Does God Feel Pain?

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. Hello, Brown here. I believe today's broadcast is going to be important, going to be eye-opening, edifying, encouraging, uplifting, and strengthening.

That's what we're here to do to see you healthy, thriving in God. Here's the phone number to call, and I'm going to take calls on any subject you want to talk to me about a little later in the show, as we generally do. 866-34-TRUTH, 866-348-7884. Anything you want to talk to me about, if you've seen the recent debates, we now have them up on our YouTube channel. My debate with Muslim apologist Saqir Hussain from last Monday night, a week ago Monday night in London, is on the Ask Dr. Brown YouTube channel. My debate with Sikhari leader Al-Azhar on who are the legitimate children of Israel from last Thursday night.

They're on our YouTube channel, so that's Ask Dr. Brown on YouTube. Everyone watching on YouTube, watching on Facebook now, go ahead, click like, share. Let's get this message out as widely as possible. And of course everyone listening on radio and podcast, welcome to the broadcast. So let me tell you how I came to this subject today of does God feel pain, and why it's something not just abstract, but something that I hope will be of value to you spiritually. So I had a wide open schedule in terms of today on radio. We had no guests, there are always things happening in the news, but I didn't feel there was one in particular, or an aspect of culture wars to focus on specifically. Tomorrow's Thoroughly Jewish Thursday, there's a lot to talk about, and Israel Friday, you've got questions, we've got answers.

So Wednesday is wide open, so I'm seeking the Lord last night, and I want you to understand this. I realize that the vast majority of you listening, I've never met face to face. We've never seen each other. But when we do meet, there's always a common characteristic.

It just happened recently when I was out of state, the same experience, out of the country, the same experience. I'm talking to someone who in the natural is a perfect stranger. I've never met them before, right? But they've got a big smile on their face, like the smile of an old friend.

It's happened over and over and over. And I know what they're going to say to me, Dr. Brown, I listen to you every day. So we build a rapport, we build a relationship, and even though most of you go to your own congregations and churches and things like that, you're part of a community. I feel a sacred responsibility from the Lord. I feel each time I'm talking to you, it's not just a radio show, it's not just a broadcast. We're paying money to be on the air for the privilege of ministering to you because we believe we have a message that will help you and that you in turn will help others.

So it's a sacred investment. And I'm not your pastor, I'm not pretending to take the place of a local pastor. We need local congregations and fellowships, and we're here to help strengthen pastors and leaders and provide you with resources that will be of help to your congregants. But in a sense, you are my radio congregation, right, my internet congregation. And I feel this sense of responsibility before the Lord for you. And because we're using God's money to be on the air, money that comes through God's people, I feel a sacred responsibility for the time that we have on the air. We can chat, we can small talk and get on different subjects and things like that, but overall, this is all very, very sacred to me. The time spent and ministering to you.

So I'm praying last night, Lord, what can I deposit? There's so much pain in the world, ongoing suffering, tragedy, natural disasters, human tragedy where we bring these things on. What can I speak about? Where do you want me to focus? Should we talk about why tragedies happen even to godly, righteous people?

How do we deal with that? And as I prayed last night, I really felt, no, no, come at this from a different angle today. Does God feel pain? Now, there are some theologians who talk about God's impassibility, not impossibility, but impassibility, by which they would say all references to things that we would refer to as emotions. Like God being joyful, God grieving, God being angry, God being disappointed. That those are all human descriptions of a God who never changes.

He is impassable. So, yes, we know that God doesn't change. The scripture is very clear on that in terms of his essential nature. But does his, quote, emotional state change? What we would refer to as emotions.

I believe it absolutely does. I believe that God remains unchanged in his essential nature and that there are times he is joyful and there are times he is grieving. And him being God, if Paul could say that he was sorrowful yet always rejoicing, then God could be sorrowful and rejoicing at the same time.

And we've all experienced that on different levels. So, the reason that God speaks, that the scriptures speak of God in human terms, the hand of God, the eyes of the Lord, on the one hand, that's the only language we have to convey things as human beings. But on the other hand, there is truth to these things. We are created in the image of God, in the likeness of God. We have moral attributes like God has. An animal does not have morality. When a lion kills a gazelle, it's not an immoral thing for the lion to do that because that's how the lion eats.

And it's not a moral being. An animal cannot commit murder. An animal can kill, but an animal cannot commit murder because murder is a moral act. Only human beings can commit murder. We can kill an animal to eat and survive in the wilderness.

We don't murder an animal because an animal is not a human being. So, we are created in God's image. We have the capacity to love and to hate. We have the capacity of being conscious, of reflecting. An animal, you know, a fish swimming in the sea is not thinking, hmm, lovely day today underwater here and I wonder what I'm going to do and what's the purpose of being a fish?

