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Why I Still Have Hope for America

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown
The Truth Network Radio
September 26, 2017 4:21 pm

Why I Still Have Hope for America

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown

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September 26, 2017 4:21 pm

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I'm about to have a fascinating dialogue with you. Minutes jointly right here on the line of fire stage for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice is moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown is in a striking. I was not aware of this when I wrote my open letter to Miley Cyrus but she wrote a book in 2007 called Miles to go so what should be about 14 years old Aaron in my article I reference served 10 years ago so that would be when she was 14, and according to woman named Donna posting us on Facebook in the book miles to go.

Miley Cyrus said that things that made her sad were people who don't know Jesus and one of her goals was to read the entire Bible. While hey friends Michael Brown here delighted to be with you today. I got some good news and exciting interview to have 866-34-TRUTH's number to call anything you want to ask me talk to me about question beyond challenge and beyond get clarification on that's number 866-34-TRUTH 7884. So here's the good news and a lot of stuff to talk about happening in the world around us, but first the good news. I wrote an article own lesson two weeks ago.

Why won't they debate me or even dialogue with me who the they who might talking about growing up if if I would say so. But they say.

My father who was a lawyer in the New York Supreme Court almost became a judge before he passed away in 1977 he was and who is they who are they don't just give a nebulous statement like that. So who war that they in why won't they debate me or even dialogue with well other public figures. Journalists TV personalities others bloggers where they are cool. Challenge me or who will say hey we want to talk and dialogue in them when I reach out to them. Silence. For example, for example, a gay Jewish man whose active in Jewish teaching and spreading the knowledge of Judaism while being openly homosexual so obviously working more liberal sides of Judaism. He posted some outrageous things challenging me on my twitter feed and I support let's talk, radio show ceramic increase reply from us is by God's grace of God, a great platform ready. I'm inviting you onto my platform.

I give you exposure.

No possible to let let's talk privately. We talk by phone silence or pebble Montel Williams listeners happen with him and he's an active, unable to be participating, but I wrote a letter about his segment on Megan Kelly last year he wrote a response to it.

I would response to his response, my PA contacted his publicity guy and Montel said yes I will come on the air with you. Let's discuss these issues and then here's I can to reflect six weeks and it is a family commitment.

Some of the things that will do it great. We follow-up silence.

There was a woman didn't know who she was but a liberal professor at University writing for the very liberal Huffington Post and wanted to interact with white evangelicals who voted for Trump and even though I did vote for president trump with reluctance. I said okay great I responded to her article point by point you in a lengthy article I wrote a lengthy response. I said let's let's interact. I tweeted her before and after the article, let's interact my PA reached out to her and another ministry reached out to her because I published on their website.

All inviting her to dialogue. She said I want to talk to people from this perspective, I sit here I am.

Silence well on that changed last week when I began to dialogue with it an individual gentleman who had written an article that I took exception to. I would response to him and tweeted to him and said, hey, I shown talk is absolutely so little bit later this hour to be joined with humanist science writer faulted the Methodist Church using the Bible as a moral guy. Fascinating will be right back where we will file the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the minor fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown went okay question question when under pressure during finals week. Some things like yeah probably probably on pressure maybe getting your list papers in finals and things like that. Have you been under more pressure. Since you been out of college or university, probably so general life. I would say is tougher than college or university. These my own experience through through undergrad and grad school that real life Seesmic Israelites going on college campus, but life after college, university to me is more challenging, tougher, more ups and downs, more issues to deal with more responsibilities than when your college university where a lot of the pressures have to do just with peer pressure, relational issues that have to do with the pressure of study and learning and things like that but generally speaking, you don't have as many responsibilities then as you do afterwards if you're married with family. Maybe you're working really hard on a job with high expectations may be other things in life we have to make decisions. Putting that living at home anymore and things like that were living on a dorm in a dorm setting anymore, so the others pressure and stress in college, university, I think there's more pressure and stress in real life. All well these days.

These days we have to coddle our students because we don't want them to be under too much pressure now for all my millennial listeners that despise this, coddling, good for you since the waited show a generation what it means to be a responsible adult to be a man to be a woman take sinks on and to say hey we can get through this 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 784 is the number to call.

