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March 22, 2017 5:00 pm
So what does it mean to be intersects to be born. One way and have your chromosomes going in a different way stage for the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown.
I want to encourage you to give me and my guest. Your best here today and be talking about some very sensitive difficult issues. The kind of things that you're not used to hearing on Christian radio, do so with compassion to do so with wisdom to do so with truth. This is Michael Brown.
Welcome to the broadcast 866-348-7884 a few minutes to be bringing on a special guest Leanne Simon and Leanne will tell us a very personal story.
Very unique story and by coming on the air. Leanne is neither agreeing or disagreeing with my positions, and other issues, nor am I necessarily affirming or dis-affirming what Leanne will share take one step at a time, but a pastor said to me couple years ago Mike when our generation hears the word homosexuality. We think an issue with the younger generation hears the word homosexuality, they think a person well in the same way when we hear the word transgender. Many of us think an issue.
Others think a person in each of these cases we are dealing with both issues and people were dealing with issues like one. I just read about where a boy teenage boy in high school is shocked to be disrobing next to a girl whose disrobing in his locker room. The school just change their policy incentives the girl identifies as a boy she can use the boys locker room and they've actually taken this case, the court's that was that violated his privacy and his suicidal cozy like a girl you know this violated this privacy said violated hers is as well so you have here, both an issue with and you have people involved. And when God made him a hard 2004 that these were issues that I needed to address immediately gave me a heart for the people involved.
I think go looking for this. This is not my own background I don't come out of homosexuality. I don't. I can't relate to being attracted to the same sex. I did not have gender identity confusion of any kind.
Yet, my heart has been broken for people as much, as I'm called bigoted homophobe and transformed by care deeply about people.
Whenever I write on these issues and what I've referred to strand sanity I write on them because there are issues affecting our culture is a weightlifting competition the other day for folks New Zealand, Australia, that part of the world and that the winner of the women's competition is a man who was a weightlifter as a male and now smoke the female competition and some of us, and that's what she so proud about, you know, she's not equal she's not. She she see. Well whenever I write about these things always look there are some people were intersects, meaning they have a biological or chromosomal abnormality, and we need to look at them like anyone else with an abnormality or defect in and work with them to find wholeness and be compassionate in interest with every unique struggle. They have but that is in separate from someone who is biologically chromosomal mailing believes themselves to be female or both or neither the subcategories so we were contacted by Leanne Simon the man said hey friends have encouraged me to reach out to you.
Here's my story and the answer given lectures publicly and things like that out about her story tells her story. I said okay. What's come on the air. Let's talk so you hear about a category that an individual should about a life that's very different from what you and I might be used, to perhaps constitutes limited under 1% of the population will be right back. You don't want to go anywhere for the Expo line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown guest in the minutes ahead. But if you have a question performance will be open 866-34-TRUTH 784.
I may take some listener questions as well. My guest Leanne Simon in her personal description says 60 something Christian housewife intersects advocate. If you've read articles right talk about what I've referred to strand sanity meaning things in the culture because of transgender activism that I feel very wrong again. I will start the articles is a just mention the introduction to the broadcast.
By saying when I talk about people who were intersects who have a biological or chromosomal abnormality because, which they don't fit neatly into male or female categories and will we have compassion on those who are biologically crumbs only male or female, but internally feel differently, and what identifies transgender wheat we have compassion on them, but we will turn the whole world upside down based on their own perceptions.
Let's lead to discussion via email with Leanne Simon and Leanne said sure glad to come on the air and talk with the suit. Leanne thanks so much for taking time to join us on the line of fire today thinking that limits if you don't mind before we we just talk about your own life your own history. The journey you've been on.
Simply stated, how would you define the difference between intersects and transgender when they overlap where their differences are ordinarily there is no difference ordinarily may have normal male puberty and be fertile, but there are people who conference answer. I am still female rest of the variables or x-axis and have a penis and this is without any medical intervention.
So someone, someone could be born with female chromosomes and yet male genitalia that something like that does happen that would be considered intersects correct correct.
One of them more common intersects conditions are fairly rare. One of the more common among them something called complete androgen insensitivity syndrome X, X, Y, with cascades in the abdomen, but since the body can't do anything with male hormones. It converts them to female hormones and you end up with a normal or typical female puberty without her.
So their infernal on but they could go through their entire lives without knowing that there God and in in terms of your understanding those that would have some type of biological or chromosomal abnormality.
What percentage of the population is that some people like to say that it's the same percentage enhancement hands, but I think that's a little misleading in that if you go to parts of Scotland.
There are quite a few redheads and their places elsewhere in the world that have very few most urban highest figure occurs between one and 2%.
A lot depends on who you put in the category and he don't instance, if you only have 16, being asked if he female with terms and and the question is whether that's intersects could be missing a lie could be missing X results the same way. Let the let's just say that roughly if if we want to put this into Mr. categories us to say roughly 1% of the population, which is the one in 100 people. We might not know about it because these things and that necessity can be shouted from the rooftops and people will deal with things privately with publicly and sweet. We wouldn't be aware that it's even 100 obviously for you it's not 100.