No, they don't have that capability. But, human beings are created in the image of God. And I believe that when it tells us, for example, in Genesis chapter 6, that God was grieved that he had made mankind, that he was legitimately grieved. That when it says it pained him in his heart, that it literally pained him in his heart. Where it says in Judges the 10th chapter, as the people of Israel repenting after falling in sin over and over and coming under judgment, they got rid of the foreign gods among them. Judges 10, 16, and serve the Lord and he could bear Israel's misery no longer.

That there is a pain in the heart of God over human sin, over human brokenness, over human suffering. Doesn't Jesus say, if you've seen me, you've seen the Father? Doesn't he say that in John 14? Doesn't it say in Hebrews 1 that he is the exact replica, to paraphrase, of the Father?

Doesn't it say in Colossians 1 that he is the very image of God? And he weeps, in Luke 19, Jesus weeps over Jerusalem. He weeps at the grave site of Lazarus. At other times he is grieved. He sighs with grief and anger. These are divine emotions being demonstrated in the life of Jesus. I really wrestled with this when I was writing my commentary on the book of Jeremiah, because there are passages in which it seems that God expresses disappointment.

Disappointment. How could he express disappointment when he knows the future before it happens? Isaiah 57 speaks of him as Shochan Ad, inhabiting eternity.

Isaiah 57, 15. He inhabits eternity. He's not surprised by anything that happens.

It doesn't catch him off guard. Before the human race was created, he knew everything that would unfold by the choices that we would make and by his intervention and working out his plan. So how is it that in the book of Jeremiah he seems to express genuine disappointment? I really meditated on it and wrestled with the text and came to this conclusion. That just as God incarnated himself in our world in Jesus, who in real time walked and lived among us, who in real time got hungry, got thirsty, needed to sleep, experienced physical pain, experienced emotional pain.

Just as God incarnated himself in Jesus, he can incarnate himself in time, meaning he can live in the present with us even though he knows the future. You say, nah, nah, it doesn't work for me. Well, let me give you this analogy. Have you ever watched a movie? Maybe your favorite movie. It's a real tearjerker. You know exactly what's going to happen, but you're weeping during the sad part. It's like, it's too emotional. I can't watch. I can't watch.

It's too intense. But you know what's coming next. But at that moment, you're able to experience that reality. Or you're watching a sports event that already happened. You know your team loses, but as they're, it's like, oh, no, it doesn't happen.

So we can do that on a certain level. We know the end of the story, but the story itself is so compelling it catches us up at the moment. I believe God, who knows everything from eternity, who knows exactly who will be saved and who will not be saved, he knows exactly what sin we will and will not commit, still can experience things in the present. So the Scripture speaks of him grieving. The Scripture speaks of him in Zephaniah 3, of rejoicing over us, of dancing over us.

I believe that these are real things. Now, I'm going to tell you why it matters, why this even matters to us in a moment, but let me read something to you. This is from the introduction to my Jeremiah commentary. And it's a quote from Basilea Schlink, founder of the Evangelical Sisterhood of Mary.

She was a courageous opponent of the Nazis. She said this, anyone who loves as much as God does cannot help suffering. Anyone who really loves God will sense that he is suffering.

Wow. Let me read it again. Anyone who loves as much as God loves. So think of that. Anyone who loves as much as God does. Think of how costly love is as a parent, as a spouse, as a friend.

Think of how costly love is. Anyone who loves as much as God does cannot help suffering. And anyone who really loves God will sense that he is suffering. Didn't God say in Isaiah 63 to Israel, in all of their affliction, he too was afflicted. Doesn't Scripture tell us that we have a great high priest, Hebrews 4? Because Jesus was tempted as we were, also in Hebrews 2, so he can feel our infirmities. He has been here.

He has done that. He has lived through it. He understands what it is to be in the midst of human weakness and pain and this frail fallen world, except he himself was perfect without sin. Therefore, we can identify with him and he can identify with us. What it means for you, and I'm going to expand on this, is whatever you're going through, you are not alone in going through it. If you're a child of God, God himself is experiencing pain with you because of your pain because that's what love does. When you start there, you realize you're not in isolation. God is also hurting. It can change your perspective.

We'll be right back. I'm Paul Burnett, a board certified doctor of holistic health, and I want to take this opportunity to talk to you about the importance of healthy blood flow and how it's enhanced by a miracle molecule known as nitric oxide. You see, blood vessels release nitric oxide, which increases blood flow known as something called vasodilation.

At TriVita, we take blood flow seriously for our members, and we've developed a nitric oxide plus supplement that has been formulated with natural ingredients designed to maximize nitric oxide production in our blood vessels, which increases blood flow. You may be wondering why you don't have as much energy as you used to. One study that I came across revealed that by the age of 40, we only produce about 50% of the nitric oxide production as compared to our 20s. And by the age of 70, the study showed that we're only producing about 15 to 25%.

