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Interviews with Ex-Gay Janet Boynes and Christian Apologist Greg Koukl

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown
The Truth Network Radio
January 11, 2017 4:40 pm

Interviews with Ex-Gay Janet Boynes and Christian Apologist Greg Koukl

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown

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January 11, 2017 4:40 pm

The Line of Fire Radio Broadcast for 01/11/17.

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About to speak to a former lesbian some honest questions about God and sexuality stage for the line of fire, your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire valves like always 866-34-TRUTH that's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown will tell you the news now press conference with Pres. elect Tromp and to let let me take you right into that. We got a special guess it's going to be joining us in a little while but let me take you right into this press conference.

The voice you hear is the voice of the CNN correspondent trying to get a question and at the press conference ticket was attacking our news organization is present like the present. Like can you give us a question? Your CNN you are fake news from the president elect talk about things getting to the point of hysteria.

Things that talk about motives of the heart attitudes being exposed.

Apparently a completely bogus report about comparable information on Donald Trump from Russian intelligence put out by Buzz feed and then by CNN, the New York Times, with all their hostility to Tromp wooden even printed and then intelligence leaks have the even get out. According to Donald Trump is not worth the paper it's printed on his total garbage rushes joined in insane complete nonsense. Donald Trump is that the CNN would not give the reporter question fate. You are fake news will talk about things being exposed talk about talk about things being put on the table talk about the media's hostility liberal media's hostility towards Donald Trump and what he represents.

Talk about Donald Trump style of fun. I cannot deal with you. Your fake wow friends. Here's where we stand today. I wanted six of the redemptive in the midst of this, this is a time to bring the truth to light. This is the time to shout the truth from the rooftops.

Whoever has the truth but to be heard but be known where has the trees.

Let it be shouted from the rooftops. Let us not hold back a written article last night.

You're listening to Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution written article last night after flying back from California I was stirred I was burdened in my article was on Donald Trump to Johnson amendment and the question of Christian cowardice, let's say Donald Trump is successfully repealing the Johnson amendment, which prohibits tax-exempt organizations, religious organizations from endorsing a political candidate. Let's say that's repealed. Will pastors be any more bold to speak on moral, cultural, political issues, I don't think so because I think that's what's held its back. It is other things that have held us back. I encourage you to go to stream.org and read that article and share it with others. You will find it to be a real eye-opener with your Christian leader read it and if you're with me a shot of the truth from the rooftops. Amen.

If you're struggling here. May this article light or fresh fire in you and even though we are not saying he were to follow in the footsteps of Donald Trump and do things his way and his style of communicating.

I am saying you see him stand up to what he feels is wrong then then that should encourage you to stand up but in the spirit of God, that would be a big difference.

All right, friends, we come back watch and be ready with your calls for Janet Goins, a woman with an incredible testimony of coming out of sexual brokenness herself. Maybe.

Maybe you have a question about your own life issues in your own life or someone you know someone close to you can call anonymously with your questions. 866343 866-34-TRUTH 788. The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown, Arthur Thompson, so much talk about Trump press conference with other things going on media today with confirmation hearings even if it's sad to see the attacks that came against Sen. Jeff sessions just all the old racial accusations and things like that with without basis. Does this whole thing of identity politics and dividing people over these issues reckoning into that that I commented on so many of these issues.

If you go to our website Alana fire.org and just look for latest articles and videos. You see us commenting on all of these relevant issues from many many different angles today I want to focus on God and sexuality truth and relevance without compromise. It is a brand-new book. I felt so strongly about it. I wrote the forward to this book God and sexuality choosing relevance without compromise bite. Janet points woman who has her own powerful testimony not just of coming out of sexual brokenness, but of coming into a place of tremendous wholeness, spiritually and in her entire life and I remember reading the book thinking which get this wisdom when you hear about her upbringing.

When I looked at this at the point where she gets so much practical wisdom I realized it's a relationship with the Lord must be godly mentors that she had. If you have a question you're dealing with sexual brokenness in your own life or sexual addictions in your own life or and feel free to call in anonymously or if you're dealing with the question with with the child and and how you deal with these issues and got a letter from a Pastor Ramona read it to Janet little while working to discuss how we would answer this. This is a great dinner call 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 7884 Janet welcome back to life are always good to have you with us always a button.

Dr. Michael Brown. Thank you again for having me all my timeout. It talk about this issue that is so prevalent across our country, yet it absolutely is and it's the kind of thing that we cannot avoid. If we love people, because people are dealing with these things Janet first your books been out. Not even a month now. What are you hearing from readers a lot but there are so private that we dedicated a book family answering the top question answering the question that nobody wants to talk about on their platform were dealing with the elephant in the wrong that no longer can be the elephant room so working great working excellent and Janet, why do you think it is that so few people even Christian leaders who know these problems exist in their midst of interrogation may be in their own lives and families.

Why are so many Christian leaders reluctant to tackle difficult sexual subjects.

There can be many reasons why can't speak or all the pastors but I believe I can speak for Tom one they don't know how to deal with the issue and not that knowledgeable Bible says when you or I heard Creflo Dollar state on time. When you know better you do better but we know how powerful knowledge, but that's why we were about to write is so that they can become knowledgeable so they can get the information that they need so they can work with their their congregations in the church. The other thing I believe it clear I believe you're afraid of the gay community.

I believe there afraid of the backlash coming look like it happened to Kim Burrell. I mean you when I get backlash from those in the gay community that don't support our views just because were standing up like it is almost like it's one side verify their word and their word is the only way that they can go but we had a bully and we have to continue to speak it out but happily fear that they could factor of why the churches are speaking out today. Another thing I believe there afraid that somebody entered the big deal in our church. People are always getting offended. They don't realize that they're just trying to give them information that can impact our lives and help them in the delivery is important to their freighter offend somebody that can their church that homosexual verify that in the family metal work they're going to leave the church and take their money with trouble reasons not to preach the from Genesis to Revelation, but the fact I yeah I agree with every word you say that I appreciate you being his charitable sheet she can be in your response.

Janet should we put the question or questions surrounding homosexuality. In a separate category from other issues of sexual brokenness or is this just one problem of over one part of a larger problem.

Well you know what's frustrating for me in the person cannot lie, try it really bothers me when we separate you can have an apple tree and you can have everything listed in the Bible and far beyond that everything can be forgiven except homosexual is no different than any other sin, and a family member out there is dealing with a child or spouse that is struggling with homosexuality and still your child and clean, get a divorce that is still your spouse doesn't mean you have to put up with.

You don't have to allow that into your own, but we still have to love those who are struggling in this area that is still important, but weekly.

At a point ministry is compassion without compromise must always show love and respect and compassion to everyone through compassion but will not turn a blind eye to self-destruction, behavior, or confront or confront the compassionate postings that the truth in love offers will help those struggling with same-sex attraction.

That's what you try to do even though you never let this like we try to do with people who might come out and really want to help them to contact and when you speak about your ministry. Are you continually hearing from people struggling in these ways with the family members. Is this something that is much more prevalent than we might realize much more prevalent than I think the listener can imagine. Even though you have a loved one that struggled homosexuality. I don't think they know across the board.

Those of us who had ministries like my, those that are struggling around the country. Not callous, just on and will make it happen. Our show with me after I spoke at his conference last year and it just aired on his website for one of emails that are coming in right now. They can become overwhelming. We are getting email that my daughter just told me you know there 11 homosexual I or my final we're hearing about on the record basis because this is what you know we cackle it very prevalent and many family members. All of the country. This is what I personally believe. I believe the enemy is using their separate families and churches and political parties all over the country.