It's one this is this is your own life and forgive me for just putting some terms out coldly before we talk personally but of you. You wrote a young adult novel, content, confessions of a teenage hermaphrodite what's hermaphrodite night on another term that people argue that the current medical dictionary say that it's someone who has both ovarian and testicular tissue mythological. He was someone who was capable of reproducing either male or female, and that and what's the difference between that and androgynous, and refers to someone who's between in your presentation so that you look at a menu not quite sure whether they're male or female, but I'm thinking in terms of clothes and waving talk and hold themselves. That's right so that would be different than hermaphrodite which would be biological array.okay look I'm just putting these things out here because many are confused and then Smitty they don't know the difference between say your situation and some of his drag queen cyclists were talking to two different worlds here. Okay so when them in and again Leanne you're here to talk about your life and to talk about intersects not to be here as an LGBT advocate on broader issues is on that you may be you may not be am not making any assumption okay if you want to weigh in on it was things that find biblical interpretation is find, but I'm not assuming anything on that. Assuming you agree with me or disagree with me on Scripture or anything.
We just want to understand your own situation in your own journey so as far as who you are physically crumbs only what makes you intersects.
I mentioned that only a single text, they there hello I we have we have lost you for a moment to tell you what, how, you gotta backup number try to call her guest on so we just just lost her there for a moment, but which are about to hear is going to be different now. Make sure that is not online there okay which about here is different than what you used to, but not everyone fits in biologically crumbs only into a normal male or female pattern may be one of the hundred have exceptions and the question is how does someone like that find wholeness. How does someone like that. Find out who they really are I making a good eye this May I make a clear distinction between this and Bruce Jenner Caitlin Jenner. Okay, here is a biological chromosomal mail, fully functioning male who pleases a female and is seeking to live as a female to a certain extent I make a distinction or there may transgender intersects advocates that say no. All or part of a larger complex. I'm different with that right so we're talking about an actual abnormality were here you can be biologically male but have a chromosomal issue which causes you to not behave respond as normal male you could be a biological female in the chromosome only you have differences because of which you cannot live a normal life and fit in normal categories now in the past. The doctors normal practice was was this right with doctors would normally do. If there was a child born with ambiguous genitalia and doctors found it easier to make that child into a female than a male and then found out many of the kids they operated on. Actually, actually they got wrong was they just made the assumption we just change can outwardly fan out that they were very wrong to the great detriment of the child so regardless of how you feel about were talking about. I hope that there will be a sense of compassion for those who struggle and then for those for whom it's entirely mental, emotional, is nothing biological, chromosomal, but they still struggle we want is God's people, not just as it was wrong but say let's help you find wholeness. Let's walk with you in a place where you can find wholeness and whatever help you need. Let it be that we stand by with you to help get that help is supposed to shun you and push you away. It's one thing if someone has an agenda that you try to push a interrogation order trying to sow confusion or influence people. It's another thing where someone struggle and in the midst of their struggle.
They say hey you stand with me as I see wholeness. That's what we need to do God's people file light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the minor fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH dear again is Dr. Michael Brown, you have Leanne's assignment so Leanne R back on the phone here together so you are in the middle of explaining just your own unique situation and born biologically male with a chromosomal issue. So back to you hopefully won't we won't lose you this time. Some cells that are chromosomal.
He female similar chromosomal email that led to gonads that were mixed.
Or at least it is genetic for me and so at the age of 22 development preaching the endocrinologist offered a choice between testosterone and estrogen and said that I wouldn't have any trouble if I just switched to living as a girl and so I did that and return estrogen was a July spin like up to that. How did you see yourself. You obviously had a boy's name you you you were considered a ballboy by other boys. How did you feel about yourself and how did you fit in gender-neutral name. Actually, founder/design rationally or just happen like that. I don't know.
I know my father didn't my father didn't know anything about my condition. My mother was a nurse and in general kept me away from the doctors. I was the smallest of my classmates until fifth-grade and I was frail enough so that my parents were you not losing me. So they didn't worry too much about cross gender behavior had you perceive yourself well I knew that I really was in either one thing I terms I want desperately to be a boy like my brother was tall and strong and could play sports and to all of those things and yet I always wanted to be a wife and mother, and Aaron is in fifth grade had my first serious crush on a boy, which of course didn't go over very well, but I got this feeling that if I create heart and if I just tried really really heart that God would make me a boy and my feeling was that wasn't and it was my fault because I wasn't trying I just didn't know. I didn't know where to go or what to do to become Warren and he knew I wasn't and I sort of felt guilty about wanting 80s and Leanne was. It was a comment as were talking now dictates back on my early 60s. Your 60s dictates back was another fairly common practice, if the doctor was confronted with the baby born say with ambiguous or diligent to tell you that the easiest thing for them was just to make the child into a female, biologically or physically.
I should say. And then they realize that that that was not that was that the best course of action other words, there is kind of a cut and dry way of doing things without perhaps recognizing some of the complexities of of what was going on.
You confronted with any of that growing up or did your mother have a bit different perspective. My mother kept me away from the doctors is much as possible. I didn't see one time I was seven or eight years old until I had an emergency appendectomy in college so but yes, in the early 1950s, they would. It was standard practice to take an intersects child had ambiguous genitals and turned surgically operate to make them look female Aaron.
