Dr. Brown Talks with Pastor Greg Locke About Deliverance

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If you have any questions, please let us know. Thanks for listening. And they're not coming from, say, the right reacting against the left or the left reacting against the right. It's not this new conspiracy theory. In fact, it's saying maybe you weren't so crazy in questioning things.

Maybe you weren't so crazy in holding to a position that you held to. Now, when it comes to COVID and vaccines, I was not anti-vax at any point. My position was to be responsible, to get counsel from your doctor and from friends, and to ask the Lord for wisdom as to whether you should get vaccinated or not. That was my stance. So I was not anti-vax. I was not pro-vax.

In fact, I had guests on who had both positions on the air. And my feeling was this. You treat me with respect, unless you're someone who hates me, but you treat me with respect. You treat what I have to say with respect. You often listen to see if I may have wisdom from the word pertaining to a situation in your own life.

You call and write with questions. And I take that seriously. When it's something as serious as vaccination, is it going to save your life? Is it going to hurt you? Is it necessary? Is it unnecessary? Is it going to save the lives of others? And I have no expertise in the matter.

And God has not called me to stop what I'm doing and spend months researching and digging and sifting through everything. Then to me, giving you my opinion is really not helpful. If I give you my opinion about healthy eating, well, that's not my opinion. I can guarantee you for sure, if you eat healthily rather than unhealthily, it will contribute to a better life overall. That's just a given.

We understand that. I can tell you, if you text while driving versus not texting while driving, you've got a better chance of keeping your focus if you're not texting. So I don't have to be an expert on those obvious things. But something like this, where the mask mandate was right or wrong or helpful, unhelpful, I didn't give opinions whatever was required with the mask I live by. You know, whether it was on the plane, in the airport, you had no choice. If the store said you wear a mask, I wore a mask. I didn't try to get around it because that's what was being asked. Whether I thought it worked or not, whether I thought it was helping my neighbor or not, was secondary. It was the law.

So I did it. But I didn't have whole shows, pro-mask, anti-mask, because it's not my area of expertise. So I'm bringing these things up, especially if you're just tuning in today or you're a new listener, not because I was part of a pro-mask, anti-mask movement, because I was pro-vax, anti-vax, or other things like that, because I had a particular position on the origins of the virus, again, not areas of expertise, not areas that I could devote to really studying and sifting through the varied opinions. I'm simply raising these to say that what we were told one day was so sure and so definite next day we're hearing something different. And a lot of this now is coming from, quote, mainstream media or even the left, although the right had been arguing some of this for some time. All right. So here's the first article I want to talk to you about.

It is Bret Stephens, The New York Times, an opinion piece. The mask mandates did nothing. Will any lessons be learned?

This is from February 21st, so just a week ago. The mask mandates did nothing. Will any lessons be learned? And he starts off saying this. The most rigorous and comprehensive analysis of scientific studies conducted on the efficacy of masks for reducing the spread of respiratory illnesses, including COVID-19, was published late last month.

Its conclusions, said Tom Jefferson, the Oxford epidemiologist, why did I mispronounce it, who is its lead author, were unambiguous. Quote, there is just no evidence that they, masks, make any difference, he told the journalist Mary Ann Demacy. Full stop.

But wait, hold on. What about N95 masks as opposed to lower quality surgical or cloth masks? Makes no difference. None of it, said Jefferson. What about the studies that initially persuaded policymakers to impose mask mandates? They were convinced by non-randomized studies, flawed observational studies.

What about the utility of mask in conjunction with other preventative measures, such as hand hygiene, physical distancing, or air filtration? Quote, there's no evidence that many of these things make any difference. Okay, step back here. This is the New York Times reporting, so famously left-leaning liberal. This is a large-scale study done with academic rigor. And these are the conclusions. I did write an article, probably over a year ago, that surveyed evidence from all the different states, all the different countries, the ones that had heavy mask mandates, the ones that did not.

And basically, the results were the same. In other words, COVID struck people the same, where people were heavily masked and not masked. So I raised questions, if this is true, it's the only thing I really talked about, the mask mandates, if this is true, does it mean that there's something else driving us to wear these? If my dad is out saying it makes no difference, is it fear? I've said it before, if it's uncomfortable for me to wear a mask, but it will save the life of my neighbor, then I wear a mask.

That's simple, right? If I'm flying on the plane, and that was one of the times I least liked wearing a mask, and there could be long flights, so you've got everything on top of being on the plane now wearing the mask. But if I knew for a fact that I had some type of condition that could hurt the person next to me, and by wearing a mask, I could save their life, well, that's the godly thing to do, the Christian thing to do, the decent thing to do, that's loving your neighbor.

