The Chosen Responds to the Gay Pride Flag

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. A question for all of you friends today on the line of fire, where I serve as your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity as we are being bombarded from every angle by, quote, Pride Month, from Sesame Street to Disney to big business to you name it. I've got an honest question for you. Here's the number to call to respond 866-34-TRUTH. 866-348-7884 and we will dive into the controversy that the chosen, the TV movie series now finds itself in.

We'll get into that in-depth as fairly and graciously and constructively as we can. But here's my question first for everyone. Is it possible for me to tell someone who says I'm gay, I'm in a gay relationship, this is who I've been, I've always, this is who I am to the core of my being. This is natural for me to be gay as it is for you to be straight. Is it possible for us to tell that person I really love you, I genuinely care for you as a fellow human being, I want to do what I can to be a blessing in your life.

At the same time, I believe homosexual practice is sin and I do not accept the validity in God's sight of a same-sex relationship. Can I love that person and say that or is that very statement hateful? Or conversely, can I tell someone who identifies as trans, so a biological male who says he's a female, wants me to refer to him by a female name and refer to him as she rather than he.

And to the core of his being, he's convinced this is who he is, he's always been like this, he didn't ask for it, in fact he tried to get away from it but finally realized this is who he is, he's a man trapped in a, a woman trapped in a man's body. Can I love that person and say to them, I don't affirm your female identity, I love you, I care for you, if someone tried to hurt you, I'd stand in their way but I cannot affirm your female identity. Can I do that and walk in love at the same time?

866-3-4 truth. Now, I'm telling you 100% I can love someone and say that. Just like I can tell someone who's been raised a Muslim and to the core of their being loyalty to Allah is the most important thing on the planet and I can tell them I don't believe the Quran is the word of God, I don't believe Muhammad was a true prophet, I can say that in love. And I believe conversely that they could say to me in love or a rabbi that I interact with could tell me in love that they believe I'm deceived and I'm deceiving others, why does love require affirmation? Why does love require that I must agree with your perspective? If you say to me, I think heterosexuality is unnatural, you still love me as a person, you still care for me as a person, you still be a good neighbor. If you tell me, well I believe just built in being white there's something supremacist that people feel.

You still be my neighbor, we could still be best friends with certain viewpoints, right? But you could love me and feel bad for me because I'm white, I mean you can have that perspective, right? But someone else says, well hang on, if you say, well Jews are the cause of all the problems in the world, they can't love you and say that at the same time. Oh, that's believing something about those people, right? If you say, well all whites are evil, all blacks are evil, all this group, and they are doing evil, now believing lies about a person, it's harder to really love someone when believing lies about them. You say, well you're believing lies, you're absolutely believing lies about a gay person if you can't affirm who they are. No, I'm saying I have a very different perspective. Now, here's what's interesting. I did a Twitter poll about this over the weekend and let me just get to that poll.

Here we go. It was a question for you who identify as LGBTQ or are an ally. Is there any way I can lovingly say I believe homosexual practice is sinful or I don't affirm transgender identity?

Or do those very statements constitute hate in your eyes? And I gave four choices, so two for those that would say that they're pro-LGBTQ or allies, and again there's limited space in 25 letters total that you can use in spaces in the poll responses. So, I gave two for each, those that would say we're gay or ally, those who say we're not. So, choice number one is it's hate and I'm pro-LGBTQ. Choice number two, it's not hate, I'm pro-LGBTQ. Choice three, it's hate, I'm not LGBTQ.

Choice four, it's not hate and I'm not LGBTQ. Now, it's about 76% of those responding who were in the not-LGBTQ category, and so about 24% responding, so 76% to 24% in terms of responding, but that means almost one out of every four responding said that they were gay or gay ally, or LGBTQ, excuse me, or an ally. So, we got a good response in terms of percentage.

