them to 2 Thessalonians 1, where I think Paul is very clearly telling when the Church is going to receive rest or relief from persecution. And what he brought up to me, and this is my question, is about the interpretation of the word falling away. Now, his name's Rolando Gonzalez, and I'm saying his name because I told him I'm calling you today, and I want you to tell him that inside and outside of the Greek language, that it is never interpreted departure. Departure means departure from the faith. The Greek apostasia, of course the word from which we get apostasy, is translated by some, falling away, translated by others, rebellion. If you look at every major ancient Greek lexicon, a New Testament lexicon, there is complete unanimity. There is no question that it is a spiritual falling away, a spiritual departure from the faith, a rebellion, and apostasy.
There is complete unanimity among all ancient and New Testament Greek lexicons and lexicographers. There's no argument over it. I had a friendly debate with Derek Turner, I believe that was his name, in England a few years back on this, and in his book he tries to dig deeper and show no apostasy, it can mean physical departure. We dealt with that in the debate.
It's actually not the case. And when you point to some old English translations that talk about the departure, when you read the rest of the translations and how that's used elsewhere, it's the departure from the faith. It is never used ever in ancient Greek, New Testament Greek, all the attestations from ancient sources, it is never ever used to mean departing from one place and being brought to another place physically. It is always exclusively spiritual departure, spiritual falling away, spiritual apostasy, spiritual rebellion, 100% of the time.
There is no ambiguity in the text, which is why there's no ambiguity in English translation after English translation around the world. Great. Thank you, sir. Thank you, and bless you, Rolando, check out what I said.
866-348-7884. So let me give you the background. And we can differ over this in the Lord, right? These are not things we divide over in Jesus. These are not things where we break fellowship or we don't work together for the Lord. You may be pre-trib, someone else post-trib, someone else amillennial, someone else post-millennial, but all believers, all loving Jesus, all seeking to honor Him, live for Him, recognizing that salvation is only through the cross, Jesus is the only Lord, et cetera. So we don't divide over this. And if you differ, you think I'm wrong, that's not a problem. Unfortunately, some people get so devoted to a doctrine, whatever it might be, that the moment you differ, they call you the Antichrist or heretic or Pharisee.
That's unfortunate. But the argument, 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul's writing and saying, hey, I don't want you to be unsettled. You heard some report you thought came from us about the day of the Lord and our gathering to Him. Same words used in 1 Thessalonians 4 about us being gathered to the Lord, right, when He returns. So the question is, are we gathered to Him? We go out to meet Him as He returns and escort Him back, or we gather to Him and return to Heaven with Him.
And then seven years later, escort Him back. Right? So to me, the Scripture is explicitly clear that we meet Him in the air as He descends to set up His kingdom on the earth. And 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul says, that day of our being gathered to Him will not come until the apostasy happens.
Right? The falling away from the faith happens and the man of sin is revealed. So it's telling us we'll see the final rebellion and falling away and the revealing of the Antichrist. And then when is the parousia, the coming we're waiting for? It's at the end of this when the Lord will come to destroy the wicked and destroy the Antichrist. That's what Scripture teaches, and that's what the discussion was about. Let's go over to Brian in Fort Worth, Texas.
Hey, Brian, you know, we were in Fort Worth and checked out KWRD, K-W-R-R-D, our great FM station there, and it was loud and clear in Fort Worth. So, just in case you didn't know that. Oh, that's awesome, Dr. Brown.
Hey, thanks for having me on. You bet. My question is, it's about the Garden of Eden. So I've been studying ancient Near East poetry, and I've noticed that they use a lot of sexual imagery and references to plants and fruits. And so when you compare that at the timeframe to the Garden of Eden, was the fall, was that sexual in nature by chance? You know, I always think of a fruit, but when you... No, it's not, fruit and plants are not commonly used in sexual connotations throughout Scripture.
They're used hundreds of times in different ways. Very few times they're used in terms of metaphor for something sexual. They're only in something like Song of Solomon. But in Genesis, no, there's no clue of that. There are ancient traditions well after the time of the Bible with no biblical support that there was a sexual fall or that Eve had sex with the snake.
