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Growing Up with a Transgender Dad; and the Divided Gospel

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown
The Truth Network Radio
April 11, 2018 5:00 pm

Growing Up with a Transgender Dad; and the Divided Gospel

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown

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April 11, 2018 5:00 pm

The Line of Fire Radio Broadcast for 04/11/18.


We've got two very special very powerful interviews you don't want to miss them for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH index 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

So what if you your little girl and her daddy has to share something with you one day he wants to confide in you, but not even 10 years old. Daddy wants you to know that he really believes he's a woman feels important that he shares that secret with you how you respond so I couldn't imagine well from I guess Denise fix this is not an imaginary scenario.

This is what she live with and this is why she has become so burdened to help families who have a love one family member struggling with gender confusion this is Michael Brown you are tuned in today to the line of fire. If you have a question for my guest. Denise Schick give a question for Denise since you're dealing with your own life or family member that is struggling in these ways, or friend recounting this in your school or place of business, social media will open the phones, 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 87884 Denise is the author of several books including it is well with my soul. Denise is this people given to the transgender urges hurt family members and loved ones.

These people are hurting themselves, but they are also hurting others a Denise great to have you back with us on the line of fire.

Thanks for joining us.

Dr. Brown so Denise let's just go through your own life history again and how it is that you not gotten actively involved in ministry. Would you say that your upbringing was was pretty normal. The first few years of your life. Primary year, we were just like any other family that there like on anything different.

I got a very different, fell during the night that we wisely know that the way he collapsed or however you would explain that as a child here now spell it.

Didn't know if anything appeared to of been wrong or are known to me of what was going on until I was nine years old on a summer day when my father asked me to come out fit with him and on a specific day each of the first words he sent me my I want to become a woman I had nothing preparing me up to that and I just found there looking at him, wondering why was he telling me that understanding that I was a child and trying to back all of the detail he was giving me, and express feeling and what he felt his need to learn how that that would not think hunting beginning to grieve the loss of a dad all just an instant. I completely out of the blue. Did you got your siblings Denise. I have a brother that would have been eight and one and another brother that with four and a two-year-old I see you you're the oldest, then and suddenly your whole world is turned upside down and you're also talking some years back before you have as much talk about quote transgender issues in the news media, social media, go to the point of cartoons and sitcoms in TV shows and serious drama reality in all of this so it is this completely out of the blue and in that respect. You have no context obviously for processing.

This so you're hit with this all all at once. You remember how you responded to them could use anything outwardly apparent complete tyrant. I wasn't sure how to respond. I also wasn't sure why he was on his nine-year-old daughter. All of the information he also had shared with me how I would know when he would like a woman. What I would look for him if it was like a bigger pot like how Anita I'm only a kid I though trying to profess like you said all of this in an alright so that's the beginning of the story nine years old. What happens in your life in the years that follow habit patterns is sharing this with you impact you and then what happens to him and the rest of his journey, and by the time I was 11 years old actually started to question God has made him think with my dad not being born male and if God did then. How did I know that I didn't make an a and I really should have been born a boy and taken it into a fantasy that I would play out in my bedroom you know what that would mean how I like the relationship but that would be for an adult, and even practicing what a mailbox like so I became confused about my own identity just just is just a jump in here. You never struggled with those thoughts before you never wondered about your identity. It never occurred to you that you are anything but a little girl right now and never occurred to me that I was little girl and ~alright so growth the typical little girl your dad drops this bombshell on you now. Not only is he on his journey, but this messes up your own life, not just your relationship with your father like you said, you immediately started to grieve over the loss of a father because it does really a woman, then that's not dad, whatever that means. You don't exist in the biology of Europe just does not dad something is wrong.

There, but not only that, now you your you're hit with just questioning yourself. So friends I want you to hear this, Denise was out struggled for years and years, the commitment really a boy and a girl's body. I think I think some of I think God made a mistake and she wasn't constantly thinking along so tomboyish that I really am a boy and a girl's body. She wasn't thinking these thoughts until the instability of her father touched her and then made her begin to wonder and question. Alright so let's go on with your story to base so I started to develop very young 13 and 14 and aware that it is very notable that my father between Gary and the amount that hatred towards me on court my body went galloping into a young woman and what what exactly exactly what he desired to become I felt became more of a of a challenge to feel free to be a girl and he and the environment at home, to dress like a girl to wear makeup anything like that that I began to take my makeup to school sometimes take a change of clothes to school where I could feel then free to be a girl to look like a girl or act like a girl and wear makeup at home.