Since there's many people following me, I was pleased it was that many responded. Now, out of those who said I'm not LGBTQ, it was, look at this, 66.8% of the vote was them who said it's not hate compared to 9.6% who said it is hate. So, this is better than six and a half to one of those saying, hey, I'm not LGBTQ myself or pro-LGBTQ, but six and a half to one said it is not hate, you can love someone and say I believe homosexual practice is sinful, or I don't affirm transgender identity. On the flip side, it was just about six to one the other direction saying it is hate. It is hate. So, this is really, really interesting, friends, that the strong, overwhelming majority of those who said that they were LGBTQ or an ally said that just saying I believe homosexual practice is sinful, just saying that is hate, that it cannot be loving to ever say that. Or that if you say I cannot affirm your trans identity, that that in itself is not loving. So, we are put in a position, friends, where either we affirm or we are branded haters. Now, that's been the strategy from day one. I mean, I've documented it for almost 20 years now. It's been a strategy from day one, but it's not just a strategy.

Some of you listening say, Brown, you don't get it. This is not some activist strategy. This is reality.

This is my world. If you tell me that who I am essentially, when I act on those feelings and impulses, which are as natural to me as your heterosexual feelings are to you, this is someone talking to me, right? Maybe a gay person talking to me or a trans person talking to me. So, Brown, you don't get it. I didn't learn this from some activist. You are hurting me with your words. Your words are toxic. Your words are hateful. Your words are damaging. When you say that that relationship that I have, that loving relationship for 20 years with the same person, that that's not valid in God's sight, that is hate. And no matter what else you say, you're a hater. I understand that person's perspective.

I get it. No, I'm not in their shoes. I don't pretend to be in the shoes of a gay person or trans person or someone who identifies as bi. I don't pretend to be in those shoes.

I've never lived a moment in my life in those shoes. I've listened carefully. I've wept. I've read stories.

I've sat and made appointments just so people could tell me their story. I've done my best to understand. I've done my best to put myself in those shoes.

But realistically, I can't, right? I don't claim that I have that full perspective that that person has, all right? However, I can tell you this because I know me. I can tell you that I have tremendous love for those who identify as LGBTQ. You know, I'm put off by drag queens reading to toddlers.

You bet. I'm put off by some radical doctor trying to push for the chemical castration of a 10-year-old child. Yeah, I'm put off by that. I'm grieved by that. But I genuinely care about people. I genuinely love the people. I genuinely feel bad when they are hurt.

I've genuinely shed tears with them listening to their stories. God is my witness and some individuals are my witness. And God knows in prayer what I've said in private. In pain of soul, God, I don't want to hurt anyone. I know the stands that I take hurt people. I don't want to hurt people, but I have to speak the truth.

But friends, it's the same in many, many other categories. I know what I say will be perceived as hateful by some. It's not motivated at the heart of hate. I know what it is to hate like anyone else.

I know what it is to have bad attitudes towards people like anyone else. I understand it, but love speaks the truth. And love does not always affirm. And sometimes it is our job as loving followers of Jesus to tell someone, I believe that you are fundamentally wrong. Or I believe that you are fundamentally deceived. Or even though I recognize that it is as long as you can remember you've always had same-sex attractions and when you yielded to them in terms of saying this is who I am, that's when you felt, I understand that, but I still say it is not God's best.

And I still say that acting on those desires is sinful. Yes, I understand it feels like hate to many and the activists have fanded into flames. And yes, there are hateful people that are in my camp, that are on my side. There are hateful people on all sides of virtually every issue.

You're going to have fanatics and haters on all sides. At the same time, as clearly as I can say it, I love people. I care about individuals. I recognize that there are many traits in many of us that we did not ask for that are part of our essential identity and yet to act on them is sin.

To act on those impulses, desires is sin. So, love to hear from you and get your take on this as well. I may get to some other calls, but it will be later in the show, so if your call is off topic, just be prepared to hold on. But, I want to go to Jenny in Lynchburg next.

I want to unpack this with you. And then I want to get into the controversy with the chosen place in clips from Dallas Jenkins as he explains what's happening with the chosen and some really interesting clips from Megyn Kelly. The fact is, every we return, we're getting bombarded with messages about LGBTQ++ pride and it's not just a matter of tolerance.

