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Dr. Brown's 2014 Interview with Nabeel Qureshi

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown
The Truth Network Radio
October 5, 2017 5:30 pm

Dr. Brown's 2014 Interview with Nabeel Qureshi

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown

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October 5, 2017 5:30 pm

The Line of Fire Radio Broadcast for 10/05/17.


Trends in memory of the passing of Nabil Qureshi. Here is my one and only interview with Nabil so you start out as a devout Muslim, seeking our law and end up finding Jesus. Has that happened for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of the fire school of ministry getting to the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown is great to be with you today on a lot of fire on this thoroughly Jewish Thursday Michael Brown.

Thanks so much for joining us and friends on our thoroughly Jewish Thursdays. Sometimes we will focus on larger issues having to do with Israel and the Middle East, namely will talk about Islam, we will focus on Islam and talk about what's happening in the Middle East regarding his long talk about what Muslims believe, talk about Islamic history and things like that. Today few minutes we are going to welcome a special guest, namely Nabil Qureshi.

He is the author of seeking a law finding Jesus a devout Muslim, encounters Christianity so we can have a great talk with him.

Also this coming week beginning of the week begins the Passover season, in the midst of which I was side out is the Passover lamb and rose at the time of the firstfruits, all in conjunction with the biblical Hebrew calendar. Why, because this is the Messiah of Israel, the Jewish Messiah were talking about the reason that Jesus is the Savior of the world is because he's the Messiah of Israel so will be talking about that a lot this coming week. It's a great time to pray for the lost sheep of the house of Israel and adjusted to share a couple of things by way of introduction before we transition over to our guest and talk about his extraordinary counter encounter with the Lord as a devout Muslim. I just want to share a few thoughts about Jewishness with all of you, my dear listeners and with my religious Jewish friends traditional friends counter missionary rabbis that may be listening. I grew up in a conservative Jewish home now. If you're Christian you hear conservative you think that means like conservative politically and so on. Though it meant conserving the traditions of the Jewish people, while not being as liberal as the reform were but absolutely not Orthodox and over the decades, conservative Judaism has gotten more and more liberal in many ways and less Orthodox.

Oh I was raised in that sense, in a liberal Jewish home and we were not observant Jews in any deep sense of the work.

Yes I was bar mitzvahed is very important to my dad that I was bar mitzvahed yes we like the Chanukah candles. Yes, we would go to seders. Sometimes, yes, we would attend synagogue on the high holidays, but we were not observant Jews. I thought that was Judaism. I thought it was a wishy-washy kind of religion that we knew that there were some Orthodox Jews that lived in the town next to us, but my understanding was there, crazy, and when they were like super religious and super devoted and we know we were much more enlightened. Of course, when I came to faith. I got saved. I thought that was Judaism that I experience it immediately. Rabbis began to talk to me and said you don't really know traditional duties, but you don't know what real Judaism is and I began to meet with Orthodox rabbis, ultra-Orthodox rabbis, I had interaction for many many many hours and God knows hundreds thousands of hours of all types of different interaction. Since that time, I want to say that some of the finest people I've met some of the most devoted people that I've met some of the most ethical people that I met speaking as human beings we we fall infinitely short of God's perfection, but similar been religious dues and I really learned a lot in terms of what I did not grow up with. I've never pretended or presented myself as being an Orthodox Jew in my upbringing, but will say this, although the vast majority of Jews in America are secular in the great majority of Jews in Israel are secular. There is a nucleus of over 1015%. If you go worldwide that are Orthodox or ultra-Orthodox very devoted giving their lives for the believe is right. My heart breaks as I think of my Orthodox friends. Let's pray especially at this time of hearts and minds as we come into the Passover season, ensure glorified file light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown minor fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again. Michael Brown is and times as I've mentioned a moment ago on Thursdays on through juice Thursday will also look at Islam as it is so close regionally and historically and even religiously to the religion of Israel and yet so very very different. I'm holding in my hands a book that is getting a lot of attention. Great reviews by Nabil Qureshi seeking a law finding Jesus a devout Muslim encounters Christianity.

