Dr. Brown Speaks with Jonathan Cahn About the Return of the Gods

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. I'm going to speak with Jonathan Cahn about his brand new book, Return of the Gods. It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on The Line of Fire. And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks for joining us, friends, on The Line of Fire. Michael Brown, delighted to be with you. I will not be taking calls today because I've got my guest, Jonathan Cahn, with us for the entire hour.

His new book just came out, The Return of the Gods, already a bestseller. And Jonathan will be doing wall-to-wall interviews, but he'll always contact me a few months before one of his books is about to come out to schedule a full hour for all of you right about the time of the book's release. So, as always, Jonathan, it is wonderful to have you with us. Thanks so much for joining us on The Line of Fire. Great to be with you, Mike, always.

It's always a joy. So, before we dig into the contents of this book, I just wanted to share something with you. I will sometimes listen to audible books of my own books when they come out just to kind of give me a different feel and refresh my mind. And I decided some months back for the first time to listen to The Harbinger on audio. At a certain point, I didn't want to listen because it was too disturbing to read and hear about judgment. And then I had the identical feeling a few months later listening to the book of Ezekiel. It was too disturbing, but I knew it was true. I knew the subject of judgment, divine judgment, was true. Jonathan, how did writing The Return of the Gods affect you as you were learning these things and seeing these things?

How did it affect you? Well, on one hand, there's a few different realms of it. On one hand, I'm blown away by it. Like, I'm the first one to be blown away by what comes. Something comes on my heart, and then it leads to this, this, and I see, whoa, this is real.

So the one part of it is, I'm amazed, really, I'm amazed by the Lord. And on the other hand, there's a chilling aspect of it. There's a scary aspect of it. And there was almost a reluctance, because I was saying, Lord, this is heavy, and I knew if this goes out, there's going to be also repercussions as well, there's going to be backlash, because it's hitting all these things. So I had a lot of big feelings about it.

And also, the other thing is that I was trying to do a book once a year, and that's kind of what I was doing, but I couldn't do this one. This one was, there was so much number one warfare about me doing it, and it was kind of like plowing through snow. There was just so much weight. So, I mean, I mix those in one hand, I'm, again, amazed, and wow, Lord, wow, my mind is blown. On the other hand, the implications are very big and heavy for our world in this hour.

Yeah, absolutely, and that's exactly what I would expect, Jonathan. All right, so, just to lay out the big picture, what is revealed in The Return of the Gods? You know, it is revealing a mystery behind literally, you know, virtually every transformation that's been taking place in the last 60 years in America, in the West, what is transforming our culture, our children, our school system, our government, our, you know, our worldview, the change, the dramatic change that we've been watching, and that could this go back, number one, to the Bible, which, of course, it does, ancient times, but also to the ancient tablets, inscriptions of Mesopotamia, Middle East, could this go back to the gods, and what are the gods? And, you know, of course, the gods, you know, there's this mythology, there's fiction, but could there be something real linked to the gods of the Bible, and the Bible actually says there is, and what if, you know, these things, there's a reality to them, could they, if they exist, could they be at work now, could they return, and if so, what would happen? And so this is, this could be behind everything, could it be behind Supreme Court decisions, could it be behind what's happening in children's cartoons, and could it affect everyone listening, every believer, every non-believer, and if so, you know, what does it mean, and what do we need to do about it? That is what The Return of the Gods is going to reveal.

You know, I was flying a few years ago, and saw two movies that were, had just come out, and they were both about the Greek gods, and they were now, you know, they were being worshipped, but they were interacting on the earth, and I thought, how curious is that? And then other things, when I wrote Jezebel's War with America, about the same demonic spirits that were operating 3,000 years ago, and Paul says in 1 Corinthians that the gods of the nations are demons. So when you speak about the mystery of the spirits, what is that?