I bring this up because there is an article on the college by Jeremy Beeman for the University of Mobile therapy dogs chocolate Play-Doh universities offer ways to cope with finals you want to play with the Play-Doh over here because you've got an advanced physics final yet.

I know it's tough who gnawed there.

So let's go back to things that gave you peace and joy as little children now that you are on your way to graduate from college and university.

Now that you are taking demanding tests in finals. How about if we do building blocks to gather.

Maybe you're about to get your architectural degree may be about to graduate with honors at, but now you can use the building blocks and build because of finals are too much pressure.

Yeah, I have a problem with this. I have a problem with this. Jeremy writes at the University of Pennsylvania. For example, several different student groups offered various study breaks including a Zumba class a videogame stress reliever and a chocolate and chocolate labs event the daily Pennsylvania reports student organizers did not respond to the college fixes request seeking details annual tradition at University of Illinois offer students are reading day base of classes.

University hosts a variety of nonmandatory events held aimed at helping students study and destress out of the wood goes into that. Maybe that's healthy. Append states destress vest included origami folding we gaming brain massage music and more.

According to the University's website.

University of Michigan offered Play-Doh and more.

An event billed as a way to destress before final exams. According to its Facebook page of the relaxers at the event included glitter bottles, Legos and dominoes take Legos even better than building blocks specially like a set up your architect or something like that big boulder okay now let let me in all fairness in all fairness, put a positive construction on some of these things right. Hey, everybody needs to relieve stress. Hey, it's a healthy thing you're about to get into a very intense time role your your weeks of study in preparation to culminate. Some people do well with tests. I used to love taking tests.

We had other family members that despise taking tests. For some it's nerve-racking for some exhilarating process does take got a do it, but yeah, it's if it can be stressful if you don't study well or if you have to cram or for working a job, and schedules busier you overload yourself with credits or whatever it is. Yeah I understand to be stressful so hey let's just destress will do better on the tests.

For example, if you get a good nights sleep before taking tests. You're apt to do better.

Your mind will be sharper than if you hardly sleep at all and how many of used to do that you cram all might barely sleep and then the next day your brains in a fog because you weren't sleeping your how to rely on on extra caffeine to get you through and after week you ready to collapse. So yeah, if there ways okay everybody that's true discover the sisters of physical activity and get our minds off test work for a few hours and and actually strengthen our brains by doing physical activity. Yeah I I understand that I everybody so tense. Every okay take the pressure off.

I'm in India every year. And depending on what time of the year. Been there many times children would come up to me and it's a uncle which is the affectionate, respectful way of addressing uncle.

Could you please pray for me.

I have tests this week and and there's tremendous pressure among those in the schools to do well on the tests and and so on. I understand that and if you could help them all right to table you take her mind off test for little while, and were just going to do something else.

I I understand I understand the logic behind that but some of plays into the entire mindset.

Some of this plays into the entire cultural mindset with micro aggressions and safe spaces and you can't do anything to upset the student and they have to be able to have their safe space and trigger warning if the class is going to mention something that could potentially be offensive or something like that and they look you got real life, yet real life ahead that you got real life with real challenges and end Play-Doh is not do it for you not look at some people what they have like this Baldy squeeze or something like that that's that's distressing and did a little thing. I am just a place to focus helpful in that regard. Keep your Plato, but what I'm saying is this is preparing for life you how are your absolutely right. The pressure and stress of going through bait military basic training or just a wee bit more than prepared for college exams there a whole lot of things that are stressful and challenging at an end and Play-Doh before your finals as I can prepare you for your boss sit you down and in the offices you are underperforming and if you don't turn things around or out of a job young man young woman all right can I just get my Play-Doh please.

Would it be okay Mr. boss of if I just brought my therapy dog in with me because it helps me deal with stress or yeah you get a job go from college to Wall Street all and bring the Play-Doh with you into the pressures Wall Street yet real from college into the military do they allow therapy dogs and the front lines of Afghanistan, a Myla know you.

That's the point.

That's the point. There is a a babying of the students. There is a babying citizen. Hey, let's get through this.

You guys are first class. Let's get through this is why you came to school shine on these exams that that's part of the growth is thriving under pressure. Not now, check this out and again the many fine millennial's out there that that are solid citizens that are that are mature further rage that are contributing to society.