So that was not an issue to me. And churches struggled back and forth on this. On the one hand, many Christians didn't believe there was anything to the mask, and now the study comes out, they say, you see, uh-huh, I told you so, right? We knew it, we always knew it.

So the study comes out, confirms things, many of you felt like that from the start. I thought, I'm not putting this mask on, it's bogus. But then you thought, okay, if I don't, how is it gonna look to my neighbor?

If I don't, how is it gonna look to the non-believing people in my community, are they gonna think I'm selfish, are they gonna think I don't care about them, are they gonna think I'm not willing to sacrifice on their behalf? So that was the wrestling that people had between personal liberty and not wanting to set a bad example, and not knowing what worked and what didn't work. But interestingly, this is now big news, mainstream media, even left-leaning media, that the mask mandates did nothing. And this study, I'm just gonna click on the link to the study, the most rigorous and comprehensive analysis of scientific studies. So you have things called the meta-analysis, so maybe there are 50 or 100 studies that have been published, so now you're gonna analyze all the studies, those kinds of things are done. It's Cochrane Library, physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the speed of respiratory viruses, multiple academics involved with it, background objective search methods, selection criteria, just on and on, details, details, details, but you got the conclusions, they didn't do anything at all, according to this study. I just raise it to say, isn't that interesting, because those of you who believe that all along, either by common sense or based on the studies that you looked into, interesting, now here's the word saying, actually, they didn't do anything.

Okay, that was one example. Second example is this one, and this is Forbes, again, left-leaning publication, Timeline, how the COVID lab link origin story went from conspiracy theory to government debate. The US Energy Department reportedly became the second government agency, Sunday, to conclude the coronavirus probably leaked from a lab, rather than jumping from animals to humans. Naturally, a low-confidence conclusion that lends more attention to a belief that was once considered, and by some still is, to be little more than a fringe theory. In other words, COVID started in a Chinese lab.

There are now two major government organizations saying that's the most likely explanation. What? You might say, I got ridiculed for holding that. I was mocked for holding that. I was called a conspiracy theorist. I was called anti-Chinese. I was called this. I was called that, because that's what I always believed.

Now the government is saying, yeah, that's the most likely explanation, and then some, of course, is saying, no, it wasn't accidentally leaked, it was intentionally leaked, but put that aside, put that aside. I'm not one that ever had an opinion on it. What do I know about it? I'm working on Bible commentaries. I'm working on ministering to people around the world. I'm working on reaching out to the Jewish people.

I'm working on addressing the cultural agenda that's pushing on our children, and on and on. I'm no expert in this. I had no opinion on it. I did not devote time to study to it, because God didn't call me to, lead me to, or anoint me to, grace me to.

So I got no dog in this fight. All I'm saying is, isn't it interesting that those that were ridiculed and mocked, and how could you hold to this, and we were told by government leaders and higher-ups, no, no, no, this is not what happened, it did not leak from a lab, absolutely not, it couldn't happen. Now, major government organizations, and you know the evidence had to be pretty strong for them to come to this conclusion, because the line up to now has been, no, it's just accidental from animals to humans and things like that, and did not originate in a lab in China, certainly not intentionally in a lab in China. Now they say, yeah, the most likely explanation, the most likely explanation, was that it originated in a lab in China.

This is now what the government is officially saying. All I want to point out is, you may get ridiculed for a position one day, and the next day vindicated, and six months later the thing can shift again, and you've got to hold these things lightly. We don't know a lot of stuff. People talk a lot as if they know a lot, and a lot of things we simply don't know as much as we pretend to know in these other areas. Oh, they're foundations, we better know, they're things we hold to, we better be sure about, we better be absolutely sure, life and death sure about, but a lot of these other things, this one has an opinion, that one has an opinion, and over time, you find out, hey, you were not as misinformed or wrong as you thought, you're actually on the right side. All right, check out this very important word from our sponsor.

We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. So remember, 100% of your first TriVita order is donated to the line of fire. So share it with your friends, TriVita.com, use the code BROWN25 for 25% off on your first order or call 800-771-5584. Yeah, I've been telling friends, some of my friends work out a lot, I've been saying, all right, take these, tell me how you do, I want you to track it.

So we're, family members say, hey, try this, try this, see how it does, try the nopalaya, try the nitric oxide. So if you're using these and they're benefiting you, great, it's a great way for you to contribute to your own wellness and a great way to support the ministry here. Remember though, no substitute for healthy eating. Oh yeah, I had to remind you again, you're just about to eat that double cheeseburger with fries with a chocolate, you're just about to bite it. And I had to say, remember, start with healthy eating.

