The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network.
I am broadcasting from Israel today. I will not be taking calls, but we are going to have some really rich, eye-opening, edifying content. And I'm going to play a bunch of clips to you from a wide variety of settings, from debating a Muslim, to debating a black Hebrew Israelite, to interacting with gay activists on local Charlotte, North Carolina TV, about openly gay kids being in the Boy Scouts. A wide range of clips, subjects I want to take you back to. And I want to talk about our role in the world as servants of God, as followers of Jesus, in the midst of political battles, in the midst of cultural battles, in the midst of all kinds of conflicts. How do we live these things out? So let me talk about me for a moment, my role, why we're on the air, and that will tie in with our larger subject.
Then we're going to look at the Word together, and we're going to look at some of these clips and unpack these things for you. I think you're going to be enriched and helped and blessed. By the way, if you want to connect with our ministry, if you want to find out more about my own story from LSD to PhD, if you want to know about the three R's of our ministry, revival in the church, gospel-based moral and cultural revolution in society, redemption in Israel, then take a moment, go to AskDrBrown.org.
AskDrBrown.org. Go there and just take a moment, put in your name, address, email. We'd love to be in touch with you. We'll put you in our welcome tour. You can find out more about my own story, more about our ministry, and then the thousands of free resources that we have on the website, on our different platforms to serve you, to be a blessing to you, to pour into you. We're here to strengthen you. We're here to encourage you. We're here to provide you with the weapons, to fight about spiritual weapons, to fight spiritual battles, overcoming evil with good, overcoming hatred with love, overcoming lies with truth, overcoming the flesh with the Spirit. As I said at the outset, we do not fight the way the world fights.
We do not fight with carnal weapons. So I've had the privilege of being a talking head sometimes on controversial Christian, excuse me, controversial secular TV shows. You know, I was on Tyra Banks over a decade ago when they were parading out little children.
This is historic. For the first time, little children who identify as transgender coming out on television. I was brought on as the opposing voice to raise objections to the idea of transitioning children. I was on Piers Morgan years ago when there was the Duck Dynasty controversy about homosexual issues and Piers challenged me directly. In fact, maybe we'll play that clip for you later about what did Jesus have to say about homosexuality. I was on Phil Donahue years ago opposed to my friend, debating friend, Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, along with Dr. Al Mohler, talking about who goes to heaven, who goes to hell.
The Jews need Jesus. So I've been in some of these different settings, local news, talking about controversial political issues and things like that. And my role in a setting like that is not just to be another conservative talking head. Yes, I'm white. Yes, I vote Republican for pro-life issues and things like that. But I am a registered independent and I don't identify as a white Republican American. I identify as a follower of Jesus. If that puts me on a side that some consider liberal or some consider conservative or some consider mainstream or some consider extreme, that's not my issue.
My issue is I want to do my best to follow Jesus and follow the word of God and follow the Spirit of God to do what's right, whatever camp that puts me in. And it may offend a particular group. It may offend white friends. It may offend black friends. It may offend Jewish friends. It may offend Christian friends.
My goal is to honor the Lord. And when we are here on the radio, friends, taking your calls, tackling the controversies, I'm not trying to be controversial. I'm not looking for the latest thing in the news and saying, oh, that's going to get a lot of listeners.
Oh, that's going to get a lot of clicks online. No, I want to address something because it's relevant. I want to address something because there's a need. I've told many pastors, I was been urging a nationally known pastor for years to make himself clear when it comes to subjects like same sex marriage and things like that. And he's been ambiguous in so many settings. And when I've pressed him, I said, look, it's not political. I understand we don't want to get political from the pulpit in a way that's unnecessarily divisive. We want to talk about relevant issues, but we don't want to do it in a political spirit, a partisan spirit.
I agree with that wholeheartedly. But when I pressed him, I said, it's not a political issue. It's a pastoral issue because the people in the church are dealing with these real issues in their own lives. So when I'm here on the radio with you, it's not just to be a Bible teacher. I've led ministry schools. I've taught at numerous seminaries. I've written many books on biblical subjects, commentaries on the Bible and things like that. So I love teaching the word, but I'm not here primarily as another teacher of the word.
And I thank God for the many fine teachers that are on the air. I love to preach the gospel. I've gone out of the United States in ministry over 200 times, over 160 times overseas. I preached a mass of crowds. I love preaching the gospel. But I'm not here on the radio primarily as a gospel preacher. I celebrate the fine gospel preachers that are on radio and TV and Internet preaching all around the world.
Thank God for them. And I'm not here on the air primarily as another conservative talking head. Let me give you an example. All right. Because I'm here to serve you.
And if you know what I'm serving, then you can best take advantage of it. And then when we're taking live calls, which is most days on this overseas trip, we haven't been able to as much as normal because of some technical issues. But the vast majority of time from our home studio and on the road in the States, we're taking live calls almost every day of the week.
Some of the shows are just calls. We just interact with your questions. They may be all Bible questions.
