The Intersection of Politics and Religion; and Pastor Robert Jeffress Explains His Comments on Same-Sex Marriage

The gospel, politics, culture, how much do they intersect were in the world not of it was me stage for the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry to the line of fire valves like always 866-34-TRUTH that's 866-34-TRUTH. Jim is Dr. Michael Brown will actually ended up writing about this yesterday. I discussed it on the air. We got some great calls ended up writing an article that you can read on her website on the far that should Christian leaders stay out of politics will have a very practical discussion with you and recent pertinent issues will talk them through together here on the line of fire.

This is Michael Brown your voice of moral sanity and spiritual clarity in the midst of a society in chaos in the church. All too often in compromise friends. This is our our shyness is our to make a difference. This is our our to share our faith. This is our our to be unashamed of the gospel. If you're listening to all two hours of the show.

Today we've got some important things come your way and interview with an attorney with the alliance defending freedom. Some major news. It important case we are talking about whole half hour from now run 90 minutes from now you speak to Pastor Robert Jeffress, pastor First Baptist Church in Texas. He made some remarks little over a week ago that same-sex marriage that Herod had many Christian conservatives concerned in his income on the air and share what he was saying and where he believes is been missed understood again to get all of the broadcast discovered a lot of fire.org it's always archived there within a couple hours of the show finishing and you can subscribe there for free to get it by podcast right a few things out. I want to discuss before I talk gospel in politics, but will actually this is gospel in politics the sovereignty of God in these elections is now being reported that there was a typo typo on on the part of a techie and IT guy working for the Democratic Party. John Podesta staff received an email called a fishing email were were someone is trying to get you to respond to get your private information and it said it is meant to look professional like it's coming from your company you're dealing with, or that the software that you're using same kid is there's been an issue. You need to change your password and what you do now is put any password into someone this case in Russia but hacking you that's the case, and you put your password and and now they have it so that I can access all your emails and that's what happened you so everybody knows that the responses will apparently a staffer saw this email and look legit.

This staffer went to someone in IT and asked were sent it to them to ask and the person said it's legitimate right.

It's legitimate so they went ahead put new password. That's of the emails got hacked and that helped to work against the Clinton and in the Democrats because there was so much junk in their emails so much junk from from John Podesta, who was directing the campaign some outrageous things to how much they ultimately affected the elections again. We don't know, but according to the story he meant to say it's illegitimate it's an illegitimate email.

Instead, he typed. It's a legitimate email meant to type. It's an illegitimate email which don't respond to it. Instead he typed.

It's legitimate and that that one typo saying it's a legitimate email assisting.

It's an illegitimate email could potentially have swung enough people negatively towards the Democrats that it helped win election for Donald Trump. Was it just coincidence fluke with hand of God to me were those who are lost. You have to say is the hand of God, for better or worse, intervening in these elections, pretty wild, or should we mix politics and religion gospel interface with politics. We talked about this yesterday. I want to flesh out a little more today I file the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get another minor fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Ultimately cares about you and this was about five years ago and I debated Prof. Bart Berman on the problem of suffering does the Bible provide an adequate answer to the problem of suffering. Ohio State University packed out student centered great response on Lifestream as well and we have that DVD available that was an atheist, talking to Matt our producer who is, therefore, debate, and giving his impressions about the debated atheist after the debate you fascinated now all of our DVDs. All of my debate. DVD special teaching DVDs. Even my 22 hour series on countering the counter missionaries all of them are available 25% off on the website to take advantage of that right it's it's a great offer were trying to do some special things in the month of December to be a blessing to all of you that have been such a blessing to us through the year, so go to the line of fire.ward okay so here's here's the question to what extent does the gospel interface with politics. Some would say Jesus said in John 18, my kingdom is not of this world with me set the font to pilot was my service which would fight that I wouldn't be handed over to the Jewish leaders right but but my kingdom is from another place Paul says in Philippians chapter 3 our citizenship is in heaven. So, some would say our calling is is a high and lofty calling, which doesn't intersect with politics. We preach the gospel. We seek to win the lost. We we care for that they're hurting and the needy. We we raise godly families. We seek to be a positive influence in the world around us. But what comes to politics. That's of the world. Therefore, we don't interact with that or interface with that, especially his Christian leaders. Was it really gets messy because now you associate the gospel with politics you associate the cost with the Democrats and Republicans you associate the gospel with Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. Associate the gospel with with bickering over positions rather than scripture, so it takes us away from our calling. It brings us down to an earthly level instead of pursuing a high spiritual calling this one that he says will God's word is practical in every area of life. God's word in the Old Testament addressed issues of Kingston and people communities in the New Testament addressed issues of what our conduct should be in this world and in the midst of monarchies and dictatorships and things like that and for to be the salt and the light of her to be watchmen on the wall. If we are to speak words of life and truth to the world wide would be politics out our kids come home from school there being pressed with various issues having to do with this world and society and and and critical skeptical views of many things in life and questions of sexuality and on and on.

Don't be sit down with them and talk practically and if they supply am hearing this about this candidate or his but that candidate or words of his having my school because it because of new policies administered by the government.

Do we sell all this worldly stuff. We don't interact with.

