Torben Sondergaard Calls the Line of Fire from Prison

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. So, if you've got a question for me of any kind, give me a call, any subject, there's nothing off subject, any subject is fine, 866-34-Truth, 866-348-7884, but I'll only be taking calls the first half hour of the broadcast, because in the second half hour, we should be getting a call from prison.

Never happened before on our broadcast. Torben Sundegard, leader of the Last Reformation movement, calling from prison. Why has he been in prison in America since June? Yeah, since June. What's going on?

We'll also have his attorney on, his immigration attorney talking as well, so I won't be taking calls the second half of the show, but trust me, you don't want to miss a minute of this. All right. Can I, like always, speak to you from the heart with absolute candor, with absolute honesty? When I wrote my first book on revival in 1989, The End of the American Gospel Enterprise that had the foreword by Leonard Ravenhill, when I wrote that book, I felt as if America was hanging in the balance. I felt as if, if we don't see real revival, if we don't see God move in powerful ways in the nation, that we could be on the verge of collapse. I've carried that burden with intensity for years. I've written many books about the sickly state of so much of the American church.

I've written books about the sickly state of the charismatic movement, of which I am a part. So, I am anybody but someone who's just always saying, just positive, just be happy, just think encouraging thoughts. No, sometimes you need sobering thoughts. You don't always need encouraging thoughts.

Sometimes you need sobering thoughts. Many times the message of Jesus, his loving message to the church is, repent! It's not just, oh, everybody be happy, and you're going to be wealthy and prosperous, and everything's going to be wonderful. No, that's not the message of the gospel. God is with his people, yes.

And in the end, good triumphs over evil, absolutely. But I have been very, very honest. I have been looked at as the leading critic within the charismatic movement, of the charismatic movement. A leading critic as an evangelical within the evangelical movement.

A leading critic as the messianic Jew within the messianic Jewish movement. In other words, I'm not pulling punches. I firmly believe in what's written in Proverbs 27, that open rebuke is better than secret love. I firmly believe, based on 2 Timothy 3.16 to the beginning of the fourth chapter of 2 Timothy, that the word of God, God's holy word, which is God breathed, is not just for encouragement, but also for teaching, also for correction, also for rebuke. And Jesus says in Revelation 3.19, as many as I love, I rebuke in discipline, therefore be zealous and repent. And 3.22 in Revelation says, this is what the Spirit is saying to the church. So, the message of repentance is always near and dear to me. And if you follow us on social media, you'll see this is a message we put out regularly. If you read my last book on revival, which came out a little over a year ago, Revival or We Die, Great Awakening is our only hope you know that I'm not just one of these guys who only paints a positive picture.

So, this same person, this same realist, this same one who is really honest with you, this same one that called out the failed Trump prophecies and Christians following QAnon conspiracies, this same person is telling you, God is on the move in America. Things are happening that I have not seen happening in years. And not just in one place, but in many places. And I'm going to church after church, places where I've never been before, pastors that I don't know, some of them in their 60s, some in their 50s, some younger, but I'm mentioning older.

In other words, it's not just a youth movement, it's multigenerational. And I'm seeing the same thing at church after church after church. I'm seeing buildings packed. I'm seeing during worship the whole front filled with kids going after the Lord. I'm hearing regular testimonies of conversions, of baptisms, of people being added to the body.

I heard from two pastors in the last, oh, week, week and a half that are starting the year with prayer and fasting. One pastor said that over the nights, thousands of people are coming to join in in the prayer meetings. Another pastor told me that they kicked off a time of fasting with an opening night prayer meeting and the building was packed. They couldn't get all the people in. They had 400 kids plus 1,700 adults.

It filled the building's capacity to come out to initiate a fast. God is at work, friends. And you say, well, it's not happening where I am. Well, God is no respecter of persons. In other words, he's not going to do something because this one's wealthier, because this one's got better connections or because this one's better looking or because, no, he doesn't work like that.

He responds to hunger and thirst. And I want to encourage you, friends, don't give up now. Pastors, leaders, some of you have been laboring. It's been hard. You've been through church split. You've been betrayed. You've given it your best and you just don't see the change coming. You've been at it for years.

