How the Coming Revival Can Change the Nation

I want to lay out today what the next wave of revival is going to have to look like if it's going to make a lasting impact. It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on The Line of Fire.

And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. To the broadcast, I am full of faith, full of expectation, full of confidence, full of hope. Because Jesus is Lord, because Jesus is risen, because the Word is true. Because all authority in heaven and earth has been given to the Son of God and we go in His name. The Holy Spirit lives within us. The Word of God has eternal promises that will stand when heaven and earth have passed away.

How can I not have hope, confidence, expectation? Light shines in the darkness for the righteous. God's mercies are new every morning. Thanks for joining us.

Michael Brown, delighted to be with you. You are going to be edified, stretched and blessed. And in today's broadcast, you're going to find some things that speak specifically to you in terms of how you can make a lasting difference as God is moving in America and we expect Him to move more profoundly in the days ahead. If you'd like to talk to me about anything, any question, of any kind, on any subject, just like we do on Friday, open up the phones.

I want to open the phones for you. 866-344-TRUTH, 866-348-7884. Specifically though, if you have any questions about revival or about outpourings of the Spirit or controversies that tie in with that, by all means, give me a call. 866-344-TRUTH. But anything you want to talk about, we can talk about. Also, I want to speak very, very plainly to issues having to do with accusations and criticisms after the massacre at Club Q Gay Bar in Colorado Springs over the weekend, an absolutely horrific event.

I've written about it, if you did not see my article where once again I denounce acts of violence against LGBTQ plus community, it's on our website, AskDrBrown.org, AskDrBrown.org. Or remember, just get your app, right? Oh, here it is. Grab my phone, get the app, Ask Dr. Brown Ministries, Ask Dr. Brown Ministries app. Just click, read the latest article.

There it is. And if you're driving in your car and we're not in your local radio station, you could be listening on your phone right now. Yeah, so get the app if you don't have it. Ask Dr. Brown Ministries on Apple and Android. Okay, so having been part of a historic move of God, the Brownsville Revival from 1995 to 2000, I was part of it, served as a leader from 1996 to 2000, having studied revival over the years, being deeply concerned about the state of America and the direction that we're going, the question comes up, what if God pours out his Spirit in a powerful way?

I expect he will. I know things are happening in many places all over America. I've gotten to minister in them. I've seen what's happening. I've seen the people coming to the Lord, the lives being changed, the dramatic outpouring of the Spirit. I'm seeing it happen.

I don't mean because of me. I'm saying I work with these different churches or get to minister in these different churches or know these different pastors, so things are happening. God is moving.

Maybe not everywhere, but in many, many places all over America powerfully. Let's say it increases to the point that we're saying we're in revival. Something's happening around America where there's a supernatural outpouring of the Holy Spirit, maybe with young people, maybe with certain locations, et cetera. But certainly something that we can, oh, something is happening. We're in a season of outpouring.

We're in a season of visitation. What must happen during this time if we are to see lasting fruit, if we are to see people touched in such a way that it actually changes the course of the nation? Remember, the activists that grew out of the counterculture revolution of the 60s, the sexual revolution, the radical feminists, the gay liberationists, others with their various ideologies that grew out of the 60s, they had an agenda because they thought America should be changed in different ways. In their mind, they were fighting for the right thing. If there's some woman at a Shout Your Abortion movement, she thinks she's fighting for the right thing and the woman should have a right to do this.

If someone is campaigning for redefining of marriage in years past, same-sex quote marriage, they feel they're fighting for a good thing, for a right cause. So people with very, very different mindsets, very different agendas, they want to change society accordingly. They get into the academia, they're going to teach a certain way. They get in the business world, they're going to influence it in a certain way. They're on media, social media, they're going to put forth their goals. They're involved in politics, they're going to vote accordingly and lobby accordingly. Just like we do for our views, they would do for their views.

I understand it. And in a country like America, you get to advocate and seek to bring about change. Many Christians are thinking, we're out of here any minute. It's all over. Jesus is coming any minute. Rapture is near and we're out of here. And because of that, we did not get involved and as a result, our kids and grandkids are growing up in an environment that is shocking, horrifying in many ways, and terribly, terribly grievous and dangerous. I was talking to someone very much in the political note today, just said, look, the radical left is Marxist.