Yeah, and it's right in line with that, Mike. Yeah, the Bible clearly says that, in the Hebrew Scriptures, in Deuteronomy, and in the Psalms, it says that what the nations or pagans are worshipping, or offering their children to, are the shedim. And shedim is a word speaking of entities, actually the Babylonians and the pagan cultures saw the shedim, or the shedoo to them, they saw them as, you know, they could be good spirits, bad spirits, in the Bible it's only malevolent spirits. When that word was translated into Greek by the rabbis or the scholars, they translated it into the word daimonia, which of course we get the word demonic, or demon, and then exactly as you said, Paul then says the same thing, but he uses the other word, he says that what they're worshipping, they're actually worshipping the daimonia, and we get, and that's demonic, or demon, and so one of the things is that, you know, the gods were all around, you know, in pagan culture, and what the Bible's saying is that there is a link to the spiritual world. You know, we would think that, we should think that anyway, of course if people are worshipping other things, there's a spiritual link, and it's not saying that the, you know, what they were saying, their mythologies were right, of course it's fantasy, but that there's a link between these things, and even, you know, the spirits could play on the mythology, and the mythology can follow certain aspects of the spirits, you know, the Bible says we were at war, there was a spiritual realm, and this is what they were doing without knowing it. Alright, so there would be the fantasies about this god has this power, that god has that power, but behind the fantasy was demonic activity, and that demonic activity certainly could affect individuals, we know about individuals being demonized, or demon possessed in scripture, but how far can demonic activity go?

Can it affect nations, civilizations? Yeah, yeah, you know, it's kind of a strange phenomenon that all around the world, you know, no matter what the culture was, they're all worshipping gods, I mean, it's kind of a strange thing, but it was all over, except pretty much for Israel, and then when Israel turned away from God, then it changed. But so, if behind the gods, in one form or another, you know, are spirits, or spiritual, or principalities, then what it means is, if a civilization or a culture is given to the gods, they're given to the spirits. And one of the things I found is that, when I was researching this, that the phenomenon of possession is all over, it's not just that the Bible speaks about it, virtually all these cultures in some way speak about it, and the closer you got to the gods, the more these things would manifest, you know, the oracle of Delphi, you know, the high priest, they would be shaking and convulsive and foaming, all the signs of possession, but they said they were possessed by the gods, they were possessed by the spirits, so it is not just the individuals, it was the entire culture was, in a sense, possessed. You know, when you look at the, you know, the signs of possession, and you look at pagan culture, you see it completely throughout, and so, yeah, there is a very important aspect of civilizational possession, or that spirits can affect entire cultures and nations. So, if we think, say, Romans 1, and people worship idols instead of the one true God, then God gives them over to idolatry, then into all kinds of foolishness, then sexual immorality, then sexual perversion and other sins, so they're not just being given over to the flesh, then, they're being given over to demonic powers, right? Absolutely, and when you look at much of pagan worship, you see a real parallel to what we know as demonic possession.

I mean, human sacrifice, you know, mutilations, the convulsions, self-destructiveness, you see that all, these are linked to possession. Right, so, at a certain point, the polytheism of much of the world, outside of the Hindu faith and things, but what you had in the ancient Greco-Roman world and the ancient Semitic world, a lot of that is displaced by monotheistic faiths, but where did the gods go, where did the spirits go? Yeah, well, you know, and the big change is Messiah, is Yeshua, is Jesus, because that is taking not only the faith of Israel, it's the new covenant, but the power is going forward to the world, he had the power to cast out spirits, and then he sent the disciples into the world, into the pagan world, and you have this clash, and with that, you know, it's really literally a war of spirits, you have the spirit of God versus the spirits of the world, and you have the word versus mythology, and that's why really the first believers were persecuted or thrown to the lions, because they would not worship the gods or offer incense, so it was really a battle of spirits, or quote, the gods, and so, you know, because of the gospel, and it was that really alone, the gods vanished, you know, the temples of Zeus, the shrines of Athena, they would be emptied out, and they ended, the gods ended, but if behind the gods are spirits or principalities, then spirits don't end, so, you know, they have to, they're existing, so the interesting thing, Michael, and this is where a key I speak about in a book called The House of Spirits, and that is that Messiah Jesus gave a parable, and he speaks about the spirit that comes out of a man, and he says that, you know, it goes into the dry places, looking for a place, and doesn't find it, says I'm going to go back to my house, goes back to the man, says finds the house clean, swept, and the implication is an empty, and goes, gets seven other spirits worse than itself, and repossesses the man, or repossesses the house, and then Messiah says that so the latter state will be worse than the first. Now we take that, and it's true, you know, if someone knows the Lord and then turns away, it's risking something much greater or darker, and with possession, as well as just turning away from the Lord. But what he says is, he says, so it will be with this generation.

