The Battle for the Soul of America, and a Report from Iraq

Yes, all religious liberties. Our freedoms are really under attack in ways you might not even know it's time for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I hope you had a good fourth of July yesterday and the theme of the fourth liberty, freedom, something that will pursue today on the line of fire. This is Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us on looking at the phone number now because we've got a few special interviews coming your way. Over the next couple of hours so stay tuned. Listen with an open heart and an open mind remind you if you don't yet have our app our line of fire after you can listen on your phone wherever you are, we can catch up with past broadcasts wherever you are and connect with our website for articles and videos just go to the app store with Apple. If you have an iPhone you have an android phone, go to the Google play store downloads the line of fire was Dr. Michael Brown.

You can start listening immediately or before I bring on my first special guest and we begin to talk about religious liberty issues here in America. The me reach you a quote from Benjamin Franklin.

He said this. Nothing brings more pain than too much pleasure, nothing more.

Bondage then too much liberty as some of you can absolutely relate to the first part brings more pain than too much pleasure because press before you knew the Lord you lived a life of real fleshly indulgence and you did, whatever your body and mind wanted to do, you found yourself suffering because of when I see people that have everything in this world NaturallySpeaking maybe a guy that's got every imaginable girl just chasing him down spends more money in a day than some of us are in a month or year and seems to sever everything going from some gal since everything go from trauma in the natural flesh. I look at I feel bad for them because I know that the deep peace in the deep satisfaction and and that the deep sense of well-being and security that comes from being in right relationship with God right relationship with others then I can have that so many of you can relate to that that indulgence does not bring lasting freedom, freedom, lasting joy, lasting contentment that Franklin's is this nothing rings more bondage than too much liberty and and he didn't mean that America should not be a free country. But he meant that for there to be a free country.

We needed to have some restraints in place and there are God-given restraints that dots put into the heart of human beings worldwide, which is why we have certain shared morality worldwide that it's not just survival of the fittest. We recognize certain things are right certain things wrong, even fundamentally transcending religion and non-religion and things like that but with America. This was a great experiment to have the government have as little control as is was established by the father's for the people to be such a determining force to not have a royalty ruling with military power. This was in many ways a great experiment and it's just like your children when there three or four years old, you only entrust them with so much when there 12, 13, 14, with more when their 2030. You could turn the business over to them. So it's it's the same with us as we mature as we prove ourselves trustworthy.

We can have the more liberty that liberty comes with restraint.

That liberty comes with certain principles and the principles on which our nation was founded religious liberty being one of the fundamental principles of which was founded based everything on a creator given us inalienable rights friends. We mess with that he fall into bondage cast-off God is King find a southbound not free. The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

There's an important new book out by Oxford University press. Debating religious liberty and discrimination and on the one side decided we would say would be that the left side or the quick progressive side Prof. John Corvino met John face-to-face.

It's a very cordial interaction with him.

Had him on the radio were supposed to do a debate couple years ago on same-sex marriage progress or regress, but had to cancel that we might do in the future. John Corvino takes aside that in many ways I would differ with John's, PhD, Prof. and chair of the philosophy department at Wayne State University. On the other side, the side that that I would agree with and be in harmony with Sheriff Gorgas and Ryan T. Anderson Wright is one of the leading conservative thinkers today.

You have seen him on TV debating these very issues is the William E. Simon Senior research fellow at the Heritage foundation. We sat side-by-side and panel discussions, and we had him on the air with us before so glad to have Ryan back with us today on one of our thanks for joining us are happy with you so Ryan if you can explain Prof. Corvino's point is, he opens the book speak about religious liberty that religious privilege so that the things that we think are fundamental for us us as Americans in an hour.

Religious freedoms we want exemptions from certain laws and things like that. He's looking at as some kind of special privilege. Could you give us his point of view during the ongoing want to argue that it the law is a good law and it is a good enough law after everyone else.

There is no special reason why religious people should get what he called a get out of the law free card playing on the monopoly get out of jail free card. And so John would argue that certain antidiscrimination laws so deal adding sexual orientation and gender identity to our antidiscrimination statutes. Those are good laws because they prevent harm from being inflicted upon LGBT Americans and religious people when they argue for exemption from the laws that's more akin to a religious privilege so that they can break the law in a way that other people cannot everything. The nice thing about the format of this book debating book. We go back and forth that I get to Regina. Both of those points. I don't think 30 laws are justified. I don't think there's a justification for the government to add extra orientation and gender right in the protected classes under our law, nor do I think religious liberty exemption from those burdensome laws in the form of privilege.

If anything at the home of privilege to have next orientation generator.

The as a protected class exempting someone from the burden of that laws not privileging of their position. If merely saying that working to protect coexistence. I think that their position won't be penalized.

So let's listen look at the Sochi laws themselves decades ago.

These were not on the books so you you you didn't have a loss and you can't discriminate based on sexual orientation. You can't discriminate based on gender identity. Whether someone is born this way or not we both disputes that you can't argue with the fact that most people did not decide, hey I think I want to be gay or I think I want to be confused about my gender identity so this is just to the people or they didn't ask for this. Why shouldn't they be a category just the same as race or ethnicity or gender.

Why shouldn't we have laws that that specifically protect them from discrimination watercraft because you decades ago we didn't have the in some jurisdictions we did, but they were interpreted back then and when they were ratified as not to be a law that would punish them because they believe marriage of the unit man, woman, there were several states that had authority, law on the book while continuing to define and defend marriage properly understood it only in light of a reinterpretation of the law which we now say that believing that marriage is a male-female relationship is to discriminate on the basis of extra orientation out believing that mail is a biological category, not a social, or psychological category just is to discriminate on the basis of agenda right for the owner that these laws are now employing an overly expansive understanding of what counts as discrimination out everyone very clear example about how to think about the imagine if there was a hospital that said we won't do chemotherapy for you because your transgender my mind that would be an unjust form of discrimination on gender identity particular gender identity of the patient into consideration where it irrelevant for the gender identity of the cancer patient doesn't matter to the type of cancer treatment they need, and in their treating that patient left equally radically different than a Catholic hospital that fed we won't performance sex reassignment surgery, and right now Catholic hospitals are being sued because they have written, refused to do sex reassignment surgery in the lawsuit says there quote discriminating on the basis of gender identity when the Sochi statutes for No one at the time thought they would be used to persecute bakers forest and photographers.

You can't celebrate think that wedding that they would be used to shut down Catholic adoption, they would be used. To litigate against a Christian hospital that can't do next reassignment surgery. People thought that they would protect it like a customer from being kicked out of the pizza shop just brought their game right but almost never happened but would laugh and you heard about a business owner that I don't serve gay people excite cases you hear about. I don't do gay wedding is a huge difference right so it's if you think for example of the of the controversial law bill in Mississippi where were being told icon Tristan article you wrote giving an accurate overview of it forces the New York Times making it this hate filled antidiscrimination thing that is going to hurt people. This example it said specifically; Central hospital on who they are number with their condition. You take care of them.