Nabil, thanks for taking time of your busy schedule to join us today is my privilege not be aware. Were you raised what country and what kind of family.

I was raised in United States. My father came and to the US from Pakistan in the 70s and I was born in the early 80s but my father and my mother both very devout Muslims.

My mother, in fact, the daughter of a Muslim missionary and infect the granddaughter of a Muslim missionary so very very devout in their atomic practice of though I was born and raised in the west side of very very strong heritage of Islam in and what's it like to be raised in an Islamic home. Does that mean that you're trained to be a suicide bomber is at this at the main type of education you get. Which is what some folks in the West might think a false notion that it is pretty sad how we've seen the other quite often throughout history as an enemy. The vast majority of Muslims are peaceloving people, and in fact the form of Islam that I was taught was that Islam is a religion of peace.

What does rhetoric that we use.

That's actually what I was taught as a child so perfect for us. What it Islam mean it meant and encompassing view of life where every day work remembering a lot were remembering our creator in our prayers first thing in the morning. My mom had taught me to feel when you wake up you recite a prayer thinking a lot for giving you life because he didn't have to and wake you up in the morning to do not do that either. And just remember that when you die, you're going to be raised before him. So, thank him every day and that's the kind of devout view of God that Muslims have. And of course play the five daily prayers. You recite the Quran in obligation and duty to your creator that's that's what Islam is like for me as a child growing up, thinking of all law again Christians hear that and that's very foreign to them. But you, for you that was God the creator. That's all you were thinking about when you said a lot correct correct the term a lot is like the generic English term God Christian could use the term God, that you could use the term God in Arabic a lot mean that God so before Islam never came on the scene, Christians and Jews in Arabia referred to Yahweh as a law like dealt with when you mentioned a family member relative being a missionary Muslim missionary what one of Muslim missionaries do. So my grandfather he was stationed in Indonesia, where he was doing his ministry and specifically at the time it was Borneo and he would go into the jungles and tell the native islanders about Islam and about a line David of the conflict in Islam of the oneness of God so strong part of his message was against polytheism and that he would hyperventilate and use that terminology would teach them the ways of Islam how to read the five daily prayers and recite the Quran in Arabic. That's what you did his whole life and in the environment which you raised. This is your learning prayers, etc. did you learn to recite prayers or portions of crime in Arabic, even without understanding them was that part of the devotion. Absolutely Muslims pray five times a day. If you're going to do it right and that during those five daily prayer. The imam leads on and as you lead there portions of the prayers that you recite in Arabic on the Quran to look out per person a lot are you reciting portion of the cross from a very young age you're hearing the Quran recited multiple times a day and thereby osmosis. You just memorized the Quran and then when you start fighting the prayers yourself when you're, you know, four, five, six results you already have the corundum rise that you can recite your own prayers and against our listeners who are not familiar with the Quran, the, the recitation of the Quran plays a different role in Muslim tradition than say reading the Bible for believer in a you get on your knees you get a loan you plot your pocket New Testament your reading for God to speak to this in a very different about the Quran. What is it that that gives it power.

Obviously we talk about the spiritual realm, but in the natural and Muslim culture.

What's the power of the crime. What what is it that causes it to be so exalted are excellent questions.

I think a lot of it has to do with the nature of the Arab culture at the time, and also is it helpful to think in terms of Protestant versus non-Protestant denominations of Christianity and Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity, the Bible is often seen far more liturgically than it is in Protestant denominations right to do it you do it in your service as well.

The Quran was originating in a primarily oral culture and so during your liturgical service. It would for the five daily prayers. The Quran would be recited aloud while people are there to hear it.