You know, some crazy stuff like that. But there's zero support in Scripture for it. The fall, the act of disobedience was simply that.
And look, look at it the other way. There was the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The tree of life certainly has no sexual connotations with it, no sexual acts associated with it. So they're both symbolic ultimately of obedience, disobedience, faith, unbelief, et cetera, and how we walk that out as opposed to having any sexual connection there. It's always a fair question to ask. You see something in the Bible, you try to study it out. But in this case, no, I'm sure it wasn't a sexual act that was the fall.
Okay. And then with the Garden of Eden and the Satan in there, how do we call that a perfect paradise when Satan had already fell from heaven? So sin essentially was already in the garden. Yeah, so we call it perfect paradise, paradise. The Bible just says there was a garden, right? A gone in Eden, so gone Eden, the Garden of Eden. However, there was no compulsion on human beings to sin or do evil.
Look, just like here, let me ask you this. Was heaven perfect before Satan fell? Yes, but there was the choice to obey or disobey.
That's the mystery of free will, right? That I can choose to disobey even in a perfect world and now that then evil is actuated. So there was no evil present in Adam.
And he of course doesn't mention Satan or just speaks of the snake, but understanding that it's Satan working through the snake, there was no actual evil there. There was the potential of good or bad, of obedience or disobedience. So from day one, it was a perfect setting that was also a test. And you're right in saying this, Brian, forever and ever it's going to be different. Forever and ever, that's when it's perfect without the possibility of sin. We will have chosen righteousness. We are now in resurrected bodies.
We will never be tempted again. There'll be no Satan, no sin, no fall, no world. So that will be different. But initially there was a perfect environment with obedience, with the possibility of disobedience. So it is different.
And right, if we speak of a perfect paradise, it's fair maybe that we modify that description just a little because the possibility of testing was there. So I appreciate that thought. All right. Well, I appreciate your insight, Dr. Brown, and taking my phone call. You bet. You bet. All right.
866-348-7884. I'm going to go right back to the phones, but I just remembered yesterday that I failed to mention something really important to you. We hear so much in June about Pride Month, and there are many things that we might find offensive that are just pushed in front of us day and night. And many people, not just Christians, are pushing back and saying enough already. Hey, we want to be decent to everyone. We want to be kind to everyone and treat everyone with respect.
But this is constant push. Above all, though, as followers of Jesus, we need to know how to reach out with compassion to people, reach out to individuals with the love of God, the same love that reached us when we were in sin, rebellion, confusion, deception, whatever it was, in our atheism, in our hypocritical Christianity, in our drug use, in our immorality, in whatever it was, right? So we want to extend that same mercy and grace.
But what does the word say? How do we help people that say, well, I can love Jesus and be with my gay partner at the same time, and you're just misinterpreting the Bible? The same way the Bible was misinterpreted with slavery, it was misused to support slavery, it was misused to support segregation, it was misused to support the oppression of women. It's being used to suppress gay and lesbian relationships today. And on top of that, you're trying to put Old Testament law on New Testament Christians, and you don't even keep the Old Testament law.
How do we respond? So I've written a book, it's the best resource we have on this, called Can You Be Gay and Christian? Can You Be Gay and Christian? Responding with Love and Truth to Questions About Homosexuality. It is filled with grace, deeply embedded in the word, and with compassion towards those struggling. When you get the book this month, all right, this is special for this month to equip you, when you get the book, if you're interested in this, order the book, and we want to give you absolutely free this DVD of an eye-opening debate I did at Rabbi Shmuley Boteach's request. Rabbi Shmuley and I, Is Homosexuality America's Greatest Moral Crisis?
I didn't believe it was, he didn't believe it was either, but there was a big divide between us and our approach. This is free, the DVD is yours free when you order the book. If you can help with an additional contribution, that's awesome.
But, by all means, I encourage you to check this out. You can call 800-538-5275. If you'd like the book, the free DVD with it, call 800-538-5275. Pastors, leaders, you'll find it really helpful.
Maybe get a couple believers, one for you, one for your pastor. So check it out, 800-538-5275. You should be able to find it on the website too, askdirectorbrown.org.