But if they say to a doctor want you to perform sex change surgery that Dr. can opt out so what you're saying then is when when these laws were introduced because religious freedoms were the bedrock of our country and everyone understood that we had fundamental religious objections to participating in same-sex court wedding ceremony or with David would dreams if it said forcing a doctor or hospital to engage in sex change surgery of no one. No one looked it in. In that way. And yet ultimately suss it for years. Those who came out of the closet want to put us in the closet, not universally but ultimately it's not a matter of equality but when the rubber meets the road. It's really a minister of equality is it like the simultaneously the definition of discrimination has grown while an understanding of religious liberty has shrunk antidiscrimination statute are now deeming good action as discriminatory and related liberty protections are now being reinterpreted to be merely freedom of worship.

You heard this in the previous administration of the free exercise of religion was regularly redefined as freedom of worship, the basis for religious believers.

Their protection gets smaller, and then the burden the government regulation grow larger and larger applets creating the kind of flashpoint that redeemed.

Whether it's the HHS contraception mandate whether it transgender surgery whether it gay marriage and Baker's part photographers. Those two forces are coming together. So what will we do, just with the soundbite you had to deal with this for years now because of that the nature of communication these days, we were told. Did you have your freedom of religion, but there's not freedom of consequences.

It makes for a good soundbite but doesn't that fundamentally undercut the meaning of freedom of religion. If the government has all your freedom without your faith and were free to penalize you because of it heartily, as I point of the free exercise of religion as we thought. Just a week or two ago.

Now it paternally with drinking different courts at 72 but if there's a public benefit that the school qualifies for. And you say they're not getting it because their religious you are burdening you work analyzing their free exercise of religion. Piercing merely because they are religious, they are not receiving what they otherwise are entitled to under government benefit program indicated with a thief playground surface recycled hired in the same way they fail yet green family.

The owners of Hobby lobby you're free to run your business, how you want to, but if you don't pay for the abortion cover cover causing drug organ to find you millions of dollars a year not free exercise of religion that someone exercising their religion and then being penalized for it as if the very way exactly and then again when not talking about the free exercise of our religion causes us to go sees houses and neighborhoods in an burn them down us that there should be penalties for breaking the law simply practicing our faith. And yes being penalized for it, but we've we've got a few more minutes with Ryan Anderson when we come back on the other side of the breakup. When asked two questions.

One of these debates fruitful. Can we actually change thinking and to why is this chapter in the book chapter called against the new Puritanism the new book debating religious liberty and discrimination. The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown on speaking with Ryan Anderson. One of the voices today, together with Sheriff Yerkes writing along with Ryan and Prof. John Corvino who is on the other side of the argument they have a new book published by Oxford University press. Debating religious liberty and discrimination, and Ryan, debater love to have formal moderate debates in universities and other places like that's what I believe that debates have their place, but when we look at polling we look at the opinions of the younger generation. They seem to have turned in so many ways against values that that we might've taken for granted in the previous generation can this debate be one.

This is just a waste of ink and waste of words or can hearts and minds actually be change on college campuses. You do this face to face before secular media can we win this battle and turn the tide with God thing, with God all things are possible, and there is a there's a role for everyone. Given his or her location so this won't just be one making intellectual argument is often need to be a spiritual component and emotional component, i.e. social media a mainstream media having all of this kind of different component will be a multipronged effort at my contribution on the intellectual side and so we we've engaged in academic and a written debate meant to be accessible to nonacademic even though it's published by Oxford University press. The book is written at a level so that you know anyone who has a high score college education could read the book understand the argument and learn from it and we view our contribution. I don't think I'm gonna persuade kind of be ardent convinced LGBT activists he or she is wrong that I'm right but I think I can weaken the resolve of that person into thinking that I'm stupid and evil and must be punished. So part of the reason of this is to help the people who are in the far other side effect of the far left side of the spectrum that they actually wait wait conservatives. They're not the reincarnation of the KKK of the Westboro Baptist Church doesn't speak for all Southern Baptist been there's a good argument to be made that people who believe that the church is always taught about marriage union of husband and wife shouldn't be penalized in American law that one Artie another audience are the people on our side. We need to help them better understand the issue better articulate the argument. I'm there to be having these conversations that PTA meeting that Little League practices at the water cooler in the dormer with their college friends that we need to be able to help educate our own people on how to think about and talk about issues and thoroughly insert. There are people who are undecided on this issue. People who personally I were in favor of gay marriage, but they're also in favor of the freedom of the Baker edited as a contingent of people with Outlook. Gay people should be able to get married but conservative religious people shouldn't have to give up their beliefs either in so we can persuade people in the middle to stay on these religious liberty debate.

We're not the ones imposing our values on others where responding to what Sharif and I called the new Puritanism the new Puritans in the United States are people thing because we are in favor of contraception you have to pay for because we favor of abortion, you have to cover it on your health insurance and because we're in favor of gay married, you have to make a gay wedding cake that the new former Puritanism that we in the middle of persuadable people in this debate can be one to our site yet and then the three reasons articulated for debating hundred percent with you and in terms of that and and first and foremost we articulate things for those who agree and and and now they're fortified and stressing because they're under constant bombardment and Ryan on the front lines of this day in and night, not by choosing but by calling and yet there are many times where there are nuances of things I'm looking for. Okay, how to articulate this.

What is real arguments and a look at how it what you put out the perfect this little shadow need to write my article.

You said it so your helping many. Yes, I believe, with God's help. The tide will turn with folks like you doing your part.

So thanks so much for the hard work in the effort and even craft. It is a new Puritanism. I think that's a brilliant move, so may God bless your efforts.