I have good news. As we age, there's another way for our body to increase nitric oxide production, and that's by converting nitrates and vegetables like beetroot into nitric oxide. Bottom line, with more nitric oxide, we stimulate more blood flow to our vital organs, and we experience more energy while supporting healthy blood pressure.

TriVita's Nitric Oxide Plus has been formulated to increase nitric oxide production and blood flow at every age. To place your order for products to support your wellness goals, call 1-800-771-5584 or online at trivita.com as a TriVita introductory offer. Use promo code BROWN25 and receive a 25% discount on the products of your choice. Call 1-800-771-5584, 800-771-5584. May you live with greater wellness.

This is how we rise up. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks again to TriVita, our sponsor, helping us bring you this broadcast today. Later in the show, I've got a little TriVita story to tell you. You'll get a kick out of it.

But I'll tell you a little bit later in the show. 866-34-TRUTH, 866-34-87884. Any question on any subject you want to talk to me about, by all means, give me a call. And in a few minutes, I'm going to be going to the phone.

So be patient, and we'll get to your calls shortly. So back to this concept about the pain of God and how it can help us. If I felt that someone was completely indifferent, let's say I was hospitalized and this person promised they'd be there to visit me and to pray with me, and they never showed up. And I thought, oh, I guess they just got too busy.

You know, and the enemy starts playing with your mind, or your old mind starts racing. Well, I guess now in the hospital, I'm not that important to them. Or, oh, yeah, they had important ministry to do and neglect me, whatever. And so you feel a certain way. You feel neglected. You feel isolated. What if after a week of feeling sorry for yourself and being critical towards this other person, you get a text message, and you say it's from their friends that I am so sorry that I didn't get here.

I don't know if you heard what happened. There was a terrible accident in the vehicle we were driving in. I myself am hospitalized, but you have been on my heart day and night.

This is the first time I could get my cell phone working. I have not stopped thinking of you. I'm going to be OK, but I just want you to know I've been praying for you. I've been thinking about you. I've been carrying you in my heart.

You're going to make it. Suddenly you realize, wow, I had a completely wrong attitude towards that person. I thought they were indifferent.

They actually were trying to get here and got in an accident themselves. You know, there was a friend of mine that a rich man pledged him a substantial sum of money to help with this special outreach project he was doing and never came through with the money. And my friend told me, he goes, I'm really disappointed. This guy really let me down. He said he was going to help, and he didn't, only to come back a year later and tell me, oh, I'm so embarrassed. He got cancer, and he got so sick he just lost track of everything, chemotherapy and all of this. And when he finally got better, he realized there were many people he had neglected to contact, reached out to and immediately made things right.

My friend had wrongly judged him because of lack of information. So sometimes because we don't see God working, we don't see something tangible happening, we don't see the answer coming, we don't see the deliverance coming, we feel as if God is indifferent. But the fact is, first, because he loves us, it's not in his nature to be indifferent. And Paul, when he talks about some of the suffering he went through after all the persecutions and beatings and floggings, he then talks about his care for all the churches. He carried this burden that if they were hurting, he was hurting. If they were struggling, he felt that pain within him. How much more our God, how much more the Lord Jesus, who according to Hebrews 7, ever lives to make intercession for us. So it's important to me to know that God does care.

It's important for me to know that he's not indifferent, that he's not just sitting back idly, that if I'm in pain, that matters to him. Just like a parent who knows things are going to be all right for the kid, but the kid is still hurting, the parent hurts because the kid's hurting. Why does Jesus weep at the gravesite of Lazarus? What's his reason for weeping? He knows he's about to raise Lazarus from the dead. Why does he weep? Well, the text doesn't tell us explicitly, but what seems most obvious to me, he's not angry there about unbelief. To me, it seems he's weeping because of the pain of humanity, because of the frailty of humanity, because of grieving, because of the reality of death. Even though he knows he's about to raise Lazarus, he still weeps because he's experiencing the pain of the human race at the moment. That's how it is with our God.

And I want to take this a little further. My wife Nancy gets these tremendous insights in Scripture, tremendous insights about the things of God. And when she shares them with me, I don't mean every day, but when she shares these profound insights, they are really, really worthy, worthy of chewing on and thinking about. So one pastor's wife died, and he was talking, and he believes in healing, prays for the sick, believes in healing, but was saying that he knew that this season now of grieving his wife's loss and the questions you have, why wasn't she healed, so many millions of people praying for her and all of that, that this was something sacred for him and God, that in the world to come when there's no sickness, pain, disease, disappointment in this way, that in the world to come, he won't get to live through this, live through the pain of mourning, live through the agony of questions of why healing didn't come. So he knew it was a sacred time for him and God that he wouldn't have again in the future, right, in the world to come.