I felt that if I dress like that or wore makeup. Maybe I'm going to cause some weakness for my dad. Maybe it will make him want to become a girl all the more so you know that you just kind of feel like as a young girl you lost your freedom to be a girl in your own home. The ripple effects of this are so remarkable Denise.

I've I've read accounts to seven older cousin who in his late 60s richly 60s said, look, I'm really a woman in made some radical life decisions. Because of that and I began to see some of some of the folks he was relating to online and and and looking at some of the stories you got a guy you will marry 20 years and with five kids and now he says look I'm really a woman in the transgender community is helping him as a hero and use left his wife in a living from the kids. But what a stand you took. I'm sure he was suffering a lot of internal torment. I don't minimize that. But I don't look at that as a hero with someone ultimately says this is about me and my family my kids become second and friends. Take a minute go to Dennis's website help for help the number for and while you're there, you'll see a picture of Denise's dad is a man and then as a woman right you will see the link help for families so just picture Denise's little girl and then her dad is a man and her dad as Becky, just that. Take a moment go there.

Trust me, help number four help for writes of Denise your 1314 years old going through this. Whoever put this on a little child now you're young teenager has you as your dad open up to others does does your mom know what's going on at this point my mom I now senior and previous year here difficulty, however, I don't believe from later on in the year, I had asked her more about that, but she had any idea how much control if the desires had over him and so she did not know what he had told me at the age of nine I have to fifth secret. I codified how mom who struggled with migraine headache to make a thick soap. My job that I had taken on at this point was to protect everybody protect mom, protect the younger sibling. Nobody must learn about this.

Even at that point of recognizing how I was questioning why what and fear that my brother would do the same if they knew what dad was doing behind closed doors or in a draft at the bar with his right leg on. So I became their protector in the next continuing to mature. I was so empty inside and looking for a father's love that I would go through a boyfriend.

It was like once I gained male attention young man's attention. I would like a game okay and got his attention onto the it wasn't enough. I was trying to fill what only Jesus Christ could tell, but I didn't understand that it was just complete and Tina and began to drink alcohol for about my lunch money my babysitting money whatever I could to be able to buy bottles of wine to get drunk at every camp, but I had written the book.

It is well with my soul finding God's peace. The transgender storm.

The just got a minute before our first break and then will continue, but just take a minute to tell our viewers tell our listeners what they'll get out of this book is well with my soul. Obviously traumatic life experience.

But God has made you whole. What you hope that readers will experience is the read the book.

I hope that no matter what their faith situation life that they will see how walking a lot-God allowing him to walk along I and our her and her that we may not like the lot that we have in life but at the end of our journey, we can look at it and we can say it is about with my soul. It doesn't mean you have to again like what it is that workspace here on earth at the understand the Lord Jesus Christ is with us and there's a wholeness therapy, healing anyone feeling each and every one of us friends you're talking and I with this three challenges having is that sale of the woman is nine years old book is well with my soul website help for the number four help for back with more the light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice and more cultural and spiritual evolution. Jim is Dr. Michael well with my soul finding God's peace in the transgender storm website help for help number four families.calm and Denise, your your dad your knowledge, never found the piece that you found in dutifully identifying as a woman how would you say his life went well. I know that the 13 year that he lived as Becky here was filled with that he did not find the fulfillment that he thought that he would wear his word not later when he had laughed and he was dying from fanfare in the last month of his life to hear that. I don't know if I had heard that my own father how much I might question you know what all the messages that we have today in the culture that have a man lived as a woman and you say comedy so dear to you to say that this did not bring me the fast satisfaction but I thought that it would. What did it do you know it destroyed his life. But God had intended and and destroyed our family line are my mother married wedding vow destroyed so much never went for everybody throughout the years that he had lived. Becky, let's change the scenario here and let's say that you being his nine-year-old daughter. You are his older sister, but the person you are now the Denise Schick that you are now with the knowledge of God, that you have with the knowledge of these sexual and gender related issues with with the personal experience you've lived through so you're not his daughter. You're his older sister, and he sits down and says Denise I got to talk to you want to be a woman. I believe I'm a woman what you say to him, how would you help him I would first of all let them know that I love them and let him know that nothing is going to change that love that my brother for him and aptly would not feel rejected and really know the genuine love that this sister had for him but to as well. In a godly and loving way say that that is not the true you know that that's not biologically God had created you to be or who you are, let talk about that. Let's find others that we can talk to about this and really find out what's going on with you and I will be there to help you along the way so that he didn't feel that he was alone and that so it is saying this obviously you shown compassion, solidarity, but you are now making the assumption that, in fact, biologically, he is not a woman that you are rejecting explicitly the idea that maybe he actually has a female brain in a male body.