On it was the actual recitation itself of the word that is seen as a blessing to hear the meaning. The meaning is good to let the recitation itself is valuable and that's why so many Muslims don't understand Arabic when I was a child and that I was memorizing the sections, the Quran, I can understand Arabic got the recitation was what gave it value because because of the power of the fact that it was God's word and in life. I three years of classical Arabic. You might college and grad studies and learning some of the Quran and then memorizing some of the just academically and try and understand and then seeing that at as it was being recited that sense of of the, the power of if the aura of it and then you have the the chanting and the prayer call in the morning and all of this and in through the day, even a stadium event with the Quran is recited. There's a whole culture to it. It's it's not just a matter of personal devotion or Jesus save me and I'm a new person. This is the Islamic equivalent so since you've been on both sides of that. A devout Muslim and now born again follower of Jesus, how would you contrast spirituality for devout Muslim, compared to a born-again believer, I would contracted by if you waited for one in Islam. The emphasis is not on a relationship with God in Islam. The emphasis is on fulfilling the duties you're called to by your creator.

So God is created you, you owe it to him to live in line with what you taught you to do and so it's a lot more debased than it is relationship based just a jumping. You would not have a seeker sensitive mosque.

In true Islam that sets you catering to the person to make them feel better because we are servants of Allah been one of his names is not father in Islam so eight-year even on that level with regard to the this radical extreme a lot of American Christianity, which is very different than a Muslim can hardly relate to, but but anyway it did not intro back to so it's duty based you are there and submission to the will of Allah.

And that's the purpose of your life exactly and that's what it means to be a devout Muslim is to you at him up from what you have to do or who you have to be etc. what are the basics of Islam. Generally speaking, they'll give you the five pillars of Islam. Five pillars are all action there. What you do, whereas Christian yet Christian foundation of your faith they will tell you what you're supposed to believe and at least Protestant Christianity are taught of salvation by grace. And so it's a matter of receiving and believing in Christ, so these are two very different paradigms and they have very strong ramifications, especially as far as how Muslims see their surety of salvation, given that it's belief in God and grace in God of God that saves us as Christians were not performing as Christians to try to please him, and allow our children to have in that way I we can truly function out of love for God and out of love for others because were not being selfish in our Christian devotion when someone is trying to please God in order to get into heaven is always the element of selfishness mixed in with their all truism and that that's a big difference between the Islamic and Christian paradigms absolutely is all right in the belief come back we'll get on with your journey.

What happened in your life to bring you from being a devout Muslim seeking a law to a born again follower of Jesus Nabil crazy is a speaker with the Ravi Zacharias International ministries yields an MD from Eastern Virginia medical school and an MA in Christian apologetics from barley University and an MA in religion from Duke University. I'm holding in my hands. His book, which I really encourage you to get Ravi Zacharias as I've seldom seen such genuine intellect combined with passion to match. Truly a must read book, Josh McDowell, I reserve or bleed recommend this book to all you get the book seeking our final Jesus plus the entire interview today with double crazy $25 postage paid call now 1-800-278-9978. This is not on our website this by phone only, 1800-789-9781 800-278-9978 and the seed and gives the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown, the line of fire Michael Brown with my guess Nabil Qureshi, his book seeking all-out finding Jesus abuse giving lectures on the foundations of the Christian faith. Early history and teachings of Islamic universities throughout America, including Dartmouth, New York University, where I got my Masters and PhD John Hopkins, Rutgers University, North Carolina and other assignees participated in numerous public debates in North America, Europe and Asia.

Nabil let's let's take these next few minutes and talk about your own journey and then later in the broadcast. We can talk more about Islam about Christians are reaching Muslims with the gospel. But what happens in your own life it at what point you have a turn in your direction and your journey. Well, what I found when I was growing up, my son is that the vast majority of Christians I spoke with simply were unable to respond to basic questions about Christianity. If I were to challenge them on the Bible. If I were to challenge them on the doctrine of the Trinity on the deity of Christ doesn't matter. Generally speaking, people had no idea why they believe what they believed or the very least, weren't able to articulate and I as a Muslim had been taught that Islam was not just a religion, we believe, but it was historically true and that Christianity was false and that it was our duty to proclaim the truth and so I would challenge Christians on their faith on these matters. And like I said, never did I receive a response. At least until I got to college when I spoke with someone who had been an atheist growing up and had accepted Christ. He was able to start sharing with me.