They may be all cultural questions, Israel questions. That's great. We dive into all those things. But let me give you an example of something. All right. Dennis Prager is a friend. We've never met face to face. We've talked by phone. We text each other. I've written articles differing with him on things saying, hey, we still are friends. But he said, of course, we're still friends.
You know, so we interact. Dennis is brilliant. Dennis has tremendous insight on many cultural issues. He's got a lot of insight about scripture and other things. Great respect for Christian faith. But Dennis is not a believer in Yeshua. Dennis is not a born again man. So he is still not going to come from the same perspective that I would come from. All right.
Or that you would come from as a follower of Jesus. There's going to be a different dimension to what we have to say or be the same with Ben Shapiro. We know each other. We're not friends. We know each other.
I'm closer to some folks that have worked with him closely for years. Ben's absolutely brilliant. Right.
I mean, he's massive. He's one of the most listened to people in the world right now in terms of his podcasts and his influence. Absolutely brilliant. I'll read some of his commentary and think, wow, incredible insights. And he'll be speaking at college campuses obviously.
Wow. He's nailing it. I'm so glad he's speaking on this issue, that issue. But Ben is modern Orthodox. Ben's not a believer in Jesus. He's respectful of Christians, honest Christians, works side by side with Christians, doesn't bash Christianity. But again, he's not a born again, spirit filled man. His perspective is still going to be different. For example, if you were looking for a commentary on reports of the Asbury revival, you wouldn't go to him.
You'd go to someone that had been in revival or understood revival. And that's not a slam on Ben. There's tons of stuff I learned from Ben.
He's wonderful. But I'm saying it's a different spirit. Or maybe you like maybe you're conservative and you enjoy Fox News. OK. And you like some of the commentary there. Well, there's some insightful commentary there. There's things I like, things I don't like.
Right. But there's a spirit of a lot of conservative commentary and a lot of liberal commentary that can be mean spirit, that can be condescending, that can be attacking of others. And I understand what's going on. I understand the rhetoric, but I don't find it helpful for advancing the gospel. We must be of a different spirit.
Do you hear what I'm saying? Everybody has their role. Everybody has their place within the body.
And then within the world, there are different functions that people have. For example, I could listen to a commentary. But someone on the left here I used to like on Fox News years and years ago when they had Hannity and Combs, the late Alan Combs. What I really liked is that Hannity would represent a position that in many cases I agreed with as a conservative.
In terms of my moral and ethical values. And I think, wow, he said it well. And then Alan Combs would come around and, boom, he'd destroy the thing. It's like, wow, well, let's see what Hannity is going to say.
Well, then Hannity would have his comeback. And to me, it was a great way to learn because I was hearing both sides and it was challenging me to think. When we're just in our little echo chamber, whether it's on the left or on the right, when we're just in our little echo chamber, what happens is we don't get our views challenged and we kind of say, amen. There could be an angry spirit, a condescending spirit, a nasty spirit bashed in the other side. Yeah, we like that. Well, is it Christlike?
Does it advance the gospel? Or you can be blunt or you can be clear. You can be direct. You can even rebuke.
You can speak the truth in love and you will be hated for it, but it's of a different spirit. So here's where I want to go to scripture. And this helps explain some of who we are and some of what we do. So when David volunteered to fight Goliath, everyone was like, what? He killed some boy. He was going to fight this massive soldier, giant warrior from his youth? And so Saul says, OK, fine.
And he gives himself his own armor and clothes. This is how you go out to battle. And David walks around and he goes, I can't fight this.
I'm not used to it. And we always have that saying among Christian preachers and things like that. You can't fight Goliath if you're David. You can't fight Goliath wearing Saul's armor. It doesn't work.
It does not work. David defeated Saul by being David and relying on the Lord and using the weapons that he was given. Right. Paul writes in Second Corinthians three that the weapons of our warfare are not carnal. They're not of the world, but they're mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds. That's what we seek to do here on the line of fire. We're going to pull down false ideologies. We're going to pull down strongholds of deception, but not fighting with the world's armor.
Not as another conservative talking head and not as another angry preacher. We're going to overcome evil with good to say it again. We're over overcome hatred with love, overcome lies with truth, overcome the flesh with the spirit. That's why we're here. That's how we want to serve you. That's how we want to be a blessing to you. Everybody tuning in for the first time.
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Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back to the broadcast.
This is Michael Brown delighted to be with you coming your way from Israel. Hey, a shout out of appreciation to our sponsor TriVita. Remember a generous portion of every single purchase you make with TriVita goes to support the line of fire and amplify our voice around the world. Again, I'm not taking calls today, but I am taking you back into some TV appearances, different debates I've had, just to talk about how we conduct ourselves, how we overcome the spirit of the age, not by fighting with that same spirit, with the spirit of the age. In other words, not combating flesh with flesh, but combating flesh with spirit. Not combating human anger with our own human anger, but rather with a holy indignation that will expose error.
