Thoughts on Messianic Judaism and an Interview with an Orthodox Jew, Live from Jerusalem

Your missed today's thoroughly Jewish Thursday broadcast live from Jerusalem stage for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown in the usual, I am Jerusalem no place like it on earth past Pres. and future. This is Michael Brown and we are coming right now live from Jerusalem.

I charge her group here another few amazing days ahead of them. We got some special guests that are to be joining us.

You don't want to miss a single minute of this broadcasting tomorrow night, doubling our last night life or misery you got questions. We got answer so you certainly want to be one of those calls in with your questions takes before I introduce a special guest.

You have got another special guests that I want to introduce to you and David grabbed the mic here.

David is accommodating us in the most amazing way with Sorell Taurus.

He does an amazing job with my friend Scott falcon. Some of the best known ministries in the world coordinates the tours here hold up my credit. David hello if you lived in Israel. Now I have lived in Israel for 25 years 25 years and and how long you worthless RL for 2222.

What's the largest tour group you have accommodated 1800 people went 1800 on what went on tour group.

So that's what that's like six know how many buses 1900�50 okay got exceeded average about event click here about 36 buses roughly. I mean, that's that's extraordinary and were sent from that was international and then we also did the bigger conference. It was even more than that.

Got it. And then that Mike Huckabee's what are your regular Maccabee Gov. Huckabee travels with us regularly appreciate it very much.

It was just her two weeks ago with 400 people a buses. These are major tourist philosopher.

Obviously you enjoy doing that you throw yourself and I keep getting blown away by the personal care that you put into this, but what what have you seen happens to people who come here on the stores where minute share with you what I say to as many of our visitors as I can and I mean what I say. I believe that a visit to Israel has the potential to change a Christian's life. I think that their understanding the Scriptures is dramatically enhanced and changed by being here as is her understanding of their role as Christians with the state and the people of Israel so presents RL.

It's a real pleasure and outreach, a sense of ministry to the church to provide them with the services that they need to travel here in Israel and to not just leftist tour not just sharp but to have a real experience and a deeper understanding of the Scriptures of the biblical sites yeah and and the thing that actually surprised me in on I'm very jealous for our our our folks there are listeners those informants from jealous for their funds to be used right I you know what when we asked them to give. I want to make sure every dime is used for proper purposes. So it's not cheap to fight Israel to to be in hotels to be immature.

So when I finally agreed to lead a tour or or helping to tour to have three years ago I was shocked by how much everyone got the quality of the hotels.

The quality of the food, the amount of the touring the site that this is this is an amazingly good investment topic, but I guess is you.

He reports he probably never gets old for you know it does not it's it's new every morning.

I could almost say got it you have buying from lamentations and nurses are not nearly 1 point not everyone has a church that's doing a tour Christian leader they know or some other group if they just want to find out about tours they can be part of where they go they can get a Massaro websites WW several twins.com or.co and or they can just send them an email to saarlsarel@saarltourssareltours.com Mario Riley is awesome friends get over to Israel will be right back special guest amazing story to a live by the Expo line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown your voice and more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown live from Jerusalem is similar thinking I should of been on this tour yet will double do it again. A reference got them all the time and again you found out how to find out with history several tours. There is an old friend, former student that I want to introduce to you are your read of Goldman's got quite a remarkable story about one him as an Israeli believer to talk about what he seeing God do among the Jewish people and do here.

My but Yuri let's have a little fun at first just give a word short rib greeting in the in Heber settlement glom and have thought about the length of another.

Did my sash around okay and then out in Spanish and by the it has them in the mood so I went is grass ask if then, I and Chinese name and home 10 to 40 men are hush this matter. Cherries learn Chinese recently so you grew up as a boy in Israel, not the believing family correct.

You learned you learned English though pretty well watching watching TV.

So we what we watched cartoons but actually I had a strong interest for some reason in the Middle East. TV we call that with Pat Robertson was playing 700 club a lot.

Super book flying house and at a very young age.

Somehow I really understood English yet so that you would see it in English that have Heber captions, but you can you kind of learned a member the first time he translated for me. I was amazed did learn learned English watching out watching American TV and stuff.

Yeah. So how will we came to faith. I was 16, 16, and worse your life out at that point it was seeking out of a strong background of drug abuse called Eastern religions. That's how I grew up and not drugs with Eastern religions and got into drugs and devastated mentally but basically I and it in Israel today. She has a very, very religious Jews. That's one part of the population.

The majority of the population would be more secular, but among the secular how much interest is there and things like New Age Eastern religion occult that kind of thing New Age type stuff is very prevalent it's it's all through society. It's it's become the norm. The norm in what way the normal of this is that the common talk. People can talk to about energy cosmic energy past life's auto alien aliens and and yeah yeah those are still kind considered a bit weird but again people talk about aliens, common practice, so it's so interesting that the even though you have a higher percentage of Jewish atheist say in America than non-Jewish atheists.

Yet, there's this high percentage of Jews if not religious Jews there on some kind of spiritual search somewhere and now. That's where you found yourself and how did you come to faith well and in the search, I realized I had to call for help.

I got to the point where I realize I really had to cry out for help and I was in in the stream of New Age. It really did not permit invoking the Bible or the God of Israel, but I got to such a desperate place where I actually open the book of Psalms and to some 27 what you think of the Bible. At that point. At that point I thought it was old it was the ancient it did not belong to modern people who had advance enlightenment like I did it, that's fine right at 69 drugs right and I was also light 16 using hallucinogenic drugs to discover the secret of the universe actually will help you ask. You know the feeling. Yeah okay so you start reading scriptures and I really felt God spoke to me because it was during a time of severe at kind of paranoia attack.

He broke through the where the Lord is my light and my salvation whom shall I fear. And even at that time been kicked out of the house so it had the verses as gunk. Everything he has one at a mass of funny that the Lord will gather me up though my mother and father forsake me, which led me to begin to pray when I heard the gospel though from evangelist that I met on the street fully rejected it completely thought it was. It was nonsense, but because I was much more enlightened than that think they really prayed for me after I saw the hand of the creator, sovereignly bringing me to the only then at that time Miss Janik owned drug rehabilitation work in Israel and there is where I heard the gospel rejecting it.

But becoming desperate and I think much due to the prayers of the people who interceded for me and act at the time. I said no, you sure cannot be the way that I became desperate as I got.

I don't care what ways it I have to find you. It was soft knocking on the door and it became to break down the door you have to show yourself to me the night before I came to faith. I debated the evangelists against everything they said early morning, five around 5 AM I woke up and went outside and this southern city of a lot just the very presence of God came instantly, I knew it was you sure just overpowering presence and who had Jesus been to you sure who was see growing up was he in your thinking at all this is that the God of the Catholic Church was he some Jew that was misunderstood.

Who was CT so I'm I'm I had a unique paradigm growing up in a very new eight with a very New Age father and I also have the paradigm of having seen the testimonies and 700 club with Pat Robertson and have having really been touched deeply by these testimonies as it's five and six at six-year-old and prayed actually with him many times and only to forget about these prayers later on. And then when I began to read Narnia books immediately as a kid, maybe about 10 years old. I was like okay I know what you're trying to do here.

I know who Aslan is and it really is so that the image of Yeshua really appealed to me as a good positive image throughout my childhood interesting and you know it's fascinating. Of course, every young man is foolish or ultra-Orthodox can serve in the military for three years correct and I just think it's to test the statistics here that every year there 75,000 young people at discharge from the IDF third of them then travel across Asia and South America supporting businesses at home and abroad. But a lot of this is a spiritual search a lot of and you can go to Kathmandu and the Paul you can go to various places in India. In fact, I have some friends there set up in the Paul to do outreach so Christian friends who love the Lord and they have a house of prayer and and there there specifically for Israelis to come by there and not far from them as an ultra-Orthodox Jewish house kebab that there there group and there set up for this. So there in the Paul and and you get one of my friends was there and he said there even restaurant you go to that that have menus in Hebrew and in the Paul, so there's this level of spiritual seeking but it's only outside of of the pale of all of our history and tradition is if that's where you find that enlightened. Just like we went through in the 60s, especially in America, so God after after God working on you for period of time and in the prayers of God's people reaching heaven and God dealing with you, convicting you, you experience his presence. You know it's Yeshua how old you at this point I was 16 still 16, what happens to the drugs and and all the other stuff I went away.