Of course we interact with. It will and why wouldn't our pastors and our leaders interact with why would Nye is a Christian leader as his ministry leader talk about that as well. For practical purposes, right 866-34-TRUTH 87884 when I put out the questions the question yesterday to you my dear listeners as to whether you find it beneficial that I address cultural issues, societal issues, political issues virtually every caller said yes and that's the overwhelming input we received again. I was not asking you tell me what I should talk about on the radio that I do my best work out before the Lord with my team.

Of course, listening to and learning from what helps you, but ultimately we have a certain assignment that was of my assignment was to talk about science and and and he loved it when I talk about sports. Everybody loved it when I talk about sports. It is like a lifetime of seismic is not turn into sports station.

I'd say our sports program.

I figure okay how can I talk about science in a way that will actually be positive and its effect on but overwhelmingly we received calls of affirmation and encouragement is generally happens. The few times I've asked that question over the years to see if this really helps us a lot and there's just so much angst and so much pressure and and so much confusion about the elections that having you talk about these things and bring Scripture into it was really helpful. Others see it differently.

That's why I wrote that article a few Christian leaders stay out of politics, I believe there are ways when we do hurt the gospel we become so identified with the candidate or with a party that compromises the gospel or we become so identified with a particular political movement that that becomes our highest allegiance. It seems even more than our allegiance to the Lord and to his people. There always readily we can hurt our witness, but otherwise I say the gospel interfaces with every area of life in the rear of the world of politics is no more worldly in that respect in business than anything else that we live in and working and seek to influence positive agreement that you made different phone lines are open 866-348-7884 will start in New York with Eric.

Welcome to the line of fire's are I background I just want to say that I'm a trooper. That's our part of the community. Now). For how long Eric.

While it's been about 15 years. Five you know why I really lately I've been really focused on my studies I Bible studies up great.

I am a an interesting take on the politics and religion.

My ex-wife was a Jehovah witness. So I learned a lot from that that they really really stay out of the political and actually you know the more you know, participating more and I Frankly I weighed about.

I mean, obviously, surrounded by the world.

Like you said elsewhere, I would have political discussion that everything on in terms of really like II looking at terms of warning for political office as a true Christian I think should be ghettoized like an occupation should be refrained from, but that doesn't what you think will why would you first appreciate you wrestling with this Jehovah's Witnesses have often suffered for the convictions. Of course there called their teachings very wrong. There documents is terribly wrong. We understand that there Bible translations is very report suicide by pitting them in their integrate legalistic pressure to perform and and talk to certain numbers of people, but they have suffered for their convictions and and they do have a certain otherworldly perspective when it comes to politics and things with Eric. Think of this first Timothy two, Paul says that we should pray for King's rules. Those in authority right we can live peaceful godly lives etc. so what if we pray for a king or political leader and that person gets saved that a good thing or a bad thing right so if they can get saved in office. Why can't they be saved and called to serve and in politics. Those white why do we make a distinction there.

It's okay you can be called to be a businessman you can be called to to to conduct an orchestra. You can be called to have a computer software company that you can't be called to be a political leader is a political leader think you can stand for justice. You can stand for righteousness. You can stand for the poor and the oppressed. You can do so much good. Why wouldn't that be an area that God would call someone into your own now. I guess because a lot like what you described that you know when not of the world. We partake were supposed to pay our taxes and partake in a while, but not really begin the culture and made a political and is like really participating in the culture of the world. I disabled really really serve once is when not of the world means work when out of the spirit of this age and that we we do not partake in worldly, carnal, sinful things the priorities or goals are to be different than those of worldly people and some would say politics is so corrupt and so worldly that you can enter into as a Christian, but many would say no as godly people stand our ground and of God opens the door for us to be elected. We serve and if we have to compromise our convictions being worldly elected them to do this. I think that's the way so that the thank you sir for your call for cleansing and the Expo line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown your voice and more cultural and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

I think Jews do have a certain authority in looking at light of Jesus because he was a Jew and he kept Judaism.

Let us recall that the religion of Jesus was not Christianity was Judaism.

The reason why that means that Jesus ate kosher food. We know this because even the Jerusalem church continue the kosher food and was critical of Paul and Peter and those who know we no longer were keeping kosher Jesus defendants when when the Sabbath is not been Giving very good arguments. He keeps Jewish Sabbath religion is Judaism so we were right to school.

Let's I don't as a pejorative. We were right to share with our Christian brothers and sisters Jewish disease which enriches their faith. That is my good friend Rabbi from Volterra from our debate. Who is the real kosher Jesus moderated quite passionately by Sid Roth on two DVDs again. Those are some of the DVDs that you can get a 25% off all this week through ministry go to the line of fire.org okay let me we change gears for a moment and just share something that got my attention of it. Thinking about for a while and I will give you this word of encouragement as we talk gospel politics so maybe you remember this but four years ago when Rick Perry announced that he was going to run for president.

So it's what five years back. Now and immediately shot to number one use of popular governor in Texas and in a very likable charismatic type of guy and committed Christian. On top of that, and he he was in one of the debates out that that didn't seem to be his strongest point.