Yep, that's what I'm here for. 866-34-TRUTH. Okay, one more news item, one of these, are you kidding me? Seriously?

This is CBS News, but this is everywhere also. Scientists have, quote, discovered the impossible and it could change everything we know about the dawn of the universe. Because what it says, scientists finally got a glimpse of what the universe looked like more than 13 billion years ago and what they found could change everything we know about the dawn of the universe. When the first images from the James Webb Space Telescope were released last July, astronomers got their earliest look at cosmic history yet, seeing captured images of what the universe looks like billions of light years away. They expected to maybe see some, quote, tiny young baby galaxies. What they found, however, was something far greater, six massive galaxies dating back about 13.1 billion years that appeared to be just as old as the Milky Way is now, quote, these objects are more massive than anyone expected, astronomer Joe Lehha said. We've discovered galaxies as mature as our own in what was previously understood to be the dawn of the universe. All right, so whatever your views are in terms of the age of the universe is not the point. The point is, these astronomers, these scientists are saying, whoa, this changes everything we thought we knew about the origin of the universe. We could have been all wrong about what we thought. Oh, no, but hang on, I thought we were sure. I thought these were the assured findings of modern science. Now, I'm not bashing science.

I'm simply bashing the idea that we're always as sure as we think we are about some speculative matters. Think back, if you lived 50 years ago, the vehicle that you were driving was a cutting edge vehicle. There was no such thing as a cell phone. There was no such thing as internet.

There was no such thing as a PC or a tablet, let alone a smart watch. None of those things existed, but you thought we had cutting edge technology. We thought we were on top of it, and no generation has ever seen what we've seen before, and we've now learned that the scientific findings 50, 100 years ago, a lot of that was wrong because now, talking about 50 years ago, now we really know.

Now we are really up to date. 50 years goes by, it's like, oh, wow, stuff we thought was accurate and cutting edge 50 years ago, we now found out was wrong. I think 50 years from now, we might find, whoa, we were completely misinformed on this, this, this.

Now, I don't mean that this data supports young Earth, okay, in other words, that you throw out all the data, and I'm not arguing young Earth versus old Earth. My point is that the assured findings are not always that assured. How many times, I used to use this as a cop-out for healthy eating. How many times do you see some report, and we now know that eating this particular food is unhealthy.

We used to think it was healthy, now it's healthy, and then five years go by, actually, we now realize it is healthy, it's not unhealthy, and we've reversed our views. And I used to say, hey, who even knows? Well, in fact, there are certain things that are known, right? There are certain things that are self-evident. For example, there is far more nutrition in broccoli than there is in peanut M&Ms, and science is never going to come up with anything different than that. And if you never sleep, your health will be threatened, versus if you get good sleep, your health will be better, all things being equal.

I could go on and on with endless examples. Ten thousand people who smoke two packs of cigarettes a day will overall have more lung problems than ten thousand people who don't smoke two packs of cigarettes a day. Certain things are actually known, but there's a lot that we don't know, especially when it comes to speculative matters like the origins of the universe. So I'm not slamming modern science, I'm not slamming astronomers, I'm not saying that there aren't certain things that we do know, I'm not saying that everything should be questioned, and maybe the Earth really is flat, no, I'm not saying any of that. I'm simply saying that when broad dogmatic statements are made, when we really can't be dogmatic, just hold those things lightly, because there's so much that science is sure about one day, really you find out was more speculative and more based on only partial evidence.

Hey, look, if I am a judge overseeing a case, it's not a jury, so I'm the judge, I'm going to make the decision, and I've only heard part of the evidence, I might say there's no question that client is guilty, or there's no question that client is not guilty. But if there's more evidence to come, I withhold my judgment until I hear all the evidence. And then I don't know there's more evidence to come. What if I'm a scientist and I think we have all the evidence there is, only to find out there's a whole ton of evidence we don't have. So I have no question that as the years go on, God's going to surprise scientists. And I'm not saying that to mock or denigrate scientists, I'm just going to surprise scientists and those that do have hardcore anti-God attitudes, those who very much feel strongly that there's no evidence for God's work, or that intelligent design is not to be discussed, or anything questioning Darwinian evolution should be banned, etc. Or anyone questioning the status quo on various scientific consensus positions, be it climate control or anything else, or global warming, etc. That you can't question, well, okay, those that are arrogant in their position, it's good for them to be rocked.

