The Amazing Story of Charlie Joe Chai

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If you have any questions, please let me know in the comments below. Alright, so Charles Cpl, a grad of our ministry school in Pensacola, Florida and then was on our team, on our staff, our ministry school, the branch we had in New York City for some years. He is one of the most creatively gifted people I know on the planet and developed something that you're going to find really interesting. There's a whole spiritual component to it.

That's why we're having him on the air. Charles, great to talk to you. How you doing, man? Hey, how you doing?

All good, all good, Charles. So, hey, watching you as a creative person, how many Christian songs have you written? Well, I think about at least a thousand.

I have a couple folders of them. At least, I mean, I remember when it was 300 and I was amazingly impressed. So, at least a thousand, God, and all different types of genre styles. And you became famous in our circles because you would lead our worship teams overseas and you would learn to sing in the native language and train the team to do it, which is really hard. How many countries did you do that in, Charles? How many countries did you do that in, Charles?

I did that in 15 different languages and I think we were in over 20 countries. Incredible. And only God. And I have a hilarious story about how this big hole started, if you have a minute. Yeah, go ahead, go ahead. Okay, I tell this story. The first time we were in that meeting for India and you, it was about 50 students, and you had asked for a volunteer who would like to learn the songs in Telugu to teach the team. And I don't know why, but I raised my hand and I even remember looking at my hand and saying, what are you doing?

Because I'm horrible at languages and my wife can attest to that. But next thing I know, you put that cassette in my hand and I came home and I said, hey, Jenny, guess what? I volunteered to learn the songs for the India trip in Telugu. She goes, you did what? You can't sing in Telugu. I said, I know, I don't know why I volunteered. But I prayed, I said, Lord, would you please anoint me to sing in Telugu? And I'm telling you, the Lord spoke to me in that moment and he said, divide and conquer. And I was like, divide and conquer?

What does that mean? And he showed me that the human mouth can only make so many syllables. And if I could divide it by syllables, then I could sing in Telugu. So I put in the cassette tape and what my wife and I heard was like this really high pitched, unintelligible thing.

I'm like, oh my gosh, Lord help me. But I got the first syllable, kah, and I wrote K A H, lu, L U, wah, W A H, R E E, re, R E E, Kaluwari. I had my first Telugu word. I'm singing in Telugu.

And I did that for every word. And next thing you know, we have Kaluwari syllable, syllable, syllable. And we translated about four songs word for word. And my goal was that Alabama Joe, Joe Oden would be able to look at this sheet and sing and sound Telugu. And we got to India and our team of 50 singing Kaluwari syllable in the airport for Yesubatham and tears streaming down his face.

And he said, never have I heard such perfect Telugu from white faces. And that was the beginning. And then on that trip, Mr. Cava said, can you do this in other languages? And I said, I can do it in any language.

It's just syllable. So that's how it all started. And we did it in 15 different languages. Just amazing. And I remember you did this lead worship in Italy one time with me, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

We want to see Jesus. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So it was just amazing. And that was the biggest team we ever took from our from our ministry school or anywhere. 51 students from our ministry school went over to India for the trip of a lifetime.

But the trip of a lifetime. The reason we tell the story is because that India trip impacted you in a number of different ways and led to this amazing entrepreneurial thing you're doing, which is, in turn, feeding into rescuing sexually trafficked children. So with tremendous ministry outlet. But what happened in India?

And how is that tied in now with the birth of Charlie Jo Chai? Well, see, before I went to Brownsville School of Ministry, I worked as a youth pastor, and I also worked as a barista on the side. And so my goal and passion was to perfect every coffee shop drink. And so there in 1998, we show up in India, and, you know, they said don't you the instructor don't either drink it off the street, you're going to get sick. But I saw these little chai baristas on every corner brewing up tea and spices and it was it was boiling. So I thought, oh, it'll be okay. So I tasted that chai and I call it the epiphany of flavor. And I never tasted something so amazing. So on that trip, we had come with suitcases that I had given, you know, you toothbrushes and you know, shoes and whatever we gave out.