Don't be discouraged. God is faithful and God is on the move. You know, when when Joshua was getting ready to take the promised land, he was full of faith. He was a warrior.

Well, it's now 38 years have gone by. He's watched a whole generation die in the wilderness. He's got to be at least 60, right? Because every he he was part of the generation 20 years old and more that that was there when God did what he did, delivering the people from Egypt, etc. He was there to see that. And then he was part of that generation that rebelled and wouldn't go into the promised land and walk these things out by faith. And he was a leader. He may have been 30 40.

He could have been 70 80 at this point, but certainly at least 60. Maybe he wasn't as strong as he was before. Maybe he wasn't as courageous. Maybe watching a whole generation die in the wilderness warned him.

I don't know. But I know in the first chapter of Joshua that repeatedly, God says, Be strong and of good courage. Has Akbar months, has Akbar months, has Akbar months. That's the message I want to give to you. Be strong and of good courage. I have more expectation in my heart of God moving in America than I've had in years. And I'm always full of holy expectation.

But I'm saying it is deepening friends. You say, Dr. Brown, don't you have eyes to see America's falling apart? I see it here. Do you know anyone who addresses moral cultural issues any more than I do? Do you know anyone that talks more about the insanity of the society more than I do?

I'm sure there are others doing it, but do you know anyone and any Christian leader that's doing it more than I'm doing? I'm aware of it. I'm aware of here's the comic book now. The Joker, right?

So arch enemy of Batman, the Joker. It's pregnant. Yeah. And he has a baby.

Oh, pregnant man. What do you know? The comic books have been pushing this stuff for years and years and years.

All kinds of gay and lesbian and trans superheroes, et cetera, et cetera. I know the madness that's happening in society. I report on it often many times a week.

I have whole books documenting these things. I'm aware we all see the deep political divisions. We all see the crisis at the border. We all see the economic uncertainty.

We all see the world uncertainty. We all see that. I'm aware. I'm deeply aware of it.

And the many fractures and fissures within the church and the ongoing scandals. I'm aware of all of it, but I'm telling obviously I don't know every detail, but I have a sense. I have an understanding of how difficult and dark and painful things are. And yet from the heart, not just by faith, but by sight as well. I'm telling you, God is moving and it is not too late for America and a word that God spoke to my heart over and over over the years, beginning in the late nineties. And it burns in me to this moment. As surely as there was a civil rights movement in America, there will be a gospel based moral and cultural revolution by God's grace.

I'll be right in the thick of it. That's why we're on the air. That's a key reason why we're on the air to, to help bring courage and faith and truth and equip you because look, this is lived out this quote revolution, not one of hatred, not one of anger, not one of violence, not one of intimidation, but overcoming hatred with love, overcoming lies with truth, overcoming the power of the flesh by the power of the spirit. Our weapons are different weapons.

We don't fight as the world fights. I, I know that this is lived out where you are. This is lived out in the place of business. This is lived out in the school system.

This is lived out in the local church. Yeah, I'm on the radio talking about this, but then I'm in the real world living this out as well. So by God's grace, I want to encourage you today. Don't throw in the towel. Don't even think about it. Don't think about throwing in the towel. Don't think about quitting. Don't think it's too, well, it's inevitable.

Everything's going to come crushing down. Hey, hang on. Didn't we see Roe v. Wade overturned last year? Wasn't that utterly impossible in the minds of many for years and years and years? I remember when my dear friend Lou Angle launched the Justice House of Prayer in DC and they were devoted to 24 seven prayer until Roe v. Wade was overturned. And obviously that's just one of the prayer points. There are many other pro-life prayer points that they're praying for over these years. And I remember going in and speaking to them.

They were several months into this and, and the building where they were renting rooms, you could, you could see the Supreme Court from there. And I said, you know, you might feel like, hey, we're getting close. We're getting close to the breakthrough. I said, give it a few more years before Satan even takes notice of you. In other words, a lot of people have come and gone. A lot of people have, yeah, we're going to do this.

We're going to do that. And you pray, you cry out fast and nothing happens. And you kind of, you lose hope, you lose energy. It's, it's easy to happen. That's why Jesus gives a parable in Luke 18 that people should pray and not cave in, not lose heart, not grow faint.