Many of us that have become arrogant, it's good for us to be rocked. But I'm just convinced that the more we learn, the harder it's going to be to deny God's existence, the harder it's going to be to deny intelligent design, the harder it's going to be to say that there is not a clear hand guiding this. Now, this particular discovery is not one of those that I'm saying, oh, this proves intelligent design or proves the existence of God. I'm not saying that at all. All I'm saying is, come on, we look back at old science, old medicine and think, wow, that's good real life today, because we know so much more and we're doing such a better job. It's true.

But, hey, how many times do you see an ad for something on TV? You've got a condition, you know, medical condition, here are drugs to take, but they have to put the side effects on. Could cause depression, anxiety, suicide, it's like, what?

Is it really worth taking that? And obviously the condition's bad enough that, hey, to get some relief even with these risks as long as they're minor for, you know, for most people, it's kind of worth all that to say, hey, we're still trying to figure it out. We still can't simply cure a common cold. We're still struggling to come up with a cure for cancer. There's so much that we don't know just about the human body, just about the human body, let alone plumbing the depths of the earth or the depths of the oceans or the depths of the heavens. So let's walk with a little humility when we step into these things. All right. Let's just realize that the latest scientific discoveries, hey, people are learning.

People are growing. It's the same with so many other areas in this latest discovery and now the news about the mask mandates and the news about the virus, just one of these weeks, it's like, okay, don't be so dogmatic about these secondary things and don't be so sure until we have a lot more evidence. Friends, we come back, I'm going to speak with Pastor Greg Locke.

It's going to be a very, very interesting interview about a very, very interesting subject. The subject of deliverance. Can Christians have demons or all the struggles we have due to demonic activity?

I mean, how do these things actually work? You can search our website, askdrbrown.org, askdrbrown.org. Search our website for the word demon or devil or deliverance. You'll see material we have also, if you become one of our monthly supporters, one of the free online classes you get is on angels, demons, and deliverance, as well as another free audio class on spiritual warfare, rich, rich in scripture. In fact, stick around right now, I want to tell you how you can join our support team and help us spread the line of fire around the nation and then we'll be back with Pastor Greg Locke. Don't go anywhere. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks friends for joining us on the line of fire. We're going to have a very interesting conversation now with Pastor Greg Locke. He is the founding and lead pastor of Global Vision Bible Church, best-selling author of several books, including a three-book spiritual warfare series, host of the top-rated podcast On Point with Pastor Greg Locke, a man that lives in controversy pretty much day and night, I can relate to that, massive social media following.

Our first meeting was kind of an interesting one and we've stayed in touch since then. So, Pastor Locke, thanks for joining us again on the line of fire. I'm honored to be here, sir. Thanks for having me.

Sure thing. So, you wanted us to talk about a new movie that's coming out. I mentioned it at the outset of the show that I'm not criticizing or endorsing it because I haven't seen it, so it's for you to tell us about it, but what's the movie called and when does it release? It releases nationwide on Monday, March 13th and it's called Come Out in Jesus' Name and the whole premise is, there's power and authority in the name of Jesus. All right, and what do you think that this movie is going to do? What's your hope in getting this movie out?

Well, my hope is kind of double-fold. It begins, the overarching idea is how I came from strict cessationism into an understanding of the gifts and the ministry of deliverance and, you know, flowing more of the Holy Spirit. I was a, as we said in our last broadcast, when we really had the opportunity to meet a really strict cessationist amongst cessationists, and so I preached against everything that really we're watching the Holy Spirit do in our church and our ministry at this point. It's what kind of begins with how the Lord allowed me to take off the denominational lens, how the deliverance, you know, broke out in a baptismal service in our church and really my wife and I were, we were so mortified and embarrassed, but it was a great embarrassment because it showed us that we didn't know how to walk in the authority that Jesus had plainly given us, and it sent us on a quest, and we began to pray and study behind men like, you know, Derek Prince and some of the great deliverance generals of the past and study past revivals, and then the movie really shows how we came out of that into deliverance ministry, and then how the Lord, you know, put me together with Isaiah Saldivar and, you know, Alexander Pagani and the other men and women of God that were featured in the movie, and then it moved into how our church has so exploded through the ministry of deliverance, and from start to finish, my real goal and hope and aim is it's so theologically well done that number one, it takes away the hokeyness of what people consider deliverance ministry. It takes away the stupidity, if you will, and some of the acting out, as it were, and some of the emotional outbursts, and it shows this is really the ministry of Jesus, and it's still a ministry that should very much be celebrated in the local church, and so that's kind of the overarching idea of why we put the movie out.