So he didn't want to speed it up. He wanted to cherish these moments that were unique in terms of requiring a certain kind of faith and trust that wouldn't be required in the eternal kingdom. Well, the insight Nancy had was not just that. It was a few years ago she shared it with me, but that this is all so special to God because he will not get to experience this with us again in the future, that in heaven or the eternal kingdom, the New Jerusalem on the earth, that he won't get to experience going through these seasons of trial with us in the same way, these seasons where we're struggling to find him and how can we relate to him. And some of you are saying, I believed. I was such a strong believer, but when I lost this loved one and this loved one and this loved one in two years, I just can't believe anymore.

Or I don't know. I mean, I prayed, I've struggled with this stronghold in my life for so many years, and I've prayed and I've cried out. It's still there, and I wonder, is God near? That your time of struggle and trying to find God and wanting to believe is not just something you won't get to experience in the world to come, but it's something that God won't get to experience in the world to come when there are no more tears or crying or sighing or pain or death or mourning. Revelation 21, 8, God makes everything new. So this is something precious from God's perspective as well, that he goes on this journey with us in a unique way now. So I want to encourage you to embrace the moment, to embrace the struggle, to embrace the upheaval, to embrace the uniqueness of the pain you feel knowing that God feels pain with you and that this is very precious to him to walk through this season with you. I personally believe in praying for the sick, believe that God's revealed will is that we can go to him for healing. I believe that no matter what we go through, hardship, persecution, loss, God is with us. Whatever the world or Satan or circumstances mean for evil, God turns for good, but that doesn't mean there's not going to be pain. That doesn't mean there's not going to be challenge.

No, for sure. Just like in the vision the man had of the two paths, here's his footsteps and here's the footsteps of Jesus walking in the life's journey, and then for a while he just sees one set of footsteps and says to God, Where were you? You left me. God says, No, that's why I picked you up and carried you.

That was only one set of footsteps. So I'm just here to encourage you, not with empty words, but with words of truth. You know, I've been in the Lord 51 years, 68 years old.

I've seen a few things. I believe overall my life has been incredibly blessed and I've suffered so much less than so many others. But you lose people close to you, you agonize, you go through seasons where you pray and pray and pray and don't see a breakthrough.

That's common to human life. But the more I walk with the Lord, the years in, years out, the more I know his goodness, the more I know his faithfulness, the more I know his nearness, the more I know that he is absolutely trustworthy, the most trustworthy being in the entire universe and one who loves deeply and cares deeply and therefore feels deeply. He's not just this impersonal God like Wizard of Oz behind a curtain barking out these commands and trying to terrify people. No, he is the God of the universe. He is the righteous judge. All humanity will stand before him and give account and there is a place of judgment and there is a place of blessing. I'm not making him into some toothless grandfather, but I am telling you he cares, he feels and he's with his people right through the valley and the trail. We come back, I'm going straight to your calls.

866-348-7884. Hey friends, Michael Brown here. You know, it seems the whole country now is talking about revival. Could it be that a fresh wave of revival is here? Friends, I've said for decades without a fresh wave of revival in the church and awakening in society, it's over for America as we know it. And that's where I wrote the book, Revival or We Die. A great awakening is our only hope. Friends, when you read this book, it won't just give you a vision of what revival can do in society, in the church, but in your own heart, in your own life, in a light of fresh fire and it ignites something in you, a hunger, a desire, a vision of what God can do through a yielded life. Revival or We Die.

Even have a whole chapter where I share intimate open prayers I've prayed to God even in recent years to ignite a fresh, a first love in me, I believe as you read it, something will be ignited within you as well. But you know, whenever revival comes, there's controversy. And that's why I wrote the Revival Answer book.

I wrote it in the midst of the Brownsboro Revival, answering the many honest questions. Is there too much emotion? What about shaking?

What about falling? What about unusual things that happen in revival? And can we really expect revival in the last days?

Will things only get worse? When you order this hardcover edition of Revival or We Die, I want to give you this book, the Revival Answer book, 300-page book. I want to give it to you absolutely free. So here's the number to call, 1-800-538-5275. That's 1-800-538-5275. Or go to AskDrBrown.org.

Just click on Shop. And when you do, you'll see the special offer. The hardcover edition of Revival or We Die, A Great Awakening, is our only hope. Along with the Revival Answer book is our free gift too when you order. One more time, the number to call, 1-800-538-5275. The time for revival is now.

This is how we rise up. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-344-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Welcome back to the Line of Fire. If you don't have our app, take a second to download it. You'll be richly blessed. Everything on the app is yours free. Hundreds, actually now thousands of videos, thousands of articles, all kinds of edifying links. Search for the subject you're interested in. You want to ask Dr. Brown?