So then you have these empty suitcases. So I filled it up with tea and spices, and I brought it home. And I said, I'm going to learn how to do this. And for the, you know, and plus my wife doesn't like coffee.

So how you doing? And so I worked on that recipe for the next 20 years and just for fun. And I perfected it. And I've been I went back to India several times.

In fact, on my third trip there, we stayed with a family in Chile, Kulu, which is not far from Hyderabad, Mama Lily pop up at Phoenix. And she was known in the whole region for her chai and dignitaries and officials would go 100 miles out of their way just to get some of Mama Lily's chai. And I said, Oh, I'm trying to learn how to make this.

Would you teach me? So every morning we would wake up and it was like chai boot camp. And she would teach me about each one of the spices and how to know if they're good and how you grind them each a little differently and how much I didn't like walk away with the recipe because it was different every time. It was like my mama, Louisa making, you know, Italian sauce.

It was a little pinch of this, a pinch of that. And so I just learned the basics of chai and that's how it all began. All right. So you've been making chai for your wife, Jenny, for how long? 20 years? Oh, yes, since 1998.

Okay. So yeah, so over 20 years and you finally felt, okay, you got this thing perfected. So how did you then decide, let's turn this into a company and let's use it for the Lord? Well, so I worked on perfecting it literally.

I don't feel like I had a perfected until 2018 because there's so many moving parts and all different spices. And I, we would, I would show up at family fellowships and Bible studies and gatherings with my suitcase of spices and I would make chai for everybody. And so then in 2019, I found myself in transition.

I was leaving a ministry that I was working for, Christ for All Nations, and I didn't know what I was going to do. And a dear friend of mine said, well Charles, you should start a chai company because no one makes chai like you. And I thought he was crazy. I thought, I'm imagining myself on the street corner selling chai.

I just didn't see how it was going to work. And he goes, well, here I have a friend that is the owner of a chai, of a coffee chain. And if he tastes this chai, he's going to want it in all the stores.

So we went over there, I made him chai, and he said, Charles, this is the most amazing chai I've ever had in my life. But can you make 4,000 gallons a month? I'm making four gallons at a time on my stove. And so I looked at him and I said, yes, I'll figure it out.

In faith, I say yes. And so it took us a year to learn how to scale up from four gallons to 4,000 gallons. And so we actually launched in September of 2021, is where we finally launched in Ziggy's Coffee Chain. They have 62 stores in 14 states. And so we're brewing 4,000 gallons a month. And then we're in also about 15 other stores around the country, including, I think the closest one to you would be the Sharp Sickle in Rome, Georgia.

And wonderful brother, Andrew Riley, is over there. Where do folks go if they want to order Charlie Joe chai, the most amazing chai you've ever tasted? Now, I'm not a tea drinker or a chai drinker, so I've had staff sampling it and getting rave reviews thus far. Oh, awesome. So they got the samples? Yeah, but we had to get some milk or oat milk to mix it with because of the concentration. So anyway, we're just getting the initial responses.

We'll have more. I just got back from India myself, so we're just kind of spreading things out now. But for folks to go online, where do they go? So they go to Charlie Joe chai.com, and we sell a 64-ounce bottle. It's a concentrate, and you just mix it with equal parts milk, any kind of milk, hot or cold, and all the instructions around there.

It's really simple. And I made a special coupon code, ask Dr. Brown, and you get 10% off. Yeah, ask Dr. Brown.

A-S-K Dr. Brown, and you get 10% off. All right, and how many cups will you get out of a concentrated, one of these big concentrated bottles? 64-ounce will make about 16 drinks, depending on how strong you want it.

I recommend about four ounces per drink, and then you mix it with equal parts milk, and you could do even a little bit more milk because it is pretty potent because we use the freshest spices, and I've become a student of these spices. I call them the eight wonders of the spice world that our creators have, and they're so good for you. All right, hang on, hang on. There we go.

All right, we got a break here. We'll come right back, and we'll speak with my guest Charles Cipio. Go to CharlieJoeChai.com right now.