It's that simple. And it's a fundamental threat to freedoms in America. So I believe that we will see a massive outpouring across the country. I believe that we're seeing seeds of it already in different places where the Holy Spirit's moving powerfully. Especially many young people coming to the Lord and getting dramatically saved and really following Jesus and going after him. Things are happening in many different places.

The Spirit is moving. Let's say the tide rises in such a way that we have a season of visitation. We have the first great awakening, the second great awakening, different revival movements through the centuries, different parts of the world in America as well. Let's just say that we enter into a season of revival and outpouring that lasts 10 years, okay? It doesn't mean everything stops after that, but the intensity of it. Let's just say theoretically, this is not a prophecy, let's just say theoretically it lasted 10 years, all right?

What must happen in it and as a result of it in order for us to see lasting fruit, okay? So when I was at a prayer retreat, oh, let's just see when this was. So as last August, August 15th, I journaled this. I wrote down 11 different areas where if the next wave of revival is to result in an awakening, right? So the revival in the church produces an awakening in the society.

This is what has to happen. I may write more on it in the days ahead, but as I was praying last night which direction to go on the show, I felt that this was important, all right? Not to focus on politics, but to focus on the church and what we can do to bring about lasting change, all right? So number one, and by the way, the order is the order in which I wrote them out.

If I write an article on this or a whole book on it at some point, I might change the order, but this is just how I wrote the things out as they were coming to me as I was thinking about them. Number one, the revival must feed into missions and evangelism and church planting. Okay, so that's an obvious thing, but it's the thing that must keep going. The power of the gospel is the power of transformation. The power of the gospel is it can change a bad person into a good person. The power of the gospel is it sets captives free. The power of the gospel is it changes people from the inside out, and that must always be our most fundamental spiritual weapon, prayer and the preaching of the gospel. These are things that are God's means of changing hearts and lives and thereby communities and societies, and that's why you can look in church history and see a nation was going in one direction and revival came, led to awakening in the nation and went in another direction.

There are historians that talk about England before and after Wesley and the movement that he was used by God to help spearhead, so it must feed into that. When I first went to the Brownsville Revival, remember this is a revival driven by the preaching of repentance to the church, get right with God, turn away from sin, and the preaching of repentance to the lost, come to Jesus, be born again. So it was preaching holiness in the church and harvest to the lost. That was the emphasis.

So there was this constant giving out, giving out. When I got there, God immediately dropped four E's, four words starting with the letter E into my heart. Number one, entrench. The revival needs to go even deeper. Number two, expand. Obviously you need more buildings or larger facilities and more workers. Number three was equip. We need to equip laborers for the harvest, and number four was export. Send the fire around the world. And then when I got home, God laid in my heart needed to raise up a ministry school in the midst of the revival to train those that were being touched and shared it with the brothers.

They confirmed it, and that's what we did. Within two years, we had over a thousand full-time students. Within four years, we had missionary grads serving in 20 nations. God just did it. I can't do that kind of thing. I've been involved with schools before and after.

I've never done anything like that. God did it. God caused it to grow because it was a supernatural season. It was a season of revival and outpouring. You say, well, how long does it last? Well, we just had our 23rd annual missions conference at our church, our home church fire, which helps support and oversee our missionaries all around the world. Some of them have literally been on the field now 23 years, touched in revival, changed, and out in the field.

How's that for lasting fruit? So as God's moving, if we want to see revival really become a cultural and societal awakening, it's got to feed into evangelism and missions and outreach. It has to. And church planting, it's got to birth church planting movements all over the nation because that is the way that God grows his church is through church planting.

All right, so that's one. Two, it needs to result in a wave of powerful ministries of compassion to help the poor and needy. If it's really going to carry the heart of God, if it's really going to bring about cultural change, then the church has to do what everyone believes the church should do, which is care for the poor and the needy. That out of this will be a launching of new ministries of compassion, a launching of new ministries that are caring for people on the ground level. It's near and dear to the heart of God. And it's a way also that the church brings positive change on the ground roots level and demonstrates the heart of God to a world that's often hostile. No, this is what the gospel is really about. This is who Jesus really is. So that's another thing that must happen. And I'll give you number three, then we've got a break. If the next wave of revival is to truly result in awakening, then we have to disciple couples to have solid marriages and parents to raise godly children.

Of course, singles are important to the Lord and will be important in the move of God. But because everything flows out of the nucleus of the family, there must be a concerted effort. There must be a concerted effort. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back to the line of fire. I'm going to go to the calls in a little while.