It wasn't just speaking about one person. And so, therefore, now, if you take that to the biggest thing right now, Western civilization was once given to these spirits and gods. The gospel cleansed it.

It was, in a sense, the most, the greatest mass exorcism in history, and that's why Western civilization is so unique, because of that. But the warning is, if the West, if, or any culture that has been so cleansed, America or any, or, you know, the remainder of the Western civilization, if it ever turns away from God, if it ever turns back, then what it's saying is, the house is not going to remain empty. It will be repossessed. And the spirits that were driven out will come back to it.

In a sense, the gods, or the ancient entities, will come back to repossess it. And that is exactly what we have been witnessing. Alright, we're going to stop right there, and that verse that's just been shared with us from Matthew 12, very jarring. That's what's going to happen to that generation. Jesus warned that.

It's relevant today. We come back, we'll talk more about the return of the gods, tell you where you can get the book for yourself. Stay right here.

This is how we rise up. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, friends, to the Line of Fire broadcast, speaking to my good friend Jonathan Cahn about his brand new book, literally hot off the press, The Return of the Gods. Where's the best place for them to get the book, Jonathan? You can get The Return of the Gods everywhere. It's online. It's in every place. Amazon, if you go on right now, you'll see it.

Walmart, Barnes and Noble, it's really literally everywhere. Great, great. That's what I thought, but just wanted to ask the question. Alright. Oh, thank you. So if gods or spirits are returning to the modern world, meaning the demonic powers have been active in different ways, but now making a more public, overt return, maybe coming out of hiding more, filling the void that you mentioned has been here because we had the gospel so much, we've rejected it so much, it's going to get filled with something else, which gods are returning? Yeah, and you know, Michael, it's the fact that we've had the gospel, the fact that we've had the presence of God and the ways of God, that has been a protection, that has been kind of a wall in many ways to society. And that's, again, what's made us different.

When you go to mission trips, you see the difference, although that's changing now. So the thing is that America was patterned after ancient Israel and the Puritans were very much so. On top of that, Western civilization, the spiritual heart of it, once the gospel came, is basically Israel. And so if it turns back, what happened when Israel turned away from God? It turned to the gods and it turned to these things. Well, there were three key gods.

There were many different ones in the nation, but three that really epitomized what happened to Israel. And so in the book, in the Return of the Gods, I call it the Dark Trinity. And what I think here is that in the same way they have returned, and the first one I call in the book is, I call the Possessor, that's what his name means.

Of course, you know it. The name most people know him as is Baal or Baal. This spirit is that of, you know, in ancient Israel, this principality and this god was, in a sense, what caused Israel to forget God.

That's what the Bible says. Baal called to forget God. He was the anti-god. He's the chief of the Canaanite pantheon. He's the substitute god to God. He's the one who promised them, turn away, I'll give you freedom, I'll give you prosperity. And this is what the primary one they turned to. When you look at the list of gods, you see, Baal is almost always first.

Baal and then this. He's kind of like the spirit that comes back and then says, I want to bring the rest. And so the thing is that with what happens when you see a real turning in America, where it becomes, you know, becomes really noticeable, early 60s, we start removing God. We start taking God out of prayer out of school. We take the word out of school. And then it begins on and on.

We're opening the door. You know, in a sense, it was almost like an exorcism of God from the culture. And the thing is that the parable says that if the house is not going to remain empty, you do that, something else is coming in its place. And if you look at, you know, when people were removing prayer from school in the 60s, at the very beginning it probably could have seemed like a little thing, but look at what has now come into school. You know, this is the law of the spirit here. And so what happens is the spirit comes to America that is in power, really takes the mainstream, which is the spirit.

Baal drove God out of the culture of Israel, drove him out of the public square. So we've been watching this culture driving God out and out and out. It hasn't stopped.

It was noticeable then. It has happened. This is that spirit. It's the spirit of paganization. You know, we're talking about pagan spirits or pagan gods.

Well, if they're coming back now, they're coming to a Christian or a Judeo-Christian-based nation. So the mission is to take a Christian or Judeo-Christian nation and paganize it, turn it into a pagan nation. And when we've been looking at the mass transformation of America since then, it is that way every direction is pagan. It's a paganization. So that's one part of what, you know, the beginning of what Baal does, but it's actually very deep. It's affected our culture in the deepest ways. Are there any literal outward signs about this invasion of Baal and Baal coming to America? Yes, yes. You know, one thing actually, and this is something that, you know, we kind of take for granted.