Some people are much better public speakers than debaters and some are much better debaters than public speakers and some are much better writers than speaker in a just different skills and some are sharper than others. So was in his strongest suit, but Thomas is working on these is a sharp guy I could pick and run the state. Big state like Texas so it was November 2011 and he was talking about. If if if he were president. There are three agencies that that he would eliminate a commerce, education, and the third one and he said three agencies of government. When I get there that are gone, commerce, education, and the what's the third one there. Let's see 05 covers education on the arm and that Mitt Romney set out. Maybe you mean the EPA Environmental Protection Agency in person EPA there you go. This is not know that.

Actually, that's that needs to be rebuilt, not eliminate the moderator on CNBC John Harwood aspect of skin in the third one and retraces the third agency of government I would do away with the education the. The commerce and let's see I can't serve.

I can't sorry whoops and doubtless, the end he never recovered from that in terms of regaining the momentum and end being taken that seriously as a potential candidate for all of his good qualities and with all the attacks on President Bush. Obviously wrongful attacks present George W. Bush's intelligencer this is that now they come in after Rick Perry the same way again unfairly, but that's what happened. Now, someone told me, and I have 50 clue if there's a truth that he had that Coleman was taken some medicine was quite sharp and Emmett, who knows, it can happen to anybody. Come back from overseas little jetlagged this and I will talk about something the other day and I said was the person she got the name is the I forgot the name that's, blanked out the symbols that lay thinks it happened but in any case now Donald Trump has nominated him to head the Department of Energy that the department that he could remember. They said be eliminated if he was, and obviously serving of the Mr. Trump of prison electronic he would serve in the department be there and he do his best to make it the best he could be. And I thought, isn't that a picture of redemption. The you know what I'm saying isn't that a picture of God's gracious redemption that that here in in a very public dramatic way in a national presidential debate is a leading candidate. He has his whoops moment and he can't remove the Department of Energy and that's what he's been nominated to lead this is not something isn't that just like the Lord, the way he works in our lives that now it here. Think of this governor, Mike pence now Vice President-elect Pentz couple years back.

He really caved under tremendous pressure from gay activists and their allies big business when he passed it a good strong sign into law a good strong religious freedoms for restoration act that mirrored the federal act that overwhelmingly passed under President Clinton under Pres. Bill Clinton and now there was a stateside want to further reinforce that and she governor. Pence came under tremendous pressure and within a week back tracked on that and ended up ended up sink it will fix this and then signed legislation that was actually the view of most of us who thought it worse than the way things were before, and I remember those of us watching this because governor enhances a fine respect governor and a fine Christian men's well we consult while that's that's a deathknell on his political future because he had been. He had been hail. This potentially could lead the presidential candidate of something it and here's looked at us. Wow. You know he's disqualified himself with that will obviously continue to lead well since that time, and I think learn from it. But the point is he he gets. He gets chosen to be vice presidential candidate is a heartbeat away from the presidency is reset so I want to encourage you even if you look at Donald and Monica Trump.

Perhaps the most unlikely president and first lady in our nation's history that the God delights in using unlikely vessels and in God delights in going to the place of our fifth season, the place or failure.

The place of or mistakes the face of our sin place in our weakness and showing his mercy and power. There so I want to encourage you personally.

Many of you have of really messed up in your lives. All of us have one level or another, some more severely than others and some of your thinking is the spirit of irreparable.

It can never go back to it was actually God might have a plan to make things better than the work you might've committed adultery destroyed your marriage. You think it will never be what it was before it could be better than it was before God's Redeemer because Redeemer is all message of the cross. Greatest sin ever committed by the human race was the crucifixion of the son of God. And yet, that is God's means of saving the world so be encouraged. God's Redeemer. If you don't know the Lord.

If you've if you've never put your trust in him and asked him to forgive your sins and become his child. She can live the rest your life for him and that's why Jesus died to take your place to pay for your sins cry out to him today confess be honest to God been a wretch been perfectly good. Forgive me. I believe Jesus died for my sins and rose from the dead life today friends this very day you pray for you cry let us know political website of the line of fire. The board full of your believers put trust in God Redeemer he can turn things around. It's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 6643 here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks much for joining us on the 148-6634 truth.

Let's go right to the phones feel like we won't go there. Let's go to Stephen in Northern Virginia. Welcome to the line of fire. I manager Duranty and I think it very apt for me declared I got. I grew up in the DC area. Local welcoming and there is really really interested in pursuing politics in her neck Internet the Lord and you know still still interested and somewhere in college I and I and I did a couple internships with people around Capitol Hill. People on Capitol Hill and I came to a conclusion that for me equally. I started to see where people work we are seeing the end as a person who favored an issue of overheated doing my specific instance I would say for me right now that yesterday it better for me to stay out now that's not something that I would hold it the standard. I think that God may have placed people in certain collective ability, and it might be there duty because of their unique privilege ordering the master the Stephen first.

