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It's one thing to have differences over minor doctrines.
It's another thing for outright heresy to be introduced into the church will talk about that today stock for the line of fire with your host activist all the international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of the fire school of ministry get into the line of fire valves like always 866-34-TRUTH that's 866-34-TRUTH your Jim is Dr. Michael Brown when does error cross the line and become out right heresy. When this error cross the line when it is damnable heresy. When the sun holds to this that they would literally not be say they would be outside of God's family, this is Michael Brown.
This is the line of fire.
Thanks for tuning in today. Here's another call 866-34-TRUTH 866-348-7884. I am slow to brand something outright heresy because in my understanding of the word or term, or at least the way it's used in some circles, it's not just referring to some minor difference. We have ordered or do you baptize adults, do you baptize babies can differ on that is her subsequent baptism in the Spirit after salvation and empowerment of the Spirit after salvation. We could different it for the gifts of the spirit normative for today.
We could differ on that what about women serving in different types of leadership what's appropriate now it's appropriate we could differ on that without saying if you hold to that you are not saved if someone says the Bible is not God's word, the Bible is not God's word. It's just like any other religious book will obviously if you hold to that you're not a believer. If you say will. Jesus didn't rise from the dead, he's just an example of love by divers will obviously view holds that you can't be a believer there fundamentals that we cannot deny without forfeiting our right to say that we are part of the family of God.
But I want to talk to today about about some errors that continue to make their way into the church that are highly dangerous, that our heretical if you want to ask a question about a specific doctrine. If you want to ask a question about is this heretical or is this dangerous form sees me for my thoughts are open 8663 for eight 784 so this is not just general Bible questions, but if you're concerned about the teaching something you've heard you're wondering, is this heretical is is this dangerous 866-34-TRUTH 87 884. There is a famous quote from William Booth in context, it appears he was asked a question about the chief dangers of the 20th century. As far as the church were concerned, and any gave this answer which is become classic and extraordinarily prophetic William Booth along with his wife Catherine founders of the Salvation Army. Booth said this in answer to your inquiry. I consider that the chief dangers which confront the coming century will be religion without the Holy Ghost Christianity without Christ forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration. Politics without God in heaven without hell. Talk about a prophetic word. Talk about spiritual insight is ill. It's really striking their dimensions politics without God. I me now our debate is how much should God be involved in politics how secular should be but coming from England with its strong Christian history. Obviously, having a Christian conscience a God conscience was important and you had outright Christian reformer Prime Minister's who had a burden to to bring about positive change in society and saw their role in politics is having that very purpose. Like William Wilberforce is as someone in parliament right and then others even serving along with them and even a higher office as prime minister.
They were God-fearing people and it's interesting how things have shifted both in England and America. But let's let's talk about some of the specific things of which he warned sooner that last one heaven without hell. Last month I did a talk at Appalachian State University in Boone, North Carolina school of I think 18+ thousand students. There were protest demonstrations the day that I came people protesting against me, hate Monger, etc. part of hate groups.
People should stay away from a presentation.
Of course I was speaking about God's love in the LGBT community and anyone that was there and listen with an open heart and mind with others. Not a hateful bone in my body on the subject or towards the people. Well, one of the guys that was protesting. I I happen to see a video that featured him earlier in the day and he was talking about violent speech that I'd be engaging in, etc. and he was there that night and afterwards during the Q&A time I I allowed him a lot of time to go back and forth. You can watch the whole video it's on our website. Asked Dr. Brown.org you can watch the video of my presentation and therefore malaise may give a presentation and then we feel the questions so this gentleman I allowed to go back and forth in his big issue was hell future punishment and I said look what God does is absolutely right and just and fair.
What God does is perfectly good and in he will not do anything unjust in the future.
I said now is it right. Let's say you have a rapist, a rapist serial killer who was caught by the police. Should you just say okay you had a bad day. Don't do it again or do you incarcerate that person yet will he believe that person should be incarcerated.