And with all that we do, Paul exhorts us to do it with grace, that our words would be seasoned with salt. Let me say it again. You can be direct. You can be clear. You can be uncompromising. As I've said for years, we need hearts of compassion with backbones of steel, hearts of compassion, backbones of steel.
We can be absolutely clear, uncompromising, immovable, but we speak the truth in love. I want to take you back about nine years. I just rediscovered this. I completely forgot about it. Actually, just rediscovered that we had it on the Ask Dr. Brown YouTube channel, or just on our askdr.brown.org website. It was a discussion on local Charlotte, North Carolina TV.
We've lived outside of Charlotte since 2003. With a local gay activist that I'd become friendly with and we interacted face to face, he knew me. At one point we had lunch together and talked candidly.
A young man named Matt Comer, who is the editor of the local North Carolina, South Carolina gay newspaper called Q Notes. And we were having a discussion about the Boy Scouts when they would suggest you could be openly gay and in the Scouts. I want you to listen to this discussion. It's going to run for several minutes, but I want you to see I'm going to do my best to be loving towards Matt, gracious towards Matt, understanding his heart, but exposing why this is a very wrong idea. Whole new set of rules at the Boy Scouts of America effective today. The BSA will be admitting gay members.
Some people like it, some people don't. Here to discuss Dr. Michael Brown, who is radio host of the Line of Fire, also a prolific author and scholar. Welcome to the show. Thanks. Great to be with you. Thank you. And we also have joining us Matt Comer, who is the co-founder of the Inclusive Scouting Network, also editor of Q Notes, the LGBT newspaper here in Charlotte.
Welcome to both of you. This is a hot button issue. Where do you stand on the issue? I think it's a very wrong idea.
I care about every individual. I don't want anyone to feel rejected, but totally wrong idea. We don't have coed scouts. We have Boy Scouts. We have Girl Scouts for reasons people develop. They have attractions, they have interest, things like that. You have boys with boys, girls with girls to have openly homosexual members. They were perfectly welcome before. If they did not want to disclose, hey, I'm attracted to the same sex.
Perfectly welcome to serve and be fully involved. But now to say it, you got a 14 year old who's out and proud. Maybe a 12 year old boy with him trying to come into his own, understand the sexuality.
You can have attractions, you get a flirting, you can have certain friendships, all these issues. You don't need it. It's not what scouting is about. It doesn't help anything. And in fact, it's going to drive away a whole lot of kids who are now uncomfortable and parents who are uncomfortable. Why make this a sexual issue? Why can't we just have Boy Scouts?
Obviously, I disagree. I think this is a wonderful step forward for the American scouting movement. The country itself and the scouting movement has been built upon a principle of equality and liberty and inclusion. And now the Boy Scouts of America get to live up and live out the principles they've espoused in their scout oath and scout law. And really, truly live up to the promise they originally made in 1911 in their first Boy Scout handbook. And that was every American boy shall have the opportunity of becoming a good scout.
And we'll have that now. Now, Matt, you were that 14-year-old boy back in 2000, and you were dismissed from the Boy Scouts, right? I was. I came out in the spring of 2000, and I went to scout camp, and everything was what I thought was great. But of course, being young, I didn't know there was the Supreme Court case that was coming up, and that happened in June of 2000. And that fall, I started a Gay-Straight Alliance to work against bullying in my high school and for doing what I thought was a good thing to try to make a school a safer place for students like me, I was dismissed from the scouting program. All right, Michael, what do you have to say? I mean, he was a young guy.
He went through it. Yeah, well, of course, Matt knows that I care about him as an individual, and I hate the fact that anyone goes through any rejection. On the one hand, you teach bullying is bad. You don't have to teach gay is good. Kids get bullied for all kinds of reasons. They get bullied because they're fat. You don't teach fat is good. So bullying is bad.
Treat everybody nicely. That's one thing. But if a 13 or 14-year-old wants to come out, why do they need to do that in a public way that affects others? I was talking to a middle school teacher here in Charlotte, and she said it's become the fad with Glee and these other TV shows for kids to start coming out. She said a 12-year-old boy the other day came out as gay. The next day, literally, he came back and said, can I take that back?
I think I made a mistake. Why infuse sexual issues into the Boy Scouts? And for sure, Matt, you know, in 1911, when the founders talked about this, they didn't mean for an openly homosexual boy or two or three or five to be part of a scouting camp.
And even talking about morally straight, in their view, that would not include openly homosexuals. So why couldn't this be a private matter? In 1911, boy scouting was segregated by race, and it took some decades for the American scouting movement to grow past that discrimination. So this is just an ever-evolving process, and we talk about inserting sexuality into scouts. I've been working on this issue for a long time because it's something that's very dear to me.
It happened to me as a child, this discrimination I faced. And so I've seen this rhetoric of inserting sexuality into the scouts. It's the opponents to inclusion who constantly talk about sex and Boy Scout tents and sex in cabins. You know, it's not the proponents for treating youth fairly and equally.