So you've obviously studied this issue a lot such as anecdotal life experience what you studied this issue a lot because you been burden to help people in these ways. Why don't you believe a lot of the transgender talking points that these people actually have the wrong brain they got a female brain in the mail body that it that it really is biological. After all, why don't you buy that I don't think God word alone one 2010 where God had created man in his own and and an image of God he created him male and female he created found that there weren't any Scripture that he created 1/3 gender, and so for me that is that anything of that nature when I had received microfiber at the age of 15.

What you think is true how I felt was through. I also understand fruit might not only the experience of speaking to others and family members because at the age of nine. Some of the underlying crime are loved one have had occurred or in life but For my God, he was sexually molested know not everybody that identifies as being transgender has been molested by him. He was, I also understood that my dad had a real hunger to connect with his back, but he felt heated by his dad. He felt like his dad did not have enough time for him in life and his dad was wrapped around the business and his mother was an alcoholic, though even at nine years old I'm putting all these connecting together which I couldn't understand why he couldn't and and so where it where I come from it's like a lot of hurt somebody that make you or defied to get involved in heavy drug.

Why are they looking for that speak: flight what what is it that they're really looking for, ultimately were all hungry for Jesus Christ.

We have it that desire but we can cover that cover that up. In effect, get trying to fulfill our empty at the front. Now, just as I had done with having seven boyfriend and nine months in seventh grade right so the difference here is that we be told that when it comes to transgender identity. This is who the person really is that if you're looking for satisfaction drugs that sister probably are having a very multiple boyfriends are sleeping around the sister problem you're having. If if you're engaging in some other harmful activity. This is probably having where is this transgender identity is who you really are there again without telling him that intersects was a biological or chromosomal abnormality and does not fit into a normal category because of an abnormality right so it's not as Denise said 1/3 gender different gender. It's something that is biologically anomalous or there is a different chromosomal of arrangement, and because of that there are genuine issues that it's a whole separate thing that would be like a disability or handicap. Just like we deal with blindness or deafness or some of the limits doesn't work properly, but we are being told in bombarded with this.

This I did this to the person really is need to celebrate that Denise you know because you live in this world now try to help people that parents now say look, might my three-year-old boy he identifies as a girl we've got four boys in the first three of you is as boyish as could be. Play roughhouse games with dad, but but you know he's always been different, and where the same parent, so maybe there's something up with hormones in the womb.

Or maybe this is a different, it is brain your website help for families health number four you try to help families what would you tell these parents that say well maybe we should just raise our boys a girl I would have any family mom and dad with children all got different personality makeup each person has their own Their own talents, their own interest, but perhaps the young boy that they're considering created or are born that way you know might have more of the sensitive temperament. Or maybe he's more artistic, though type of attribution don't make somebody born the wrong work in the wrong Bonnie means that there different in no way come in comparison to their other and so you know I would invite them to come alongside of that child and to expand on the interest become involved in those interests, but that's how that make less than a male because of where is interest or gifting may be to come alongside and strengthen and in those ways and as well as for the father. You know what the relationship like I'm not blaming the parent how that young boy could also proceed that relationship with the father or if he feels more comfortable and mom world right so that it reach every child of human beings can have certain tendencies certain predispositions you may look at the NBA and say that the vast majority of the players are African-American and they are over 6 feet three and their lien but you may be African-American 6 foot seven and that doesn't make you a basketball player so we we we have these conclusions that we make a jump. That is a wrong job and with the nieces is encouraging is that you can recognize different interests in your child so maybe you got, you know your your the first three boys.

They like to wrestle and jump on each other and the fourth boy. He likes to listen to quiet classical music and and and paint these very delicate outlines and and he likes to hang out with his sister and her friends. While visiting is a girl point was in a boy's body having these leaps that were making her completely gratuitous old friends, go to the website help for if you have an issue in your own life your struggle with gender identity. If you have a family member or friend.

This rose send people when they save you when they call the show ask how to handle these issues because these issues or people right help for film is the number four families.calm and again Denise's latest book. It is well with my soul from God's peace in the transgender storm Denise just 30 seconds. Do you know people successfully gotten at home in the bodies in which they were created after struggling with gender identity for years how you think they'll honor to have the opportunity to meet and know them and really be able to call them friend. Thank God.