Check it out. Use the Ask Dr. Brown code, and I want you to- And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get on The Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us as I talk with my friend Charles Cipio about Charlie Joe Chai. He said, well, why are you doing a radio show on this?

Well, it's got a great history with the trips to India, the ministry trips together, and it's holiday time. I thought this is something that you'd really enjoy, all you Chai drinkers. You're going to be enriched by this. Maybe you've got a chain, and you'd like to start carrying this. By all means, look into a Charlie Joe Chai, and let's see.

There's Chai Spicy, Chai Original, Charlie Joe Chai Original, Charlie Joe Chai Vanilla B, and Charlie Joe Chai Unsweetened, so the four different flavors there. All right, so Charles, you, as I've seen you excitedly talk about rescuing another child that's been trafficked, who are you working with, and how did this, how did this come about? How is this work actually being done? Well, the best part of this whole thing, I do, when it was kind of, when it was starting, I thought if this wonderful beverage from India could be a blessing back to India, that would bring the whole thing full circle. Of course, we have our brother Yesupadam and Yesupadam in Visakhapatnam, who we worked with back in 1998, and I've kept in touch with, and I know you continue to work with, and so we are helping with love and care ministries, and typically give an end-of-the-year gift, and then as an ongoing thing, we're working with an organization called Life for the Innocent. They're based right here in Fort Collins, Colorado. I'm here in Colorado, so they're just about 30 miles north, and I met up with Chris Simmons, who's the head of this ministry and organization, and since 2012, they've rescued 20,000 kids in India, South Asia, and when I heard him speak a couple times, I just said, Lord, please somehow provide a way that I could help this brother, and then this door opened up, and in one year, about one year, we sold a million dollars to a guy and raised over a hundred thousand dollars to rescue kids from human trafficking through Life for the Innocent. We have a campaign, and it's not just us, it's like created a synergy, like our co-packer donated $25,000, now we want to donate another $25,000, our customer Ziggy's is doing a matching fund, so for every child we rescue, they're rescuing a child for this year, and so it's just, it's amazing.

That's the best part of this. When I wrote that first check to Life for the Innocent, I said, that's why God gave us this company, it's all about rescuing kids, and it just, this, it opens doors for the gospel in amazing ways. We have a wonderful relationship with a tea plantation in Assam, India, and we're working on getting all our spices direct trade from India so that we could build bridges for the gospel.

Tremendous. Just admit, who would have thought of this, right? Who would have planned this out? We'll go to India, we'll drink chai, we'll decide to make a chai company, and the chai company will help to rescue children, and how do the kids actually get rescued? How does this ministry do its work in India? So they actually go into brothels, and they purchase the kids' freedom, they do some raids, and they have, they have 130 safe homes around the country, with 900 trained counselors who are trained with at least a master's degree in dealing with kids that have been through this horrific trauma, and they deal, work with a network of like 20,000 churches, believe it or not, and so they have families that they are vetted.

It takes a year. They also get training on how to work with kids that have been through trauma, and so it's an amazing organization, lifefortheinnocent.org. Wow. Incredible. Incredible. And I mean, these are, it's unimaginable that these things happen.

It's unimaginable that these kids go through what they go through, but it is reality around the world, and to know you're making a tangible difference, and that person is going to be forever impacted. Praise God. How absolutely amazing.

So listen, let's just go back here and let you sell this chai to our audience here. By the way, how, what's the shipping speed of getting things now? It's December 14th. Some of the orders today, what's the quickest they'll get stuff? It's about five to ten days. It's closer to five days. We've been getting it out pretty quick, and I think, you know, we'll definitely get it there before Christmas. You go online, you order it, we ship to all 50 states, and... All right, so let's... A shelf stable does not need to be refrigerated for 18 months.

Once you open it, then you do need to refrigerate it, but so you could order it and don't have to worry about drinking it right away. All right, so let's just... But once you open it, you'll want to finish it. All right, the Charlie Joe chai spicy. What's that one?