So why is it so important? I mean, to your point, Dr. Brown, why is it so important for youth to be able to express themselves to be out publicly? You know, I know a great, wonderful scout. He's almost an Eagle Scout. He's 17 years old. He lives in Washington, D.C., and I've had the opportunity to talk to him and meet with him several times. He's not worried about sex.
He's not worried. He wants to complete his Eagle Scout award just like his big brother did. And you know what? He should be able to be honest about who he is.
If he happens to take another boy or another guy to his senior prom this coming year, that shouldn't disqualify him from receiving his Eagle Scout award. Well, here's the issue. You've got maybe two or three percent of the population. You can't compare this to race because race has nothing to do with sexual behavior or romantic attraction.
So it's a wrong comparison to start there. But here's the issue. You've got two or three percent that are now making potentially 97, 98 percent uncomfortable. You're actually going to tell me that your average 17-year-old boy is not concerned about sex. You're not concerned about, you're talking about senior prom.
Okay, you're not going to have flirtation going on. You're not going to have inappropriate type of attractions and issues and things like that. Of course, that's why you have Boy Scouts separate from Girl Scouts. In America, you do. In England, you have coed scouting. In Canada, you have coed scouting.
Would you like to see that? In several other countries, you have coed scouting. Here in America, we do have boy scouting. And it's in the Boy Scouts of America that the Scouts own survey showed that the overwhelming majority of Scout teenagers and ventures were opposed to the discriminatory policy and wanted it repealed and replaced with something more inclusive. And an overwhelming majority, over and over, parents, Scout leaders, teens, professional Scouters, they all said denying an openly gay Scout their Eagle Scout award was wrong.
It's not a matter of denying someone an award. It's a matter of a new policy saying we're going to make others uncomfortable. Let's be realistic. There's a reason you separate boys from girls.
Let's be realistic. Here's where it goes next. It is a policy with the Girl Scouts, current policy. If a boy identifies as a girl and presents as a girl, he can be a member of the Girl Scouts.
That kid needs help, but that's crazy to do. Matt, I expect that you would like to see that Eagle Scout now be able to be a Scout Master. There's a reason we don't have female Scout Masters with male boys. We do though. But that's factually wrong. We do have female Scout Masters. The fact is this is not the model.
This is not the model that we want to have going on camping. That's factually wrong. It's recently been revealed that there are thousands and thousands of abuse cases and this is without openly gay Scout Masters. If I knew there was an openly homosexual priest, I would not have them working with altar boys.
All right, I'm going to jump in here and let's just say this. Here's an article from 2021. Boy Scouts reached eight hundred fifty million dollars settlement with tens of thousands of sexual abuse victims. Tens of thousands of people who say they were sexually abused while Scouts and filed suit against the Boy Scouts of America. I've reached an eight hundred fifty million dollars settlement, the largest in a child sexual abuse case in the United States history. Hmm.
I wonder how this story discussion has played out. Hey, friends, this is Dr. Michael Brown. I want to invite you to join our support team.
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Michael Brown coming your way from Israel and not taking calls today. So I played the clip interacting with a local gay activist, Matt Comer, a younger man, maybe 30 something years younger than me, interacting with him when he was praising the Boy Scouts for now allowing openly gay boys to serve. And I said it's a mistake. The reason I then went to this report from several years after our interview about the tens of thousands of abuse cases. You're talking about boy on boy or man on boy abuse cases in the Boy Scouts was to say the last thing you want to do is now add further fuel to the fire and say you can be openly gay and serve in the Scouts or be in the Scouts. It's only going to lead to more abuse and more problems and more kids being uncomfortable.
And of course the Boy Scouts have been in terrible decline, in some cases having to file with bankruptcy, things like that. So the point is though, in my interaction, Matt knew that I cared about him. We sat and had lunch together and at a certain point he realized that I was not doing this for some political power, political gain or something like that. And he apologized to me over lunch and said he misjudged me. And tears started streaming down my cheeks. I said to him, Matt, I just want you to know the love of the Father.
I just want you to know the love of the Father. Well, he didn't know how to respond to that. And he then wrote an editorial in Q Notes where he was the editor, the gay newspaper, as I said, of the Carolinas. He wrote an editorial, a prayer for Michael Brown, basically saying he had misjudged me and he realized I was a loony.
I was a wingnut. That was the only explanation he had. He couldn't understand how I could be clearheaded, educated, biblically grounded, caring about other people and hold the conclusions I did, come to the conclusions I did.
So I must be crazy. That was his conclusion. But he couldn't call me, you know, some hateful, bigoted, politically oriented guy because that was not what I was doing and it's not who I am. We're going to be something the world can't understand. I remember years ago when Focus on the Family contacted me when I was doing some work with them and they said, Dr. Brown, there is a very liberal radio station in San Francisco.
They want a Christian to come on and explain their viewpoint. We thought you'd be the ideal person. I said, I'm in. Absolutely.