This is what Stephen wants to do. He wants people to believe that this is okay in the act of God, but nowhere scripturally that says this is okay, yeah, absolutely.

And again, compassion without compromise that that is the Jesus way for sure, Janet.

We've got about two half minutes before first Rayford for those who don't know your background and upbringing just just paint the picture of how your raised an end. What happened in your life to to get you on the wrong path and elders will quicken many people say why didn't have to struggle that Janet, but I was raised in a family of seven kids or father watch my mother get abused by drunken dad who raised me.

She abused us and I became the abuser. Even though my mother has been at the time I was molested by him after follow my sister to his home, week after week he started collecting later in life. Found out my young such as was molested by an altar boy at my church. You see the man continuously rape you abuse one a year. Family members like women didn't want to be in a relationship later in life I flew to Minneapolis, Minnesota and met this wonderful guy thought I was going get married, and in turn I wind up meeting this woman walked away floor 14, and in 1998 I walked away in 1985, three monthly crossbows walked down the aisle 1998 the Lord brought me back and I started serving him and I never look back. It's been 18 years in Janet when when I asked the question facet outline on the air now where did you get the practical godly wisdom.

Could you book is filled with such as the Bible says this and that it's it's practical application of the wisdom of Scripture being raised the way you were an and not married. Now I looked. It is as if you had been raising amazing home and were an amazing marriage relationship with grown kids. Where did you get the practical wisdom from I think a lot of time to think that we go through teaching and people that we come under God has really blessed me with wonderful people who come alongside of me the family that I lived with for a year, you know, started laying the groundwork, but really, in the end Michael was up to me I had to make a decision if I was concerned, God will cut teaching. I was going to be I want to be a part of ministry that want to tickle my ear.

People something to me out of love was I gonna take offense to it or I will take it. I my life, but also I have family who are struggling with homosexuality in their lives came alongside me and gave me their input on the book as well. So is collaborating in the long run, this is Janet is thriving in her life and her relationship is less joyful intent woman. If God can do that in Janet's life he could do that any member and it's the light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Jim is Dr. Michael Brown.

Looking back fire. I'm speaking with Janet Weinstein is the author of the brand-new book gone and sexuality above the weight in a moment I want to let you know how you can get a free copy of my brand-new book co-authored with my wife Nancy breaking the stronghold of food getting rave reviews about the book review for people and telling us but it's only finished reading the book they lost 10 pounds or 7 1/2 pounds another on the way to a brand-new lifestyle will tell you get a free copy of that along with an exclusive teaching DVD that we put out on the subject. I'll come back to that in a moment, guess Janet points her new book God and sexuality. Janet, you've heard it over and over and over again. There's no such thing as X gave there's no such thing as formal homosexual former lesbian either.

You were never really gay or you're actually bisexual and repressing part of your life, or you're just living a repressed life. You've heard that obviously over and over scabby little frustrating because you know yourself, you know, the skin that you walk in, but tell me what Jesus did in your life and tell me about your life in the Lord know what's it like, you know, Michael, a lot of people thinking you come out of homosexuality.

Do you still struggle with me. I don't rightly say why I don't still struggle with politics when I walked out of that life in 1998. I did look back. I don't have 1 foot in the world and 1 foot in the church. I had both feet and plunge myself in the word of God and prayer might change my soul rounding.

I had great people around me. A warrant you know a bunch of preachers and teachers. These were just ordinary family who I started spending time with on a regular basis. I want to Bible study.

I went to everything that that's almost like going to 90 days, 90 every time the church door was open.

I was in it and when you start changing your surrounding thing start to look differently don't have a desire and again I getting tempted as you are and and that's where the groundwork started for me now.

The enemy always try to Me that area absolutely. But if the Bible is true and is sharper than Intuit disorder and appears at the heart of the Merrill and we have to know what tools we need in order to to keep ourselves right before God. I started to take what I knew was Beth and that was the word of God and I started using it as Jesus did it beat the devil to a pulp. I disorder and memorize the Scriptures and I started using and eventually the Bible says that the devil will fully started the bullying he realized after a period of time that he can no longer use that to Me now will become another area for long. There's been on planet Earth as long as the devils on planet always on it.

But the Bible never says Dr. Michael Brown upon our salvation were not to be Not have thought it had desire because you will, but you still have to master it. You still have to be as transparent as you can have good people around you so you can confide in them.

But he can pray for you because prayers don't work. It wasn't thrown out the window. In the Old Testament it works today. Yesterday and for ever with the pray for each other and continue to lead flip each other up people different and you know what you're basically saying is the exact same counsel you would give to someone who was an alcoholic who was a drug addict who was addicted to pornography who had any other life controlling addiction or sin. The exact same counsel that that you totally surrendered to the Lord you turn your back on your past you don't leave the door open you you flee. What's wrong you pursue that which is right you immerse yourself in the word and prayer. You do which gives notably was exactly what I did. Coming out of drugs in the whole decadent lifestyle. I was living and in the same results.

Liberty and freedom in Jesus and then vigilance it I realize what you got married a Stella to be vigilant with thoughts about other women that doesn't and then you know I radically change my relationship to food, to have years ago, but that's how I did it. I shut the door on the wrong and I don't open it and I immerse myself in the new so the same gospel. The same power of the spirit, the same trees work either way, Janet. When sure a lot of people think me every time that I never heard this before for you and me what you're on drugs.

The weather here try to get over overeating elaborate matter what it is Dr. Michael Brown at the prop happen overnight. Now let me clarify that I'm not but God in the box.can do anything you want but most of the time. 98% of the time were going to go to a profit, but one put in front of the other and walk this thing out and when you do that you're able to teach others how to go to a profit. Maybe it might not look like your process, but Lisi able to get them some steppingstone on how they can get to from point A to point B yet and it's this look at some people have in instantaneously and instantaneous deliverance from some traveling ersatz but even then there's the process of living a new life and many times people may look at your life, it's a man you got it together your whole. You write books or on Christian TV but but you weren't there overnight.

There is the growing in grace and in the transformational process that you mention. I'm glad you bring that word in like a problem working you said you you keep doing that. What does that mean a new light anymore being quite new creation old things passed away and all things become you. I don't think a lot of Christian, even those millennial's that are coming up today. They're not stupid. I think their smartest can be a lot of people don't realize that once they asked Jesus into their light. The oldest calculate me.

Remember that any you are now a new person and now let's start walking in that so you must change your way of thinking renewing of guidelines you do that with the word of God so I used to be a certain thing. I'm not that anymore. And God doesn't relate to me based on who I used to be, nor should I relate to myself based on who I used to be better to say why don't always like to be called homosexual homosexuals are as I'm concerned, I'm a person just like a no drug addict or overeater or whatever it may be I got off track. I took a bunny rabbit trail now, you know I'll come home to Christ on the person that God has intended for me to be from the foundation of the earth. When I came out of my mother's will, but sometimes we take a different path than what God has called called that I have a hard time with that term homosexuals and I get a yes I've come out of that life but that's not who I that's what I did not like that. In fact, the only reason I ever make reference to that is to reach out to others who are struggling and relates a solid sister in the Lord with a burning passion to glorify Jesus. And if I introduce you certain way.