If you click on shop, you'll be able to find it. Alright, we will be right back with more of your questions. Magic static, call me a fanatic It's our world, they can never have it This is how we rise, oh It's our resistance, you can't resist us This is Michael Ellison, founder and president of Trivita Wellness. When I heard Line of Fire with Dr. Michael Brown, I knew this voice needed to be heard everywhere. A voice to help the church and spiritual leaders be strong.
We need leaders like Dr. Brown who's not only courageous, but applies the wisdom of God to help us have understanding in declaring God's word in love. And that is why Trivita Wellness has chosen to be a co-sponsor along with you as listeners supporting the Line of Fire radio broadcast. We also believe wellness and purpose is vital to our lives. I've written a book on the 10 essentials of wellness.
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800-771-5584. This is how we rise up It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.
Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back to the Line of Fire. Thanks to our co-sponsors, Trivita. Thanks for their generosity, giving 100% of your first order to the ministry here so we can reach more people on the Line of Fire. And by God's grace, we're making an impact. By God's grace, lives are being changed. I'm going to the phones momentarily, but have you ever seen, you know, dominoes fall? And now, you know, people post on internet this long thing. I mean, it's unbelievable.
I can't imagine how long it took to set it up and get it all exactly right. So many dominoes, it seems, have fallen the wrong way spiritually and morally in America. For the last generation. And what I'm seeing is as individual believers are saying, not on my watch, not on my watch, not on my watch, boom, it's starting to turn. It's starting to turn. If we put the love of God together with the truth of God, the Spirit of God, the Word of God, we could see amazing things happen in front of our eyes in this generation.
And our kids and grandkids can grow up in a better world than we did. 866-34-TRUTH. Let's go to Bill in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Welcome to the Line of Fire. Hey, thank you, Dr. Bowen. How are you doing today?
I'm doing very well, thanks. Hey, I heard you make a statement when you debated Dale Tuggy a while back. I don't know how long that's been. But anyway, you said you believe the dual nature of the Lord Jesus. That the Son didn't die, but the body died. And so, well, I'd like to ask you, do you believe that Jesus paid the judgment that was against all humanity because of sin? Yeah, the Son died.
The Word's explicit on it. The Son died, but what did that mean? Did it mean His Spirit died? No, our spirits don't die when we die.
Any human being, right? So, Luke 16, upon death, we're either with the Lord or separated from the Lord, right? Our spirit lives on. If God decides ultimately to destroy a human spirit, but we die, it's real death.
It was real death, a real death on the cross. But He didn't cease to exist. If His Spirit died, He would have ceased to exist. Well, I agree that, you know, when He died, He said, into the hands I commit, you know, talking to the Father, I commit my spirit. But the Spirit, in other words, is the life that He lived in the body, you know, and the soul, I mean, was separated from God. So, this scripture says, the soul that sin is, it shall die.
So, He just took the judgment that was against all of humanity. So, yes, I mean, the person, the son, you know, died. He died. He died, in other words. Otherwise, the judgment hasn't been, you know, taken care of.
But you have to understand, Dale. So, that was my question, because you said the body died. Yes, just to clarify, Dale Tuggy and his, those of like theology, don't believe that the Spirit lives after death, okay? From what I understand, from the people we interacted with afterwards, they don't believe the Spirit lives on after death, that the body dies, the Spirit dies, that's it, until resurrection, all right? So, I don't believe that. So, let me ask you this, what happened to the Spirit of Jesus? The Spirit went to the Father, that is, the Spirit is what God used to judge that person, you know, in terms of whether, you know, the person would be righteous, or not, in terms of, you know, the life that he lived and the body.
Let's try it from this angle. Jesus was fully God, and fully man, correct? I don't believe that.
Oh, of course he was. Scripture, ah, so, that's, you're differing, you have a different theology, that's your issue. Okay, no problem. So, you agree with Dale Tuggy's theology, is that it? I believe that Jesus Christ is the last Adam, we've got an echo or something.
I believe that Jesus is the last God. All right, so, let's restructure this. Okay. In Hebrews 1, it explicitly says that he is God the Creator, he's called God, and he's the one who created the universe in the beginning, right?