Thank you. Appreciate all right again friends. The book debating religious liberty and discrimination. The authors John Corvino Ryan Anderson and Sheriff Curtis okay in the next half hour. I'm going to be speaking with a man and a woman, a licensed therapist and a long time school teacher about extreme discrimination within the NEA, the national education Association, which is America's largest union and what hundred 50 years old something like that little bit more you I think you're going to be shocked when you hear about this, but of I believe beginning next week were going to be making a special announcement about my new book, saving a sick America so hold on before ordering or thinking about that right now because were going to be offering a special blood is as we we do this before new books come out, signed, numbered copies of the first printing. So the first few hundred. We do that for it's kind of a collectors item will be announced that next week but when I research the role of the Bible in American life them all talk about that more next week in conjunction with saving a sick America when I when I saw number one that it was even more influential in our early life and history that I had realize I do it pretty well but the more I dug the more amazed I was when you look at textbooks that were use the printers to learn the English language to learn to spell to learn grammar and when you see the extraordinary amount of Scripture and Christian truth that was in them just for your average American kid learning to read and write in this white, not just in the 1600s and 1700s, but well into the 1800s until, at times even late 1800s. What happened was national education Association and those of like heart and mind of of influence in academia swerved in a more more secular direction that took us away from biblical foundations, not the Bible was not the mandatory religious book of America when we were founded as a nation we did not have a mandatory religion or a state religion. We were vastly Christian in our overall viewpoint and Christian nation in terms of the majority faith of the people. Okay, but, but, in point of fact, in point of fact there there was massive harmony on certain fundamental values throughout much of the nation you had the skeptics and those that opposed we were very much religious people, to the extent we got away from that right and it was those biblical foundations and ultimately cause us to throughout slavery because I was debated from our earliest days. All right.

The fact is, to the extent we see through that. Now we have fallen increasingly into bondage, we find ourselves in that state today right that it's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 66343 here again is Dr. Michael Brown X friends joining us of the 148663 freight 784 I am not paranoid.

I am not a conspiracy theorist looking under every rock for some radical Islamic activist or radical leftist activist radical LGBT activist radical atheist activist and thinking there or a judicial Jews taking over the world. Whichever group is taking over the world or illuminati or the Rothschilds or whoever I don't live like that and I understand is a devil who wants to destroy us by us I mean you and me. Whoever you are, because he hates us because were created in God's image.

Understand that I recognize that. However, while I am not a conspiracy theorist.

While I'm not paranoid. While I I'd I don't have a security entourage of 50 people going wherever I go, because everybody's out to get me on the other hand I'm a realist NIC what's been happening in our society and our country for years and years.

I see where things are going.

We sounded the alarm over and again and finally people recognize more and more people recognize why we have been sounding the alarm so in a moments on I'm going to introduce to guest to you and I think many of you are going to be surprised with what you hear, and this is first hand on the front lines. This is something going on as we speak.

These are realities that that are being lived out and experienced.

Not my projection for 38 years from now. Okay, the NEA, the national education Association is not just a teachers association with people working together for the common good of our children and of course that's the fundamental purpose theoretically, but they are also quite ideologically driven, you might ask, why does the NEA need to take a position on abortion. For example, or on homosexual issues. I thought the goal is just better education for children.

This is one of the most clearly left leaning groups in America. It is highly highly influential and it has an agenda that is hostile to many of the things that you and I hold dear. When I was doing research for my new book coming out in just a few months saving a sick America when I was looking at the Bible in our history and in our education.

In particular, I was struck by how much the NEA drove things to the left over period of years, beginning in the late 1800s and aggressively. Thereafter, there are fine people within the organization.

There are fine people have given their lives to educate our kids, and even if I disagreed with some of the approach or philosophy. I know their motivation is good. Many of them have worked tirelessly.

God knows how many teachers there are in the public and private education system that have given decades of their lives to helping children and they've done it often it very little financial compensation. I appreciate that and admire that, but we must expose a radical leftist agenda for what it is we must expose it in all of its bias and bigotry and intolerance and narrowness and yes, anti-Christian spirit will be right back, and it's the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown to the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Just this week I received an urgent notice from some of my friends who have an ex-gay educators booth at the NEA annual convention national education Association and the NEA was potentially going to ban them throw the booth out because it was allegedly discriminatory. So I want to find out firsthand what's been going on there and and then I want to find a little bit more about the NEA in general.

I'm joined by Susan Halverson. She's retired as a public school teacher for couple years number taught in public schools for 27 years member of the NEA for 26 years national NEA delegate to the national convention for 22 years and the NEA ex-gay educators Caucus chair for 10 years, along with Susan, I'm joined by David pickup himself ex-gay is a Christian licensed marriage and family therapist. He operates to private psychotherapy practices in Dallas and Los Angeles, working primarily with men dealing with unwanted same-sex attraction and he underwent extensive training in authentic reparative therapy under the direction of Dr. Joseph Nicolosi of course is a key leader in that field. Also, Susan and David, great to have you with us today on the line of fire around. All right, so soon tell us first present tense. What's happened this week with the NEA and also explain what your booth is about why you're there and what your messages okay what were actually a crack. Hell, I member when you have a Great idea.

I'm people conjuring the crackhead like a fire I find out okay. Think of the convention that I can be booted out because there are material in the back way L entered the bank to pay that out of a pipe to cut out before you felt right now but happening having actually combed about on it yet and the delegates will discuss and share and then go any where I think there are number 74 number 86 coming up seven and and and what sure what your understanding. Since there's been pressure on you in the past and they have all kinds of other viewpoints represented there. Why are you folks being singled out like this. I am absolutely located crackhead arm. I think it occurred at the very dialogue that your boring day change and if you try and felony ex-gay.

And that goes again, I dialogue that thing perpetrating a lot and that David since this is your own testimony, life experience, since you help men dealing with unwanted same-sex attraction. It must be frustrating for you to see that the bias and bigotry that comes against you in the name of tolerance.

How do you deal with it well.

Great question and argue with that with prudent compartment that always my number one and two motivation and what the truth is that my client, every single one of them including Michael knew the feeling of a cultlike trauma.

Short version of that but nevertheless prominent child childhood that when resolved homosexual feeling, actually, let them dissipate and for some men, they move on to women. In other words, real reparative therapy really does work.

And so when they try to assume that were telling lies in putting regard. While I was there that the we put electrodes on people electroshock therapy training virtual boot camp but all the kind of thing. It I would think intolerable but I don't feel like a controllable because I do believe that we are speaking through you and love and I will think that there could ever be anything about they think about it or not. They think that were establishing hate and all client and nothing could be further so why work that we express our different but they think the only demesne and display intolerant but double conversation with Billy a lot yeah all too often that's that's been the case, it's anything but tolerance are open minded and I want to talk more about the whole issue of reparative therapy separateness from fact and talk about a major legal case you're involved with in in California but split soup what what if you run into at the table in years, pastor, or now what type of interaction. What type of hostility.

Have you encountered from people just coming right up to their practices act crack so people I would but nobody can figure out what the county and I decided last week for sure.

I keep track record quarterly and that the whole point. Everything chair like last year. People don't even mind that it was me. Hardly they don't know me any prosperity you know Jeff very afraid, and delete email. Last year I had from entering the crackhead came back the next day to get a membership at the Frankfurt Plenum.

There were bullying them about it so that I didn't hear the list that I had intolerant people where I was perfect.