Okay I said is that violence towards that person. The base near definition is advisor is that a proper and fitting punishment and for the good of the larger society, to get the person off the streets while I said what God's given during the futures can be perfectly just and right he's an atheist now. He said that he was formerly a Christian and your heart have a go out to the guy, the more he talked, the more he kind of sunk his own ship and it was just walk around in circles.
He was talking up, my heart was going out to him and I was extending as much time as I could to try to reason with him and help him. Of course he was very civil in his interaction with me. Subsequently, we get an email from a former roommate and said we were fellow Christians. He was wanting to go into ministry and he read Rob Bell's book love wins, which is a denial. The future punishment and basically says everybody ultimately gets in there. There may be a purging of sorts.
There may be a punishing of sorts, but it is not final. Everyone ultimately gets it instead of eternal punishment. Matthew 25, 46, he wanted to save meant some type of pruning a minute. It breaks semi-suggestively breaks down linguistically.
That doesn't work, it's bogus. It's completely bogus, but this idea that for there to be a truly loving God would mean that everybody gets in or, conversely, that there is no ultimate future punishment that is a heretical idea and a damnable concept and one that will lead people to the very destruction. They deny it's really important that we understand can we debate the exact nature of future punishment within the body. Yes, we can, for example, is there a literal fire was fire a metaphor will people be completely conscious in future punishment or will there be a devolution of a breaking down of human consciousness over a period of time should really been recognize that person over a period of time within church history and within the bonds of the evangelical faith, people of even question. Is there a future annihilation that there is punishment, but that there is an end to it that that the ultimate destruction is just that destruction not conscious torment, even though that is a minority position in church history and among evangelicals today is still something that is within the larger sphere of the faith right in other words, you may have a profound issue with it and say that's a serious departure from historic Christian thinking, or from New Testament thought you could argue that, but you could not say scripturally that in less you believe in literal, eternal conscious torment. You are not saved that the Bible doesn't make that criteria. But if you deny the fundamental notion that there is a resurrection of the just and the unjust.
If you deny that there will be future punishment for the wicked, and that there will not be a place of repentance. After that if you deny that you were denying fundamental biblical truths repeated over and over again, even within the Old Testament. Daniel 12 to speaks of many who sleep in the dusters will rise it doesn't mean many will and many others want menus just tell you there a lot. Many who sleep in the dust of the earth will arise some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. We can debate within. That doesn't mean that they will constantly experience shame that they will constantly experience that torment or that there will be the memory of shame and torment associated with them when they are judged and destroyed that debate we can have, although again to repeat the idea of final destruction or annihilation is a minority position, but it is not a damnable heresy. The damnable heresy is that there is no ultimate future punishment that everybody ultimately makes it in. This undercuts many, many fundamentals of the gospel and is something once again raising its head in the body that you always have liberal churches, teaching things like this always have churches that depart from typical fundamentals, teaching things like this but now you're having within evangelical circles more conversation is as people danced dangerously close to outright heresy. What reminded me about this is a movie coming out about Carlton Pearson, formerly known as Bishop Karl August.
Still no special Carlton Pearson.
He had a rapidly growing church higher dimensions in Tulsa think 5000+ members. There was this great song he sang together with gospel recording artist Carmen and Congress could sing as well as preach and he was prominent enough that immediately after the tragic Oklahoma City bombing that he was one of the ministers who spoke at that the public event immediately afterwards Billy Graham spoke as well that day, but that he was at prominent and that respected and then at a certain point I began to to read about how would become quote more inclusive and was now welcoming practicing gays and lesbians into the church and saying hey you are fully saved just like anyone else. If you put your faith in Jesus and God can bless, committed same-sex couples and things like that you think will see himself homosexuals for us and is married to a woman, but then began to teach on universal reconciliation and there is no hell and everybody gets in the basically lost everything he had, on the one hand, I admire someone for willing to lose everything for their convictions and willing to say I don't care what happens. I got a hold to what I believe is true, but it's utterly deplorable and all the more tragic when they do it for error when they lose everything for holding error in hearing more about this in the days ahead will be right back will take some calls as well for cleansing and gives the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown letters constitute words and the words have meaning. Dr. Michael Heiser, well-known Hebron Semitic scholar sent them a link to the video last night.