But before I try to quit just because of the wanting to be spiritual in the new age term, but it was difficult than all of this one away.

I remember that it just lost all its magic. I basically was looking in the drugs for something that would be so overpowering like an escape.

But when the presence of God came. That was the true overpowering which I did not want I wanted to be overcome because I just love and the piece actually the same night.

I came back from work and debated the same with the same people only debating for Gnostic law and risk management rise born from above born-again new heart, new life transformation and we could. There's a whole detailed story from from then to today, and 13 children later. So how old are your reef on 40 to 42 member how old you are when you had your 10th child when I had my text would eradicate you have probably I was as dirty. I was now 30 or so there's there's a whole history there and in many stories in your six-year-old daughters is here with you tonight. This came from a house of prayer going after the Lord that you ended up coming with your family. If you have any kids. It was then fine to our school in Pensacola and then went from there to work with perhaps the most radical missionary in the field that we knew in Mexico just went there this regular Spanish yes okay so you never you never did that. The easy way this uneventful wholeheartedly but you been back in Israel now now for years you work with sorrow to for a while that you do a lot of work with translating bit but your involved with friends, another grant from our school that are what you call house church movement so Pete's people being saved then discipled in that setting and then multiplying those groups so we come back. I want to talk about what you're seeing what's different in Israel today then say a 25 years ago when you came to faith what's happening in terms of spiritual openness what's happening in terms of people having their faith and in your shoe and and anything happening on the religious among the young people will find out as we talk to your Ricoh, but on the other side of the break. I may take some calls also 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 7884 if you have any Jewish related questions. We will take your calls as well and everybody in the room here gets thinking if you have a Jewish -related question to ask me fixing Jewish related questions on the air today, 8660 this is if you listen on five 7 AM I got a very important announcement we come back don't go anywhere in the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown and will some journey truly come to know the love of God expressed in Yeshua this is Michael Brown coming away live from Jerusalem is looking an article today on the forward. This is liberal Jewish publication in the states and it's with all this may be the oldest Jewish publication, Hebrew, Yiddish, English, and there's a question about Donald Trump speech to Congress was Donald Trump speech his bar mitzvah, moment, meaning his coming-of-age commitment takes a Jewish newspaper to report it like that. Also interestingly interestingly, the page of the Palestinian Authority was shot down on Facebook. Is it will want want to get shut down apparently because it depicted Mark for the boss with with a weapon and this was looked at as potentially violent or inflammatory seen a ton more stuff there, which I point out to Facebook and they said notice violator are standards and guidelines you go the other way.

It is something that's considered offensive Palestinians that that often get blocked with defense of Disraeli's wooden but anyway just to note that for you before I go back to my guest to Reeve Goldman and get an eye witness reported what's happening here in Israel. If you listen on 570 a.m. WMC. It's been our joy to come your weight daily last five years, six years actually starting in March 2011 so it six full years know it's been our joy to do so. In fact, I've actually gone around the country and in preaching and teaching as we raise funds for ministries actually raise funds to be on the air in New York be great if everyone New York cover the cost of the broadcaster that was never the case. So we have sacrificially raise funds for the joy of being on with you in New York, but we will not be broadcasting at this time on WMC eight as of the end of this week to get today. Tomorrow Milligan making a programming change and we may be back. We may be back at different hours, but right now to continue listening to the line of fire and take advantage of all the great programming I WMC a they got great lineups and take advantage of that. Enjoy it, but you don't have to miss a second of W of WMC documents the second of the line of fire. So here's what you do if you normally listen in your car just connect with us on your cell phone right go to the line of fire.org between two and for your time, your time between two and four.

You can listen to the whole show on your cell phone if you have an android phone was still waiting for the Apple app. If an android phone. Just download asked Dr. Brown at JFK DR Brown and you click on their journey to the form foam listen live. You can listen there and you can call in just from there the numbers ready programmed in for you if you listen at home. Just listen at your computer instead your radio right asked Dr. Brown.org you see coming up or light a fire.org see coming up saying listen live between two and four or you can subscribe by podcast, or you can listen later online all free all available to see don't have to miss a single second of our broadcast 8663 for 87884.

Let's go back to your reef here so your Reeve when you came to faith. That was a little over 25 years ago you been out of Israel some but you spent much your time here you've had your own journey. Like everyone else pass through ups and downs and challenges and inducing God's faithfulness through all of it at your your wife has a very interesting history.

How did she get to Israel. She was actually recording what adopted from Brazil and she was four weeks old. During the 80s. There's been like an epidemic of our Brazilian babies being hustled or dealt or kidnapped and not traffic basically and the country. I think that received most babies by far was Israel so she was brought to Israel to a Jewish family and she grew up as an Israeli art, so she is still still searching for her family. Now correct right and you gave it the best case description. She was adopted here.

Basically she was kidnapped from her family.

Basically she was sold. Many meant many many kids had like that say a drunkard on call sell them or some some relative that was unhealthy to them, sell them, but in many other occasions, they were just forcing the they're using different manipulation techniques and the social services that were on payroll by the Mafia or sometimes just flat out kidnapped lead in the suitcase is Landon back trucks in trucks and they had a whole system with breast-feeding moms and in the back of trucks and were smuggled across the border to to Paraguay so through one of those ways she got here.

Yeah. Amazingly, and then she came to faith. Yeah I sink into faith.

About five years ago five years ago right again.

Holger went really at lifetimes of stories are obviously so your Reeve just in short what you say is the biggest difference that you see now in Israel sharing the gospel with the lost compared to when you first came to faith.

I see tremendous difference when I first came to faith.

You'd hunt you'd be really hard-pressed to find anybody who knew what a messianic Jew as you do miss you, Kate, Isaac, what is this you know nobody near the memory.

I can't explain it in Hebron. I am 86 when I was here for yeah so and 91 that situation might've been that there better but it was still very, very, very sketchy and for Army service unit, you'd be very challenged in the Army service in the IDF. They look at you really stranger security level clearance level would've would've drop.

Probably it was very difficult to get decent jobs at the time.

Now things have so turnaround for example myself in the IDF was so weird. My daughter had just took a quick example. She had permission to be sworn in with her Bible which has that's enough to one of them to him and the New Testament told the New Testament yeah yeah and and she gently had at an interrogation by the one of the head rabbis EES and why, what, why don't you get sworn in just with the New Testament. He called her up in the middle of just before getting sworn and high-ranking officer. She almost died and antics and he's like why just get sworn with the New Testament is like now got from it is like why is Michael. That's the basis everything.

This is my life.

The law, the prophets and in the writings. He's like wow I've never met somebody like you and he gave her the permission and not rely to do that amazing and so are things really different in this respect, and most Israelis that I meet will know a night when I see you Dema. She's either going to know what this means now so things are getting a cynic you and and then in in the Arab world the Muslim world.

Some of your colleagues are involved with church planting reaching out there since amazing things on beautiful beautiful yes on the ground grad from from Brown school of ministry. Yeah, I'll be our Sam and their seeing house Houston recent movement in Muslim areas with secret believers, but it's increasing tremendously and I now are hoping to duplicate and replicate the same increase of this. The network inside the Jewish population I friends pray for your reef, pray for others. There so many in Israel reaching out. You can stand with them and you can stand with us as we are on the front lines reaching the Jewish people the gospel some of the most effective tools in Israel to tear as far as to not ruin their people to stand with us become a torch where you become a monthly supporter this week.just a treasure trove back into you as our thank you gifts of gold right now the light a fire donate together. It's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 866343 here again is Dr. Michael Brown and still clear still just something about I know the Jewish people need Jesus need to be saved like anyone else I know the great spiritual strongholds here in Jerusalem. I know that the prophets in throughout the Scriptures have very strong words of rebuke Jerusalem. I think it issue in Matthew 23. Beginning verse 37 recess O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you killed.

Still, the prophets in Cobo sent you how often I wanted to gather together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you weren't willing cases, behold, your house is left you desolate.