After 40. I actually lining report and I you have to be on all of the bullying LGBT Caucus members because they know that because they were laying pink ribbon to get everything back so I went and reported it and it gets Out a laugh.

I haven't had harassment but they come up and just train at scream at Mooney a letter I can even remember everything and very attacking. Do you know it, but do you know soon.

Just off the top you had roughly how many people are in your Caucus and how many people are involved in LGBT Caucus. I remember your heart-to-heart 25 A lot of very people are afraid to join their crate absolutely right, even if they agree with that.

The joint yeah it's extraordinary.

With that amount of people that that's you would be willing to join and that this handful of people. 30 people are such a threat and I don't know myself with the numbers of LGBT Caucus in the church if you're aware, but I don't know yet just generally speaking, though, one of my friends who is a is a professor who taught school teachers and taught administration.

She was telling me whenever she was at the NEA meetings there was an extraordinarily disproportionate representation of the homosexual community.

She said it was it was so much like a 30% representation supposed to 3% of the general population, meaning that the gay activists have found it's important to get involved in the education system for the purpose of of indoctrination, David.

If you had a talk about actual bullying and tolerance what what you experience at the convention this year. Let me give you a prime example. One lady walked up. We were talking about how all people should be tolerant and your people everywhere and honestly now I'm quoting. She honestly looked that up. I don't care about tolerant with women LGBT delicate art will not give you a clue on the kind of thing that comes our way. And again you mentioned false accusations just think that some of these people. David actually believe this that that that you are there kidnapping people and giving them your kidnapping teenagers and giving people shock treatment it to get to gather them think that some people I should believe this and that's what they look at you like this, there kind of belief and pump my opinion and cut up.I don't think there's really anybody with calm down for a minute or two and actually consider the evidence that I don't think that a lot of people are we. But that's the thing about groupthink.

I know you know what think the thing about their and when people move into, the mob mentality.

They tended to spell things off because they're projecting their own psychological issues or monthly on to other people because it doesn't fit with their narrative try to control the narrative piping rolling in there telling us about love and accept in their behavior and not yet sure that some supplies we come back to find out a little bit more about the leftist use of the NEA from Sue and then from David what's happening in California friends.

This is serious stuff.

We will file the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the minor fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown times about discrimination from the NEA national education educators Association discrimination against those who have come out of homosexuality and one that should be something that is known and hurt Sue.

This is not the only position of the NEA though that that represents a strong leftist position. The NEA's been openly pro-abortion.

For example, are pro-same-sex quote marriage shipping with the NEA for over 1/4 of a century of how fundamental are these views to the NEA. It's the largest union in America.

It's what over hundred 50 years old.

How how far left is it really from an insider's perspective. I don't hundred actually run by the Democratic crack one vote for him to be a guarantor were collected by my local or you can be elected by state by resurrecting gets to go. Anyone can put in anyone to talk about. You can think of any gamut that can possibly be, and you can put in it.

I think there's 150 happened here and then asked her at on the floor and voted the problem and yet again the people that are more left viewpoint are the ones that become delegates and get involved and felt because it's one person one vote and down any gamut of leftist things that have nothing education like letter.

You know the board but I think you people feel really only act in charity water with Mark under her right would get involved changes could be made right away because they think out. I don't have to guess so it isn't that remarkable. It's like people complaining about an elected official when they didn't go up both so it's simply a matter for whatever reason, it could be that many conservatives pulled out of some of the mainstream educational system were differed with some of the direction and rather than stick around and try to bring about change media for permitting to homeschooling a Christian school. We didn't see the need to be involved and and that's the problem. Obviously we have to educate the way we see best. But by pulling out we we leave this void and it's something that needs to be addressed.

David you're facing now discrimination on a more overt level in the state of California and there's a battle to push this forward. In other states as well. Some successfully to say that if you're a minor and you have unwanted same-sex attraction so your 17-year-old boy let's say you raised in a Christian home you share conservative moral beliefs but say you were sexually molested by an uncle from the ages of 9 to 11 issue you came to puberty and begin to develop sexually begin to to question things in her confused and find yourself attracted to other boys and you wondered, is this normal or not you're troubled by it does go back to the to the sexual abuse so you want professional counseling. Try to get to the root of this your parents or for that's illegal now the state of California the same state whereby if if you had say to lesbian moms and an eight-year-old boy who identified as a girl they can go for counseling and the Council would tell the boy to dress as a girl use a girl's name and within a couple years to be on hormone blockers to stop the onset of puberty, that's perfectly legal and colorful covering over to my extreme discrimination.

What you doing about that David Garg wrote Michael Percival know that your 100% correct reply noted because I'm one of the many people in the battle. I'm a national law now or the Therapeutic quality and we have picked up. We bought many of you think that but in California led the way. No shock, and if your listeners are in a state of shock themselves or they almost can't believe the state of affairs or if they are aghast that all this than I in a sense, I hope that they are because it really is that bad and it works. Can you imagine a little boy walking in my office in California in any other state that actually bands the therapy that really does work and it really helps them work out these issues and thing know even though you been sexually abused by a pedophile. I can't help you change your feelings because of illegal beyond shocking and that's why those of Laura on the front lines are getting up and we hope the people in your audience and all of the world finally began to be cajoled or or inspired to speak up and going are called I'm happy for people to contact me. I'm sure Sue would very much appreciate people thought that the car to join her talk. Well, and David, are you in the midst of a lawsuit that was California technically directly to two lawsuit. Both are innocent in limbo right now because the US report. For whatever reason we don't know had declined to review the case. We think that once these goes and get more out more dichotomous with the with the rest of the faith. We think that they how can they not hear something important to American but this involved religious right well. Many counts were working under churches are like the therapist will know you got a religious right problem, which is guaranteed to religious right for you in order so we are fighting very hard and we're waiting for the day when the mainstream media a little Bar, we hope, and increase the debate so that eventually the US Supreme Court will will take the it is.

It is extraordinary and is nothing less than discrimination. David and Sue.

II appreciate you both being on the front lines and and here's Chris and I want to do first folks could you pray for David pickup and Sue Halverson is on the front lines. You have no idea how you often feel like you're the only one out there. You have no idea how how often you feel isolated. I I've spoken at events put together by ex-gay leaders and and then we had to do it where the location was announced publicly because of gay activists that were to try to shut it down and then you shut up you have maybe 3040 people meeting and in the stealth. Seriously, that's that's a crazy it's become so were to take this interview the audio clip on YouTube and then Sue and David if you just both email me. Okay, what's the best website to go to. What's the best way to connect her just one or first-run article that we post will will put some links up with the video as well and this way of folks can can call can can stand to do with they know I do be educated properly. Of course we address these things all the time difference. Can I ask you to pray for our guests. Again, for strength for courage as they stand, and that light would triumph in darkness. The truth would triumph over us. God bless you both. Thank you so much for joining me on the air today all right. We are out of time, but were moving from here to Iraq.