866-348-7884. Let me go through the rest of my list. The next wave of revival, if it's truly to result in awakening, it must feed into missions and evangelism and church planting. Number two, it must result in a wave of powerful ministries of compassion to help the poor and needy.

Number three, it must disciple couples to have solid marriages and parents to raise godly children. All these things we can be doing now. In other words, we don't have to wait for another wave of revival. But we have to be sure that as God moves with great outpouring that we consciously work in these areas. These are all things we can be doing now. So whatever your own calling, gifting, grace is, these are areas where you can serve, you can fit in.

There's something that's going to fit most all of us here. And obviously the prayer that births an outpouring is the prayer that's going to sustain an outpouring. Therefore the ministry of prayer is going to be more important than ever. Number four, if the revival is to truly result in awakening, then it must infiltrate the educational system from preschool to university. Remember, we're talking about if the revival is going to bring about a cultural awakening, if it's going to bring about a turning of the tide, what we've referred to as a gospel-based moral and cultural revolution, then it must infiltrate the educational system.

So how do you do that? Well, you do that by becoming teachers. You do that by becoming principals, administrators, librarians.

That's what others do. I was talking to a woman. She had a Ph.D. in education or philosophy of education or administration education, something like that, but was well-versed in the educational world and went to all the conferences, et cetera. And the National Association, was it the NEA, National Education Association, if I've got the acronym wrong, sorry about that, but the National Teachers Association, these kinds of things. She was at all these meetings and she said, I'm talking to her probably 10 years ago, and she said, oh, for a good 20 years, there's been a disproportionate presence of those who identify as gay, lesbian at these meetings.

It could be as high as 20 or 30%, whereas the known population would have been more like 2 or 3%. You say, what an evil thing, they're a pedophile. No, no, no. That's not the motivation.

That's not the motivation. The motivation is they feel that they won't have an impact in the educational system because in their mind, you know, gays get singled out or misunderstood, so let's get the kids more broad-minded and open. Yeah, I'm sure you have some perverts among them, just like you had heterosexual perverts, okay, that exists, all right, but most of them, they have an agenda and they want to get it in the schools and they believe it's for the children's good. Of course, I categorically disagree and say you're absolutely wrong in that, but they're in the schools, why shouldn't we be in the schools? Well, separation of church and state, I'm not saying come in carrying a Bible and you start every class by preaching it to kids and saying, you're all going to hell unless you pray the sinner's prayer right now, then you whack them over the head with the Bible. No, I'm talking about godly people who are good educators getting involved in the school, getting the trash out, getting the destructive agendas out, getting back to teaching basic things that kids should be learning in school, not how to use condoms, not how to identify their inner transgender identity in kindergarten, no, not talking about those things, talking about basic education, so we got to get involved, got to get involved.

For those watching, just spun my mic here, but all good, all good. Number five, we have to equip the church through solid apologetics. We have to equip the church through solid apologetics.

So what do I mean? Why is that important for awakening? Because we're going to be assaulted in our faith, we are being assaulted in our faith. I have a book coming out in March, God willing, on why so many Christians have left the faith. It's really, really important that we equip and that we have the body ready with solid answers because society is going to get more hostile, more and more things are going to trickle down through social media.

It's all the more important that we have good answers, solid answers. Number six, that we lose billions of kingdom dollars from Christian businessmen. In other words, there's got to be a spirit of generosity and all these things can be happening now, nothing has to wait until the time of Alpo.

In fact, the more that we're doing these things now, the more natural it will be as the Holy Spirit moves more powerfully to continue and deepen these things. But in order to fund the different programs, in order to fund world missions, thereby giving out what God has poured in, in order to help be involved in meeting the needs of those that are hurting, it's going to take all kinds of funding for voices to be heard more loudly on the national platform. So that's going to be necessary as well, that spirit of supernatural generosity among those that are generating funds. Number seven, we're going to have to raise up God-fearing politicians. Again, everybody has an agenda, right?

The radical left, the radical right, those that are more centrist, everybody has an agenda. So we're simply talking about people that are more God-fearing people, this is always a good principle. I was reading Thomas Jefferson, who was not an Orthodox Christian, but Thomas Jefferson said that, to paraphrase, unless we recognize our liberties are from God, right, our essential liberties are from God, then we won't be able to retain them. And if we think, now expanding on it, if we think that they came from a person and that the person could take them away or dominate or change the direction, if we realize fundamentally the freedoms we have are not from the government but from God, this is Thomas Jefferson.