The reason is so that other people will hate this woman I'm speaking to have something to say. So many of you have only to continue my conversation with John points if you miss any of it.

Just go to the line of fire.org catcher entire conversation new book God and sexuality. He friends a shout out everyone if you've not yet joined our support team this week become a torch for one of our monthly supporters get a free copy of a new book, breaking the stronghold elusive not available anywhere else go to the line of fire.org to find out it's the light a fire with your host activist, author internationals and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the light of ironbound by calling 86643 here again is Dr. Michael Brown warnings God and sexuality can great reviews on Amazon. I felt so good about the book so good about Janet's testimony and or ministry that I wrote the forward to the book, Janet, what are you counsel parents to do you do this in the book. But let's go through it. Now they've got say 16-year-old daughter and she sits her parents down raised in the church she sits her parents down one day and says mom and dad. I watch normal lesbian Howdy well on what they do. You know funny because we just got received an email why don't I call it the parent this weekend along with two other. Another couple that we work very closely with Dr. Michael Brown in the book. I wanted to get them some guideline but it's different for everybody that we work with based on what they're dealing with a parent called me. I like to find out one about the parent. I don't really ask a lot of questions about the child right away.

I want to find out what the parents and and upbringing and how they raise their child in a lot of times within the Christian home, but we always try to encourage our parent not to throw darts at their kids, both from a metabolic phone call me Haydon don't draw them out of the house, but have respect for them as well as you want your child to have for you. Find out what caused your child to going, what is the root cause and then listen to them because what ever they are dealing with might not be what you're dealing just wished back that this is what caused them to go on to life and I might not be anything he might have been out with the wrong person. And then at the same time. A lot of times our parents, our kids go to counseling go to counseling what they're 18 or 19 or 20 years old or not, want to go to.

I think once we sit down and have a better understanding of why our child decide to go into that life. I think that's what we have to really go to prayer start asking God what can we do differently. How do we love our child can be make an impact, yes your first words figure child will make the biggest impact on how you respond and how you take this to prayer and then you get help for yourself and come back and sit down and talk with your child based on guideline for somebody else to give any information to help them move forward.

Although every family is different, every family relationship is different every child's reason for quote coming out or for saying this is I believe this is who I am or how they got support Winston. It's different in every case there may be a lot of similarities, but different. Every case but if you have a tell parents okay here are the best words to start with.

Here are the worst words to start with what you tell, love, we don't support your views.

We will not invalidate you. This is our belief system. We believe Jesus Christ is the way the truth unlikely don't support but as our child are going to continue to love you because what our kids are looking for in the validation they're looking for you to offer and I was felt parent. If you are firm down you are supporting their views. You can talk, post back your mouth you can't say hey I don't support your views and then affirm and say okay you can have your you know your significant other, but the house. The fifth from one of the things you have to make a stand because what I'm hearing from parent and found child if my mother or father would have given in to my belief system. I would have never probably come back to work because then I would happily what they believe is not real digitally banned from sorry to did you know that your mother loved you, even without affirming my mother loved me no matter what. But you know what she found me one thing we have to realize that each culture finishes is grace, and then Janet before you go to a letter from a pastor help in answering together bring you file the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the minor fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH dear again is Dr. Michael Brown on the line of fire Michael Brown speaking with Janet warnings her brand-new book, God and sexuality truth and relevance without compromise. We had a take a break there and cut you off in mid sentence.

Mid-thought you were saying that you were loved by your mother but also affirmed in the sinful lifestyle and began to talk about cultural we had to cut you off okay yes because my brother and I like my brother came long before I was gay became a homosexual in high school and he died in 1999 and the people spend will take you further if you want to go and keep you longer than you want to stay but you my brother could never have anticipated that he would've died at the early age of 40, but what I'm saying about that any African-American family in Germany email but we don't deal with this issue like some of the Caucasian family more emails from Caucasian families and African-American family and I know Remy can American family that are dealing with homosexuality.

They would rather turn a blind eye just like African-American churches & not all African-American churches like this thing doesn't even exist. They only wanted they don't even want to deal with the ethnocultural thing because we have always in the African-American homes and churches and schools we might fight against each other and family companies content back each other up and stand up dust them right up next to you whether sometimes is right or wrong, which I think is really fat because love is telling somebody the truth even when you know they're going to reject you and turn their back on you, so we don't do a lot at an African-American family now today. My mother is still happy I'm serving God. My mother's biggest fear at the evening.

That one day Emma go out on the open become understand that I need but my mother through the whole life of home for Kelly a 14 year that I lived in that like my whole family supported me. I need right now. Cousins out there that are dealing with homosexuality. I don't treat them any differently.

They know where I stand but every time I see them I throw my arms around them and hug them you know they'll have not a benefit in their lot and I'm hoping that my love for them. One day will draw them to Rick amen made it maybe so I Janet I got a letter on my desk here from a pastor of a small inner-city Pentecostal churches in a recent Ridge book Dr. Brown can you begin Christian wonderful book. An excellent reader. Use the text in my Bible class is in my next Bible class I would dealing with transsexualism, and transgender is him in the local church. So yes three questions number one would you say were parishioner in your church you had sexual reassignment surgery. To be clear that person still attend your church and they want to be called and recognized by their new name would you tell this pastor while you know that's difficult when you don't know you don't know the pastor I meet every situation is different.

You don't know this person you know he has transition three assignment surgery used to be a girl. Now is a boy is boy. Neither girl I dealt with this before and I asked him to talk with me person and I say I know I know without a shot of it out you were born a boy nine your girl or vice versa, but will you allow me the respect for Heidi to mother your mother's womb to call you the name that you are born with. I know that that's not what you want. A lot of people say will let me call you at me because you know that you are now, but you're still my personal opinion everybody have a different opinion I feel that you still validating their behavior, even if he didn't have an opportunity to talk with them in person call letting me but when you're in private asked him if you column Joe if there is no woman that cannot really a man. Can I call you Harry. That's how I dealt with it yet. Janet, I'm with you on it if I'm introduced to someone that's that's transsexual and the odds that silly name they give me and I don't know anything else.

I have no choice in responding.

That's one thing, but I will immediately do my best to avoid it. Define some neutral when I was on Tyra Banks and there is a man with 16 surgery and is now knows that the rockstar of 16 surgery. This is a medical doctor. I knew if I refer to him in in male terms tire and the whole audience would be furious with me and I was trying to get them to hear something I was saying and then that was that battle need to fight them but because the man is a medical doctor, I just referred to him with his last name. Dr. Bowers and out and I've done that to Dr. Michael right last night know something is not right. I just change yet so took it to the pastor, the Janet I agree that the say with all respect. We believe God created you a certain way in and we be validating something we believe is not true, it would be no different than if that person saw that he was Paul McCartney or if that person thought that he was deeply deeply believed that he was part alien species whatever and what is it with all respect.