He did a whole blog about it today and call the practice divination and thanked me for exposing it, so somebody writes back. Do you are keeping people in the old wine. According to the flesh, the keeping of the carnal tour a guesstimate tour and I was going to try to explain to me how the pictographic meetings actually work. This is other nonsense watch the whole video is on our website and start to brown the religious type in the word Palio you be able to see it is 20 minutes long because I want people to understand the nature of the error. Nonetheless, that's not heretical that's just wrong that's just false.
That's just misleading that this reading things in Scripture that are not there, it could lead to heretical views of the Bible no longer speaks with authority to make it mean what if you wanted to mean, that's one of those errors, it can be a serious error but it's not heretical right. That being said it's dangerous enough that I warned about their other errors, though that cross that line into heresy and and that's what we need to really be on the alert, 866-34-TRUTH out. Let's go to Laura in Calgary and Canada. Welcome to the line of fire.
Dr. Brown I have a quick question with Cocteau doctrine deny the Trinity would not constitute a damnable heresy is so mainstream Pentecostal doctrine believes in the Trinity like everyone else, mainstream Pentecostal doctrine upholds the authority of Scripture.
And I'm in that space tradition myself. However, there is a minority within Pentecostal teaching called oneness Pentecostalism oneness Pentecostalism, which denies the Trinity. I have interacted about this on the air in the past so I appreciate this question, it does come up a lot. I've interacted with oneness Pentecostals who when I have press them argue that they believe that Jesus is the eternal son of God, that they just believe that that Jesus is the father son and Spirit and that he manifests himself in different ways, etc., but as of press them on various things they said they believe Jesus is the eternal son of God, and if you have the Sunday of the father. They sensibly are everything else that a normal gospel preaching person would believe, however, is my friend Dr. James White pointed out, if you will press with those who understand that they do not really believe the son of God is eternal. He is a just a manifestation of God. At some point, as opposed to being eternal God, so if someone denies the eternal deity of Jesus that is a heretical position that is outside the faith.
God is the judge of every individual sometimes people are brand-new and they don't understand much. Maybe they're coming out of some error and when they come to faith. Every new but if they reject the eternal deity of the son of God that is a heretical position. So some of those in the oneness Pentecostal camp for many. Again, I can't quantify that would hold to doctrine that is dangerous, damnable heretical. That being said, the vast majority Pentecostals and all of those that I work with her on the world don't hold today, so I know those folks or their but I've I've never work with them in any way around the world only preached one church related to that one time over 30 years ago. Some of the outside of those circles of interacted somewhat with folks online that when you talk to Laura they'll build sounds Orthodox as any and interact with others that are clearly heretical but Pentecostal teaching in general though the on that to me is his third scriptural in terms of leaving the gifts and power of the spirit for today. Hey, thank you so much for calling 866-34-TRUTH we go to Esau in Toronto staying in Canada here. Welcome to the line of fire.
Dr. Berger appreciate your work on your debate, especially when you are no operatives, but I hope the love that it will work were looking at were looking to do something.
I think this fall and seminary in Florida. They're hoping to get some gay activists or gay theologians to debate also can be to against two we been wanting to do that for years, so thanks us in the pray for that to happen or what their government is so my question that there is the more people or kind of a small light movement of people going like born-again Christian one back and being convicted orchestrated bump out all of the Old Testament laws and public mumbling the start of dietary log so bifunctional went by like it is they believe they cannot be dictated by.
By grace through faith in all that but just out of obedience. All of them because it is that heretical. Is there a point where Doug got heretical enough so is there any dislike one or two clear versus that all shows that like to have freedom to choose whether you want to or not enough.