Got it. And I remember when Isaiah and Alexander had me on their podcasts, probably over a year ago on their YouTube channels, and they said, by the way, you know, we're controversial because we believe in deliverance. So of course the question is always, well, what do you mean by that? So first let's say for sure that Jesus engages in the ministry of deliverance. He sends his disciples out to engage in the ministry of deliverance, and the book of Acts continues that pattern with demons leaving people, people being set free, and sometimes demons are associated with physical disease.

Sometimes it can be a mental torment, a spiritual oppression, et cetera. So that's clearly biblical, and I've always asked my cessationist friends, where do all the demons go? It's just that they were here. Okay, so obviously the ministry of Jesus really brought things to the surface, but did they just disappear? Did they make an agreement with the church, if you don't believe in us, we won't bother people? So obviously they're still here, and the question is, okay, what happened to the ministry of deliverance? On the other hand, over the decades, as I've been in the Lord over 51 years now, I've seen every kind of extreme associated with deliverance, including that you had literally, in some churches, brown paper bags that were in every pew so that people could come in in case they threw up, because that was a regular thing. You throw up and get delivered from demons service after service after service.

So hopefully you don't have the brown bags in the movie. So on the one hand, it's clear that we should be seeing people set free, and we can discuss for a moment, is it Christians, is it unbelievers, is it both? But you say that you want to get away from some of the hokiness or emotions, and so in your view, what are some of the dangerous extremes associated with the concept of deliverance? I think one of the most dangerous extremes is the fact that people get addicted to deliverance ministry, or they think that some superstar deliverance minister is the only person that can lay hands on them, or cast an evil spirit out of them or off of them. And so I think people, they go around looking for, if you will, the fantastical. And yeah, obviously, you know, the Bible says five times they came out with a loud voice. There are times that people are overcome with emotions, they scream, and there are times that people throw up, or they wretch, and it's not that we're... I think the problem is sometimes we can celebrate the manifestations. Do manifestations happen?

Yes. Jesus never shut them down, he didn't do it in the choir room, you know, he allowed it to happen, but he also understood that there's order, and because there's power and authority in the name of Jesus, we can control those demonic manifestations. We don't let them be a circus show. There's times that things can get very, very seemingly out of control, or maybe it looks a little bit violent, but in the movie, it's not just people screaming, throwing up, yelling, it's a systematic, you know, expositional journey through the New Testament of, this is what it looked like in the ministry of Jesus. And sometimes it was a little more fantastical than others, but for others, it's just maybe breaking off a generational curse piece, you know, just comes over you, feels like a Mack truck just kind of drove out of your chest, you've been having nightmares, those nightmares sneaks, right, you've been feeling something in your home, you know, your kids are crying because they're seeing things in the closet, you break off those curses, you cast away those demonic entities because you can cast a demon out of a house or off of a property as well as you can out of somebody's body. And so what the movie will do is, yes, it will show some moments where people are under torment and they get set free, but it will also allow people to say, you know what, sometimes, not every time, because not everything is a demon, that's another danger of deliverance ministry, but sometimes an infirmity is a spirit of infirmity.

And nobody may be praying, somebody may be praying for 30 years for a healing that they're never going to get, because healing is not what they need, deliverance is what they need, and so we come against the spirit of infirmity, and then we lay hands on the stick and they shall recover. And so I think there are a lot of people that seek the fantastical, but we have people that come to us, they just seek peace. The number one responsibility of an evil spirit, both Old and New Testament, is to take your peace.

They don't care how they do it, they just want to take your peace. And our responsibility is to say, oh no, in the name of Jesus, I command that you come forth, you lead this person, and we fill them up with the love of the Father, with the power of the Holy Spirit, perfect love cast out fear. And so it's not about screaming at people to scream out demons. Sometimes you just immerse them in the love of the Father, you speak over them the authority of the name of Jesus, and those evil spirits will depart from it.