Yes. Well, I would start with original. Original is most like the chai. If you got off the plane in Mumbai, you walk down the street, and on every little corner there's a chai wallop, that tastes like the chai you would have in India. And now the spicy is more of an American thing. It's more of like... It's just got more of the spices, and it's got a little kick, a little burn in the back of your throat. And so that's my favorite.

I like a little bit. Jenny... I made the original for Jenny. I made spicy for me. And then our Ziggy said, hey, do you have a honey vanilla? Because our customers really love that.

And I said, no, but I'll make that. And we made this honey vanilla. We went through 50 different honeys and vanilla and formulated this. And that's actually been the most popular, is the vanilla bee.

And that one is listed as... Although spicy is catching up. All right, vanilla bee is listed as bright and creamy. The original is smooth and sweet. Spicy is bold and intense. And then there's the unsweetened, which is lean and clean.

So tell us about that one. Well, I mean, many people are trying to cut sugar, including myself, and we had a lot of requests. So basically, I just took our chai and just didn't add the sugar, although I've never had chai in India that wasn't sweet.

So this is... But then you can take this wonderful unsweetened, and you could sweeten it with whatever you want. Some people just add like a teaspoon of local honey or monk fruit or stevia, or you could do it however you want it. But I like it just as is, even with no sweeteners. So it's just the black tea and the bold spices. And it's kind of the spice level somewhere between original and spicy.

So it's kind of right in the middle there. All right, charliejochai, so all this one word,.com. So if you're a chai drinker, I feel very confident you'll be thrilled with this and want to share it with your friends. It makes a great Christmas gift. But then know that with each purchase, you're ultimately helping rescue another child through lifeinnocent.org.

So charliejochai.com. Hey, last thing, we've just got a minute. What's the word doing in your own heart?

How are things going? What's burning in you these days? My heart is always for the nations. It's always to see God glorified in the nations, because I know that God has such a heart for the nations.

I just read your article on that, and I was like, amen-ing it. That will always be burning in my heart. And just to behold the beauty of the Lord with my own eyes and my own heart every single day, and to just continue to burn for Him. You know, those of us that have been through the Brownsville Revival never be the same, and I just want to see the kingdom of God expanded.

And I lead worship every Sunday still, and so I love leading worship, and I just love to lift up His name, and make disciples, and raise up worship leaders. And so, yeah, my heart is burning more than ever, and this company's only opened up doors more than I ever dreamed. So I feel like, pinch me, I must be dreaming.

Yeah, well, keep dreaming, keep dreaming. So friends, go to charliejochai.com. And then let Charles know, if you're enjoying it, tell me your favorite flavor, what you like best about it. Send a word of encouragement, and know that we're working together in the process to rescue trafficked children. Hey, Charles, keep up the great work.

One of these days, we'll minister together overseas. God bless, man. Amen. Ciao.

Love you. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on The Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Welcome, welcome to The Line of Fire. Here's the number to call. Any question of any kinds. We open the phones on Friday. We'll do it right now, 866-348-7884. Yesterday's show, my interview with Dr. Joe Matera about his book on apostolic ministry today. It was a great interview. I actually recorded that with Joe Monday afternoon after a radio show because I had to be available through the day for an important testimony, for an important court case. I can't talk about it right now, but hopefully by the end of the week, we'll be able to. I was able to, I had to be available basically from one in the afternoon until five, and I ended up testifying right through radio time. So we had that pre-recorded and ready, but because of that, because it was an interview, I didn't take calls yesterday. So phones are open, 866-34-TRUTH, and a little while, I want to comment to you about the signing of the Respect for Marriage Act and why I have issues with this and some of the larger agenda and what a Christian perspective on this should be. But first, to the phones.

We store it in South Florida with Nicholas. Welcome to the line of fire. Hi, how are you, Mr. Brown? Doing very well, thank you.

Mr. Brown, we've waited a long time to speak to you and we're very happy we got you online. We are a gypsy community, so basically we're like the, you know, like Jews. We don't associate outside of our culture.