We don't even think twice. But one of the key signs of Baal worship throughout the Middle East was the representation. He was represented by a molten ball, a bronze ball. This comes up again and again and again. And so interesting, and it's also linked to Baal, it's linked to prosperity, you know, the prosperity of the nation. Well, the prosperity of our nation is linked to Wall Street, you know. And when there's a prosperous market, we call it a bull market for other reasons. Nothing anybody's doing for that reason. But then, you know, what was erect, 1980s, they erect this massive molten bronze ball on Wall Street, or right off of Wall Street.

This is actually, you know, of course they're doing it because they're saying, well, this is about prosperity on Wall Street. This is the sign of Baal. You know, it's actually in the Bible.

You want to think about molten, golden caps, molten caps. Those are bull caps in the Hebrew. It's all linked to the same thing.

Not a good sign. Also, there was a time, I don't know if you caught it, you probably did, where they actually erected the arch that led to the Temple of Baal in New York City. I mean, you know, in New York City, they're doing it for them, and I'm not saying that they're doing this for any reason, that they have any idea, just like the harbinger, you know, why are they saying these scriptures, why are they doing these things? But they do it anyway.

And that arch also appeared in New York City, also appeared in Washington, overlooking the Capitol, just when they were having the hearings for the Supreme Court justice concerning abortion, you know. So, yes, and then there's the deeper ways. Like, for instance, in pagan culture, you know, you have many gods.

In biblical culture, of course, there's one god. But that means you have many truths. You know, not one truth, many truths. So everybody can now say, you know, well, that's true for you, it's relative, I have my own truth.

You know, we take that as that's something progressive and woke. That's pagan. You know, even the idea that you can, you know, in pagan culture, you create your own idol, you're creating your own god, you're creating your own truth. Well, you know, this is my authentic truth.

If a man says, I'm a carry or I'm a cat, well, that's his authentic truth. That is part of the relative, the subjectification of culture. That is a pagan thing. So it has affected us, even wokeism and all, you know, these things have affected us in the deepest of ways. It reminds me of what G.K. Chesterton said, that when people don't believe in God, it's not that they believe in nothing, but in everything. And the sociologist Rodney Stark has demonstrated in countries, Sweden, Iceland, these different countries that are supposed to be very irreligious and turning from traditional religion, they believe in all kinds of superstition and the most bizarre things. But what we're seeing it in a very dangerous and dark way here.

So you were saying, go ahead. It's like the, you know, it's never neutral, you know, spiritually and biblically, it's never neutral. And when you look at any culture that turns away from God, for instance, Russia, you know, what comes in is demonic.

You know, I'm talking about the Soviet Union. Look at Germany, what comes in is demonic. And the thing, it also says, the parable says it's going to be worse.

In the pagan world, you have Nero, but in the post-Christian world, you've got Hitler. So there's never going to be, the house is never going to remain empty. Yeah, that's it.

I read one author the other day who said that thrones always get filled quickly. And that's their spiritual reality. Friends, all this is in the new book just hot off the press, Return of the Gods, The Return of the Gods by Jonathan Cahn. All right, so you talk about the dark trinity, Baal, the possessor. Who's the enchantress? Yeah, this is a she, of course, and this is, in Canaanite theology, it's actually a wife or consort of Baal, but she is all over. You know, in the Bible, she's called Ash-Torah, or Ash-Torah, or At-Torah.

It just says Baal and Ash-Torah. But in the Phoenician world, she's a start. In the Mediterranean, or actually the Mesopotamian world, she's known very famously as Ishtar. Also, when she goes to Greece, becomes Aphrodite. When she gets to Rome, Venus.

But very dark. This is the goddess of sexuality. Particularly sexual immorality, unbridled sexual lust. She's actually called a prostitute, or a harlot goddess. And so when Israel fell, it wasn't just Baal, it was Ash-Torah. And so what happened is that it means that it's the sexualization of the culture. And when you look at the progression, first it says Baal, then it says Ash-Torah. Second, well, the first comes the turning, Baal, the turning away. And you have paganization, you have material, you know, worship, all these things. But then the next thing that's going to come, according to this template, is going to be the sexualization of American culture and Western culture. And a sexual revolution, and that's exactly what happens when she comes into the culture. And we've been dealing with it ever since.