And I said you not see me again to Saybrook above Charlotte and I blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord's word of judgment on Jerusalem and yet he says you will see him again to welcome me and in other words, a Jewish true Jerusalem West must welcome the Messiah back so there is history here like no other city in the world. There is a present battle over the city like no other city in the world is the city of greatest controversy of any city in the entire world that everyone wants to divide up a certain way and the city to which Jesus himself will return.

So there is a future here and Isaiah 62 that the prophet is called on by the Lord and the prophet calls out to two.

Set up prayer and and intercessors who will call out to God night and day until God makes Jerusalem the praise of all the earth and Isaiah 62 seven it says that that has not yet happen. You can't just spiritualize and so that means the church it that would've been a completely foreign meaning to the prophet and to the whole context is a fascinating verse work where God says, give yourselves no rest and give meaning the rest are called in Hebrew must create musky rail than I which is literally those who put the Lord in remembrance.

So he loves it.

We go back to him and we remind you because you promised like a little child but that he promised it's written you promised when you going to do it so he says give yourselves no rest. Okay watchmen on the wall.

Give yourselves the rest and give God no rest until he establishes Jerusalem as the praise of all the earth that will not happen.

Through Israel's brilliance that will not happen through military might. That will not happen through the. The beauty of Jewish tradition that will happen when King Messiah returns here and establishes his kingdom here and it is many times as I come to Jerusalem there's something significant and impacting about it, something unique, something unusual, something eternal. I I was praying one time it with his race as though it is the coattail about the wall but this recall the Wailing Wall of the Western Wall and some so what's the big deal, praying, there's just just a piece of real estate. I am stand. I fully understand it, but when there is a history to a place you can feel and when you join your prayers with the prayers of millions of others who cried out there, some in desperation to know God and seeking God. There is just something very very sacred about in our tour group will be getting to Tutu's sacred places the garden of Gethsemane and and and the Mount of olives and and the wall itself and will see outside that would've been ruins of the of the second Temple.

The these little places walk down steps on one side, and the other. These were just that the many baptismal pool supposed ritual immersion in their would've been plentiful pools available. So when Peter preaches and shovel worked that the feast of weeks in the book of acts at Pentecost. The second chapter of accident.

3000 come to faith right is a result of his message. That would been plenty of places to immerse them right there we come back a minute take some questions from our tour group Jewish related questions on this thoroughly Jewish Thursday and if you got a question for you. Recall 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 7884 any Jewish related Israel related Hebrew related question of any kind would love to take your questions do her best to give you solid answers from God that live from the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown Jerusalem will and he shall your key is this man from Galilee friend live from Jerusalem this is Michael Brown fire there we are. We are live here hate very much one thing before we go to the phones 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 784 and feel some questions from our tour group here as well, but if you heard in the first half-hour of the show your Reeve talked about watching Middle East TV as a boy and watching cartoons that had a Christian message in them and watching 700 club will we are about to start broadcasting to shows two Jewish outreach shows a Middle East TV. Nothing like this is ever been done in terms of what's going to be broadcast specifically to reach Jewish people with Hebrew captions. Some of the shows or shows we developed in the past with inspiration network that will now be aired on Middle East TV exclusively for Jewish outreach and others. We are about to start recording early next month. Pray with us believe, God with us for anointing on and be sitting in studio in the states talking directly to Israelis, both secular Orthodox and everybody in between on either side. We also have footage it's already been shot of many Israelis answering questions whether they believe about Messiah what they believe about the upcoming templates to be another temple built what they believe about Yeshua that things like that seen atonement and will be interacting so this is unique opportunity. Basically, if you have a TV cable connection which would be the vast majority of TVs in Israel you get Middle East TV and this is an extraordinary door that the Lord has opened so believe God with us for a supernatural favor and grace and for many Jewish viewers to come to faith and will have ways to get that he really testaments to them. Another thing so that there can be follow-up. So extraordinary unprecedented opportunity right. Let's go to the phones will go to Frank in Richmond, Virginia.

Welcome to the line of fire. But thank you Dr. Brown's in our district. I have a general prophetic question. Rash. When do you expect on the Jews to rebuild the third Temple and the expected timeline or is that unknown diver very precise detailed answers item and reveal it here live from Jerusalem to everyone listening around the world. I have no idea. That's my very precise answer. I don't know that there's any way that we that we can know that Frank certainly Israel was reestablished as a nation in 1948. People recognize the miraculous nature of that there many Christians think of this is it. It's all over everything can change rapidly, certainly within 40 years or saying Jesus will return when Jerusalem was restored to Jewish hands of the Six-Day War 1967. People thought this this is it. This is everything is imminent and and and or maybe 40 years from their wealth. Of course, all these things have gone were about celebrate the 50th anniversary now of the liberation of Jerusalem and still the Messiah has not returned.

And still there's no prospect of building 1/3 Temple that the reason being that that you got the dome of the rock of the two moss. There are lots all oxo mosque and dome of the rock of one primary, one would would be in the location where Sir Temple would have to rebuild some of argue there's another location but basically it's the general consensus and it would take a man it would be a couple of world war cosmic proportions. If there is to be an actual attack on Atmos just a rumor spreading that is really should try to keep Muslims from praying there. Or that someone went in there that was defiled, causes riots, all of the city causes Jewish blood to be shed by by 50-year-old kid that gets worked up about it doesn't kill someone.

The idea the idea that there would actually be a demolishing of that and that attempt would be built.

There is, is completely impossible to conceive. So Joel Richardson has a theory of it, that if the if you have an Islamic antichrist figure that he could broker an arrangement with the juices whilst we Jews even care about a peace process here someone like that but that he would give the dome of the rock, it's okay here. Go ahead and do it. You need to do build your Temple here that's actually a scenario that makes is I can't give you an ounce of Scripture to support that happening or specific Scripture that would point to it so I really don't know that here's the interesting thing in and you're really just get you back over here for second, there there is a group called the Temple Mount faithful. There are people who have built a lot of the. The garments for the for the.the high priests and the Levites. The altered that the sacred utensils to be used in things like that. The innards of the lampstand. Lots of things have been built all of us. It is no is no Ark of the covenant or or 10 Commandments and things like that. Have they been written, recovered or found, but in point of fact, in point of fact, a lot of this is been done, but your Reeve your average Israeli debate that they think about their Temple thing they think about it just because they hear about it on the news coming and it looks like a group of extremists who are actually thinking to actualize that right.

So in other words your Christians you into prophecy actually are more aware of this, that that's how Israelis are fine at his oasis is not even a thought you not not-athon.

It's like sometimes in the future.

Those who do believe in God, we hear that the Messiah will construct the third Temple, but that's like you know pie-in-the-sky for most of them right and for religious Jew it's it will happen when the Messiah comes differently there that one of the things Michelle do is rebuild the temperament that's codified in the in the 12 century by Moses Maimonides and in his exploits at the expiration of what missile do you have scriptural basis for it. Zechariah 6 and other passages that point to Messiah build the temple so there religious Jews who think that Israel shouldn't be occupying the land now as as a state live here with Arabs. That's fine, but they think it's getting in the way of the messianic era because it's up to the Messiah to regather the exiles in and establishes rebuild the temple, so all that.

All that to say Frank that the average Israeli the only reason there thing the third Temple excuse they hear the news because Christians make a big fuss about the prophecy and so on and so forth. But note just ravages really even know of and okay where is this group were they building things. If you're in the old city of Jerusalem where you find them. No idea yet so just just want to give you that that consciousness hear from Israel. So Frank I really have no idea and I honestly I don't think about it.

My eyes are set on that singer think about the wrong voice or but Marcia set on the great commission reaching the nations with the gospel regionally Jewish people with the gospel scene issue return. That's what Myers was set on and if the if if there will be 1/3 Temple and it seems there will be one that will be destroyed at the end or part of it, an attack on Jerusalem with you and it seems there will be is Matthew 24 has application to to the generation after Jesus and to the end of the age.

As I understand it. Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 that. So, all the discourse and then second Thessalonians 2 seems to point to a Temple that this antichrist figure will set him up in the set himself up in the temple of God claiming to be God seems there will be future Temple. Others interpret those verses differently and nothing that I get to be dogmatic about all right, let me answer answer this question for tour group from Kelly from Iowa and hotel.