We only marry inside of our culture. And the gospel of Jesus Christ has only come in, has only came to the gypsies 40 years ago. We have never knew about Christ, we've never knew about what he'd done on the cross for us. We was in a pagan type of ritual until 40 years ago. So because we're such of a niche community, we don't deal outside at all of our community. So we stay away from the rest of the world, and that's what the gypsies do. So the message of the cross came to us 40 years ago through one man, and he started teaching our gypsy community. And to the glory of God, we left many pagan rituals, and after 40 years, basically we established hundreds of churches in our community. The way of business for the gypsy community is lying, stealing, cheating, fortune-telling, sorcery.

That's the main source of the business, you understand? Which is horrifying. So now that we're in this part of our Christianity, a new doctrine has arrived among us since the past three years, and it's strongly manipulating our people, and our people is being infiltrated in hyper-grace theology. But that also touches the part that we have left fortune-telling and procrastinating, and we repented from all those things.

That's my cousin on the phone. We repented from sorcery, fortune-telling, and we gave our lives devotedly to Christ. So hyper-grace is crept in among us, and it's sweeping our original confession of Christ, and the community is becoming hyper-grace. And there's just a few, like me and my cousin that's on the phone, that's trying to defend our faith. And we're reaching out for you, if you can lend a hand to this community of about 25,000. So we do some live streams, Mr. Brown, and we get a lot of debates back and forth. But for some reason, our ministers in the community, they're saying, don't give them a platform, don't speak to them. But on their platforms, there's hundreds of people in the room that's being infiltrated every day. We need some advice to you.

What's the best way to handle this? And if you could come on our live streams one day, it will be greatly honored and appreciated. Well, it's fascinating to hear from you, because as I've ministered in different countries, you know, there are Gypsy cultures in different countries around the world, as you're well aware. And for example, the Gypsy culture in Italy is really very despised and is known for these very things, for thievery and being kind of on the outskirts of society and not good people. In Finland, the Gypsy culture was very different. The Gypsies were in the churches there. They were known by their distinctive dress, you know, the women in particular, distinctive dress and the culture of honor that they had and the various traditions they had. But they seem to have a longer-standing Christian history there. You know, the world heavyweight champion Tyson Fury comes from Gypsy culture in England, but I was totally unaware of Gypsy culture in America, absolutely unaware of it. So, you're saying the Gospel first came to your culture in America just 40 years ago? Just 40 years.

There is no recognized Christian in the past 40 years in our culture. Absolutely remarkable. All right, so obviously I would love to help. I'm assuming you have my book, Hypergrace. Yes, we read on it.

Okay, so you have the book already. Obviously, getting that out to others or asking them to read it or challenge them by it is important, but how can I help if I did a live stream? How would you get the right people to watch it?

How could I interact with questions? How could we do it to be most effective? All right, so since we've been teaching that Hypergrace goes against the doctrine of the Bible, we've been refuted repeatedly, refuted repeatedly. Even our own ministers are scared to touch this area because they don't know, because they talk about justification, and when the pastors, our pastors hear this, they don't want to refute that.

So the justification, the sanctification part is what we all, you know, what the pastors tend to veer from, and they don't want to touch it. So our people is just being infiltrated every day. My idea, if it fits well with you, is for us to make an international gypsy community that we're going live, like, let's say, in a week, two weeks from now, whenever your calendar date is available to us, and that we would bring you up on our platform of Instagram, and that we would just, you know, have a conversation, and that you would just speak on behalf of, you know... And that's the lie of Hypergrace, that people can hear, and we're limited in our knowledge. Right, break it down practically, and then if you had for me the principal questions that you run into, we could deal with those. Listen, this is obviously a very unique situation, and because of my international travels, one that's of tremendous interest to me. So let's do this. I've heard from you. Trust me, I will remember this call very much. Through our website, askdirectorbrown.org, there's something that just says contact, right? If you shoot us a note, just say, we talked about this on the radio, it'll get to my personal assistant, and then we'll strategize. It'll have to be next year, you know, early next year. The rest of this year won't work, but we'll find a time that works, give you time to advertise it, and by God's grace, we'll get the message of true grace out. Amen in Jesus' name. Dr. Brown, I just wanted to mention this. I believe out of all tribes, nations, and language, I believe the Gypsy community is a descendant of Cain.