This theory was that there is a window of opportunity before the child was two years old to change the genitals change their gender identity by making sure the parents had no doubt about what gender the child doesn't work because if the child was was actually male, but with ambiguous genitalia. Then they did the child a terrible disservice. So I understand how the best intentions could fall far short, but you are now told is your growing and developing that you could doctors and you could go either way. So you went the way of of estrogen. How would you start to feel about yourself. Then I was greatly surprised at how people treated me because voice can be brutally anyone has different types because girls continue one of the things that I had turned to trying to solve the problem was signed by got away from my family and just had time to figure out who I was and what it was.
Can it do you think should be trying to support his family for boy storm and if you're not physically mail boy storm isn't the best idea. So I got bullied me there was a boy who proved that he could do every morning to me at any time greatly by there was Isaac of so when I started estrogen and start living as a girl all bullying right away in my emotional issues start clear up my hormone levels had been very low so it estrogen with low hormone levels you have depression since I got an answer. Genetic I wasn't all that excited about getting feminine sex development either. I liked my body doing it once, but you can't just spend your entire life with no right so if this this stage you have. You are you are married and you are Christian, do you feel as much as a human being in a broken world can be do feel whole and your identity L'Express state that a different way. Please. This is what the Lord uses to keep me coming back to the cross, if I woke up and I was 21 again. Aaron completely male or completely female. I would probably go off and wander away and do a bunch of foolish things, but I've been encouraged to embrace the Lord's provision for my life.
This is what it is so III appreciate articulated that friends. This is an important conversation. Leanne is not alone in having these very real struggles.
It's the light a fire with your host activist, author, international speed and Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 86643 here again is Dr. Michael Brown and Simon Lee and I received an email yesterday. Individual I won't use the name identifies as I read and was writing me to thank me for standing up against whatever for two strand sanity and a lot of things happening in the culture which I believe are very, very wrong and negative effects of transgender activism and Irene wanted to explain that Irene was born male, not intersects born male transition to female walked away from God lived like that for years. God started to call Irene back. Irene's married to a man because her to call Irene back. Irene is ashamed of what happened, which he did feels that it was it was wrong and it was Simba.
Here's where she is now seeking to follow the Lord and is so grieved by by transgender activism in the culture when I set things up before you came on. I said that was making clear that this was not a statement for or against activism work that you and I were in agreement on on any point II want people at to fully understand. It was about human beings and that these are struggles that night I will relate to as a heterosexual male, and I don't relate to, understand, so at any point that that when I get into something that you feel is important to communicate to my listening audience pleased to say had I'd like to talk about about this book, when in your heart of hearts before the Lord, you look at yourself is as is having a condition that is made you more dependence on the Lord, do you see any difference between that and aspects of transgender activism, would you think a we just need to be sensitive to people in all their struggles.
I need to be sensitive to people in all their struggles and not prioritize them. My younger sibling is transgender and I know how much of the struggle experience for them and just trying to survive to be into their 60s and there aren't any easy answers to.
I think sometimes about what Jesus said, he said that Moses allowed you to divorce for any reason whatsoever, but that's not the way that marriage is supposed to aunt Aaron. So there's a difference sometimes between the Destin rewrite and launch lawful or allowed and I think when you start making blanket statements about anyone particular person situation.
You seem to be careful. If they don't know Jesus.
It doesn't matter what. They do their makeup. The Holy Spirit Navy a little bit of sit down and talk with God. Again, I want to speak. This release is you Canada and I know that you are not a political advocate is much as a personal advocate seeing these human beings with issues and struggles in the church needs to understand.
Obviously, it's much easier when things fit in normal categories.
God making human beings, male and female. That's how the world goes around it wouldn't be human race if you want me male and female, with all that implies with reproduction family and nurturing and biological and emotional differences in social differences and yet not everyone fits in those categories all right will have more time to talk here Leanne's heart what she would say to the church in terms of where we could do better and in what would be an ideal scenario, transgender but is biologically chromosome leave male or female.
What is God's best idea for her plan by Expo light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice it more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown speaking with Leanne Simon flies as a 60 something Christian housewife intersects advocate and by the way, just looking at bio fastening bar entrepreneur advocate, author explore including flying solo in the Veronica champ from Sunset strip in Marlboro Ohio to wife Nancy Texas and yes some some very interesting background here. Leanne do you look at gender distinctions, the gender binary is some type of constricting enemy.
Would you recognize it's the norm for the vast majority of the human race certainly in order for the vast majority human race.
I wish that it were a little here for boys to be nurturing for girls to play sports something that I think we draw our categories too narrowly at times and intersects doesn't really have much to do with most mostly intersex people in a net net net hundreds live ordinary lives as either men or women and there's in others a minority that don't want to call themselves men or women want 1/3 category are such that that's fine with me. In the Bible has 1/3 category may mean a unique someone that would be incapable of normal sexual activity. I think I would accept except that definition in terms national intercourse is certainly and it's it's it's clear that the promise of the gospel is open to everyone, whether male-female American woman unit or anything else. What I generally try to stress to people in the church is first of all, if God gives you an intersex baby there fine lady are you don't need to change their bodies cosmetically and there's no reason you can raise him as a boy without doing surgery or as a girl without doing surgery. Aaron give them time to show what gender God gave them to participate in any decisions regarding permanent alterations to their body and the other thing that I would like to see errors a lot more transparency and I recently move from Georgia to Tennessee when my church in Georgia ran across my blog, Aaron heard some of the public presentations I given.