Yeah, and the fruit of it is extraordinary and dramatic. There's a song that swept America last year or the year before that. And it was so sexually explicit and so dark.

You thought, how can you even comment on it because you can't read the lyrics, you can't watch the video, you can't hear it. And then you think, but little children across America are seeing it. It was just a snapshot to me of how far things have gone. And then the aggressive educational agenda that wants to sexualize little children and give out condoms in elementary schools. You think, how did this happen?

Yeah, it happened step by step by step. Back in the 60s, the big controversy is, could you even have a sex education? And now look at where it's gone. And the thing is that one of the things is, where did all this sexualization come from? Well, it comes from the marriage bed. It was taken out of the marriage bed. And this goddess, being a prostitute or a harlot, is against marriage. She's detrimental to marriage, even in her mythology. And so this is what happens.

Marriage starts getting weakened, family is weakened, divorce starts going almost like clockwork, as on the same time the culture gets sexualized. Yeah, friends, this is a decline. The return of the gods opens this up vividly.

It's one of these things. Oh my, oh my, there it is. We come back. Who is the destroyer?

We'll get the answer from Jonathan Cahn. The new book, Return of the Gods. Stay right here. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on The Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us on The Line of Fire. I'm speaking with my friend and colleague Jonathan Cahn, his hot-off-the-press book, The Return of the Gods. Jonathan, before we talk about the last of the three beings, demonic powers that you're referring to as the Dark Trinity, a little bit more about Astrid, Ishtar, the Enchantress. How does this connect with porn, with drugs, with witchcraft? Yeah, well, you know, her name, she was known as the prostitute goddess, and her name in ancient Greek for prostitute is Porne. We get the word porn from it. And so the very first pornography in the world was the writings of this link to this goddess. It was literally the earliest literature on that. And actually, the effect of this principality was also to reproduce images of naked people throughout the culture. Back then, they didn't have the web.

Of course, they had clay. But that's the same thing. And, you know, we use the word erotic, you know, which of course comes from Eros. Eros was a Greek god who was born of Aphrodite, who is Ishtar, the goddess. So she actually produces not only, it's not only linked to porn, but also the word Eros. And so if Baal is moving to the paganization of a Christian, or Judeo-Christian nation, Ishtar is doing that through the sexual realm. And if you look at one of the most powerful realms of really paganizing America has been the sexual realm.

All of it's moving in that area. Also, she's called the enchantress and a sorceress because she is also the goddess of spells and casting spells on people. And so at the same time that you have the sexual revolution in the 60s, you also have a revival of the occult.

You know, to the point, and even now, we have more witches in America than we have Presbyterians. So the revival of the new age, that's not an accident that these all come at the same time that we're turning away from God. And she's also the goddess of the tavern and the intoxicating substances. And you also, at the same time, you have an explosion of drugs.

We still have an explosion of drugs right now. All these things are linked to this goddess. Yeah, I remember reading some of those stats about the rise of witchcraft in recent years. And compared to Presbyterians and Millennial Presbyterians being outnumbered by witches.

It was just wild. But you see these things happening together. Those were some of the lights that went on for me writing Jezebel's War with America. What you're looking at is, okay, we're not just dealing with this, but this and this and this.

So the last in the Star Trinity, the Destroyer, who is that? Yeah, and by the way, you just triggered something in the image. And Jezebel was, in the history, in Elison, in, you know, as it's recorded, is supposed to have been the daughter of the priest of a start, which is this goddess.

Ashura, same thing. Yeah, the last one, one of the things that is actually not an exception in pagan culture. But it's actually the rule in many ways. But human sacrifice is actually very common in pagan culture. And child sacrifice is very common in pagan culture.

I mean, we're talking about whether it's, you know, to human sacrifice, the German lands, the Russian lands, the Polynesian lands, it was all over. And to be a child in pagan culture was dangerous. And this is the god or the principality that causes parents to offer up their own children as sacrifice.

Of course, we know him as Molech, which we believe is linked to the word king. And when Israel turned away from God, this is what they did. It says they caused their children to pass through the fire, they offered them up, which is what the pagan world was doing.