Why? Because there's no other tribe on the nation that teaches their children from birth how to life feels cheap, and that's the way of life for us. You follow? Even the most, you know, undermined religions don't teach their children this, and because, you know, we just came to Christ 40 years ago, our people received Christ, they accepted Him, and they're on their way, and they're in the process of repenting and living, you know, a godly, fearing life. But since hyper-grace came in, it's teaching our people that we don't have to say no to unrighteousness because God finished it, you know, He's done it on the cross, we're not supposed to keep on acting for our forgiveness or repentance, and they're changing. Yeah, Nicholas, the sad thing is, and if you'll talk— My name is Milano. My name is Milano, I'm sorry.

Oh, okay, got it. So if you're talking to a hyper-grace teacher, they would say, no, no, when you understand this rightly, then it'll turn you away from sin, and I've told them, but the way you're teaching it, gives people a license to sin. All right, listen, we— Exactly. Right, so just write to us, doesn't have to be long, where it says contact, you'll be able to do that very, very easily, and God willing, we'll do this, we'll get on a live stream on Instagram next year, we'll teach about God's true grace, we'll dispel some of the areas of hyper-grace, and hopefully this can be a good holy shot in the arm for the community to continue to pursue the Lord and grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord and grow in holiness as God's righteous people. Hey, thank you, my brothers, Nicholas and Milano. May the Lord bless you, and may we see holiness loved in the Gypsy community by the grace of God. All right, God bless, thanks, and friends, you just got a new group to pray for. Pray for the Gypsies of America.

Yeah, get online, search, learn more about it. All right, let's go to Georgetown, Texas. Levi, you are on the line of fire. Yeah, howdy. Thank you for having me on, I was just gonna ask real quick, I get confused because there's like, with eschatology and Jesus comes back and exactly when and what happens when, and I was wondering if it's possible when he does return, if that can also coincide with the rapture, if the rapture in a sense can also coincide with the day of judgment, and so in essence, Christ is coming back, we're getting, you know, pulled up into the air, and the earth is also being judged at the same time. Is that scriptural, is that possible? Yeah, Levi, we never want to be super dogmatic about every detail of the future simply because it is future and it is laid out prophetically in scripture. But clearly, there's not a second coming and a third coming. Clearly, Jesus doesn't come, take us out, that's second coming, and then come seven years later again, third coming, bring us back.

It's all one event. There's a second coming, not a second and third coming. So, what you're saying is actually true, that he appears in the sky for the entire world to see, as Jesus said, like lightning shining from one end of the heavens to the other. He appears for the whole world to see at once. We are caught up to meet him in the air and we descend with him right then and there as he judges the wicked and establishes his kingdom on the earth.

So, it's one and the same event. Now, there'll be a final judgment where all human beings stand before God at what's called the great white throne judgment at the end of all things before we go into eternity. Yes, he will appear in glory at the second coming. The second coming in rapture, same thing, happens all at the same time. One event, we're caught up to meet him and he descends and destroys the wicked and establishes his kingdom. We receive rest, 2 Thessalonians 1, when he comes in flaming fire, taking vengeance on them that do not know God. Thank you, sir, for the call.

Good question. We'll be right back. And friends, for joining us, remember to download our app. If you haven't yet, Ask Dr. Brown Ministries. Join the thousands who are enjoying this on a daily basis. ASKDR Brown Ministries. Download it. Explore it.

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Download the app, ASKDR Brown, Ask Dr. Brown Ministries on Apple or Android platforms. All right, the Respect for Marriage Act is now codified law. If the Supreme Court was to come to the conclusion that when it redefined marriage in 2015, it was guilty of tremendous overreach and it did what the Constitution did not empower it to do and made a terrible mistake in doing so. And some of the concerns that were raised to Justice Kennedy, if you vote this way, it's going to be a direct attack on religious freedom and liberty in America. Well, hopefully it won't go that way.