They said you know you really should be more transparent with the entire congregation of previous church had asked me never to speak to anybody in the church and the church right now doesn't really know because I want people to know me as intersex and wanting to know me is me, someone is a Christian who wants to talk to him about Jesus instead about my body and I also would talk to them about things like look Tennessee wanted to pass a law that said that any vital record that wasn't based on the initial sex designation on the original birth certificate was white which would void every record that I've got probably including the deed to the house and and it's it's yeah I understand that there's a culture war going on. It's just that I keep getting hit from outside right right I understand some sides of the on the one hand you absolutely identify with those struggling with intersex and transgender issues.
On the other hand, you recognize were there to be abuses with transgender activism different. For example, of here there's there's a case I was going to court Todd Starnes reports a teenage boy was told by his principal that he had to could tolerate undressing in front of a female student and to make it as natural as possible.
This is a lawsuit in a Pennsylvania federal District Court and here is the a Boyd speed called Joel, though he was standing in his underwear and set a locker room at Bordentown area high school printer change for phys ed class. He said he realized he was a member of the opposite sex change with the Milagro who was at the time, wearing nothing but shorts and a bra. The boy with some of his classmates reported the incident to the assistant principal, and he indicated that legality was up in the air with its students to mentally identify with the opposite sex could choose the locker room and bathroom to choose a physical sex did not matter to me that subtly abusive. Regardless of what's going on in a kids life. You don't now impose that and everyone else and especially kids.
It could simply be some emotional confusion. That's what I'm getting hit with constantly and therefore speaking up against these issues are recent weightlifting competition where Amanda identifies as a woman.
All the women in the witnessing.
This is not fair here.
They've they've they've worked the Holos to get to this point and no biological male defeats almost surprises is bigger and stronger I get grieved over that, but at the same time I realize when I speak out about those things and probably hurting somebody like you or for example, we say look your Bruce Jenner wants to change his birth certificate to say he was born female. I have an issue with that because he's not female who's a healthy reproductive father and mail for years. However, a case like yours where your birth certificate and tell the whole story we have a category for that that's it's the either/or thing that makes it very difficult and obviously this is been again your life. You're not 100. This is this is your life and what you say them neatly on of how much of my stuff you've read, but you are encouraged to contact me you just mentally candid with me, I've got no though concerned with what you say to me on my radio show. All right, but you look at someone like me if you've read any of my stuff to discuss the monsters do more harm than good or is well intended but is ignorant. How do you view someone like me. I think that people are to ready today to be offended. So what I would ask adherents remember that Blessed are the peacemakers.
So, in a case like a locker room. There are things that they could do that with protect the rights of both of the students. For instance, have it if I had a daughter in public school.
I'm not sure I wonder undressing in front of anyone. So NOS as far as the bathrooms, I don't see too much of a problem because their stalls and Aaron most people don't slash their genitals when they're in their know if if you telling transgender student I can't use the bathroom that agrees with their gender identity may have to go into either possibly remote gender-neutral bathroom or they have to go in to answer harlequin gambling center, there's it's a sensitive issue. There I think are some decent solutions but neither side seems to be interested in finding common ground is also glad to say I think you Christian ought to be meeting on finding common ground. I look first.
I appreciate the you the measured tone, not reactionary, not speaking out of the life of hurt bitterness and lashing out at people and and I hope listeners recognize that your speaking first and foremost is a Christian and though some people blessed me for having you on the air and some people bless you for having for coming on my shelf and I was to be hefty with both septic, not letting think twice about that because the larger issues.
But lately, some doubt them will come back on the other side of the break in and hear from you, and any key things in on your heart that you haven't got your share will cover but number one. I think there is an all-out assault on gender have documented for years in cactus literature.
I think that plays into the gender confusion when you have Facebook give me 50 different ways to choose your gender that's not enough notes. Fill in the blank to meet. To me that's madness. This cultural madness that were participating in. That's one thing. Second thing is if some of this have a handicap and and let's just say we have to look at it like that nifty is a handicap bathroom and that's an option presented will find others you that's what it's there for, or single stall. The faculty of use. That's the one only place they go well if that's offered to student also then take it. Instead, the transaction was a no no no Johnny identifies Jane James can use the girls bathroom gets uncomfortable is a problem with that to me is turning society upside down in a healthy way. So I'm all for accommodating someone in the midst of your struggle will turn the whole world upside down, but deny the fundamentals because of it right back to when we return to light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 86. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown, Olivia start here. Leanne I know people who are former transgender.
They use to have what is called gender identity disorder and alkyl gender dysphoria, then no longer didn't all the ones that I know with God's help. Found transformation in all of them renounce sex change. Some of them had sex change surgery and that they could do about it now, but they all announce that all regret the changes but I don't know anyone that's former intersects think, by definition, you can be former intersex which you can be former transgender. Neither you chocolate your sister in that situation. I don't know her situation. Let meddling there but if if I was in your shoes, we can certainly that now the door has just been open to some people saying you know that that their gender is this completely malleable place referred gender blind or you throw everything and comes out.
You know, just different. Or they they it varies from day to day today.