God bless your great examples. God bless you and some of you that are struggling are struggling because the way been raised by overindulgent parents who don't want to ever lose did never want to get a bad grade school hydrant sports leagues were no scores were So you wouldn't have your feelings hurt. It's not surprising if you're lagging emotional development.

But according to so the British a telegraph publication, millennial's do not consider themselves quote grown-up until they are 27 according to a new survey. Yeah, more than 55% said that feel like a fully mature adult depended on reaching particular milestones in life. According to the survey conducted by nationwide current-account so obviously over the UK just over 15 22% of the 2000 of surveyed said that people felt mature when they have their own children where further. A further fifth, 21% said it was when they moved out of their parents home and yet it's increasingly common for young people to live in their parent's homes longer and increasingly common to wait to get married, only to have kids visit this then saying we are putting off possibilities of adult life and maturity model Play-Doh to make the field for cleansing by the light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown your voice and more cultural and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown make all these crazy changes. Maybe it's time for them.

That was the voice of Whoopi Goldberg speaking at the glad media awards. Glad was originally an acronym for the gay and lesbian alliance against defamation. I changed it to the gay lesbian alliance against disagreement because they really want to censor those with opposing voices and my friend and colleague Peter LaBarbera suggested on your yesterday that we could call this the gay lesbian alliance advancing this information and Whoopi Goldberg is is basically laying the line down in terms of hate trans activism. This is right. This is normal. Those who oppose that no basis for the words is not a matter of hey live and let live is not a matter of you have your opinion of mine is a matter of you don't have the right to your viewpoint because it is bigoted and hateful, this is Michael Brown listening to the line of fire, 866-34-TRUTH. Let's listen to comedy channels. Trevor no more Trevor, no, as he speaking at the same glad media awards in New York on May 6. I'm honestly honored and humbled to the estate because I know like many people I haven't always been the most open-minded of hats.

Unconditioned my conditioning. Growing up in a country in a world where I was told gay people once people but everyone. Everyone think a lot of everyone can change everyone can become.

If you just listen. It's scary, but is lost there is the journey most of the people in this room have gone through so we salute you with the daily show. We thank you for allowing us into your world, which suggests our world see the thing that troubles me with all this thing that troubles me is that on the one hand the one hand, I appreciate people say, look, there's diversity different.

I do has to be gay eyewitness to be transgender.

This is the way I was created that's that's what they would believe it needs to be more accepting of me and don't condemn you some terrible center on this being true to who I am like you're being true to who you are being heterosexual. Whatever II understand that I appreciate that. I appreciate where they're coming from. Simpson had. I thought being gay. For years I prayed against it and this is who I am and once I realize there's nothing wrong with this and I can have a healthy relationship with some of the same sex, and we have a wonderful life together. Why would anyone reject to decipher religious bigotry. I understand the viewpoint and the mindset I understand if LGBT activists are simply fighting for it to them was a matter of basic equality, basic human respect and dignity. I understand from their perspective. The problem I have is that you are not allowed to have another perspective you are not allowed to differ. You are not allowed to say no. According to my faith, homosexual practices wrong or according to my own beliefs a kid should have a mom and a dad or according to my own studies. It's uncertain why some people feel the transgender we should still look to see if there's a way to help them grow out of this.

No, no you are not allowed to have a contrary viewpoint.

I mentioned a couple weeks ago after giving a talk at a college in North Carolina and it was not in the heart of Charlotte or Raleigh.

One of the bigger cities this a little bit maybe an hour out from there's a bit more rural area and I gave a talk on homosexuality is an innate and immutable. They are having a series of different presentations and their and other viewpoints presented up to. Then it was time for my everyone was very respectful, including those who oppose my viewpoint room was very disrespectful. There is nothing disruptive that happened on the campus which I was pleased to see and I commended them for the respect with which they treated me in the midst of our differences. But what was interesting was at lunch we we sat with a professor there professor of of religion and ethics.