I saw a sign that read this establishment violates the Sabbath. Why is this a preadmission to prospective customers know not how this is somebody who's trying to hurt the business of this hotel and for example the hotel that were staying in Jerusalem as is common in hotels all over Israel has what's called a Shabbat elevator Sabbath elevator and listen. If you're not used to this.

If you're in a big hotel like 24 through 25 floors or something like that and it's Shabazz was from Friday night through Saturday said that at sundown I checked just when Tahir don't get on the Sabbath elevator because it stops on every floor so your ear can it be if you're on if you're on for 23 years on May 23 stops because according to Jewish tradition. You can't operate that so that the pushing of the button is doing work she can beyond it. You can do the ride but you can't push the button and what you can know some would do so because you can ask a Gentile to do for you what would you can't do on the Sabbath, but you can figure out a creative way to get them to do it. You know you're at it in those if they know what's going on and it out.

They know that that you can push the button. You could say it have seven floors very interesting for to see if they think it is a cancer would you press the seventh or so. Anyway, the Shabbat elevator stops at every floor of but this is a warning.

Probably something to do with with food. Maybe they have nonkosher food there. One hotel was threatened to release all their business weddings and all the big business that we do through that the rabbis will revoke their license because they hosted a conference with messianic Jews and and that got really ugly.

There were protests outside people holding signs saying Hitler, one of our bodies.

You want our souls. There is some extremist that that slice the that the tires on the Boston. This is years back in the hotel was we had to go from one hotel. There were different is the first one caved under the pressure which I can understand what you want conference and lose your business for the rest of the year so this is some kind of warning of this is either. Again, I haven't seen it, see the official statement from Rabbi's letter back saying they violate the Sabbath or knows about that. That's why there is not the hotel.

Zimbabwe is well-worn, violate the Sabbath.

The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown of the sound of live clapping and voices usually full of enthusiasm.

Just amazing to be here. I really take some Jewish related questions from our tour group here so your first amendment discovery could question everyone said it's a good question, but the good ones better be a good question. It's a good one are very good.

I'm hoping the stump you okay so my name is Paul from Minneapolis, Minnesota MI question Dr. Brown is in Revelation 753 there is a unique listing of the 12 tribes of Judah that are sealed with the seal of God on their forehead and there's a lot of unique things about this listing but I'm particularly want to focus on two things. The tribe of Dan isn't mentioned and instead of freedom, which received the right-hand blessing from Jacob Manna say is mentioned and I was just curious is, do you have any ideas as to why that is.

I've never really have research I've never really found a satisfactory answer why Dan's missing and why it's Manas. Instead of entering yet actually it is a good question and it's if you stop me used of the whole bunch of others as well. I've never seen anything that was really clear and satisfactory either.

Some try to argue that the tribe of Dan is not listed there because of if you go back in history book of Judges certain sin that was committed by the tribe of Dan and the severity of that and so on.

As so so but but I just don't see a substantial basis for that and let me say a few things.

It seemed clear in the seventh chapter you you have this vision of 12,000 sealed from the 12 tribes right the most bizarre and the most impossible, most ridiculous explanation is that that's the Jehovah's Witnesses is the hundred 44,000 sealed so we toss that up another view is that symbolic of the whole church because the church is the new Israel and its 12,000 retry the fullness of the church. I don't see that and in any way I see the church represented as a whole.

When you get to verse nine after this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one can ever for every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages stand before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes of palm branches in their hands that to be is the fullness of the Gentiles, so I see Revelation 7 is symbolic of the fullness of Israel salvation as in Romans 1125 and 26, and the fullness of the Gentiles as well.

Both represented here symbolically and spiritually so so 12�12 meeting that fullness of of Israel coming in but but again why Dan is missing. I've not heard an acceptable answer to that by either of the symbolisms is clear that some say this is 144,000 Jews who get saved in court the great tribulation and I understand that the teaching there.

II don't see it that way I see it symbolic of the salvation of the Jewish people's all culminating with the fullness of Israel.

The other thing here insert so you have again the tribes listed. You have a roof. Thank God Asher enough to leave Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Issachar and Zebulun and tribe of Joseph from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed so the other abnormality is Joseph is one of the 12 sons right, but normally he gets a displaced by his two sons and from Manasseh right and then they take the place of Levi not having a portion in Israel so so hence Joseph gets to write.

So what you have Joseph and Manasseh, that's a little easier to answer only only in that we know and later Jewish literature that after I am basically equals Joseph that when the target restoration with F. Ryan that that equals Joseph and and out for it.

For example, you have a tradition that developed tumor size and assessment of David, the Messiah, son of Joseph and and he's also called the rabbinic literature F rhyme so for whatever reason F rhyme board.

Manasseh gets associated Joseph. That's an easy one about why you have them listed focus. Which of Levi in and the two sons of Joseph. Now you're you're missing so it II haven't been satisfied with an answer either.

And maybe someone will come up with it. Maybe you can devote your life to figuring that out, you know, but just don't know just just don't know that there's a good answer to it. Now of course the the critical answer would be.

John made a mistake. Now that would be a logical answer, but it's actually illogical because these books 1st match is written in a day.

He just sat down and wrote it out and you hit a button sent online and never sought again so these written on the appearance of years and you have time to correct errors. That's one thing.

The second thing is you have editors who are now maybe rearranging the text in order for the prophetic books of the oracles in a certain order or at the least, there Yep scribes were copying right even if if John wrote it in its final form from beginning to end. Yep, scribes copying and and scribes even though they recognize this is sacred text. It's very likely that if they cease, and it seems like an obvious error.

For example, I was reading something today and I sent it to to the website is a friend of mine is the editor there I said hey you got somebody else's article but mention so-and-so as ambassador to India to Japan. Japanese names like he's invested at your panic is wall they big error on this news website.

What you immediately fix it because it's so glaring you know if if I said you're you're Paul from Minneapolis Mexico it's acknowledgment Minneapolis, Minnesota.

There's so it gets corrected. So this actually there's it a tradition not a tradition part of the science of what's called textual criticism. We try to discover what's the original reading what's the more accurate reading that there's a Latin phrase: let's let you differ chillier, which is that the, the more difficult reading is to be preferred that if you have some that just why would you have Minneapolis, Mexico, who would know what would've made that mistake afterwards. So was that the original so unless you have a reason to not accept the more difficult reading. You go with it. In a case like this seemed to be the original because it's it's not the kind of error. You would make, and that nobody else would catch as we all catch you reading like what happened there, so don't know but it in that you stumped all Revelation commentaries and ever written a counter revelation and like I said, I haven't seen an answer that satisfied. That being said, actually disinfect your walk with God at all because it doesn't affect a single thing we do in obedience to God so flows at the pub was perfect. Yep, there's a lot we don't kill children of your life. Hi, thanks, could question it like friends living creature again this week. Join us during our support team by God's grace were on the front lines of bearing much fruit in Israel and among the Jewish people and it's amazing to run to folks around the world and find out people that have come to faith through outreach. We truly don't get a major debate coming up with a rabbi later this month in March and some major video debates were going to be going on with rabbis as well. By God's grace from the frontline seeking to make a difference, but it's a team effort. We don't do anything on our own. We are folks who pray with us and for us to folks who serve in so many ways. Just like a broadcast is a team effort. You hear my voice without the team, it wouldn't happen so partner together with us join our support to become a torchbearer beside a dollar a day or more per month on a dime goes into my pocket or staff. It's 100% to fund this gospel work so the modifier double click on donate but specially we put something together because I'm in Israel where we've gotten some great Jewish resources for you.

Some of the top resources all in a package with hardcover book that you can purchase otherwise and with the with the video and audio. So take advantage of that at the line of fire.Lord bless you and remember pray for peace and so my bottom line today. Don't let up. God establishes Jerusalem praise of all the your missed today's thoroughly Jewish Thursday broadcast live from Jerusalem. It's time for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown Michael Gartner and having great time and are folks tour through the day, every day, seeing sites and experiencing things that what's it's it's hard to describe you, what, when the when the tour starts and Scott are talking about the schedule of will be thinking to myself, okay, you want people to get in every last thing they can see in you. Hope it's enough in a few days and you thickness every trip deserves total overload in terms of what you take and process it for weeks and months and and years thereafter, 866-34-TRUTH. If you have a Jewish related question for me. Friends there is a spirit of of radical Islam. It it is directly tied in with terrorism it draws from the most violent possible interpretation of the Koran and Islamic history. And it really is demonic and that it is is full of death and is full of destruction and their their is an attitude of extreme hostility to non-Muslims extreme hostility to Muslims of other persuasions extreme hostility in particular to Christians and to Jews and I'm looking at an article on Jihad watch God or if you've never been there.