Let's do it. Well, I get on the show, I find out it's queer channel radio. So it was just liberal. And they gave me a good chance. We took some extra segment time with them and talked. And then sometime after the show, I went back and listened after I was on and they were having a debate about me because they couldn't figure me out because I was educated, because I was dogmatic in my biblical views. But I was gracious and loving and it didn't line up for them. And someone would say something defending me.
Are you defending him? No, no. And I thought, isn't that interesting?
They didn't have a category for that. Now, back to Qnotes, they allowed me to write an editorial in response where I reached out in love. If someone attacks us personally, you don't attack back personally. That's what the flesh does. That's what the world does.
If someone's ugly towards you, you don't get ugly towards them. That's what the world does. Here, let me take you into a recent debate. This was March 23rd of this year, of 2023, when I debated a fellow known as Guerrilla Hebrew Al-Hazar, his first name. So he's Hebrew-Israelite, claims to be that the 12 tribes of Israel are represented among blacks and Latinos today, that people like me are not legitimate Jews.
So we have this debate. You know, they've got these ridiculous claims, like all African-Americans are the tribe of Judah, or almost all African-Americans, or Mexico is the tribe of Issachar, or Haiti the tribe of Leon. These completely ridiculous claims.
There is not a recognized archaeologist on the planet, not a recognized historian on the planet, not a recognized linguist on the planet, not a recognized biblical scholar on the planet, who would support these ridiculous ideas. Of course, they're black Jews. Of course, they're Latino Jews. Of course, they're white Jews.
But the claims, the 12 tribe chart, completely bogus stuff. But I had had an open door for years saying, hey, if you want to have a discussion with me about these issues, let's do it. So he stepped forward. He said, let's do it. And I told the Hebrew-Israelite leaders, great, we did the debate.
And I want you to hear, I'm going to play the closing statements for you. Now, what I want you to hear is that, you know, I deal with the factual issues, but then I challenge directly the spirit of what they're doing and the hatred that it generates. And as I was reading some quotes from statements that Al-Azhar had previously made, as I was reading some of these quotes and even stuff about Hitler, he's smiling and laughing.
His face is up there as I'm talking as well. So he's affirming these things. And I'm saying, look, I'm going to come at this from a different spirit. I'm going to fight the ugliness of your spirit and the ugliness of the radical Hebrew-Israelites. I'm going to fight it not just with truth, but with love. All right, here it is, closing five-minute statement. So, again, thanks, everyone, for tuning in and bringing TV vocab for everything. And Al-Azhar, thanks for being a gentleman in the back and forth here. I appreciate it. And I encourage you to step higher. People will take your arguments more seriously if you don't raise fate, if you don't have to press these emotional buttons, because when the truth is on your side, you just don't have to do this. And I'm not going to introduce new information here in keeping with the proper format for closing statements.
A couple of things to say. I've pointed out blatant Hebrew errors thus far. And the fact that the so-called lashu and kodosh is a complete myth.
It has never existed before. It is a made-up myth. And if you can't trust people just to get the Hebrew right, how in the world are you going to trust them for everything else? Also notice that Al-Azhar is pulling quotes from the very, very same video.
He's using them tonight. And when I went back to that video, he said, well, I don't know that I necessarily hold to those things. So perhaps as we keep correcting the Hebrew and correcting these other things, his views will moderate more and more in the days ahead. And notice that not one bit of factual, genetic, literary, historical, archaeological proof that connects any of the groups to these specific 12 tribes has been offered. And in fact, you can't connect people to the specific 12 tribes, except for maybe some priestly ones and a scattered few.
You simply cannot do it. So here's my larger appeal. I know emotions are high and I know people came in with preconceived ideas already. And I asked you at the start, take them seriously. Now, here's what concerns me. February 2022, Al-Azhar is speaking after the Super Bowl or at that Sunday and said, that's how this movie ends, man.
All right. That's the future of this world. Black and Latino people ruling the world. Jesus Christ is a big, angry black man, a black man who the whites of his eyes are red. He's ready to come and kill. He wants to stomp people's brains out of their cranium. He wants to step on your people's head until your brains come out. Remember when 50 Cent said his brain come out the top like Jack in the Box? Remember, that's one of my favorite lines, right? That's what Christ is coming back to do. And on a regular basis, we get comments like this.
Here's from the tribe of Levi just a day ago. Hitler is an enemy and heathen devil like yourself, Dr. Brown. The Holocaust never happened. So stop lying to the world.
This is the junk that has to stop. It's one thing if you say I'm not a legitimate Jew. Of course I am. But that's that's secondary to me to being in Jesus, Yeshua. He's the one who forgave my sins. He's the one who cleansed me when I was a heroine shooting others to use the hippie rock drum at the age of 16. He's the one I love, whether I'm Jew, Gentile, black, white, slavery. He's my savior. He's my all in all. And he's the one that you need to know when he comes back. He's not going to be judging based on race, but he comes back.