Well, it's clearly gone that way. If the Supreme Court was to say, we made a terrible mistake, we're going to overturn that as they recently did with Roe v. Wade, it wouldn't affect anything because the Respect for Marriage Act has now codified this into law with the signature of the President and passing in both houses of Congress. You say, well, Dr. Brown, you should just embrace this, this is people want to marry, this is people want to, marriage is a good thing, marriage is ordained by God, this is a good thing, you should embrace it. And don't embrace it because marriage is not the union of any two people, marriage is the union of a man and a woman, that's the way God intended it and the only reason that the government is involved with marriage is because marriage conveys benefits on the government. And so the reason, the government doesn't tell you who you can date, right?

Government doesn't tell you if you can sleep with your girlfriend or not, doesn't tell you that, doesn't tell you if you can date four people at once, no, but marriage is something the government gets involved with and recognizes legally because marriage conveys benefits on the society, namely the natural ability to bring children into the world and then to join those children with a mother and father, which ends up being in the best overall benefit for the nation as a whole, that's the only reason the government gets involved with it. You say, well, who said it's got to be a man and a woman, why not just two people? Okay, why not three?

Why not? I mean, there are polygamists asking this question, why not three? Why not four? Why not five?

Well, why have any numerical limit? Well, because it's two. Well, why is it two?

It's two because it's a man and a woman. In other words, look, there's something, what was it, a polygamy, where people are marrying themselves. They said, I've had enough disappointments in life, I'm going to marry myself. There's actually a marriage industry doing this. Just look it up online, polygamy.

No, you can't marry yourself because marriage, by definition, requires a man and a woman, requires two people. And the only reason you need two is because the male and female have a certain function that is unique and they bring a child into the world in a unique way and can raise that child in a unique way. And the world's best dad is not a mom and the world's best mom is not a dad. So I know there are gay couples that love each other. I know it. And I know the gay couples that live their lives just like straight couples. They go to work, they have children they've adopted from previous marriages or brought into the world through some other means and they love their kids and they drive their kids to school, drop them off in the morning and they're maybe two lesbian moms or soccer moms. I understand that there are plenty of gay couples living just like straight couples and devoted to each other and devoted to the kids they're raising.

I understand that. It's just not marriage. It's just not marriage.

You say that's hateful. I didn't make the rules. I'm not the one coming up with this.

It's God who made male and female for purposes. And the thing is, once you embrace this, once you recognize this, then there are implications. Here, I want you to hear something. This is President Biden speaking yesterday at the signing of the Respect for Marriage Act and look at the subject that he brings up. Let's listen. We need to challenge the hundreds of callous, cynical laws introduced in the states targeting transgender children, terrifying families and criminalizing doctors who give children the care they need. We have to protect these children so they know they're loved and we will stand up for them and say I can seek for themselves.

Oh, hang on, hang on. What does transgender activism have to do with respect for marriage? Oh, because there's a larger agenda.

It's not an imaginary slippery slope. There is a larger agenda. It's not just L.G.

It's L.G.B.T.Q. Plus, there's a larger agenda. That's why President Biden invited a drag queen invited a drag queen to the White House for the signing of this. What does a drag queen got to do with this? A drag queen who's performed for two-year-olds and posted vulgar posts that I couldn't even dare talk about on the air here.

Yeah, why? Because there is a larger societal agenda and talk about trans kids. You know the cruel laws he's talking about? Saying that doctors cannot perform mastectomies on healthy 13-year-old girls because they identify as boys. Saying that doctors cannot give healthy 10-year-old boys hormone blockers to stop the onset of puberty that will chemically castrate that boy for life, a concept he cannot possibly understand at the age of 10 because he thinks he's a girl trapped in a boy's body.

That's what we're trying to say. Stop the madness. Stop the madness.