Yeah front lines of mission work in Iraq. Why would a young family of Bruce and go over to northern Iraq serve Kurdish people there and beyond that, we come back let's pray this believe the stand together it's time for change in French sure you check out our resources 30% off on all of our DVDs. This we could ask Dr. Brown.org so why would a young family leave America and go settle in northern Iraq to reach the Kurds to reach the Muslims to reach others as well look like from over there stage for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown is my joy to be with you today. Back live on the air after 4 July Michael Brown here. Welcome welcome to the line of fire. Some folks say to me want to just preach the gospel want to get involved in these cultural, moral, social issues, and for me this is part of preaching the gospel same God who laid on my heart to reach out to my Jewish people. The same God who is on my heart to raise up a ministry school to send out laborers to the nations is the same God that called me to address moral cultural issues. This is the world in which we live. God's word has something to say about all of these things for me it's both and but I want you to to understand that a major, major part of my life. For this you don't notice a major part of my life is devoted to taking the gospel around the world. I have had the privilege of being overseas more than 150 trips now around the world to to Asia alone. I've gone old almost 50 times including going on 25 trips to India and admission Asia disease along trips. Sometimes it's a day and 1/2 or two days of travel before you arrive at your destination for a few days of ministry, and then head home so I spent several years of my life overseas with joy just combined with all the trips in one of my greatest joys is to see grads from our ministry school called to take the gospel around the world that were also very blessed very blessed to have our grad surfing all over America America's needs as well, and many are called to be right here for many are called to go and probably the largest number we've had going into any one part of the world in recent years is his number of those called to go to the Muslim world with the gospel in many ways the most dangerous part of the world to minister. If you take out North Korea. But the terms of a larger population group, but most dangerous parts of the world to go and get we have an increasing number of our grads going to serve in the Muslim world. What's it like over there. What are they experiencing.

Why would they leave everything and go and raise their kids in another part of the world really talking about that with Neil and Lindsay Brewer.

They are ideal for grad from our ministry school there both uniquely equipped with their own background in spiritual and natural education. They been serving with the team in northern Iraq. Yeah, we actually have grads who leave the Mesopotamia house of prayer. Think of that. And amazingly, not long after our team started administering their ministry to the Kurdish people suddenly because of that horrific warfare in in Syria. The refugee crisis that suddenly there were hundreds of thousands of refugees flooding into a rock into northern Iraq and there they were, literally, and in their backyard. Many of them nominal Christians.

Many of the Muslims, all of them need in the gospel so you talk with Neil and Lindsay become back first find out how God shape their lives for this how okay just it just Neil today. All right just deal. He'll speak for Lindsay as well find out how God shape them, call them over there what life is like there think you be blessed stirred encouraged and challenged by today's interview will be right back. Her plan by the Expo line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown your voice and more cultural and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown makes a much living in a foreign country in the Muslim world. What's it like it's God doing in why would a family uproot and go over to northern Iraq. My guess Neil Brewer one of our fire school ministry grant to Neil. Welcome to the line of fire. Dr. Bernard good to hear your voice and talk yeah I wish to be face-to-face, but as you know we are doing major office renovation. So, we even there in the same area right now it's it's playful how are you back in the states for we are analog.

Okay, got it and then you head back to northern Iraq. There are just to paint a picture than how hello if you and Lindsay been married we will not regret 12 year 12 years. Are you ready get this next one right. How many kids we are poor. I and what's their age range are ordered Dragon for them. I nail those good job good job alright so so you really did uproot a whole young family to go to northern Iraq. Let's let's first get your own background deal when did you come to the Lord and what brought you the fire school of ministry or my wife and I we both were ready. Kirk fully rendered the button on your when we dared we called Lord whatever you want. Whatever you want to go or complete regular.

From that point.

The fire: ministry 2011 2014 and out of all your fire Lord began to conduct high end and Lindsay has has their own unique background, the kind of ties in with that educationally upbringing. What's that you don't want.

Graphical University or outward. The IA recruiting ground. He was recruited by the CIA quite and she turned him down one God intervened. Want really so so her specialized training background that where the CIA was interested in her. She got her undergraduate degree in political science, but it was in her when she was getting a Masters degree should study international affairs and economic she's incredibly athletic and I think it was a combination of things that the government doll attracted her got her different grandma.

She has this secular education.

It would certainly works well for missionary you get the spiritually focused education acquired school of ministry. When did God begin to drop in your heart, the Middle East. I remember vividly or dark chocolate started at Firestone America morning out worshiping and the Lord showed me a vision of the younger people in the desert and the Lord took me up on a cliff. I just thought all the people tearing up at me and the Lord told me that I lit a hat. I have a little one peer who do not know me but I know Dan and I need you to tell him about me and go from that point. The Lord really put our heart people of the desert and over the next three years.Fontan division. Ultimately we ended up in Iraq I when you first went over to to visit you may have had certain preconceived notions you can know a certain amount about it.

What was the same as you expected. What was different here and right majority of people in the where their perception of Iraq and the Middle East that they're going to be someone on every street corner want to kidnap you or harm and would not dictate.

And I think another couple weeks that we were there, knowing we had thanked her of danger likely we were in danger all the time only by the grace of God jump out of the car and kidnapper Wheatley for and realized after Bobby. Bottom line that got like on the ground.

Of course there danger, place it in the Middle East, but by and large another faith places where people are seeking peace. They want to live in harmony and peace and fill it just a regular steady just like any other place that we were in interesting alright so you go over there. You knew why.

She'll call you kids are young enough you can kinda make this a new adventure for them. They don't they don't know what's coming.

But now you're raising your family in another part of the world.

So Lindsay is not with us now to describe it but but what's it like from the perspective of a mom with with young kids here. Here you worry about your children.

To better educate our children be nice when they play with the neighborhood. Are your children okay riding her bike around the corner and you can't do.

You have never defamed Carter concerned that we would have in America we have their belly different. Note the children that our kids are playing with Arabic they don't speak English and now the corner store manager corner store Arabic promotional and or building relationship with hand the great opportunity for the gospel.