We love you, but we we cannot validate that and what I would also say is if that person came under conviction from the spirit which often happens and realize I've made a terrible mistake but I've encouraged is best to drop out from where you are going do whatever you can surgically get off the hormones and then once you start to look and feel the way God created you find a new home church where everyone can know you for your okay, second question, Janet, would you say that someone is in sin. If they had sexual reassignment surgery, are they in sin. If there transgender taking hormones while a really good question. He's come my way on a title such as this is my answer. The person directly basis to really want to and made a commitment to God over 18 years ago that I would stay true to his work. I felt my heart only say that if I answer that I promised the Lord when he when I knew that I was going to be in the ministry. I heard it in my belly, not audibly, and I don't think there's often stay true to my word. I'll take you places you never dreamed of but many will get away from our when it comes to this issue. While only thing I can say is that if you decide to transition have reassignment surgery. I do believe it because the Bible says in Jeremiah that are endangering your mother's will that I know every hair on your head. God has chosen for you to be male or female before one of us to say I don't like you made me could be. I want to be something different by slapping a and another thing, I believe what that were doing. Personally, even though we don't recognize that word you were turning our back on God turn our back on our mother and father is an I don't like who I will.

God loves you who you are eating me this way for a reason, whether you agree or not any enemy comment like a flood and Earline P and Phil only thing I can say that yes, Dr. Michael Brown, my personal opinion I believe it let me let me add this for pastor. There are people who are in agony. They are deep emotional, mental and spiritual pain.

They believe the only out with humans and that gives them peace is to identifies other than the way they were born they were born biologically, solely male or female, and now they the date the only way they have peace of mind. They feel as if there is hormones at 16, surgery I would look at a case like that and say that yes, it is sinful to try to change God made us.

But that is a past road recognizing John of course recognize this person is is in agony and in right now they're doing the set of weakness and confusion. So I would meet them there and say there is a better way. And once they can see that better way than to persist in the old ways is sitting with her eyes open pastor last asked to do for many books about transsexuals, and transgender is in the church go to help for families.com HLP the number four families help for families.com not.com and checked October work help for number four families.com and sex change regret.com you find a lot of resources there help the number four help for families.com and sex change regret.com look at some important resources there are.

Janet, these are the types of difficult issues tackling your book God and sexuality. If folks want to visit your website where they go www.channel on your why ministries chloro.com I Janet Goins ministries.com. The new book God and sexuality.

Janet may the Lord use you to bring life and liberty and freedom to many around America and around the world think Dr. Michael Brown you're very welcome. All right friends we come back we are going to change subjects after this important discussion and we are going to focus on what is happening right now White House Senate press confirmation hearing so say to her minutes come back to where the authorities for by Expo light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown your voice and more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael I am that is controversial, yet what else is new.

All right, you know that I am first and foremost a follower of Jesus first and foremost a follower of Jesus. I am a radio host. Secondarily I'm an author.

Secondarily I'm a preacher. Secondarily I'm a professor secondarily of debate. Whatever else right so I'm not your typical gospel radio show.

I'm not your typical conservative talk show host, because I I have to be true to the calling on my life just like these others have to be true to what is the calling on their lives. So if I was a standard conservative talk show host, I would be all about pro-conservative anti-liberal were ever river had the opportunity to be bashing the Obama administration praise the Republicans. Whatever the case would be I'm stereotype you will you get the point of you know that my views are strongly conservative based on Scripture that my views on many key issues have different deeply then with our president with our outgoing Pres. Barack Obama that I have a Waterview Suncoast with President-elect Trump and in many other areas will have concerns and questions so it's not just one or the other.

But here's here's the point only hears of us. It is controversial. If you were really upset with Pres. Obama going after Fox News a lot and and blaming them in an almost demonizing them or, conversely, if you were always cheering on Fox News going after Obama.

Don't use a double standard. Now another was if you were cheering on Fox News for going after Pres. Obama over these last eight years or you were cheering on Rush Limbaugh going after Pres. Obama these last eight years, then don't be all upset that CNN and other media they're going after Donald Trump these days were they went after Ted Cruz registering the primaries. That's just the way it's gonna be conservative attacked the liberals. Liberals and attacked the conservatives wouldn't bring in libertarians and all these others were there. If it conversely conversely if you were upset with Barack Obama for singling out Fox News and don't get upset with Donald Trump for singling out CNN so young to be an equal opportunity offender that that woods was good for the goose is good for the gander. Let's just be consistent in our criticism right is the same Canon of criticism. If you are going to blame the middle for what the fringe does on the left. Then do the same on the right. If you are going to blame an entire religion for what fringe crack practitioners do then do it with your own religion. If you going to take the best of your religion or the best of your party or the best of your demographic you compare it to the worst of someone else's then you're being inconsistent, hypocritical and dishonest.

The problem is we see things so passionately we have such deep convictions. It's all too easy for us to do that very thing. So Donald Trump now at a press conference, branding, CNN fake news and and what really pushed him over.

Now is the fact that Buzz feed circulated a report that should never have been released really the been printed that the more we know and understand claiming that Donald Trump was letting it say what he was allegedly guilty of and that Russia had evidence of it and in the what took place at the Ritz Carlton Russia and on and off and according to him, it is absolute nonsense. He said Russia even says it is quote a complete and total fabrication. Other nonsense and end of since paid for by political opponents. The whole thing is just hit job to try to discredit him and make him look bad and you say will you National Enquirer puts the sins out exactly exactly that CNN then wouldn't wouldn't repeat them other than to say National Enquirer has this new chart you just let the thing go. You don't make it your own news and then report.

If so, they come under attack and Donald Trump has just said your fake news about Angela let you ask a question at the press conference. Things are heating up its it is ugly. It's going to get uglier say what should we be doing.

Pray for God to shake America wake up the church touch the nation.

That's what you should pray for in the midst of all this that's going on. I will go to hell New Jersey Mike, thanks for holding welcome to the line of fire. Hiram Dr. wrote back to Hillary Clinton referred to Vladimir Putin as Hitler for his annexation of the Crimea in his activities in the Ukraine. The strictures that Obama and I could never outgrow it on Russia are costing them at least $100 billion a year. Also put up $500 billion Exxon Mobil deal on on on ice so obviously up former KGB would love to have somebody does refer to him as Hitler and in the White House so Ed and Harris, I care to say why Trump who will go after Rosie O'Donnell can't say anything about evil dictator who who who shoot reporters in the street like Vladimir Putin. This is about you and Hillary Clinton a couple years back was three years ago now, so that Putin's actions are like what Hitler did. And of course a lot of pushback to that.

The question is, is Trump impressed with Putin as a fellow alpha male type leader is impressed with him is does he like the fact that Putin has spoken well of him in the past and with the Russians trying to get Trump in and Hillary out. That is one theory.

Another theory is that Trump is thinking hey, this is what he said the press conference today. If we can get along great.

But if not good you were gonna do saying that Russia and China and Japan and Mexico have far more respect for America under his administration than under the Obama administration and the point there would be it's going to be a strong America. You may hate us but you going to respect us all. Are they in cahoots in any way. The only thing that seems certain is that overall Russia did not influence the outcome of the elections that seems to me freely. Certain course others are going to dispute that.

But Mike we shall see what Russia sentiments are and how Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin get along bricks to loosen the confirmation hearings, Marco Rubio really going after him for Secretary of State questions about his relationship with Russia. His business relationships with Russia. This can help America, do we look at Russia as as our archenemy or someone that can be a distant ally important questions and I appreciate you raising the issue for us. Mike White friends we are out of time and always so much going on to go to the line of fire.org check out the most recent videos and articles should be enriched less. Join us today to cover free resource offer with the line of fire is out on my bottom line. Pray pray pray about you shake America bring us 20 my guest today great cocoa has written a brand-new book about the story of reality stage for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown five word sum up the gospel story in five words.