So following this pattern or template, first you have Baal representing the turning away from God in paganization. Secondly, you have the sexual revolution and all that's happened. Then you're going to have this. And so when you look at it, you know, you're the 60s, and then at the end of the 60s comes abortion to America and the West. Abortion on demand, 1970. Abortion, of course, legalized, 1973. You have the offering up of children. And by the way, it wasn't just infanticide, which you had.

Then you also had abortion. It was part of the pagan world. It was actually the gospel that ended infanticide. It was actually the gospel that ended human sacrifice across the world.

So if we're turning away from God, then this spirit or this god, this molech, is going to come to America. And that is exactly what's happened. And people say, well, how can you compare it? Well, yeah, they offered up thousands.

We have offered up millions. Yeah, and with it, just the larger denigrating of human life that comes out of it. It's clearly related. Now, Jonathan, in The Return of the Gods, because we're running through a whole lot in an hour, and it's eye-opening, it's shaking, it's intense. It reminds us that we have a spiritual battle. But you give a lot of data and information in the book. Yeah.

Well, first of all, I had to research the inscriptions from the ancient war, from the Battle on Mesopotamia, and then what is actually happening here, happening now. We're replaying that. Even, like we're talking about, you know, abortion. Even the way they, you know what, Mike, you also, I know you also did this, but even the ways they offer them up, there are parallels to what we are doing to this day.

So yes, yes. And it gets deeper. Because what happened is, at the beginning, when this thing begins, you know, when the gods, in a sense, the spirits start taking hold, it's all in the name of tolerance. But as it progresses, it gets deeper, and it's going to open up exactly with what we're dealing right now, even with gender.

Yeah, even when we talk about, the society says abortion is a right, spelled R-I-G-H-T, it really becomes a right, R-I-T-E. It becomes a religious right ritual, and the passion, intensity behind it exposes it. So, when you're talking about the Enchantress, the connection with sexual immorality and drugs, we saw that happen. Witchcraft, we saw it just sweep in in the 60s.

I remember living through it. Is there another side to this demonic activity? Yes, yes. And it's a side that comes out more in time, when there's a greater foothold that couldn't come out at the beginning. And that is that, when I looked at this, and I'm looking at the writings of this goddess, linked to this goddess in the description, she says, I am a woman, I am a man. Her hymns say she has the power to turn a man into a woman, and a woman into a man.

This is the goddess, or the principality, that blurs gender, that blurs sexuality, that bends the line between man and woman. And so, big time. And so, what if we were going to see this at work in America and the West, what we're going to see in time is going to be not just a sexual revolution, but it's going to turn another side. We're going to start seeing the blending of gender, the feminizing of men, the masculizing of women.

And we have been seeing this. I mean, it's not only in the sexual realm, it's been in every realm. I mean, if a man acts masculine, we'll say that's toxic. If a woman acts masculine, we'll say, well, that's wonderful.

What is that? It is a spirit that is seeking to basically really end the distinction between the two. One of the things I found when I was looking up the inscriptions linked to the goddess, is that she grinds away the masculinity of men.

She hands weapons to women. And so, it's to seek to do that, and that's been happening, you know, that part has been happening since the 60s. I mean, in society, actually, even the spirit of radical feminism is linked. She raged against the authority of men.

She had a problem with that. You know, so in every way you see this, even the re-channeling of, you know, girls from, they're being programmed in this. And so, our boys are being programmed against being, you know, providing against, you know, all these things are being channeled into video games, and it's a pornography. And so, it's all part of that, but it actually affects, the sexual realm has become the most dramatic. You know, I wrote an article a couple months back for The Daily Wire on sociological contagion and the transgender revolution.

Yes. And it was talking about how things sweep through our society, kind of like society corporately loses its mind. So, we've got genital mutilation of young people now, and hormone blockers that are going to destroy their lives and sterilize them, and people shouting for it.

This needs to happen, and on and on. And you think, how does a madness happen? Well, I know part of it can be explained sociologically, but I'm quite sure that behind all this is demonic spirits driving it. You're saying it's not a surprise that this is something we should have expected in terms of the progression. Yes, that's exactly how I would say it.