The parent of the children, our kids play with. They come to the house. They don't know Jesus they've never heard the truth about even raising our kids in the context of the Middle East an opportunity for us to share the gospel. Jesus, the folk who never really heard the truth of who you. It is amazing that the people are still people in life is still life in different parts of the world how your kids doing with Arabic and Greg are older. Lila and Addie) Karen Burke taken formal clack of five days a week ago. They're working on their reading and the writing or doing fantastic when we go back and pick Hamburg pewter board have black deeper and he can be going to school like preschool type curriculum will speak Arabic and a little bit English but the kids are doing fantastic. It is amazing the younger they are, the quicker they learn the languages that I remember studying Arabic in in college and grad school. But the first the first college class I had an Arabic were learning, pronunciation, and a lot of it is just for learning Hebrew with hubris and preserve some of the some of the sounds in a sense of the more guttural sounds. It's not preserved in modern Hebrew words were learning try to say these things and you know the professors telling us you know when you're riding the subway or taking a shower you know this practice, practice, really loud to try to do it, and thereafter were struggling for a few days. He said just think of it, two and three-year-old kids right now are printouts of these things perfectly so yeah it it is amazing to have the kids can learn pick things up.

Okay the Muslim world. Obviously it is not monolithic, it's going to be different in Afghanistan versus Saudi Arabia versus Pakistan versus Indonesia.

We understand that, but what you are encountering so far in the Muslim world. What percentage of the of the people that you're dealing with who are Muslims or fairly devout Muslims near the men praying five times a day or a participating in the feast of Ramadan. What percentage of the most is your meeting or fairly devout?" We are I would. 25 Markham Art about an air poker lived underneath.

I packed three years. You would think they would be the most hardened of the gospel and they would be the most devout mother, but the opposite affect the devil and overplayed his hand yeah and yeah heavy form of violence is not put people away until they're not devout not bring back the day that they care more about your family can do about affecting Ramadan today associate associate Isis with their religion and and therefore it's driving them away from Islam or did they think this is not really Islam. Isis is not really as long as they thought every folk and most they were very in the beginning I did represent his but now you're harder on anyone not a lot of big younger folks 30 years and under there, the one you are so turned off by devout Islamic. The at their discount swinging between agnosticism and lukewarm Islam yeah got it so your viewpoint again.

You've only been in Iraq for a few years you have limited interaction even within Iraq urine. One particular location you certainly are not an expert on Islam or the entire Muslim world. So I'm couching everything here in my questions, but from your viewpoint interacting with these Muslims is Isis more representation of real Islam or and therefore should not really into that your lukewarm or is it a distortion as of his love, just your own limited perspective and interaction will get you taken.

That will be right back. Also thought the travel ban present trauma muscles and save what more the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 8663 dear Jim is Dr. Michael Brown I'm back with Brewer, who is one of our fire missionaries serving in northern Iraq you will find out about fire school of Ministry had to be trained, equipped and sent out, give us will just go to fire � school.org right we've we've now been joined by Lindsay as well.

So going to put Lindsay on for a moment. Neil and his wife Lindsay and their four kids, a Lindsay, we almost we almost dumped him on how long he's been married, you have to work on that little bit only off by two years. Set this up at all right okay but the upfront probably. So what they listen to boast about you all all the time.

Lindsay, did you have any trepidation.

Mom can can be more protective over the kids and Carrie carry the tenderness that only a mom can't dream any trepidation relocating to know the rock was for the kids are warmer marital I hear from the Lord with Iraq oh I cannot hear from the Lord. Current out current Eric application or or wearing a red how my girl.

The only thing called parent that can be uniquely difficult and wanting her current and just being there being unique element.

So how's that turned out the girl you're doing great here, only groundbreaking and anything and like to counter that Eric Ackley get great Carolina great Lee Lee. We talked anything, not caring that we have our bathroom counter and we have not earned it and what would you say from your perspective are some of the most redeeming qualities about the people you've met there. Every nation has strengths and weaknesses. America's strengths and weaknesses. What have you found to be some of the most redeeming qualities about the people that you're living with and meeting there in Iraq. All school are welcome. They will drop everything that they weren't going are welcome here now see confirming our work. If any need to learn here have lost lately everything will hone sheltering invaluable children in her heart very hungry and gave away one, and one little burner panic and a can now come together and will take care home and you sign that there is a stronger family emphasis that they may have them.

We often have in America being so scattered and in so many different places at once will air for all alive. Learn sheltering often. I have all four multiple lateral and one rifle being a completely different any elite have my children get at our life. Clay asked my mom that children can take greater honor and not Eric.

Those present maintain and gather very interesting, very interesting right Neil back to the question I was asking right before the break again. I know you not an expert on Islam. I know that you have limited experience in the Middle East and that you haven't been there for 30 or 40 years and lived in many different Muslim nations but interacting with Muslims near your own study reflection from what you can tell, does Isis come closer to legitimate Islam or is Isis a horrific distortion of legitimate Islam. Yeah you Telstra question outsmart okay big CalPERS bought.

There is no genuine question of the third, no consistent in the calm is no consistency in the heavy, and there can't be gathered if not divinely. I know it it'd it is not in the same way that that Scripture is fired by God. Though given that there is to be a can authentic expression of Islam as I see so many different sex so many different division so on one the blanket answer would be no Isis does not represent true Islam. But then I would very quickly say because there is no true Islam. There is no authentic noted.

I think what I does it.

They walked out the progression of Islam to its logical conclusion. If a man sinful and fallen an un-regenerated allowed to be displayed out of Mohammed like he began omission of key modeling itself after Christianity and Judaism, but then it as time goes on. He leaned on the sword more begins to conquer more. So I think that's what you see when I given man opportunity to indulge his flesh.

He will end up looking like I but Aristotle.

Many people that we see who were there so they despise Isis and what they've done. Their religion and to the region of the Middle East, but to answer your question, no I don't think there's an authentic note, Islam, and I believe that Isis would not be a good caricature of the millions of Muslims around the world and of course there's constant debate about that which is true Islam. Is there a true Islam. Does it have different expressions over the years but certainly Isis is taking certain truths found within Islam are certain values fouled Islam and then as fallen human beings, taken them to a logical extreme. The good news is Jesus is moving in the Muslim world we come back I will hear some testimonies about Jesus appearing in the refugee camps and dreams to the Muslims about how legitimate these conversions are realistic for serving in northern Iraq will also talk about our president present trump in the travel ban from certain countries cover restrictions how that's playing out as well as use views on the interfaith dialogue that Dr. White had with the conservative Muslim early this year it's the line of fire with your host activist and author, international and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 6634 through here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I am speaking with Neil Lindsay Brewer serving as fire missionaries in northern Iraq, serving people there humanitarian ways, bringing the gospel to them. Massive refugee camps now literally in their backyard because of the crisis in Syria, many refugees fleeing there some nominal Christian. Some Muslim all of them hearing the gospel as the opportunity is presented. Neil and Lindsay, if you had a share some stories of people you've met who have had genuine encounters with Jesus. Jesus appearing to Muslims in their dreams and we always hear about this, but you're there, which happening is is is really happening and can you give me some examples, yeah� But I can order a great sure thing a woman I met in a wreck On the character will regularly visit this woman asked Linda she was with Dr. no, but, what's wrong, follow Jesus back in place and I believe you and the women. The woman looked at length.