Good reasons for believing in the Bible. Good reason for believing in Jesus deity and so I started dialoguing with him, and established the case for Christianity and Islam and can compare the two which one stronger the case for Christianity of the case for Islam and after three years of investigating came to the conclusion that the case for Christianity was far stronger than the case for Islam, not this bring you into any type of personal or family crisis. Not right away, because the evidence was was one part of it, but the act right after I saw all the evidence that it was a matter of asking myself okay. Is it worth it. Is it worth it to follow this evidence or put it in my mind not really grasping the out of breath. My mind is flawed here and I'm not assessing the evidence properly and slightly sift through these things and that's why I turned to God and us with the title of my book comes from seeking Allah, finding Jesus, I thought a lot at that point thing a lot. I don't know if you are the God of Islam or the God of Christianity, but I need to know who you are and that's when through dreams and visions I found Christ and then at that point I attached myself. Okay, I have evidence for Christianity. I've spiritual guidance directing me to Christianity. Is it worth it and it was at that point that I came to really a crisis and I realized yes everything is worth it to follow our maker and truth. Now what happened to you in a sense, parallels CS Lewis journey, who intellectually went from atheist to Deist within encountered Laura Newman from Deist to theist and Anna or or I should say from theist to born-again believer. So the the intellectual arguments are important and I will come back to that a little later, but it was an encounter with the Lord that you had. This is very common among Muslims is in it that these dream encounters God working like this we hear about all the time we hear you're an American. It happens to you yet and that I was raised in an Eastern contact as far as my parents, they were still ingrained in their in their own Eastern culture and so I wasn't mad and have a bunch of American friends. I wasn't going out in public. That much I was in the West, I yes I received it at Western education in Western critical thinking methods but at the same time I was raised with the same beliefs of the East where a lot does respond to people in dreams. Muslims across the board generally do not feel like a monster Sufi feel like they can speak with God directly or commune with him directly. They believe that God only reaches down to them and directs them in dreams and visions and so that's why I asked God for dreams and visions and that's why I believe God gives Muslims in the Middle East in English from land dreams because it's what they're expecting to get for so how did it so you you were intellectually convinced that there was a better case for the gospel for Christianity it's conference you dream. Now you go through the crisis.

What is your family say when you announce that Jesus is the Lord.

Well my parents immediately felt betrayed to understand that we have to remember that Muslims generally don't disbelieve Islam. They see themselves as embodying Islam. Islam is their identity not incidental to who they are integral to who they are and so if I leave Islam.

They see it as me leaving them and so the reaction was one of extreme betrayal. They didn't like it that my family believe Islam is a religion of peace. So they never threatened me with any violence, but they did they do try to convert me back, and so they spent the time sending imams to me and in bringing me to various leaders on their hands. After that they both realized that this was something that I was not gonna come back from. They stop talking to me for a while and didn't come to my wedding. It was very, very difficult, but thankfully over the past few months it's been improving really. So this is been quite a few years that you have been living this out and yes, I became a believer in 2005 and I would say that the only now have things taken a positive turn yeah it does take time and obviously the goal was for their eyes to be opened.

The Beale link. When folks read your book, seeking Allah, finding Jesus what can expect to get out of it. I hope the book was to do three things through the vehicle of my story.

Thought I know people really like connecting personally with others, and that's why my story is very vulnerable, transparent story I share with really on my heart but through my story.

The first third of the book is designed to help people understand Islam from the inside instead of being taught about Islam are told what Muslims believe.

I want people to look over my shoulder as I grow up and fall in love with Islam so they can see how Muslims see in the middle third of the book is the argument that got me looking at the case for Christianity as far stronger the case for Islam and so II lay out the arguments for Islam and Christianity.

I compare them in the last third of the book is the struggles I had the dreams and visions the spiritual guidance along with having to weigh the cost worse versus the benefit of following Christ. All of that is my story from beginning to end. But those are the three sections and ultimately my major goal is for Muslims and Christians to see the gospel for what it is and to love one another awesome. It looks like a ready it is amazingly God is using you might guess another crazy. Here's how to get the books were ministry. This way we can send it to you along with the CD from our interview so you can hear him firsthand for those that can really catch a few minutes on radio you get our hour together here on the air and you be standing with us as well. This educating yourself about reaching Muslims and helping us reach Jewish people at the same time the gift of $25 will send you this postage-paid seeking Allah, finding Jesus together with the CD of our injury.