It's four in the morning. Just get on the app, search, and you'll get your answers. So, no, I don't mean I pop on the app personally.

That'd be great if I could do that. But we've addressed so many things over all the decades. We've got the resources waiting for you. So it's ASKDearBrown. Ask Dr. Brown Ministries.

Unless you're driving in a car right now, if you can do it, go ahead and download it on Apple, Google, Android platforms, and enjoy it. Scroll down, check out everything that's there on the app, Real Messiah Jewish Outreach website, all kinds of great resources, talks with scholars, our daily broadcast. If you missed yesterday's show, just click to listen to it, all there at Ask Dr. Brown Ministries. All right, let's start off with Jeff in Dayton, Ohio. Welcome to the line of fire. I'm on the air? You're on the air, Jeff. Fascinating. Okay, I'll make this quick.

I have no anxiety about being on the radio. Well, just two of us talking on the telephone. Okay. And I hear my voice, I'm hearing some reverb, so it sounds kind of weird. Just go ahead.

So if you're talking straight into your phone, go ahead. Okay, I have a friend, and we have a friend, and I said I believe he is a Christ-rejector. I am not trying to pull up the territory of the week, you know what I'm talking about, because they have time to repent as long as they have life in their body.

He was 9-27, I get that. And she said, unless I hear him say, actually, that I am a Christ-rejector. Unless he says that phrase, she does not believe it. But here's who he is. This guy was actually being considered for two churches, but he did not get it, and I kept talking to him. He kept showing me incremental signs that he is a Christ-rejector. John 3-36, you know what that says?

Yeah, yeah. And so I just asked him. I said, one day I just had to ask him, I said, do you believe in the deity of Christ? He said no. I said, do you believe in the virgin birth? He said no.

So I kind of let that go. So we would, you know, live our lives around each other, and we were at his house, and someone there was talking about worshipping Christ, and he ran up to her angrily and pointed at her, and he said, you do not worship him, I mean, in a very angrily way. And he had an heir friend he was talking to at the gym, you know, and I called him. I said, now you're ultimately going to try to maybe direct him to Christ, right? He said no.

I don't talk about Christ anymore. He said no, no, no. He said it's all about love, all about love.

He said it's all about love. So he's more or less telling me that he's going to enter the kingdom on how he loves, which is based on works, and you know where I'm going. Yeah, so he's absolutely a Christ-rejector. He's rejected the Christ of the Bible. He's rejected the explicit testimony of Matthew, and Luke also implied in Mark and John that Jesus is virgin born.

It's explicit in Scripture. He's rejected the deity of Scripture, which is reinforced in numerous passages in the New Testament. And even if you pushed away when people worshipped Jesus on the earth, you could say, well, the Hebrew and Greek words there could just be like you bow down before a dignitary or someone powerful.

You can even put those aside. The fact of the matter is he's prayed to. Stephen prays to Jesus as he's being stoned to death in Acts 7. The book of Revelation, the very last chapter, even so come, Lord Jesus. And in the fifth chapter of the book of Revelation, everything and all creations, all creation worships God and the Lamb, so the Father and the Son. All creation worships the Lamb. And Philippians 2, every knee bows and every tongue confesses that he is Lord to the glory of the Father.

The very verse from Isaiah, the 45th chapter, that every knee will bow is to Yahweh, and here it's supplied to Jesus. So if you've got somebody that rejects the virgin birth, rejects the deity of Jesus, rejects worship of the Lord, in fact vehemently opposes it, and on top of that doesn't preach Jesus, but preaches love, that person will be damned by his own works because he will fall infinitely short of God's standards. On his very best, holiest, most pure day, he will fall infinitely short of God's standards when judged by his own works, and unless he has taken refuge in the mercy of God that comes exclusively through the cross, he is lost.

And it's that blatant. You need to pray that if he ever knew the Lord, he'll turn back, and if he never knew the Lord, that he'll be saved. But that is absolutely a Christ-rejector.

Okay, thank you. One more thing I want to add, he also said when Christ cleared the temple, he said I'm sure he had to go somewhere to think about what he did, like Christ sinned. And so he basically called Christ a sinner. Right, so there you've got one more example.

Yeah, so it's not ambiguous. Here, look at it like this. The husband comes home and notices his wife has been gone for three months, that she's cleared out all of her clothes, all of her belongings, that she has left him divorce papers, and that she is now posting pictures of her and the new relationship that she's in. Okay, the guy has to realize I've been rejected by my wife. This is not like, I wonder how she really feels. That's a good analogy, okay?

Right, so that's the reality there. May the Lord help the friend that doesn't recognize this to recognize it, and the man himself to be brought back to reality. Hey, thank you for the call, sir. Thank you. Have a great day.

You too. 866-34-TRUTH. Let's go to Benjamin in Kentucky. Welcome to the line of fire.