It's about the persistent widow who just is going to keep knocking until she gets her answer. People have done that. What seemed utterly impossible has happened. Some people say that since the overturn of Roe, we weighed maybe 10,000 babies, maybe more have been saved. So there are going to be human beings living out their lives that wouldn't have otherwise.

And women without the scars of abortion. This is major. It's a step.

It's a step in the right direction. Friends, God is at work. I'm seeing it in church after church after church.

And it's the same site. Hungry people praying fast in the Holy Spirit moving and lots of young people, lots of kids going after God. When I come back, I want to share more from my heart. So don't go anywhere. What you hear is going to bless you deeply. And then bottom of the hour, all going well, we're going to hear from prison from Turbin Sundagore. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on The Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Let me repeat this, this pledge that I gave yesterday. I will not get your blood boiling unless I can get your faith rising.

I will not point to the problem unless I can also point to the solution. There's so many times you put on the news, you get upset and a lot of it is meant to do that. A lot of it is meant to get clicks, to get views, to get eyeballs on it, to get readers, to draw people in. I'm not trying to do that. I would rather have a small group of people absolutely devoted to Jesus than millions of casual followers that just found my words encouraging their casual lifestyle. But what if we can get those millions ablaze also?

So I want, again, ask you to give me your best year as I share with you from my heart. We have been laboring for decades to make the maximum amount of material available to the maximum number of people absolutely free. So when you tune into the radio broadcast, obviously there's no charge for that, but if you want to watch online, we made that available free. Many others you have to pay a fee to be able to watch a feed or you only listen so much and then the rest is subscriber content.

We've done our best not to do that. I've written, I don't know, probably 2700 op-ed pieces. I think maybe 50 or 60 or behind paywalls and that's just the way it was set up with the people that asked me to write. Everything else is available free. All these debates I've done with rabbis, classes on answering Jewish objections to Jesus.

Go to the Real Messiah website. They're there free for you. So it costs a lot of money to produce this. It costs a lot of money to be on the air, but we do our best to find ways to make the maximum amount of material available to the maximum number of people for free. And it is God's will. I'm convinced of it. I'm sure of it as surely as I'm sitting here with you that our line of fire broadcast right now in these days and months and years ahead blankets America. That means for every 10 stations around, we'll be on 100 stations. For every 20 stations, we're on 200 stations.

I'm talking about massive exponential growth. Now, the way we're on the radio is because many of you help support us. It's that simple. You know we don't do annual fundraisers. It's fine to do it. And I've noticed that those who criticize, those who are the loudest in criticizing ministries who are legitimately raising funds for the gospel, they're the ones who give the least. It's a very interesting thing.

They're very interested. Well, if people like you were giving, we wouldn't have to, you know? So thank you for all of you who support this ministry because you're helping us reach more people.

It's that simple. You're helping us reach more Jewish people with the gospel. You're helping us bring more courage to believers across America. You're helping us equip more pastors. So thank you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for all of that.

So I say that to say this. I was super blessed when Michael Ellison from Ellison Media, so having worked with major Christian media for decades around the world, and then the founder of Trivita, when he came and said, he said, Dr. Brown, I believe I have a plan. He is not looking to make money by sponsoring us. He is looking to generate funds for us to get on more radio stations. So in other words, when you place an order with Trivita, they are turning around and putting a substantial portion of that, or I mean substantial, back into us being on radio. In fact, it's not even going to us. It's going directly to expand our reach to get on more radio stations to speak to more people for free.

It's quite remarkable. And because it's a wellness company, it's something I can say amen to. And Michael said, Dr. Brown, unless you really believe that this is helpful to people, I don't want to do it because it's not a business partnership. And that's my heart as well. In other words, if someone said, Dr. Brown, if you'll just sell the latest trampoline, you know, on your show and give a spot for trampolines that will donate money. Well, that's nice.

Trampolines are nice. It's not okay. It doesn't quite fit in with the larger vision. Or we got this, you know, car repair company.

Everybody needs car repair, right? But the idea of combining wellness with this and this month, we're going to talk about it through the month because it's our Let's Get Healthy theme. And I want to introduce you to Trivita.