No, no, no. It's a matter of one viewpoint prevailing to the demise of the other viewpoint. That's where the agenda's always gone. In fact, let me read to you what Ben Shapiro tweeted out.

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800-771-5584. All right. Tell you what. Let me read what Ben Shapiro said in response to a tweet from Ron Philipkowski. Ron Philipkowski said this. People have been born gay since the beginning of time. The point of pride, meaning Pride Month, is to say that they no longer feel they have to hide who they are from friends, family members, co-workers, et cetera. It's to demonstrate that we have evolved to no longer persecute or ostracize people for it.

Well, that's certainly a perspective. Whether people are born gay or not, it's their perception. They've always been this way or this is just the only way that's natural for them. Just like a left-hander versus a right-hander is just natural.

It's always felt. So that would be their perception in many cases, in most cases. And it's just saying, hey, we just who we are. We don't have to hide or be ashamed or feel guilty. Think if everyone that was left-handed had to feel guilty or everyone that was red-haired had to feel guilty or everyone that was over a certain height or under a certain height had to feel guilty. It's just natural for us. That's all it's about.

I get that perspective. Ben Shapiro replied, the point of pride is to explode the norm. That norm is the unspoken standard that undergirds Western civilization through traditional family. This was never about tolerance. It was about supplanting a norm of atomized individualism rooted in sexual identity for the old norm. That's true. While many individuals have said, hey, this is just about me being who I am and I'm accepting of everybody else.

Just let it be. Live and let live. For the activists, for the leaders, I've documented this, studied it for almost 20 years now. It's always been a matter of having to silence the voice of the religious conservatives because we are the only remaining obstacle to the full acceptance and celebration of LGBTQ plus activism on a national level.

I'm not talking about individuals, on a national level. So, early on, gay activists realized that in order to be accepted by society, they had to change the views of the professions of psychology and psychiatry and they had to change the view of the church, religion in general, but the church in particular being the vast majority of those professed in religious faith in America. So, what did psychology say? Well, it's a sickness. It's like schizophrenia.

It's a disordered condition. And what did the church say? Well, it's sin.

Sinful behavior. So, you've got to change that. Well, there was great success changing the views of the major psychological and psychiatric organizations. The two APAs, American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, beginning in 1973. And then like dominoes following all these other groups, well, if they said it, brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. And there are many who said, no, no, all we did was step back from saying it's disordered so we could study and investigate more.

and we never got to that point. Others would say, no, this is the psychological consensus, this is where we go. So, you remove that stigma now, it's nothing disordered. It's not a mental or emotional disorder or sickness. It's as natural as heterosexuality, just another expression. So, the remaining obstacle, the remaining stronghold is the church and other people of conservative religious orientation or mindset, right?

That's the obstacle. And they cannot any longer say it is sinful. So, yes, in terms of the activists, it is a matter of those who came out of the closet wanting to put others in the closet. That became clear to me the moment I did a deep dive into this in 2004, self-evident immediately.

Not because I had some supernatural prophetic insight, it's just because I put the glasses on and started reading and there it was. 866, three, four, truth. Let's go over to Lynchburg, Virginia. Jenny, welcome to the line of fire. What are your thoughts? Hi, I actually am very interested in the topic you're talking about. Nice to meet you, sir.

Hey, good to talk to you. Yeah, so what are your thoughts? Is it hateful? Is it hateful to tell someone that you don't affirm their same-sex relationship or their transgender identity? Is that hateful?

It is, it's hurtful, I should say. Because of the fact that there is a lot of good, good people out there that did not choose to be born to like their sexuality. It's like God knows who you are before you're even born and knows who you're gonna go through in your story. So if that's the case, then why can't we fix people who like the opposite sex? There are millions of people out there who are LGBTQ, continuing whatever, and they like the same sex or they're feeling they were born a different sex.

It's gotten so big now, so big now, and it's like, what do we do? We didn't ask to be born this way. We didn't ask for these things, but we love the good Lord upstairs, we pray, we follow, we worship, we repent. But why do these people who feel this way have to be sinners?