Right now, it's your estimate you're asking the right questions and and thanks for the kind words. Number one, we want to emphasize how salvation comes. That doesn't come through only works racks of obedience that comes through faith in Jesus that he died for sins that he rose from the dead and we call out to him to save us. That is in active repents and others were saying, save us from our sins were not single save us so we can continue to sin, but save us from our sins, but she is the Savior, and it is is his action that were putting our trust and so we believe that following him will result in a changed life right and that if someone claims to be one of his followers and doesn't live as he lived.
Meaning if if I claim to be one of his followers, and I'm a murderer adulterer something in persistent unrepentant than first on three which have never seen him or known him. So we bring forth fruits worthy of repentance we agree with that but salvation is a gift from God.
Those who say yes. It's a gift from God that he calls us to obedience will agree with that was the obedience mean so. Some will say look first John talks about it. It's those who keep his commandments, Jesus is in John's Gospel. If you love me, keep my commandments, and he speaks of others is lawless, which is really without law so we are all Jesus didn't come to abolish letter to Phil. So based on that. There are many Gentile believers Gentile Christians who say well I should keep the commands not for salvation but for obedience and they'll say, God never gave us a new calendar someone we keep Israel's calendar and if you got saved like the sum of the first Corinthians who got saved, they were God-fearing Gentiles who were in the synagogue on a regular basis and then when they came to faith.
They many of them there familiar with Passover firstfruits.
Paul Paul writes about these things in first Corinthians, so you could you could say then hey would just be like the first believers and will follow the example of the Jewish believers and were keeping the biblical calendar and God never never says the Bible he change the Sabbath, so why should we keep the 77 I have no issue with that whatsoever. I'm a Jewish believer in Jesus. Many my friends are messianic Jews and that's that's how they live, not for salvation but for solidarity with our people as a whole. That being said, I've also seen people go completely into apostasy sir. I've seen people completely deny the Lord so what's the the line that's crossed the line that's crossed is a when this becomes a matter of salvation arrangement that if everyone is not keeping the seventh day Sabbath and everyone is not keeping the dietary laws and everyone is not following the biblical calendar. They are not saved. That's all very dangerous position and is one that is obviously denying justification by faith. And then I've seen almost immediately on the heels of that a denial of the deity of Jesus because that's such a big stumbling block for Jewish people.
Obviously that's a damnable heresy and then the final step is rejecting him as the Messiah have actually seen people start with this Gentile Christians who who compartment messianic congregation and its good and healthy and then they go too far. They go beyond that, or they get into kind of a fringe messianic congregation. They keep going further and then they fall into this justification by the law and then denial of the fundamentals of the faith. So at that point they've obviously crossed into heretical beliefs. I would point people to Romans 14 the principal there right. Romans 14 I don't believe was spoken ritually primarily about the Sabbath, but Romans 14 I would start there and say look at the principle of liberty in the Messiah, then I will go to Colossians chapter 2 and you read starting from verses 1516 keep going from there.
It'll talk about deceptive philosophies and beliefs, and then it talks specifically, talk specifically about. Don't let anyone put you under pressure regarding Sabbath or new moon was. Don't let anyone pressure you to observe these things because that the Sabbath, that's just the shadow. The reality is found in the Messiah and that also said let's go through John's Gospel test with keeping commandments and see what it means you'll see it's not talking about Old Testament laws talk about the commands that Jesus himself gave to love one another is as he loved us and things like that. That's what he was emphasizing so again you cross the line into dangerous heritage heresy when you say you must keep the biblical calendar. Otherwise, you're not saved. Now you cross the dangerous line and then with that it tends to bring about other fundamental denies of the gospel. You watch people like that. Their fellowship with God goes down there.
Intimacy with God in prayer goes down there desire to share the gospel with the lost goes down.
Those are some of the danger signs my book 60 questions Christians ask about Jewish beliefs and practices. 60 questions Christians ask about Jewish beliefs and practices. You will find that to be very helpful the last quarter of the book deals with these very issues right will come back into more of your calls last my friend James Robison to sound the alarm sound, say the pastors and leaders.