Hey, Dr. Brown, it's good to be on the air. I have two questions, one on topic, one off topic. Let's start on topic. Okay, you're talking about, does God feel pain? And there's a real popular worship song that says, I'm not holding you up, talking about God, and nothing I can do will let you down. How do you, you know, I've heard a lot of preaching about, you know, God accepting us and not being disappointed us and that kind of thing, but I feel like, certainly, things that we do hurt his heart. Absolutely.

I've just had that discussion about that song. Absolutely. Yeah, so the question of whether God can feel disappointment in the sense of expecting one thing and it doesn't happen, that can be debated. I gave an explanation for how, even though he knows the outcome, he knows this person's going to abandon him, he still feels the disappointment and pain of it.

So that can be debated theologically, but it cannot be debated that we can grieve him and hurt him. In that sense, we can absolutely let him down. In that sense, he can be terribly disappointed.

Not surprised, but terribly disappointed. I sat with someone the other day and this individual broke down crying, said, Dr. Brown, I've grieved the spirit, I know I've hurt God, and was just broken up over it. And that is reality, that we can grieve him, we can wound him. You better believe that there are things that we can do that bring pain to the heart of God. And again, don't worry about the theological debate of how he experiences it.

That's what I talked about the first half hour of the broadcast today. But just generally speaking, you read God getting angry with Israel. And Paul warning in 1 Corinthians 10, learn from what Israel did and don't provoke God to anger. You think we're stronger than him?

Don't try to provoke him to anger. And Paul constantly warning about the wrath of God that's coming, the wrath of God that's coming. And there's a profound passage in 1 Samuel, where a messenger of the Lord says to Eli, speaking from the Lord, I really intended, in Hebrews I surely said, this was really my plan to bless you and your offspring. But because of your wickedness, far be it from me, because those who dishonor me will be dishonored, and your offspring are going to suffer terribly because of your sin. With Saul, the same thing.

I would have made a lasting dynasty from your descendants, but because of your sin, now it's going to come through someone else. It's going to come through David. So absolutely, it tells us in the gospels that when Peter betrayed Jesus, that he was standing at a distance from him. And it tells us, you know, Luke tells us that the Lord, after he denied him the third time, that the Lord looked right at him. And then he went out and wept bitterly. You think of how Jesus is about to die for Peter, and even though Jesus knew it was coming, yeah, that wounded him, that hurt him. And there are people who not only grieve him and cause him pain in that regard, but actually walk away from him. That's the spirit, and walk away. And that's a heartbreaking tragedy, for sure. So the idea, there's nothing I can do that can let you down, false. Absolutely false and unscriptural. All right.

Yeah, that was my thought. So my second question, I've grown up Pentecostal. I am Pentecostal by experience and theology. Matthew 16, 19. I was just reading a book today.

I was loving the book, you know, on revival and prayer. But I have always heard that quoted in reference to prayer. As I've studied it out, and I love to be honest with the Scriptures, and I do believe prayer, you know, in a sense does that, but I've not read really any commentators that actually use that passage in speaking about, you know, I bind this or I loose that. So how do you feel about that passage in prayer? In context, Matthew 16 about binding, loosing, does seem to speak about church authority and decisions. So, for example, Acts 15, the Jerusalem Council, when they agree not to lay the requirements of the Law of Moses on Gentile converts and Gentile disciples.

That would be an example of a legal decree, and that would be in keeping with Jewish legal language as well. So in context, it seems to be speaking about that. Matthew 18, excommunicating someone, that God is backing what we are doing because it is in harmony with Heaven's will.

So that seems to be the most natural, in-context interpretation. However, as the pastor pointed out to me when we were flying together, sat next to each other and chatted for the first time, when you look up the words binding and loosing in the New Testament outside of those contexts, like Luke 13, the woman who has been bound by a spirit for 18 years. So she's been crippled for 18 years, and she is loosed on the Sabbath day. Or Satan bound in the book of Revelation, the 20th chapter, and then loosed at the end of the Millennial reign. That there are references to binding and loosing, so the enemy has bound someone, and now we loose that person in Jesus' name. So even if we don't get it from Matthew 16 or Matthew 18, we can get it from Luke 13. And it's not so much that we bind the devil, though he's bound in Revelation 20, as much as that he binds people and we set them free, or we bind his power.

So maybe you don't get it directly from Matthew 16 and 18, but you can get it from other parallel passages. Hey, thanks for the call. I hope that was helpful.