They didn't ask for this. It is hard to break up with me. I like sex, I own sex.

Right, so Jenny, yeah, let me start here. Did any of us ask to be born? Never.

No, okay. Did any of us ask to struggle with pride, or with lust, or with anger, or with grief, or with gluttony? It's just human nature. It's not human nature, but why is it?

They say that this isn't going on since like the 1800s, because that's hot time, so it's hot time. Right, right, so here's what's happened, Jenny. Throughout history, there have been deviations from the norm, throughout history, always, on every level, all right? Whatever God has established, there have been deviations from it, and because we're a fallen human race, many of those deviations are inborn.

Now, I still see no scientific evidence that anyone's born gay, and with all the activism and all the money being spent, you would have thought if there was anything conclusive, it would be shown, but it's the perception of many, right? That that's how they've always been. Okay, so bottom line, there have always been deviations from the norm, and there are things in our very fundamental nature that some of us even hate and reject and battle against, that's the fall. That's the bad news.

The good news is God sent Jesus to die for our sins, to take our place so that we could be forgiven and cleansed and free and live new lives in the Lord and really experience transformation as well. Okay, so what's happened? Well, in the ancient Greek world, you had sectors of society that celebrated, quote, man, boy, love in different ways. You've had it through history, and then you had the more normalizing of same-sex relations, certain activist mentalities in the early 1900s, and then growing out more in the 50s and 60s, saying that gay is good and should be celebrated, so that's brought with it a shift, part of the sexual revolution of the counterculture revolution of the 60s unfolding in all these different ways, and now it's activism that confronts us at every point.

I mean, here's what President Biden tweeted. LGBTQI plus Americans are defiantly and unapologetically proud, and my administration will always stand with them in the enduring struggle for freedom, justice, and equality when one group's dignity and equality threaten we all suffer. So that is the President of the United States very loudly saying this is about equality, tolerance, freedom. I say we treat everyone fairly equally, but we don't redefine marriage. We don't redefine sexuality. We don't redefine God's norms. Otherwise, it will bring disaster on the culture. Otherwise, it will bring deep cultural demise when we step away from the norms. That's why this has become such a pervasive issue. That's why we talk about it on the air on a fairly regular basis.

A million other things I'd rather talk about, but this is part of the world in which we live. So here's the word that God spoke to me late 2004, early 2005. It came together. Reach out and resist. Reach out to the people with compassion.

I'll do that as best as I can on an individual level and seek to model it through my tone and attitude. Reach out to the people with compassion. Resist the agenda with courage. And you're going to need compassion to reach out to those, Jen, as you said, who find their words hurtful, right, not hateful.

They may think they're hateful too, but certainly hurtful. And it takes courage to stand because you will get attacked in the ugliest ways and get blacklisted and penalized. Reach out to the people with compassion. Resist the agenda with courage. We come back.

We'll talk about the controversy surrounding the chosen TV series. We'll be right back. This is how we rise, oh. It's our resistance. You can't resist us. This is how we rise, oh. This is how we rise, oh. Hey friends, this is Dr. Michael Brown. I wanna invite you to join our support team.

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Here again, it's Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, welcome to the line of fire, 866-34-TRUTH. So, the Chosen TV series, movie series, crowdfunded, so launched largely with Christian money, conservative Christian money, Bible believing Christian money, series is about Jesus, the chosen. And many friends and colleagues really loved, enjoyed different episodes they've watched. I've watched it regularly.

I only watched a couple episodes. I struggle, because of my background in biblical scholarship, to be candid. I struggle with movies and presentations of Jesus for biblical subjects, just because like, oh, that's not accurate.

Oh, that's not the way, oh. So, I struggle a bit more than maybe someone else does. But I appreciate, and the couple episodes that I watched, oh, I didn't agree with that. No, put words on the mouth of Jesus, I definitely differed with, and we've talked about that.