This what he teaches. He teaches religion and ethics is also a pastor and he told at the University. He could not say that Jesus opposed homosexual practice. If you scriptural basis for historical basis for his views as a first century Jew. They believe it. If that was his conviction which it is. He said he couldn't say that in his class even while teaching religion and ethics. He couldn't say rural North Carolina campus. I asked him to say the opposite if he believed Jesus affirmed homosexuality and he said yes that he could say, but he couldn't say that he posed as is nothing to do with what the Bible says it is nothing to do with religious truth or history of religion or anything like that. It has to do with what's acceptable speech and what isn't acceptable speech and more and more and more were being told that simply differing with LGBT activism is a good reason for us to be silenced and perhaps lose a job, lose income and whatever else might follow from there. There many saying absolutely right bigots like you belong in the closet and this is no different than saying that someone is black is inferior or solicits Hispanic or Asian is inferior. This is no different. This is no different than the Nazis. Same Jews were were parasites that should be destroyed. This is no different as CC. In other words, if I say, you know, really think it should have a mom and dad and it's best to be joined to their biological mom and dad. If possible you want to set something up intensely from birth that separates them from from from mom and dad when their other choices. It's it's bigoted. It's no different than being a Nazi mean that's how extreme things of God that we know this for years been documented for years is just getting more extreme and you get that when you hear from some of these major media people an end.

By the way, even though Pres. Trump has not been strong on gay and lesbian issues thus far, if anything, he has been favorable to gays and lesbians in terms of Executive Order that was passed a couple months back, maybe three months back that reaffirm what would prison Obama had done in the federal workplace and in his last Executive Order falling short in that way he's looked at as the ultimate enemy of LGBT people reporting Jeff sessions Atty. Gen. with people like Ben Carson and Mike pence around him so you you you don't even have to be aggressively against to get negatively branded hey friends, we come back.

I am going to speak with Clay Nath is an award-winning journalist and he is a humanist.

He wrote a book called free God now my other writing, so regular talk in a moment of believer to humanist and see why we feel how we feel. We remind you if you don't get my weekly emails which will tell you all the articles of written all the videos we've put out, which will link you to special discounted resources and special testimonies.

Sign up today go to asked Dr. Brown a SK DR Brown.orc sign up for the free emails today and I'm to send you a free e-book when you do seven secrets of the real Messiah, I'd sign up today. Get your free e-book will be right back with Clay Nath. It's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 86643 here again is Dr. Michael Brown is much for joining us a on the line of fire.

So a couple weeks back I came across an article in the Huffington post written by Clay Farris Nath taking issue with United Methodists church for saying based on the Bible and church teaching. They would not recognize the consecration of a lesbian bishop and Mr. Neff's humanist took them to task for that saying it's wrong for the church use the Bible is a is a moral guiding gave reasons for refill contradictions in the Bible and hypocritical use of the Bible by the church. So I wrote an article response and then tweeted to him and said he would like to come on the radio and discuss it.

He said sure thing so I'm delighted to have this opportunity to talk with Clay Farris Nath award-winning journalist and the humanists science and religion correspondent. He's been a Tokyo correspondent for United press International and a freelance reporter for national public radio, a Clay great to have you on the air. The city thanks for joining us, Dr. Michael Brown pleasure to be with you. Thanks for inviting me all might module. You have no idea how nice it is to talk with some of the difference was because most folks don't want to talk I love you run into the same thing but the light of the opportunity so I speak only for myself but I feel delighted to have an opportunity to speak with somebody about differing worldviews. If we can exchange ideas, we can't really embrace each other's humanity. Yeah we we agree on that, sir.

So just a couple minutes in this first segment, which is short to find out more about yourself. Did you grow up as you minister, atheist, agnostic reset developed over time. My parents were Christian but they let go of their attachment to religion before I was born so were nominally Christian, but I grew up without any religion, in particular – perhaps account for my lifelong fascination with God it all right so what is it that fascinates you with religion as the self-professed humanist. Well first of all growing up, I felt a bitter envy for my friend. I had Muslim friends, Jewish friends and Christian friends and they all seem to have that activity. It was meaningful for them and even sometimes fun and I was left out of it. So at that point there was curiosity mixed with a little ended but as I became an adult and look more deeply into it I felt fascinated that people in different parts of the world and sometimes even different parts of a particular city have such profoundly different beliefs about the nature of the world we live in, and indeed you feel that any of this is positive or since you don't believe in the creator God as revealed in the Bible is a just couple believing delusions.