But otherwise, just during the show, you know, there's advertising time during the show, during our breaks. So that's when people will be hearing about Trivita and taking advantage of it. And as the funds come in, they're turning around saying, let's expand your reach. And this is what this is what I've been burning to do because I want to help more people because I know we could strengthen with courage and with faith. So I'm also pumped because I've been using some of these supplements. And remember, everything starts with healthy eating, healthy living.

But I've been using these supplements and I I've been I've been shocked, positively shocked because I'm so healthy already to see the effect on these. So I want to play this ad for you. I want to encourage you take advantage of this. Give a call. It's a full money back guarantee.

And then tell you what, let me play this and then I'll come back, talk to you on the other side of this ad. Nitric oxide was not widely publicized until about 1998. The doctors, they received the Nobel Prize for the discovery of this molecule, a miracle molecule that helps increase blood flow for energy. When the body is under the need for more energy, it releases nitric oxide, which dilates those arteries to increase blood flow. And it sends messages back to our central nervous system in our brain that says we need more blood flow to supply this need a miracle molecule that helps increase blood flow for enhanced performance, vitality and energy and even helps lower blood pressure. Try nitric oxide plus with a no risk 100% money back guarantee. The good news is is that we have a mechanism for increasing nitric oxide production in our bodies.

Do something good for your heart and cardiovascular system. Learn how to get a free sample and 25% off nitric oxide plus call 800-477-4816 or go to TriVita.com. Use promo code BROWN23 in the shopping cart to receive 25% off your first order and a free sample. You will also receive the 10 Habits of Wellness book absolutely free and TriVita will give a substantial portion of your order to help support the Line of Fire radio broadcast. Go to TriVita.com or call 800-477-4816. So friends, I want to encourage you to take advantage of that. By the way, during the show live yesterday there was an issue on the website.

Everything's been resolved. So you can go to TriVita.com. Use the code BROWN23 to get the discount and then the book is yours to keep 10 Habits of Wellness by Michael Ellison and then try out the nitric oxide for months. See what happens. Take it every day. See what happens. See if you get results.

If so, wonderful and know that as you're helping yourself get healthier, get stronger as you're helping yourself do that, you're also helping the Line of Fire spread across the nation. The number to call is 1-800-477-4816. Let me give that to you one more time. 800-477-4816. Call now. Take advantage of this. Again, full money back guarantee and I'm just excited because this is something God's brought about.

And you could get 20 million orders in. Not a dime goes to me. Not a dime goes to our team. Everything goes to help spread the Line of Fire across the nation. What a holy partnership. What a sacred thing. So I'm blessed.

That's just sales. You don't know me. You don't know my heart and why it burns and why this so excites me. All right, I'm going to grab a call and then we're going to transition over to a segment you're not going to forget. Let's go over to Laura in Raleigh, North Carolina. What's on your mind? Hi there.

Happy New Year. Your message is incredibly abundantly encouraging to hear that people are waking up, that God, his Holy Spirit, which I already know is powerful, but that, yeah, because it's been some dark days and they're getting darker and the darker the night, the brighter his light though. Let it shine. Let it shine.

I just won the fun. Thank you. Well, Laura, you are very welcome and you're calling from Raleigh. This is one of the stations we've been on now for 14 years.

Yes. So all of you who've listened faithfully and supported this over the years, thank you so much. But, but Laura, you speak for so many others is dark and look, how much do you hear on the news about what God is doing? How, we don't hear about that a whole lot, do we? We hear about all the bad stuff and, and, and again, it's the bad news that really sells and it's the sensationalistic news that really sells. And you know, Laura, I've, I've been looking at headlines just, just the way my computer set up. If I click to open a new window, headlines will come up from one news site. And I would say 80% of the headlines, if I actually click, are misleading, especially the ones with these sensationalistic tones.

When I actually read them, they are misleading. So it's just a matter of getting you to watch it. No, no, no.

We're not here to do that. We're here to say, yeah, it's, it's a battle and it's a lot of darkness and a lot of pain and a lot of difficulty and still many still recovering from the hardships of COVID and so on. Dark days, dark days in different parts around the world, but the light is shining and it is shining brightly. And I want to encourage you by reporting on what God genuinely really is doing.