What are the foundations of our faith. What is the story of reality of the world begat begin how will the world and and what is happened between the beginning and end of the world great importance. That's what my guest. Great cocoa has addressed you know from stand to reason ministries, a leading apologist's new book, the story of reality. Just looking at the back cover. It is a who's who of Christian leaders who have enthusiastically endorsed the book to talk about this today. If you consider yourself to be a follower of Jesus and a believer in the Scriptures you will this to be an eye-opening interview if you say I'm not so sure about this.

Are there many different ways to God and isn't the Bible just one of many different religious books. I think you can find this to be really eye-opening interview as well. Greg welcome back to light a fire. Thanks so much for joining us, Michael.

It's great to be on board with you again today about Greg Witt wearing the day right now of swirling a political questions and animosities and everything swirling around us and it ultimately the same answers the same problems and they ultimately come back to God's word that that has the answer. You have kind of an audacious title for this book. The story of reality we must fake news now fake media story of re-using the that the ultimate reality is only found in one place is is that what you say what I'm saying is that there is a state of the world.

There is a way things are and that it's possible to discover some of the important pieces of that that the nature of reality, so to speak. When it comes to the Christian accounting of things of the Bible does give the story of reality and it get in.

We have good reason to believe that it gets the story right. And the reason that I spy titled it impart the story of reality is because people lived for so long as you know is relative iced truth in general, but especially a religious truth that your truth you have your truth. I have my truth yet is true that everybody has their own little make as story that makes us feel happy kind of thing and my point is that it is not the point of the accounting of the world that the Bible gives of the Bible means to tell us the way things really are. That is, the characters, the story really lived. The offense really happened to are going to happen on this is an accounting of the way things are anathema that that's like right out of the gate.

I want people to I get the sense of what kind of claim we are making real Christians relative iced the rodeo and they say what is my view about a white gonna be your view, this is about what's going on on the inside of Christians, their faith, their feelings, their relationship with God. All those things are really important.

But Jesus saw this whole project first from the outside before the inside. That is, if the accounting of the world that Christianity offers. The Bible offers is not true and what is not true. On the outside that it doesn't matter what happens on the inside because it is going to help you anything unless we are on to something true and accurate here and that's really the force of of the title of the book the story of reality.

Since we're going to speak with Greg and some death dive into the contents of this book, Lee Strobel says it is a beautifully crafted description of the Christian worldview written in the accessible, winsome and well reasoned matter.

Think of really 200 pages and skintight helper will begin how it ends and everything important that happens between these was the story of reality. Great cocoa you pay L so spiritual truth is not relative of your beliefs that I have my absolutes really think that if we come back the light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown. We live in an age of postmodernism. But post truth. My guest today will apologist and the leader of stand to reason ST or.org very important apologetics website and ministry I guess.

Great cocoa was written the book the story of reality and let's start right there. Greg, how you react to the idea that were living in a post truth age. Well I think that's that's true, it's hard to go to just need to be qualified very popular now to dismiss any kind of absolute statement about reality is just merely one's own truth that your truth by truth, etc. etc. all but people actually live that way. I mean really what it comes down to it they they think there is a real quote out there and we are truth seekers by nature Michael.

In fact, if we could know certain things to be true. We be dead in a day.

Let's face it, there becomes more skepticism know when it comes to the question of spiritual truth, religious truth that category and I think it's pretty straightforward to me at falls kind of the same category look the claim that God exists is either true or false. It doesn't make any good to say well it's your truth that he does but it's my truth that he does it mean listen if the story is not accurate to reality. It's not any kind of truth that all so could never be my truth or your truth. Even if we believe it can only be our delusion or our mistake or our error, but it can never be our true so this is kind of silly way the people been talking about it that guy gets in the way of us discovering what's what's true about the world and especially the important thing.

I think the question the very basic question like does God exist is a question that we have some resources that will help us to answer, so I have no reason to accept this this very broad-based religious skepticism when it comes to the question of truth that we shared our culture today so you would say ultimately that our worldview should be based on trips that was I if him and live in this world, I should understand certain things about life you want, when I jerk go to the store to to buy is noted to buy some groceries when I go to buy an Apple. I understand that as an apple and iron elephants, and on an alligator right out of the district in a bowl of ice when I went to go to get on a plane.

I understand this plane takes me somewhere so like you said a few beautifully certain things are true, we can't live it all yeah what we would we would die today.

Think of a worldview worldview is a few about the way the world is so even the concept worldview has built into it. The notion that were trying to figure out the accurate way the world is just making up our own fantasy. It is ironic that sometimes people will talk about the facts of the world as if there are so certain and they buy into that notion. But then when it comes to other things that they don't like it a religious point of view maybe crowd them or cramp their freedom a little bit will then all was of a start, relative, Isaac. Yes.

So when we speak with Christian worldview. The way we often think of it, or the way other series is as followers of Jesus. This is how we see the world when you're saying in your book.

The story of reality is based on truth. This is how the world should be seen and we as followers of Jesus have the truth. Yeah Mike let a great way of putting it. I think the first way to put it is fine if we were talking 50 years ago. Now when we use that kind of language it is. It is understood by people to be relativistic language as followers of Jesus. This is what our club. Have you know the rules of our club you have ever club your followers of Krishna or boot what you have different roles we get at it work at all in the same game but with different clubs. That's what we have to make the distinction. I think the way you followed up in, repaired the statement was a great way of putting it, requiring great coatings that disturb reality is the clearest explanation of the Christian worldview have ever read written style everyone can understand. Jay Warner Wallace the many of you know him cold case Christianity. He says of your book. Greg, a modern classic like CS Lewis before him.

Great cocoa has written a masterful measured intelligent and insightful book a must read for anyone who wants to understand Christianity that then leads to the question.

Who did you write the story of reality for well this is an interesting question is not for yourself, you know every author wants to say my book is for everybody kind of thing and then we tell a publisher that you write on but but it turns out that this particular book has a very wide audience.

Since it's meant to give a wide-angle picture of the Christian story from beginning to and covering the important details and the emphasis is on the important things that happened in between is white only 200 pages or less and on volumes and volumes is in order to and in order to do that, you know, I had to speak at a very, very clear and basic way covering the foundation of Christianity, and I figure it all. There's a lot of Christians out there that don't have the foundation they been around for a long time their city and in the pews.

All of the country and make but they don't get it and and this is really tragic and so this is meant to lay that lay the story out for people been around for a while but never put it all together into a kind of coherent whole. It's also for new Christians who want to get foundation right out of the gate were and it's also been for more mature Christians who get the story but want to teach it well in discipleship or Bible training classes are Sunday schools are those kinds of things and I put together where I think it will be easy for them to transfer but notice that whole audience is with in the church great, but to be honest with you when I'm think I'm said, now banging away at the keys Michael in my mind I'm thinking of the non-Christian.

As I'm wordsmithing I'm organizing my ideas and my argument that however all the things are going I'm thinking, how is the non-Christian going to read this does this language make sense that is a is a bothersome it doesn't sound like a religious tract. Therefore, it doesn't have a flow and up and up and a rhythm to it that it will be pleasing to their ear and my talking to them in a gracious way. My style of this book Mike listed is really to engage the reader to talk with the reader much like Lewis does in the end. Mere Christianity admitted for the comparisons into bold ideas that was mine that was my model, so I'm hoping that there are lots not only I hope that a lot of non-Christians are to read this because there Christian friends found out that this is a book that they can give to them without being embarrassed. This is a book that they can give to them that's going to be solid and foundational and not going out on a limb doctrinally in anything but also is written in it in a genial, friendly style that is very accessible to somebody who's not a church all the time and that the subtitle again. It's a great way to draw someone in obviously a Christian who knows your ministry knows your books that are easily awaiting your new book so will dive in, others will see the endorsements and cement us.