It's it's disturbing reading and its accurate reporting of from Pakistan. Muslims hail the UK G hard murder of blasphemer as hero severe's report about Robert Spencer from yesterday on Monday evening about 400 gathered outside his family's home in the city of Mayor for Pakistan administered Kashmir for rally in his honor. The crowd chanted slogans praising off meant as brave and courageous. So what what are they talking about.

This is a man in England and he killed the man who was quote a blasphemer and sets a minimum of 27 years in jail for murder.

The judge city committee could a brutal, barbaric and horrific crime he staff to guess the Glasco shopkeeper Austin Shaw who belong to the persecuted osmotic sect because he believed he was committing blasphemy by uploading online videos in which you claim to be a prophet while in any in any case, this man kills him, and you have a rally in his honor, his family's home, 400, praising him as brave and courageous friends. This is the mentality of radical Islam is blind, it is destructive, it is deadly many to pray for the opening of eyes, not not just of secular Muslims and liberal Muslims but pray for the opening of eyes of radical Muslims there. There are there are friends of Muslims.

There are terrorists that these people come to faith God does work. And yes where there's were crimes to be committed. There must be justice. This is this is important. This is essential, but hear me God is working even among radical Muslim so pray. I believe that God will turn hearts. This is something that's on your mind and Israel.

You know, Israel doesn't just talk about security in an abstract way. When you talk about Iran's nuclear weapons determent radical Islam and Israel about an excess and still an existential threat to the nation, people will wipe Jews off the map, or at least white Jews in Israel off the map and wipe Israel off the map and Palestinian textbooks that don't even show Israel as existing in their textbooks as we kids are raised with from the earliest days their victims to their victims of this hateful ideology.

So pray as you pray for Israel.

Pray for the Jewish people.

Pray also for God to move powerfully in the midst the Muslim world right will be taking your questions, 866-3487 84. Take some questions here from our group and I'm supposed to do a special interview with a fascinating. Joseph given life] live from his learning plan and it's the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown in particular live from Jerusalem. Night night. My guest is just walking just minutes to talk hustled over here and I can't wait to introduce you to him and him to you just quickly. There's a question from Larry in Dayton, Ohio as to whether the priest wore a rope when he entered on Q4 into the holiest place of all because he admitted the instructions God gives to Moses and Aaron don't do this, lest you die. And we know that there were bells would ring and you'd know if the guys a lot because of still moving and breathing, but Jewish tradition and there's a Jewish website ACE.com that addresses this.

It says that the second Temple.

Some people who were unfit took the position of high priest went into the holy of holies in Yom Kippur they died. Since they lack the ability to handle the spiritual power that place, that the priest had to devise a plan to pull the dead body out since no one other than the high priest was allowed to enter in the holy holy city taught a golden rope to the high priest leg when he entered the holy of holies.

Yom Kippur sets according to Jewish tradition with the Bible would remind us of regrets. Leviticus 16 which talks about the. The requirements on on Yom Kippur day of atonement is that the high priest doesn't just go in there anytime and and there's even referenced it to drinking about that and and some speculate that Aaron's oldest son is not often be who actually got drunk. Hence, authored offered up unauthorized incense before the Lord. Hence their death. Leviticus 10 and that's why it's mentioned there in Leviticus 16, so live in Dayton Ohio appreciate the question. Bottom line is bottom line is that it was sacred sacred work, and hence this tradition arising hey it's a great joy to have with me for the first time on the line of fire. A man with a very interesting background and life calling. He is David the Creekmont and is the Executive Director of the CJC you see which is the center for Jewish Christian understanding and cooperation. Hey David, need to hold the mic right up there. Thanks so much for joining us tonight out where you live in Israel, David.

I live in the Tanya Tanya all right and where. Where have you studied over the years there any any place that might be known to our listeners so currently it's my last semester at Oral Roberts University taking a Masters in Christian theology. On the first Orthodox Jew to be accepted into a spirit filled University College. The purpose of it is to find the bridge to help Jews and Christians communicate better answer. My thesis is on the Hebraic roots of the Holy Spirit from a Jewish point of view, son. I'm in the midst of doing that. So were examining Deuteronomy chapter 31 verses 18 through 19th in the fulfillment of that in the bill in the Bible to the book of Esther. So the concept of God's hidden this and accessing the Holy Spirit in God's hidden state. How do you do that so happens to be less than two weeks will be celebrating perm anyway and the sacred holidays of the Jewish calendar so that is an opportune time to anyway to finish off my thesis all right amazing. So as an Orthodox Jew, it not as a believer in Jesus the Messiah. So you been warmly accepted. There yes hundred percent is been a fantastic experience for me again as the other. The first Orthodox Jew to be there, but I also wanted pay tributes for people who made that happen because it's a big I think courageous step on their part for allowing a modern-day Pharisee like me to come into the insides of of the evangelical movement and the Pentecostal movement specifically so credit to like former president Dr. Margaret Lin and currently one major professors.

They are Dr. Brad Young. Young and Brad's written great books on the Jewishness of Jesus. The parable stated David Fisher correct things like that so he would have a heart to do it so it's not that they would like to do some threat, but there are supposed to be a believer in Jesus to be there and and you're not yet they've open the door wide and I'm sure it's been a great learning transfer. I'm sure people learned by spending time with you when interacting with you corrects. I've been on campus as part of the requirement of me intending that we have the interactions and it's been very helpful.

By having healthy discussions. I don't believe in debate I always I always say to Christians I know you believe in Jesus divine Savior.

This is a given for you.

Just understand that the something I don't necessarily adhere to. But what the commonality between Judy is a Christian you have need to be developed because for almost 2000 years we've been pretty much enemies, and I think the first time with a recent history that we can actually sit down and have a healthy discussion on the things of kingdom and holiness which is both of us are mandated by God to do some that can change a Christian. I don't want change a Christian. That's not the intent of the center. It's really to explore from a lease, an Orthodox Jewish perspective and how we can interface with Christians and make the world better under the concept of the kingdom of God and and also your your helping persecuted Christians want to talk about that and I want to but the origin of of the Center for Jewish and Christian understanding and cooperation. But but first educate with the Holy Spirit years back when I was just doing research on on Holy Spirit in second Temple Judaism and in the rabbinic literature that follow-up not expert on it and focus intensely when I found very interesting was there was a lot of personifying of the Holy Spirit.

This type of stuff. You might've expected to find a New Testament literature but but the Holy Spirit in on in the New Testament Greek is that the broccoli cost with you yet you have the Greek comes into an automatic language as well and you have similar concepts but but the Holy Spirit could be interceding the Holy Spirit could be speaking in at and acting even though those groups I can see this. If 1/3 person of the Trinity in in second Temple Judaism, and although it was believe the spirit was on the sages to reduce what roof was it, as opposed to being no profits in that sense, there's gonna be a lot of overlap discovery lot when you read New Testament is this a first century Jewish document and then your reading some of their developing Jewish thought at that time and the traditions that have been passed on. This got me a lot dislike while this is very similar. So we have our differences rubberstamp at the scapula similarity right so again many Christians with the mainstream Christianity will believe father-son Holy Spirit could quickly turn out as far as the dynamic of the mystery of the Trinity. I was the Jews don't have a Trinitarian understanding of that think the commonality that you'll find actually is a lot of the language used within the lease. The Pentecostal charismatic movements on how they say God is moving them in this direction. Orthodox Jews will actually say the same thing. Actually, we have our own Jewish ease way of speaking with one another will use such petite divine providence or something with him. He is moving my move to Israel would be a move of God within me and the communication device of God speaking to us personally is through the salt, which is something that both Judaism and Christianity. Christianity share as far as how wears where the communication really coming from. So I think those are the commonalities.