Not just a report I heard, but people I know firsthand, some people I've known for years and the reports are consistent. The tide is rising. It's the truth. Hey, thank you so much for the call. I do appreciate it. All right, I'm not going to be taking other calls today. Let me remind you again, the number to call to check out nitric oxide supplement from Triveda and in doing so to say, Hey, Dr. Brown, I want to support the line of fire.

It's, it's, it's the way you do both at the same time. Call 800-477-4816. It's 800-477-4816 or go to triveda.com, T-R-I-V-I-T-A.

Check out all the other products they have, triveda.com and use the code BROWN23 as in the year 2023. Let me say it again. God is on the move. Be in courage.

We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. A few years back, I began to hear about the last reformation. Dr. Brown, are you familiar with the last reformation?

Have you seen the video? I began to hear the name Torben Sondergaard and all this controversy surrounding this movement. He's based in, in Denmark and is it God?

What's happening? And it was basically one of these back to the Bible movements. It was saying, hey, look, Jesus gave us a commission to go out and heal the sick and set the captives free, to make disciples, to baptize them. And, and Torben was seeking to live this out on the streets and seeing amazing fruit. And as a result of that, there was some real opposition in Denmark and attacks on him. And ultimately he came to the States with the goal to have religious asylum here, to be able to freely practice his faith and for his children to freely live out their faith.

And we'll talk about the situation in Denmark in a little while. But what, what happened was that he got, he got arrested. And yeah, I was trying to explain to my wife what happened because I was going to testify on his behalf in court. Why in the world did he get arrested?

Why is he still in prison? What's going on? So we are trying to make this work with Torben through his wife, setting up a three-way to get him on.

We'll see if we can do that momentarily. But I want to bring on first, Torben's attorney, Michelle Sanchez, who I've gotten to know recently. She's well accomplished bilingual lawyer.

She's involved with human rights, public welfare and immigration reform and has been working Torben's case. So, uh, Michelle, let's go over to you. Thanks so much for joining us on the line of fire. Michelle, are you there? All right. Hello. Hello. One second. Tell you what I think, I think we may have Torben ready.

Let's see a Torben. Are you there, sir? Ah, okay. All right. You are calling us from prison right now.

Yeah, I'm calling for myself. How, how long, how long have you been in prison? 195 days. One for now. That is a little more than a half year.

Oh my. And why were you arrested in the first place? To be honest, I'm a short, I'm very surprised that something like that can happen in America. And to be honest, I actually don't know.

And I still don't know today because the first thing I was hurt was that they had heard that I was supporting weapons. But that's all to the ground. Right.

So I remember hearing you don't make any sense. Yeah. Friends, this, this is actually happening in America. This is not something we're making up. I, I testified in court. I saw Torben in, in the prison outfit and brought in there handcuffed.

I mean, it's shocking. Whatever's going on, whatever prompted it. So someone says smuggling weapons.

So they, right. The gospel preachers, smuggling, smuggling weapons from Mexico, whatever it was, of course that, that disappears, but still being held. So Torben, to this day, are you saying that formal charges have not been brought against you?

Yes, there's no charges, nothing. And, and, and what I don't understand is why, why can somebody not just sit us down, put the table on the table and say, okay, I've told him, done anything he had been accused of and put charges against him, against him. But, but we have, there's nothing and I've not done anything criminal and, and, and I'm still here, 195 days celebrating my birthday, celebrate my anniversary, new year, Christmas away from my family. I've been married with my wife, spent seven years as a ministry full-time over 20 years, and I've never done anything criminal.

And I have no idea how long time we will go still. That is the thing. Like when I came in first, they put me in handcuffs off the wall, chains around my leg, handcuffs on my hip. And then they put me in first time, 10 days in isolation. And then later I was put into a doll with people who have been in prison for 20 and 30 years. One of my roommates, he has murdered somebody.

Another guy here stabbed his boss in the back with a knife. What have I done? I've been preaching the gospel.

The day before I got arrested, I baptized 10 people and prayed for people and shared Jesus. And so it has been very unreal. And, and I think that is the biggest, the whole surprise around it. And, and don't understand why it's not on every news media outlet out there and why, why nothing is happening.