I think it's a mature attitude to say hey this may not be for everybody but this was my own experience and I have to have to be faithful to God in the midst of that so often we project our experience on everybody else or our conviction on everybody else, but when you in the midst of interning in DC did you see the possibility of a godly believers serving their without having to compromise their personal convictions. There are ethics scriptural standards. In other words, there are certain things that you could not participate in. You could not actively participate. Say in in dogfighting without compromising your Christian convictions. You couldn't actively participate in in that working at a strip club without compromise your convictions are things in your opinion so dirty, so compromise of crop within DC that is virtually impossible to to walk and that without compromising convictions would you see it's possible, but does not for you. Your column so I can get a lot dirtier after I got done and your dinner. At the time, I would say that there is a lot to be said for fundraising for and and as result I think that people that are well-connected that certain people that have the necessary funds may be in a better position. It goes against our our American narrative. You can do it you want and not that I do think that God made place people and their position of influence and and and and money so that they can use in the political realm because that's when they're not as likely to be tied by needing to provide x-ray. I gave you a favor and am expecting here God. It is not interesting. So a lot of it is the is the money and I'll scratch your back if you scratch my back kind of thing yet look limply to see the student there many many areas of life where if you play by God's rules.

You're told you can't play in the game any more than ministry only people of Everest meter sin utilities get drunk or steal money or something. But sometimes I've been told, because then the little here. Otherwise the doors will open and I said hey I I can't I'm sorry I can't fence here and get God's open even bigger doors and that's a test of our faith. We say hey if the Lord's going back this backs, can compromise that's a key thing he Stephen rather time to thank you sir for the call. It's insightful. I appreciate the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks so much for joining us on the line of fire.

866-34-TRUTH 784 one of the things that I have said for years now is that the activism will overplay his hand that the bullying will backfire with the extreme nature of the agenda will backfire as most Americans will be tolerant fair. We don't be guilty of discrimination against any group of people to the extent Americans believe that gay is the new black or transgender is the new black or they have a family member or friend that identifies as LGBT.

They want to be accepting and positive. It never stops there. Things keep going further and further because, of which there are backlashes and I believe that on a societal level will continue see these backlashes of something very important is taking place another major case that we need to discuss and I'm joined now by Eric Stanley. Eric is a senior counsel, director of the Center for Christian ministries with the alliance defending freedom with whom we work closely Eric welcome against the broadcast. Thanks for joining us all think :-( on it great to be with you.

So Eric, what's, what's this latest case that should have the attention of the whole nation really yeah absolutely what we had filed a lawsuit on behalf of four churches in Massachusetts because last year the Massachusetts legislature changed its nondiscrimination law to add gender identity as a protected class Intuit law and it passed the Atty. Gen. and the Massachusetts commission against discrimination with coming up with guidance to interpret and enforce that law in both the Atty. Gen. and the commission. I came out with the guidance that said that churches were considered places of public accommodation and therefore they could not discriminate in their facility uses on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity. And so we file a lawsuit to protect the right of pastors and churches to freely operate consistent with their faith and were happy to report that the shortly after we file the lawsuit, the state back down. I clarified that it could not intrude upon the First Amendment right of churches and lawsuits been resolved.

Right.

So before we we celebrate the victory here it's first understand exactly what happened with a saying Sunday morning church service that the church had to change its standards or values or let's just say the church was having a dinner of some kind are hosting some community events that in those situations it would have to go by the state standards. While there was some confusion on that point even on even between the Atty. Gen. and the Massachusetts commission against discrimination. The commission said that this is a quote from their guidance.

They said even a church could be seen as a place of public accommodation and oldest secular event such as a spaghetti supper that is open to the public, but the Atty. Gen. simply put on to her website that churches in general were subject to the new gender identity law and so there certainly was some disagreement and confusion, but I think at the base what was going on is the state of Massachusetts was attempting to come into the church facilities and regulate how the church could use its building and and really say that you could not discriminate in the use of your building facilities in your restrooms and your changing areas are private areas or locker rooms on the basis of gender identity and and so that's really what they were after our incident specifically with this would mean is if a clearly biological male walked into the church building, be it for some community event that was being hosted a bid for Sunday morning service and the man is wearing a dress but is clearly biological male and he then goes to walk into the. The ladies restroom during the service with other women and girls in there and inertia. Since I'm sorry this is for women only.

That, according to this proposed law that would have been discrimination while that's right. And it goes even further than that because under the rules are under the law was passed by the Massachusetts legislature gender identity is defined as one's perception of one's own gender. And so it doesn't even have to be someone who dresses like the opposite gender or act like the opposite gender.

It could be a biological man who acts in dresses and looks like a biological man but just perceives himself to be a woman on a particular day could could use the restroom or are changing area and then it was even worse about the law is that it would if the church were found to be discriminating. It could be fined thousands of dollars and it carries a penalty of up to a year in jail for every instance of discrimination. So this was clearly a very over-the-top attempt that had a lot of teeth to it to subject churches to this, the new law that you can put a church in jail or building in jail can still kinase until he would've gone to jail. Well, it probably would've been very governing authorities of the church either. The pastor of the elder board or deacon board.

Whoever was in charge of the church.

That certainly was one of the options that the state had was to enforce this through criminal sanctions.

And if you had some heterosexual predator you know there tragically way too many sick people out there and this person is looking for a way to get at season male heterosexual predator is looking for a way to just it is of where he's looking for.