We'll be right back. ...and chronic stress can attack your immune system and lead to chronic inflammation. But now there's a solution you can fight this dangerous silent killer with, Nopalea, made from the super fruit of the Nepal cactus, containing a unique group of bioflavonoids clinically shown to reduce chronic inflammation. In a random double-blind placebo-controlled study, it showed a reduction of elevated at-risk C-reactive protein levels, resulting in an improvement in range of motion in the back, neck, and joints, and an overall improvement in the quality of life. Nopalea has helped thousands of people by lowering levels of chronic inflammation. So call now 800-811-9628 or go to TriVita.com. Use the promo code BROWN25 for 25% off your first order, and TriVita will give a substantial portion of your order to help support the Line of Fire radio broadcast.

Or call 800-811-9628. Let's hear what customers are saying. A couple months ago I discovered Nopalea, and I started taking it every day like they suggested, and I started to have more movement and not feel the same stiffness. It keeps me going. I don't have to take days off anymore. I don't have to wear the brace around my back.

I love Nopalea because I can go out and run with a girl that's half my age and still stay stride for stride with her, and my joints and my knees aren't bothering me is fantastic. Call now 800-811-9628 or go to TriVita.com. Use the promo code BROWN25 for 25% off your first order, or call 800-811-9628.

That's 800-811-9628. This is how we rise up. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the Line of Fire. Okay, so when I finish up here with radio, I head straight home to work in the yard with my precious bride of 47 years, Nancy. So my job, aside from handing her all the tools, because she's the landscaper, she's the hole digger, she's got these giant awls in her own weed whacker and you name it.

I don't even know most. She'll have to describe the tool to me when I'm getting it. So my job is to hand this and carry this, but then it's to be the lugger.

So we've got these 40-pound bags of things, carry them from here to here all across the yard, unload the truck with all the bags and so on. So I'm going to be doing some heavy labor, heavy lifting for probably a few hours when I get home. So as soon as the show's over, I will do what I normally do before a workout. I will take my nitric oxide and I will take my myo-healthy amino acids, and it really gives a boost. I don't mean like drinking Red Bull, not some high, but just overall there's a strengthening, there's a blood flow, oxygenation, so I'm going to do it. But I've got a little experiment now.

I've got a friend, a former professional wrestler we've worked out together, and does, I mean, massive, like bodybuilding, massive. So I gave him, I said, hey, I'm going to give you samples for free. I want you to try this. So I'm going to find out from a guy who's actively bodybuilding, the results that he gets working out.

I mean, he's watching, he works with nutritionists and all this. So we're adding this in. This is our little experiment. So it'll be a few weeks before I get a really good, solid report. Same thing I'm doing, the nitric oxide and the amino acids, the myo-health. So do the same thing I am, and here's the joy. You have all of you who are enjoying these wellness products already. Every time you drink Nopalaya, every time you take some of the vitamins or use the nitric oxide, not only are you benefiting, but remember, you're helping us take our voice and expand it to reach more people, get on more radio stations, and continue on these great stations where we are.

So not only are you helping yourself, you're helping a lot of other people. So that's the number to call, 1-800, hang on, I got the wrong number, 777-5584, 1-800-771-5584. Remember to say Dr. Brown sent you, or just go to TriVita.com and use the Brown 25 code, 25% discount, 100% of your first order goes to our radio broadcast. All right, let's go to New Jersey. Jameer, welcome to the line of fire. Good afternoon, Dr. Mike, how are you?

I'm doing great, man. Thank you for calling. You're welcome. Before I ask my question, I just wanted to thank you on exalting the Lord. I appreciate the two debates you did, and I think you did an amazing job representing the truth, and I appreciate it. Hey, can I ask you a quick question, Jameer? Yes. So as someone watching, what's your own background in terms of religiously, how you were raised, and your ethnicity and race?

So I'm African American, and I was never really brought up and taught about the biblical Messiah, Jesus, our Savior, but I just kind of started to have a desire for truth and just went to God for myself, and I was able to see just how God wasn't responsible for the confusion, and my eyes were open, and I got an opportunity to really see how Jesus is the Savior of the world. So that's just a little background on myself. Got it. All right, excellent. So here's my question for you. We understand that racial hatred is blinding, so white racial hatred towards blacks caused so much suffering in African American history.

We understand that. But racism, hatred can go in all directions. So what I've been praying about, what grieves me, in terms of the information, the facts in my debate with the Sicari leader, I mean, it's not a debate. The 12-charge chart's completely ridiculous and so on and so forth, but he had a certain audience he was after. He specifically played the race card. You know, if I would answer with, hey, the sources say this, the scripture says this, he would say, you're just saying I'm right because I'm white. So here's my question.

How do I, as a white person, when there's that level of hatred animosity, right? Again, it goes in all directions. It's just human beings. We can be guilty of that.

You look at someone's skin color and you judge them negatively. But I am so, I really want to reach these people. You know what I'm saying?