This sounds interesting. I should check this out, but if someone just you being an airport and see this book put out some of my titles is no way you see put out an airport you that the subtitle how the world began, how it ends and everything important that happens in between. Did you come up with after the publisher, for the consensus of Donald. I bet that's my wording. Actually, the story of reality was used to be the subtitle, and I different that there was a different title of the title is Credo CRED oh, that was a working title for 15 years for this project and I sat across from Jay Warner Wallace about a year ago at dinner and that the one whose endorsement you just read in any Genesis to decant Holly Credo know you're talking about the origin of the title and in 15 minutes to convince me so I took my subtitle about book the story of reality I made at the title and then I went to the first paragraph of the book and ideas that this sentence how the world began Howard down and everything important that happened the between eyepatch to the end is a relatively long subtitle and I had a little a little struggle with my publisher on this one man, that's a lot of word I said just read it out loud, but it does read aloud, I said to my editor any read it out loud. Yeah, that works all right will stick with it so I'm glad that it worked out that way but I gotta give credit to Jay Warner Wallace for his insistence that I do something different on the title and I'm really glad I did. Yeah I I once had a title for my book.

That's so now entitled to go and sin no more coal holiness, including the words of Jesus in John eight and I just another translation that it said stop sinning or something like that and I was talking to a friend during the service reviews getting ready to preach and I was there teaching in the daytime and Robert were sitting there before the service of thousands of people out the auditorium. This is Mike not stop sinning once and the more I thought all yeah right, not more familiar words of Jesus. There they iron sharpens iron in good thank God for friends and colleagues right. I want to dig into some of the substance in this book as we been introducing it in the why and the how of the book Greg Coco's brand-new literally hot off the press. The story of reality. Many of you know Nancy Piercy. She wrote the forward to this book of the great Christian thinkers today hello will begin how it ends and everything important happens between him and the center on five words would you just touch quickly on each of these words, God man Jesus cross, resurrection, those of the biggies. Those in the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown that will with a degree that the most important question of all questions is if there is a God who has created them.

Then does he require anything of them. Does he have anything for them. The most fundamental of all questions. My guess Greg Coco has a brand-new book, the story of reality and, ultimately, he identifies the most important things that happen in the story of reality in the order they take place. God man Jesus cross resurrection. So Greg, you got a whole book on this little under 200 pages. So it's very readable, and it opens up great deep concepts, but let's just jump in and touch on each of these to give folks a taste of what's in the book. Let's start with God. Okay, got on my point here was really I started this whole project is to think about you. What of the Cold War, the cynical and on the absolute essentials of Christianity of these are the concepts that came up and I realize that the order of the story to that kind of the plot line is you mentioned that the important things in the order they took place. So they are foundational theological concepts, but are also the plot line to our story, our story has a beginning and it starts this way in the beginning God created the heavens of the earth that it tells us a couple of things right out of the gate.

First, it tells us to the story is about the story is about God. It is not about us. We come later were important. We have our part to play, but were not the center of the program, known as younger Christian. I used to say something. I have some value, but I look at it differently now you to say God is a wonderful plan for your life. Now I think of it as now it it's really there is a it is our lives for God's wonderful plan. We are subservient to that God is in charge of his program is not only is program at his world. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. He made the world. It belongs to him because he made it. That means everything is here is including me and you and the rest of us. Okay, this also sets the stage of the story for something else. It shows that there are two kinds of things in the world that God made. There are visible things of the world and there are invisible things. So we have God who is an invisible personal being and we have all these other physical things is made. Now this is important because you have to judge any story by the world in a certain sense that that it it sits with him on so if you go to read the Hobbit or something like out there all kinds of strange things that happen there and it wouldn't happen in our world because we know were in a different world there. It makes perfect sense. Some people don't like the idea of miracles.

They think that just sounds ridiculous a water into wine people rising from the dead.

But if we see in our stories.

Those are the kind of things that fit right into our story because from the very beginning. You have a material things that a personal God, you have material things and you have God over that. Using his power to do what he well so the concept of changing water and white rhino raising the dead or letting the Red Sea or stopping the sun.

All of those things fit right into our story and so therefore if we have good reason to believe the story is too true that that's entirely plausible and we are to take it seriously.

Select step God at the beginning/God.

The next step is man, of course, the God created man to be in friendship with man.

But then something happened you know he made man special manager creaturely is not a little God but he's also not like anything else he's beautiful. And that is made in the image of God. But something happened. There was a rebellion and man became broken and this is real important point Michael when man became broken by his own actions. He also broke the world to see.

A lot of people are concerned about the problem of evil as they should be. What they don't often realize is that the Christian story deals with the problem of evil. It's all about the problem of evil. It talks about how it started and it talks about how it gets all started because man did something in rebellion to God that influenced everything else no man God could have just said okay that that you don't lower the boom on man like he did the angels when they rebelled, but he didn't. He decided to initiate a rescue operation out of love for man and the way he did that, if he became a man himself in the person of Jesus.

We have God man Jesus Jesus the Elvis is developing what the important thing about Jesus. Well who he was and what he came to do what he was the God man.

He was perfect God incarnate God it at the incarnate God incarnate in man fully human and fully divine. And there's reasons why this is all important that I go into in the book he represents us and he represents God at the same time he could do something as the divine son of God, that no other human being can do. He could rescue other big all of them and and how did he do that well.

He lived the perfect life that we should've lived and then he made a trade his life for hours at a rate happened all on a rock outcropping of rock outside of ancient Jerusalem. The locals call the Golgotha. We gnawed at Calvary, the place of the cross on the cross, Jesus traded his righteousness for our sin with pulp, which is that he made him father made Jesus who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in him. The reformers called the marvelous exchange and that's a gift we can Be earned. It can only be received. We have to trust Jesus for it and what we do about that offer what happened on the cross determines what happened at the final resurrection where there will either be perfect justice punishment for everything we've ever done wrong and God misses nothing or perfect mercy, forgiveness for everything we've ever done wrong and God misses nothing so there's the story had brief God man Jesus cross and resurrection. Hey Greg, it's it's easy to take 30 hours to explain that it's easy to write 3000 pages explaining that it takes gift to explain in three minutes and open it up to less than 200 pages, but that's what you done now on the radio and in the book the story of reality, how the world began, how it ends and everything important that happens in between J.P. Moreland, another top apologist and professor says Coco's best and most important book to date. I couldn't put it down Johnny Erickson Todd, of whom you know and love, Greg addresses the heartfelt plea of everyone who asked why am I here I highly recommend the storybook Sean McDowell, Josh McDowell, son clarifying and insightful for believers eye-opening and thought-provoking for nonbelievers book worth reading carefully. Greg, I want my staff members will be.

So the book come in. I said hate you can borrow it. He's been devouring it and you're one of his favorite apologist while I'm so glad you could join us on the air today, meet may the Lord give you great success in getting this message out. Thank you.

Michael is very kind to get the book@ftr.org by the way, one of the places that our website written FTR.org.