And the president is using this platform to say, oh, that's cruel. And we have to fight for the kids. Yeah, fight for the kids. Don't let them transition. Don't let them mutilate their bodies. Don't let them make lifetime decisions that are irreversible. Listen to the voice of the detransitioning young people saying, I made a terrible mistake.

I destroyed my life. Don't do what I did, please. As for the Republicans who voted for this in the Senate and the House, shame on them because the Republican Party platform was supposed to be a pro-family platform and to now codify this without protections for people. This does not protect the religious liberties of individuals and businesses and things like that, just narrowly for churches and some religious organizations. Otherwise, you're not protected.

You're not protected. This is an outrageous bill that never should have seen the light of day. Shame on those who voted in as Republicans with a conservative platform and went and did this.

And of course, shame on the Democrats for voting for it unanimously. You say, what do you do? Well, it's the law, so it's the law, but I don't recognize it as valid in God's sight. Simple. Just like plenty of things I don't recognize as valid in God's sight, but it is the law, so be it.

But for me to have to recognize it in a formal, legal way in terms of my actions or my words, it is the law, but I don't recognize the validity of this in the sight of God. All right, Phil Vischer, Christian, woman on social media, VeggieTales guy and popular. You know, popular. This is a snippet from a longer section, but I just want to play this and I want to ask a question.

If you know Phil Vischer or if you're familiar with the broadcast, it's a question I want to ask. Let's just play this clip. And I'm just trying, like even the notion that nothing genuinely conservative can last, at least not for long. How do we know if that's not a good thing?

How do we know what is and isn't good to conserve? If our only value is conservation of what Russell Kirk called the permanent things. And now who gets to decide what are the permanent things?

Where does that come from? Because for 100 years, what conservatives fought to conserve in America was racial hierarchy. That was the number one thing conservatives were fighting to conserve, because that was a permanent thing, because that was God established, because that was in the Bible. Because the one thing that all Confederate theologians agreed on in 1865 was that the Bible was on their side.

It was clear the Bible does not have any problem with slavery. So we are trying to conserve the permanent things. Slavery has always been a permanent thing in history.

These Northern Yankees who don't know how to read the Bible are trying to take away our way of life and we must conserve it. So now we say, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, but they were wrong. Oh yeah, that wasn't, that wasn't one of the permanent things. Now we know what the permanent things are and the permanent things are the nuclear family as came into existence in 1952. That's a permanent thing.

And heterosexual marriage. What else is permanent? Gun rights are permanent and small government is a permanent thing. And a big military is a permanent thing.

These are the permanent, because these, if you look at the history of what the conservative movement in America has been fighting for, it has changed over the years to kind of fit. Same thing with progressivism. We fight for different things depending on where we are, where we're situated, what period we're in. So to say all of this, I can decry David French as a heretic because he is not, he is not trying to conserve my permanent things. It's hard to disagree with you, Phil, and I'm not going to.

All right, so here's my question. Of course, in American history, there are plenty of Christians from the start who opposed slavery and pushed back against slavery using the same Bible. And ultimately, that's the view that prevailed. And as far as being conservative, I could care less about being conservative.

To me, I want to be biblical. So you've never heard me talk about limited government. You've never heard me talk about big military. You don't hear me talk about gun rights. Okay, those are not my issues. Those are not my issues. I'll have a guest on that may raise something, but these are not my issues.

These are not things I've campaigned for, talked about. But what I'm trying to figure out and maybe help me if you know the content better, Phil, clarify this. Are you putting marriage, male-female marriage, the only marriage known, recognized in the Bible, the marriage ordained by God, biologically ordained by God, natural law, clearly what is set up, with homosexual practice forbidden in scripture, where it is mentioned, it's mentioned, it's explicitly forbidden in every law, every custom, every tradition having to do with marriage, family presupposes male-female, honor your father, mother, husband loves your wives, wives submits your husbands, et cetera. Are you putting marriage as God intended in the same category as big military limited government gun rights? If so, sir, what Bible are you reading? If the quote's misleading, please clarify for us because you got a lot of people scratching their heads over that. This is another program powered by the truth network.