Alright, so let me ask you a question. There's an old saying, you can't crucify a demon and you can't cast out the flesh. And we tend to go from one extreme to the other. Nothing is a demon, everything is a demon. So let's say you're a pastor, you're discipling someone, you've got someone in your church that's leading a home group or something, and they're discipling someone, and a guy newly saved and he struggled with porn in the past, are you immediately going to drive out a pornography demon, or are you going to say, hey, let's get you grounded in the word and prayer and your life surrendered to the Lord and here's how you walk these things out, and discipline, and at a certain point, say if you can't get free, there's a demon involved, is it all just discernment, is there a method? Well I think there obviously is discernment, but I think we need to understand that some people don't need deliverance, they need discipline, right, they need spiritual maturity. So once we've taught them to discipline themselves by the nature of the Scripture and wrecking themselves dead and crucify the flesh, I tell people, look, if you've done successfully and faithfully what the Bible teaches you to do, to bring your flesh in subjection, and you still have problems, something more than likely is enticing or manipulating your flesh. You know, we're drawn away on lust and enticed. And so I believe it would bear out, you know, linguistically, that yeah, our flesh is super problematic all by itself, but if you cannot get victory in your flesh, then there's an enticement that's coming from another area, from another, as it were, entity, and so we don't always just start right with demons and with deliverance, it's the people that consistently seem to not be able to get free, there's this constant lack of peace, there's this constant addiction, you know, Pastor Blanton did it this way, if you have a regular addiction, if you're addicted to something, more than likely you have company. And so it's not always that pornography is a demon. But if you've been fighting for 10, 15, 20 years and you've done everything the Bible says that you can't, more than likely you have an evil, tormenting spirit of lust that needs to be cast out.

Got it, got it. All right, so there have been, as you know, and again, we're both involved in situations where we're constantly in the middle of controversy, and some of it is real, in other words, we take stands that are controversial, we may agree with each other or not, but we take stands that are controversial, other times we're falsely accused. So I just want to put some things out for you to respond to, as you said you'd be happy to do. Does this get you engaged in a witch hunt? I remember hearing some report, this guy's calling people in his own church witches and he's going to expose them as witches, what was that about? Well, when you get involved in high levels of public spiritual warfare, obviously witches are going to come against you. People don't believe in witchcraft, and they're not really paying a whole lot of attention. And so there are times that we have had to, more so privately, but there have been public times, especially in the early days of deliverance ministry, where I'd be like, you know what, I know exactly who you are, I know what the nefarious plan is, and you need to get up and you need to get out. Now here's what people need to understand. Do we combat witchcraft?

Absolutely. A church like ours probably combats it a little bit more than others, just because we're so publicly demonstrative. But here's how I like that. We were so freshly baptized, so overnight in deliverance ministry, and so many thousands of people started showing up, just for the sake of deliverance, that we really had to, we had to figure out what we were doing. And so it's almost like when Jesus laid his hands on the blind man's eyes, he said, what do you see? Well, he had never seen before, right? So he said, I see men as trees walking.

So he saw, but there was not a full revelation of what he was seeing, so then Jesus relayed his hands on him, and he could see fully the difference between men and trees. So in the early days, I saw men as trees walking, right, and so I was trying to figure out this new level of spiritual authority and warfare that we were in, and so maybe I was a little bit more demonstrative in the early days. And so it's not that we're on a witch hunt, but I can promise you the witches hunt us out on a regular basis. There's not a service, especially our Sunday night, you know, deliverance and healing specific services where witches don't show up. And I think it's interesting, you know, I've never dressed up like a witch and went to one of their meetings pretending to be them, but we've seen a lot of witches dressed up like us and come to evangelical churches and try to be us. But to be fair, you and I both know that there's a lot of men that call themselves preachers of the Gospels that are nothing more than, you know, operating under a spirit of divination in their voodoo witch doctors, and they call themselves pastors. And so I don't think I've been on a witch hunt. I think maybe I came out a little hot out of the gate because I immediately went from, you know, calling out corrupt politics to calling out corrupt evil spirits. And deliverance ministry has so ministerially tempered me and changed me.

It's changed my preaching, it's changed my marriage, it's changed our church, the focus of our church, it's really changed everything about us. I know that's a long way around the barn. So yeah, we call out witchcraft on a regular basis. No, no, no, that's the answer. All right, hang on, we got a break. Just stick around. We have a couple more questions for you, then we'll tell folks about the movie again. Come to our conclusions, analyze everything that's been saying by the word. That's what we do.

Yes. Be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks friends for joining us as I speak with Pastor Greg Locke about the new movie on deliverance that releases March 13th. Pastor Locke, where can people see the movie?

If they go to ComeOutInJesusName.com, they can put in their address, their city, their town, whatever zip code, and it'll pop up. It's in 2,000 theaters all over America, so more than likely if they live close to a big town, there's going to be one there. So this is coming out on a blast in movie theaters. It's not just, hey, come to your church and watch it. Right, yeah, it's 2,000 movie theaters all over America.