But otherwise, I appreciate the effort that's going into this. I know that many non-believers are thinking about Jesus more, the New Testament more, because of the series. I know many Christians are edified by it, so I am not anti-chosen. If I watched every episode, maybe I'd have more to say that was negative or critical, but like I said, it's not really fair, because of my background in biblical scholarship.

And you know the saying, if you read the book, the movie's never as good as the book. Well, obviously, that's always gonna be the case with the Bible. Nonetheless, I believe that the chosen has done a lot of good for a lot of people, and has been very positive in many, many ways. So, the controversy was, now it's pride month, quote, pride month, everywhere you turn, gay pride, lesbian pride, queer pride, trans pride, et cetera. So, here's someone has a shot of a camera crew, and the cameraman has like a, not a banner, but a little flag on his camera. You know, it's a gay pride flag. So, what, the chosen is celebrating gay pride?

What's going on here? So, Dallas Jenkins made a public statement, and this is what I asked for. Dallas Jenkins, the producer of the chosen, here's what I said. Here's a simple question for the chosen.

So, on Twitter, the chosen TV, that can remove all controversy and concern. We understand that not every crew member you hire will hold to biblical values, but can you state here unequivocally that you, the producers of the chosen, reject the celebration of pride month? And then, I followed up with, for those who don't know why I asked this, it's because the chosen is now under fire because an LGBTQ pride flag was spotted on site during a recent film shoot.

We just need the chosen to say emphatically that they do not celebrate LGBTQ pride while still loving the people. All right, so, Dallas Jenkins put out a statement. He made four more points. I want to go over those points with you, so we'll let him speak for himself. It's maybe 17, 18 minute video, so these are short excerpts, but four main points.

Here's number one. The production itself, the equipment, the crew, the team, the set. I mean, we film all over the place on different sets, and we work with different vendors, and we don't have any kind of corporate policy about statements of faith or anything like that. We don't have corporate prayer on our set, and we have all kinds of employees. There's no statement of faith they're required to sign like I just said. There's no offset clauses like, you know, off the set, this is how you have to behave or anything like that.

So, strangers to the show or people online who keep saying the chosen ink is a ministry or a church or should be like one, that doesn't necessarily make it true. Our company standards and practices and my own personal calling and ministry and my personal life and how I run my business, it might not be the same as yours. Can that be okay? I mean, even if you disagree, can that be okay?

Can how we do it maybe be different from how you do it? All right, so, big company, hire lots of people. I get it, I understand. Look, when I'm on TV shows, you'll have a makeup person there, right? And, you know, some major show or something you're gonna be on, Christian TV or secular. So, you have a makeup person there. And I've done shoots for Christian TV and the person that comes in, they just hire a local person. They're not big enough to have a full-time makeup person because they don't have shows every day with multiple guests and things. So, when they do a shoot, they hire a local makeup person and many times, they're not believers, right? I've talked to them and that's how I find out. I'm interacting with them. Okay, I understand that. Let's say that you own a, you're a Christian owner of a real estate company.

You have lots and lots of agents. Not all of them are gonna be Christian. And are you gonna tell them that on social media, they can't post certain things if they work for you? Now, others would say, hey, we start today in prayer and we only hire Christians, that's fine, but I get it. I understand in Dallas Jenkins, and I think this is commendable, says, look, he's not primarily responding to social media.

He's not gonna, well, you like this, you don't like this. No, you have to do what you believe God wants you to do. Our first point, not everybody working there is Christian. Okay, I get that, I accept it, understand it. Second point.

Second important point that kind of guides some of our principles on this. Solomon built the holy temple. I mean, this is the holy temple of God. And the labor and the materials, many of them came from what's described in the Bible as pagans, pagan nations, pagan workers.

He got help. And when he asked the king, I believe, the king of Tyre, I don't remember how to pronounce it, he referenced David, that David had done the same thing. And this is the holy temple. And it was built by what the Bible describes as pagans. People, but let's maybe not use the word pagans, let's just use the word people who strongly would disagree with Solomon or David in their spiritual practice. And you think also of like Bible. I've used this term before when a Bible is printed. Do you think that the people who print the Bible, the people who deliver the Bible, are all of the same faith?