Waited to look at at the women in some state of undress, or just be near them in that state or maybe look at little girls in vulnerable situations and this person came to the building. Same deal. This is a woman, identifies woman there addressing no way that that the church could stop that person while under the law. I think that's exactly right. Because the church would if they stopped a person like that would be subject to a potential discrimination claim that again can include fines or criminal penalties. And I think with what the unit� Certainly bad enough in and that's a very, very valid, and large concern about these laws is that they they do open up these areas to potential predators, but even a bigger kind of a constitutional issue with this is just the complete and utter disregard that the state of Massachusetts showed for the fact that church facilities are not just like any other business that everything that a church dive in and through its facility is a part of its religious beliefs. It speaks to the community about what the church believes and how they want to be perceived in the community. And so for the government to come in to force the church to use its facilities in ways that violate its faith is a blatant intrusion on the constitutional rights of the church that is there is there or has there been any ambiguity over the decades with the government's overreaching. In other words, this is something that our courts have wrestled with for decades and our founders were unclear about or is is this one of these egregious overreaches that that everyone has to shout say what what are you doing this is definitely one of those egregious oversight for you know this is the protections for free exercise of religion and the establishment clause in the First Amendment were put there to be very clear that there is a sphere of authority and of autonomy that the government cannot intrude upon and that's the realm of the church that in the internal workings of the church. In the spring court been clear about this. Going back to the early 1800s and case after case after case that there is when it comes to the internal affairs of the church how church structures itself how it does it. The business how it how it exercises its religion how it uses the different things that that uses for those religious purposes buildings and offices and things of that nature that the government simply cannot intrude upon that and if they do, it violates the free exercise clause and the establishment clause. This is very clear.

It's been very clear for I just literally dozens and dozens of years there dozens of cases and what Massachusetts did here was an egregious over overstep and I think our lawsuit actually caused them to understand that because they started to run very quickly after we file the lawsuit and in fact actually sent us a letter, the Atty. Gen. did shortly after the lawsuit was filed. That said, unqualified references to houses of worship was inconsistent with the First Amendment right of churches and your lawsuit caused us to focus on these issues and to make a revision to their website to remove churches as places of public accommodation. The scary thing is, though, if churches had not said stop and other conservative organizations stand for religious liberty had not said stop and then the ADF got actively involved this this could actually happen, and it would it would really be no different. It infected before worse that but no difference theoretically than a church that said we don't ordain women to be pastors in the states is unless you do, you can be fined and spend a year in jail and he knew it would be that much of an overage aircraft of got one more question. You just stay on the other side of the break and it has to do with. If you are seeing any type of change in the courts in the cases you're dealing with any type of change in sentiments as LGBT activists continue to be guilty of of overreach and pushing in a way that that for refusing any kind of backlash in the courts of positive results cases still speak with Eric Stanley, the alliance offending.

The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice aboard cultural and spiritual revolution there again is Dr. Michael Brown speaking with Eric Stanley with the alliance defending freedom.

They have been on the front lines of standard of righteousness standing from reality and culture standing for religious freedoms for several decades now, but under ever-increasing pressure as the society has lost her American society has lost many of its important bearings that Eric. There's been tremendous momentum on the side of of gay activism for some years now, obviously something positive is is that the churches had to reevaluate its outreach to the gay lesbian community and asked her we are retreating everyone with compassion and seeking to to invite everyone to hear the gospel receive are we demonizing people and know there is a positive things happen but overwhelmingly is in a negative trend in the society accommodating last year in the in the Supreme Court redefining marriage in the Obama patient out that America was he was having the military and an honor and sometimes it can be discouraging to be standing for for what's right you are involved in the Supreme Court case and and to see losses there. Are you seeing any any any changes have gay activists overplayed their hand, say with with bullying is there more sympathy in America for people who've lost their businesses and and for others that are being singled out for the views, or perhaps the push of transgender activism in the Obama administration telling schools are going to be punished and withdrew our 15-year-old boy to share a locker room and shower stall with a 15-year-old girl are you seeing this any positive pushback while I think we are.

You mentioned a couple of instances were not the case.

I think were seeing some positive pushback in the Obama administration's attempt to redefine the word tax to include gender identity and to force public schools to open their restrooms and locker rooms to members of the opposite sex. I think that's an issue where did they overplayed their hand where it affects the privacy and safety of women and young girls and I think were seeing a backlash as a result of that in fact were involved in it. A number of lawsuits on that issue where families have been filing lawsuits against the Obama administration to protect the privacy and safety of their other young women in the sensitive areas that were also starting to hopefully see some sympathy given to business owners who just want to exercise their faith and just want to do that in the context of their business to not have to be forced to participate in creative expression and in ceremonies that violate their faith. I think that it remains to be seen how all of this is still gonna play out in the culture and in the courts and I think specifically in the courts. These battles will continue to be fought for the next decade or so until we come to some understanding of what this is gonna look like, but I think that our case in Massachusetts stands for at least the proposition that when we stand together and and when we pushback and we show up we can win and we do when and I think in these cases where the government or activist of overplayed their hand as they did in Massachusetts. Then one when we do stand and we file these lawsuits. We can and do win it and we've been blessed by God's grace to see a great level of success in the kind of cases that were bringing an end in the understanding and enough courts. That freedom is still worth protecting. Having seen a string of great victories over the years on college campuses having to do with restriction of freedom of speech. Absolutely, you know that college campuses are tried for years to get away with speech zones and codes and discrimination codes and and those kind of things and and every time that we set up one of these codes in a lawsuit. It's been knocked down as unconstitutional.