Jesus, I know him. I love and salinities that telling more to the woman invited Lindsay into her cat in the living wall and began to tell him to the store that she was burned very badly. Her legs will burn some years ago and many other women were unaltered.

An explosion in our house by what many women were in the hospital with burns as well and one by one the women women began to die to this woman knows that she is next. Though she drift off to sleep and she see the man approaching her an inner vision man dressed in white.radiant light coming out from him and she just instinctively knows that it needed Jesus walked up to her and he said come follow me in the moment that I can't can't walk like the does Jesus turn, the woman said the hem of his garment rubbed up against my leg and I could stand up to follow Jesus and Jesus a leader down to a river and Jesus begins to wash her leg in the water. She wakes up in the training.

She's completely healed feelings.

The hospital and so she tells Lindsay she said how can I ever thank Jesus.

And if he says and where can I get some of this water for Lindsay Lindsay Pelzer. I have living water and part of me, Jesus, let me tell you about the Lincoln share the gospel with them.

She praised receive receive Jesus right then and there lost praying.

The problem that had her literate her ear which she could hear a lot of pops open and she can hear now you depending on how church meeting, bringing her children with her, she brought her stick. One of the home on gathering up beautiful story of Jesus revealing himself but then what in a way, allowing us to partner with something that he's doing and and now she is walking with Jesus and credible first first hand testimony and you're saying she was so badly burned the others who are also Brideshead had died and she she realized she was next to their children discard her leg start incredible incredible listen.

I don't doubt a syllable of that we know so many like story so that's that is one of the coolest that it that I've heard.

I have to say and out so much needed the refugee camps.

It's a human tragedy so much displacement so much loss of life so much suffering and yet God is using that to reach people with the good news okay lot more to come with my guest, Neil Brewer, together with his life.

Lindsay serving in northern Iraq part of a team we have there of fire missionaries serving the people bringing the gospel find out about our missions work notifier � international goth for Rieke. The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown, my guest right now you ratify school ministry for another school of fire to school.org serving out with the team in northern Iraq is pretty wild to be part of some, like the Mesopotamia house of prayer you know would small groups there in northern Iraq.

Ministry to the Kurds and others, but with the refugee crisis. Neil suddenly there is this massive gospel audience. People in need with nowhere to go and in your backyard what it one of the living conditions for these refugees very depend on how long and there have been there for three years at the beginning of Isis that claim, the more established people at set up little corner stores in the campus bread shop places we can buy vegetables more order the Newark campus where folks are just now leaving Modell and coming into his death more bare bone is nothing there that for the tent that you live in, and then whatever the UN is able to give you the terms of a blanket, a map asleep on now course through the water like that and you and your actively ministry the team is actively ministering in these different camps that you have an idea of the numbers of people involved in terms of how they rescue the yeah we heard upwards of 800,000 and that within 2 Hour Dr. from our house, and credible that many of these people nominal Christians, are they open to the whole gospel message. If it nominal Christian. Yeah, nominal Christian. Are there among the refugees. Nominal Christians as well as as Muslims. Now there are Christian camp. I can think of one in particular but we spend 99% of our time in. Mudroom For Christian living within the bottom.right sneer rights and most of the Moses you're saying are not devoutly be 75% of them are not devout and some of them less devout because of the oppression of Isis. This is that's Islam.

They want nothing to do with the correct right right here right from the perspective of where you live now what prison trumpets done in terms of the travel ban six countries that were previously under list compiled by the Obama administration that if refugees want to come from those countries. As the Supreme Court ruled that they they need to have a very specific connection a very specific family or business connection that would bring them over for fear of terrorists infiltrating the goal being to do better vetting you. You put out a video not long after that from overseas and your videographers will talk about that in a moment, but you wont get a message out about the gospel you want to send a message to Americans about the friendly Muslims reaching out to them does does a move like this from our president of C concern about national security. Does this have a negative impact for you on the mission field.

This is the kind of thing you can explain say we don't want ice is coming in our country.

I'm sure you can understand that house is playing out quicker nurturing grandma for now we have people asking her how could America.

We got a miracle (America abandonment right here and fill we had to record how grand the political made by one man represent the church in America represent entertainment as your friend.

We try to get in Clarksville, much as we could. So how did you hear about it.

It will everyone at cell phones and everyone had asked her to the Internet you are living in a refugee camp. Amazing, but so it it it spread like wildfire.

Now, so they took it as the president United States, saying we don't care that your needs. We don't care that you refugees you're not coming in our country because we don't want your kind here is that they say how they took it right exactly how the goddess got it.

And obviously that that's not the overall intent and then everyone has to deal with what you're dealing with the government's dual security in the church is still without region.

How do we remix compassion with security and and all these issues didn't ultimately push back the gospel work for you or you be able to overcome that now. It didn't push back the gospel work, provided a different offering to begin with.

We would try to turn the conversation. Dr. Jeter and that we different herself from the politics and baby it doesn't represent the church and why. Let me tell you what the church. Let me tell you what the kingdom of God. And how that different from the kingdom of America yet and ultimately when you talk, especially with refugees who very much welcome fellowship and interaction and who are displaced and hurting people when they see you care about them.

I think that's the latticed message of all. Right right they can hear what we say with him now, but they're not being a living testimony. It's just going to be word what, what, when they see that our love for them. It then you and it's supernatural even that's one there impacted did ask you why you hear with your family what you move over from America to live here, however, got out that we don't don't pictures on my felling of my children appear not with me and look at what why did you come here were trying to leave America like you come here and then at the perfect Albert Delgado, God love Iraq incredible right. I know that you listen to interfaith dialogue that the discussion I have with Dr. James White about his interfaith dialogue with a conservative Muslim Imam critics ecology hottie is Imam Esther Codey and of course James would say he he is a committed conservative muscle but not a jihadist. Many are debating those issues even as we speak now, but you you you listen to the interview I had with Dr. White and two things, you know, uniquely living in Iraq.

You know how ugly how murderous how horrific radical Islam is, you also know how the great majority of Muslims do not share those sentiments from your perspective as a missionary in the Muslim world.