It's amazing. And then, at the end of the 13th, one of the most unusual things is Fathom is actually allowing us, when the credits go and it fades to black, I actually come up and for 30 minutes I have a full live talk about whatever I want to, and so I'm going to give the Gospel and do kind of a Derek Prince-style mass deliverance, pronunciation of witchcraft, repentance, forgiving people, and have a deliverance session in every single one of the movie theaters live for 30 minutes. That is something I would love to see in the theater. So just a couple more questions I wanted to ask you, but everything you said thus far in terms of how you retreat things, how you process things, unless God just gives instant discernment on what you're dealing with, those are the same things I've done over the years, and I started telling people last year, this is the big new subject, deliverance is suddenly brought back in front of the church so it can be powerful, wonderful, and then it can get weird quickly.

I mean, I've just watched it, so that's one of those things that needs wisdom. And of course, this Derek Prince book, They Shall Expell Demons, just kind of scripture, scripture, scripture, and then practical experience. I was teaching in a ministry school, and a list was put together of hot topics that they wanted me to address, and the top of the list was demons and deliverance.

So this is something that's out there. I encourage everyone, look at the word as if you didn't know anything, and then ask, what would you expect to see in our ministry today? What about, let's say there's a child with a condition you're convinced is demonic in its origin. Let's say it looks like epileptic seizures, but they're not actually lesions on the brain. This is demonic, just like the child in Mark 9 and the parallels in the Gospel. Now you're trying to drive a demon out of a child.

What if nothing happens? I mean, isn't that destructive to that child, and now you're telling him you're full of the devil? I mean, isn't that kind of a scary thing, and so that's gonna maybe hurt them more than help them? Well, I think we need to understand the pattern of Jesus. You know, of course, deliverance ministry was a third of what he did.

It's kind of the number one thing he did at every synagogue and every town that he went to. Jesus, in his wisdom, never dealt with a child unless he had at least permission from one of the parents. And so I think you obviously can't go around the parents, and here's what I tell parents. Look, I'm not saying your child is demonized. Of course, we use the whole word possessed, and we think it means ownership. People can be afflicted, oppressed, and attacked by demons without being possessed by them. And I say, look, I'm not trying to tell you to get off medication. I'm not telling you your kid has a demon.

I'm not gonna tell you any of that. But let me ask you, can I approach this as a spiritual issue? Will you allow me to approach this not as just a mental deficiency? Will you allow me to approach this as a supernatural problem and deal with it in a deliverance-related manner? And I think that can take the scariness out of it. If the parents are in there, they give permission, and we just start to deal—there's a different way you deal with children than you deal with adults. But once you really get them to understand, okay, look, Jesus is gonna protect you, the Holy Spirit is in this room, it's okay, it doesn't have to be a jump around screen, bust windows out, head tilting around type stuff that we see in Hollywood. So there is a different way that you handle it. But I think if you get permission to handle it and approach it on the front end, can I approach this from a spiritual standpoint?

And if it's not what it is, then we'll go to Plan B, and we'll get you some help. Got it, got it. All right. So, last question.

Now, you can go on for an hour, but I need, like, a minute, two-minute max kind of answer. Can Christians be demon-possessed, or is that even a wrong way to phrase the question? It is a wrong way to phrase the question. You know, I mean, it's an unfortunate—you know, possession is an unfortunate translation, because we think ownership automatically, but demonized, of course, is the Greek word of the closest, you know, that we can get to it. And so, I mean, people can be oppressed by demonic affliction. The Holy Spirit lives in our spirit, right? He lives in our temple.

But the temple had a courtyard that even a dog could walk through. And our flesh, you know, dwells no good thing. There's murder in our flesh, there's witchcraft in our flesh, and so to think that a demon cannot occupy an unsurrendered area of our life to Jesus is really foolish. Because the Bible says that we can have a spirit of heaviness. The Bible says that there's no spirit of fear that God has given His children, but there is a spirit of fear amongst His children. And so we have to understand that there's spirits of infirmity. And so yeah, they can attack our mind, they can attack our marriage, our body, they can give us these intrusive thoughts, so no, a Christian cannot be possessed, but they most assuredly, a hundred percent, can be afflicted, oppressed, and their flesh can be absolutely enticed by demonic activity. Yeah, and when I've answered that question, it's very similar to what you said, and I appreciate the answer again.

I didn't know how you were going to answer any of these questions, you said, hey, come on and go ahead and answer, so you'll be happy to do it. So, I've just said, listen, the demon is somewhere where he doesn't belong, where it's in your house, in your mind, in your yard, in your body, he's somewhere he doesn't belong, when we say get out, he's got to leave. And that's the key thing. And you have a master's degree in revival history, and obviously a passion of mine for decades has been the subject of revival, something I've lived for 24-7. I've been saying that all over America, God is moving, the first waves of revival have already hit.