He's going to be judging based on whether in right relationship with him or not. And the fruit that I want to produce is a fruit that generates love, not hate. It's a fruit that generates unity, not division. Just sit down together and say, hey, were there African American Jews and Hispanic Jews? Here I'm a Jew that's cast out by my own people because I'm a follower of Jesus. Well, let's work together to get the larger Jewish community to recognize that we are legitimate Jews.
And if they don't know it, God knows it. But all this stuff that produce hate, that produces unnecessary racial division. Man, if they're injustices, all this are against your people, against Latino people. Whatever I can do to be a champion for justice, stand with you. I'm here to do it because I'm not here to make enemies.
I'm here to be an ambassador of reconciliation and to say, let's get right with God through Jesus. And if you look at the comments that will come pouring in, look to see where the hate's coming from. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. Look at the fruit of the rhetoric. Look at the violence when you see the violence against Jews in America.
Sadly, at the hands sometimes and most frequently of African Americans, especially in New York, and they're tracing it back to social media rhetoric, let's all step higher. And if you can show me where I'm doing anything to cause you pain, where I'm doing anything to hurt you, where I'm doing anything to work against you, your well-being, show me and by God's grace, I will fix it because I want to stand for justice and truth. So to repeat, there has been zero proof given whatsoever that the 12 tribe chart is factual, accurate, historical. The few references that were made, Scripture, Hebrew, were wrong and easily refuted. And there was no actual proof given that Ashkenazi Jews are not legitimate Jews.
Even evidence that was cited was misunderstood and misrepresented. So I know Al-Azhar took this seriously. I know he's prepared and no way do I mean to insult you on a personal level, sir. I would not have done this debate unless I knew you'd be prepared and ready. But I encourage everyone to seek the truth and follow it wherever it leads. May God give you the courage to do it.
All right, that's the end of the closing statement. By the way, you can search for that debate on who are the legitimate children of Israel. You can search for that on the Ask Dr. Brown channel or type in Hebrew Israelite. By the way, if you have our app, Ask Dr. Brown Ministries, ASK DR Brown Ministries, download that app. Not only if you miss a broadcast, you can just click on that and listen there. All of our videos are linked there, but several thousand articles are linked there. The debates are linked there.
So it's really easy to search for that information. But listen, I am a New York Jew. I am sarcastic by nature.
All right. I cut my teeth as a boy reading Mad magazine, this old sarcastic magazine. And one of my favorite sections in Mad was Mad Snappy Answers to Stupid Questions. That's my natural fleshly nature to be like that. I'm a debater. I'm an arguer. I'm talking about by my nature.
My dad was the senior lawyer, senior law assistant working with the judges in the New York Supreme Court. It is very easy for me to fight nasty with nasty, to fight ugly with ugly, to fight. You're going to rip me. I'll rip you more. You know, we used to have in high school, you know, rank out contests where you put each other down, call each other names.
It was just unsaved kids going after each other. And I remember I came I had this clever comeback to somebody. I said, you're like a busted penny machine. You don't make any any sense. A little cut back here.
And, you know, just I could do that. But that's a flash that doesn't accomplish anything. You know, I'll see sometimes on Christian on Christian social media pages, some pastor. He posts a beautiful video, one of my favorite worship songs, a beautiful scripture, a little commentary on it. And then next thing, it's some political meme mocking some political opponent. And everybody's laughing.
Yeah, what a jerk. I think that you just mixed flesh with spirit. What good does that do? How does that help? How does that advance the gospel? How does it advance the cause of truth?
And how does it change hearts? Yeah, I want to change unrighteous laws. But along with changing unrighteous laws, we better change hearts and minds if we really want to see social, moral, gospel progress. All right, friends, we've got one more segment coming your way. I'm Paul Burnett, a board certified doctor of holistic health, and I want to introduce you to Trivita's multi collagen formula. If there was ever a message I would want the world to hear, it would be about the importance of supplementing the body with its most abundant protein known as collagen. Studies have shown multiple health benefits by supplementing with collagen. Trivita's multi collagen formula does not have just one or two types of collagen or even three, but five forms of collagen shown to support healthy tendons, ligaments, skin, hair, nails, bones, muscles, gut lining, and even the arteries and veins.
Trivita did not stop there. Each of the five forms of collagen in Trivita's multi collagen formula are hydrolyzed, which increases maximum absorption. Trivita's multi collagen formula is an easy dissolving powder that can be added to your favorite beverages and even soups in your favorite recipes. Each serving of Trivita's multi collagen formula provides nine grams of protein, is gluten free, GMO free, hormone free, and sourced from grass fed bovine, cage free chickens, and even wild caught fish.
And you can rest assure that Trivita's multi collagen formula is manufactured right here in the United States of America. To place your order for products to support your wellness goals, call 1-800-771-5584, 800-771-5584. Or online at trivita.com as a Trivita introductory offer, use promo code BROWN25 and receive a 25% discount on the products of your choice. That number again is 1-800-771-5584, 800-771-5584. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.
Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Michael Brown coming your way from Israel, not taking calls today. As we were taking some live calls from Israel a few days back, we had some technical issues. We didn't want to repeat that this week to diminish the quality of the show, so I'm coming your way from Israel. We've got some really neat live interaction from Israel that will be coming your way as the week unfolds. But I won't be taking your calls today, and line up your best calls. We'll start next week again with all kinds of live calls. We've got live interaction from Israel.
Every show this week is going to be really, really special, so do your best not to miss a minute of the line of fire. But the point I've been emphasizing today, we can't fight Goliath wearing Saul's armor. If we're David, we've got to fight with the weapons that David is familiar with and the weapons that God uses with David.
Our weapons are not carnal. We don't fight the world with the spirit of the world. We don't combat the spirit of the age with the spirit of the age. We don't fight the flesh with the flesh.
There must be something different about us. It doesn't mean compromise. It doesn't mean watering down the message, but it means speaking the truth with love.
I've told people, if you cut us, we should bleed love. Now, look, there are times when things will be confrontational. In fact, I'm going to take you back to a show where I was on Piers Morgan some years ago. Piers was interacting with the controversy Phil Robertson, Duck Dynasty, had made some statements about homosexuality.
There was controversy about it. So I got asked to be part of a panel with Ben Ferguson, a conservative white radio host, and Mark Lamont, a black liberal college professor and sometimes cultural commentator. I was asked to come on the mix here and, you know, so different ones, different backgrounds making different comments. And Piers Morgan challenges me directly at one point.
So I want you to want you to hear this. By the way, when you're a talking head on these shows, the way it generally is, you don't see anything. You're in another room in another location just with a camera on you.
It's a dark room with lights on you, so you just see the lights, the camera on you, and you've got an earpiece and you're just listening and they tell you to make it lively. You know, if you need to interrupt one another to do it. And so you've got to really listen carefully and find out when it's your moment to jump in. So the discussion gets kind of lively.
But Piers Morgan is going to challenge me directly. I'm playing this clip to say that when I talk about walking in love, when I talk about speaking the truth in love, when I talk about having grace to our words, it doesn't mean that we have to compromise. All right.
Take a listen. I hear this a lot from so-called Christian. Well, wait a minute. I hear this a lot from so-called Christians. I'm a Christian. I'm a Catholic. And I can look at the Bible and say parts of it are obviously utterly ridiculous. There is a part of the Bible that says if you as a woman are not a virgin on your wedding night, you should be stoned to death. Clearly, that is not what Mr. Robertson is espousing today because he would know that is ridiculous. There are lots of offensive things in the Bible.
But let me ask you this, sir. As a Christian man, can you point to a single public utterance by Jesus Christ, the Christ in Christianity, about gay people or about a gay lifestyle? Can you name one single thing?
I'll name three for you, Pierce. Number one, in Matthew 5, Jesus said he didn't come to abolish the Torah but to fulfill. He takes the sexual morals of the Torah to a higher level. Number two, in Matthew 15, he says all sexual acts committed outside of marriage defile the human being.
And in Matthew 19, he says marriage as God intended it is the union of one man and one woman for life. Look, Jesus did not address wife beating or heroin shooting, but we don't use that argument for silence. But in point of fact, he as a first century Jew, of course, he reinforced these things. And Pierce, I'd encourage you to restudy what Scripture says.
We should love our neighbors ourself, but that doesn't mean that we approve everything of our neighbor. But there are several problems with that interpretation. One, the New Testament absolutely does offer the words in the voice of Jesus. And he very explicitly does not talk about being gay. And even the Scripture you cited about marriage is very different than talking about being gay.
Is marriage just one man and one woman, though, sir? Let me finish. I heard everything you said.
I just want to respond to it. If you're saying that he's confirming the Old Testament, well, the Old Testament is far from clear around gay marriage or around gay acts. Are you sure about that?
If you let me finish, I'll tell you how I'm sure about it. The Book of Leviticus, according to most biblical scholars, is not about being gay. If you talk about the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, for example, it's really about being inhospitable to neighbors. It's about prostitution.
It's about many other things. Leviticus 18. Hebrew scholarship is my background.
I have a Ph.D. in Semitic languages. Leviticus 18 is quite explicit. For a man to lie with a man is contrary to what God intended.
The rectum is part of the disposal system. It's not meant for sexuality. God designed a man to be with a woman. That's pretty obvious. That's not hateful to say it. That's obvious. And really the Hebrew scriptures are clear on this, sir.
All right. I hope you see that there's no compromise in my words. That was one of the more confrontational settings and one of the ones where I wanted to make things absolutely clear in terms of what the Word says. But that's not our only message. It's not just we're going to come against this doctrine. But we've got to love people. We've got to reach out to people. In 2004, when the Holy Spirit began to speak to me and call me to be on the front lines of the culture wars, in particular focused on issues having to do with gay activism, the word that God gave me was reach out and resist. Reach out to the people with compassion. Resist the agenda with courage. Reach out to the people with compassion.