I've got a burden for Alazar himself to pray him into the kingdom, and I want to reach people. How do you overcome a bias and a hatred when it's so strong? You know what I'm saying? That just because the person delivering the goods is the wrong color, and let me say it again, this goes in all directions, right? And African Americans have been the targets of it for so many years. So I'm not feeling like a victim or anything like that. I'm saying, how do you overcome it? Do you have any thoughts as an African American yourself?

You watched the debate. Do you have any thoughts about that? Yes, that's a wonderful question. I believe we overcome it in Jesus. You know, God himself, he has poured out his Spirit on all flesh, right? So there's black people who have experienced God and know the truth. There's so many different people who are filled with the Holy Spirit, and it doesn't matter what complexion you are. Whoever has the Holy Spirit, they're going to be able to identify what the truth is.

Good word. I believe that we overcome in Jesus. It doesn't matter about anyone's complexion. I personally believe people are deceived when they believe God is filling some type of way towards a person due to their skin tone. It's like, God treated all of us.

What bothers me so much, because I'm of color, when I hear the emphasis always being on who the real Jews are. When we look at the Scripture, the good news is that God has given us eternal life, and this eternal life is found in Jesus. So Jesus should always be exhausted, and I believe for people, no matter what tone they were, if they were filled with the Holy Spirit and they were feeling, they were able to see what the truth was.

If they're not God's people, they won't have any ears to hear. So I believe you did an amazing job, Dr. Brown. Yeah, I appreciate that.

And again, my perspective, it's obvious where the truth, the error is. But you love people. You want to reach them.

You care. Look, I've been witnessing to my own Jewish people for over 50 years, and we all have our obstacles. We all have things to overcome. But it's a great word, sir, because it's the Spirit who does it. It's exalting Jesus. And that's why I was determined, no matter what came my way, I was going to reply with love.

And let's believe, I really believe that some of these very people on the street preaching full of anger and hatred, they're going to be powerful evangelists in the days ahead, and God's going to use them. So hey, thanks for the conversation. Over to your question now. Go ahead. Thank you.

Yes. Thank you for asking that. And before I'm going to ask my question, but I just want to let you know, I believe you do an amazing job representing the Lord. Every time I watch your content, you're always aligning up with Scripture.

So thank you for that. My question is on Isaiah 14. I was reading it, and what comes to mind as I'm reading it, I'm thinking about when the Lord returns, and a new kingdom is being set up, the new heaven and the new Jerusalem. And I'm just trying to get some understanding on exactly what this verse is speaking about, if you can help me. Up to 14 to, I believe, verse 2, when it speaks about maid servants, and I'm just trying to get some clarity on it.

Right. So Isaiah 14 is one of the passages that's often pointed to, to say that in the world to come, Israel or the true Jews, they'll rule over the Gentiles. So Isaiah 14, when the Lord will pardon Jacob, will again choose Israel, will settle them in their own soil. Strangers shall join them, shall cleave to the house of Jacob. For people shall take them and bring them to their homeland, and the house of Israel shall possess them as slaves and handmaids on the soil of the Lord. There shall be captors of their captors and masters to their taskmasters. So on the one hand, there is clearly some judgment here, and those that harshly treated Israel will come under judgment.

Right. However, the overall picture of the Millennial Kingdom is of Israel and the nations serving God together. So Isaiah 2, all nations streaming to Jerusalem to worship the God of Israel and learn from his ways. Isaiah 19, that Israel, Assyria, and Egypt, the three of them together, will worship God as God's people. And you even have the end of the book of Isaiah, the last chapters there, that among the peoples of the nations, some of them will be priests to God. And Malachi 1 says that a pure offering will be brought to him from all around the world.

And of course, we have the Gospel message. So somehow, it would appear that those who harshly treated Israel themselves will be subjected to hard treatment. There will be some kind of payback.

However that works out, I don't know, in terms of in the Millennial Kingdom. Was there any fulfillment when God brought the children of Israel back from Babylon? I don't think so.

I don't think it happened yet. It's still a future fulfillment. So there will be some of that that would happen. But I've talked to rabbis about it, and they said that they will serve us as we serve God. In other words, in their view, it's not something oppressive or terrible, but just like the nation of Israel served the priests and the Levites who serve God, that Israel is the priestly nation will be given to that while the other peoples serve to meet material needs. So, Jamir, perhaps that's how it plays out. Again, it's a future prophecy.

We can't be dogmatic on it. And those that want to use it for racial hatred that the Jews are going to rule over the Gentiles, or the true Israelites are going to rule over their opponents, that's not what it's about. Because the return of the Lord, he will destroy the wicked, right? And then the survivors of the nations that attacked Jerusalem will come to worship. So it could be many of them, still not righteous, will have to serve. But the picture, the ideal, is the whole world serving God together in the Millennial Kingdom. Hey, Jamir, thank you for the kind words and for the call. And let's continue to reach people with the gospel. That's why we're here.