That's the only way to maintain them, paraphrasing what he's saying. So why not have more God-fearing politicians? If we're supposed to pray, if we were under a king, right, pray for kings and rulers to be saved, that we could live quiet and peaceful lives in all godliness and honesty, then why shouldn't we pray for godly politicians to be elected?

And why shouldn't some of us do it? You want to know how to change things in your local school in terms of curriculum and agenda? Change the school board. And these are being flipped across the country, by the way.

Lots of school boards are being flipped across the country. Well, people who have very different views, they got elected. Well, let's get people who have views that we think are better for the kids and better for the community. Get them elected.

So that's another thing that has to happen. Number eight, engage the culture wars and the power of the spirit. So not just have our apologetic.

Not just have our answers. Not just explain why, say, homosexual practice is contrary to God's ways and design and contrary to his best. Not just have that part, but also have the power of the spirit to change lives. Speak words that penetrate hearts. Words of love, words of truth, but words of the power of the spirit. Just like Paul wrote to the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 2, he said, When I was with you, I was with you in weakness and fear, and much trembling in my speech and preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the spirit and power.

So your faith wouldn't stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. The same way we bring a message, we say God's ways are better, and then it comes in the power of the spirit to transform lives. Number nine, cultivate a deeper life in the church and bring larger reformation when needed. There's going to be a cultural awakening the church has to become what the church is called to be. And that is a body, a family, an organism that is filled with God. And the working of God has to be clear in our midst and where change and reformation needs to come in our midst.

Where the church is part of the problem rather than the solution. Then we've got to cultivate that and we've got to grow in that. And we've always got to be saying, Lord, we lay everything out before you. Show us in your word, show us by your spirit how to please you, how to honor you.

Show us what's right, show us what's wrong. Number ten, we must make our message ubiquitous on social media. If these platforms are there, let's fill them with truth. Let's fill them with love. Let's fill them with grace. Let's fill them with testimony. Let's use them.

We have open doors, let's use them. Run hard bonky with the Lord now, but one of the great evangelists of this last generation. Maybe led more people to the Lord than any man in history.

It's possible. In terms of the crowds that he spoke to, the tens of millions over the decades that he spoke to and preached to. But certainly a significant evangelist.

So people told him about Facebook and he thought, well, I don't want to get on Facebook. And then as he said, then one day I saw a pulpit. Facebook became a pulpit. So he'd get up early in the morning, start seeking God, I don't know, four or five in the morning.

And just get these pithy sayings, these ideas, these quotes, these scripture references with little commentary. And he would post through the day and suddenly he's got a million Facebook followers. Boom! Exploded.

And then two million and up until he passed away with cancer he was posting regularly. So let's use, let those be our pulpits. And then of course 11, deepen our prayer base.

These are just basic things, common sense things. But in the midst of outpouring you're often so thrilled with what God is doing in the here and now. So thrilled with the lives being changed that you're not thinking, okay, long term, beyond this, how can we shift the direction of things? How can we change the cultural tide so that it's going in a better direction? How can the church have more of a healthy, godly, life-giving influence on the society? Those are the things we have to think about. When God called me to Brownsville I was burning with one thing, long term fruit, long term fruit.

That's what the other brothers were burning with. Steve Hill would often say the true testament of evangelist ministry is five or ten years down the line. Now we can look at 27 years from when the revival began, 22 years roughly from when it waned, we can see the fruit that remains that continues to grow.

The children and the grandchildren of those who were touched in revival going out and making a difference. Okay, we come back, I'm going straight to the phones. Just looking at our phone lines jammed here, I'm going straight to the phones. We come back and then right at the end, before we're done, I want to share some very sober thoughts about the aftermath of the massacre at the gay bar and how people are using this for their own purposes.

We're going to overcome that in Jesus' name by speaking the truth in them. By calling 866-34-TRUTH, here again is Dr. Michael Brown. My friends, let's go straight to the phones, 866-348-7884.

We'll start with David in Massachusetts. Welcome to the line of fire. Good to talk to you again, Dr. Brown. Hey. How are you? Happy Thanksgiving to you.