If you are decrying. That's a no-no on tonsil a very different thoughts in the way that election made, not just in my perceptions, which can easily shift from day-to-day, hypothetical, intersex case say that you have your own child has ambiguous genitals has been living as a girl and earned the birth certificate says mail because for the first three months say hot, you should raise the child is a boy so the child in school. Nobody knows, but then they pass a law that says that you gotta check birth certificates so your child is going to have to either use the girls from our People wondering why they're using the nurses station and you're gonna have to reveal the child's medical staff to the teachers. Aaron all in the name of a football player and address 50 some way around. That's why that's why I personally believe that to include LGBT IQ and and intersex being the eye there. I think it hurts you and is you a disservice because I do believe that if there has been a misdiagnosis right that that the again. You see, you have ambiguous genitals.
A child born in the just decided okay this is this is Susie not Sam but then growing off. Sam knows I am Sam really am Sam and then chromosomes turns out, demonstrate that this is Sam there's an error on the birth certificate that should be fixed. To me, that has no connection whatsoever to biological crumbs old male who is convinced it's a female and wasn't birth certificate changed into my that's when it is up hurting you.
The church's ability to better minister to people in your shoes aswe have to do better. We have to be more sensitive to those that don't fit in all categories. It's that simple. And Jesus certainly has a heart for the marginalized and to me it's a shame that folks in your shoes, I find it more at home in the gay lesbian church then then in a in a straight church of because we don't relate to the marginalized directly to me that's that's terrible.
Let's again the reason I'm having on the air was for greater sensitivity to the body of Christ to these issues because I would like a distinction you might be surprised, actually. I remember set in Georgia is now part of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church which is a very conservative reform denomination and they were accepting but like you align drawn between me and my sister that I have the biological difference and she is also disobedience to God, so I got all I can say is we need to do as Christians, be tenderhearted and also stand for the truth, and sometimes it's very easy to plant someone who is different and assume that the difference is entirely willful disobedience rather than something that they're struggling with that they need help and to be clear again. I know nothing about your sister just told me in this these last minutes but I always look at someone you have an older cousin who has transition from male to female from the 70s now. I can imagine the trauma he went to work when not in interactions. I don't know more story. I'd love to hear more, but this looks to be a certain way because of my my posture and I understand that I can imagine what I can live with. I can imagine it is not a follower of Jesus, either, but I can imagine the struggle she's going through. I can imagine the price you pay when he started to wear a dress. I think lost her job over from from correctly been for many many years on the effect it's had on his larger family. So my default attitude is compassion and and and paying for that individual thinking they must be going through struggles. I can imagine now there's a line they could cross. And how they live or I could say it's willful disobedience. But for many, I think it's deep confusion and I will try to help them from the inside out and there is a line so if you cross that would be willful disobedience. But that's that's my default value in and Leanne. Let's agree that that we need to lean on Jesus with all of our hearts and we need to have his heart of extraordinary love for every human being on the planet, especially those who don't fit normal categories.
While not tearing those categories down. I think we can agree on that. Yes yes yes I think so. I is is is there. We just got 30 seconds zero website you would recommend people go to find out more about what is meant by intersex.
There are quite a few but if you direct them to my website. Then I'll post something that gives like a little directory and other sites are the China.com Leanne Simon.com so that spelled LI a N and E. Simon, Leanne Simon.com once more LI a N and E.
Simon.com man Simon.com hey thank you for sharing your story with us. I appreciate it. Thanks for reaching out to me in the first place. Thanks for having you bed all right friends care take care of the website again. Leanne Simon.com Christian writing about intersex. I hope you found this conversation helpful, enlightening, at the very least, I hope it's true to her for greater compassion for those who do struggle either biologically crumbs only emotionally, whatever it might be. Let us be here to help people find wholeness friends. Please be praying that a major debate Orthodox Jewish rabbi one night watches plot along posted Facebook will be in for my bottom line. Jesus came to heal the broken hearted broken will should we boycott are not set apart with the church is called to do stage for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown are you talk about two interesting conversations back to back. We are about to have two in the last hour I spoke with man Simon for the flower basically from well this with the flower Christian intersex individual. She is married to her husband for many years strongly committed to following the Lord, and was born biologically male, but not fully crumbs only male with aspects that were female and ended up finding identity as female living as female, ever since.
Not fitting neatly into other categories because of a chromosomal abnormality. On the one hand, the whole reason for having the on the show was to talk honestly about people who are intersex so 1% or less of the population of a biological chromosomal abnormality at the same time as Leanne those and I made very clear on the show. I wholeheartedly oppose transgender activism. Confusion brings and returns the world upside down because of the perceptions the needs of some of struggling with gender confusion I mentioned in a recent article 2 women in Canada that were ordered to leave a homeless shelter. Why, because there was a biological male who identified as a female sharing room with them, sharing facilities with them, the biological male. The women understandably went comfortable and imagine your home was sent to shelter. You have an address life maybe been abused maybe been raped. Maybe you been taken advantage of in one way or another.
Now you're trying to have a place of refuge from the storm read homeless shelter there you being asked to share the facilities with a man, a biological male when they made an issue of it. They were told they had to leave.
These are the things the grieving so when target stores couple years ago said we are now getting rid of gender distinctions in our toy aisles when they said that they're not going to have boys toys and girls toys because that offended some people felt those restrict categories and gender distinctions and all of that. Well, that was step one to be cultural madness because you have 1% or less of the percent operation struggling Mr. Nair, let us be compassion understanding of their struggles with the same time not throwing out everything else and declare war and gender making gender. The enemy and not every boy is going to play with guns that every girls yellow play with dolls, but there are generalizations and that's what the aisles were about the generalizations when target goes one step further and says all locker rooms all changing rooms. I should say and bathrooms or gender-neutral meaning.