I was saying this before Asbury was in the news, etc. When you say that your church really exploded, and again, you could give me hours of testimony on this, but just in a minute, when you specially hit on the subject of deliverance, what do you mean by exploded? What's actually happened? Well, it really started happening during the COVID era, I mean, you know, we've always had kind of a big controversial platform, but the Lord began to shift things, and so I know it's not all about crowds, but revival does draw crowds, it's very Brownsville-ish, if you will. And so, for example, we're in a 3,000-seat tent, we outgrew a 300-seat auditorium, and we baptized 7,500 converts, 5,000 nearly of which were before deliverance ministry ever broke out. And so now we're seeing people get out of wheelchairs, I mean, it's not something we're live-streaming on that, right, we're seeing people get right with God, there's such a spirit of repentance, such a spirit of humility, the worship, my preaching is much more convictional, you know, I went from being known as a Christian nationalist to being known as a man that stands up and says, okay, it's time to put on the arm of God, we gotta push back, we gotta fight back against the real darkness, against the real problems. And so all of that to say, we are watching a spirit of humility in our church, in me, like we've never imagined, and people literally are flying from around the world to experience one service.

Well, that's wonderful to hear, it's what I expect to be seeing all over America, the needs are great, but God's grace is greater. Hey, listen, let's stay in touch, keep comparing notes, one of these days we'll meet face to face. Yes, sir. All right, God bless, again, Come Out in Jesus' Name releases on March 13th in 2,000 theaters across America. I'm eager to see it, brother, God bless you. God bless you, my friend, bye-bye.

Bye-bye. All right, hey, go see the movie, go see the movie, and in terms of the answers that were given, those are things I hold to myself in many, many ways, I would say a lot of it the same way. So I'm not there when it's been fleshed out, worked out, but just in terms of what we discussed, yeah, a lot of that is what I believe. All right, I got a great email the other day, I'm going to share more in detail, I have permission to share it in full, I'm going to put it in writing and an article and share it. From someone that I knew as a, quote, progressive Christian who attacked me, wrote regularly on an atheist website as a progressive Christian, attacking me, attacking my views on the Bible and sexuality, et cetera, and contacts me the other day through the ministry saying, hey, I just wanted you to know that's not who I am anymore, I can't relate to that person, and I was going through deinstruction, I started to ask deeper questions, and now I'm committed, faithful Christian, biblical view of sexuality, and I was just thrilled to hear that. My new book, in fact I'm about to cite a bunch more copies we're going to send out, so this is the last couple days that you can still get the signed, numbered copy for a special gift to our ministry. Why so many Christians have left the faith, responded to the deconstructionist movement with unshakable, timeless truth. I'd love to get this in your hands, I believe it's going to be a life changer when you read it. The content will take you through all the major reasons why people are leaving the Lord, young and old, why they're falling, whether they were truly saved or not, we can debate that another time. But they're certainly, they've made profession of faith, some were pastors, leaders, they're walking away. Why?

What happened? And then how do we respond? What are the answers? So for you to be equipped and to help others, especially if you're doing any kind of ministry or you know people, it's just, it's in the air, it's everywhere. Or if you yourself struggle with any questions, I don't know if I can believe the Bible anymore and it seems to God the Bible is hateful, and I don't know, I see a lot of people deconstructing, they seem to be pretty smart, and you know, why should I believe you versus them?

And this book will really help you. So here's the number to call 800-538-5275, 800-538-5275. Everything that comes in goes straight into our ministry work. I received nothing from it, our team does, it all goes straight into ministry work. So it's a great way to support our ministry as well, 800-538-5SK, as in ask.

Or go to the website, askdrbrown.org, askdrbrown.org, just click on shop, and you can still take advantage of the offer. Again, we only do this with the first printing of a book, the first edition, so it is numbered. First several hundred are numbered, each one's signed, they have a scripture reference in there that especially applies to the content of the book so that the verse will minister to you as well. And it's our joy to send them out, we pray over them that God would use them to bless you.

Get a few copies for yourself, for others that you know, one more time, 800-538-5275. Next broadcast here on the Line of Fire, I want to give you some encouraging news from the culture. Look at what's happening in the world around us, and some of the examples of pushing back. We saw it so much in the last year, now it's rising, but it has to be the church leading the way, and we are here to help see you healthy, spirit, soul, body, mind, glorifying the Lord as you're healthy, as the church is healthy, America can get healthy. It's not too late. God is on the move. He wants to work through you and through me. Let us stand side by side and make a difference together. God bless America.