Thank you. Yeah, I just wanted to share that I was born and brought up Catholic and have raised our children in a Christian denomination. But I've got lots of Jewish friends and I was invited to a sukkah for the first time in October post the holiday. And I just thought it was a fabulous experience and we sat with, I don't know, in the range of twelve other people, six other couples. One was a rabbi and I was sitting next to the mentor of the rabbi. And I just had this fabulous conversation and I just wanted to share it with you because it was just one of those moments in time that I was in this new experience.

I just thought the beginning, the openness, the vulnerability, the way people were was just awesome. And I talked about the fact that I've been reading the Bible and have, over the last four or five years for the first time, and I had called in previously and mentioned this to you, but I'm on my fourth read and I feel pretty good about what I've learned. And then I sat next to this rabbi and our mentor who is an academic in Jewish studies. And it was like, unless I know Hebrew, I'm not going to really understand the Bible. At least, you know, and I'm being facetious in a way, but it was very interesting because they just believed that you really needed to learn the language.

And I just wanted to chat with you about that. Yeah, well, in point of fact, that's why I ended up majoring in Hebrew in college and getting a PhD in Near Eastern Languages and Literatures from New York University. Because I was challenged on that by the rabbis when I first got saved. And they would tell me, how can you tell us what to believe when you can't even read Hebrew? Now, in terms of their hope, it actually backfired in that the more I studied, the more convinced I became of the rightness of what I believed.

But it does make sense. You know, for example, if I'm going to discuss the Quran with a Muslim and tell him that what he believes about the Quran is wrong, and I can't read Arabic and he's read Arabic his whole life, well, I can understand how that can be held against me. But on another level, David, there are fine translations.

In other words, it's one thing to engage in polemics. It's one thing to do what I did in terms of being called to apologetics and going back and forth with rabbis and in-depth interpretation of individual verses and battling over that and the Hebrew says this and that. It's another thing to simply read the Bible and learn about God and grow in your relationship with the Lord. And there are excellent, excellent translations by scholars who know the Hebrew really well and who know the Greek really well, and who could hold their own with a rabbi or a Jewish scholar in terms of what the Hebrew actually says.

So, that's fine. So, there are going to be differences of interpretation, but there are reasons. In other words, they may say, well, here in our Bible it reads differently.

Well, sometimes it's the presuppositions of a Jewish scholar versus the presuppositions of a Christian scholar, or the word can be translated one way or the other and based on our larger theological system, that's how we'll translate it. But the fact is, what you can always do is if you get into a more in-depth discussion, say, okay, well, how would you translate this into English? Okay, or let's say you have a Jewish translation you like and then compare it and you can see where the differences are. But in your own life, your own walk with God, you know, you can feel very confident with English translation. And the reality is it would take you many, many years of study, perhaps decades of study, before you could even intelligently differ with the translator. So, for years you'd be going back because you don't, it takes a while to learn the language. So, yeah, you can feel confident in our English translations and then if you're really called to polemics, debate, that kind of thing, then it makes sense to learn the languages more deeply. May the Lord continue to give these relationships, though, and that you have more friends in the Jewish community and get to interact and hopefully the light of Messiah will shine through you into them.

But thanks for sharing that, I appreciate it very much. 866-34-TRUTH. We'll go to Jonathan in Ohio. Are you still there? Okay, we lost Jonathan.

Let's go over to Dale in Denver, Colorado. Welcome to the line of fire. Thank you, Dr. Brown, nice to talk to you.

Thank you. I guess I just had a view, not so much a question, but I guess I look at revival in a really direct way, as far as the biblical narrative, that it's always God's kingdom against Satan's kingdom, and it's shown in power. So, you know, in the Exodus, that's kind of the narrative, is that, you know, here's the Pharaoh and here's Moses, and you've got your tricks up your sleeves, and God's got absolute power or something to you over Satan's kingdom. And I think we'll see that, especially if it's in the context of the last revival, is that we'll just, you know, it'll be reported on the news that people are being delivered out there on the streets. Got it, so demonstration of God's power is something that we should be expecting to see, vanquishing the kingdom of darkness. Yeah, I agree with you, that in principle, it is spiritual conflict coming in, so that's always there, 24-7, that's always there, the spiritual conflict, the clash between kingdom of darkness, kingdom of light, that's always there. But, in times of great outpouring, then there's going to be a greater manifestation of God's kingdom, therefore, a greater manifestation of his power, and therefore, lives more dramatically change, that's what happens in revival. Again, when you talk about deliverance and the vanquishing of the kingdom of darkness, yeah, I expect to see more of that openly as well, I expect to see, as I've said in recent weeks, more demonic activity that's open. In other words, the closer we get to the end, and it could be 100 years from now or 10 years from now, God knows, but the closer we get to the end, I expect that Satan will be less and less covert and more and more overt, we see it in certain ways already.