It is always a treat to talkative Michael, thanks for the good work you're doing. Sure thing. God bless you. Much appreciated right great-uncle book. The story of reality. All right, friends, we come back we are diving into the fray. Oh, I just during a break I've been looking at online heavy headlines will talk about policy situation. It's the light a fire with your host activist, author, international speed and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 86634 through here again is Dr. Michael Brown welcome welcome friends to the line of fire. This is Michael Brown.

So glad to have you on the broadcast today. I have been looking at headlines during the break on my show today in these previous 90 minutes and things are volatile after the Donald Trump press conference 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 87884 Drudge Report front and center.

There's the CNN logo red on black and in the quote from Donald Trump during the press conference. You are fake news boom then over on CNN big headline Trump sets the tone then over on the Huffington Post, so Huffington Post is as far left is Drudge Report is right in red conflicts on unleased then in black at war with media and Intel and a picture of Donald Trump in a volatile looking picture that friends, things are shaking in ways that I have not seen and as long as I can remember. Honestly in my memory. I cannot think of another time where there was this much shaking taking place from the top of our government down obviously Pres. Obama still our president gave his farewell speech last night. I'm looking to get into that speech and my goal with his eight years is nothing to sit here and attack him every day issues come up that I have addressed otherwise. I do my best to avoid mentioning the president in a negative light. And that's for a number of reasons with issues that come up that concern the bird me that I feel especially to address. I do, but obviously the man in the news and the men carrying the news is our President-elect.

This would be the case with any incoming and outgoing presidents, and he has basically had it with intelligence leaks think something is wrong and this ought not to be happening. Are there people against them in the intelligence agency. Maybe they're always against him.

Or maybe they're against her because the way he slammed them recently is that it is just part of the larger Washington establishment that is being taken on you talk about something volatile you talk about Donald Trump Senate buzz feed and then CNN which claim some of their their reporting is been totally different and they're not just repeating slanderous unverified reports like buzz fee didn't alleging things about Trump that aren't true, alleging Russian involvement.

It's not true know were doing better than ending this thing is really exploding in Donald Trump saying the keys are fake news.

Your fake media will very intense, such as their it's that stuff is exploding to the surface in terms of how people feel in terms of people's viewpoints and a lot of the identities politics now coming up with Sen. Jeff sessions and his hearings for Atty. Gen. and the old laws from every second is that they are all lies and false allegations against him being racist and sees all the evidence is against it.

Number black pastors have come out on his behalf, Sen. Richard Booker, himself black and from what I knew. Worked together with Jeff sessions on civil rights action last year's saying that he can't be trusted on civil rights. This to me is the ultimate exposure of the whole identity politics that is been so divisive in America and is one side has recently been defeated the liberal side. The Democrats side the Obama Clinton side of the liberal media side. It is not taking the defeat well and is now in a near hysterical state certainly does not mean everything Donald Trump says or does is good right. Certainly, it doesn't mean all the Republicans are right all the Democrats are wrong, but what it does mean that things are really being exposed to the surface and into me. This presents a unique opportunity for the church hearing take the self we come back the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown is you are attacking our news organization is present like a prison like can you give us a question?

You state categorically yeah I played the clip earlier in the broadcast. One of the plate again for everyone listening now, this is Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution so present, like Donald Trump holding a press conference the Trump tower today. He refused to take a question from CNN senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta said you are fake news. Your organization's terrible in the midst of going back and forth.

Don't be rude, though I'm not going to give you a question. You are fake news. Acosta said this wasn't appropriate. Later in the press conference, Trump took a question from CNN reporter Jeremy diamond but you talk about the shaking taking place and as I look at it, friends. As I look at it from the spiritual viewpoint.

This whole word Lance wall mount brought others had brought similar words but in lances word the insight he felt was that Donald Trump would be a divine wrecking ball against everything that was politically correct as of often observed you don't use a wrecking ball to renovate room in your house you use a wrecking ball to demolish something that should be totally torn down on and if you've ever seen in a maybe big city and you've got got in at an old building that's been condemned and discover clear it and you see this massive wrecking ball what it is and it swings an offer crane and push within a few shots. The building is demolished may have taken many many months to build a babe in standing for more than a century, but the matter of a few seconds.

It's Thomas. That's what a wrecking ball does when you are seeking to repair damage to a building you don't use a wrecking ball. When you are seeking to renovate a part of your home. You don't use a wrecking ball. So that's the issue we must pray for God's restraint in God's wisdom Donald Trump and those around him. Those that will be part of his inner circle.

Both will be part of his cabinet administration.

We must pray for wisdom, so that when the wrecking ball needs to swing. It will swing and when it should not swing will not swing. Listen, you have an anvil and and and and you have a hammer that's used for one thing and and you have a very very precise knife that's used by surgeon for another thing, and in the one cannot be substituted for the other. Alright so we need to pray because things are going to get more volatile they are going to get more volatile in the days ahead. In the same could happen internationally, but that being said, I see this is really an extraordinary opportunity for the church to seize the moment and rise up, agree with me see it the same way, 86634.

This is an extraordinary opportunity for the church to rise up and take a stand. Why do I say that because for so many years we have been intimidated by the media.

We have been intimidated by the left. We have felt outnumbered and outmanned were frustrated. You turn on ABC or CBS or NBC. The mainstream networks and there such a strong liberal slant in the worldview of the sitcoms in the dramas, as is often so antithetical to ours and then you go over the cable networks and you got CNN and MSNBC watching sports on ESPN there's gonna be some liberal commentary about something that you were there for sports offer, politics, and it often on Fox you see certain conservative viewpoint, but then there'd be mixtures there that often. It wasn't this early biblical conservatism and unity. Look at that in the New York Times and the Washington Post in USA today need feel intimidated by all the secular media that's out there and then Donald Trump comes along. So is your fake your corrupt you're going down and he goes right past them and he basically makes the news he he sets the news by what he tweets, and by what he says now.

Again, a lot of it is like a bull in a china shop. Understand that a lot of it is like divine wrecking ball or just wrecking ball. I understand. So for example, Meryl Streep goes after him and let's just say that the whole charge which I thought was true initially but now II do question that did he market disabled reporter and he said no. He's just mocking the guy groveling or illustrating and groveling.

You see, he's done very similar things with hand motions when is criticize others over the years for groveling it. Either way, let's give the benefit of doubt our friends and of course he was mocking the guys disability is a major issue I raised him one of the reasons initially so I could vote for him. Of course I didn't ultimately end up voting for him, but to be clear, let's say that he did not mark the reports disability and he's being falsely accused by Meryl Streep. I could see. I could see him saying Meryl Streep is a great actress. I want to make clear, though I would never market disabled reporter for the hundredth time I was talk about him groveling in and that's it.

Not not address the rest of her speech. Nothing else I could see them doing it because it's a sensitive issue to many Americans in every since I had in mind I would never do that. Okay, go ahead and say that you brought me the president and a lot of people are offended by that and say how could you do that and they look at him the same. Well, you must disabled you Mike immigrants shape the Muslims. It hit women degrade women.

So fine.

Maybe say that and save Meryl Streep's. A greatly conscious actress, but she's quite wrong.