Thank God you're a wonderful spokesman for this. Having live this in a very very unique way of having nothing but compassion for those who struggle friends you can share this interview with others to help get the word out. Denise may God expand your reach. I give you much much fruit in the days ahead. Thanks so much. All right friends we will be right back. In fact, we have back-to-back interviews for you today about to get in light of the real nature of the gospel come back to light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown line of fire now going to 866-34-TRUTH your Jim is Dr. Michael Brown, you know, there is spiritual milk, and there is spiritual and in New Testament terminology spiritual elk is for babies and spiritual needs is for those who work mature really get into some spiritual meet. Today my guest, Dr. Joe Matera is a longtime friend he pastored for many years in Brooklyn, New York but also was involved in city wide reconciliation and citywide working together for the gospel and has continued his ministry expansion so that he is just around the country and around the world in his newest book the divided gospel lays out some fundamental misconceptions that we have about the nature of the gospel.

If you have a call for clarification numbers 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 87884, but this is our one and only subject how is it that that we have divided the gospel wrongfully and what have we done to what are the consequences of the subtitle the consequences of separating the gospel from the kingdom of Joe as always it's great to have you on the broadcast with us all my pleasure and joy to be with you. Your field a great thing for you are doing that actually beyond the joy of being a partner with you the kingdom. Yeah, absolutely mutual mutual joy. On every front. Joe you you been the leader to leaders in your books are very practical there theologically deep you aware of different perspectives, but your books are very practical.

Why do you feel it's so important to mentor and to and to raise up leaders to point to another generation. What was it so important that we have that mentality and all that we do for you know somebody who bit of all the call to give it out without young people still Christianity is only one generation away from the every local church is one generation away from the light of the gospel with one generation away every family from the boat. We don't have to face down if we don't intentionally pouring people that even if they fail the faith. They may perpetuate nonbiblical of paradigm of Christianity.

So I made it my business to try to pass on the values of the kingdom of the biblical worldview part of the church to young leaders.

We have some call the future. The lion, the United States coalition rep thought leaders that we live website of anyone is interested in trying to have monthly call mentoring meeting were really intentional about it because the future of the vote of the church I used words a few times, kingdom apostolic women come back to that in a moment when you speak of the divided gospel divided and in what sense well in my opinion some point in the 1880 we separated the good news of the work of Christ, which would be the correct mother. Basically the gospel from the overall goal of the gospel which is the reign of Christ over every aspect of culture in the winter when John preached John the Baptist for all they summarize it for the gospel of the kingdom of God. Though the kingdom of God is not the church of God that emanates from the throne of God in heaven will reconcile people will eventually be called reconcile the use of influence or bring the reign of Christ is there there be a level above. No assignment, basically that were called.

We separated salvation from the kingdom or the rule of God. We are left with good news for an individual.

We did not stay for using hyper faith throne prosperity. In other words, we don't have any obligation any Fourth Circuit vanity would knock her with the rule of God. Your concern about going to have it brought so close. That's what a lot of people heard it.

I get saved so I can go to heaven.

And obviously there is there's truth to that Jesus died for us and saves us individually, but that's only part of the message out what what would be an extreme on the other side there's the one thing kind of it's all about me.

Salvation, what would be extreme. On the other side with that the Dominion is him that was posted take over the sub subtype of theocracy. In the late 1800s. Another ream of those who felt God and all they can.

They work started out with social reform, and they want of becoming liberal because that collapsed everything down making a better variety, and they look the gospel they would try to create a utopia that you have some alone folk ready preach that way I don't know anybody think they're looking at the start of heaven. I'm sure there out there I don't know anybody but you do have some extreme end of Frederick believe that all prophecies of already been fulfilled. Something left for Israel.

Nothing left of the church, reading every arena of world church, but when I say we get to take over every country or every government or that are thing is to be a faithful presence in New York to be salt and light.

Maybe some nations will be disciples of term adopting their worldview for their ethics law. Maybe someone but the truth is only when Jesus comes back bodily return will there ever be the oldest of the kingdom, but that doesn't stop us from doing what is best to occupy political not you know dispensational theology pretrip rapture theology says that Jesus offers the kingdom. When he came.