I also you also see that you, for me, the state of Israel couldn't be what it is today without a move of the Holy Spirit and the remnant within Christianity, supporting Israel and the Jewish people can happen without a move of the Holy Spirit got it and and how would you define the should he not not listen because I didn't come from an Orthodox home. As you know I was not familiar with many of the rabbinic concepts until once it was a believer in Jesus and then began to to study a literature that I would've learned growing up in Orthodox home so I heard about this thing in the church, the Shekinah glory and in a rabbi's of the subpoena. I thought he not that doesn't Shekinah that something really good. Should he not with that so I realize it was a Jewish term that it can't come to Christianity's a lot of their Pentecostal charismatics is the Shekinah glory but should he not it's not that's not in the in the Bible. It's it's in rabbinic literature, you have the concept of God dwelling with us. For example, Exodus 25 God says to Moses of us to the McDonald's Fisher hunting for to come have the make for me a holy place and I'll dwell in their midst dwell in them not. It's actually that caused the doesn't care about the so much the tabernacle itself that's more for us guys more interest and have a relationship with us. You're right that she now has more of it in the rabbinic literature than it is in in the Bible itself. The foundations are in Scripture. The foundations of the artist of the shipping for us. So I would say this when the Jews went into exile after the destruction of the second Temple. The machine I went with us yet into exile and it takes the form so we say that the rococo � the Holy Spirit is the voice of the dove, and when it's manifested in handedness such as the destruction of the temple was we were in exile. It takes the form of wings of a dove. So God is with us.

Trying to protect us of what's going to happen in the future and and what's interesting about this is that you learn a lot of this through the book of Esther. It's because we believe the book of Esther was written by the Holy Spirit and actually there's a whole timely discussion of seven verses to prove the that the Holy Spirit was making this book happen even though it doesn't have the name of God and what's interesting is in Christianity. This book was trying to push out from the canon and always made its way back in and the second most quoted verse within Christian Zionism is a time such as this, next to the Genesis 23 I will bless them. Esther 414 master for forking for me that as a Jew observing this whole miraculous voting book that was supposed to be out of the right guy for me is my observation I a lot more come you don't want to miss a word of it. I will file the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the minor fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown right live from Jerusalem. This is Michael Brown all right okay I'm with David and Creekmont from the Center for Jewish Christian understanding and cooperation not here to debate issues but to to get David's viewpoint, find out what they are doing but not more. Go to CJ CUC.com that CJ CUC.calm David the book of Esther unique and unusual book again does not mention the name of God among manuscripts parts of of the Bible that he prescriptions from a commodities growth is not found there summative excluded from the canon, but does play very sacred role in in the life of the synagogue in the church and is the foundation for the holiday of Purim. There's an interesting title for God. In Judaism, comb the place was. I have to do with the book of Esther, while that's an interesting question. I wasn't expecting that one so I actually have to deal with that because a Macomb usually is used when we are trying to comfort somebody who blessed Loveland and we say when someone is passed, we say that person is with with God and to communicate how much can you not him correct that now you should be comfort among the mourners of Zion and the name for God is, come, so I actually have to explore that name. I had said I don't know we have to go I guess how I sat I thought I was setting up for when ignited. No, now I know the eggs. Esther 414 okay right all right this is this is that the subtle reference where if you don't act than helpful coming Macomb affair from another place right and this is the last that's economically where we got Macomb from is a divine correct isolation will come from a different place your eye and that's inferred to mean that God will go ahead and say the Jewish people from a different way, but I haven't studied the word Joya enough to make a an educated and responds to what you're asking and I don't and I don't lines try to go ahead and notice okay.

Try to do this without thinking homage. I am the author is playing right into not know your finding your fine I'm just now again we we just I just came from a German Christians that came to Israel and so just dealt with the speech and then and then I was helping out with pastor Stephen Corey and my my best friends whose has a an evangelical ministry hears about the costal and were trying to help the persecuted Christian community in Israel so my head is not into another role rabbinic literature on the Macomb sites will be honest with you site. I have to say I don't know. To be continued. I regret regret on that and let me just say this if you say wow all these Orthodox Jews in a `nominal David is been immersed in the Christian world as an Orthodox Jew, so he's much more familiar with terminology. He's much more familiar with what Christians believe he has.

He has much more sensitivity to what's happened in history and and helping to build a bridge. Your average Orthodox Jew special living in Israel. Verse next you would not know what what what a Pentecostal was little about the costal or anything like that. So David is much more in the know this because of the circles in which he travels. But let's talk about Stephen Corey for a moment, but he's he's been on my show. He is a courageous Arab believers of Palestinian Christian believer.

He and his father have been persecuted for the faith once I get to do your urine Orthodox to what was I got to do with you. You have enough problems. Jews are under enough attack. There is no hostility towards us around the world.

What you have to bother with with helping for someone else who has their own problems. So I always get this question and not my answer is I really honest in your question. Covenant land comes with cover responsibility.

It's my mandate that I am giving a gift from God to be a steward for his land and that comes with a lot of responsibility, including those who are indigenous to the land before statehood. Christians have a presence here since early Christianity started Christian Arabs and out.

I know some people can't balance Christian and Eric together, but that is a fact there are Christian Arabs out there.

There miss understood their part of different denominations, most of them a part of the Greek Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church.

It's not easy being Christian in the Palestinian control, territory, nor is it easy to grow Christian within a Jewish state. So here we are, for the first time, Jews are ruling are reborn in their state. We are Jewish nation we have 20% 20% of our population are not Jews and they have within that small minority of Christians about 150,000 Christian Arabs live in the state of Israel.

They are probably the most marginalized or their needs are not really on the radar screen for for for all the Israelis and I know what it means to grow up as a minority is a Jew in the United States.

So I would have to say a lot of this is influence from my upbringing.

I would have to even say that Catholic nuns help my grandfather when I never met my grandfather passed away when my father was 18, but it was the it was Catholic charities who was there at the end of his life.

So for Christians to go ahead and reach out to Matt, this is pre-Vatican II to reach out to to help out my tablet, my grandfather. To me this is all part of who were supposed to be as what is a city of kingdom and holiness. So if Christian community needs help.

It's my mandate to help them becomes its covenant, pure and simple as that. It's and it's more than take an old does not Peace Corps.

This is comes down to if I believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that comes responsibility and part of that is you should not oppress the lever stranger in the land and you have to love the stranger in the land. The stranger doesn't mean my own people means the other, and since were Center for Jewish Christian understanding my specific mandate and calling in life is Jewish Christian relations so I can do great with the Western church that visits Israel. I go out around the world and they talk about the importance of this relationship, but I don't do anything at home then I'm a hypocrite. So I have to find those Christians willing to work with us and pastor Stephen Corey literally is a courageous man of faith, he sacrificed so much and for him to have a relationship with me I think is is more profound because the worst thing for me is a bad PR day but the worst thing for him is actually little physical harm you and sell it.

He made me a better Jew. Throughout this process because of what he's done for his community. So I feel this is simply what I'm supposed to do because God sent have to do this.

That's why don't understand. Sometimes the question will get on. I'm glad you understand it, which is which is wonderful and again there are there are perceptions on the one hand, and along with that there are there are other Israelis that may not have the same insight that you have because there's just enough trouble and and there there many thinking Arab is Muslim and and and maybe radical Muslim or hostile so they that's why be easy to overlook the hundred 50,000 Christian Arabs yeah icing on top of that you mentioned something about me certain immersed with in this world of Jewish Christian relations and for 17 years I've been trying to build up relationships but we as Jews tend to think of Christians as medieval Catholics and we really don't understand the diversity within Christianity and really understand that a lot of of support for for Israel comes within. I would say the spirit filled move a movement that crosses denominational lines and that to me as a fat is fastening but most Jews won't understand what a spirit filled movement is so because we like we like prepackaged Christianity to deal with that. The other day and I know that you believe that the.net and that and what I've learned over the 17 years is you have to take the person of where they're at right now in their journey and what they're calling for the support and learning is taking years to serve the flesh that same thing with me and I first started out I didn't know anything.

Just wanted to have a sincere relationship. I more to come alive from Jerusalem.