Here's number to call 1-800-278-9978 by phone only, one 800-7899 78 once more.

That's one 800-2789 97 friends in memory of the passing of Nabil Qureshi. Here is my one and only interview with Nabil. It's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker, and Dr. Michael Brown voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 86643 here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I am throwing on this fight novel creation. Allah finding Jesus a devout Muslim, encounters Christianity will tell you little later you can get that along with the CD of our interview will share that with you a little bit later in the broadcast. Nabil is both a medical doctor and he holds the two MAs, one in which a Christian apologetics for bile University and one in religion from Duke University. Nabil this this has been a pretty busy nine years for you Hassan. It is not yet now, what, when you were in college, and you begin to interact with Christians who had some intellectual basis for their faith in some apologetic basis.

Was there any single thing that convinced you that quote the case for Christianity was stronger than the case for Islam over there a few factors that did it. There were some steps in the process. The first thing that shocked me was that my friend David had actually thought about his faith without brand spanking new to me. I never seen anyone have intellectual responses.

Generally speaking, Christians I'd come in touch with that. All we have to believe by faith, we can think about this and that was what I thought all Christians believe until I ran into David and David opened up for me the view of of Christian scholars and thinkers and so I didn't notice David didn't clarify for me but one day my father and I were taken by David to one of his friends houses to meet his friend and his friends Peter turned out, my friend David was taking us to the home of Michael Acuna and he had brought Gary have amassed with them. Just have your average born-again believer that you met on the street somewhere. Michael Koenig, I have a visitor been cited no idea who they work. All I knew was David Seto. Did your father open to a dialogue with some friends I have, and I said absolutely. We went to talk about whether or not Jesus died by crucifixion and our dialogue partners with the two foremost resurrection scholars in the world sounds so that was an eye-opening experience for me when I realized that my father who you know was my Superman. He was the guy looked up to my archetype of knowledge and strength when when I saw him utterly incapable of responding to basic statements that Mike and Gary were saying quite far from it was unable to even defend his own position on that. I thought wait a minute, maybe I can simply inherit what my parents have taught me. Maybe I should be little more careful in my own faith and so that was a big turning point and then of course when I got to the evidence for Christianity, it seemed pretty strong, but it wasn't until I juxtaposed it with the evidence for Islam. In my mind, the evidence for Islam was unassailable.

But when I started comparing the evidence, the quality of the historical sources. The quality of the argumentation the scholars and and and and and their integrity when it started comparing all these things. Islam just paled in comparison to the historical evidence for Christianity and that was I think my eyes were thoroughly opened and I realized that I was at eight a major crisis point. I just segments a short segment we go to lengthy segments when we come back to look for you to explain Nabil to our listening audience what the alleged proofs of Islam or Ortiz things that Christians can do to reach out to Muslims, especially in the West and will talk about some of the resistance you had because I my assumption would be that not everybody likes you can imagine why you are right my guest Nabil Caray. She will give you his website info when we come back. The book seeking Allah, finding Jesus a friends or throw website excuse me for ministry. Now we don't have this on our website just by phone will enclose with it the CD of our interview today. You'll find this to be a great read. I mean the recommendations from folks like Ravi Zacharias and Josh McDowell and forward by the stroke tell you enough and just like in the last part seven, the truth about Mohammed is the Koran.

This is stuff you need to read one 800-7899 72 order one 800-7899 70 line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown on law finding Jesus Nabil, what would be the strongest proofs that a Muslim would bring in defense of their faith because they they don't have the born-again relationship with God. They don't have the assurance of forgiveness of sins they don't have prophecies that have come to pass and things like that or even something that would parallel the account of the resurrection of the Messiah that can be debated and yet there there passionate missionaries and evangelists and obviously willing to die for their faith. So what would be the foundations of a Muslims face when he's trying to presented and say this is why I know that were right.

Great question.