Israel rejected him and rejected the kingdom. So the kingdom is is is withheld in them. He returns establishes the camp so can you just said it that the fullness of the kingdom in the fullness of God's will and will not happen until Jesus returns, establishes his kingdom, or eternal heavenly kingdom. But you would reject the idea that the kingdom of God is not present evidence it was when we pray our father. We see your kingdom come, were were praying for the that the coming of the came through Jesus the King but we also pray for the advancement of the kingdom in this world on a day-to-day basis because I think that that prayer was the theological prayer that it never separated prayer from our purpose only thought of the Lord's prayer. "Your what both on the earth with the bring his kingdom or his rule on earth as it is in heaven that could be your goal that could be a guideline but felt really good faith that he when he return is going to put down every room of our whatever you so I don't think the church will only do that before it, why was wrong with the thought of your own eco-where the gospel goes their implications for the make it just the gospel of salvation only, then it becomes a matter okay I'm saved and I go to heaven and I have no earthly responsibility. Friends of speaking with Dr. Joseph Matera's newest book the divided gospel and and Joe.

The book is clearly laid out as all your books are and it's an easy read and faith. Each chapter is bite-size so folks can go through chapter the time and in the justice but let's give some examples where you start your first example 1st or second example of the divided gospel and the consequences of separating the gospel from the kingdom. Well, look at the I mean my gospel that great but a lot of people about about you know our benefit taken the prosperity message of the gospel and what we separate the gospel of the kingdom we look at prosperity for me to get better house, better car live in an affluent lifestyle live a life of comfort with okay love that you will about that but it started going oppose the gospel if that's what our number one aim in life is when you combine the gospel of the kingdom, you're obligated to serve humanity you you're obligated think of. Wait a minute I'm given all these gifts of make will create wealth, but because of call to bring God's kingdom on earth as it is in heaven.

My own particular spear of influence. I have to think about how to create wealth and influence not just go to heaven not to feel good, which leads to philanthropy you leave creating NGOs sort of nongovernmental organizations for concert community of basically summarizing Deuteronomy 818 where God told Moses I've given you power to get wealth so that I can earn my coveted on your the one we connect the gospel of the kingdom. I will well possibility or stewardship to help get the gospel out to begin to bring God coveted every nation, not just about living a comfortable life. God that's that's that's a glaringly strong illustration take a biblical truth about God's provision and prostituting it when it becomes about me and so I can have personal wealth then I'm going to judge my spirituality by what I'm driving a Ferrari as opposed to God's abundance given to us so that we can advance his cause on the earth feed the poor. Take the gospel to the ends of the earth and and Joe what about the fact that Jesus tells us to pray even privately to say our father rather than my father.

What is that Telus again when you separate the gospel from the kingdom your not looking at the whole look of God, family, or God's kingdom are, you individualize the gospel and the dinner we feel a lot of craft building their own empires. You have booked people in Christianity to feel good. On Sunday, or to help their marriage. The full good thing but when you connect the gospel to the kingdom that you're obligated to kingdom come with every church, not just your church kingdom is about bringing God coveted on the earth not just about you having convenience and comfort, so the gospel of the actually negate a tendon legal proclivity towards not a lot of preaching today is how you can get your miracle five-step to your happiness actualization at about right were called obedience feel good Melendez up in jail for the faith one day's walk in obedience. Right. More to come with the book the divided gospel is the line of fire with your host activist author nationals and Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 64 through again is Dr. Michael Brown presents with my friend John Joseph Matera's newest book bided gospel that lays out the consequences of dividing the gospel from the kingdom.

You can also read his blog on charisma magazine called pulse so you can hear from on a regular basis is writing regular articles and he is one who is out to mentor other leaders, young leaders, older leaders more information on his website as well so pulse you can read his columns for charisma as well. Joe, we often hear the word apostle apostolic these days you or leader of the international coalition of apostolic leaders and these days a lot of folks especially critics to talk about, nor the new apostolic Reformation and I've actually tried to get my arms wrapped around what people mean by on the one hand, it sometimes used to describe everything that people find to be wrong in the charismatic Pentecostal movement of the other hand it's used for alleged dominion theology.