And it's the same way, God's power more and more overt. Hey, thank you for the observation, I appreciate it. 866-34-TRUTH, let's go to Steve in Torrington, Connecticut, welcome to the line of fire. Hello Steve, are you there? Alright, looks like we lost Steve. Oh, oh, oh, alright Steve, you can call back. Alright, when I didn't hear you, I cut the line off, but Steve, if you're still listening, go ahead and give us a call back. Let's go over to Malcolm in Colorado, welcome to the line of fire. Hey, it's certainly nice to meet you. Hey. I've been doing a lot of research into a lot of your studies, actually.

You and James White have been very big inspirations for me. I actually wanted to ask you a question. I've been trying to ask some synagogues, some rabbis this question as well. I've been doing a lot of reaching out to Catholics on the Deuterocanonicals, and I was really wanting to ask you, do you have any great literature on how to really prove that Orthodox Jewish faith never really accepted the Deuterocanonical books of the Apocrypha? I've been having a lot of issues convincing Catholics that this is the case.

They simply just run the Catholic Answers and just accept whatever they hear on Catholic Answers blindly. Right, so all of Talmudic literature, which is authoritative for rabbis, plainly says that the Canon of Scriptures is what we have. There's not dispute on that within Judaism, and it's, in Talmudic literature, it's fixed at the time of Yavneh, which is the end of the first century of this error. But, if you want to do some academic study on it, check out the writings of Sid Lyman, L-E-I-M-A-N, on the Canon of Scriptures. So, this is from a Jewish perspective, the Canon of Scripture. L-E-I-M-A-N, or Roger Beckwith, B-C-K-W-I-T-H, has some excellent writings on the Canon of Scripture and gives a lot of Jewish background and perspective. But, for rabbinic Judaism, which is ultimately, Pharisaical Judaism becomes rabbinic Judaism, and that was the Orthodox Jewish expression over the centuries, it's based on Talmudic literature, and within Talmudic literature, Scripture is only what we would call the Old Testament today. So, even though you had other books in the Septuagint, which would be the Catholic argument coming back, that was ultimately not considered to be all Scripture. The other thing is, if you want to dig in more in the Septuagint, Immanuel Tov, T-O-V, would be a top Jewish Septuagintal scholar.

So, Beckwith is not Jewish, Sidleiman, and Immanuel Tov are. These are works that have been around for some years, but are highly recognized as authoritative. The other thing, if you just want to get a quick online source, the Jewish Encyclopedia is online. It's over 100 years old, but it's the top Jewish scholarship of the day, and it's going to give you an excellent overview on what the early rabbis taught. So, just go to jewishencyclopedia.com and search for canon, and you'll get more background there.

So, these other books I mentioned by these other authors, that'll give you further depth, but if you just want to get some good authoritative Jewish sources online that are free, Jewish Encyclopedia, and search from there. Hey Malcolm, God bless, I appreciate the call, and always glad to be associated with my buddy, Dr. White. All right, we go. Thanks for reconnecting, Steve, in Torrington, Connecticut. You're on the line of fire.

Hey, Dr. Brown. So, I got a question for you. My mom, who is also a believer, and I have been going around on the United States' use of nuclear weapons in Japan, and her position is that it's morally sickening, but not morally evil. And my position would be more in line with Brian Zond, which is, this level of nationalism is beyond what Jesus allows for us.

What's your take on that? So, I'm no expert on the subject, I'm no expert on World War II, but first, this is not a Christian issue, this is an American World War issue. In other words, America was not saying, as Christians and followers of Jesus and loving our neighbors, we're doing this. This is America as a nation, fighting other hostile nations. So, let's start, it's got nothing to do with Christian nationalism whatsoever, it's simply something in the midst of the horrors of war.

Alright, I'll finish on the other side of the break. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks, friends, for joining us on The Line of Fire. I'm gonna speak very, very bluntly about a very prevalent, relevant issue in a moment, but Steve, just to finish up here, and by the way, when I open the phone for questions of any kind, this is perfectly, this is welcome, this is good, this is fine. You say it's off topic, there was no topic for the call, so all directions, that's just great.