Resist the agenda with courage. So I want every gay-identified, lesbian-identified, trans-identified person that hears me to know I genuinely care for you as an individual. And I know as an individual that you have your loves and your hates and your ups and your downs and your regular life like everybody else. You have your relationships and your friendships and your goals and your ambitions like everybody else. We're all human beings. We're all created in the image of God.
We're all fallen. And yet, just like I would tell a Muslim, you need Jesus. Just as I would tell a Jewish friend, you need Jesus. Just as I would tell an atheist friend, you need Jesus. Just as I would tell a heterosexual friend, a non-believer, you need Jesus. I'm going to tell you the same thing. You need Jesus and God has a better way.
Yeah, I love you because I love you. I'm going to speak the truth. Let me give one last example of trying to be in the gospel and even in the midst of apologetics and defense of the faith. I did another debate that same week in March. This was March 20th, debating Zakir Hussain, a Muslim apologist who had challenged me for years. And we finally had the opportunity to do the debate. This is whether Muhammad is prophesied in the Bible. So that was the debate, obviously a no-win debate for them.
You know, it's hardly a debate even to have. But I want to take you into my closing statements because once again, we try to reach out with the gospel of love in the midst of speaking the truth. So biblical scholarship is my field. It's not Zakir's field. Islamic scholarship is his field.
It's not my field. I can tell you that the biblical scholarship he used was incredibly spotty, incredibly selective. And for every source he gives you, I'll give you five or ten or twenty saying something different. There is a reason why you can read many, many different English translations. And on all the key verses we looked at, there is unanimity and harmony.
Because they simply say what they say. And if there's a question about a potential manuscript that is missing a word here, you find the same truth stated elsewhere. So let me encourage you again. Read John 14 through 16 alone with God and be honest and say, God, is this speaking about Muhammad or the Holy Spirit? Now, when you conclude that it is the Holy Spirit, the only possible right conclusion, it doesn't mean Muhammad is a false prophet. It doesn't mean the Quran is false. It just means what was presented tonight is false. But it does raise questions. If that's one of the key passages that's used to point to Muhammad, and it's impossible that it could refer to him contextually, exegetically, linguistically, in any way, then you have to wonder, maybe this idea in the Quran that the Bible speaks about Muhammad, maybe it's not right. When Deuteronomy 18 is explicit that he had to be a fellow Israelite, and he had to be a great miracle worker who communed with God face to face as Moses did, and that can't possibly be Muhammad. And that's a major text that's drawn to it.
You have to question, maybe it's not accurate when the Quran tells us that the Bible speaks about Muhammad. And when you have to read all kinds of things that, this is my field and I'm sitting here thinking, I can't believe this argument's being made. This is extraordinary.
Not extraordinarily brilliant, but extraordinarily impossible. From Song of Songs and prophecies of exile and Saudi Arabia and all of this, if that's the best anyone can do, and if you have to mispronounce names, if you have to create a Muhammad which does not exist and cannot exist in Hebrew grammatically, morphologically, and then try to rhyme it with another word, you realize, wow, this is terribly weak. And then here, I just read a whole passage earlier, 15 verses without commentary, that explicitly speak of the death and resurrection of the Messiah, of his great suffering.
I don't need to put any kind of interpretation on it. So, be honest with yourselves. Be honest before God.
I want to say this candidly. As a Jewish follower of Jesus, I know what it's like to be rejected by my people because of my faith. There's a price to pay.
And some of you in becoming Muslims have been rejected by your families. There can be a price to pay for a faith. And for a Muslim to acknowledge Jesus as Messiah and Lord, that's a very, very high price to pay. But I want you to know he's infinitely worth it. And he says to us, if you save your life, you lose it. If you lose your life for my sake and the gospel, you'll find it. He is worth living for. He is worth dying for.
An eternal life in him and fellowship with God is our eternal reward. I also want to say this. When you have time after the debate, because many verses were thrown back and forth. Alright?
And Zakir has been preparing for this for a long time. I took this very seriously. And I have no desire to bash others. I have no desire to insult my Muslim friends. I have no desire to make a mockery of Mohammed or the Quran. I will make a mockery of false arguments. I will make a mockery of misinterpretation of scripture. Because these are now my sacred texts that are being abused and misinterpreted.
But please, go back. Look up the references. Look them up one at a time. Ask God for wisdom and insight.
Look up commentaries, background, textual scholars, if you need to do that. Oh, sorry. I got to jump in and cut into that closing statement.
But I hope you can hear. We were categorical. We were clear. We dealt with the evidence.
We laid things out. We made our arguments, but then reached out with love to these Muslim folks that were there, these friends that were there, wanting them to hear the gospel. So friends, as you listen to the Line of Fire radio, by God's grace, we will speak the truth in love. We will bring word and spirit together. We will tackle the hot button issues, but not with the spirit of the world, but with the spirit of the living God. Back with you tomorrow. Another program powered by the Truth Network.
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