And not that we did, but that we should have, because this is where it goes, this is where it has to go. And starting with when you take God out, you know, we feel like, what possesses an adult to do this to a child? Well, this is what possesses them. It is a spirit.

Even, Michael, even liberals, you know, old school liberals, as you know, are saying this is demonic. And the thing is, the goddess had a priesthood, and the priesthood of the goddess, it all goes back to this, that were men dressed up as women. And they dressed as women, they spoke as women, and they even had sexual relations as women. So, if she returns, or the effect of this spirit, it's going to be that of androgyny. And so, cross-dressing, it says, literally, her hymns say, she dresses a man as a woman, she dresses a woman as a man. So, you know, we have drag queens now, we have, well, that goes back to her priesthood. And it's, you know, it's gone from Western society because of the gospel.

Well, the fact that it's coming back into the mainstream is a sign of this spirit coming back. And the other thing is, the fact that it's going after children, one of the things I've noticed as I'm doing this, is that, you know, they always, these principalities always go after the children, because you get the children, you have the future. And children are the most easily malleable, bendable. And one of the things that happened is, her priesthood wasn't just men dressing as women, they were also men who were transitioned as women, surgically, and which affected their hormones. In fact, when I looked at what was there in the ancient writings, it actually says that these changed men would dance before her holding scalpels, which they believed was linked to the fact of transition. She's the goddess who transitions. And so now, you know, back then it was her priesthood.

But, you know, Jesus said when they come back it's going to be worse. Well, now it's not, she's not just after a priesthood, she's after an entire generation. You know, you know what's fascinating as we talk? It was in 2004 that God called me to begin to really focus on gay and lesbian activism, the transgender part was not as prominent then. But I saw right then when I had compassion for the people and love for those involved and a great burden for them I never had before, that the agenda was the principal threat to freedom of religion, speech, and conscience in America, and that it was going to target children and so on. So everything that I've watched unfold in these last 18 years, right now all we're doing is plugging in spiritual realities behind each and every development. And as you're talking and giving these specifics, I'm thinking of what I've witnessed and documented and seen and even where the agenda was going.

According to those within it, what they didn't understand was it was a dark agenda, not a liberating agenda. And what we have to remember is that people worship these beings, these deities, thinking it was for their good, but instead they put themselves under bondage. Yeah, yeah, the people, you know, we have to pray, we're all in the same boat in one sense or another. Yeah, we have to pray for that, and you've been very clear about that and very strong about that. And there's even, we'll keep going.

Yeah, we'll go on the other side of the break. Jonathan Cahn, The Return of the Gods, I don't know about you, but this is deeply stirring. Recognizing the spiritual war. This is deeply stirring.

We'll be right back. Well, this always happens when I interview my friend Jonathan. We don't get through the list of questions, and the list of questions just gives you kind of like a little drink of a cup out of an ocean of content. So for everything here to dig in deeper, get the book Return of the Gods, you can get it anywhere books are sold, basically.

It is available in multiple platforms, multiple forums. Jonathan, I want to give some hope, some encouragement as well, because this is very jarring and very intense. And it's the world that we live in. When we sit down privately and talk, these are the things that we talk about. But I want to focus on one or two specifics and then get to a broader picture. Where is this going?

Is there hope? So what happened that in your view kind of exploded on the streets of New York City and has affected the world? How does this tie in with some of these ancient truths and mysteries that you're revealing? The whole movement, as you know, Mike, the whole movement of Pride of Altered Sexuality began, or exploded, in Stonewall.

The Stonewall riots in New York City. I won't go into detail because there's just not time, but the amazing thing I saw is it was filled, I mean saturated, with the signs of this deity or this spirit. Example, this Ishtar, the goddess, was linked always to what was called the Eshtam.

That means a tavern or an alehouse or a bar. That was Stonewall. But when she went to war, it was linked to the lion's head. I won't go into it, but that night was linked to a lion's head. There was a woman who actually stirred up the whole event.

Everything we're dealing with has come from there. The goddess was called the storm. She was called the loud thundering storm.

The woman's name was Storm, or Storm A. There's something called the dance of the goddess. When the goddess goes to war, they literally was a dance that broke out that night among all the rioters. What they said, they chant, they sang words that went back to the writings of the goddess. It even says to the goddess, you're the stone that breaks the Stonewall. They were trying to do it. Even the timing of that was linked to the ancient pagan calendar.