I we see a great string of success. There so I think that's fought that that's fertile ground there. I think the business owners the creative professionals that going to be fertile ground for protection for victory in the future as we protect the rights of conscience of people of faith that live and act according to their beliefs and I think in the church and in religious organizations there still a willingness to understand and accept that the First Amendment does protect the right of churches to live and to act freely in accordance with their faith.

So what do you think, and will be done here just a couple minutes thanks much for your time today that if Christian pastors and leaders on a regular basis on an annual basis. Educated their people on these issues and Christian parents got involved in schools getting something that's simple could get help spark a national moral and cultural revolution. Well, I certainly hope and pray that that's the case I do know that we are living in a day where we simply living as Christians in our in our churches and our businesses in our communities proclaiming the gospel living out in our daily lives.

Simply doing those acts as Christians comes into conflict with the culture and the prevailing norms of the day and so whether people get involved or not, may not even be an option. It may be that they have to get involved in order to preserve our freedoms, but I think that that we have to learn the lessons that ADF has been able to learn by God's grace over the years that we've been filing these cases is that when we stand together and we pushback we can and we do win by God's grace we are blessed to have over an 85% success rate in the cases we file, which is pretty amazing considering the exciting real issues that we deal with a but that just goes to show how much can be accomplished when people do become informed become engaged in and stand for truth absolutely and that that's a staggering statistic I I often spoke with Sonia college, Joan Frankel, longtime friend for decades back, and he talked to me about the successes on campuses and in different cases and some of the challenges but 85% success rate when you're you're really in the thick of some of the most difficult cultural issues and were constantly being told. The culture wars are over.

Just capitulate and roll over into me. We know that sounds like it's like trash talk between two boxes before fight you knowingly want to get the ring recommended by Dr. I just smile at the bravado and and go and do your job. So thank you sir for what you doing and for this great victory. Massachusetts may be a lesson for the whole nation. Amen thank you so much for having me on it great to be with you today. All right, so blessed that was Eric Stanley from the alliance defending freedom. Good news words of encouragement right France. Isn't that an example of the gospel in politics interfacing is is not an example of Christian attorneys in Christian legal Society, standing up for Christian rights in the courts and the courts and/or the attorney general, making the right decision because they been confronted with truth and you say will they were preaching the gospel or just talk my constitutionalist just Christians where it intersects intersects so let's have a healthy outlook and that above all our our battle is spiritual growth with outsourced spiritual that's what it comes down to the godly lives using the weapon of the gospel month weapon of anger, violence, hatred, intimidation with the weapon of the good news of the gospel in the weapon of prayer you guys have secret weapons all yeah and their spiritual and their amazingly effective if we will take advantage of that.

Remember friends all of our DVDs. My many debates on many different subjects extensive teaching series 22 hour serious account Missionaries all available 25% discount this week at the line of fire Fellowship check out my latest articles and videos posted a whole bunch. My bottom line the gospel politics, that intersect is in this world. Read the same air is a time for a holy pushback in society how much can we bring about change to the gospel today. It's time for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown, we've been hearing this for years. Culture wars are over time to throw in the towel.

You guys of lost accepted. Get over it and lick your wounds go on down to other issues. Heard it for years I've lived for split second of the for split second because number one God is King Jesus is Lord. That's the ultimate authority to which we bow and God can turn things on a dime if he so chooses, or if we cooperate with him. This in turn on a dime and history takes a long time in history makes lots of unexpected stops and starts and turns along the way and you never know what's going to happen even from year to year. Within a society. Plus, I believe deeply in my own heart. God's promise that that will have a gospel base moral and cultural revolution so I am not one of those thrown in the towel are deeply discouraged. In fact, hope rings true in the all the time. All we now see some things happening in the society that would point the direction of some positive changes. This is Michael Brown you're listening to the line of fire. We service your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution. Why because we are convinced that it is God's plan in America for there to be a gospel base moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution health fourth things will go. I don't know how much pushback there will be I don't know that I think you missed for years that there will be a holy pushback in positive ways that will be for the ultimate good of America were not talk about a Christian takeover.

We force everyone to keep our faith under punishments of the loss. If you don't go to church on Sunday. Read the Bible you go to jail. No no no no no, but we were able to stand for righteousness were able to stand against unrighteousness.

We were able to to to follow ways of life and not death and freedom and not bondage so last half hour I had on with me Eric Stanley attorney with the alliance defending freedom. Talk about an important case in Massachusetts where the state completely overstepped its bounds and told churches that they had to follow radical transgender activist goals. The was, they could be fined severely and in governing authorities in the church to spend up to a year in jail say for what will it if man came in for service Obama woman identifies a woman and he will use the ladies restroom or other women were girls were the church said no sir. I'm sorry this is for women only think to be guilty of discrimination and leaders governors artisan church this year in jail and fined once defending freedom, pushback, and so that is a complete, that is a complete and total complete and total violation of the First Amendment is a complete overreach by the stage and the government into private religious affairs that would be like saying well if if you believe the Bible is infallible. If you believe that and don't admit that the Bible is filled with errors.