Oh, no. Hebrews 1 is quite explicit on that, and as you saw, Dale Tuggy had no answer to it the entire debate, what do you do with that, sir? Okay, we're, I tried to start with, I don't know, we've got a dang ash echo, so I'm sorry, I mean, it's a bad connection.
Not a problem, that can happen. Hebrews, the first chapter, do you have a Bible, Andy? Okay, but I'd like to go to John 17, one through three, which says that, No, no, hang on, I addressed all those in the debate, very easy to address them. Very easy to address, no problem whatsoever, and there Jesus does speak in John 17 of the glory that he had with the Father before the world was created, right? That's prophetic, yes.
No, it's nothing prophetic about it. So, Bill, Hebrews 1, do you have your Bible in front of you? Oh, yeah, I know what Hebrews 1 says. Okay, so start reading from verse 7.
Can you do it out loud? Verse 7, okay, I don't have the, I don't have the verse 7, you know, God in various times. Okay, so I'll read it then for everybody here, okay? Okay, go ahead. It would be better just to know your objection up front so I could have responded better, but I'm going to start reading Hebrews, the first chapter, all right?
And, let's go. Of the Son, so contrast to the angels, verse 8, of the Son he says, Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever. The scepter of righteousness is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness, therefore God your God has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions, and you, Lord, speaking of the Son, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain. They will all wear out like a garment, like a robe, you will roll them up, like a garment, they will be changed, but you are the same and your years will have no end. That's spoken of the Son of God, that in the beginning he created the universe and the years have no end.
Explain that. No, I believe the new creation is the agent in the new creation. No, no, it doesn't say that. And you, Lord, laid the foundations of the earth in the beginning, quoting from Psalm 102, in the beginning. This is not future, sir. Yeah, the whole thing was founded on the basis of God giving his uniquely begotten Son at a particular point in time. You, Lord, speaking to the Son, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning. Your throne, O God, speaking of the Son, is forever and ever. He's called God, right? He's explicitly called God. And you, Lord, speaking of the Son, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning.
How can it be God when he said, Jesus said, that his Father was the only true God? Well, Bill, Bill, just deal with this. No, we'll have to take all... Okay, Bill, all right, I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what. You have no answer to these questions.
Dale, I'll tell you with all respect to him, had no answer for these questions. You have to come up with the most convoluted things to get your way out of it. The very same Gospel of John, he's already said, my Father's in me and I'm in my Father. All right, if you've seen me, you've seen the Father.
The Father and I are one. He's already been revealed as the Word made flesh, the eternal Word that was with God in the beginning, that was God. By the time you get to John 17, when Jesus says, this is eternal life in verse 3, that they may know you, the only true God and Jesus the Messiah whom you sent. He's the only true God as opposed to all the other gods. He's already said that he's one with the Father.
He's already said that, okay? Not only so, you can go to Jude and it speaks of Jesus as the only Lord. Does that mean that the Father is not Lord?
Again, that was a question that Dr. Tuggie had no answer for. He said maybe there's something in the Greek that he'd forgotten, you know, a potential textual variation question, et cetera. So, if Jesus is the only Lord, that means that the Father's not Lord.
That's not what it's saying. When Jesus says, you, the Father, the only true God, it means that none of the other gods are real. You're the only real God and he and the Father are one and he now comes into the earth as Jesus the Messiah to save the world. Bill, you need to reconsider your theology because what you have to do is throw out verse after verse after verse after verse after verse to squeeze things in to that impossible box. When Thomas cries out to him, my Lord and my God, Jesus doesn't rebuke him in John 20, 28 and following.
He doesn't rebuke him. Instead, it took you long enough to realize, may the Lord open your eyes. Go back to Hebrews 1, get on your face, get on your knees before God and say, God, I want to follow your truth wherever it leads.
Controversial or not, you may have to leave some of your circles for it but it'll be worth it. Revelation 5, the whole creative universe will worship the Father and the Son, God on the land, that worship only goes to God, only to God. Thank you for the call. This is how we rise up, it's our resistance, you can't resist us.
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Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back to the line of fire. My joy and privilege to be here to minister the word of truth to you.