However, you perceive yourself. That's where you go and no one can stop you. And there have been examples now of man who identifies as a woman, but who enjoys looking at other women try to photograph people record them and target changing room was actually happened ready these kinds of abuses and target basis of what you know in many of our member facilities is a handicap bathroom and obviousness can be smaller, single stall and into the bathrooms potentially larger about we have it we have that and and if people struggle those of heterosexuals, and those who are male-female struggle with the possibility transgender breathtaking views that want no you don't turn everything upside down is one of struggling and you don't open the door for heterosexual predator heterosexual predator transgender person heterosexual predator take advantage of these things. So make a family Association launched a boycott against very effective. Now were joined by Ed Caggiano of the American family Association to tell us about stage II of the boycott for the two different conversations assembly just work out like that. The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown in the first hour passion for those who struggle compassion for those who don't fit neatly into or male-female categories. Someone intersex sake biologically male but with some abnormal chromosomes and struggling for life. Finding identity or the male or the female touch with the need for compassion, even for someone who's biologically crumbs only male who identifies as female, and so they have some emotional disconnect some interior disconnect internal disconnect want to help them compassionately, but we do not turn the world upside down. If you have a child in the school is my standard illustration sorry if I bore you with it. A blind child in the school. One child since 1200 students.
That's blind and you don't have a school for the blind in the area. We do best to help the child accommodate their needs but you don't force all the children in the school to close their eyes and read braille well when it comes to transgender activism. Now were looking at the issues we talked about the people that were looking at the issues you talk about the issues. This is something we return society upside down so you get rid of boys toys and girls toys because that product puts things in gender categories and make everything gender-neutral want to have a whole story gender-neutral instead of men's clothes with his close men's underwear women's underwear. No men's bathing suits. What is one not have the whole story just everything is gender-neutral.
Obviously the world not work like that. If that's the direction in which target has been going in American family Association is led the way with a very effective boycott now to join me on the air is Ed Caggiano, executive vice president with the American family Association talk about phase 2 of the boycott of target Ed welcome to the line of fire Michael by your pleasure and honor you and your listeners will serve first. What's the motivation calling for a boycott. Is this just Christian bullying are trying to force our views on some of what's the motivation for our boycott target pledge says until target makes the safety of women and children a priority. I will shop elsewhere.
So our our our our goal is the safety of women and children. I would also add that we think that this policy is not only dangerous on the part of target but misguided because our our suspicion isn't having talked to people, hundreds who have emailed us there a lot of people who are just don't feel like they are comfortable with a member of the opposite sex. In such an intimate setting.
So it's not simply that they may feel like they're in danger, but just to feel uncomfortable about being in that setting with so on the one hand, this opens the door potentially to some type of heterosexual predator, not a transgender person is confused about identity, but it generally opens the door to to someone who's a sexual predator because you can't tell the person not to command because hate HUD had identified. It's not just that at some say look this is clearly a biological male in the ladies room and even as a predator. We still feel uncomfortable. That's the other side to it. Ed have there actually been documented cases of abuse of of this target policy. We try to keep up with on our website. They.net. By the way, they can be granted on the topic they want to read more about the target boycott week. We have examples on the bottom of the page and you know the same month that we initiated the boycott were coming up on the one year anniversary April 20. There was an incident and so these bees are happening as you pointed out, this opening for sexual predators would weep from the very outset, and I know this to be a fact because I wrote the first press release for the ministry we want to make sure that the general audience the general population understands we are not saying the transgender people are a threat. If that target in their efforts to make transgender people feel comfortable using the restroom there policy removes obstacles for sexual predators and visit you don't wheat we all grew up. Michael interviewed you face-to-face.
I know your probably my age bracket somewhere close to it. We grew up in a world where this was a question and you have mentoring you had women's rooms and changing areas, and if you saw a man going in the women's restroom somebody would stop service women's restroom your mate. You made a mistake when you remove that obstacle, you have made it easier for sexual predator to gain access to their victims.
When this week we talked to and taken emails from ladies who don't even necessarily agree with much of what IFA does, who said this is a bridge too far. If I'm in an enclosed space, and a man walks in.
I don't care what his reasons are. I've got nowhere to run and we certainly don't want to wait until the first screams happened inside the bathroom before we do something you and look there are also many women who suffered abuse at the hands of men and the one place.
At least they know what is relative safety when they do something private is a bathroom and and it always amazes me that they're not considered that the large number of women who been abused here.
The women who been sexually abused or harassed over the lives massively outnumbers those who identifies transgender and get their needs are not considered either. So Ed phase 1 of the boycott what's happened so far haven't you signed up.
How effective has it been, well, we are at. We got the first million which in one week, which I think in the sale of a perfect storm up to get indicated just how visceral the reaction was to target the announcement there policy letting you know men going to the women's restroom and changing areas, so that was so fast it made our head spin. It didn't. In the intervening months we have reached nearly another half-million so wrapped 1.466. Somewhere there. Seven.
RR second phase is to try to reach 1.5 million by the one-year anniversary April 20.