It's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 866343 here again is Dr. Michael Brown and look at what fire five from her current group in full throat here and I'm also joined by Dave Gutmann. He is an Orthodox Jew he's finishing up his PhD work. It alters has their own masters Masters. I promoted your hand, there are I would love if you get me the doctor right is his master's degree at Oral Roberts University as an Orthodox Jew is part of his role as working in the Center for Jewish Christian understanding and cooperation.

Notice it doesn't say the Center for Jewish Christian conversion confrontation, but the Center for Jewish Christian understanding and cooperation. Listen we each live in our own particular worlds which have particular missions. David knows of the many debates with rabbis and interactive and reverent wherever I can build a bridge to a fellow Jew. We can understand each other better and work together for the common good of the synagogue of the church, the people of Israel and Christians will do in a heartbeat with with great joy sought love to have debates and discuss issues and I love to be friends with my fellow Jews and and and and for David. I really appreciate was doing, because look, there is not some secret ulterior motive here.

Just like having him on the air have no secret ulterior motive, he is no secret ulterior motive. We try to get Christians to be anything but Christians wants to be better Christians by better understanding Jewish roots Jewish foundations and and let Christians pray for Jewish people to do but understand better have have have a way to cooperate work together.

So it's not just abstract kind of a sentimental love.

So David tell me about the origins of the CJ CUC so my it comes with two journeys that are working in parallel. Up until 2007. So for me, my personal testimony begins in the Israeli consulate in New York where I was serving as a media and community relations person I am and I was able to put my boss who spoke Spanish. The Debbie Consul Gen. yes he live net on Telemundo television.

A pastor from Bay Ridge Christian center in Brooklyn New York so my boss had a calling from God. In early 2001 to do a night to celebrate Israel in Spanish and then at the last moment an hour before Shabbat, I get a call from my boss saying he can't do it. Can I go and do it instead of and this was a very it was it was a dilemma for me for one moment St. do I hear to my religious upbringing and not going into a church from a very strict religious interpretation of the law or do I value my job so I confess that I value my job. That particular moment and I said yes and then the guilty feelings descend upon my shoulders from heaven, and while nice Jewish boy like me needs of legal loophole one 100 call Rabbi and then I call my puppet Rabbi. I asked him for the dispensation to go the church. He gave it to me saying this and were in a war right now. This begins in the Israeli Palestine conflict commanding officer told you to go. No questions asked. I said thank you and and again I go back I think of Christians as medieval Catholics. Sr. act two stained-glass windows Jesus on the big giant across monks whatever whatever they're doing and some type of pulled the back because you like the Don. I just am totally na�ve about anything of Christianity, and I'm afraid to walk in. I'm thinking something is going to happen here, but when I do walk and it's just a pleasant surprise of hundreds of Spanish-speaking people waving Israeli flags and singing Israeli songs and I'm like I'm in the twilight zone is a twilight zone moment. Unlike who are you where to come from as so whatever happened that particular Friday evening, speaking to the to the church Monday morning comes around, and the investor called me to his office and says you and are in charge of Christian affairs sound Christian these terms, I need to pray about and Jewish terms are willing to think about this and was lagging up because I went to a church service in Chris on the talking religious Jew in the Israeli consulate does make me the expert in Christianity affects my Rabbi's position.

I said yes to me for the last 25 years. What will hear on the other side of the break. All yeah and I know you're not going anywhere number by the Expo line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown Jerusalem. I'm sitting here with David on the fascinating origins of the Center for Jewish Christian understanding, cooperation go to CJ CUC.com CJ CUC.com to find out more right so David your tell us about you, thrust into this journey providentially and now what happens so my Rabbi reveals to me that he was involved in Jewish Christian relations for the last 25 years more in the Jewish Catholic relationship than within the evangelical one, and he lays out this vision for me saying that Jews and Christians believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

We have a common Scripture that we believe is the word of God. We are supposed to be his active agents to bring the kingdom of heaven down to them were all waiting for this messianic moment together. Yes, there are differences between Judaism and Christianity, but what what what the commonalities we have between one another out far outweighs what divides us and he also said to me if you're going to be a leader within the sacred calling, you must be led by him by that voice and spent taking into very uncomfortable situations that you're not used to from your yeshiva background. I come from a very strict yeshiva background and so I just said yes and I said, I do have no idea what you're talking about the deer in headlights. But I'll learn my street theology as we go along with this. I go back to my boss and I said I'll do this in three conditions number one. I need to learn by Christianity because I think it's dishonest to enter into relationship without knowing who you are okay. Number two idem parrot everything my Rabbi said about the vision of how to do this on faith as opposed to a medium moment to get Israel story into the Christian media and number three in the my Rabbi aboard and he agreed on the condition that I write a white paper and on every single denomination within Christianity.

The pelagic political and theological stance on Israel had six months to complete this with a strategy ties I told you before, since I thought you were a Catholic, I thought this is going to be an easy easy thing to do but then he served. Learn the history of Christianity and learn that thereabouts over 30,000 different movements within Christianity. You have your Presbyterians your Episcopalians your Lutherans your Methodist and then somehow you have the southern Baptist Southern Baptist, but the northern Baptist.

The hundred 50 independent backups, movements, and then you and within the spirit filled movement you have Calvary Chapel assemblies of God and foursquare and I'm like wow this is using and I thought Jews had problem with running out of time. Say, but this was very hot yeah how do you explain this to Israelis that I don't have a clue about it and until you figure out certain common denominators you can look for the confusion is there it is right so at the beginning. I honestly wanted to work with the Catholics because they were at that time 35 years of official dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Jewish people.

Plus you had Vatican Israel relations and people are appointed to these positions and Jews love a spokesperson if I can go to you and you can represent everyone. I want you I and you find out really quickly. If you're not working within the organized religious world that you have to develop this relationship, one pastor at a time and at that particular time I did go with the Catholics because of a fortunately the sex scandal abuse that was happening that particular point in time, budget cuts and Israel's not not on the radar screen and then you have the mainline Protestant movements at organizationally beginning the BDS boycott, divestment, and sanctions movement and from a government perspective that's not an equal symmetry and then I heard about nondenominational Christians or spirit filled Christians in and did not and and and mainstream movements willing to stand with Israel but just didn't know who I'm supposed to speak to because I'm looking for that spokesperson and then I actually have a coffee table book Billy Graham investor to God like you guys have been passive to say this is how you want to buy. Having event and maybe I should speak to him and actually this is when the voice of God pops up again and says you need to go back to the church who originally invited you and I said okay so this is your Seinfeld moment we meet in Mindy's restaurant in Grand Central Station over some good deli and I went to conquer Jewish Christian relations. In this moment. That's how na�ve I was so sit down and we talk about the concept of a Christian prayer service for the peace of Israel inside the Israeli consulate since that's the state of Israel with an New York and in March 2002 we have the first day of prayer for the peace of Jerusalem, which eventually became the International Day of prayer for the peace of Jerusalem with Robert Stearns and Jack Hayford on the first Sunday of every October.

So that came out from my office through yeah and the first Christian Tetley birthright program, Israel experience was a road trip from Rev. Thomas Trask office, former superintendent of a VG commission, right, and then making our way to Mike Bickel before that, and before the new facility will settle in the old wheel the house yeah International House of prayer, which I didn't know I thought was the international House of pancakes at a high hat was better-known ion is that enough so you have an approximate pray for Israel for years right in the end this this 24 hour service of prayer currently happening again.

This is all new, and so on. This road trip with my Rabbi, and Robert Stearns and myself we we come up with the idea of the of the Israel experience in their other other things that have happened within watchmen on the wall program so and so and so forth. I've been very fortunate serving a greater vision than I than me for the advancement of Jewish Christian relations, but I wanted to make Allea and I do that in 2005 with my family never think it would go back to this now. At the same time rubbish, risking his chief rabbi Riverfront is going through his Christian experience. It began with the sisters of Mary from Darmstadt, Germany to Bessler Schlink of cash Esther Marianne Sr. Mary 40 nuns and Lutheran habits come to the front in 2002, to comfort the city because no one was coming to Israel tourism was down I think was 85% and no one was visiting any place in Judea and Samaria and hear these 40 nuns coming off in a yeshiva campus singing knock on the national and the comfort you, my people comforting the people in them more more Christians start to visit and from rev.