866-348-7884. You know, when you have theology, you're always going to have a verse that seems to raise a question somewhere, right? Whatever you believe, there's going to be a verse, a passage, and what you have to do, and this to me is a test of the integrity of how we do theology and how we follow the word. When you're faced with something that seems to contradict your position, now there may be an easy answer, oh, that's just a translation error, it should be this. Or, oh, just look at the verse this way, it's like, ah, and the contradiction goes away. Other times, like, hmm, I'm not sure how that works. So, to me, the credible thing to do is not to try to twist it to fit your theology.
Maybe you have 100 verses over here that seem to say something clearly, but two over here that seem to say something different. So what do you do? You wait on it. You study, you think about it, you ask for insight, Lord, this is all in your word, how does this work?
I've done that sometimes and days later, boom, oh, simple, there. Others is years later. And, okay, good, good. So, because the scripture's so overwhelmingly clear in one direction, I'm sure about what I believe, but I've got a couple of questions here or there, and then those resolve themselves. When people have to do what our last caller did and completely rewrite the meaning of Hebrews 1, I mean, dramatically, and then undo the whole testimony of John, based on John 17, 3, then you say, okay, they've got it backwards, they're taking something here, this tiny exception here, and trying to get rid of the mountain of evidence.
And that's often how people get into cult-like beliefs, by the way. 866-3-4-TRUTH. We go to Robert in Mountain Home, Texas. Welcome back to the line of fire. Robert, you're still there.
I guess not. All right, that frees up a phone line. Perfect time to call, 866-3-4-TRUTH. Let's go to Scott in Ocean County, New Jersey. Welcome to the line of fire.
Yes, how you doing, Dr. Brown? I'm trying to see if I can ask my question as succinctly as possible, because I have a tendency to be too detail-oriented, and this is not the place, so here's what I'll do. So, okay, so I talk to a lot of people, I've attended Messianic synagogues, and there seems to be confusion about the obligation of Gentile believers to obey or the requirement of keeping the ordinances of the law of Moses and, you know, Jew versus non-Jew believer.
So here's my question. Let's say under the assumption that Jewish believers are required to do that, which laws would they be required to follow, and what would be the nature of the requirement? Would it be mandated?
Would it be obligatory, like there's a sanction if you don't do it? And the last question is, in reference to Exodus 31, 14 through 17, and Exodus 32, 13, where it uses the word everlasting in the English. From what I've read in the original phraseology in which it was written in the original language, it doesn't mean without end.
It refers to a span of time, but there are places, for example, where it talks about how we worship God or the eternal punishment in hell, where it does mean without end. That's my question. Yeah, so great, and you did a wonderful job of asking a lot of important things succinctly. So I can get into details too much as well, so well done. Thank you.
Okay, let me break this down. Let me start with the fact that you have different words used either for all generations or for all time, which can either mean a span of time or it can mean eternity, like when it speaks of God in Psalm 90, may olam va'ad olam, from olam to olam, you are God. It just doesn't mean from span of time to span of time, but from everlasting to everlasting, you are God. So olam can have that meaning or it can just have the meaning like always, you know, until you die or something like that, but 75% of the, quote, forever or for all generations commandments in the Torah require a functioning temple, priesthood, and Jewish legal sovereignty to carry out certain things. So without that, 75% of the Torah commands that are forever for all generations cannot be kept, which underscores the fact that we are not under the Sinai covenant, that God has given a new and better covenant. Okay, as for Gentile believers, I can say explicitly, without any hesitation that the New Testament does not mandate or expect Gentile Christians to observe the law of Moses. So the question you asked is the more legitimate one, which is, what about Jewish believers? If you go to Acts 15, whereas there are quite emphatic that Gentile believers do not need to take on the yoke of the Torah, it was assumed that Jewish believers would continue to live by it. Scott, my understanding is with the destruction of the temple, with the inauguration of the new and better covenant through the cross and resurrection and then the finalizing of clarity of that with the destruction of the temple, God has given a new and better way. So it's not a matter now of keeping the law of Moses or the Sinai covenant. For a new covenant Jewish believer, the question is, to what extent does the new covenant call me to live as a Jew? My understanding is it's going to vary from person to person based on calling, based on background, based on divine purposes in their lives as we have many different expressions of Judaism and Jewishness in the non-Jesus Jewish world. So the 97% of the Jewish world.