This is what I feel like sometimes when I'm here, my family feels like that. We have to, I don't understand, I truly don't understand. And you know, let me speak to everybody plainly. You might say, well, I, I, I disagree with Corbin's doctrine or I don't, I don't think that God heals like this today or whatever. I don't believe in deliverance. Fine. You can have your differences. The idea that someone is in jail and he's given himself to preaching the gospel.

I, I've got good friends, grads from ministry school have worked with Corbin on the front lines. People getting healed, getting set free from demons, above all being led to Jesus, being baptized in water. And that's what you were going about doing. That's what you were doing in America. In fact, that's where you were in America because of the persecution and the hostility in Denmark. You know, Denmark, a country of what, of five, six million people, but there may be 5,000 or less charismatic Pentecostals. It's, it's a tiny, tiny minority.

And among those, those actually living in outs, even a smaller number. So friends, this, I'm doing my best to shout this to the world. This is massively unjust.

And again, we're going to bring on a training Michelle Sanchez in a moment to give us more legal background. Corbin, how has God used you in prison? Because this is where you are right now and, and he has not answered prayer to get you out.

What's been happening in prison? Yeah, I would say the first month or two, I, I was almost depressed to God. I say I lost a lot of weight.

I also passed it, but I really felt depressed. But then very strong dream for somebody and God really starts to speak to me about taking responsibility for my time here and, and don't waste my time and really try to get the best out of it. So I, I've been reading the Bible course a lot. I've been praying a lot.

I read the whole Bible and this, but then God starts to move. After two months here, people start to get dreams and repent. Like, like there was one guy who came to my cell one day, he got the same dream three nights, three times that night. And he repented and he got born again, baptized, filled with the Holy Spirit. Another guy, he got a dream of an evil snake coming to him. He took a stone and throw after the snake, destroyed the head of the snake. He called his wife.

He got the same dream, the same night outside. And I could use that to preach the gospel. And he got baptized and born again. And, and, and then things start to happen. And people start to get healed. People start to feel free. On the other side, baptized five people in order. Of course, we believe in immersion, but I don't have that here.

So then you've got water over the head and then they go in and take a shower afterwards. But, and many more have been healed and really met God. And one time we, I did a teaching every day and we started a three Bible discovery, three Bible groups, where people were doing Bible studies. And the challenge is that it's in Spanish. I'm the only one who don't speak Spanish. So try to imagine that also I've been with you for half a year where I'm the only one who don't speak Spanish.

So the TV's in Spanish when they play cards outside, they're in Spanish. So it's only two, three people I can communicate with. And, and they have met God and been my translator. Many people have left now. Most people have left.

I'm actually the one in this apartment where I am now. We've been here longer. So many people have left. So the atmosphere changed a little.

New people come in and some people have also gone against it. So now we had three Bible stories. We have at one time 18 people out of 25 who were doing Bible study every day. Many lives got changed, but now we only have one Bible study left and the new people come in were not so interesting. But I've learned a lot.

I want to say it has been the hardest thing I've ever experienced, but it has been beautiful in some areas. When I read the Bible now, he's the word about people who lie all kind of evil and be arrested. It makes sense. When I see how Paul, he wrote seven of the letters from prison and they put the clues in the book of Acts.

It's maybe often jealousy. Paul came up late, he was preaching the gospel. Many people received and some people received and then some people became jealous and they started to spread a lot of lies. And so I learned a lot.

I would say in some areas I'm thankful. I was not I was about very depressed and very down and very fearful and said to everyone, be careful. Don't go to jail.

But now after half a year, it is the hardest I've ever tried. But I want to say to everyone, be born out there. Praise the gospel.

Don't be afraid. Like God is in control. He is working through this. And I spend so many hours every day just in prayer and reading the word. And I just want to say, people, praise the gospel. We need the gospel. Yeah, and Torben, from the heart, I truly believe that everything Satan or the world mean for evil, God will turn for good. And just like John Bunyan would not have produced some of the works he produced if he was not in prison, and the letters of Paul from prison that we read to this day, I truly believe that just what God's doing in your own heart, all the time alone with him that you never could have had in the midst of ministry and family, as hard as it's been, especially separate from your family, I truly believe that the prayer that comes out of this will be used for good.