A risk his point of view he's experienced this unusual Christian the standing with Israel and he starts to have his transformation and then in 2007, the Ben-Gurion airport risking nine meet to begin talking about creating the first Orthodox Church center to religiously and spiritually advance our connection with one another. Unlike some or other Orthodox Jewish organizations that only go ahead and interact with Christians on a social justice issue or a common educational issue.

For example school vouchers in America right so the architectures community is in tandem with the Christian community of having charter schools and having tax dollars pay for your religious education but I want this is beyond that, this is a spiritual connection survivor risking which we were called to serve the Billy Graham of Judaism because he's that type of person is able to cross denominational lines within Judaism has done so much for world jury and for the state of Israel reestablish the city of a front 35 years ago and he had left left being left synagogue right in Manhattan. He started losing his our synagogue there is to be 54 days in his apartment and then became thousands of people became members of the Lincoln Sq., Synagogue and he didn't always have a great experience with Christians. There was a time when he was involved in some jerk mainstream Jewish Christian relational dialogue during the Yom Kippur war 1973, and a priest said to him, maybe it's time for the Jewish state to finally be estimated and that actually gave him a negative attitude to actually never come back into this again and it took the sisters of Mary from Dom sub journey to change this transformation for him and 2007. Both of our worlds collide when we meet a Ben-Gurion airport.

Amazing. And you know I spent time with the sisters of Mary date. They had a base near Phoenix. Sometimes when I speak out there that would be the place ready accommodated that guestrooms and simmer for for America, but some are from Germany and was hard to find more saintly human beings on the planet and they they it's like every day they carried the pain of of what German Germany had done to the Jewish people and whenever I would speak with similar German sisters would come up. I would appreciate a church to simply speak on anti-Semitism to admit that I was the only message and it was. And of course sister, Bess, Leah, who is in a dark car.

Schlink was a courageous voice during the Holocaust and and subsequently said if we had just spoken up of weird running the church posted something on Kristallnacht in November 9, 1938.

Things look different just the pain and agony of it.

I thought I quoted one of my books desisted. Most Jews have never heard that voice but to me, I came to faith. All I ever met with Christians with tremendous love for Israel.

The Jewish people and and that believe God protected Israel in his hand was on the Jewish people and to find out about anti-Semitism in church history which was so prevalent was such a shock as I never run into it. I'd I'd never seen and I've traveled the world, the most outline showing when placing pray for so something is happening.

This gentleman had seized on the market way friends and go to CJ CUC.com. Find out more. This is a one-of-a-kind place the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I live from Jerusalem delayed reaction there and yeah but it was it was fervent that will be when we got it. According according to campus reform Georgetown University criticizing sure Rhea is hate speech that, while not not not not just taking issue with with radical Islamic criticizing sure Rhea is hate speech and a look at another headline Hezbollah threatens to attack Israel's nuclear reactors reported on the tower.org Israel this with this, day and night. Israel is with the reality of radical Islam here, here person University save if you criticize sure Rhea which has certainly aspects of radical Islam in it that's hate speech. All right Brent I hope you enjoyed the interview with my Orthodox Jewish friend David recruit mom and again. Our purpose was not to target doctrine or to try to persuade them of what we believe it but to talk as me is a mess and if you him as an Orthodox Jew about some of these areas of commonality and common concern and I commend Rabbi risking and David recruit mom for doing what to do. Again, it is it is what scissors is no ulterior motive there. I asked for change gears for a moment, all one other one other little when I was a little deuce. I have muzzle here at first a lot of fights, it's two weeks old, but perhaps you haven't heard it.

I've been here until today either of the some of the churches they call themselves LGBT inclusive as the length season comes and as people will be marked with Ash Wednesday wherever they're going to be mixing glitter into the ash K from the churches anyway so what's he got there anything nothing really just wanted to mention it to you.

Okay, last night you heard from one of the that the folks on our tour group, an 80-year-old woman full of life energies you'd never believe she's 80 talking to Erin Spencer the tour with her, but she talked about at the age of 72 that godly not hard to start writing children's books. She was told that you try to write previously skirt and right strikes terrible and here you can't use these books 1st 1/55,000 in print in little kids love in these books written three books so far and she just wanted to tell everyone hate do something dark and usually whoever you are gawking you should so know the Internet is a big place and there are tons of folks online that reach lots of people that I don't I don't know at all and it so happened that that we have another interesting guest with us at Roberta that was with us less that we know for years and we watched her on this journey were shockingly sisters running these children's books so we got a strong presence on Facebook like 520,000 something a Facebook followers YouTube were regrowing. We knew there were getting up to maybe 30,000 but turns out a young lady, the husband on the trip here has over 800,000 YouTube subscribers and some of the YouTube's have been viewed more than 40 million times and she's in the studio tonight so your first name is Karen Karas but your better known online as*charisma*okay so you've got this mass following on on YouTube first what you do and then how to use it for the gospel.

D. It's a pleasure to be here. Dr. Michael Brown and they can't, and I do make tutorial beauty fastening inspiration. Okay, so, so, who is your target audience who do you think you're reaching mostly teenage girls from the age and are probably 12 to 18 okay now obviously I should say. Obviously, I would assume there's a lot of competition with I'm not really like following the makeup seems sure I didn't.

I just have makeup when I did NOT via stepping on the radio, which is sweet okay so so I don't really know, but I'm assuming really a lot of stuff out there.

Okay, so what what is it that has gotten you such a following link to see that. Okay, I think it's the favor of the Lord. I think that a lot of girls out there. They're looking for something real fake and I tried to be as genuine as I can letting them know about an outward beauty and I believe it's a fine enhance Eric if they can attend artistic and rate, especially South bats and teaching about inner beauty how that's important. Interesting. Interesting. So you've got this this large following and it is at your most view 1/40,000,000 views okay and what exactly was a video criterion and character, and I do a lot of Disney characters in the town characterizes Lauck eye contact. Yet Mike my producer here to citrus Mr. Mike here.

We need another one asked these dark eyes and things like HRA. This is the plan friends would eat what you think about this because charisma here herself that the plan is that she's going to do a makeover for me on her on her channel.

All right now a Scott volt, my dear friend Scott is concerned shows half of her subscribers in the process going to come into slick and raggedy and harden your makeover so that I look fabulous Elijah like 25 years old and then what will just say from to find out more go to asked Dr. Brown on YouTube, SK, Dearborn on YouTube and then suddenly on hundreds of thousand �13 wanted to come to my psyche for more makeup to know we could basically say just like we say. If God can use me. God accuse anybody so if you can do a makeover for me for work for anybody but seriously, though, these are teenage girls earned a lot of pressure these days and Emily got kids cutting themselves gotten suicide you got a look a certain way and they got you got the sexual pressure sexy young boys and so good to hear back from them and all my favorite tutorials to transaction my testimony called Arlette story Jacob and I testimony how fast got back together and share how I struggle with it aside when I was younger girl. I was buying everything Christian home and went to public school teeth constantly abused and EL were at powering your words over and over and over again. You begin to believe it and so there's part of life and death in your words and your speaking over people and I got to the point where I believe those words I and with the plaintiff to sign and and in God, that moment has come to painting the siding with about to attempt God spoke to me without the fear of the Lord first email wondering if hell is real and immediately after the love of God, and he felt fearfully and wonderfully made prying a purpose for me and I think Jeremiah 2911 changed everything for me in my perspective means that basing myself while I myself work on the world which left me feeling worthless.

I bet base my self-worth on the cross which meaningful pricelist because you can't put a price on Jesus like you can't get back to $5000.

He is priceless. And when he laid down his priceless life are not on the cross. He made a company that made me practice and everybody in the world price with awesome charisma that is the Karas charisma.*^. That is just awesome to hear and I can't believe you get to reach so many girls. One amazing audience they get saved to get right with God and can save them literally from death not just eternal death, but death and depression and hopelessness in this world so so keep on doing what you're doing and hate Matt want me to clarify. We need your YouTube exercise expertise more than your makeup expertise to that effect. Thanks for sharing that friends hear from an eight-year-old different seminar reaching 1213 oh those makeup. Bottom line today almost easy touch