So that's just in a very, very quick nutshell. Yeah, and so much did explode out of that Stonewall, and how remarkable that in President Obama's second inaugural speech that he hailed Stonewall. He hailed Seneca for women's rights, Stonewall for gay rights, Selma for civil rights. These were now, instead of Stonewall being a riot that broke out that led to all kinds of lawlessness and really put an emphasis on sexual revolution. This is now something being celebrated.

All right, so in your view, again, we're just scratching the surface here, but in your view, where are things going, and is there hope? Yeah, well, let me just mention, and then absolutely, that from Stonewall, you know, it became the parades, you know, the whole parades of Jews. Well, the parades are linked to the goddess. He was the goddess of parades, and the parades of the goddess had men parading as women and women parading as men. Even the time of the goddess, there was one time when this happened, and the ancient commentators record that it was, there was one month of the year where she particularly possessed the culture.

It was Tamos, but they actually identified it in the ancient writings as Junium or June. Even, I won't go into it, but even the rainbow is linked to the goddess. It's a sign of that, and I'll say just one quick thing, and that is that even the Supreme Court decision since then, 2003, 2013, and then marriage being redefined in 2015, they all took place in the days of the goddess actually on the same date. And if you remember, when marriage was struck down, as we know it, and all over America, there were rainbows on the White House, rainbows on the White House. That night was the 10th of Tamos, which is on the ancient calendar of Babylon.

It says that's the day appointed to cast a spell to cause a man to love a man. So the point is, we are in a war, we're in a war here, not against people, but against principalities, and it's a real war, it's a real thing. The last part of the book, I speak about that war and where this is heading, and where it's heading is that the gods are never content with just tolerance. Ultimately, it's every knee shall bow.

And they also have a vendetta regarding Christians, or the word, because that's what drove them out. So we have to be strong. To me, we're still in exciting times. It goes all with the end times.

This is where it's all going. And we have to be strong. You know, when you look back at the Bible, Elijah dealt with the gods, Moses dealt with the gods of Egypt, the Maccabees dealt with the gods of Greece, Paul dealt with the gods of Rome. So this is not a strange thing in that sense, but we have to be strong, and we have to stand, and we have to not bow our knee. And we have to, it is the power of God, you know, the last part of the book is the hope.

The other god, he is greater than the gods, who is like, you know, Mika Mocha, who is like you among the gods. The power of the god is so much stronger, but we have to rise it and we can't be intimidated, we cannot bow down to the god. Yeah, so if someone said, all right, listen, we all know that we're in spiritual warfare, what will I get by reading this book that will take me deeper? It's a question people ask us, and what we know involved in spiritual warfare, why do I need to understand this?

What's so important about grasping this? Yeah, because it's not just something you'll hear about in a seminar of spiritual warfare, which is very important, but it's affecting, it's seeing how it's affecting everything in the culture. How it affects that, how it's affecting your children, how, you know, where this is coming in, where it's coming from, this is not some general thing, this is an exact, precise thing, and this is what was dealt with in the Bible.

And so, one, also, I'm hoping people don't get, they not only get the return of the gods for themselves, but they get it for people in their lives, even people who are not saved, and who are part of this. Because everybody is affected by it, everybody has somebody in their life that is very affected by it, and to take charge over it, and take power over it, and if you know what you're dealing with, you know, you can fight effectively by the power of God. Does this also remind us that our greatest battle is not political? Yeah, yeah, and of course it affects everything politically, of course, you know, but we can never make that our main thing, it never was, you know, but it is, as Paul said, we were not against the flesh and blood, we were against principalities. As believers, you know, this is the time that we can be the strongest, you know, we can become radical, I mean, radical in love, radical in boldness, radical in purity, that's what's going to do it. You know, it was the power of Messiah that cast these things out, it's the power of Messiah that way too, but also in our own lives, because if we are part of these things, whether it's pornography, whether it's whatever, it is, then how are we going to fight against it? So it's a call for repentance among the body, we have to separate, just like Gideon had to cast down that idol, we have to do that in order that we can fight, like the people that spiritually, for God, and God is still on the throne. It's just, it is again, you know, Michael, Mike, I think, you know, who is like you, oh Lord, among the gods, but we have to stand in that power, we have to be strong.