And it's a fair question to ask, so Steve, what your mom says, morally sickening but not morally evil, I would relate to that, meaning this was a national decision. For example, when a policeman is pursuing someone on a high-speed chase, and they're thinking, okay, this person, they're gonna kill somebody on the road here, and they're already running from arrest, they beat somebody up, and now they got in the car and took off. If that policeman can stop them, they stop them. Well, can you lead them to Jesus? Well, that's not the issue right then, that's not the job of the cop.

And if that person starts to shoot at the cop, the cop's not thinking, how can I win him over, what can I do to shed the love of God with him, no, he's a policeman, he's law enforcement, and that guy's shooting, he's gonna take him down. It's that simple. So, again, I am not a historian of World War II. I'm not a war historian, I'm not a modern historian, okay?

This is all second, third, fourth hand, everything I'm saying here, I'm not speaking with any authority like I would on other issues. But, what those have said who justify the bombing is that it brought about horrific suffering, but stopped much more suffering. In other words, that hundreds of thousands of lives were dramatically impacted and innocent civilians were slaughtered and killed in the midst of this. But it stopped many millions more from dying in the war and therefore was a justifiable act.

That's the answer. Now, again, this is not a Christian issue in terms of what the nation's doing, this is in the midst of war, right? So, taking out the Nazis, stopping the Japanese attempts to dominate the world, that many millions more would have died, and therefore as horrific as this was, that it was morally justifiable because it stopped millions more from dying. That would be the answer. But to say Christian nationalists, that's not the issue.

And if anyone framed it like that, that wasn't the issue. The issue was a war between, a world war affecting tens of millions, hundreds of millions of people ultimately, and this was the rationale, a way to shorten the war and stop more suffering. It's like the person with gangrene and their foot spreading to their leg, you amputate the leg to save the body, the same rationale. But war is hell, there's that saying, war is filled with atrocities. And that's what, you know, people are perpetrating atrocities on you, they're going to die for it. You're going to fight back and innocent people are going to suffer as a result of it, that's what happens in war, it's tragic. But in the midst of that, Christians are now trying to reach out and do what they can in a compassionate way. So that's my response, sir. Alright, so yesterday I talked about the fact that there's the horrific shooting, several horrific shooting stabbings in the last few days, just headline grabbing, but the biggest one, the massacre in the gay bar, club Q. I just checked the gay website advocate.com right before coming on the air and still have not found that there is a motive that has been given by the shooter.

He was hospitalized after getting kicked and beaten, pistol whipped, as patrons at the bar were able to subdue him. But at this moment, listen, I've missed it, I've not heard a motive release, that hasn't stopped people from saying, it's Christians like you, it's Christians like you, you've created this atmosphere of hate. Let me be as blunt as I can, I addressed this yesterday, but I want to address it again.

I'm not just speaking into the air here. For example, I just found these posts on social media today on our AskDirectorBrown Facebook page. I'm not going to mention the people's names, and some of the posts got deleted because we don't want this type of dangerous speech on our sites. But one woman said, as long as people like you denigrate gay people, these hate crimes will continue. You don't get to denounce these acts when you're the cause of them.

So this is remarkable. First, we don't know, as far as I know, to this moment, we don't know why the shooter did what he did. He could have just been mentally ill, it could have been a lover's quarrel with this gay lover, it could have been that he's a homophobe.

Right? And thinks that if he doesn't kill the gays, they're going to kill him. But we don't know, alright? I can tell you this though, if he was listening to me, he would know that no matter how much you differ with homosexual practice, you love your gay neighbor. He would know that even if you think that this person is trying to indoctrinate your children, you pray for them, and you don't do them any harm.

And you speak the truth, and you work against the indoctrination, but you don't murder someone. Telling you, teaching you, instructing you to hold to what scripture says, means hold to what scripture says, which is that we love people. We are called to love our neighbor, gay or straight. We are called to love people. I've said in churches for years, if you cut us, we should lead love. I remember sitting with a local gay activist years ago, young man, having lunch together, and he, as we were talking, he said, Dr. Brown, I misjudged you.