Very likely not. And so our philosophy has been that, look, if Solomon can work with people on a holy temple with people who disagree with him, then so can we. Yeah, so same thing, big company, hundreds of people.

You work with different contractors, right? And this one gets the thing out on social media and on and on and on. You're big enough, not necessarily everyone that works for your company is going to be a believer or share your values and take it a step further, it's not a church or a ministry, right? So okay, I get that, respect that, no problem with it.

Okay, point number three from Dallas Jenkins. This is another important point and one of the main reasons why I have this philosophy, why I came into the show having this philosophy because oftentimes the roles have been reversed. I've seen, it's happened both ways, but I've seen it also where Christians aren't allowed to express themselves at work or on sports teams or when bosses force their employees to wear a certain thing, put on a patch, line up for some sort of cause or resist one of their employees doing it.

And I would imagine that if you were an employee at a place that had different beliefs than you do. All right, so once again, and we just jumped in there to try to condense it. So once again, he's saying this, he's saying, I'm gonna give liberty to people. You don't know how far it would go, but I'm gonna give liberty to people. You could wear a MAGA hat, you could wear a Biden hat and be involved in production.

You can have, and he said this guy's had on this camera forever, gay pride thing. Okay, if you're hard working and working to get the product out, I get that and I respect that too. I respect that also. So I'm good with that, I'm tracking. I'll tell you where I have a major concern. And now his last point.

Number four in the list of important points. Look, here's the thing when it comes to our cast and crew and my own beliefs and philosophies. I'm not an atheist and neither is the production company an atheist, but I'm happy to work with those who are, if they are working hard for the show.

And I don't police their social media. I don't, my company won't make any kind of formal statement about atheism or speaking out against atheism, any disagreements I have with them would be discussed privately. And then the context of relationship and love, the content of my show speaks for itself.

And the content of my show may end up, of course, disagreeing with atheism. But in terms of our personal relationships on set, it's just not something that we discuss publicly. All right, now he also says, he's evangelical and conservative and he doesn't celebrate gay pride himself. Okay, so all clear on that.

He also says that he doesn't police on social media what his employees or actors, different ones, post or say. Okay, so I get that too. I get that too. And I can respect that, but here's the big concern. When you are crowdfunded by Christian, you know the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of the people giving are conservative Bible believers.

You know the vast, vast, vast percentage of your audience of those watching are conservative Bible believers, whether they're Protestant, Catholic, et cetera. You know that, all right? Then I believe there is a spiritual responsibility as a spiritual responsibility to urge major people involved with the show. I'm not talking about a cameraman.

I'm talking about major actors, major players, not to unnecessarily offend and drive people away and be tone deaf and downright nasty. You say, what are you talking about? All right, here's what I'm talking about.

Here's what I'm talking about. This is a quote from Giovanni Caro. And I believe he plays Thaddeus. So this is one of the 12 disciples. And he says, another one of the actors on the chosen here. And this is what he tweeted out. Anyone who is going to go at one of our family members for something like this is no fan of ours.

They can close the door on the way out. Love one another as I have loved you. We stand with our brother. The pride flag and a heart. So he's quoting Jesus.

Love one another as I have loved you. As he's saying, close the door behind you on the way out. Get out of here. You're no fan of ours. So if you as a Christian were surprised, offended, grieved to see on the set of the chosen, which you have been enjoying and you believe is dealing with sacred material, you were grieved over the pride flag on a camera. Okay, especially before you heard Dallas Jenkins explain anything. You saw it, they were now somehow celebrating gay pride on a set, okay, which is not the case.

But you're meeting the group as a whole as opposed to one individual expressing their views. So if you as a Christian were grieved, now something's wrong with you. Get out of here. Because we love one another, get out of here.

And then listen to what Jordan Ross said who plays Jacob, James, little James. My brother G. Cairo isn't the only one who stands by the LGBTQ members of our chosen family with various symbols. Get out of here with your hate, homophobia, and ignorance. Not very Jesus-like of you, Johnny, referring to one person who tweeted. That cannot happen if you want to minister to a Christian audience.