What a very different question. Okay, first of all I think I think religion has been a positive force in human affairs or many millennia. Although it is also been a time terrible force and I think today it's a mix of both. But I work with religious people every day who are out there doing great, good, and I have immense respect for them and for their belief but I'm not anti-religion per se. What I propose is what I started characterized is what I call old time religion which is really just a label for an authoritarian version that thinks that religion which are when it happens to be a real book written by a strict supreme being and often used threaten or punish other people got it all right so that that's what will takeoff is that an accurate view of the Bible or historic Jewish or Christian faith. We can we can discuss that and you write most Wrigley for the humanist. Is that correct right God and fruit for my listeners that may not be familiar with the humanists. What is that publication magazine of the American humanist Association and Humana have a long tradition. Some of it… But today nearly all secular auto. Generally, people do not place any particular religion that embraces the whole about loving one another and acting.

I great we we got a lot to talk about delighted to have him playing her staff on the line with the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown running us on the line of fire and speak with Clay Farris that many journalists in the humanists science and religion correspondent. We're having a discussion of debate with having a discussion about what we believe what we don't believe and why so late.

Help me just understand some things from your perspective all right and I'm sure these are questions you thought about work through over and over again, but with most my listeners being believers being theists believe in the God of the Bible want to just tease some things out with you about your view of the origin of the universe.

When you stand on that I'm a complete agnostic about the origin of the universe. I think that deep and fascinating mystery. There is one thing I frankly don't always go I don't believe any of the theistic account. Origin of the universe and I need to define what I mean by that traditional theism is that there is an all-powerful, all-knowing and all loving God who created the world. Seems to me that the world contradicts that assertion.

So I think the universe may have been intentionally created. It may even have been lovingly created but I don't think it could have been created by an all-powerful, all-knowing, supreme being. So the old Epicurean trilemma. There aren't so just limit since you brought that up when we just dive in there with you for a moment, would you agree that often things that we passed through that seem to be the worst thing that ever happened can end up being the best thing that ever happened to us on occasion. That's true on occasion that that sometimes there that that going through pain or hardship helps us become a better human being or enables us to help other people, so we may experience a loss. But something good can come out of that. Would you accept that yes, of course, but I also accept it. Needless suffering in the world. Okay for from our perspective, no question. From our perspective right now, baby, starving to death that starts to death while redoing our radio show yes and starve to death for no reason.

It it in yeah the words the overall scheme of the world does not seem to be impacted for the for the good. My question is though as limited as we are in our own knowledge could be that in all loving, all-powerful, all-knowing God created universe, knowing that the final outcome would be such that would be worth and value of human beings would say it was ousted. Is that a possibility out you.

It doesn't seem like logical inference to me.

If there is a supreme being than that being need not put anybody through suffering. "He could have just skipped the end of the story and let everybody the angel there so neither can create imperfect beings in order to get the perfect arsenic from our perspective correct, however, are prospectively only when we got right right so but our perspective also tells us that freedom of choice is important with you agree with that and another is if if you could right now we could zap you and sat me and we become lobotomized, but totally happy.

We can't make any choices we have, but were happy would you like that really extinguish.

I wouldn't choose battle part, but it that way. I mean, by definition, I would be happy if I were in that state, but I thought I happiness I would shoot yet. So from my perspective anything again to just exchange these ideas and and not now, not to put 900 Gateway okay guy didn't just want to be sure because everyone I think your credit meter just to say this that my understanding is that obviously we prize our existence. Otherwise to be much more suicide because we are we prize our existence and we prize our rights. It have self-determination, freedom, and that, as I understand it, if God was going to create a world in which we would have freedom of choice and we would have existence then there be consequences.

But that something good could come out of it that that love is I can be coerce our love for God is going to be something freely chosen versus coerced. Hence I see a universe that could have all kinds of pain, suffering, difficulty many of these things devolving from choices we made within in the end something good and wonderful coming out of it beautiful forever. I understand your perspective and I will be the first to say that I don't know what the world all about that, but at humanist. I tried to understand it through reasons refined through evidence and evidence doesn't suggest to me that this world is that up on a course toward Torah beautiful ending that you describe under some sort of plan instead suffering seems to be very random. Lightning strikes more golfers than terrible people earthquake destroyed people at random predominate. There just doesn't seem to be any moral sense too much of the suffering in the world and that doesn't give me any competent in the scenario you described.