I thought you were doing this like there was some political gain or something you were trying, I misjudged you. And I started to cry, I was sitting there at the table with him in a restaurant, tears pouring down my cheeks, I said, I just want you to know the Father's love, man. I just want you to know the Father's love. And he ended up writing an editorial, you know, a prayer for Michael Brown, saying the guy's, the guy's loony, he's off his rocker. It's the only thing you could, because he saw I genuinely cared about him, but I differed, well, how could you, how could you differ then?

Well, because of God's words and God's ways, but in his mind, I had to be off my rocker. So he wrote an editorial about me, and she notes the local gay publication for North and South Carolina, and they let me write a response, which was a prayer for him, and reinforcing the truth. I wrote to this woman, so saying that God's ways are best leads to murder, seriously? Let's turn this around, perhaps your slanderous attack on me here will lead one of your people to kill Christians. The difference between us is that I call for love of those we oppose, your provoking anger and hatred.

Then I saw someone else, this is an ongoing thread on the S. Dr. Brown page, hasn't been removed yet. I can only speak for myself, but attitudes like yours are the reason the LG, the whole list there, community is afraid for their lives, marriages, and children. Use your God's rule as a weapon so pitiful, you're applied to your life, not everyone else. It is hateful rhetoric, and not the least bit which you claim is Christ-like. Shame on all of you for demonizing, demoralizing, and dehumanizing people simply for who they love. A way to represent Jesus and his command to love one another.

Fail. So, I didn't read all the comments, but folks are interacting with this gentleman and setting him straight on things. So, in other words, we're not allowed to say that homosexual practice is wrong in God's sight. We're not allowed to say that two men or two women marrying is not marriage in God's sight. We're not allowed to say we don't want drag queens reading to our toddlers in libraries. We're not allowed to say we don't want 13 year old girls getting mastectomies because they're confused about their gender identity.

We're not allowed to say that because if we say it, we're demonizing and dehumanizing people. In point of fact, for almost 20 years now, as I've spoken on these issues a lot at the leading of the Lord and at the request of others, I constantly, just search online for my search on can you be gay and Christian. Just go to YouTube, put in my name, Michael Brown, can you be gay and Christian, and you'll see a whole sermon.

And this is one of many, but I constantly go out of my way to humanize. I constantly say, listen, there's a 15 year old kid, you know, could be in the service today. He's suicidal, he thinks God hates him, he thinks the church hates him just because of the feelings that he has. And he came to his service today wanting to know if there's any hope. You know, what's he going to leave with? And what happens when a guy wearing a dress comes into your church carrying a Bible praising the Lord?

What do you do? I say take him out for lunch, get to know him, pour the love of God into him. I've said this, Rich, I've talked constantly about same sex couples who love each other as much as a heterosexual couple and love their kids as much as a heterosexual couple loves their kids. At the same time, I say these practices are wrong. Okay, here's what people are missing. If there's anger, it's not coming from someone like me who's going to always put out the Jesus weapon. As long as I've been talking about Jesus revolution over 20 years now, it's like a broken record. We overcome evil with good, we overcome hatred with love, we put down the sword, we take up the cross.

Why? Because using terms like revolution, I want to be totally clear, we're talking about gospel transformation. Can I be totally blunt? You want to know where the focus should be if you're wondering why some people are angry? That's talking about murder, but why parents are angry, why others are angry. It's because their kids are being sexualized in school. It's because drag queens actually use language that's about grooming and indoctrinating the kids.

I mean, documented, no one out there. It's because parents grieve when they see three-year-olds at a gay pride parade with lesbian moms as there's some float with almost nude men gyrating on the platform in there, and that's normal. That grieves them. And then when you're going to bring curricula into schools and talk to preschoolers, and this is a little document.

You see the videos where the preschool teachers are boasting about how they're talking to the four-year-olds about gender and genitals and identity and I myself am NB, I'm non-binary and I'm your teacher. That's what's getting people upset. No, not to murder somebody, but what's getting people upset is the extremism of the gay activism. That's what's getting people upset. People weren't upset in the same way about Pete Buttigieg and running for president and he and his partner and Chasten and his spouse and all this. That's not what people...people didn't like that, but they weren't outraged over it. The outrage is over the sexualizing of children, of the aggressive trans activism and biological boys sharing locker rooms with biological girls. That's what's getting parents angry. On my end, I'm going to say, let's do the right thing and let's love my neighbor as I say shame. Shame on those who try to use the massacre of people to now weaponize criticism of Christians holding to biblical values. Shame on them.