That being said, when we come back on in a moment with Michelle Sanchez, we want to talk about practical things that folks can do. But I want everyone that's listening, that's watching, pray for Torben and his family. Pray for justice. Pray for God's best.

Pray that everything that was meant to hurt the gospel will instead advance the gospel. As an American, I'm ashamed that this is happening in our country, but by God's grace, we're going to see it through. Go ahead, last word to you, Torben. When I left Denmark, I was in shock. I could never imagine that I should experience what I experienced in Denmark, and I was sitting in the airport on the way to America, and I was like, God, how can this happen? I've been so proud of being Danish, and suddenly the government come after me. And then God said, Torben, I brought you to America to make my people ready for what is coming, because I also came to America, and now I have experienced it.

I'm a preacher, I'm a pastor, I've been sitting in jail without any shots. Amazing. Yeah. Hey, I'm sorry. I'm just going to jump in. We're out of time here in this segment.

We're going to come back with Michelle, but hear this word from Torben. This is preparation for what is coming. God bless you, my brother.

You are not alone. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on The Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on The Line of Fire for a very, very important interview. We're joined now by attorney Michelle Sanchez. Thanks for holding and being with us today, Michelle. I appreciate it. Oh, it's my pleasure, Dr. Brown.

It's so nice to speak with you today. Yes, so Michelle, is there something we're not being told? Is there something we're missing? Is there more to the story?

Because it seems outrageous. Well, actually, there is a lot that needs to be clarified in this story. There's a lot of discrepancies that have been caused by public commentary, incorrect public commentary, so I would like to set something very straight and very clear before we even discuss anything else.

Please. First of all, his asylum application was timely filed, and the judge ascertained this in court. The judge also determined that he was 100% credible, that Torben was 100% credible in his testimony. The judge never said anything that could lead anyone to believe that Torben was inventing a claim. With asylum law, there's something very specific, which is called a frivolous application for asylum.

If the judge determines that the application is frivolous, that the testimony is tainted by fraud or embellishment, the judge could deem the application frivolous, and that would bar the individual from applying for any other immigration benefit in the future. But in this case, Torben was determined to be 100% credible. The judge determined that he didn't show any persecution in the past, but that's besides the point. All the persecution that he fears is subjectively and objectively grounded, and that was what we had to establish. The judge said, yes, subjective, you got it. You fear persecution. I see that in your testimony.

But the objective component is what the judge said was non-existent, and that is very simple. Any person in Torben's shoes would fear persecution should that person had to return to Denmark. I would say, Dr. Brown, that if a law were passed on the Parliament floor and there was a politician speaking about a documentary named God's Best Children, and the preacher who was performing the deliverances was doing these things on different people, and that that was something that could be very dangerous to children to view because it could cause them PTSD, or it could make them very scared, and the only preacher who performed these deliverances on God's Best Children is Torben, I would say that the only person who that politician was referring to was Torben Sondergaard.

And let me just jump in. So, friends, this is not a hypothetical. In other words, you do have a politician in Denmark. You do have legislation being discussed very specifically that would ban the practice of deliverance, which is a very biblical New Testament practice that would ban the practice of deliverance, let's say, with children present, or there would be consequences for performance, whatever. This was not hypothetical. This is only actually happening, and Torben's own children have been interviewed and thoroughly investigated, you know, what's going on, how are they being affected. So, we thought there was a very strong case to say he has already experienced religious persecution in Denmark and has every reason to fear that there would be consequences from practicing his faith, or his children potentially taken away. Now you're saying this is actually something being talked about in legislation in Denmark, correct? Yes, it's being spoken about specifically in Denmark, and that legislation was passed, and we presented the translation of that politician's words on the Parliament floor, where the politician referred to the preacher with Torben and the documentary God's Best Children, and we also presented the law itself and the translation.

So, how could there be any room for further judgment than that of seeing that this gentleman, Torben Thunderguard, fears persecution on account of his religion should he return to Denmark? And the other thing that the judge said was that this law was a law of general application. That means that if you run a red light and you get a traffic ticket, anybody could run a red light and get a traffic ticket. That's a law of general application. This law, this section 243 in Denmark, applies to him.