Others would say no. If you're saved circumcised, 1 Corinthians 7, if you're called and you're circumcised, don't become uncircumcised. In other words, continue living as a Jew. My friends that hold to that that it's a matter of covenantal calling would say that it has to do with the fundamental things that God gave Israel from Sabbath to the Holy Days, to the ethics.
In other words, the things that would, some would even say the dietary laws. But honestly, from my viewpoint, there's ambiguity on that in the New Testament. You say no, no, but Jesus didn't come to abolish. He came to fulfill. Right, so how does He fulfill? For example, everything having to do with sacrifice, offering, He fulfills with His death on the cross. When we celebrate Passover, we don't just celebrate it looking back to the Exodus, but looking back to the cross as well. So these things come into deeper meaning.
The moral and ethical requirements He takes to a higher level. And the New Testament also emphasizes that we find Sabbath rest in Yeshua. So my understanding is that our Jewishness is a matter of calling and will be expressed in many, many different ways in the body, some in a messianic congregation, some living among religious Jews, some in the church culture. My messianic Jewish colleagues that would differ with me here would say, no, it's not a heaven or hell issue, to get back to that question. It's not an issue of sanctions like there was a death penalty for non-observance of the Sabbath, but rather it's a matter of full obedience versus partial obedience.
It's just a matter of pleasing God more versus pleasing Him less, and that it's something that to preserve our Jewish identity and to be part of the diversity of the body, it remains our role, and it's a way to raise our children. Therefore, it's divine calling, but they wouldn't say it's heaven or hell. They wouldn't even say it's obedience versus disobedience as much as more full obedience. That's how they would look at it. So I'm at home with that.
We have a difference, but I'm at home with that. Yeah, that's pretty much everything you said is exactly what I got when I read all the scriptures. So I just want to, I'm glad you actually confirmed that, because it doesn't mean it's right, but I'm trying to know, and I hate not being sure about something on the Bible. Yeah, I love what you said, though. The fact that I said it, I give scripture for it, and I hold to it doesn't mean that it's right.
It just means that you're not wacko. You're not misreading things. And look, not everything is totally clear on every point about every issue.
The main things are absolutely clear. The tribal issues. But there are many, many other things that the best thing to do is to walk it out and honor one another and to recognize, hey, you were really burdened with this. Go with it. If it's bringing you closer to the Lord and fruits being born, and you can give scriptures for it, go for it. If you think I'm wrong, pray for me. I pray for me the same prayer that I pray for people who oppose me in the Lord, people who attack me. Right. I say, Lord, bring us all into the fullness of your truth and the fullness of your spirit so we can glorify you to the full.
So a prayer like that is a good prayer to pray. Hey, Scott, thank you for calling in. Really appreciate the conversation. It's 6-3-4 truth. Let's go to Joe in Alexandria, Virginia. Welcome to the Line of Fire. Hi, Dr. Brown. I'm a proud torchbearer and have tremendous respect for your ministry.
Thank you, sir. I have a quick question. My question is about Old Earth versus New Earth belief. So I go to a church that teaches Old Earth and believes the Earth is at least 3 billion years old because of signs of light from other stars and data, carbon data, and so forth. Dr. Brown, I'm in agreement with 95% of what my pastor and church teach, and I'm not leaving my church because of this difference of opinion. As for me, I see the Scriptures very clear. I've been a Messianic Jew as long as you. I've read the Genesis 1 text many times in different translations, and it seems very clear that there was evening, then there was morning, the first day, and so on and so on. Also, God gives Adam an age of 930 years in Chapter 5. The only problem is my pastor makes us believe who believe in the New Earth, that anybody who still believes in the New Earth is very misinformed and makes us as Christians feel very ignorant.
Would the Lord tell Moses clearly if there was another meaning? What is your viewpoint on this subject, Dr. Brown? Thanks. Again, thank you for your faithful support. You enable us to do what we're doing right now to speak to so many people on so many platforms, so thank you for that, Joe. I'm going to continue my answer on the other side of the break.