We will file the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the minor fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH dear again is Dr. Michael Brown, one of Timothy to watch himself and doctrine closely these days. Doctrine can almost be a dirty word. We need to understand the foundations we need to understand the front fundamentals. We need to be on guard against false prophets and false teachers. Jesus warns about the New Testament was about the whole Bible warns about it, but on the other hand, we get to this narrow mentality of of my group alone is right and and many years back I as it was my doctoral studies in all this is our new more these other people almost like a muscle like God's policeman is in a fix all this error out there and and we've gotta find a way to war against terror. At the same time to not be so exclusive that we think my group alone has if this is Michael Brown and you have tuned into the line of fire.
I'm talking today about serious doctrinal error creeping into the body that is damnable. I mean heretical, damnable the gospel of inclusion that every body gets in that there is no exclusive way to God. Are there. There is no future punishment. Everybody's redeemed soul is as good a time as any to speak with my dear friend and colleague James Robison. Not only do you see him on life today TV around the country around the world for for many many years, but you also read now the stream stream.org is the publisher that is unique place online it. It is the one place you can go with a redemptive message in the midst of taking on the news and the crises of the day and James appreciate your time joining us today on the line of fire. Thanks again.
You really are great bright light stream. I regard Eric publisher pressure article that you have warmers dumped their and you just don't miss many unities mopping. Correction, but more than anything out.
As loving encouragement to walk better word writer will sleep. I want you to not review appreciate appreciate your approach to your acknowledging that we still have much to learn. We don't know it all want seek truth and keep your yaps absolutely him and I appreciate is always the kind words article I wrote yesterday that we forgot how to blush folks can read it there on the stream stream.org so many great articles to legally contributors that James you been one that's traveled in lots of circles work with people of all kinds of faith and non-faith met with political leaders, famous actors and witness to Mohammed Ali one time and that you're concerned about error in danger what what burdens you have. If you are sounding the alarm and speaking of pastors, leaders, believers across the nation. What would you warn about most strongly these days. Eruptions, Arabic strong spare parts. One of the areas were sometimes Christian Bible.
That way, the truth of the ripest Jesus says no one comes up late.
I am the way, I'm not one of them anyway and it really seemed very difficult natural mind spam spirit which surprises all clear up but it just seems almost unfair and realistic way all things. So what the weather God Bob want well is that there's no other way to know that this sounds like that, but it's not in really is a simple structured so I will strike was not trying to hurt when the buildings were collapsing World Trade Center was coming back.
There were many exits, many boys elevator different directions.
People try the family. This is typical of any building projects rejoice in our not if in fact there's only one exit out of any large bill or hundreds read about people trying to get out of there is someone spending start and the crowd is running in many different directions and someone pulled love and yes, says this is the way to go this way must go but were and if they think about man's being unkind and powered out right dangerously deadly wrong in their their assessment of their evaluation when they cite no baby in the libretto is that my endless telling them the absolute and irrefutable. His Batman unkind or intolerant, or is that man so full of love many of you may be spending there risking his own life. Only in the right direction with the very danger of being trampled while he can't do it.
I'm telling you, Batman is basically the people rush to avail people get out.
They went into the same love greater love has no one than this man lay down his life for Sprint. The rescuers rushed him while others were trying to rush that love also tells the truth, you don't have another option is the way to go. So why is that simple illustration to manage so I have a price and even perhaps some plate food store. How is it a foolish story. How is it an unreasonable if it is, but through when it's not in the greatest most reliable proof of greatest life ever examined some of the most serious and even skeptical Batman. There is one more. There is only one way to the pop.