You go to jail for your mental is the government the right to say something like that obvious obvious thing you can practice your faith you guilty of discrimination will immediately when the case was filed on behalf of four churches, but illustrating freedom, the Atty. Gen. said there should put churches in a clause.

There of course, unlike the whole direction. The state was going anyway but all that to say there is an immediate pushback there positive result is this part of a larger trend and this election of Donald Trump contribute to that as well. 866-34-TRUTH will take that out later in this hour special interview with Pastor Robert Jeffress the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution there again is Dr. Michael Brown.

I just kinda quietly took the step by just not.

I believe I'm just gonna follow him. So, so that was my conversion was very quiet wasn't very dramatic. There was no change in my sexuality. Having made that decision.

I think it was just to change in my allegiance when I thought I'm going to follow Jesus, God's answer was to say to me I love you and anything you don't have to be gay and I thought leading him from me as I certainly agree with � family and then and I just stopped in my tracks is okay, what is that mean while this powerful stuff. This is from the DVD.

Such were some of you testimonies of men and women, of homosexuality, some with tremendous stories of decades of freedom and transformation teaching with the Bible says about this and some of the key cultural questions issues on the voice on their in terms of the Bible and cultural issues. This command of homosexuality testimonies Prof. Robert Gagnon on foremost authority on the Bible and homosexual practice. He's on their put together by David Foster, who himself has an amazing testimony. It's one of many DVDs available from our ministry this week all at 25% off as we sought to be a blessing to you who've been such a blessing to us through the years. So go to the line of fire.org to find out more. The line of fire.org and orders. Many as you want multiple copies of the same to give away to others, all different ones we got a wide wide assortment that will edify you and bless you to give entities resources. The line of fire.org.

Okay, back to the question of pushback. This was yesterday.

Tammy Bruce whose openly gay and staunchly conservative radio host. She speaking with Fox news is Tucker Carlson explaining why she believes Trump selection may have signaled an end of politics as usual represented a shift for Americans will no longer tolerate liberal bullying over beliefs in Christian faith. JJ let's start with clip number 19 Tammy Bruce speaking with Tucker Carlson for the left in the last eight years we've we've learned that their fascists right and I think that what were saying. Now after aunt amp decade of cultural success. I think the left is now looking for new tact and of course we've always seen it.

Christians are the target and in general as we seen with breakers that will bake cakes for weddings, etc. but now since gay marriage is the law of the land and Americans generally are open to more of a fluid dynamic, culturally, the left needs to find some other thing to argue and in this case I think it's a portentous something very difficult and that they now want Christians to preemptively prove that they pay allegiance to conforming and to secular society. It's a new attack on Christians to let them know that effectively, you are guilty until proven innocent articulate and clear and again part of part of what I've said for years that the bullying will backfire.

And Americans are people who love freedom and a movement that began as a liberation freedom movement gay liberation has become in many ways a movement devoted to taking away the freedoms of others.

The freedoms of others conflict with the goals of gay activism, so let's listen to more of this discussion, Tammy Bruce and Tucker Carlson clip 20 election itself was a at-bat message about our rejecting political correctness and the culture of intimidation at this couple had support from across the board at their premier in the midst of this snare has a record-breaking premiere and I think Americans are saying luck, no matter who we are and enough is enough with the culture of intimidation.

I napped with attacking at individuals because of their faith, especially coming from the gay community is a gay woman. I find it outrageous that were attacking people simply because of who they are.