At that point, Tim Wildman, the president of AFA is going to ask target for a second meeting met in May with target officials of senior officials and so we want to revisit them. Once we reach that 1.5 million number because of the fiber thousand customers and really family is a big chunk of people and so were hoping to get target to change of policy and to go back to six separate gender separate bathrooms and changing areas, and then put transgender customers or anybody who doesn't feel like they want to use the bathroom with multiple people have a single occupancy gender-neutral bathroom bets. Transgender people can can use. We think that's a reasonable accommodation as you set a number of women who have been abused and suffered abuse attribute small number so that other customers don't feel like they want to be in the same bathroom members of the opposite sex we think is a good accommodation. We hope target will agree what they say will changing areas we just left out with it is that all you nobody there may be some way to create a gender-neutral change your number two made a changing area is that this would come off some cigarettes. The bathrooms, what about the changeless cassettes that's even more possibility of seeing someone in the compromise position or in the one of the abusive cases was a guy who identifies a woman, but try to videotape other women in the changing room right yeah I wheat we want those Separate as well.
Your target initially said what were the best thing was $20 billion to make sure all of our stores have missed a gender-neutral single lot bathroom. I you know it it kind of bizarre fashion they fit so anyone who is not comfortable with the opposite sex. Can you bathroom… They're the one who had a 99% that sitting normal categories can use this this one bathroom and the 1%, the dose with normal categories they can use the other two got I was a bizarre response but yeah, they're willing to invest that kind of money they can make a gender-neutral changing area. I don't I don't think you know that the percentage of people in this country who are transgender is just a fraction of 1%. The chances that you're going to have multiple transgender people in the same store shopping who have to use the restroom or the changing area at the same time I think is just so infinitesimally small as to not even be on the table in the debate have a single occupancy gender-neutral bathroom and changing area because that can be a lot smaller may be a single stall is rising 7.2 target let them shall it make that investment.
That investment would be far more frugal than all the business they lost a just about to three more minutes to stay on with us. Sure, absolutely, I stay right there we come back on the other side of the break. I want to find out how effective the boycotts been so for this one to what happened in that first meeting with target three what you can do now.
The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown.
Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown thanks for joining us friends speak in the auto Executive Vice President American family Association so it first question how effective has the target boycott being reach these extraordinary numbers very quickly. There was continued to grow, hasn't had a tangible effect on their business. Think Michael would have no labrum but you know from the outset here that normally affecting a large corporation's bottom line is not our primary goal often very difficult to do that, we usually watch boycott so we can talk about the issue, but in this particular case I my personal opinion that since the boycott started. We have seen a tremendous effect that the company lost $15 billion in just be fourth quarter report alone. Their profits plunged 43% of their stock prices plummeted more than 13% to a new two year low. This when you look at their spare stock. It was that 84 when we launch the boycott. It is now it 55 so I think that from that perspective, it is been very successful.
Frankly, I'm surprised the Brian Cornell VCO is not been fired by now because the performance of the company has been so poor in this yearly grant granted that some retailers are having a hard time but a lot of retailers, art and targets earnings have been way below the BP average of the retailer so I we think we think that that is having an effect what happened when you had your first meeting that the one meeting that you had with target leadership.
Yeah, this is the cattle laughable Tim Wildman and his son Walker Wildman, who the system of the president met with some target executives and Tim. You know talk about our concerns. They, you know, said at this point were not going to change our policy and Tim asked him he said the why did you make this change and the one of the ladies who was in the meeting with and said well our customer base demanded it demanded the change in policy, which I think is laughable.
I think what probably happened either.
A couple of customers who were transgendered might've mentioned it. Probably more likely the lesbian, Gay, bisexual, transgender group inside of target recommended this change. I just can't believe that the majority of their customers demanded the change in policy that would essentially allow men and women's restrooms and changing area. So that was what happened in the meeting, but they made it clear that they were not. There were very respectful of what will say that there was a very respectful meeting and go but they said at this point were not changing our policy right so what can folks do now is you going to face to well. We are excited were so close to 1.5 million deaths were asking people to do if I go to AFA.net again the big banner at the top were asking people to find the boycott target pledge and if they have two of them try to encourage family members or friends. There Sunday school classes neighbors. Whatever, to also sign it because we want to get this 1.5 million mark before April 20 and then the next thing I guess I just bought a phase 3 and shoot for 2 million big before the end of year so were hoping to really try to encourage that the target leadership to consider as you pointed out, Michael.
Consider the feelings and you know the beliefs of the vast majority of the customers for whom this is a foolish and even dangerous policy audit all clear, and having gone to know Tim better smoking for ASA some months back and I know your heart to the Lord in the heart for righteousness, and you lived in night with with one part of the world caricaturing this is hateful, but this is just common sense.
This is just caring about about families and this is a hey… Clearwater, and gender.
Just it's it's a losing battle.
So friends go to AFA.net. If you haven't signed target petition.
I know many of you did immediately as I did, but if you haven't signed it yet do so. So they can have more leverage when they go speak with target.