I am the way and I am the true everything I say is true, why you want to finalize you lose the marketing purpose gives back everything you said was true is only one way I think really ministers and Christians. The plant feet about point Shirley is that rescuer about firefighter that individual tell you the truth to get out of here. The only way you can think we have to have faith that my appreciation for everyone about one white was struck yen and the analogy is as loud and clear, and really does note that this no denying the reality of it all. You said something that really struck me that the person is standing there in the midst of the flames in love telling you the truth. That's why they're there risking their lives in the midst of the flames and there is an old Baptist evangelist fans have the right never knew am I not sure if if you are acquainted with them, but he he traveled in a lot of fundamentalist circles, which he saw a lot of emphasis on truth, but sometimes found it was devoid of love could could that be one of our shortcomings today that that some of us are doctrinally correct and we hold to what we hold to be shouted out to the world but the world sometimes here's that were not doing it based in love it. Could that be a problem were having today as well. Well, much of America's glad spouting off about all going to gearing you and I would bring scripted problem affected wisdom of the true I used to preach with clear going we could ever write about anything.
Born go off of my anger and the way in which I delivered not just for that amount being a personnel wired with our not… Our work, try to speak our program speaking, one who has all the work, but sometimes I got when it was like vitamin spirit and and for the first used to show the futility of that is found that is that the wrath of my work righteousness wrath ran off right.
My goal was to gorilla the most of the world, even if it's portable go this way.
This is the way to go that, but it's not what I thought with.
So the wrath of man does not produce God's righteousness, and that that was a key verse gospel genuine testimony used to be known as God's angry man so bringing love and truth together. That is the absolute key for today hey James, one last question before you go. Are you able to reach out to folks either directly to the president of the folks near the president can be still be praying for you is your because this everyday new news of new crises and so on. In the liberal media wants us think everything is falling apart. Are you still able to reach out to folks either close on resident reach their attitudes. I wrote about that time.
I think he needs think he needs to make certain that doesn't remind the case. This business of allowing a budget debate that is so ridiculous that everything you ever leave correctly. Looks like it's Pushed back all now to the second part of avail spoke this Vista half-million dollars slaughter innocent, scripted, self-serving planet. Planned Parenthood was all the things that absolutely are burning people are not even been born and I just worked out and there was the assurance they would. Especially when doing so many things right not to not to support the right to life by funding. Most use events of life, one takes more than sublime Planned Parenthood adjustment brawls and gifts were disappointed but not only White House and Congress and every conservative, every American that that will not stand for the protection of life, brightly restraining for the protection of the children which are so many things bring to the right to change the murderers are going to change what's going on with you fatherlessness mentors employed Tony things need to be done, but don't pass up. But those very things that you've already figured not you know are not right and do it anyway.just absolutely yeah so keep praying that God would give an ear to the word you bring in others bringing to the White House to the presidency, Congress got grandma Holyfield for country change.
Thanks so much. As always, for joining us on the broadcast today.
Talk again soon.
It's the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 866343 here again is Dr. Michael Brown subsumed what point doctrine become heretical. We sometimes use the term loosely, just it's an erroneous teaching, and an that can be accepted as the meaning of heretical but it's schismatic it's different.
I normally use it for something that is outside of the faith, whether it's what Jehovah's Witnesses believe is heretical. The differences between Baptists and Presbyterians over water baptism that is not a heretical difference. The difference between Calvinists and Arminians is not a difference of heresy. Note there are some there is some's extreme Arminians that Tamil Calvinist to hell and there is some extreme Calvinist.
The demo Arminians to help. I'm scheduled to debate Dr. Theodore Zacharias in June about the gifts of the spirit are they for today after accepting the invitation. I found out that the organizers of the debate Dr. Zachary this and that this Zacharias think and his colleagues ours. Strict Gordian Calvinist to the point of not believing I'm save this Arminian level of medicine, Arminians, charismatic and Bob do the debate anyway and will make very clear what the subject of the debate is and his so I know you have those extreme views on all different sides. But as I have tried to use the term heretical. I mean this is outside of the faith, and that if someone holds to this, they are most likely outside of the faith you say, why don't you say death as of the faithful God alone is the judge at what point to someone's error become damnable hacky Hank had a graph my radio colleague sometime back some