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I'm going to play a clip from Megyn Kelly in a moment and answer a question from an anonymous caller that doesn't want to come on the air. Just to stay on this with the chosen one more moment. I respect Dallas Jenkins saying he's not moved by opinions on social media. How can you please God and be moved by what people say?

I get it. I understand that this is not a ministry. This is a production company with a message that they're seeking to get out, a gospel-based message, even though there are obviously differences in how they're going to present things versus what's in the biblical text here and there. But otherwise, trying to get out a message about Jesus to others. But the company itself is not Christians.

They have all kinds of workers. And I respect that he, just like a Christian, should be able to wear a cross or a scripture verse on their shirt. If they're working at a secular place that doesn't agree with their views, they should have the liberty to do it. The same way, okay, gay pride flag, some of them, you know, or a shirt, they want to wear that. And they're working on a set that's largely about a Christian message.

Okay, I get that too. And I understand you're not going to tell people what they can and can't do in terms of social media. But when you have people that are supposed to be disciples of Jesus, who are playing a major role on the show, now going about tweeting out, get out of here with your hate, with your homophobia.

We love one another, so you get out of here. That's, you are now spitting on the sensibilities and the convictions and the sacred values of the very people that got you on the air, the very people that are watching you. You can't do that. If you want to be respected in the role, at least don't say things that are Bible mocking, Jesus mocking, mocking the values of believers who are simply holding to what the church has held to since the beginning. And that's where I fault Dallas Jenkins for not being clearer there, as much as I respect everything else that he said. That's where I take issue and say, you needed to repudiate those comments.

And if he's done it and I haven't seen it, well, good for him, but I'm not aware that he has. You need to repudiate those, and then you need to sit these people down and say, look, you're free to do what you want to do. But just remember, you are spitting on the sensibilities of the very people that we're trying to minister to. Is that what you want to do as part of this production? All right, let me grab a call here.

Maria in Naples, Florida. Yeah, what's your take on all this? Oh, hello. Hello, Rabbi. Pastor Brown, I'm sorry. Okay, I'm getting away from my TV. Oh yes, here's my comment.

Here's my comment. I am so grieved as to what is happening with this whole LGBT and the Christian community, and now with Dallas Jenkins. And I think we just have to remember, and I agree with everything you were saying about love, how are we coming across as believers?

I mean, it is just painful to watch and to hear. And I think a lot of this has to do with the division. And I think it's, of course, a spiritual thing where we're being so divided. Even the Christians and even among denominations, you know, the Catholics, the Protestants, even in the messianic world, the messianics are against each other. And it is a spiritual battle that we're fighting. But this thing with LGBT, I mean, that's a symptom of so many other things that are happening because yes, it's a terrible sin, but it's like we're so focused on that, you know, that there's so many people that cohabit these days. They don't get married.

We don't hear too much about that. But that's what we have. But here's the difference, though. Here's the difference, Maria. Sesame Street is not pushing people cohabiting. It's pushing LGBTQ activism. Disney is not celebrating people cohabiting. It's celebrating queer and trans identity.

And on and on and on it goes. That's why I'm talking about it because everywhere you turn, but the President of the United States is not championing cohabiting, but, quote, LGBTQ rights, meaning the right of a 10-year-old with parents, a doctor to say, yeah, we're going to put you on life-changing hormone blockers that are going to chemically castrate you, puberty blockers, and yes, that boy who's 15 can share the locker room and bathroom with a 15-year-old girl and compete in sports against her. That is everywhere we turn being pushed.

All we're doing is responding. Now, do some people do it in a hateful way? Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. Some people do it in a hateful way, and that's regrettable. But speaking the truth in love and standing where we stand is not hate. As for the divisions within the body, talk about it, that remains a chronic issue, nothing new. It's been here since New Testament times, but Jesus prays for our unity, and we need to work towards unity.