Let me start by saying this. The biggest issue here to me is how we treat one another in the Lord and think of one another in the Lord if we differ here. There are young earth creationists who talk in such a way that the moment you abandon this, if you go to old earth, that's the first step towards apostasy. You're denying the authority of scripture. There are those who hold to old earth and they say to the young earth, you make a mockery of the faith.
You make us all look bad. Instead of saying we can have a legitimate difference both by scripture and science and science over the age of the earth. Some of the most brilliant scientific minds I know are young earth and others are old earth and people deep in theology, Old Testament scholars, some young earth, some old earth. So that to me is the biggest issue.
I want to come to that and then respond directly to Genesis 1 question. Music Chronic inflammation is the greatest health threat to humanity. Infections, injuries, toxins, poor diet and chronic stress can attack your immune system and lead to chronic inflammation.
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Go to triveda.com or call 800-771-5584 or again 800-771-5584. This is how we rise up It's the Line of Fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-344-TRUTH Here again is Dr. Michael Brown Thanks again for joining us. Have you downloaded our app?
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D.R. Brown Ministries So going back to Joe and Alexandria Even in Genesis 1 the word day is used different ways It's used for the daylight It's used for a 24 hour period Or for a day and evening and morning one day And in Genesis 2 it's used to just mean when Beom means when God created I read Genesis 1 not to learn science to be honest I read it to learn about God and that's why I understand it was written and laid out in a certain schematic form and certain verbal repetition and numbers occurring a certain way It's just masterfully beautifully done And to me before you have sun, moon, stars even morning and evening have a different meaning So I don't actually read Genesis 1 to learn the science I read it to learn spiritual information about God and his ordering bringing light out of darkness bringing order out of chaos causing everything to reproduce after its own kind the mission of humanity on the earth That's how I read it personally And then I let science debate the other things Now if you The point you made about Genesis 5 That's where you can make a strong young earth argument that the genealogies are consecutive and they only go back so far Right? Which would make the earth Right 10 years 10,000 years old or you know whatever or humankind on the earth 6,000, 7,000 years You know there are other answers to that potentially But in all candor Joe You know I take issues on stands all the time I have multiple things on the radio show already today I don't divide based on scripture because I believe arguments can be made both ways And I'm not a scientist So in fact I'm about to visit We've been wanting to do this for a while But I in September visit the International Creation Research Museum Fairly new in Texas with one of my colleagues told me it's absolutely phenomenal with what's there And they are young earthers And they're brilliant scientists who are there And then I've regularly had on guests from Reasons to Believe which is older So Joe have you ever talked to your pastor or someone in leadership and said hey I've got you know I love the church I'm not going anywhere But there are fine Christians solid biblical scholars brilliant scientists who are young earthers and it just seems unnecessary to talk down to those who differ or to insult those who differ Have you had that conversation? He's so sure what he believes and I just I just figure it's a subject like the pre-rappers and the post ones They're just going to be They seem to be those two subjects which are the most dividing But just the tone But I haven't sat down Yeah they just say hey you know I'm not arguing what you believe I'm not challenging it But you know they're great biblical scholars smarter than you and me and they're great scientists smarter than you and me that are actually young earthers And if you think they're wrong it's just is it necessary to say it in that way The other question is how often does this come up? He probably preaches on it maybe once every one year or two years He just did it recently Yeah so just smile and pray and don't even think about it and say hey we don't agree on anything I respect your I respect your opinions I always wanted to get your opinion on it but that makes sense I guess it's going to be kind of a I know what your opinion is on the post and pre-trib I guess it's just something that we won't know it just seemed clear to me Yeah well that's the thing you can make an excellent case an excellent excellent case for young earth creation using the bible you can make a very very easy good case for it Is that the right way to read it the only way to read it the science way in in any clear way etcetera those are questions to ask but of course you can easily do that you can easily do that and look as the years go on things that bothered me many years ago in the local church congregation I wouldn't even think about that it's like hey whatever I got my focus I'll do what God's called me to do bless you serve you honor you and where we differ hey not a problem hey blessings to you Joe and thanks again for the support 866-34-TRUTH let's go over to Baltimore Maryland Brandon welcome to