In fact would say that they have fulfilled prophecy that the defendant Islam. They would even turn to the Bible.

For example, he returned to Deuteronomy 18 or they would turn to John 14 and 16 in order to say that Mohammed is the fulfillment of Jesus prophecy they would go that route or they would go the route that Mohammed himself went tried to say that the I'm sorry to be fair, I should say the Quran itself says that it is inspired of God because the Koran is inimitable in its literary excellence.

No one can match the excellence of the Quran itself a divine caliber and therefore it must be from God's will often use that argumentation. One of most popular arguments around the world today popularized by actually a non-Muslim physician named Maurice beside you. The argument that the Quran has advanced science so advanced to the science and the Koran that it can only be explained by the divine hand on no one in the seventh century, would've known the science that found the Quran and therefore must be from God. Other arguments of the sort allies preserve the Quran, whereas the Bible has been changed over time. These are the kinds of arguments that Muslims use in order to convince people that Islam has good reason for it to be believed and went when they come and say, look, we have a perfectly preserved text and and you have all your different manuscripts in different translations and and scholars can even agree on what the original wording is etc. etc. obviously that can be intimidating to your average believer does your book help folks respond to those types of objections it done.

I provided a good starting point. I have four chapters on the Koran in my book my chapters are pretty small somewhere between four and six pages each roughly so for those chapters are dedicated the Quran for them are dedicated historical Mohammed and so yes, unfortunately as I was writing the story, there is only so much room for argumentation. So I plan to write a follow-up book, Lord willing, will go far, far deeper on the historical evidence for these matters, but yes my book does mention that, for example, most Muslims, almost all Muslims have noted on debating confidence in the perfect preservation of the text of the Quran, but when you just scratch the surface of the evidence on the Carranza manuscript which realizes that could be farther from the truth. The Quran was not only standardized at the very beginning of Islamic history by destroying all the variant even after there was an intentional destruction of of the earliest manuscripts.

There was still up to 80 different ways. The Quran was recited and I 80th informed of the Quran until the beginning of the 20th century and that of the impact of these matters varies depending upon the level of assertion of the fund has as to how much the Quran could not change, but that the bottom line is that if anyone impugns the Bible.

All one has to do is say what kind of problem do you have the with the Bible and was they articulate that you can say the exact same thing if not more, is found in the Koran.

I did give me an example. So, for example, some might say to point to Mark chapter 15 the end of Mark chapter 16 verses nine through 20. Those of us who are in the study of the New Testament.

No, that the later manuscripts of the New Testament include those verses where the earliest most reliable manuscript. New Testament never included that section of Mark Long story short, it was added into the Bible but through textual criticism. We know that and we can take it outside of the Bible because it was never original to it to begin with and for most people listening if you if you put your Bible right now and go to Mark chapter 16 you'll see in brackets that usually will save these verses were not in the earliest manuscripts right juxtapose that with the Quran, the Quran would never be able to remove identify and remove those kinds of accretions because all the earliest miniskirts were burned and so anything that was added in. We simply won't be able to test and remove that now you might say. Well that doesn't show that anything was evident well in fact we have more reason to think things were added in the earliest teachers of the Koran.

Specifically, therefore, that Mohammed picked according to the study of aquatic book number 61 Mohammed picked for teachers and said you are the best teachers of the Quran.

Of those four teachers two of them were alive at the time to Quran was collected, which by the way, didn't happen until about 17 years after mama died when the Quran was then collected. The two teachers that were alive and discussing these matters argued with each other over what should be in the Koran and what should not. I once had the Quran to have hundred 11 chapters another to the crunch 716 chapters are all kinds of people in Mohammed picked to be leaders of what the Quran includes the final version disagrees with both of them. It has 114 chapters and so was there stuff that it was her stuff taken out young Muslim says that there are large sections of the Carranza think the fun of, even our mother said let none of you say you have the entire Quran for much of it is missing. Simply say you have what remains.