Was it a wise thing for James to do to have civil discussion perhaps to to bring walls down and maybe to un-demonize certain people and therefore Christian samosas talk face-to-face or is this just being a useful idiot for Islam and now you you you basically desensitize people to the dangers of radical Islam. What was your take right. I love Gregor Riker regular, a beautiful example of who we are very courts are supposed to be. Why we come with love not accompany humility and love and I'm debating and arguing. It's not like love the person in a margin. Are you still there Dr. yet. Okay this is what we do all the time we sit down with people who are on the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of belief and faith and we have a choice. I am even argue with you about who Mohammed is and what the Quran aired and how how evil and violative expression of Islam and what noncommittally or we can talk about the we can talk about the kingdom of God and we can talk about what that looks like and I can expect for that for you. Even with how I interact every human being. My tone of voice, the way to honor and an individual created in God. The last thing we want to do it care somebody down what we can prove a theological point, not to convict somebody of anything at it, make convinced their mind, but if not lead to a genuine conversion of heart and I will II thought it didn't like doing you'll have you yourself interacted with devout Muslims.

She said maybe 75% are not devout. The mentor not praying five times a day and many of the younger people are even more alienated from Islam because of Isis as you live there in northern Iraq have you interacted still with very conservative Muslims as well. Our background in the middle of Motorola in individual home and had lunch with mom who I know were leaving prayers for I in them affect our young man who lived their entire time through I and are now starting and I can tell your the best group that we everything and finally fit down and we discussed G we don't want to talk about Carranza, would I want to talk about Mohammed talk about you.let the truth because they've never heard before. When we crossed the boundary into debate and argument extravagant and good, but we can weaken introducing something could grand that they've never heard before. Something inside as long as you like friends since perspective missionary living in the Muslim world will be right back in the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown got just left with my friend ministry colleague grad from our ministry school Neil Brewer's life Lindsay and for conserving Iraq and by the way, you might differ on the interfaith dialogue approach. Whether it's good or not. I like it or not, I've no issue with that.

My issue is that the almost hysterical attacks that, the useful idiot charges and the inability to see the whole purpose of this being to bring walls down. So the gospel can be shared.

Neil what what misconceptions do you think many Americans may have about the Muslim world in the moment.

All Muslim Christian and that in turn take Jesus. This is a gross misconception was always the reality from your experience, the reality is that for years century Muslims and Christians have coexisted even in most up until 20 years ago 15 years ago about Christian June meeting. Muslims believe next to each other on the gross misconception.

We have so many people when they meet us. They find out that the Christian they go out of their way to honor not only us as individuals but are they because they know that in the West.

They are perceived as Christian hater and distrust Jesus else is they don't know who he is and of course they posted a different being the son of God. But Jesus is important figure to revoke that point to the heart and lives in my heart I love you. Afterwards we would stop living heart but I appreciate what you're saying but they they honor Jesus Jesus. They hold him up as a revered man of the religion. So this idea that they they hate and despise our fall that's course there there is the more militant Islam. We understand it without denying the terrorist threat were not denying the evil as it were, not deny how it traces itself back to to Mohammed and probably we understand that much about that earlier but it's kind of the broad brushed viewpoint and in the thing that frustrates me. Neil is that the idea the assumption is that all Muslims will lie and tell you anything to deceive you and the point to the practice of tequila etc. and there are circumstances where a Muslim will lie in though do it for the religious purposes but you did your average muscle that you're talking to is always good ally admit it's a bit of a frustrating situation in here. You have someone to respond honestly they do and you say why can't believe you. You live with the people you get to see them first hand what would you say about that yet.

That gross conception of a million people that are being generalized and characterized with the statement that is dangerous ground to tread on.

We see the folks that we interact with refugee camp in Moco. They are victims of Islam in the same way that the folks with God and terrorist attack are victims of the bay have been raised up under an ideology that is leading them away from God, but all the while preaching them that they are pleasing God by doing their yeah and that against the greatest victims of radical Islam or fellow Muslims. That's the greatest number of casualties and intestine attacks. Yet you you have an interesting name for your your ministry found that your videography work which is iron kite one with that name, but the Lord spoke to Bob and Bob about starting a film company help my family through the financially difficult years of being a biological and though I my response to the Lord would out, but only if you breathe on. I want you anything that you're not gonna believe not and I have this image in my mind of a kite made of iron that unless God breathed on it completely useless not going anywhere but in God breeze on and it becomes supernatural and it sort and I look at what our family doing now.if you're not breathing on everything that were doing. You don't want you suggested that you see he has really got it living proof. If folks want to find out about iron kite look at some of the work you're doing to get behind you as a family. What's the best way to do that that good iron pipe international.com I iron kite spelled like it sounds iron kite international.com and deal is if someone feels a calling on their lives must be trained for ministry work in the states overseas what you tell about fire school all fire school. It is responsible for everything that we are doing now that everyone I talk to you now have an inkling of a desire to go to Bible school. I'm going in the fire school it would instrumental in equipping me and Lindsay and what were doing now you guys are wonderful fruit.

Your life is shining brightly for the Lord and we know that goes, confuse your family in amazing ways to reach the Muslim people of Iraq and beyond, hate, grace and favor to you and everything I do have an iron kite.

God bless you� Good talk all right friends I I hope you is blessed by that interview is as I was stirred encouraged that and I asked if at the end about iron kite not just to give a plugged iron kite international.com not just give a plug and to encourage you to go there and watch some of the videos and consider prayerfully supporting their work, but also the say hey if God could make that iron kite fly Scotty called his family of four husband Bible school graduate wife Masters degree graduate if God could call this family overseas mom dad for kids and use them to reach Muslims in Iraq, he can't he can fulfill his calling on your life if you can make this iron kite fly, you can make your iron kite fly so if you know there's a calling lean into it.

Pray and then do try to do today what about next to how Mike just to which United you today to Moscow take care of itself and is Jesus.

It is enough trouble waiting there for tomorrow do which you know how to do today walk in obedience.

Today, be fruitful today serve God today obey his prompting today and then tomorrow will be where you're supposed to be.

If you if you obey the GPS.

The defined GPS today. Tomorrow you will be on track for the next day so let me encourage you if you're called to be trained in a hands-on, intensive way. Consider our ministry school.

It is for the serious is for those called to leadership as it is intense, focused environment.

So go to fire � school.org to find out more and pray 14 we've we've got a good-sized team in the northern Iraq serving giving themselves. We have others serving in other parts the Muslim world. We can't share where they are for security reasons. One of our grads was killed years back by Muslim terrorists on the mission field that we have only seen an upsurge of grads going to the mission field since that is happened. That's the kind of dedication that we have as followers of Jesus. He friends will equip you and to strengthen you in our ministry this month is just doing something special. We hope this will be a blessing to you, but I've gotten numerous DVD series lengthy teaching series targeted single messages bakes a whole video DVD library. Everything is 30% off her morning TV library this month but asked Dr. Brown.org to find out more with the blessing of the Lord