the line of fire Hi Dr. Brown thank you for all that you do I really appreciate it You're very welcome I have a quick question my brother asked me about the meaning of Yahweh or the touch of grammets a few days ago and I noticed that most English translations translate it as I am who I am Is that correct or is there any reason to think that it's anything different No, I am who I am is not Yahweh that's a shorter sentence ehiyeh asher ehiyeh I am who I am it's the same root involved it's an older form of the same root Yahweh would mean more the one who brings things into being or the one who causes things to happen that's what it would mean I am that I am ehiyeh asher ehiyeh you can hear the ehiyeh similar sounds to Yahweh so that's in the same chapter in Exodus 3 where God says that I am who I am or I am that I am and then the covenantal name that relates to that is Yahweh not just the one who is but the one who brings things into being the one who causes things to happen would be the most likely understanding of it in terms of how we understand the Hebrew alright? Thank you that helps a lot You are very welcome Brandon 866-3-4-TRUTH let's go over to Milan in Kansas City, Missouri welcome to the line of fire Hey Dr. Brown how you doing? Doing well thanks Absolutely so I have been reading whatever happened to the power of God it's time to rock the boat and have been like well first of all that book is Conviction City and like I can only read a couple chapters at a time before I'm like okay Dr. Brown pull some punches I gotta heal you know I was gripped you know whatever happened to the power of God came out in 91 and it's time to rock the boat in 93 and I was deeply gripped in writing both of those and generally speaking the degree to which God you receive something when you give it to others they receive it in that same way so yes Glad to hear it's having the desired effect Yes it's definitely doing that so in that I've been convicted to use my profession and my job as kind of ministry which is what we should always do and I have a job where I see a lot of broken men probably like 80 to 100 different broken men in a day on construction sites and I just I know God's put me there to use it to be a light but I have an issue and that is I have a like not just like a natural fear of man but like a real like crippling paralyzing phobia of talking to people about Jesus or I guess you could say I'm kind of insecure I don't walk around with like this spiritual confidence you know that like say one of my mentors does like he'll just walk in a room and tell everybody about Jesus and invite him to church and doesn't care what they think and I'm over there like shaking in my boots like what are they going to think of me you know they're going to make fun of me bully me call me a Jesus boy and I think it comes from a childhood of getting bullied I think is kind of where that root grew so I'm absolutely terrified and I start my fingers start shaking and vibrating and I almost can't see straight and the thing that's so frustrating is I study theology I read your books I'm very gifted in apologetics and understanding philosophy you know in church history but when I get into a confrontation like in everyday life it's like everything goes out the window I can't see, I can't think and it's so frustrating I'm just jumping in so I can answer you before I have to go because we're up against a hard stop here number one thank God for your heart that you want to reach out number two I'm sure you've done this but go to the Lord again and say Lord be strong out of my weakness God is strong be strong out of my weakness God has not given us the spirit of timidity but of power, love and a sound mind Lord in myself I fail in myself I fall short I very regularly start my day getting on my knees if it's an intense day and say Lord strength out of weakness I sometimes go on the pulpit to preach feeling wonderful and each step I take up I say strength out of weakness so ask God to make that real to his strength out of your weakness John Trotman one of the greatest soul winners of the last generation disciple makers he always had a fear before he witnessed someone and that reminded him to pray and lean on the Lord now what you're talking about the depth of it is very intense I would speak to my pastor spiritual leader that I'm working with and really try to get healing at that root of rejection that hits you and that fear of rejection I would do that and believe God for a breakthrough and then take until that breakthrough comes tiny incremental steps maybe just share a little bit more online you're going to get rejected online but do that or if there's any other person that works with you that's a believer just say hey could we have a conversation together where you ask me questions about my testimony knowing that others will hear or say Lord would you have someone come to me and ask me a question and then just strength and once you start I believe fears will be overcome but Lord I pray for my brother that you would set him free that you would work in his life and set him free from this oppressive fear that holds him back from doing the very things you gifted and called him to do may he be a soul winner not by his power but by yours do what we cannot do God we ask it in Jesus name we do this for others listening as well may the Lord's grace the Lord's strength manifest and as we're together friends we're making a difference on with the revolution another program powered by the Truth Network
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