Right. So from the purely scientific viewpoint. There are questions that you have which leaves open the possibility of an intelligent creator does not regard the Bible right so that site.

All right, so say the origin of the universe. The origin of life, the presence of DNA.

Things like that that the fine-tuning of the University of the fact is Einstein said that that we can comprehend it itself you know seems to operate based on mathematical laws and principles so the scientific and leaves you open to the possibility of intelligent creator, but this that the apparently random nature of human suffering and pain leaves you closed to the idea of the biblical creator I think a fair summary okay so I'm not just the biblical creator, but every Christian story I've encountered so far there are many) and I'm sure you would agree that if you go, compare, say, the Babylonian creation account to Genesis 1, you have quite quite a difference there between them.

But either way I appreciate the broader statement so that's where the faith relationship part would come in. In other words based on scientific evidence. I too would agree that there is evidence to be very strong evidence compelling evidence for intelligent creator for you possible evidence, but on the suffering and just have experienced the love of God, because I've seen my own life transform the lives of so many others transformed and I've seen God's help for people in the midst of incredible suffering and hardship makes it easy for me to believe the rest that make sense to you know I don't share your view.

I think I understand that what I have been God working in the world.

This the force of an idea within people that I give them inspiration and hope. And maybe more power to achieve things that they'd expected, but for me that the psychological phenomena very useful and at times, but unfortunately also one that turned terrible beat that time is no question that horrible things have been done in the name of religion and is no question but probably more people being fed and clothed and help right now in the name of religion. So we went to send in and of itself that that's I can be the compelling proof and have you ever heard accounts for which you you had no logical answer that you couldn't just attribute to a positive human factor within someone I don't know what you have in mind, but I think are probably characters certainly open question about why something happened and you know there! That may not be satisfactory for something to me that that's interesting. I don't need to have a close case for every ministry and life. To be convinced that the scientific narrative does a pretty good job of describing the world around us started and and I and I appreciate that.

I appreciate you told Sir for sure on Austin.

There is extreme hostility the way we often describe some of the new atheist writing, summing it up as there is no God.

And I hate him so well, Maia. People who have gone through a difficult process to get to an atheist worldview often have very strong feelings that I I don't have to share. And because I didn't experience that right. And it's interesting you put experience in there because it does it does shape us, and in many ways I've talked to people who this through their upbringing were disappointed lack of a father or lack of pruning answers and they became atheists and then later they got to scientific discussion, but a lot of the 80s and came out of an experience where was God, but I needed him. Why was the church there to help me because people who fill out. Yeah so so that you will come back on. On the other side of the break on this I give you two examples. One is when someone is being operated on say and during the CERT after the surgery. They describe with the family was wearing in the waiting room or a shoe that was on top of the roof of the hospital. What the doctors were discussing those kind of things that point to the evidence of the soul and then say for the principal folks like I work with in India for an initial part of who was an atheist alcoholic basically involved in terrorist activity, hostility, notion of God and had a vision of Jesus… Is transformed and is one of the finest humanitarian service provided to psychology. I will be right back with Clay first Avenue. The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown having a friendly dialogue with humanist journalist Clay Farris half science and religion correspondent for the humanist were talking about belief in God believe in the God of the Bible reasons why it makes sense and doesn't make sense were having a friendly discussion rather than a debate. So Clay, the question of human consciousness from what we understand we have a self-awareness. That's different than say a dog or cat would have ended there are folks who have described FX sciences who became curious of this, where there are documented cases of someone during surgery with a said my my spirit left my body and I saw the doctors talking they panicked at this one point in the bed is one machine in their fixing dials on it and then I saw my family out the waiting room and they were crying and my wife was wearing a dress of this choleric and all the things get verified and again it just points to something beyond humanity or beyond just psychology and enough of these accounts been documented that it seems to be evidence of these for some that something's going on. So how do you respond to evidence like that. Well, I don't see that in the same way.

I don't think it adds up to a really conclusive case and I think the general findings that science has made over the last century and 1/2 roughly make it very problematic what we know about being now is that it reflected photons hitting the retinas of our eyes and turning into electrochemical signals that our brain interprets so if there is a spirit or soul.