Hey, thank you for the call. Anonymous caller in Richmond, are you supporting LGBTQ activism by going to a same-sex wedding? In my view, yes. In my life, I could not do it, no matter what the relationship with the person was, because you go to a wedding to affirm and to celebrate. You don't go to a wedding if you don't believe that people should be married. You don't go to a wedding if you believe it's wrong. For example, let's say your brother, your brother-in-law, married to your own sister. You're all Christians. Well, he decides he's had it with your sister.

She doesn't look the same now that she's had these kids. He hooks up with a young gal at work. He leaves his wife, your sister, divorces her, and marries this other gal.

So it's an adulterous relationship in God's sight. And now he invites you to the wedding, because you're still a family. No, you don't go. You can't go. So in the same way, no matter how loving the people may be, how committed to each other they may be, for me to go is to be a witness, to affirm, to celebrate.

I could not do that in good conscience. Now, I'm not telling you that God could not send someone as a witness, saying, everyone knows I differ, but I just want to share the gospel with as many people as I can. If I were that family member, I wouldn't want you there if I knew that you differed. If I knew when they said we present you now, pronounce you bride and bride, or whatever the words would be, I don't say that to mock, but whatever the words would be, that if you differ with it, and they know you differ, I don't think they'd want you there. But for me, I could not go in good conscience before God, because I am a witness, I am celebrating, I am affirming by going. What I would do is make an appointment to meet with a couple privately, tell them that I love them as individuals, whatever I can do to help them, I'm here to do it, but you understand my religious biblical convictions are such, and because I can't affirm. Look, Nancy and I got married, we invited the local rabbi that we had become good friends with, and he said, it's not a Jewish wedding, I can't go.

Well, we understood that. I've been in touch with them as recently as recent years, almost 50 years later. All right, let's go to Bonnie in Clayton, North Carolina. Welcome to the Line of Fire, thanks for calling. Hey, Dr. Brown. Hey.

I'm totally heart broke. My son, he told me on Easter after everybody left that he was changing his gender to female or male, and he's been on the treatment for that for a year. And he's like 40 years old, so I mean, he's an adult, but he's a boy. Yeah, of course, he's a boy. Oh, Bonnie, let me just tell you something. He's a boy, he's a boy. He's a boy, he's a boy.

Oh, Bonnie, let me just ask you this, only because we only have a few minutes on the show, I want to make sure I talk to you. Did he, to your knowledge, struggle all his life, or is this something he's expressed more recently? I've never heard him say that he thought he was a girl, but there's been certain things since he was a little guy that have been concerning, but not like, I just thought I had the last name of three stuff.

Got it. Yeah, and Bonnie, now that, so he may have had different kinds of struggles over the years, now it's just like in the air and the culture, it's the thing to do. Okay, ask him if he would please do two things, okay, Bonnie? Ask him if he would watch a movie with you, or he would watch it in private, or watch it with you. It's called In His Image, In His Image.

And some of the testimonies to former trans people, a man and a woman, are really moving and powerful. In His Image, you can watch it on YouTube, In His Image, the movie, it's about an hour and 40 minutes, or you can go to InHisImage.movie, InHisImage.movie, all right? Ask him if he would please watch that either with you, or by himself, that's one thing. So did you get that name, In His Image, the movie?

Yes, I've heard you before, and my son came to Christ at eight years old, came in so happy, told me he was saved. I mean, I'm like torn up, I mean torn apart, you know? Well, Bonnie, it's not over. The prayer, you'll see on this video, the power of the prayers of a praying mother. So, Bonnie, that's the first thing, In His Image, see if he'll watch it either by himself or with you. Second thing, a website, sexchangeregret.com, sexchangeregret.com, jot it down, ask him to please go there and read the stories, sexchangeregret.com, and to watch the movie In His Image. Friends, everybody, please pray for Bonnie's son. Take the birth on yourself, that God would touch him from the inside out, give him real wholeness without changing the body that God gave him or trying to do the impossible, namely change from male to female. And, Bonnie, may the Lord give you grace, hope, courage. Everybody else, check out the movie. It will really edify and help and bless you, and pray with us that this message would flood the nation.