So all these sources combined point us to the fact that there were many arguments about the earliest nature of the ground that we can never get back to it because of the control destruction of the earliest manuscripts. The Bible doesn't have that problem. Therefore, we can get to the early part of the Bible reminds me of when John was speaking that runs from the leader was speaking to Lee University and the question came up about homosexuals in this country. This is basically the smile we don't have that problem in our country if if there found there killed in or suffer horrific treatment will obviously you have people who identify as homosexual but they're knocking to be there in the surface way otherwise that they suffered terribly. So it's kind of a similar thing.

You get rid of all dissent and then you say will we have no dissent.

We have no disagreement that the reason there is no manuscript disagreement is because we we got rid of the contrary manuscripts or traditions in your book, you have a section, the truth about Mohammed with four chapters Mohammed revisited the picture-perfect profit veiling the violence.

Mohammed Russell also was Mohammed, the messenger of God, Nabil, how do we balance speaking the truth about Mohammed with not attacking him in a way that we turn a Muslim away. Excellent question, and my primary answer as far as chronologically primary. I would say as we talked most of the focus on Christ.

Let's start off our conversation focusing on Christ not to say we don't ever talk about Mohammed, but don't make him the reason of the initial conversation let that happen over time after truck has been built. Now some people are able to handle the brunt of the evidence and they know that you're not being personally they know you. Nothing offensive and so you can share with them all the things that the records say about Mohammed. That's one way to go about it. Another way to go about it, is to just encourage Muslims and where do you get your stories about Mohammed. How could if I wanted to learn about Mohammed from scratch.

Where should I go in at that point you to modern biographies. They know I'm not gonna go to a modern biography. I want to go to something that the early Muslims believed in giving something early once they do that, you can just show them whatever resource they handed you because it's going to be full of things are going to disagree with, because Mohammed and all the early records looks like a very, very violent, sensual person. The problem is that the Muslims have been taught, edited versions of his stories. Modern additions and that's why they don't know that. But the approach I take, given that I have to be extremely cautious. I have no platform that many Muslims watch and I don't want to turn them off from the gospel by talking about Mohammed.

My approach is to talk about the quality of the historical evidence and say simply that the historical evidence is so poor regarding Mohammed's life that the theater it's so late and so self-contradictory that I can't even begin to say I know anything about him with confidence and if I can know anything about him, how my supposed to proclaim you to profit right when when you speak with a Muslim about this. Obviously the goal is ultimately to exalt Jesus, we come back we got one more segment with Nabil Creasy and want to find out if that's an average Muslim in America how you reach this person really start having present Jesus tomb, but which need to do is get this book. Seeking a law finding Jesus first, the journey of his life growing up in a devout Muslim home being similar wanted to reach out S of Muslim ambassadors encountering the truth of the gospel being shaken and then encountering Jesus first hand. In this book will give you great hard to reach Muslim friends as well get the book together with the CD of our interview by calling one 800-278-9978 1-800-278-9978 once more than 177. The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown, Prof. Gary S most unique two or three testimonies I have ever heard from an honest Guinness author off Guinness. The book is fresh, striking, highly illuminating, and sometimes heartbreaking creature story is worth a thousand textbooks and should be read by Muslims and all who care deeply about our Muslim friends and fellow citizens. Nabil, these are these are great words of praise and endorsement for your book seeking a law finding Jesus.

I'm I'm just thrilled to see of folks appreciating what God is done in your life and and the progress you've made in such a short period of time to speak to so many first why should we care about reaching Muslims. I mean after all that's that's over there. That's another part of the world. People in Pakistan rioting and burning down Christian homes in the 9/11 terrorist signal killed our people here but they see there there over there this summer else there very far in a different why she wouldn't care about reaching Muslims.

Well, I do think that if a incorrect assessment of the situation because muscles are coming to the United States in Drozd. I'm not just immigration numbers along, but also birth birth rate in United States and in fact convergence to approximately 30,000 people a year in the United States convert to Islam based on a study I've heard and so why should we be reaching out to look for one they're coming for two that's why we're here. That's why as far as Christians are concerned. The reason why God doesn't take us up to heaven. The moment we believe, is because were here to make him known on this earth. And if Jesus is willing to live and die for the sake of those who sinned against him.