Hey, thank you for calling Douglas to keep up the good work at my pleasure… Thank you for having me on the show, my joy, I friends just to switch subjects you completely of, as I took a break, a moment go. We had a few minutes well few seconds of downtime between segments I noticed for the first time a major headline and regrets over team gearing up for my debate with North extras rabbi tomorrow night and not standing by feeding some of these headlines, but headlines everywhere terror at UK parliaments of British Parliament of cops stabbed pedestrians mode down Prime Minister. Apparently 40 yards from the attack. Three killed many injured and Isis is celebrating this saying it's blood for blood. I don't know who if anyone has claimed responsibility. Yet, what further details there are. I'm just looking at another headline here to attack loosely for dead, including a policeman, and 20 injured in London Terrace modem pedestrians before one color shot attacking cops in UK Parliament grounds and the question whether to have them involved.
This is a very traumatic event. Obviously, God be merciful to the families of those dead and help those injured in the God use this to wake up whoever whatever needs to be wake, awakened in England with average agree that these types of things are lurking under the surface, may we wake up and be aware not clear why all immigrants cover bid article 10 Muslims go for bit wake up to radical Islam if that's what it is. Wake up to the reality of that 866-34-TRUTH of good Oxford, North Carolina Lynn, welcome to the line of fire. Hello, I got around to go ahead, make on talking about the target issue with the rift during our grant a rate that Franklin Graham felt his Facebook account and he was speaking of foyer for terrorist takedown in the hospital and Afghanistan. I think he'll people injured many more in the way they did it once they put on white lamp current. They appeared to be a hospital employee and they were lenient with the motive of killing and destroying and my my comment in hell are the bathroom that target really any different from that hospital in Afghanistan. If you have me in saying that you know I think my felt that the woman and their coming into the women's bathroom.
Not every man that the woman inconvenient unit they're not how Anna that I think the parallels between the day hospital in Afghanistan and even our restaurant is not not saying that's comparing transgender Strattera sling is not comparing princes and tears say that the hospital addressing this is my computer. The doctors love the place up heterosexual predators are using transgender bathroom was to go to bathroom three peeping toms, or worse yet, it's said the truth.
That's one of the reasons that we protest these things. It's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 6634 through here again is Dr. Michael Brown number for someone to lead in the segment with it, but this is social justice, the musical part four. It's a parody of under the sea all about political correctness having a lot of attention on YouTube. Many, many views, so let's listen. John is a splendid driver yeah yeah yeah everything's gotta be radically PC this is Michael Brown welcome welcome to the broadcast 8663 freight 7884 is the number to call in a moment. I am going to be joined by Casey Maddox to talk about the bracket of shame to talk about some things with the and see a a that may surprise you in CA standing against bigotry stranding for tolerance. You might be a little bit surprised with that. Let me just tell you these days our college campuses are college campuses are some of the most in tolerant free speech restricting places in the world it or I should say in our society.
At the least and same thing in England and some other countries where if you are not politically correct. Can't say it it if if you don't fit in certain liberal categories you got no place it is extreme it is the height of intolerance.
It is everything but open minded and diverse, and yet it is everywhere on our campuses and growing measure across America and now one of the big issues is white privilege white privilege and everything has to change. There are schools that won't read some of the ancient poets because they're all white men could number 10.
Listen to what Prof. Jordan Peterson courageous Prof. in Canada psychology professor said to him talking March 11 at the Ottawa public library about white privilege. I think the idea of white privilege is absolutely reprehensible and it's not because we have all sorts of privileges and most people have privileges of all sorts and you should be grateful for your privileges and work to deserve. I would say but the.
The idea that you can target an ethnic group with a collective crime regardless of the specific innocence or guilt of the constituent elements of that group. There is absolutely nothing that's more racist than not, it's absolutely abhorrent the idea of collectively held guilt at the level of the individual as a legal or philosophical principle is dangerous. It's precisely the sort of danger that people who are really looking for trouble would push so and and just a cursory glance of 20th century history should teach anyone who wants to know exactly how how unacceptable that is. Yeah, absolutely all all speaking of campus madness theology students at the University of Glasgow are given trigger warnings Bible students are warned, you may find the crucifixion to upsetting. Gotta be concerned about the mental health of vulnerable students so trigger warnings when were talking about the crucifixion. This this might trigger something you might have a hard time with it.
So we want to warn you in advance. Okay, ready for some campus madness say 10 hits the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown wanted us on the line of fire. We service your voice of moral sanity and spiritual clarity limits society and Catholic Church. All too often in compromise. I'm joined now by Casey Maddox. He serves as senior counsel, the director of the Center for academic freedom with the alliance. Defending freedom ADF and is written article on the bracket of shame Casey welcomes Alana far thanks for joining us today think revenue on first why is there a need for a center for academic freedom. After all, isn't that what our campuses stand for academic intellectual freedom, faculty, students, is that what happens in over campuses. Well, that certainly should be the case, of course, what we find on many university campuses today of the students are not free of the First Amendment is not followed in many universities don't seem to to understand the person of actually imposes obligations on them and they have to make sure that they are protecting student First Amendment rights, and so we exist to try to keep the door open for the spread of the gospel in campus to make sure that that all students are clearer free to build a speaker minds freely and that there is a true marketplace of ideas and you been litigating cases like this on campuses fruit for years now with great success. Can you just give us an example wanted to hear what I have been advocating for have cases on campus for for many years now ADF has nearly 400 victories. Various times on the university campuses from speech codes to speech zones we have about hundred percent record dealing with speech sounds work, school, try to limit students to certain areas were allowed to speak in certain areas but are not, and is usually very limited areas.