Others say there's a belief in super apostles that everyone needs to submit to an apostle what you mean when you talk about apostolic and apostolic leaders today are people who have tried to break with the new upstart Reformation theology and try to categorize the whole movement by some of the extreme product that and whatever you want to cover a movement you will look will the extremes in the movement and categorize the whole movement going to put you the most of us don't agree with some of the things that they're criticizing. For example, laying hands on somebody and declaring them to be an apostle and the city were nation were nation. Yeah that's been done by some people but extreme dominion theology, language and rhetoric like we are called city will overtake us to and if we have the solutions to problems will out a little to leaders, but people like us to lead but we don't come from a top-down autocratic with theocratic mind would not into you know the top-down autocratic reputation that apostles may have to make some nation that's part of the entity all categorization or proper categorization, but I believe the United States coalition about the thought leaders, I have a book on my website. Donald called apostolic leadership and on my website actually thought teaching on the nature of dog leadership and address all the you know you don't agree with things with their calling up Gallic side against that as well. So a lot of the cheeks against court nor the new apostolic Reformation you as a leader of an organization that used to be greatly assisted with good why do you as is a senior representative of this, I know I don't agree with that is I don't agree with this and with this visit it's it's so important that that we get this out again. Joseph MAT TER a great place to go for more information on this and enjoy what I'd like to just give up a practical illustration because you your your New Yorker from Brooklyn and and what about New Yorkers. Talk is cheap and will see some action they want to see some reality so what did you see happen over the years. Did you ever present solutions to city leaders to join our political leaders in the city coming to the church for help and inhabit. This actually flush itself out little good movement of one point account dream liberalism. The employee in our region and want anything marriage with a lot of people to Albany and one point even for values against Christianity is respected and loved so much that the highest-ranking senator one point in the state came to me looking for the state parachuted into the community will look at the we don't have anything we don't know doing and he asked me to start an organization that we eventually called my community and redefine government and we got 100 of the top down through the Christian leaders in the city and we started beating the government official.

And you know describing the issues that were going on in our communities and we Began partnering. We thought a lot about how to start NGOs how to nonprofits to serve the community. We got them connected with entrepreneurs to me. If you give state a dollar to become 25 because all the bureaucracy we know we give the church a dollar will become $10 because you guys have the greatest volunteer army in the world and is absolutely right. So they know that they need the church. Make no mistake about it. They understand their ideas bankrupt and enlisted church continues to be salt and light in their community countries going down is still so interesting is what we preach this all about me narcissistic individualistic gospel and separated from the larger purposes of God in the world.

Then all of our activity that's political is to get us to vote for certain candidate, and they were looking for the candidate or the party with elected leaders to do what the church is actually called this of course we vote we get involved in these things, but who is it living this out on the ground it's it's the people of God are we just got a few more minutes friend you need to get the book the divided gospel. It's practical, it's eye-opening. I wrote an endorsement for you can get it on or on Dr. Matera's website, but let's take a couple more examples given another sampling of a chapter or two from the divided gospel document government from coming to church in the ground. God gave a man working them before he got married Amanda inclination to the ground.

The earth's identity is what he accomplishes and after that God gave him a Roman woman. Identity is more relational leather belt and you don't really trying to get things to know.accomplished going to twilight a minute and they need their wives to balance them generalization and you know women accomplish more things of men and women.accomplished lawyers like you generally when a pastor is preaching, preaching, and not gospel teaching of God, you know forgiveness is good. All men have a call to accomplish your and why humanity did not want to come to church. I think we lost some of the greatest leaders of our generation because they could not gospel that the middle one soul temporarily give the middle, the God of the kingdom not only bring people into church salvation but no matter what you kingdom to come on, you have believed that you are not a strip of the mission field. Meaning bring God's ruling on the trust in the church body and that only actively been banned or an athlete or activate one accomplish great things with the good. A lot of your own quite likely that the church is often even the emotional appeal of some preaching which which has certain aims and goals even where you hear churches talk about going to help you unlock your destiny in God is still a matter of my destiny, my purpose and that's that's always small you could be the next Michael Jordan or Lebron James in basketball, which is mass everybody knows your name on the world that still small in terms of what what's God's kingdom purpose for Michael Jordan or Lebron James. So we preach salvation wholeheartedly.

Yes, there's a hell there's a heaven.

We preach that now the question is, as a safe person you live because to go make disciples. The question is how do disciples were friends. The new book, Dr. Joseph Matera MAT TER a the divided gospel check it out. You'll find a real eye-opener. The consequences of separating the gospel of the kingdom, but it's a real practical, easy read as well and then check out Dr. Matera's other books. Hey friends, we just got about 45 seconds of Joe. If folks go to your website. What will they find their every week. Barely book that they can connect to the Graham twitter likely article they could so I don't really get the articles we go beyond All the ministry part one and part two and though they could download the book on Kindle on Amazon and they can stay connected to their website and since those that so what is this new apostolic Reformation thought find out what a fine apostolic teacher has to say get get things right.

Get them in essence from the Barthes message will keep up the great work.

It is a joy to be connected with like to have 100.

I got less

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