While we were yet his enemies. How can we call ourselves his followers unless we are willing to do the same if the reason why.

The reason why Christ gives us all the things he gives that he tells us, don't be worried about your food or your clothes. Don't you see how the lilies of the field are taking care of the bird of the air take care of. Don't be worried about that light. If you say that it comes on the heels of him saying if your enemy is hungry, give him something to eat if he thirst to give him something to drink. It comes right after we've been told that you're supposed to pour yourself out for the sake of your neighbors and your Muslims are your neighbors when you're ready for it or not, and anyone unsaved their needs are infinitely greater than yours because you will be with God forever in bliss they need to know the love of God yes and no matter what the situation is in your life or my life as a believer in our worst darkest most difficult moment we have something that that nonbeliever doesn't have and desperately needs.

Let's do this in in two minutes and then folks will have to get your book to get the rest of the story you mean a Muslim friend and neighbor, you realize, wow is a regular person cares about his family. She cares about her kids, working hard, how how you reach that person. What's the first thing that you want to do in reaching out your Muslim friend, neighbor, coworker, person you want. Let them know that you care about them, not about converting them and not about the idea of them but them. If you find that there refugees. For example, her tongue repeated 50,000 to come to the United States every year I find out the refugees. Guess what they're going to need stuff there any need bed.

They're going to need to learn how to drive they might need car rides let them know that you care about them like they don't need anything, let them know your neighbor who cares nonsensical get over their place and invite them over for dinner and the friend them develop a relationship in the context of that relationship, love them as yourself, but also love God freely don't necessarily just shut Christ down their throats.

The first moment they become to see you but don't also shy away from expressing your faith in Christ in the appropriate time and context, and through this organic relationship and love of Christ in your life. A door will open to share the gospel. So, befriend them, love them and love the Lord your God with all your heart, all my strength and everything will fall into place. Nabil or are you hearing of Muslims coming to CCD through your lectures or through reading your book seeking a law finding Jesus yes actually got an email this morning, praise the Lord. I don't claim credit for it, but that I'm glad it is using the stock in certain occasions. Just this morning I got a letter yesterday I received the messages as well. I had some Saudi front student from Saudi Arabia who I met over the summer and now they are believers preaching the gospel in Saudi so the Lord is been tremendously good to give me a story that he is using by his grace that is amazing to hear and wonderful and look personal testimony story is ultimately one of the most effective ways that we can reach people with the good news is they want to follow what you doing the Beale get involved in your ministry. What's the best way to do that.

The best way to do that would be go to our the and you cannot get involved in our own ministry, we have a team of believers were phenomenal. Also you can go to seeking a lot finding, which will take you to love the books website order Bill, which will take you to my bio and you can write request speaking events that wonderful so that's any BDL QURESHI just for the same target hate. Thanks so much for joining us on the air and make your testimony known about on the front lines reaching Jewish people with the gospel over the decades in apologetics debate and dialogue in and you know it's painful when you're rejected by your own people, but you know ultimately it's it's a cross to bear, out of love until the Holy Spirit opens their eyes as well, so may the Lord be with you on your ongoing journey.

Thanks for joining us.

Thank you Dr. Brown I appreciate all right friends, here's the book, seeking Allah, finding Jesus a devout Muslim, encounters Christianity I got to be honest with you what I was looking at the endorsements from people like Ravi Zacharias and Josh McDowell and Lee Strobel and Gary have amiss and honest Guinness. You don't normally get people like that. This excited about a book by the way, I'm sure you could go online and find a way to get the book little bit less, but here's what you do when you get the book through us.

Not only will you get the CD of the interview since she was well.

So if you missed any part of it. If you have a Muslim friend want to listen to it again. You can do so, but you're helping us your partnering with us. So you're being blessed or partnering with us. Gift of $25 or more will send you a copy of seeking a law finding Jesus a devout Muslim, encounters Christianity together with the CD of the interview, one 800-2789 978-1800 278-9978 once more. That's 1-800-278-9978 a look at this chapter, a Muslim at church yet what what in the world happens when a Muslim comes to your church service

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