So the thing that so fascinating is that she saying this is a lesbian right and the argument would be that that she is a lesbian was being attacked for who she was nauseous and that's not the case. People are living freely in America making decisions that want to make to manage women can "marry each other. Judgment I put Marion quotes for term of two men marry each other to manage other end of she saying it's is not turned that if you simply have Christian values? Value being attacked for the an interview be interrogated for an and as we see with the ridiculous Buzz fee cosmopolitan attack on shipping dry gains of HDTV fixer upper frame which seems to draw more of a backlash against the attackers that against those being attacked rightly so, that that the gains are basically being attacked because they go to church that preaches the gospel blues with the Bible says about sexual purity and in marriage. How dare they go there so I'm in an inquisition used on a literal inquisition which are cheaper when they believe will you can do that if you will be on TV when you can't go there if you have a job here and it's it's outrageous and is pushback because the gay activists are going to far out one more clip again. Tammy Bruce with Tucker Carlson on Fox. Go ahead. There was ever an argument that they were somehow supposed to approve an answer in an inquisition's questions about who they are and what they stand for. The fact is I only care about the choice she makes for the backsplash with the house that she's she's just updating. I don't care what they think and as a gay person as an American I want. It's about individual liberty, individual freedom and that's what this election was about and I hope that Americans are standing up against bullies and in this case that means we have to stand up against the American left and again she was talking about join gains in the desists makes an fixity of designing a house there's an article by Pat Buchanan, longtime conservative leader and it was published December 9 on C and S new step, true or else it was released at end headline is has the trumpet in revolution begun the silver hang on hang on for sick Mike you mixing apples with oranges here because the. The impetus of getting Donald Trump elected populism and nationalism. Americans not like the way the country was going. You don't win anymore. A great Trump line in the campaign and people not like where the economy is not feeling good about security and borders and things like that it and then just the. The pushback against the elitism of Washington. The elitism of the media and and the common person feeling that that their rights are being scorned is this essay that was the pushback that got Trump elected input in putting his finger on the anger and fear in the hearts of many Americans, which was in the mix. Because human beings of that's got him elected had nothing to do with issues like same-sex marriage or stuff like that fancies use. Nothing clearer strong on that is okay. I fully understand and Pat Buchanan understands that the plaintiff's, the point is, it is a push government and some of that included things like transgender bathtub Donald Trump did not make an issue of this. In fact, he said that that Bruce Jenner would be welcome to use the ladies room and Trump tower. He wanted to. However, the man on the street that voted for Trump probably is not keen on on a 16-year-old boy playing on his daughter's sports team and sharing the locker room and bathroom and shower stalls with his 16-year-old daughter probably not even the New York Times said we jutted to the liberals and Democrats remained on the wrong things should be taught about the economy and and and meeting the needs of the average American, as opposed to pushing transgender bathrooms. For example, so Pat Buchanan raises the question or are we pieces indeed with with trust presidency, we may be entering a post-liberal era, which could be there is a larger pushback taking place in society. Could it be that there is a larger pushback in terms of Americans to say we don't like the direction of this we don't like all this radical left of been put on us and it never stops. It's never enough distally say okay were happy with this great it was to be accepting and tolerant with accepting intelligent no no that's bigoted. What you have to be what when you have to tolerate we have to accept that you she should affirm okay okay will we are from no incentive to celebrate. What if we have personal differences you can't know how to sew so Pat Buchanan says this and it's it's a fascinating line as Hegel taught in the dialectic of history. The thesis calls into existence the antithesis we seem to be seen as a rejection and a counterreformation against the views and values that came out of the social and political revolutions of the 1960s friends. That's what I've been saying is coming for years now. Pushback against the radical values of the 60s that so impacted America today is it happening seeing it in the election of the scene so himself for plan and it's the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown and neither all my photos this sentence proves that you judges completely out of touch.

That is the voice of your builders political leader in the Netherlands, a controversial political leader potential Prime Minister future of the Netherlands, convicted by the courts of of hate speech, hate crime and according to reports that I've read here looking@theindependent.co.uk British publication Dutch anti-Islam politician. Builders rises and polls after a crime conviction rises in polls after a crime conviction on otitis. It would've been talked about in America. In a moment of the let's listen to one more clip. This is his reaction to the courts to the judges of the conviction clip 18, the Netherlands have become sick country. I have a message for the judges who convicted me you have restricted the freedom of speech of millions of Dutch and hands convicted everyone. No one trusts you and them all, but fortunately truth and limit the stronger than you, and so on. My I will never be silent. You will not be able to stop me not want to consider this.

Good builders was recently banned from entering the UK because of his alleged Islam phobia. He put out a powerful video some years ago showing acts of Islamic terror side-by-side with violent verses from the Quran and he said that is the religion of the Quran.

Of course, radical Muslims would've said correct and other Muslims were said that that is not our faith and we reject that interpretation of a holy book, but certainly had the right to do that and he's concerned about the direction of the Netherlands.

Your type of small European countries, countries with hundreds of millions of people. If you have an influx of hundreds of thousands or millions of immigrants who want to hold to their culture not assimilated into your cultures were very aggressive with their culture. This can produce conflict and when quite a few major cities in Europe. Even some countries, the number one voice name is Mohammed.

This is been the case for some time and cities in the Netherlands or Sweden.

There were countries like England went when you look at the different ways Mohammed spelled and put them all together as is one not. It's not the end of the world, but it's telling you there is there is a growing Islamic culture within these countries and in many cases it stands against the values of those countries in the way of life of those countries and in more and more the countries they're not Muslim haters I'm sure have some Muslim leaders among them. They had no problem with Muslims living among them for years. But when the muscles became even more radicalized or less assimilated with the numbers increased on people gets it. Wait wait wait is aware of what and when I do supporting you with our system and is not right is not right hungry actually said no. We made that mistake before hungry actually came under Islamic rule four for what century and 1/2. I forget the exact number before fighting back and regaining freedom.

This is hundreds of years ago when the refugee kite crisis began in muscle events began pouring of the Middle East, Africa, Congress of note when not taking in it. We've taken you in your work is not on the diamond almost as if you're muscle listening is not an indictment of all Muslims. Those that were coming in. Did not want be part of society did not want to get productive jobs in the midst of that one assembly. This is what that Hungary government saying this, shutting the door basically put up the fence and you're not coming. It's part of a larger pushback. No, please hear. There are many many different things going on and in some cases there may be xenophobia and NAS a radical nationalism that that fears the outsiders and there may be various hatreds being appealed to be in a white supremacist attitude or a particular cultural supremacy. Whatever. But by and large that's not the case is not the case in America we have not had a problem with Muslims living among us for for many many decades from centuries the stuff in the problem. The problem