It was authored with mind. It's something that was done that was done specifically to punish him, and I think that the judge, with all the risk, the immigration court and the Department of Justice, the Department of Homeland Security, all the people involved in this hearing, with all due respect, I don't think that it would be a good idea for an immigration judge in his position to open up the floodgates to litigation and all of a sudden say, okay, Christians who are persecuted in this way in Nordic country can apply for asylum because I'm finding that Mr. Thunderguard fears persecution should he return. So I think in the back of that judge's mind, and excuse me if I'm speculating, but I think I'm making a very educated guess, I think in the back of that judge's mind, he didn't want to set a precedent that would allow other individuals to apply for asylum, other persecuted Christians, which we know that happens in many places of the world. I mean, we know that there's a Berke band in Denmark. We know that there's a circumcision of babies in Denmark. Now there's a ban against deliverances? You know, how are we going to take this? You know, and when I shared, when I was asked to testify about religious persecution, say in Finland, you've got someone that was a parliamentary leader, that was the head of a party, physician, mother, grandmother, respected political leader, what's the name, Pikey Rysin, I'm probably getting the name slightly wrong, had it in front of me that day, but she's facing potentially six years in prison for three different times when she criticized the Lutheran Church, which is the state church, just like they have the state church of Denmark, it's largely apostate, for the Lutheran Church saying that it was fine for homosexuals to marry, and she criticized that based on the Bible, she's facing potentially six years in jail for that.

I mean, that's just another example of what's happening in some of these Scandinavian countries. So Michelle, we've just got a couple of minutes here, and you're just giving us an overview of some of the injustice and some of the wrongness of what's happened. Before we go any further, if folks want to stand with Torben, if they want to get more information, is the Best White Site Friends of Torben, where should they go? Well, I know he has a Facebook site, which his wife is very supportive, wife and confidant and rock, Lena, Thunderguard is posting, and also Friends of Torben, and they could just voice their support in their own ways through their Instagram, through their Reddit, through their own form of social media, because he has many supporters and many people who believe in him. And I didn't know him before representing him, and I'm not associated with the last reformation, but I am 100% his fan, his lawyer, his supporter, his friend, and I'm going to fight this to the fullest extent of the law, because the injustice that has been committed here against him is just far too great to go unnoticed. Yeah, so friends, go to friendsoftorben.com, and Michelle, what we'll do, and we'll send this to you as well, we'll pull out this last half hour of the show, just make it an independent episode on YouTube, and this way people can freely share this, hear Torben's words live from prison, hear your words as his immigration attorney here. And let me say this once more to all my brothers and sisters listening, don't dare say for a moment, well, Torben's controversial, so why should I care?

I don't agree with everything on Torben. If this could happen to him with a simple gospel message on the streets, living out New Testament faith, it could happen to anybody. If it could happen to him here in America under these asylum issues and immigration issues, and if he could be falsely accused, it could happen to anybody. So this is a brother we are standing with and someone who very frankly is ultimately in jail because of his Christian faith.

Hey, we've got about a minute left. Anything more you'd like to share, Michelle? Well, I'd also like to share that we filed his appeal from this adverse decision, and again I would like to stress that the adverse decision doesn't mean that he gave false information.

The adverse decision just means that the judge did not agree with issuing him asylum, and we have many strong points on appeal. We hope to receive the transcript of all the proceedings very soon, and as soon as we receive it, we will be filing the brief within about a month of the receipt of that transcript. So in the next few months, we'll have more information ready for you, Dr. Brown, and we hope to provide some good news regarding this very soon, God willing.

Absolutely. Hey, Michelle, thank you so much for all your efforts and for being with us. And again, friends, go to FriendsOfTorben.com, and let's pray. Torben, we're standing with you, and they're used to listening. Let's pray Isaiah 54, 17 in Hebrew.

It's a very specific legal application. Every tongue that rises against you in judgment meeting in a court of law, you will pronounce guilty. So let us pray for justice. Let us pray for the furtherance of the gospel. Let us pray for personal encouragement that the joy of the Lord would visit Torben and his family, and that next time we talk with Torben, it'll be outside of bars, freely living here in America. May Jesus be exalted through all this. Torben, we love you. We're standing with you. God bless. Another program powered by the Truth Network.