I would never market disabled and was disability instead that was, not what he did. He said she's highly overrated and he went after that's always going to do it. So again I'm not saying I would do everything the ways that ignore my the incoming president, would you vote for me to be the incoming president. My point is, he has stood up to the bullies he has stood up to the bullies and he said you're not going to bully me that you say will no no no, he is a bully himself. He I II understand the whole cycle. All I'm saying is this, please. Here I am saying that there should be a domino effect with the dominoes who been knocked down and discouraged and and felt they were outgunned and outmanned and overwhelmed.

There should be the reverse effect domino standing backup now. I wrote an article today if you haven't read it through stream.org it's on Donald Trump.

The Johnson amendment and the question of Christian cowardice and in this article I address this very very simple question.

Let's say the Johnson amendment is removed.

This amendment which limited freedom of speech from the pulpit, specifically prohibited certain tax-exempt organizations from endorsing and opposing political candidates summarized on Wikipedia right prohibited certain tax exempt organizations are to be churches and ministries from endorsing opposing political candidate but say Donald Trump is successful in removing this right will Christian leaders be more outspoken on controversial moral, cultural and political issues and honestly as I said in the article.

I have my doubts since I don't believe it's the Johnson amendment that is muzzle preachers across America. I believe it's the fear of man that's muscled us.

I believe it's our desire to be affirmed by the world. That is, silenced us and it's a repent of the sinful, carnal attitudes, our tongues will not be loosed within paralyzed veterans from the inside not the outside and the removal of outward hindrances will not set us free within it. In reality, the Johnson amendment is I just showed you is quite limited in its scope doesn't prohibit pastors and speaking out against political corruption or gay activism or or abortion, or other things like that doesn't prohibit us from speaking out against a host of other moral and cultural issues you is here that we seriously fail people because these are the issues that that so many of us studiously avoid having lacunae is a controversy must be vilified Wednesday to handle hornets SYS for trouble so now that Donald Trump is basically said to the media you attack me on attack. You have bypassed you and and you say something ugly was false and exposed. You it's it's change the dynamic and I am hoping that although to repeat Donald Trump's ways and methods, and style are not what my style and method would be in terms of I believe there is a way that we must conduct yourselves as followers of Jesus.

And obviously, I would like to see Donald Trump presidential the same time, his thinking on the bullies should embolden us is noxious. Without apology for cleansing and it's the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown to the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown you how I president the president to present a lecture back to the appropriate level of professionalism and respect as well. Yet, when one feeds into the other positively or negatively. I debated a very liberal rabbi. Years ago a gentleman that when I made the statement, the difference between this rabbi and me is that I believe the Hebrew Scriptures of the word of God. He does not he agreed with my assessment as a liberal he was.

But when we went to do the debate I've been doing debates for decades and in the midst of the debate, even if the agreed disagreements are very deep and intense, normally with two professional people speaking are true leaders speaking there is a certain degree of decorum, respect within the debate.

Not always but basically what happened in this debate. Is it it kind of became a street fight. It's as if I trained to use a sports analogy I trained for a boxing match and ended up in a no holds barred street fight so you know when somebody is biting your ankles really kick them in the teeth so I did my best to behave properly and to uphold my end of things, but I felt that the end of the night that that it was messy in that respect.

I didn't like the overall feel of it. For that reason and what's happened here. You can blame either you can blame the media.

First you complain Donald Trump. First you complain both or neither, but Rinne now escalating vicious cycle where things will get uglier and uglier. Remember he did have a big meeting with different media leaders, including the New York Times, I think they had a separate meeting and is again the war for the next four or eight years or is there gonna be some type of rapprochement as they would say and some level will carry a differ, but the hostilities going to disappear either way.

Either way, I'm encouraging you as a follower of Jesus speaks the truth without apology, not in a harsh way, not in an obnoxious way, but in an embolden way 866-34-TRUTH that I'm calling the Trump effect the Trump effect because a lot of the sacred cows are being exposed. That should ask, but encourage us, embolden us to expose them as well. A let's go to Brenda in Gastonia, North Carolina. Welcome to the line of fire high on I can you make a comment about your talk earlier about present electronic bullying anybody could only make the lady cop reporter think about the Telstar Family Court great makes me even more if that meant Ellen Bigley can write yeah well here's here's what happens.

Brenda and and I'm very sensitive to your point of view is something that my wife Nancy and I have talked about a lot there. Let's see three sides to this. Okay here is who Donald Trump really is with his strengths and his weaknesses. For better or worse. Okay then there is the attack on him, which is ugly and over-the-top. And then there is the defense of him, which is over the top of the other way that, in other words, when you see let's say your you believe that Donald Trump with all his flaws and warts is what we need to strengthen our security or strengthen our economy or make America strong and that's what you voted for him right and you think, hey, strange as it is. He's become strongly conservative with pro-life issues and is going to point good justices, the print Supreme Court so despite all the warts and blemishes on a vote for him right now.

You have people coming against him like he's Adolf Hitler you have people coming against him like he's he's ready to start a nuclear war you have Hollywood elites flipping out. So now you go to the other side start to defend him as if he's this perfect St. and I I see it happening on both sides all the time and and I think the same would happen with any leader that those that love them love them out of all proportion. Those that hate the pavement will perforce but Donald Trump is an especially especially volatile controversial individual and it's amazing. Brenda, I write articles and I get attacked for depressed defendant Trump I read articles I get attacked for criticizing Trump. It's almost whatever you do is a promise of in your view, what would be the right way to approach this so that we can defuse the emotion and really talk about the issues. How do we do that well I don't have a magic that now I just wish that he would wish that he would behave like a particulate warranty to be our leader, I wish anybody can make that happen. It has to be 5 PM. Like I said, it just bothers me that that no medical he guys there are that a few. You and the fact that it's one thing if you just got some secular conservative who thinks he's the greatest thing to happen since the latest no beer commercial and and their role for Trump.

It's another thing when when people love the Lord and would never defend that type of behavior from their own spouse or their pastor, Reaven their own child now defending it with the president and and that's where think you have to say look, he's my president. What I like them or not. He's my president dislike Barack Obama was not present. He's my president.

I'm praying for him. I understand why a lot of people like him, but can you see these issues we have to defuse it. Nancy and I had a talk about the whole Meryl Streep Golden globes talk and I said I agreed with her that celebrity has every right to speak like anybody else and let them use their celebrity to make their point us of the flipside is it's the hypocrisy of Holly with the double moral standards of Hollywood and the elitism of Holly with the people reacting to, so we we had a very constructive conversation that could have been if we had been not married and other people could've been volatile because of of each side so I think we have to do is to say, hey, I'm praying for Donald Trump, may have raised him up for this very purpose and hope you will be a good present for America, but could you see this problem.

Can you see how this is inappropriate or this could provoke unnecessary hostility and in look, I'm not looking for him to be this smooth politician. He doesn't tell you anything in it whatever question you ask, you get the talking points with Trump. I think you can get a real reaction, and any Senate address the issue. But yes, would be better if there was a more presidential way and doing it.

If less parties were unnecessarily offended. Yes, let's pray for you. I see it happening anytime soon. In the natural, no. But with God all things are possible. And Brenda just recognize by your friends.

Maybe they feel are size been beaten down for so long and now Donald Trump is can be a champion of religious liberty is, therefore, he's good guy. He's a good got a matter what he does. We gotta do better than that loyal faith. Thank you Brenda sure your heart is appreciated. Make sure to go to the line of fire.org breaking the stronghold. My bottom line today. It's a time of shaking time with the proviso


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