How does it intercept the photo but it's not material, by definition, the what's going on there. If we imagine that there's something like.

That interacts with photons, then there should be a shadow on the wall where the folders because the photons are getting through the it doesn't really make that he describe the story that way but it makes sense to describe it as the hallucination or reformulated memory more likely it would be interesting if we wanted to run an experiment on the if we got a bunch of cooperating surgeon to put a code word on the feeling of the operating room after the end speak done his work and then remove it before the patient recovered and that the patient could read off that codeword then be pretty interesting. Evidence we have to remember one other thing and that is that in a world of close to 7 billion people. Acquaintances are going to happen a lot. Everybody has hundreds of experiences every day millions of people means that there's going to be some weird stuff that happened just by going and that's going to be shared with other people because we are either with slits. Interestingly, we have a saying when I pray coincidences happen because it isn't. It is interesting how one particular night I might feel deeply prompted to pray about a particular thing or person quite out of the blue and then have this deep sense that tomorrow going to hear from the person I haven't heard from in three years and enough the next day they call and the very moment I was praying they were going through something at the very thing was praying for those things happen enough that to me. I'd I have to be unscientific in my approach to just attribute them to coincidence and Dr. Brown, Utah. So if you're going to be scientific about you have to record every single time that you do it because there's something called confirmation bias.

Of course you remember the times that you prayed for somebody to call you and they did, but can you remember the one when you prayed and I didn't much less likely to stick in memory. I will actually lots of folks keep their journals in a docket they can document things and yet I I remember the things that didn't have but it's the rarest of rare times that I have a deep deep deep sense that I believe God is speaking or leaving a certain way rarest of rare times when it doesn't come to pass like that that maybe once or twice in a year that that that I feel it the same with my wife.

So again it's it's an interesting thing that we talk about the reality of experience and I'm no scientist so I am actually not a scientist.

My PhD is an ancient Semitic languages and I am not a scientist, but I would guess though that every time I the spirit/soul that were talking about something of a different realm and therefore you wouldn't see a shadow but you you are what you are saying is that you're willing to look at scientific evidence and evaluated as rational as possible with with a healthy skepticism exactly right, which which I can I can accept and then erratic Iran coming. Some say we need a hermeneutic of suspicion and and trust me when I hear stories. To this day someone writing me and tell me about a miraculous healing. I said that's wonderful. But before I reported less and less as a close friend or family member. We practicing for years together and in the doctors themselves are looking. There is a this is a miracle which was it's a miracle, but otherwise I always check. Is it accurate. Is there another explanation so I'm I'm with you on on that money is this.

We got two minutes and then I appreciate you. When the stay on an incident into the next hour you you are in your approach in your tone is irenic a person as I've talked to, and you got married this voracious nonhostile no amicable intone so what you very right and I have to say the same of you will thank you sir I appreciate that what you wrote so in the Huffington Post gave me a different feel. Now perhaps is just words on a page so it makes me angry when somebody who is doing nothing that bothered anybody else any harm that I can lose it out by I'm sorry I interrupted your guy no no no no that's I wanted to understand the why behind that because if you have a religious set of beliefs and these are sacred to you and people say my life is been helped immensely.

Here I was shooting heroin at the age of 15 radically converted the age of 16 I wanted nothing to do with God. I didn't believe in Jesus embrace Jewish and I was hostile. I also would live to be 18.

The way I was living my life radically transform. We have missionaries graduated from a school doing humanitarian work amazing work helping or hurting the poor around the world.

A lot of goods come out of it. I would've thought that your part.

Based on our conversation today. I was so your perspective was take if according to religious beliefs. Homosexual practice is wrong. We understand that, but I strongly differ as opposed to almost attacking those beliefs are good people are quite good and what I was trying to convey that I think religious people of every kind. Take both skeptical look at their Scripture. I think Scripture can be in firing and very do a lot of good in the world but I think when they're read and booked the law and regulation. I think they do a lot of harm in the world because there snapshot from an ancient time and they don't function well and are society today. Got a table and we come back let's let's pick up on that is the Bible a snapshot from an ancient time.

That doesn't function well today in terms of moral guidelines, not my guess.

Clay says that you continue to speak the other side of great my latest articles and videos.

Good asked Dr. Brown.Ward

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